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(Gizmodo)   Gizmodo's list of the "15 Most Overpriced Gadgets of All Time" manages to only include 3 from Apple   (gizmodo.com) divider line 272
    More: Interesting, BlackBerry PlayBook, home computers, graphical user interfaces, flash memory, netbooks, Google Talk, SSD, debris disk  
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15220 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Dec 2012 at 12:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-05 09:30:42 AM
BlackBerry PlayBook ($499)

You buy the PlayBook if you want a bigger computer that gets along with your BlackBerry smartphone.
 
2012-12-05 10:12:28 AM
List is useless without the Neo Geo... $250 per game - oh yeah!
 
2012-12-05 10:38:06 AM
10 grand for a PC? What do you even do with a PC where there's no internet? Write a paper? Get a typewriter.
 
2012-12-05 10:56:46 AM

Mugato: 10 grand for a PC? What do you even do with a PC where there's no internet? Write a paper? Get a typewriter.


Oregon Trail is worth the $10,000 grandpa.
 
2012-12-05 11:04:06 AM
Every mac ever has been overpriced, especially lately. Way back when, you could actually somewhat justify the price since they built their own hardware in house. Now, they're exactly the same thing as a Windows computer with a shiny aluminum case, their own proprietary OS, and a $500 markup.
 
2012-12-05 11:54:59 AM

Mugato: 10 grand for a PC? What do you even do with a PC where there's no internet? Write a paper? Get a typewriter.


it was targeted at businesses. and it was an abject failure. it's the edsel of computers.
 
2012-12-05 11:58:38 AM
And of the three that are on the list, they didn't mention the iPad Mini? It has the RAM, processor, and screen resolution of something two generations old, but manages to cost 1.65x the amount of a better Android tablet.


/Only hating on the iPad Mini, no issues with the full sized iPad
 
2012-12-05 12:04:01 PM
Where are Word Processors? They were huge in the mid- late-80s. "Hey, I know--let's make a computer than only does word processing, using proprietary computer disks & proprietary ribbon cartridges for the printer! And we'll charge only a couple hundred dollars less than an actual computer!"

/Yes, ribbon cartridges. Like a typewriter
 
2012-12-05 12:10:08 PM

ZAZ: BlackBerry PlayBook ($499)

You buy the PlayBook if you want a bigger computer that gets along with your to pay entirely too much for a mediocre 7" tablet with no app ecosystem to speak of and no e-mail support unless you own a BlackBerry smartphone.


FTFY.
 
2012-12-05 12:11:40 PM
Did they forget about any kind of cable ever made?
 
2012-12-05 12:13:38 PM
What, no Neo-geo or 3DO? Both were interesting systems killed by insane prices on the console and games. I'd say the ps3 ranks up there, at launch anyways, but those two are still king.
 
2012-12-05 12:18:00 PM
As someone reading this from a Wifi Only Xoom purchased at launch price I'm getting a k... OK, I can't hide my shame... kill me. Please.
 
2012-12-05 12:19:17 PM

brigid_fitch: Where are Word Processors? They were huge in the mid- late-80s. "Hey, I know--let's make a computer than only does word processing, using proprietary computer disks & proprietary ribbon cartridges for the printer! And we'll charge only a couple hundred dollars less than an actual computer!"

/Yes, ribbon cartridges. Like a typewriter


What's a ribbon cart...Oh I see.
What's a typewriter?
 
2012-12-05 12:22:44 PM
Wow. Even I'm getting tired of this old trollbait chestnut.
 
2012-12-05 12:27:32 PM
ypur mom's stinky clam hole should be on there...
 
2012-12-05 12:27:43 PM

Elzar: List is useless without the Neo Geo... $250 per game - oh yeah!


The Neo Geo wasn't overpriced, really. It was expensive because it was VERY advanced technology. For 1990, anyway.

And the games were $250 each because they had ENORMOUS amounts of storage. Again, for the time.

Remember, the Neo Geo gave you 100% arcade quality.

The 3DO, on the other hand....yeah. They blew it with that thing.
 
2012-12-05 12:30:16 PM

Antimatter: What, no Neo-geo or 3DO? Both were interesting systems killed by insane prices on the console and games. I'd say the ps3 ranks up there, at launch anyways, but those two are still king.


At least they were honest about being game consoles
 
2012-12-05 12:34:03 PM
A few of those a truly mind boggling. The DIVX thing, the umi, etc.

Some of them I'm surprised by. I thought people figured tablets weren't overpriced. I felt like the only one somtimes that just shakes my head at someone charging almost a thousand dollars for a not-computer with limited functionality.

Also, I now know that Microsoft is not serious about the tablet market. Charging $119 for their cover thing when it only costs $16 to manufacture? Moronic.
 
2012-12-05 12:44:56 PM
i48.tinypic.com

$300 and it did... well not much of anything.
You could stream media from your Nexus device if you had JellyBean.
Oh, and you could only stream media purchased from the Google Store.
 
2012-12-05 12:47:02 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i48.tinypic.com image 705x344]

$300 and it did... well not much of anything.
You could stream media from your Nexus device if you had JellyBean.
Oh, and you could only stream media purchased from the Google Store.


That was freaking ludicrous. I mean, if they put Google TV on there, and had the extra features as a value-add, you could almost justify it... but as it was, it didn't do much of anything.
 
2012-12-05 12:47:17 PM
You guys ever get tired of ragging on Apple around here? Or is the hate towards Apple products a Pavlovian response at this point?
/yeah yeah, Welcome to Fark
 
2012-12-05 12:49:16 PM
maxcdn.fooyoh.com
 
2012-12-05 12:49:33 PM

DubyaHater: You guys ever get tired of ragging on Apple around here? Or is the hate towards Apple products a Pavlovian response at this point?
/yeah yeah, Welcome to Fark


I know, right? I mean, nothing but hate directed to the Apple Playbook, the Apple 3D0, the Apple DIVX, and the Apple Nexus Q. Stop hating Apple, haters.
 
2012-12-05 12:52:43 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

/am I doing this right?
/not sure
 
2012-12-05 12:53:24 PM

Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]


Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.
 
2012-12-05 12:53:27 PM
Motorola Xoom ($1,079 Over Two Years)

That price fell hard. I got mine later that year for much less than $800. (WiFI only, though).

I was real excited to get my hands on one after that Super Bowl commercial, then I saw the price. What the hell, Motorola?
 
2012-12-05 12:53:28 PM

realmolo: Elzar: List is useless without the Neo Geo... $250 per game - oh yeah!

The Neo Geo wasn't overpriced, really. It was expensive because it was VERY advanced technology. For 1990, anyway.

And the games were $250 each because they had ENORMOUS amounts of storage. Again, for the time.

Remember, the Neo Geo gave you 100% arcade quality.

The 3DO, on the other hand....yeah. They blew it with that thing.


A poor excuse though. $250 a game for arcade boards just wasn't realistic to ask of your average consumer, who could get games that were close to being as good for $70 on a snes or genesis.

It basically killed any chance for any mainstream neo-geo adoption. But your right, at least it was for a reason.
 
2012-12-05 01:01:09 PM

brigid_fitch: Where are Word Processors? They were huge in the mid- late-80s. "Hey, I know--let's make a computer than only does word processing, using proprietary computer disks & proprietary ribbon cartridges for the printer! And we'll charge only a couple hundred dollars less than an actual computer!"

/Yes, ribbon cartridges. Like a typewriter


Hey now, I had one of these from Brother that got me through high school in 1989-93:

i.ebayimg.com 

I think it cost about $200-300 at the time, but for my parents it was a hell of a lot cheaper than getting me a PC to use for my papers and college applications:

neonpulse.net

Maybe it was better if you lived near a Fry's, but I don't remember seeing any PCs in my neck of the woods that were even vaguely affordable back then, especially once you added on a printer that was good enough quality to replace a typewriter.

Plus, you could always get the nylon ribbon that lasted longer than the cartridges. You couldn't do any corrections, granted, but you don't need to if you type out your whole paper in advance on the 5 line LCD display. Which was a pain in retrospect, but it sure as hell beat banging it out on a manual typewriter. Sure, they weren't prefect, but in the late 80s/early 90s, a lot of families couldn't afford to spend the cost of a decent used car for a computer that would be hopelessly outdated in three years.
 
2012-12-05 01:01:11 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.


and it can play anything on your mac with airplay.
 
2012-12-05 01:01:11 PM
accessory that will set you back an extra $119, even though it costs Microsoft only $16 to manufacture
thumbs.anyclip.com
Ah... It's a profit deal. Takes the pressure off.
 
2012-12-05 01:01:14 PM

HeartBurnKid: ZAZ: BlackBerry PlayBook ($499)

You buy the PlayBook if you want a bigger computer that gets along with your to pay entirely too much for a mediocre 7" tablet with no app ecosystem to speak of and no e-mail support unless you own a BlackBerry smartphone.

FTFY.


wut? email is built in, no tethering required. app selection sucks, os takes way to long to spool up, but it has silverlight support. for $150 you get email etc, a good browser and the ability to view nfl season pass when on the road.
 
2012-12-05 01:01:18 PM
Overpriced Mac?

www.248am.com
$7500 iMac.
 
2012-12-05 01:01:25 PM

realmolo: Elzar: List is useless without the Neo Geo... $250 per game - oh yeah!

The Neo Geo wasn't overpriced, really. It was expensive because it was VERY advanced technology. For 1990, anyway.

And the games were $250 each because they had ENORMOUS amounts of storage. Again, for the time.

Remember, the Neo Geo gave you 100% arcade quality.

The 3DO, on the other hand....yeah. They blew it with that thing.


Well, the 3DO was also very advanced technology for the time. Plus they couldn't do the whole "sell the console close to cost, make profit on games and licensing" bit because the whole idea was that it was an open standard.
 
2012-12-05 01:02:33 PM

Bareefer Obonghit: As someone reading this from a Wifi Only Xoom purchased at launch price I'm getting a k... OK, I can't hide my shame... kill me. Please.


but you have jelly bean. there's that. plus one of the only "newer" tablets to support true a/b/g/n
 
2012-12-05 01:05:28 PM
Entry one had so many factual errors I just closed the tab. I don't suppose they mentioned the iPhone. $650 for a micro iPad with a $5 phone attached seems nuts to me.
 
2012-12-05 01:07:11 PM

Mad_Radhu: Hey now, I had one of these from Brother that got me through high school in 1989-93:


I actually learned how to type on that model sometime around 1990, iirc. I dont remember it being able to keep multiple lines in mememory... I could have swarn it would only hold one line, so you would type up to the end of a line, you made sure there were no glaring errors and then proceeded to the dump at the end of the line and the typewriter would just bang away.
 
2012-12-05 01:07:48 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.


It's pretty good if you are invested in the entire Mac ecosystem, and have devices where you can take advantage of Airplay and Airplay mirroring. For anyone else looking for a set top box for streaming media, you are probably better off with either a cheaper Roku or going full out and buying an Xbox 360 or PS3, which can not only handle media streaming but can also handle gaming and even Blu-Rays in the case of then PS3. For me personally, I prefer to spend a little more for something like the PS3, which can handle just about all of my media in one box with gaming as a bonus cherry on top.
 
2012-12-05 01:09:11 PM

DubyaHater: You guys ever get tired of ragging on Apple around here? Or is the hate towards Apple products a Pavlovian response at this point?
/yeah yeah, Welcome to Fark


What can we say, everyone loves hates a winner company that hasn't marketed an original product in their entire existence, yet still manage to get lauded as innovators.

Apple is the Andrew Lloyd Webber of the computer and consumer electronics industries.
 
2012-12-05 01:12:25 PM
Discs for Zip Drive should be on the list.
 
2012-12-05 01:12:50 PM
What is the today's money conversion on what a NeoGeo cost? What was the console, like $799? Sony doesn't even have the nerve to put that kind of price on a console in today's figures.
 
2012-12-05 01:14:16 PM
It's not about hating Apple. It's about having to listen to Apple fanboys drone on and on about everything else....
 
2012-12-05 01:16:28 PM
PCJr?

toastytech.com

I have a great "The one that got away" story about the OQO. I found a tech website that had mispriced the OQO for $189.90, a simple matter of a typo in a spreadsheet somewhere. But I guess they had a flood of orders that weekend and a human intercepted all the orders and erased them from the system.
 
2012-12-05 01:17:36 PM

wildcardjack: PCJr?

[toastytech.com image 765x533]

I have a great "The one that got away" story about the OQO. I found a tech website that had mispriced the OQO for $189.90, a simple matter of a typo in a spreadsheet somewhere. But I guess they had a flood of orders that weekend and a human intercepted all the orders and erased them from the system.


Bananamanager?
 
2012-12-05 01:18:07 PM

Antimatter: What, no Neo-geo or 3DO? Both were interesting systems killed by insane prices on the console and games. I'd say the ps3 ranks up there, at launch anyways, but those two are still king.


The 3DO was an abortion.

The Neo-Geo Arcade Entertainment System (Multi-Video System is the arcade cabinet) was genuinely successful. The hardware was a direct clone, even down to the serial numbers. It wasn't a "console" by even the stretchiest of words. It was an arcade machine that you could jack into RCA outlets.

It also invented the Memory Card. Every MVS up to 1994 has two slots where you can slide your AES save games into the system itself, plug in a quarter and play where you left off. Nascent save-state speedrunning. Say that three times fast...

The main selling factor to it was that it didn't run cartridges, per se, it ran FULL ARCADE BOARDS. Justification for the $109.99 (Ninja Combat, Magician Lord, Baseball Stars: Professional, 'Nam 1975) to a WHOPPING $799.95 (Fatal Fury 1, Thunder Force, Last Resort) price tags on the games was because it used onboard RAM to power them, not system-side. Considering it launched in 1989 (only as a mail-order system from SNK-USA) and eventually went wide in 1991, it may seem that it was meant and built for an exclusive group.

It was.

The main point SNK used in selling the AES was to get arcade operators to show off future games to interested customers AHEAD of when they'd be available, thereby driving up revenue. Even though the games were the exact same, it was SNK's choice to sell a set number of "shells" before production of the arcade boards to see what opinion would be of them... it really didn't matter, though, 95% of all Japanese games were ported to America.

Another thing that the AES had going for it was that the RAREST games (something like the "Top 25") available in North America are all AES/MVS titles. Last Blade 2 will set you back anywhere from $1,500 bare board to $10,000 for a Mint-In-Box. Collectors will sell their first-born children for a copy.

Although it isn't said much, there are a good number of titles designed exclusively for the system, and not meant as arcade titles; Samurai Shodown RPG can be had for a relatively cheap $300 in box, Garou: Mark of The Wolves (Fatal Fury 4) was ported from the console to the arcade - the only game in SNK's catalog that holds that distinction. Rumors abound of there being a Magician Lord 2 game finished and floating among the ether that was designed as AES-exclusive in 1998.

All told, it ran from 1989 to 2005, and the final game released for it is SNK Vs. Capcom: SVC CHAOS which sold over 5,000 units for a home system that hadn't been made in almost a decade.

It did, however, cost a steep $599.99. Still a bargain next to the memory-maxed-out Metal Slug 4 - it retailed for a jaw-dropping $1,999.99 in 2000.

These things taken into consideration, however, the AES holds a very vaunted position:

The Longest-Living Console In History - 16 Years.
 
2012-12-05 01:18:45 PM

ck1938: Entry one had so many factual errors I just closed the tab. I don't suppose they mentioned the iPhone. $650 for a micro iPad with a $5 phone attached seems nuts to me.


What was not factual about the entry for the Microsoft surface?

Base price $499; $119 for the cover

According to reviews, it does have less battery life than the iPad, and a worse display, and the Windows app store is anemic compared to the competition.

So...what was incorrect?
 
2012-12-05 01:19:07 PM

Mad_Radhu: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.

It's pretty good if you are invested in the entire Mac ecosystem, and have devices where you can take advantage of Airplay and Airplay mirroring. For anyone else looking for a set top box for streaming media, you are probably better off with either a cheaper Roku or going full out and buying an Xbox 360 or PS3, which can not only handle media streaming but can also handle gaming and even Blu-Rays in the case of then PS3. For me personally, I prefer to spend a little more for something like the PS3, which can handle just about all of my media in one box with gaming as a bonus cherry on top.


The Roku can play games. There is the horible looking bejeweled clone and the almost unplayable soduku game and angry birds if you are willing to shell out something line $50 for a motion remote.
 
2012-12-05 01:24:36 PM

Saiga410: Mad_Radhu: Hey now, I had one of these from Brother that got me through high school in 1989-93:

I actually learned how to type on that model sometime around 1990, iirc. I dont remember it being able to keep multiple lines in mememory... I could have swarn it would only hold one line, so you would type up to the end of a line, you made sure there were no glaring errors and then proceeded to the dump at the end of the line and the typewriter would just bang away.


There were basic models that only did a few lines at a time, but mine was the deluxe model that had a floppy drive for storing entire documents. I'd write up my papers, then hit the print button and let it autotype out the papers, feeding it new pages of paper when necessary.
 
2012-12-05 01:26:02 PM

Treygreen13: wildcardjack: PCJr?

[toastytech.com image 765x533]

I have a great "The one that got away" story about the OQO. I found a tech website that had mispriced the OQO for $189.90, a simple matter of a typo in a spreadsheet somewhere. But I guess they had a flood of orders that weekend and a human intercepted all the orders and erased them from the system.

Bananamanager?


It did come with 256k of Bananarama
 
2012-12-05 01:29:49 PM

Saiga410: Mad_Radhu: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.

It's pretty good if you are invested in the entire Mac ecosystem, and have devices where you can take advantage of Airplay and Airplay mirroring. For anyone else looking for a set top box for streaming media, you are probably better off with either a cheaper Roku or going full out and buying an Xbox 360 or PS3, which can not only handle media streaming but can also handle gaming and even Blu-Rays in the case of then PS3. For me personally, I prefer to spend a little more for something like the PS3, which can handle just about all of my media in one box with gaming as a bonus cherry on top.

The Roku can play games. There is the horible looking bejeweled clone and the almost unplayable soduku game and angry birds if you are willing to shell out something line $50 for a motion remote.


You can get a Roku 2 XS with the motion remote today for $50.

Half the price of AppleTV and you're not locked into their BS.
 
2012-12-05 01:31:00 PM

Mad_Radhu: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.

It's pretty good if you are invested in the entire Mac ecosystem, and have devices where you can take advantage of Airplay and Airplay mirroring. For anyone else looking for a set top box for streaming media, you are probably better off with either a cheaper Roku or going full out and buying an Xbox 360 or PS3, which can not only handle media streaming but can also handle gaming and even Blu-Rays in the case of then PS3. For me personally, I prefer to spend a little more for something like the PS3, which can handle just about all of my media in one box with gaming as a bonus cherry on top.


I think anyone with a bit of technical know how is better off with a Pi box than a XBOX/PS3. Can play any 1080p file you throw at it for under $70 and you can add a few TB of HD space and keep it under $150.
 
2012-12-05 01:31:38 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.


I also use mine to stream movies and such from my video library on my file server to my TV. I've never rented a movie from iTunes.
 
2012-12-05 01:33:17 PM

Saiga410: Mad_Radhu: Hey now, I had one of these from Brother that got me through high school in 1989-93:

I actually learned how to type on that model sometime around 1990, iirc. I dont remember it being able to keep multiple lines in mememory... I could have swarn it would only hold one line, so you would type up to the end of a line, you made sure there were no glaring errors and then proceeded to the dump at the end of the line and the typewriter would just bang away.


If you got the upgrade (memory cartridge or something, if I recall correctly) it would do like a page at a time or something. I had the one that was like yours, but my friend had one that would do the whole page.
 
2012-12-05 01:34:53 PM

Mad_Radhu: Maybe it was better if you lived near a Fry's, but I don't remember seeing any PCs in my neck of the woods that were even vaguely affordable back then, especially once you added on a printer that was good enough quality to replace a typewriter.


In 1989 I picked up a used Kaypro daisywheel printer for $50.00. That slow, loud, shambling SOB got my wife through college. (It was so loud we couldn't start print jobs after 9:30 PM in our apartment building.)
 
2012-12-05 01:39:11 PM

DubyaHater: You guys ever get tired of ragging on Apple around here? Or is the hate towards Apple products a Pavlovian response at this point?
/yeah yeah, Welcome to Fark


I don't hate their products.

I hate their unethical business practices, their inexorably greedy and paranoiac ex-CEO, their modular upgrade concepts designed for the sole purpose of screwing the consumer, their Russian Communist DRM and their blatant and repetitive patent trolling.

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this regard...
 
2012-12-05 01:39:28 PM

Mad_Radhu: Hey now, I had one of these from Brother that got me through high school in 1989-93:


We're the same age. I used a Brother very similar to the one you posted to get through college, too. Yeah, we had a computer lab but it was always a pain in the ass, and with all the chatter you couldn't hear yourself think while trying to write a term paper. Since PCs in those days were the price of a decent used car, I just went the word processor route.

Got along just fine. Even had a floppy drive for the times I did use the computer lab. I wish I had held onto it just as a reminder of how far we've come, but like most things in life it got ditched in a move. It would probably still work.

The amusing thing is that I'm typing this on an i7/8GB RAM/64GBSSD + 640GB storage HDD laptop. Not to mention high-speed internet and the research material it provides. Man, if I had these things in college I could have spent waaaaaay more time drinking. Kids are criminally unaware of how relatively easy they have it. Hell, I had to stand in interminably long lines just to sign up for a class. Now it's done in a click.

Dicks. :)
 
2012-12-05 01:41:05 PM

Jedekai: DubyaHater: You guys ever get tired of ragging on Apple around here? Or is the hate towards Apple products a Pavlovian response at this point?
/yeah yeah, Welcome to Fark

I don't hate their products.

I hate their unethical business practices, their inexorably greedy and paranoiac ex-CEO, their modular upgrade concepts designed for the sole purpose of screwing the consumer, their Russian Communist DRM and their blatant and repetitive patent trolling.

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this regard...


Some people hate that you single out only them when they are not alone in this at all.

/"yes but they're the WORST at it and furthermore..." no, no.
 
2012-12-05 01:42:31 PM

Saiga410: Treygreen13: wildcardjack: PCJr?

[toastytech.com image 765x533]

I have a great "The one that got away" story about the OQO. I found a tech website that had mispriced the OQO for $189.90, a simple matter of a typo in a spreadsheet somewhere. But I guess they had a flood of orders that weekend and a human intercepted all the orders and erased them from the system.

Bananamanager?

It did come with 256k of Bananarama


Gene Simmons didn't have a computer...
 
2012-12-05 01:44:38 PM

Gig103: And of the three that are on the list, they didn't mention the iPad Mini? It has the RAM, processor, and screen resolution of something two generations old, but manages to cost 1.65x the amount of a better Android tablet.


/Only hating on the iPad Mini, no issues with the full sized iPad


i'd agree as an ipad 4 user, but i get the feeling gizmodo's list is about overpriced AND unsuccessful, by all accounts the ipad mini is overpriced but people are buying it anyways, so therefore i guess it isn't overpriced?
 
2012-12-05 01:52:32 PM

AdamK: by all accounts the ipad mini is overpriced but people are buying it anyways, so therefore i guess it isn't overpriced?


"Overpriced" is invariably in the eyes of the buyer. IMO, It's overpriced, so I haven't bought one. Many others apparently disagree as they plunk down cash.

Apple is great at pricing things right at the pain point- where people think it's a lot of money for a widget like that, but not so much that it drives them away.
 
2012-12-05 01:54:34 PM

Jedekai: DubyaHater: You guys ever get tired of ragging on Apple around here? Or is the hate towards Apple products a Pavlovian response at this point?
/yeah yeah, Welcome to Fark

I don't hate their products.

I hate their unethical business practices, their inexorably greedy and paranoiac ex-CEO, their modular upgrade concepts designed for the sole purpose of screwing the consumer, their Russian Communist DRM and their blatant and repetitive patent trolling.

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this regard...


You just described a whole lot of companies there.

I hate their unethical business practices
Check out other tech companies (I'm looking at you Samsung) when it comes to unethical working conditions.

their inexorably greedy and paranoiac ex-CEO
You just covered about all CEOs. They did not get into that position by being nice people.

their modular upgrade concepts designed for the sole purpose of screwing the consumer
No one forced people that purchased non-upgradable equipment into buying the stuff.
If you're talking about the 'walled garden' approach to marketing; well Windows RT, Amazon, B&N, and to a certain extent, Google, are all moving to this type of environment.

their Russian Communist DRM
This DRM is not Apple's doing. Look to the media content providers for forcing that issue.

their blatant and repetitive patent trolling
Partially correct on this one. All companies do this, Apple is perfecting it. Yes, it does piss me off also.
 
2012-12-05 01:56:33 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: their inexorably greedy and paranoiac ex-CEO
You just covered about all CEOs. They did not get into that position by being nice people.


Well, not all CEOs...
 
2012-12-05 02:02:30 PM
Is it wrong that I kind of want one of those OQO Model 01's now?

i.imgur.com

I'm living in the future, baby! Oh, and there are two on EBay. Hmm...

Mind, I still kind of want a Newton, also. Looks like there're a few of those on EBay, too.
The holidays are going to be expensive this year if I'm not careful...
 
2012-12-05 02:02:36 PM

Carth: I think anyone with a bit of technical know how is better off with a Pi box than a XBOX/PS3. Can play any 1080p file you throw at it for under $70 and you can add a few TB of HD space and keep it under $150.


Yeah, if you know your way around a Linux distro you are golden with the Pi, or even a small AMD E-350 based book-sized mini-PC is going to work great. However, for the 99% of people out there that just want to fire up Amazon Instant Video and watch a movie or TV show, the gaming consoles give you a great experience. Xbox has tons of streaming services, like HBO Go and on-demand from several cable companies, while PS3 gives you Blu-Ray support.
 
2012-12-05 02:09:15 PM

Antimatter: realmolo: Elzar: List is useless without the Neo Geo... $250 per game - oh yeah!

The Neo Geo wasn't overpriced, really. It was expensive because it was VERY advanced technology. For 1990, anyway.

And the games were $250 each because they had ENORMOUS amounts of storage. Again, for the time.

Remember, the Neo Geo gave you 100% arcade quality.

The 3DO, on the other hand....yeah. They blew it with that thing.

A poor excuse though. $250 a game for arcade boards just wasn't realistic to ask of your average consumer, who could get games that were close to being as good for $70 on a snes or genesis.

It basically killed any chance for any mainstream neo-geo adoption. But your right, at least it was for a reason.


You're factually incorrect. The Neo-geo wasn't intended for the mainstream at all. It was arcade systems intended for, well, arcades, hotels and the like.

Apparently the mainstream /was/ interested in paying $250 for the games, which was why is /lasted/ /longer/ than the SNES and Genesis.

That's a historical fact, so there's really no debating it.
 
2012-12-05 02:09:25 PM
Sees the Sony VAIO P, the Apple Newton and the Mac G4 Cube, leaves satisfied.
 
2012-12-05 02:10:20 PM

akula: AdamK: by all accounts the ipad mini is overpriced but people are buying it anyways, so therefore i guess it isn't overpriced?

"Overpriced" is invariably in the eyes of the buyer. IMO, It's overpriced, so I haven't bought one. Many others apparently disagree as they plunk down cash.

Apple is great at pricing things right at the pain point- where people think it's a lot of money for a widget like that, but not so much that it drives them away.


they're the best at first impressions and getting people into stores to try out their devices (which leads to more buying in general regardless of what product is being sold), i'd bet money that most ipad mini's get bought after people first experience with an ipad mini is feeling the weight and ergonomic size

if all they did was slap a spec-sheet on an amazon product page it'd probably take a lot longer to impress people
 
2012-12-05 02:17:53 PM

Jedekai: DubyaHater: You guys ever get tired of ragging on Apple around here? Or is the hate towards Apple products a Pavlovian response at this point?
/yeah yeah, Welcome to Fark

I don't hate their products.

I hate their unethical business practices, their inexorably greedy and paranoiac ex-CEO, their modular upgrade concepts designed for the sole purpose of screwing the consumer, their Russian Communist DRM and their blatant and repetitive patent trolling.

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this regard...


At some point people the tech media in the States will run with some features about the past (and present) business practices of Samsung and then the socially conscious Fark consumer will have to start buying... Microsoft?
 
2012-12-05 02:22:16 PM
Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.
 
2012-12-05 02:26:31 PM
they forgot a month of fark----5$
make you holler
 
2012-12-05 02:26:57 PM
Anyone who paid $5 for a TF account has not business complaining about "overpriced junk".

/oblig
 
2012-12-05 02:27:53 PM

spawn73: You're factually incorrect. The Neo-geo wasn't intended for the mainstream at all. It was arcade systems intended for, well, arcades, hotels and the like.


They're talking about the home console, tard. There are two different versions.
 
2012-12-05 02:29:56 PM

AdamK: if all they did was slap a spec-sheet on an amazon product page it'd probably take a lot longer to impress people


True. Their devices do have a certain amount of user satisfaction in the way they feel and work. The spec sheets might not be that impressive (especially for the price), but people don't buy spec sheets. They buy devices.
 
2012-12-05 02:30:07 PM
I have two Apple TV's. I think the price was fair, and I get much enjoyment out of them.

Tell me what a loser I am.
 
2012-12-05 02:32:03 PM

Mad_Radhu:
[The Holy Jesus pricesheet]


And, you have to understand how much money even those $700 low-end 286/mono PCs were when you adjust for inflation. Okay... ~$1200, so in line with the lowest-end iMac today. But, there wasn't nearly as much 'far, far cheaper', like there is today.

This is why in 1991 my poor-but-geeky dad was still banging out tons of stuff on a TI-99, which TI killed off in 1984. Honestly, using it every day until 1994 or so. Because he picked up a complete TI-99 system for about $100 in 1985 (because it was a dead platform) and could never afford to get on the PC upgrade ladder.
 
2012-12-05 02:33:41 PM

Mad_Radhu: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.

It's pretty good if you are invested in the entire Mac ecosystem, and have devices where you can take advantage of Airplay and Airplay mirroring. For anyone else looking for a set top box for streaming media, you are probably better off with either a cheaper Roku or going full out and buying an Xbox 360 or PS3, which can not only handle media streaming but can also handle gaming and even Blu-Rays in the case of then PS3. htpc


FTFY

The consoles are still shiat media centers when compared to a PC. Media Browser and XBMC are both waaaay better than either of them. My 360 is awesome for games, and that is about it. My PS3 is awesome for collecting dust now that I rip and stream everything.
 
2012-12-05 02:35:27 PM
Not really a gadget, but it should be on the list.

Denon AKDL1 Dedicated Link Cable New:from $9,999.00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000I1X6PM/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=U T F8&condition=new
 
2012-12-05 02:36:21 PM
At its $499 base price, Microsoft's first tablet costs the same as the fourth-generation iPad, the well-established leader in the tablet market. The attractive Surface has a worse screen than the iPad, it lasts 5 hours less on a charge and, at launch time, had only a handful of decent apps for its nascent Windows RT operating system.

However, you may want the Surface because of its heavily-advertised Touch Cover keyboard, a must-have accessory that will set you back an extra $119, even though it costs Microsoft only $16 to manufacture. That's $619 for a new, unproven tablet which trails the $499 market leader in most ways.


I'm surprised the author was able to take Apple's dick out of their mouth long enough to write all of that. Of course they don't include any recent Apple products, isn't Gizmodo just a paid Apple shill at this point?

/and why the fark do we still link to gawker sites to begin with?
 
2012-12-05 02:39:19 PM

StrangeQ: At its $499 base price, Microsoft's first tablet costs the same as the fourth-generation iPad, the well-established leader in the tablet market. The attractive Surface has a worse screen than the iPad, it lasts 5 hours less on a charge and, at launch time, had only a handful of decent apps for its nascent Windows RT operating system.

However, you may want the Surface because of its heavily-advertised Touch Cover keyboard, a must-have accessory that will set you back an extra $119, even though it costs Microsoft only $16 to manufacture. That's $619 for a new, unproven tablet which trails the $499 market leader in most ways.

I'm surprised the author was able to take Apple's dick out of their mouth long enough to write all of that. Of course they don't include any recent Apple products, isn't Gizmodo just a paid Apple shill at this point?

/and why the fark do we still link to gawker sites to begin with?


And what part of his quoted text do you find inaccurate?
 
2012-12-05 02:40:19 PM

Teufelaffe: surface


For that price you get a good keyboard, USB (not available on iPad), MicroSD cardslot (again, not available on iPad),MS Office (worth $100 alone), etc.

I own both the Surface RT tablet and the new iPad (4), by the time I bought a cover for the iPad the price difference was only about $60. Prefer the surface by far (the wife uses the iPad for facebook and her games).
 
2012-12-05 02:40:28 PM

coolcashiat77: Not really a gadget, but it should be on the list.

Denon AKDL1 Dedicated Link Cable New:from $9,999.00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000I1X6PM/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=U T F8&condition=new


Linkified for you.

The Reviews are friggin' gold.

"Transmission of music data at rates faster than the speed of light seemed convenient, until I realized I was hearing the music before I actually wanted to play it. Apparently Denon forgot how accustomed most of us are to unidirectional time and the general laws of physics. I tried to get used to this effect but hearing songs play before I even realized I was in the mood for them just really screwed up my preconceptions of choice and free will. I'm still having a major existential hangover."
 
2012-12-05 02:41:14 PM

Gig103: And of the three that are on the list, they didn't mention the iPad Mini? It has the RAM, processor, and screen resolution of something two generations old, but manages to cost 1.65x the amount of a better Android tablet.


/Only hating on the iPad Mini, no issues with the full sized iPad


The full sized iPad has over 50% profit margin, ergo it is overpriced.

Amusing that none of the items on there mention margin at all, which is the key factor in determining if something is overpriced.
 
2012-12-05 02:44:35 PM

sure haven't: Also, I now know that Microsoft is not serious about the tablet market. Charging $119 for their cover thing when it only costs $16 to manufacture? Moronic.


It works well for other companies who are serious about their market

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-05 02:46:13 PM

Teufelaffe: According to reviews, it does have less battery life than the iPad, and a worse display, and the Windows app store is anemic compared to the competition.

So...what was incorrect?


The part where it neglected to mention that the short battery life is due to having much better (i.e. more expensive) hardware inside than the iPad. We know you guys only care about how pretty your gadgets are. The rest of us also care about their performance (which includes much more than just battery life).
 
2012-12-05 02:47:07 PM

wildcardjack: PCJr?

[toastytech.com image 765x533]

I have a great "The one that got away" story about the OQO. I found a tech website that had mispriced the OQO for $189.90, a simple matter of a typo in a spreadsheet somewhere. But I guess they had a flood of orders that weekend and a human intercepted all the orders and erased them from the system.


Avast me hearties bank of America is going belly up!
 
2012-12-05 02:48:43 PM

Mad_Radhu: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.

It's pretty good if you are invested in the entire Mac ecosystem, and have devices where you can take advantage of Airplay and Airplay mirroring. For anyone else looking for a set top box for streaming media, you are probably better off with either a cheaper Roku or going full out and buying an Xbox 360 or PS3, which can not only handle media streaming but can also handle gaming and even Blu-Rays in the case of then PS3. For me personally, I prefer to spend a little more for something like the PS3, which can handle just about all of my media in one box with gaming as a bonus cherry on top.


Ok, I hear people say things like this all the time. Am I the only one who sees the requirement to pay for XBOX Live to receive the honor of using my Netflix service on my XBOX? Is there a way around that?
 
2012-12-05 02:49:32 PM

Mad_Radhu: brigid_fitch: Where are Word Processors? They were huge in the mid- late-80s. "Hey, I know--let's make a computer than only does word processing, using proprietary computer disks & proprietary ribbon cartridges for the printer! And we'll charge only a couple hundred dollars less than an actual computer!"

/Yes, ribbon cartridges. Like a typewriter

Hey now, I had one of these from Brother that got me through high school in 1989-93:

[i.ebayimg.com image 222x300] 

I think it cost about $200-300 at the time, but for my parents it was a hell of a lot cheaper than getting me a PC to use for my papers and college applications:

[neonpulse.net image 850x1090]

Maybe it was better if you lived near a Fry's, but I don't remember seeing any PCs in my neck of the woods that were even vaguely affordable back then, especially once you added on a printer that was good enough quality to replace a typewriter.

Plus, you could always get the nylon ribbon that lasted longer than the cartridges. You couldn't do any corrections, granted, but you don't need to if you type out your whole paper in advance on the 5 line LCD display. Which was a pain in retrospect, but it sure as hell beat banging it out on a manual typewriter. Sure, they weren't prefect, but in the late 80s/early 90s, a lot of families couldn't afford to spend the cost of a decent used car for a computer that would be hopelessly outdated in three years.


This. I loved my Brother Word Processor, and they were $1,000 less expensive than a PC in the late 80's - early 90's. Mine had a daisy wheel print head (like a typewriter), and when it got up to speed you could hear it on the next block.

dl.dropbox.com
 
2012-12-05 02:52:55 PM

Bullseyed: Amusing that none of the items on there mention margin at all, which is the key factor in determining if something is overpriced.


Margin is not they key factor in determining whether something is overpriced. Utility and desirability are at least as large.

You could make a thousand custom cars. Dodgy ones. But, a unique engine design, hand-carved pieces, etc. These might cost $150k each to make and you price them at $160k. Decidedly low margin. They don't do anything better than, or even look better than a Honda Accord. Overpriced. And overpriced even at -90% margin.
 
2012-12-05 02:54:51 PM

umad: Teufelaffe: According to reviews, it does have less battery life than the iPad, and a worse display, and the Windows app store is anemic compared to the competition.

So...what was incorrect?

The part where it neglected to mention that the short battery life is due to having much better (i.e. more expensive) hardware inside than the iPad. We know you guys only care about how pretty your gadgets are. The rest of us also care about their performance (which includes much more than just battery life).


i50.tinypic.com

I don't see any earth shattering specs there that would account for lower battery performance.
 
2012-12-05 02:56:26 PM

umad: Teufelaffe: According to reviews, it does have less battery life than the iPad, and a worse display, and the Windows app store is anemic compared to the competition.

So...what was incorrect?

The part where it neglected to mention that the short battery life is due to having much better (i.e. more expensive) hardware inside than the iPad. We know you guys only care about how pretty your gadgets are. The rest of us also care about their performance (which includes much more than just battery life).


No...No...the iWhatever is better because Steve Jobs' ghost says it is. Anything else comparably priced and claiming better hardware is overpriced trash and farked your mom last night.
 
2012-12-05 02:56:51 PM

MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.


Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.
 
2012-12-05 02:57:58 PM

akula: AdamK: if all they did was slap a spec-sheet on an amazon product page it'd probably take a lot longer to impress people

True. Their devices do have a certain amount of user satisfaction in the way they feel and work. The spec sheets might not be that impressive (especially for the price), but people sheep don't buy spec sheets. They buy devices.


Fixed that for you.
 
2012-12-05 02:57:58 PM
Every top-of-the-line video card ever made
 
2012-12-05 02:59:16 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost


I don't see any earth shattering specs there that would account for lower battery performance.


What the hell is "forth generation"?

Does it include a Forth interpreter?


That would be okay.
 
2012-12-05 02:59:16 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: StrangeQ: At its $499 base price, Microsoft's first tablet costs the same as the fourth-generation iPad, the well-established leader in the tablet market. The attractive Surface has a worse screen than the iPad, it lasts 5 hours less on a charge and, at launch time, had only a handful of decent apps for its nascent Windows RT operating system.

However, you may want the Surface because of its heavily-advertised Touch Cover keyboard, a must-have accessory that will set you back an extra $119, even though it costs Microsoft only $16 to manufacture. That's $619 for a new, unproven tablet which trails the $499 market leader in most ways.

I'm surprised the author was able to take Apple's dick out of their mouth long enough to write all of that. Of course they don't include any recent Apple products, isn't Gizmodo just a paid Apple shill at this point?

/and why the fark do we still link to gawker sites to begin with?

And what part of his quoted text do you find inaccurate?


The part where he compares a base model $499 Surface + $100 keyboard to a base model $499 iPad without a keyboard and then says "SEE OVER PRICED SURFACE!!!!" Because you know, that iPad comes with a keyboard, right? Oh it doesn't? You have to buy it!!! The outrage!!!!

It's almost like he was being disingenuous or something.
 
2012-12-05 03:00:09 PM

Mugato: 10 grand for a PC? What do you even do with a PC where there's no internet? Write a paper? Get a typewriter.


The internet has been around since the 60s. There was an internet. Not one you could use the Lisa to access, but there was one.
 
2012-12-05 03:00:23 PM

umad: Teufelaffe: According to reviews, it does have less battery life than the iPad, and a worse display, and the Windows app store is anemic compared to the competition.

So...what was incorrect?

The part where it neglected to mention that the short battery life is due to having much better (i.e. more expensive) hardware inside than the iPad. We know you guys only care about how pretty your gadgets are. The rest of us also care about their performance (which includes much more than just battery life).


He also compared Surface + keyboard to plain old iPad without keyboard.
 
2012-12-05 03:04:05 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I don't see any earth shattering specs there that would account for lower battery performance.


More pixels.

But anyway, who cares? Unless you're a tech pundit, it's a $500 piece of electronics, not a pacemaker.
 
2012-12-05 03:04:25 PM

Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.


Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.
 
2012-12-05 03:07:16 PM
Does somebody pay for the anti-Apple headlines, and is that over or under the table?
 
2012-12-05 03:07:41 PM

MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.


I guess it's easier to biatch about people ragging on Apple's prices than it is to compare prices. In every market, with the singular exception of tablets, Apple products are almost always priced higher than comparable competitor's products. This is especially true in the PC market. iMacs are still $1300+ for something I can get from Dell for half that (even less if I build it myself).
 
2012-12-05 03:08:12 PM

Mad_Radhu: brigid_fitch: Where are Word Processors? They were huge in the mid- late-80s. "Hey, I know--let's make a computer than only does word processing, using proprietary computer disks & proprietary ribbon cartridges for the printer! And we'll charge only a couple hundred dollars less than an actual computer!"

/Yes, ribbon cartridges. Like a typewriter

Hey now, I had one of these from Brother that got me through high school in 1989-93:

[i.ebayimg.com image 222x300] 

I think it cost about $200-300 at the time, but for my parents it was a hell of a lot cheaper than getting me a PC to use for my papers and college applications:

[neonpulse.net image 850x1090]

Maybe it was better if you lived near a Fry's, but I don't remember seeing any PCs in my neck of the woods that were even vaguely affordable back then, especially once you added on a printer that was good enough quality to replace a typewriter.

Plus, you could always get the nylon ribbon that lasted longer than the cartridges. You couldn't do any corrections, granted, but you don't need to if you type out your whole paper in advance on the 5 line LCD display. Which was a pain in retrospect, but it sure as hell beat banging it out on a manual typewriter. Sure, they weren't prefect, but in the late 80s/early 90s, a lot of families couldn't afford to spend the cost of a decent used car for a computer that would be hopelessly outdated in three years.


So your'e the other guy that bought one of those?
I remember it only took forty forevers to print a page.
It actually was a sweet thing back then.
 
2012-12-05 03:08:44 PM

Bullseyed: Amusing that none of the items on there mention margin at all, which is the key factor in determining if something is overpriced.


I would disagree and define overpriced as compared to competitive products in the same market. That's why I vote for the iPad Mini. An iPad4 is $499, but an iPad Mini is $329. Smaller screen, lower resolution screen, slower processor, but 65% the cost of the full size, and 1.65x the cost of the Nexus w/ Android.
 
2012-12-05 03:08:52 PM

Rent Party: umad: Teufelaffe: According to reviews, it does have less battery life than the iPad, and a worse display, and the Windows app store is anemic compared to the competition.

So...what was incorrect?

The part where it neglected to mention that the short battery life is due to having much better (i.e. more expensive) hardware inside than the iPad. We know you guys only care about how pretty your gadgets are. The rest of us also care about their performance (which includes much more than just battery life).

He also compared Surface + keyboard to plain old iPad without keyboard.


Fair enough.
You can get a number of different keyboards for the iPad, at better quality, and much less then $119.

If you really want to take apart the comparison, the $499 iPad has 16GB, as opposed to the $499 surface having 32GB.
 
2012-12-05 03:09:55 PM
mediaserver.pulse2.com
 
2012-12-05 03:10:36 PM

mccallcl: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I don't see any earth shattering specs there that would account for lower battery performance.

More pixels.


The iPad has the better display, it's the Surface with lower battery life.
 
2012-12-05 03:11:44 PM

realmolo: Elzar: List is useless without the Neo Geo... $250 per game - oh yeah!

The Neo Geo wasn't overpriced, really. It was expensive because it was VERY advanced technology. For 1990, anyway.

And the games were $250 each because they had ENORMOUS amounts of storage. Again, for the time.

Remember, the Neo Geo gave you 100% arcade quality.

The 3DO, on the other hand....yeah. They blew it with that thing.


Came to defend the Neo Geo.

videogamecritic.net 

These were the graphics you got in your home in the early 90s. True, most of the games were beat-em-ups, and those that weren't were mainly side-scrollers. But so were arcade games of the time. And what you got were large, fully animated characters in 16-bit color.
 
2012-12-05 03:12:57 PM

MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.


I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.
 
2012-12-05 03:13:10 PM

Rent Party: umad: Teufelaffe: According to reviews, it does have less battery life than the iPad, and a worse display, and the Windows app store is anemic compared to the competition.

So...what was incorrect?

The part where it neglected to mention that the short battery life is due to having much better (i.e. more expensive) hardware inside than the iPad. We know you guys only care about how pretty your gadgets are. The rest of us also care about their performance (which includes much more than just battery life).

He also compared Surface + keyboard to plain old iPad without keyboard.


And that's not a factual error. The post that I initially responded to complained about "so many factual errors". Thus far, I haven't seen anyone point out any actual errors with the first item on the list in TFA.
 
2012-12-05 03:13:50 PM
 
2012-12-05 03:14:47 PM

Mad_Radhu: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.

It's pretty good if you are invested in the entire Mac ecosystem, and have devices where you can take advantage of Airplay and Airplay mirroring. For anyone else looking for a set top box for streaming media, you are probably better off with either a cheaper Roku or going full out and buying an Xbox 360 or PS3, which can not only handle media streaming but can also handle gaming and even Blu-Rays in the case of then PS3. For me personally, I prefer to spend a little more for something like the PS3, which can handle just about all of my media in one box with gaming as a bonus cherry on top.


Hell my like $90 blue-ray player does netflix, youtube, has a bunch of other free Sony content, sony's on demand service, and will play video's off a memory stick. Plus it will play blurays and standard DVD's. I think the current sony base model goes for around $70. and for a bit more you can have one that can wirelessly play stuff from a wifi network. In that sense I am not sure something like Apple TV seems like that good a deal.
 
2012-12-05 03:15:00 PM

Teufelaffe: Rent Party: umad: Teufelaffe: According to reviews, it does have less battery life than the iPad, and a worse display, and the Windows app store is anemic compared to the competition.

So...what was incorrect?

The part where it neglected to mention that the short battery life is due to having much better (i.e. more expensive) hardware inside than the iPad. We know you guys only care about how pretty your gadgets are. The rest of us also care about their performance (which includes much more than just battery life).

He also compared Surface + keyboard to plain old iPad without keyboard.

And that's not a factual error.


It's just a dishonest assessment. You may devolve into pedantry now.
 
2012-12-05 03:19:14 PM

Bullseyed: akula: AdamK: if all they did was slap a spec-sheet on an amazon product page it'd probably take a lot longer to impress people

True. Their devices do have a certain amount of user satisfaction in the way they feel and work. The spec sheets might not be that impressive (especially for the price), but people sheep don't buy spec sheets. They buy devices.

Fixed that for you.


No, I'd say you missed the point completely.

It isn't what the hardware is absolutely capable of doing, it's what you'll actually be doing with it. If device X (be that an iPad, Microsoft Surface, Android tablet, or whatever phone, or any computer, etc.) gets the job done easily and with minimum of hassle, that's really what people are after. What good is a faster processor or more open OS if it ultimately doesn't lend itself in practice to a computing experience that helps you get the job done?

Spec sheets have their value in comparing things when all other things are equal. If you're comparing Android phones, they'll be fine. The moment you start crossing platforms they lose their relevance. Look at the side by side that AVG posted- a user isn't going to say "Oh, a Tegra 3, that's so much better/worse than the A6X!" They're going to try out the devices and pick the one that seems to be more usable or worthwhile according to the user's own criteria. In that case, the spec sheet is pretty much pointless.

If you buy based on specs instead of basing your decision on what you're actually going to DO with it, then you may be happy you're not a sheep but you may well be an idiot wasting money because you can't do what you originally bought the thing expecting to do.
 
2012-12-05 03:19:31 PM

Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.


I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.
 
2012-12-05 03:19:35 PM

Bullseyed: Ok, I hear people say things like this all the time. Am I the only one who sees the requirement to pay for XBOX Live to receive the honor of using my Netflix service on my XBOX? Is there a way around that?


Yeah, that is bullshiat. Granted, most owners around going to want to get XBL for online gaming, but you can't even pop open IE to browse a web page with the Xbox, which makes the PS3 a lot better choice if you are going for a media device. Unfortunately, Xbox lined up HBO, ESPN, and the cable companies for streaming video content, so they have a big disadvantage compared to Xbox right now. Not to mention that the new console resign makes it crap for a media device because they went to top loading the discs instead of slot load, which is just bullshiat for a device designed to be a Blu-Ray player.
 
2012-12-05 03:20:18 PM

Teufelaffe: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

I guess it's easier to biatch about people ragging on Apple's prices than it is to compare prices. In every market, with the singular exception of tablets, Apple products are almost always priced higher than comparable competitor's products. This is especially true in the PC market. iMacs are still $1300+ for something I can get from Dell for half that (even less if I build it myself).


You're seriously comparing a computer you built to an iMac? WTF are you smoking, exactly?
 
2012-12-05 03:22:23 PM

mechgreg: In that sense I am not sure something like Apple TV seems like that good a deal.


The one thing an Apple TV has going for it is it will stream video off an iOS device. That can be useful, but if that isn't an overriding reason to have one, a Roku or most Blu-Ray players makes more sense. IMO (as a user of a couple iOS devices), I'd rather have a Roku or streaming capable Blu-Ray player than the Apple TV... a 30 pin (or lightning dock, depending on device) to HDMI dongle will put the iOS movies on the TV just as easily and in a more portable fashion (can even use it on hotel TVs too).
 
2012-12-05 03:24:19 PM

MrEricSir: You're seriously comparing a computer you built to an iMac? WTF are you smoking, exactly?


Explain how something you built can't be compared to a product build by someone else.

They certainly have different target markets - the iMac is a computer for people who don't want to build their own computer, or even upgrade. But if you're comparing price they're just two pieces of electronics. It's fair to compare them.
 
2012-12-05 03:26:38 PM

Treygreen13: MrEricSir: You're seriously comparing a computer you built to an iMac? WTF are you smoking, exactly?

Explain how something you built can't be compared to a product build by someone else.

They certainly have different target markets - the iMac is a computer for people who don't want to build their own computer, or even upgrade. But if you're comparing price they're just two pieces of electronics. It's fair to compare them.


Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?
 
2012-12-05 03:29:15 PM

MrEricSir: Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?


So since the display is built in, you can never compare it to another computer?

Ok then.
 
2012-12-05 03:30:44 PM

MrEricSir: Treygreen13: MrEricSir: You're seriously comparing a computer you built to an iMac? WTF are you smoking, exactly?

Explain how something you built can't be compared to a product build by someone else.

They certainly have different target markets - the iMac is a computer for people who don't want to build their own computer, or even upgrade. But if you're comparing price they're just two pieces of electronics. It's fair to compare them.

Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?


Except that a lot of home built rigs are going to run circles around that iMac.
And in 6 months, the home built is going to be capable of being upgraded if wanted. The new iMac? Nope, nada, never gonna happen.
 
2012-12-05 03:31:27 PM

Mad_Radhu: brigid_fitch: Where are Word Processors? They were huge in the mid- late-80s. "Hey, I know--let's make a computer than only does word processing, using proprietary computer disks & proprietary ribbon cartridges for the printer! And we'll charge only a couple hundred dollars less than an actual computer!"

/Yes, ribbon cartridges. Like a typewriter

Hey now, I had one of these from Brother that got me through high school in 1989-93:

[i.ebayimg.com image 222x300] 

I think it cost about $200-300 at the time, but for my parents it was a hell of a lot cheaper than getting me a PC to use for my papers and college applications:

[neonpulse.net image 850x1090]

Maybe it was better if you lived near a Fry's, but I don't remember seeing any PCs in my neck of the woods that were even vaguely affordable back then, especially once you added on a printer that was good enough quality to replace a typewriter.

Plus, you could always get the nylon ribbon that lasted longer than the cartridges. You couldn't do any corrections, granted, but you don't need to if you type out your whole paper in advance on the 5 line LCD display. Which was a pain in retrospect, but it sure as hell beat banging it out on a manual typewriter. Sure, they weren't prefect, but in the late 80s/early 90s, a lot of families couldn't afford to spend the cost of a decent used car for a computer that would be hopelessly outdated in three years.


I had one of those (or something very similar) during college in that same time frame (1988-1992). You could type up to 80 characters, IIRC, then had to hit "return" and they typed out onto the paper. At some point, my room mate got an Apple IIe and I switched to that, but for a long time, I used the Brother.
 
2012-12-05 03:33:17 PM

Treygreen13: MrEricSir: Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?

So since the display is built in, you can never compare it to another computer?

Ok then.


Think of it this way: the iMac is internally not much different than a giant laptop. Now, do you build laptops yourself? I mean, they're "just computers," right?
 
2012-12-05 03:36:24 PM

MrEricSir: Treygreen13: MrEricSir: Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?

So since the display is built in, you can never compare it to another computer?

Ok then.

Think of it this way: the iMac is internally not much different than a giant laptop. Now, do you build laptops yourself? I mean, they're "just computers," right?


The more accurate comparison between the "I BUILDZ IT MAHSELFS!!!" chest thumpers is the Mac Mini. You have to provide all the extras there, too, so you can do a more accurate feature comparison and cost benefit analysis.
 
2012-12-05 03:36:58 PM

WhippingBoy: I have two Apple TV's. I think the price was fair, and I get much enjoyment out of them.

Tell me what a loser I am.


I think the fact that you're getting all defensive about the fact that some people don't share your tastes in consumer products is the true proof of what a loser you are. That's the thin line between an Apple user and an Apple fanboy.

MrEricSir: Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?


Of course you can compare a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. And if cost is your highest priority, the Toyota wins. What a foolish thing to say.
 
2012-12-05 03:37:33 PM

Gig103: Bullseyed: Amusing that none of the items on there mention margin at all, which is the key factor in determining if something is overpriced.

I would disagree and define overpriced as compared to competitive products in the same market. That's why I vote for the iPad Mini. An iPad4 is $499, but an iPad Mini is $329. Smaller screen, lower resolution screen, slower processor, but 65% the cost of the full size, and 1.65x the cost of the Nexus w/ Android.


As much as I want to say that you disagreeing with the definition of the word does not change the definition of the word... value is a abstract concept. Some people value at the cost of the components, while others value at the willingness to pay. If you ascribe to the first principle, anything with high margin is overpriced. If you ascribe to the second then anything that doesn't sell well is overpriced.
 
2012-12-05 03:39:01 PM

MrEricSir: Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?


Not just 27", but a 2560 x1440 IPS display not some off brand 1080p monitor with a TN display that color shifts as soon as your turn your head a few inches. The cheapest one Dell sells is $799, and there really aren't many cheap options unless you grab a gray market import off of eBay. Not to mention, you also have to price in Bluetooth, a dual-band 802.11 N adapter, a Thunderbolt card, HD webcam, and a wireless mouse and keyboard. It's amazing how quickly the price goes up when you add of those little things in to your PC build. I briefly considered building a PC a while back, and after pricing out all the parts I decided I was better off with a refurbed 27" iMac. Hell, since it has DisplayPort in, I can even use the Mac as a monitor for my work laptop when I need to.
 
2012-12-05 03:42:53 PM

ReverendJasen: Overpriced Mac?

[www.248am.com image 370x277]
$7500 iMac.


That thing is absolutely hideous, uglier than the following year's 1998 iMac, if that is even possible. It reminds me of this thing that my mother used to have in the 70s that she would put her head into when she gave herself a perm, it was like a big hair dryer.
 
2012-12-05 03:43:15 PM

MrEricSir: Think of it this way: the iMac is internally not much different than a giant laptop.


I get that you like the built in display. But for many people, a desktop computer having a combined tower/screen isn't a big selling point considering the hefty additional price.

Since you like car analogies, let's go with this.

One car is your standard 4-door sedan.
The other is a 4-door sedan that can (at the press of a button) release the aroma of bacon into your car, at twice the price.

Now, the bacon smell is nice, and people are probably impressed that you got the new Baconmobile and want to ride in it. But then every day when you're driving to work, you're still pushing the same gas pedal and powering the same engine to drive your sedan. Except you paid twice as much for the bacon smell.
 
2012-12-05 03:44:09 PM

MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.


Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.
 
2012-12-05 03:45:24 PM

Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.


Err, no.
 
2012-12-05 03:47:03 PM

Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.


An object is worth what the market will bear to acquire it. You seem to think that something should be priced according to the cost to produce it, rather than the price people will pay to get it.

That is why you will always be poor.
 
2012-12-05 03:47:20 PM

Jackpot777: realmolo: Elzar: List is useless without the Neo Geo... $250 per game - oh yeah!

The Neo Geo wasn't overpriced, really. It was expensive because it was VERY advanced technology. For 1990, anyway.

And the games were $250 each because they had ENORMOUS amounts of storage. Again, for the time.

Remember, the Neo Geo gave you 100% arcade quality.

The 3DO, on the other hand....yeah. They blew it with that thing.

Came to defend the Neo Geo.

[videogamecritic.net image 640x480] 

These were the graphics you got in your home in the early 90s. True, most of the games were beat-em-ups, and those that weren't were mainly side-scrollers. But so were arcade games of the time. And what you got were large, fully animated characters in 16-bit color.


always wanted a neo-geo console but the price was just never justified. The games weren't that great, certainly not hundreds of dollars better than SNES and Genesis games, and once PC's got powerful enough to perfectly emulate the hardware (which did not take all that long) the Neo-Geo was just a non-issue.

i do want one of the new ones tho.

Neo Geo X gold
 
2012-12-05 03:48:00 PM

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.


Err, yes.
 
2012-12-05 03:49:39 PM

Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.


Looks like someone got an F in econ.
 
2012-12-05 03:49:41 PM

Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.


You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?
 
2012-12-05 03:50:31 PM

MrEricSir: Looks like someone got an F in econ.


I don't think he ever even tried economics.

You and I may disagree on the value of an iMac but his "anything 15% over cost is overpriced" is the dumbest thing I've seen in a long time.
 
2012-12-05 03:50:41 PM

HeartBurnKid: Of course you can compare a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. And if cost is your highest priority, the Toyota wins. What a foolish thing to say.


If cost is your top priority, you wouldn't be looking at the Lexus in the first place.
 
2012-12-05 03:50:43 PM
Jackpot777: These were the graphics you got in your home in the early 90s.

Allow me to post a screenshot for a far better looking neo*geo game :P

assets2.ignimgs.com 

// a sight to behold when animated
 
2012-12-05 03:50:45 PM

Rent Party: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

An object is worth what the market will bear to acquire it. You seem to think that something should be priced according to the cost to produce it, rather than the price people will pay to get it.

That is why you will always be poor.


You're confusing worth with willingness to pay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willingness_to_pay

"In economics, the willingness to pay (WTP) is the maximum amount a person would be willing to pay, sacrifice or exchange in order to receive a good"

That's your free MBA lesson of the day.
 
hej
2012-12-05 03:51:17 PM

realmolo: And the games were $250 each because they had ENORMOUS amounts of storage. Again, for the time.


And it was flash memory at that.
 
2012-12-05 03:51:32 PM

MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Looks like someone got an F in econ.


How's that theater degree working out for you?
 
2012-12-05 03:52:28 PM

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?


Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.
 
2012-12-05 03:54:40 PM

Bullseyed: Rent Party: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

An object is worth what the market will bear to acquire it. You seem to think that something should be priced according to the cost to produce it, rather than the price people will pay to get it.

That is why you will always be poor.

You're confusing worth with willingness to pay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willingness_to_pay

"In economics, the willingness to pay (WTP) is the maximum amount a person would be willing to pay, sacrifice or exchange in order to receive a good"

That's your free MBA lesson of the day.


You're an idiot. Your Wiki education just gave you "what the market will bear."

But please do keep it up, as I find it amusing. Also, go ahead and break out your 15% margin business plan and let us know how that works for you.
 
2012-12-05 03:54:44 PM

Treygreen13: MrEricSir: Think of it this way: the iMac is internally not much different than a giant laptop.

I get that you like the built in display. But for many people, a desktop computer having a combined tower/screen isn't a big selling point considering the hefty additional price.

Since you like car analogies, let's go with this.

One car is your standard 4-door sedan.
The other is a 4-door sedan that can (at the press of a button) release the aroma of bacon into your car, at twice the price.

Now, the bacon smell is nice, and people are probably impressed that you got the new Baconmobile and want to ride in it. But then every day when you're driving to work, you're still pushing the same gas pedal and powering the same engine to drive your sedan. Except you paid twice as much for the bacon smell.


How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?

IOS is a Ferrari and Windows 8 is a '78 Buick?
 
2012-12-05 03:55:29 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.


I have to get special permission for any deal at less than 43%, and my boss frowns upon those.
 
2012-12-05 03:55:58 PM

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?


http://ycharts.com/companies/BBY/profit_margin

The highest margin Best Buy has reached in the last decade is 6.2%.

http://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/profit_margin

Amazon hit 13.67% a while back.


Good luck finding anyone besides Apple pulling in 50% margins on electronics.
 
2012-12-05 03:57:31 PM

mcreadyblue: Treygreen13: MrEricSir: Think of it this way: the iMac is internally not much different than a giant laptop.

I get that you like the built in display. But for many people, a desktop computer having a combined tower/screen isn't a big selling point considering the hefty additional price.

Since you like car analogies, let's go with this.

One car is your standard 4-door sedan.
The other is a 4-door sedan that can (at the press of a button) release the aroma of bacon into your car, at twice the price.

Now, the bacon smell is nice, and people are probably impressed that you got the new Baconmobile and want to ride in it. But then every day when you're driving to work, you're still pushing the same gas pedal and powering the same engine to drive your sedan. Except you paid twice as much for the bacon smell.

How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?

IOS is a Ferrari and Windows 8 is a '78 Buick?


I haven't used Windows 8 yet. It could be a fine OS, or awful. I'll wait to reserve judgement.

iOS is a love-hate thing for me. I like it aesthetically but some parts of it irritate me.
 
2012-12-05 03:57:55 PM

Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

An object is worth what the market will bear to acquire it. You seem to think that something should be priced according to the cost to produce it, rather than the price people will pay to get it.

That is why you will always be poor.

You're confusing worth with willingness to pay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willingness_to_pay

"In economics, the willingness to pay (WTP) is the maximum amount a person would be willing to pay, sacrifice or exchange in order to receive a good"

That's your free MBA lesson of the day.

You're an idiot. Your Wiki education just gave you "what the market will bear."

But please do keep it up, as I find it amusing. Also, go ahead and break out your 15% margin business plan and let us know how that works for you.


For an entirely different economic term. Nice try though. What you just said is tantamount to "the grass is green therefore the sky is not blue".
 
2012-12-05 04:02:09 PM

Bullseyed: Good luck finding anyone besides Apple pulling in 50% margins on electronics.


Are you...
No.
You can't seriously be claiming that "profit margin" being less than 15% means that any product priced 15% over cost is "overpriced".
 
2012-12-05 04:03:16 PM

Bullseyed:
But please do keep it up, as I find it amusing. Also, go ahead and break out your 15% margin business plan and let us know how that works for you.

For an entirely different economic term. Nice try though. What you just said is tantamount to "the grass is green therefore the sky is not blue".


What you did was describe the exact same thing, there, Mr. Wiki MBA. There is no difference. And I love how you are trying to prop up retail margins in defense of manufacturing margins, too. It is extra amusing.

Do continue!
 
2012-12-05 04:03:16 PM

Rent Party: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.

I have to get special permission for any deal at less than 43%, and my boss frowns upon those.


What Fortune100 company do you work for so we can check out your Form - 10k and Form 10q?
 
2012-12-05 04:03:44 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.


 
Every industry is different.  Gorcery stores operate at something like less than 1% margin.
 
2012-12-05 04:05:02 PM

Bullseyed: For an entirely different economic term. Nice try though. What you just said is tantamount to "the grass is green therefore the sky is not blue".


You're moving the goalposts. Anything marked up more than 15% over cost isn't overpriced by definition. A business's profit margin takes into account everything, not just the price you sell the good for minus the cost. It's entirely possible to mark a product up 200% and lose money doing it.
 
2012-12-05 04:05:40 PM

downstairs: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.

 
Every industry is different.  Gorcery stores operate at something like less than 1% margin.


Electronics are usually around 5%. The hardware is usually between -2% and 1% and the services/software prop up the hardware.
 
2012-12-05 04:08:00 PM

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: For an entirely different economic term. Nice try though. What you just said is tantamount to "the grass is green therefore the sky is not blue".

You're moving the goalposts. Anything marked up more than 15% over cost isn't overpriced by definition. A business's profit margin takes into account everything, not just the price you sell the good for minus the cost. It's entirely possible to mark a product up 200% and lose money doing it.


If you marked it up 200% and lost money, then you didn't assess your operating costs properly. Operating costs are included in pricing, which is why bread and milk go up when the price of gas goes up. They have to ship the product on trucks, so the price is tied in to the cost of gas.

You clearly don't know the difference between profit/contribution margin and gross/machine margin.
 
2012-12-05 04:09:21 PM

downstairs: Every industry is different. Gorcery stores operate at something like less than 1% margin.


Indeed, and they operate on smaller product markups on many things. But according to the definition provided by Bullseyed a potato that cost 10 cents to produce would be "overpriced" at 12 cents.
 
2012-12-05 04:11:17 PM
If you think Apple products aren't overpriced you are a serious farking moron and I'd only take economic advice from you if I hated money
 
2012-12-05 04:14:05 PM

Bullseyed: Rent Party: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.

I have to get special permission for any deal at less than 43%, and my boss frowns upon those.

What Fortune100 company do you work for so we can check out your Form - 10k and Form 10q?


Privately held, sport. Software services standard margin is usually right around 43%, regardless of the size of the company. Businesses that race to the bottom with "We will do it for free!" don't last long.

And you're also confusing a company's total profit margin (net income vs costs) with the margin for a specific product, which is yet another demonstration of your complete ignorance.

But lets go by your metric, anyway, just for the lulz. Oracle pulled down 24% this year. So did Adobe Systems. Microsoft pulled 29%.

Do you need any other demonstrations of your complete ignorance?
 
2012-12-05 04:15:09 PM

Bullseyed: You clearly don't know the difference between profit/contribution margin and gross/machine margin.


I'm not the one confusing "overpriced" and "profit margin". Didn't you just say this:

Bullseyed: Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.


Why did you choose 15%?
 
2012-12-05 04:18:31 PM

Treygreen13: downstairs: Every industry is different. Gorcery stores operate at something like less than 1% margin.

Indeed, and they operate on smaller product markups on many things. But according to the definition provided by Bullseyed a potato that cost 10 cents to produce would be "overpriced" at 12 cents.


For period ending September 2012, profit margin by company:
Apple: 22.86%
Amazon: -1.98%
HP: -22.88%
Dell: 3.46%

For period ending June 2012, profit margin by company:
Apple: 25.19%
Amazon: 0.05%
HP: -29.85%
Dell: 5.05%

For period ending March 2012, profit margin by company:
Apple: 29.66%
Amazon: 0.99%
HP: 5.19%
Dell: 4.40%

For period ending December 2011, profit margin by company:
Apple: 28.20%
Amazon: 1.01%
HP: 4.89%
Dell: 4.77%

http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/profit_margin
http://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/profit_margin
http://ycharts.com/companies/HPQ/profit_margin
http://ycharts.com/companies/DELL/profit_margin

I'm sure they're just all lying on their financial statements and committing felonies, right? Everyone knows your boss doesn't stand less than 43%!!!!

Average for retail (grocers, etc): 1% margin
Average for electronics (other than Apple): 5% margin
Average for Apple: 25% margin

Apple charges roughly 50% margin on hardware and they lose money on their software.
- Report: iTunes costs $1.3 billon per year to run (http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/13/report-itunes-costs-1-3billon-per-year -to-run/)
 
2012-12-05 04:19:40 PM

mcreadyblue: How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?

IOS is a Ferrari and Windows 8 is a '78 Buick?


Apple:
www.travelandleisure.com

Microsoft:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-05 04:22:29 PM

Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.

I have to get special permission for any deal at less than 43%, and my boss frowns upon those.

What Fortune100 company do you work for so we can check out your Form - 10k and Form 10q?

Privately held, sport. Software services standard margin is usually right around 43%, regardless of the size of the company. Businesses that race to the bottom with "We will do it for free!" don't last long.

And you're also confusing a company's total profit margin (net income vs costs) with the margin for a specific product, which is yet another demonstration of your complete ignorance.

But lets go by your metric, anyway, just for the lulz. Oracle pulled down 24% this year. So did Adobe Systems. Microsoft pulled 29%.

Do you need any other demonstrations of your complete ignorance?


Yeah. Amazon and Walmart are very out of business. HP and Dell have only existed for a year or two. The tiny mom and pop shop you work for is not statistically significant.

Link to Oracle's tablet business? Cell phone business? We're waiting.

Microsoft's margin will drop to 5% if they transition into hardware instead of selling only software.
 
2012-12-05 04:24:50 PM

mcreadyblue: How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?


i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-05 04:25:53 PM

Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Looks like someone got an F in econ.

How's that theater degree working out for you?


I see, time for someone to go on my list of "special" Farkers.
 
2012-12-05 04:27:58 PM

Bullseyed:
Yeah. Amazon and Walmart are very out of business. HP and Dell have only existed for a year or two. The tiny mom and pop shop you work for is not statistically significant.

Link to Oracle's tablet business? Cell phone business? We're waiting.

Microsoft's margin will drop to 5% if they transition into hardware instead of selling only software.


And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.

Do you suppose Oracle and Microsoft and Adobe and Quallcom have the overall margins they have because they sold deals at *less* than 29%? Do you suppose that they *didn't* have to pay the HR lady and the janitor and the rent and the power bill out of that revenue? What do you suppose that would mean for the specific margin on the specific deals those companies put together in order to reach their net margin rates?

You really are that dumb. I find that amazing.
 
2012-12-05 04:28:38 PM

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: You clearly don't know the difference between profit/contribution margin and gross/machine margin.

I'm not the one confusing "overpriced" and "profit margin". Didn't you just say this:

Bullseyed: Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Why did you choose 15%?


Return on working capital. Less than 15% and you can generally make more money investing elsewhere. Each company has a different cost of capital, but 15% is generally a good baseline according to pretty much every business textbook.
 
2012-12-05 04:30:41 PM

Rent Party: And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.


So you think that Oracle manufactures cell phones. That says a lot.
 
2012-12-05 04:34:51 PM

Bullseyed: Rent Party: And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.

So you think that Oracle manufactures cell phones. That says a lot.


And you think they don't do high margin deals. Isn't that precious?!

You should just stop, because you're getting dumber every post.
 
2012-12-05 04:35:29 PM

Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

An object is worth what the market will bear to acquire it. You seem to think that something should be priced according to the cost to produce it, rather than the price people will pay to get it.

That is why you will always be poor.

You're confusing worth with willingness to pay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willingness_to_pay

"In economics, the willingness to pay (WTP) is the maximum amount a person would be willing to pay, sacrifice or exchange in order to receive a good"

That's your free MBA lesson of the day.

You're an idiot. Your Wiki education just gave you "what the market will bear."

But please do keep it up, as I find it amusing. Also, go ahead and break out your 15% margin business plan and let us know how that works for you.


I am willing to put out ther that an object is overpriced when its price point is over the WTP point.

And I personally have sold items at over 50% price point and the customer danced away happy. Not overpriced.
 
2012-12-05 04:36:50 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: spawn73: You're factually incorrect. The Neo-geo wasn't intended for the mainstream at all. It was arcade systems intended for, well, arcades, hotels and the like.

They're talking about the home console, tard. There are two different versions.


I know what they were talking about mongol, and that version was released exactly because there was a demand. Arguing otherwise is moronic, since we're talking about something that has happened, and thus can be verified as fact.
 
2012-12-05 04:36:57 PM

Bullseyed: Rent Party: And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.

So you think that Oracle manufactures cell phones. That says a lot.


Oh, and is Quallcomm involved in consumer electronics?

And are you still dumb?
 
2012-12-05 04:38:00 PM

Saiga410: am willing to put out ther that an object is overpriced when its price point is over the WTP point.

And I personally have sold items at over 50% price point and the customer danced away happy. Not overpriced.


So as long as Warren Buffet or Donald Trump is willing to buy 1 item from you, it isn't overpriced?

Nothing is overpriced then! Yay!

Can anyone find a cell phone or electronic gadget that sold zero units?
 
2012-12-05 04:38:00 PM

Saiga410:
I am willing to put out ther that an object is overpriced when its price point is over the WTP point.

And I personally have sold items at over 50% price point and the customer danced away happy. Not overpriced.


You mean you sold it at a price point that the market would bear?

Shocked I say! SHOCKED!!!
 
2012-12-05 04:41:08 PM

Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.

So you think that Oracle manufactures cell phones. That says a lot.

And you think they don't do high margin deals. Isn't that precious?!

You should just stop, because you're getting dumber every post.


"15 Most Overpriced Gadgets of All Time"

Since software isn't a gadget, find a non-software, electronic gadget product Oracle sells at over 30% margin.

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/index.html
 
2012-12-05 04:43:21 PM

Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.

So you think that Oracle manufactures cell phones. That says a lot.

Oh, and is Quallcomm involved in consumer electronics?

And are you still dumb?


Looking for an electronic gadget that Qualcomm sells. Considering they manufacture components, nope, no results found.
 
2012-12-05 04:43:21 PM

Bullseyed: Treygreen13: downstairs: Every industry is different. Gorcery stores operate at something like less than 1% margin.

Indeed, and they operate on smaller product markups on many things. But according to the definition provided by Bullseyed a potato that cost 10 cents to produce would be "overpriced" at 12 cents.

For period ending September 2012, profit margin by company:
Apple: 22.86%
Amazon: -1.98%
HP: -22.88%
Dell: 3.46%

For period ending June 2012, profit margin by company:
Apple: 25.19%
Amazon: 0.05%
HP: -29.85%
Dell: 5.05%

For period ending March 2012, profit margin by company:
Apple: 29.66%
Amazon: 0.99%
HP: 5.19%
Dell: 4.40%

For period ending December 2011, profit margin by company:
Apple: 28.20%
Amazon: 1.01%
HP: 4.89%
Dell: 4.77%

http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/profit_margin
http://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/profit_margin
http://ycharts.com/companies/HPQ/profit_margin
http://ycharts.com/companies/DELL/profit_margin

I'm sure they're just all lying on their financial statements and committing felonies, right? Everyone knows your boss doesn't stand less than 43%!!!!

Average for retail (grocers, etc): 1% margin
Average for electronics (other than Apple): 5% margin
Average for Apple: 25% margin

Apple charges roughly 50% margin on hardware and they lose money on their software.
- Report: iTunes costs $1.3 billon per year to run (http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/13/report-itunes-costs-1-3billon-per-year -to-run/)


And that has what, exactly, to do with your original statement that any product that sells at more than 15% of the cost to create it is "overpriced"? Still waiting for that. Pricing points are established by companies for a myriad of reasons. Some products are even priced over that of a competitive product for the purposes of marketing.

Bullseyed: Return on working capital. Less than 15% and you can generally make more money investing elsewhere. Each company has a different cost of capital, but 15% is generally a good baseline according to pretty much every business textbook.


So... let me get this straight. Anything company that operates at 15% is selling goods at a price that is "overpriced" and anything under 15% is not worth investing in?
 
2012-12-05 04:45:19 PM

Treygreen13: So... let me get this straight.


I don't have the time required for you to comprehend economic concepts.

Enjoy your public school education.
 
2012-12-05 04:45:39 PM

Bullseyed: Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.

So you think that Oracle manufactures cell phones. That says a lot.

And you think they don't do high margin deals. Isn't that precious?!

You should just stop, because you're getting dumber every post.

"15 Most Overpriced Gadgets of All Time"

Since software isn't a gadget, find a non-software, electronic gadget product Oracle sells at over 30% margin.

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/index.html


Quallcomm and Microsoft build gadgets. I even own some of them.

Then: "Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced."

Now: "Yeah, well, that's not a *gadget.*"

Keep dancing, kid. It is amusing. When you get a hair on your ass and actually function in a business, you can come back and talk to the grownups.
 
2012-12-05 04:45:57 PM

Bullseyed: Saiga410: am willing to put out ther that an object is overpriced when its price point is over the WTP point.

And I personally have sold items at over 50% price point and the customer danced away happy. Not overpriced.

So as long as Warren Buffet or Donald Trump is willing to buy 1 item from you, it isn't overpriced?

Nothing is overpriced then! Yay!

Can anyone find a cell phone or electronic gadget that sold zero units?


I work in a onezy twozy enviroment so it is what it is but all of the gadgets listed in the article sold some units but nowhere near the volume that similar products did... then when looked at the price you go OMG no way... clear indication that it was overpriced.

Apple products are selling like gangbusters, even though I they are priced well over what I am willing to pay, the general market disagrees with me.
 
2012-12-05 04:48:10 PM

Bullseyed: I don't have the time required for you to comprehend economic concepts.


Don't forget to take your ball when you go home!

Bullseyed: Enjoy your public school education.


Guess which one of us has a degree in this?
 
2012-12-05 04:49:21 PM

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: I don't have the time required for you to comprehend economic concepts.

Don't forget to take your ball when you go home!

Bullseyed: Enjoy your public school education.

Guess which one of us has a degree in this?


[ohsnap.jpg]
 
2012-12-05 04:53:35 PM

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: I don't have the time required for you to comprehend economic concepts.

Don't forget to take your ball when you go home!

Bullseyed: Enjoy your public school education.

Guess which one of us has a degree in this?


gbge.aclu.org
 
2012-12-05 05:03:14 PM

Gig103: Bullseyed: Amusing that none of the items on there mention margin at all, which is the key factor in determining if something is overpriced.

I would disagree and define overpriced as compared to competitive products in the same market. That's why I vote for the iPad Mini. An iPad4 is $499, but an iPad Mini is $329. Smaller screen, lower resolution screen, slower processor, but 65% the cost of the full size, and 1.65x the cost of the Nexus w/ Android.


I would define it as relative to someone's wages, or intelligence. Mostly intelligence.
Apple is laughably overpriced.
 
2012-12-05 05:07:26 PM

mcreadyblue: How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?


images.businessweek.com
 
2012-12-05 05:11:28 PM

Bullseyed: Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.


assets.allbusiness.com

If only there were a way to determine if a good is over- or under-priced.
 
2012-12-05 05:20:34 PM

sure haven't: Apple is laughably overpriced.


There's a difference between your product being "expensive" and "overpriced", at least in terms of the impression it gives the consumer. Consumers are simply uninformed about the product they're buying on many, many occasions. This leads to opportunities for companies to price their product over that of their competitor and add perceived value to their product.

For example, how much better is Rembrandt toothpaste over, say, Crest? Unless you happen to work for a company that sells toothpaste, you'd probably never know if Rembrandt is worth double (or even triple) the cost of a comparable product. But the consumer, if offered a free tube of either, would take the Rembrandt. Why? Because the premium pricing strategy has communicated a value in spite of the fact that if you took them out of the tubes the average person would never be able to tell the difference. And if people see Rembrandt toothpaste later at or near a price comparable to Crest they're more likely to buy it.

Pricing strategies and consumer behavior is a fascinating study. I tell every student I meet to take at least one class in Advertising when they're in college.

To get back on topic, I'm not implying that Apple products provide no benefits compared to their competitors. As was said earlier, the built-in monitor of the iMac is a selling point that I discount but might really matter to somebody else. But Apple certainly practices a pricing strategy that isn't just cost-plus pricing - there's some perceived value being artificially added through both the pricing and their marketing. Which is extremely slick, by the way.
 
2012-12-05 05:35:14 PM

Treygreen13: sure haven't: Apple is laughably overpriced.

There's a difference between your product being "expensive" and "overpriced", at least in terms of the impression it gives the consumer. Consumers are simply uninformed about the product they're buying on many, many occasions. This leads to opportunities for companies to price their product over that of their competitor and add perceived value to their product.

For example, how much better is Rembrandt toothpaste over, say, Crest? Unless you happen to work for a company that sells toothpaste, you'd probably never know if Rembrandt is worth double (or even triple) the cost of a comparable product. But the consumer, if offered a free tube of either, would take the Rembrandt. Why? Because the premium pricing strategy has communicated a value in spite of the fact that if you took them out of the tubes the average person would never be able to tell the difference. And if people see Rembrandt toothpaste later at or near a price comparable to Crest they're more likely to buy it.


Plain old table salt is the classic example of this effect, I think. It's NaCl, and has been since the big bang, but you see wide pricing based on brand identity.
 
2012-12-05 05:48:43 PM

mcreadyblue: How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-05 05:51:19 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: mcreadyblue: How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?

[i48.tinypic.com image 700x525]


No, that's Vista.
 
2012-12-05 05:58:57 PM

Mad_Radhu: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.

It's pretty good if you are invested in the entire Mac ecosystem, and have devices where you can take advantage of Airplay and Airplay mirroring. For anyone else looking for a set top box for streaming media, you are probably better off with either a cheaper Roku or going full out and buying an Xbox 360 or PS3, which can not only handle media streaming but can also handle gaming and even Blu-Rays in the case of then PS3. For me personally, I prefer to spend a little more for something like the PS3, which can handle just about all of my media in one box with gaming as a bonus cherry on top.


Yeah but the PS3 is a terrible media player for anything but netflix
 
2012-12-05 06:03:16 PM
My girlfriend has one of those Motorola laptop docks, but it was a freebie from my hookup at AT&T. She uses it in the kitchen when she's trying new recipes.

/got nothin'
 
2012-12-05 06:12:37 PM

HeartBurnKid: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: mcreadyblue: How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?

[i48.tinypic.com image 700x525]

No, that's Vista.


Approves. (Breaking Bad clip- semi-NSFW)
 
2012-12-05 06:25:25 PM

ReverendJasen: Overpriced Mac?

[www.248am.com image 370x277]
$7500 iMac.


Yeah, they totally missed that one.
 
2012-12-05 06:27:59 PM

Mad_Radhu: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.

It's pretty good if you are invested in the entire Mac ecosystem, and have devices where you can take advantage of Airplay and Airplay mirroring. For anyone else looking for a set top box for streaming media, you are probably better off with either a cheaper Roku or going full out and buying an Xbox 360 or PS3, which can not only handle media streaming but can also handle gaming and even Blu-Rays in the case of then PS3. For me personally, I prefer to spend a little more for something like the PS3, which can handle just about all of my media in one box with gaming as a bonus cherry on top.


Games plus Blu-Ray was how I justified my PS3. Then they added the other content sources and it got that much better. The only thing it doesn't do is record TV, which is why I keep my TiVo around.
 
2012-12-05 06:44:29 PM
I'm disappointed no one mentioned Flow being on the list. It's a spectacular game. In fact, in our design classes it was used as an example of how to design games. Simple mechanics, but with depth in play. Intuitive, but adapting.

Flow 
 
2012-12-05 06:48:57 PM
Much of this list deals with "over rated, over sold" items. Actual insanely expensive stuff not included.
First:
The Star/Alto has to beat the Lisa by doing mostly the same thing, only earlier and more expensively.
Second:
Google the "kitchen computer". All the features of the "Iamrich" app, but more expensive (in its day).
Third:
Does the PDP-7 count? I'm pretty sure somebody bought one for personal use, but it was never marketed as such. Steve Wozniak told his father about his intention to buy one. His father pointed out it cost as much as a house. Steve decided he better solder something together on his own...
 
2012-12-05 06:59:59 PM

Vash's Apprentice: Antimatter: What, no Neo-geo or 3DO? Both were interesting systems killed by insane prices on the console and games. I'd say the ps3 ranks up there, at launch anyways, but those two are still king.

At least they were honest about being game consoles


Sears used CD-I for training courses for their automotive associates.
 
2012-12-05 07:03:14 PM

Nofun: Every mac ever has been overpriced, especially lately. Way back when, you could actually somewhat justify the price since they built their own hardware in house. Now, they're exactly the same thing as a Windows computer with a shiny aluminum case, their own proprietary OS, and a $500 markup.


It's a really, really, nice aluminum case, and the OS is the whole point. Since you can't buy the OS licensed for anything but a Mac, we don't even know how much of a Mac price is the OS. Even when they sold full installs of the OS in a retail box, the price of that box was technically an upgrade of your user license that came with your Mac hardware.
 
2012-12-05 07:09:09 PM

moothemagiccow: Yeah but the PS3 is a terrible media player for anything but netflix


Amazon Instant Video works fine for me, and Vudu looks gorgeous. H.264/MP4 encoded video works great as well. If you're like 95% of the people in the world, that's all you need. The 5% in the world that need to play back an MKV file that they borrowed from Kim Dotcom and encoded in a weird file format are unfortunately out of luck, but most corporations don't spend a lot of resources trying to cater to people that don't like paying for stuff, because they tend not to be a very profitable consumer segment.

Seriously, pirates. Can we please standardize on a file format? What is wrong with H.264? They are worse than hipsters in moving on to another format just as soon as every device starts native supporting the preferred format. First DivX/XviD, now H.264. I'm sure that as soon as MKV is supported on all devices, they'll invent some new marginally better container and codec just for the lulz.
 
2012-12-05 07:18:09 PM

Nem Wan: Nofun: Every mac ever has been overpriced, especially lately. Way back when, you could actually somewhat justify the price since they built their own hardware in house. Now, they're exactly the same thing as a Windows computer with a shiny aluminum case, their own proprietary OS, and a $500 markup.

It's a really, really, nice aluminum case, and the OS is the whole point. Since you can't buy the OS licensed for anything but a Mac, we don't even know how much of a Mac price is the OS. Even when they sold full installs of the OS in a retail box, the price of that box was technically an upgrade of your user license that came with your Mac hardware.


Also, every version of Mac OS you get is the same, unlike Windows where there's a lot of functionality that you lose on the home version. It's getting better with Win 8, but Win 7 was a huge mess because some key features like BitLocker required an expensive upgrade to the Ultimate Edition. I can understand things like joining a domain being left out of the home version, but who doesn't want to have the option for strong drive encryption?

Hell, OS X Server is now just a $20 upgrade of the base OS, so you can cheaply turn a Mac Mini into a small business server. How much is that going to cost you with a cheap PC?
 
2012-12-05 07:18:51 PM

spawn73: The All-Powerful Atheismo: spawn73: You're factually incorrect. The Neo-geo wasn't intended for the mainstream at all. It was arcade systems intended for, well, arcades, hotels and the like.

They're talking about the home console, tard. There are two different versions.

I know what they were talking about mongol, and that version was released exactly because there was a demand. Arguing otherwise is moronic, since we're talking about something that has happened, and thus can be verified as fact.


Call me a mongol if you want but you're a farking tard for saying it was meant for arcades and hotels when it, being what they were quite specifically referring to, was a home console version.
 
2012-12-05 07:23:01 PM
Gizmodo not only throats Apple, but cups their balls, too, apparently.
 
2012-12-05 07:24:47 PM

Rockstone: Mugato: 10 grand for a PC? What do you even do with a PC where there's no internet? Write a paper? Get a typewriter.

The internet has been around since the 60s. There was an internet. Not one you could use the Lisa to access, but there was one.


Yes I'm very aware of ARPANET, et all, you don't have to lord over us your vast knowledge of internet history. You know what I meant.
 
2012-12-05 07:38:09 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: spawn73: The All-Powerful Atheismo: spawn73: You're factually incorrect. The Neo-geo wasn't intended for the mainstream at all. It was arcade systems intended for, well, arcades, hotels and the like.

They're talking about the home console, tard. There are two different versions.

I know what they were talking about mongol, and that version was released exactly because there was a demand. Arguing otherwise is moronic, since we're talking about something that has happened, and thus can be verified as fact.

Call me a mongol if you want but you're a farking tard for saying it was meant for arcades and hotels when it, being what they were quite specifically referring to, was a home console version.


"Initially, the home system was only available for rent to commercial establishments, such as hotel chains, bars and restaurants, and other venues. When customer response indicated that some gamers were willing to buy a $650 console, SNK expanded sales and marketing into the home console market."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Geo


When I made the argument that this was something that could be verified as fact, it didn't cross your mind that I might have done precisely that? Dude, you are a bit slow...
 
2012-12-05 07:40:58 PM

Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.


A 15% margin won't even keep your business open.
 
2012-12-05 07:51:18 PM

Elzar: List is useless without the Neo Geo... $250 per game - oh yeah!


infiniteexplosions.files.wordpress.com

Actual Neo-Geo ad.
 
2012-12-05 07:53:52 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Honest Bender: [maxcdn.fooyoh.com image 540x271]

Apple TV is $99, and it's actually not a bad deal.
I've never rented a movie through the thing, but it's nice for streaming Netflix, plus some other free content.


And Roku is $50. So, yeah, twice what your competition puts out for almost exactly the same product? Yeah, that's a bad deal.
 
2012-12-05 08:00:32 PM

Teufelaffe: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

I guess it's easier to biatch about people ragging on Apple's prices than it is to compare prices. In every market, with the singular exception of tablets, Apple products are almost always priced higher than comparable competitor's products. This is especially true in the PC market. iMacs are still $1300+ for something I can get from Dell for half that (even less if I build it myself).


I just was in a Best Buy and saw tablets from Samsung, Amazon, and a few other manufacturers which seemed quite comparable to anything Apple put out that were a whole lot cheaper.
 
2012-12-05 08:02:34 PM

MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.


Are you seriously unable to understand his point? If so, that's on you, not him. He made his point quite clear.
 
2012-12-05 08:06:20 PM

MrEricSir: Treygreen13: MrEricSir: You're seriously comparing a computer you built to an iMac? WTF are you smoking, exactly?

Explain how something you built can't be compared to a product build by someone else.

They certainly have different target markets - the iMac is a computer for people who don't want to build their own computer, or even upgrade. But if you're comparing price they're just two pieces of electronics. It's fair to compare them.

Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?


As someone who doesn't understand why people buy new cars instead of used, let alone luxury brands instead of mainstream ones, I would say -- nothing of significance.
 
2012-12-05 08:10:22 PM

mcreadyblue: Treygreen13: MrEricSir: Think of it this way: the iMac is internally not much different than a giant laptop.

I get that you like the built in display. But for many people, a desktop computer having a combined tower/screen isn't a big selling point considering the hefty additional price.

Since you like car analogies, let's go with this.

One car is your standard 4-door sedan.
The other is a 4-door sedan that can (at the press of a button) release the aroma of bacon into your car, at twice the price.

Now, the bacon smell is nice, and people are probably impressed that you got the new Baconmobile and want to ride in it. But then every day when you're driving to work, you're still pushing the same gas pedal and powering the same engine to drive your sedan. Except you paid twice as much for the bacon smell.

How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?

IOS is a Ferrari and Windows 8 is a '78 Buick?


If you have a touch-screen and Windows 8 you're going to realize that Apple is about to get their shiat kicked in. Windows 8 without a touchscreen? Yeah, eh. Windows 8 with a touchscreen? Holy god, it's good.
 
2012-12-05 08:26:48 PM

meanmutton: Are you seriously unable to understand his point? If so, that's on you, not him. He made his point quite clear.


If his point is that he doesn't understand how to compare prices, then yes. If he attempted to respond to anything I wrote, then he's an idiot.
 
2012-12-05 09:35:33 PM

Mad_Radhu: Nem Wan: Nofun: Every mac ever has been overpriced, especially lately. Way back when, you could actually somewhat justify the price since they built their own hardware in house. Now, they're exactly the same thing as a Windows computer with a shiny aluminum case, their own proprietary OS, and a $500 markup.

It's a really, really, nice aluminum case, and the OS is the whole point. Since you can't buy the OS licensed for anything but a Mac, we don't even know how much of a Mac price is the OS. Even when they sold full installs of the OS in a retail box, the price of that box was technically an upgrade of your user license that came with your Mac hardware.

Also, every version of Mac OS you get is the same, unlike Windows where there's a lot of functionality that you lose on the home version. It's getting better with Win 8, but Win 7 was a huge mess because some key features like BitLocker required an expensive upgrade to the Ultimate Edition. I can understand things like joining a domain being left out of the home version, but who doesn't want to have the option for strong drive encryption?

Hell, OS X Server is now just a $20 upgrade of the base OS, so you can cheaply turn a Mac Mini into a small business server. How much is that going to cost you with a cheap PC?


Linux is free, and dead easy to set up....
 
2012-12-05 09:56:30 PM

PsyLord: [upload.wikimedia.org image 300x200]

/am I doing this right?
/not sure


Bring back the F-16s.

/i'd have an awesome job
 
2012-12-05 10:14:49 PM

Mad_Radhu: mcreadyblue: How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?

[images.businessweek.com image 600x350]


Hey now, I like Subaru Baja.

I loved the Brat.

cache.jalopnik.com
 
2012-12-05 10:51:49 PM
If Windows 8 were a car, the steering wheel, pedals and gear shift would all be replaced by buttons, and they would be in the same place as the buttons for the heat, A/C, stereo and anything else they decided to cram in. Good luck figuring out how to drive, and not crash. Did I mention that the brakes are in a hidden location, and you have to do a complicated gesture to open a panel and get to them?
 
2012-12-05 11:34:37 PM
How could they miss the Vertu phones on this list? Because spending $10,000+ for a 5-year-old Nokia phone encrusted in gold and jewels sounds like a real bargain.
 
2012-12-05 11:43:40 PM

Rent Party: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: StrangeQ: At its $499 base price, Microsoft's first tablet costs the same as the fourth-generation iPad, the well-established leader in the tablet market. The attractive Surface has a worse screen than the iPad, it lasts 5 hours less on a charge and, at launch time, had only a handful of decent apps for its nascent Windows RT operating system.

However, you may want the Surface because of its heavily-advertised Touch Cover keyboard, a must-have accessory that will set you back an extra $119, even though it costs Microsoft only $16 to manufacture. That's $619 for a new, unproven tablet which trails the $499 market leader in most ways.

I'm surprised the author was able to take Apple's dick out of their mouth long enough to write all of that. Of course they don't include any recent Apple products, isn't Gizmodo just a paid Apple shill at this point?

/and why the fark do we still link to gawker sites to begin with?

And what part of his quoted text do you find inaccurate?

The part where he compares a base model $499 Surface + $100 keyboard to a base model $499 iPad without a keyboard and then says "SEE OVER PRICED SURFACE!!!!" Because you know, that iPad comes with a keyboard, right? Oh it doesn't? You have to buy it!!! The outrage!!!!

It's almost like he was being disingenuous or something.


Eh just two-three weeks ago woot was selling refurb Asus TF300's w/ the keyboard dock for 300 bucks. Even new you can get the combo for 400 bucks or so. Same chip too, though the surface might have a better screen.s
 
2012-12-06 01:02:28 AM
I saw a $250 HDMI cord in a Crutchfield magazine.....disgusting!
 
2012-12-06 01:52:40 AM

brigid_fitch:

/Yes, ribbon cartridges. Like a typewriter


They just stole that idea from the Resident Evil series...I smell a lawsuit!
 
2012-12-06 04:01:50 AM

Mad_Radhu: Seriously, pirates. Can we please standardize on a file format? What is wrong with H.264? They are worse than hipsters in moving on to another format just as soon as every device starts native supporting the preferred format. First DivX/XviD, now H.264. I'm sure that as soon as MKV is supported on all devices, they'll invent some new marginally better container and codec just for the lulz.


Oh indeed. People got mad at me for uploading .mpg containers, despite universal playback capability. It was the default in mkv2vob.
 
Xai
2012-12-06 06:12:58 AM
The very first one on the list is Microsoft's $500 32Gb tablet with a $120 keyboard/cover. Despite the fact that iPad 32Gb is $600 and it's another $150 for keyboard and cover.

Not at all biased.
 
2012-12-06 08:25:21 AM

Xai: The very first one on the list is Microsoft's $500 32Gb tablet with a $120 keyboard/cover. Despite the fact that iPad 32Gb is $600 and it's another $150 for keyboard and cover.

Not at all biased.


The 32Gb Xoom is only $329. That doesn't mean it isn't overpriced for what you get.
 
Xai
2012-12-06 09:00:36 AM

Carth: Xai: The very first one on the list is Microsoft's $500 32Gb tablet with a $120 keyboard/cover. Despite the fact that iPad 32Gb is $600 and it's another $150 for keyboard and cover.

Not at all biased.

The 32Gb Xoom is only $329. That doesn't mean it isn't overpriced for what you get.


The surface has a larger screen, built in stand, top quality build, connectivity and compatability, is thinner than the iPad and comes pre-installed with office applications. Given that it is cheaper than an equivalent iPad then I don't see why it isn't better value. In fact the only tangible downside Gizmodo can give (aside from the blatant lie of 5hrs less battery life - iPad is 10hrs, surface is 8) is that there are fewer apps, and considering that the tablet has been out for about 1 month I'd say it isn't doing bad.

It doesn't have the apple logo and will never outsell it, but why is it on top a list of overpriced things when the apple version costs more and does less.
 
2012-12-06 09:36:04 AM
What, no love for the Wattgate 381?
 
2012-12-06 10:04:40 AM

Antimatter: What, no Neo-geo or 3DO? Both were interesting systems killed by insane prices on the console and games. I'd say the ps3 ranks up there, at launch anyways, but those two are still king.


Neo-Geo is best thought of as an arcade platform (a la Capcom's CPS or Sega's System 16) where the manufacturer experimented with a home system to see if it would result in additional revenue.

3DO and PS3 both suffered from spec fetishism and crammed more power into the hardware than was called for, and ended up with astronomical consumer prices as a result. Sony's survived because they were Sony; none of the members of the 3DO consortium were very committed to the product in the first place, and wisely let it die.
 
2012-12-06 10:24:47 AM

Xai: Carth: Xai: The very first one on the list is Microsoft's $500 32Gb tablet with a $120 keyboard/cover. Despite the fact that iPad 32Gb is $600 and it's another $150 for keyboard and cover.

Not at all biased.

The 32Gb Xoom is only $329. That doesn't mean it isn't overpriced for what you get.

The surface has a larger screen, built in stand, top quality build, connectivity and compatability, is thinner than the iPad and comes pre-installed with office applications. Given that it is cheaper than an equivalent iPad then I don't see why it isn't better value. In fact the only tangible downside Gizmodo can give (aside from the blatant lie of 5hrs less battery life - iPad is 10hrs, surface is 8) is that there are fewer apps, and considering that the tablet has been out for about 1 month I'd say it isn't doing bad.

It doesn't have the apple logo and will never outsell it, but why is it on top a list of overpriced things when the apple version costs more and does less.


I went to the local MS store (holiday store), with the intention of buying one. While I agree that it seems pretty solidly built, and I like the aspect ratio of the screen, I was underwhelmed with the performance.
I passed on it. 
But yeah, it should not be included on the over-priced list.
 
2012-12-06 10:26:41 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: If you really want to take apart the comparison, the $499 iPad has 16GB, as opposed to the $499 surface having 32GB.


Well, yeah -- if they shipped a Windows RT device with only 16GB of storage, there'd be no room left for apps or data.
 
2012-12-06 10:29:54 AM

poot_rootbeer: Sony's survived because they were Sony; none of the members of the 3DO consortium were very committed to the product in the first place, and wisely let it die.


Sony kept the PS3 alive because it was basically a trojan horse for the Blu-ray format. When the war was raging between Blu-ray and HD DVD the fact that there were already millions of Blu-ray players in peoples' houses (disguised as game machines) was not insignificant. Sony probably makes more money off of Blu-ray licensing fees than they ever did off the PS3.

Also, much hay has been made about the initial high cost of the PS3, but if you take the cost of the original Atari 2600 and adjust it for inflation, you get pretty much the same price as the PS3 was at release.
 
2012-12-06 10:30:57 AM

meanmutton: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

Are you seriously unable to understand his point? If so, that's on you, not him. He made his point quite clear.


I don't understand what profit margin has to do with whether or not something is overpriced. If I want something enough to spend $700 on it and it is priced at $700, then it is priced correctly. The cost of manufacturing doesn't factor into the equation.

Of course, I don't want an iPhone5 enough to spend $700, but lots of people do.
 
2012-12-06 11:39:14 AM

ThePuceGuardian: Is it wrong that I kind of want one of those OQO Model 01's now?

i.imgur.com

I'm living in the future, baby! Oh, and there are two on EBay. Hmm...

Mind, I still kind of want a Newton, also. Looks like there're a few of those on EBay, too.
The holidays are going to be expensive this year if I'm not careful...


I was at a Verison store (comparison shopping) and they had a demo that looked like that. It was 1" thick for each the screen and keyboard side of the slider, So the whole device was about 2" thick. I went over to find out what the specs on such a beast was, what ports it had etc...

It was an non-working enlarged model of a normal slider cell phone. It did have a working screen to show the add for the phone it was supposed to represent. I felt bad for myself for considering such a monstrosity.
 
2012-12-06 11:43:07 AM

MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.


Stop. When I compared an equivalent Mac to the PC I built last year, it was well over twice as much.
 
2012-12-06 12:06:04 PM

browntimmy: equivalent


This is only possible by cherrypicking which parts you consider equivalents, and which you disregard as unimportant.

I will concede things like "CPU model" and "amount of RAM" are magnitudally more important than "unibody aluminum construction", but it remains that if you tried to match every part that's in a stock Macintosh, the final price won't be less than half.
 
2012-12-06 12:52:28 PM

thurstonxhowell: I don't understand what profit margin has to do with whether or not something is overpriced.


High profit margin in comparison to the rest of the industry = overpriced

MS charging $120 for a $16 item when other companies sell tablet keyboards for as low as $30 means that the Surface keyboard is overpriced.

Of course, if you're absolutely certain that profit margin is unrelated to something being overpriced, go buy some Monster cables, Beats by Dr. Dre headphones, anything from Alienware, or some name-brand printer ink and tell us more.
 
2012-12-06 12:58:38 PM

flaminio: Also, much hay has been made about the initial high cost of the PS3, but if you take the cost of the original Atari 2600 and adjust it for inflation, you get pretty much the same price as the PS3 was at release.


that may be true but at the time of the atari's launch, it did not have two cheaper competitors that did practically the same thing for a cheaper price. the launch of the PS3 at 700\600 bucks was a goddamned mistake and it cost sony this generation, it cost the creator of playstation his job and probably cost a few japanese people their lives if the suicide rate over there is any indication of anything at all. the PS3 should have outright failed.... but sony just kept pumping blood into the corpse until it came back to life. it is a great console but it was vastly overpriced.
 
2012-12-06 01:07:58 PM

Teufelaffe: anything from Alienware


Hey now. My mx11 was in no way overpriced. The thing is awesome.
 
2012-12-06 02:21:22 PM

thurstonxhowell: meanmutton: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

Are you seriously unable to understand his point? If so, that's on you, not him. He made his point quite clear.

I don't understand what profit margin has to do with whether or not something is overpriced. If I want something enough to spend $700 on it and it is priced at $700, then it is priced correctly. The cost of manufacturing doesn't factor into the equation.

Of course, I don't want an iPhone5 enough to spend $700, but lots of people do.




As someone who actually works in consumer electronic product development and management I'd just like to point out that most of what you buy in Best Buy cost 25% of the MSRP to build.

Typically you want to sell the units to the distributor (Best Buy) for 100% profit. That helps cover your tooling and parts, engineering and design, packaging, shipping (from the far east usually) and sales and makes you money.

Best Buy then sells the device for a 100% markup to pay for the rent, sales team, advertising...etc.

I'm not sure where the 15% number came from but it's way out of line. And comparing revenue vs. profit of a company is not a good way to look at development costs as there can be a million other reasons that impact that final # that are completely divorced from the products. Like CEO bonuses, and existing loans, and lawsuits...etc.


Apple does very well because:

1. Volume
2. Low # of products - ties back to 1.
3. Vertical integration - Apple owns elements of the production and distribution
4. Eliminating distributors - a lot of people buy directly from Apple (online or in Apple stores)
5. Because of 1-4 Apple can negotiate more favorable prices / agreements with distributors. I don't know what AT&T makes or Best Buy makes on an Apple sale but it's probably less than they make on selling a Samsung or a Visio. Of course they probably sell more Apple devices too.
 
2012-12-06 02:27:09 PM
The only real way to define overpriced is to look at sales. What one person considers overpriced another may consider worth every penny, and so therefore, the best way to judge it is if a product flops as the people have spoken with their money.
 
2012-12-06 02:41:09 PM

poot_rootbeer: browntimmy: equivalent

This is only possible by cherrypicking which parts you consider equivalents, and which you disregard as unimportant.

I will concede things like "CPU model" and "amount of RAM" are magnitudally more important than "unibody aluminum construction", but it remains that if you tried to match every part that's in a stock Macintosh, the final price won't be less than half.


On the subject of RAM, I have 32 GB in mine. Looking at the apple website, ppgrading from the standard 6GB to 32GB costs an additional $975.
 
2012-12-06 02:42:22 PM

browntimmy: poot_rootbeer: browntimmy: equivalent

This is only possible by cherrypicking which parts you consider equivalents, and which you disregard as unimportant.

I will concede things like "CPU model" and "amount of RAM" are magnitudally more important than "unibody aluminum construction", but it remains that if you tried to match every part that's in a stock Macintosh, the final price won't be less than half.

On the subject of RAM, I have 32 GB in mine. Looking at the apple website, ppgrading from the standard 6GB to 32GB costs an additional $975.


If you buy a Mac Mini (much more comparable to I BUILDZ MAH OWNZ!!!) then you can use the same $100 worth if SDRAM off of Amazon.
 
2012-12-06 02:47:37 PM

fo_sho!: I don't know what AT&T makes or Best Buy makes on an Apple sale but it's probably less than they make on selling a Samsung or a Visio. Of course they probably sell more Apple devices too.


iirc from when I was working at Best Buy, they have around a 5% margin on Apple hardware. It goes as high as 10-15% for Apple-branded accessories.

/That's why I never bought an iPod touch when I worked there even though I wanted one. Even with the "cost + 5%" that employees pay, I would still end up paying ~$195 for a $200 iPod.
 
2012-12-06 04:30:34 PM

poot_rootbeer: browntimmy: equivalent

This is only possible by cherrypicking which parts you consider equivalents, and which you disregard as unimportant.

I will concede things like "CPU model" and "amount of RAM" are magnitudally more important than "unibody aluminum construction", but it remains that if you tried to match every part that's in a stock Macintosh, the final price won't be less than half.


That was my experience.
I bought a Mac Pro 2-3 years ago. Beforehand, I compared it to the equivalent Dell workstation--dual quad-core Xeon, same clock speed, same intel chipset, same ECC RAM, HD size, etc. The Dell was over $5k. The Mac was $3k. And came with a much better aluminum case, etc.
Never gave a shiat about the OS. Immediately formatted it and installed Win7. But got it for 2000 less than I would have with Dell.

Now, if you say Macbooks are overpriced, or iMacs are overpriced, I might agree.
 
2012-12-06 05:34:17 PM

ReverendJasen: That was my experience.


No it wasn't. You priced it from Dell, which is exactly opposite of what they are talking about. If you had priced the individual components from newegg it would indeed be much cheaper than from Apple.
 
2012-12-06 05:55:02 PM

umad: You priced it from Dell, which is exactly opposite of what they are talking about. If you had priced the individual components from newegg it would indeed be much cheaper than from Apple.


Does NewEgg sell a la carte warranties and technical support, to make the comparison equal to a machine that an OEM like Dell or Apple sells to you?

True, if you're building your own you probably don't need them, but they're still a part of the system cost. Going back to my point about cherry picking.
 
2012-12-06 06:36:35 PM

poot_rootbeer: umad: You priced it from Dell, which is exactly opposite of what they are talking about. If you had priced the individual components from newegg it would indeed be much cheaper than from Apple.

Does NewEgg sell a la carte warranties and technical support, to make the comparison equal to a machine that an OEM like Dell or Apple sells to you?

True, if you're building your own you probably don't need them, but they're still a part of the system cost. Going back to my point about cherry picking.


I wasn't taking a stand on the cherry picking bit one way or the other. I was just pointing out that ordering something from Dell is not the same thing as building it yourself, which is what the conversation was about.
 
2012-12-06 06:41:11 PM

umad: I was just pointing out that ordering something from Dell is not the same thing as building it yourself, which is what the conversation was about.


Then why do you insist that I BUILDZ IT!!! is the same thing as ordering from Apple, which *is* what the conversation is about.
 
2012-12-06 07:38:10 PM

Rent Party: umad: I was just pointing out that ordering something from Dell is not the same thing as building it yourself, which is what the conversation was about.

Then why do you insist that I BUILDZ IT!!! is the same thing as ordering from Apple, which *is* what the conversation is about.


The conversation was about how you can build a computer with better hardware than what Apple is selling for much cheaper. This may surprise you, but you can also build a computer with better hardware than what Dell is selling for much cheaper.

So no, building your own computer for less than what Apple charges is not the same thing as ordering a computer from Dell that costs more. I am not surprised that this confuses you. I wouldn't expect anything less from Apple customers.
 
2012-12-06 07:45:31 PM

umad: Rent Party: umad: I was just pointing out that ordering something from Dell is not the same thing as building it yourself, which is what the conversation was about.

Then why do you insist that I BUILDZ IT!!! is the same thing as ordering from Apple, which *is* what the conversation is about.

The conversation was about how you can build a computer with better hardware than what Apple is selling for much cheaper. This may surprise you, but you can also build a computer with better hardware than what Dell is selling for much cheaper.



Well I guess you're right back to "Does NewEgg sell a la carte warranties and technical support, to make the comparison equal to a machine that an OEM like Dell or Apple sells to you?" then, aren't you.

I am not surprised that some clown that thinks bolting together parts to build a PC is some sign of technical savvy can't make that distinction.
 
2012-12-06 07:54:22 PM

Rent Party: umad: Rent Party: umad: I was just pointing out that ordering something from Dell is not the same thing as building it yourself, which is what the conversation was about.

Then why do you insist that I BUILDZ IT!!! is the same thing as ordering from Apple, which *is* what the conversation is about.

The conversation was about how you can build a computer with better hardware than what Apple is selling for much cheaper. This may surprise you, but you can also build a computer with better hardware than what Dell is selling for much cheaper.



Well I guess you're right back to "Does NewEgg sell a la carte warranties and technical support, to make the comparison equal to a machine that an OEM like Dell or Apple sells to you?" then, aren't you.

I am not surprised that some clown that thinks bolting together parts to build a PC is some sign of technical savvy can't make that distinction.


Who the fark cares about a warranty when you can build a completely new machine with the difference you are saving in costs? And if you need their technical support then you have no business telling somebody else that they aren't tech savvy. My tech support is right here and it is free. You tards act like computers are magic or something. Jesus Christ.
 
2012-12-06 07:57:27 PM

umad:

Who the fark cares about a warranty when you can build a completely new machine with the difference you are saving in costs? And if you need their technical support then you have no business telling somebody else that they aren't tech savvy. My tech support is right here and it is free. You tards act like computers are magic or something. Jesus Christ.


No, we act like computers are tools. I know how they farking work. They aren't mysterious, they're ordinary.

Your average 12 year old can put together a PC, and often times they do. Why you think it's so special is a continual source of amazement, but what it really does is tell me how much you *don't* know.
 
2012-12-06 08:01:31 PM

Rent Party: umad:

Who the fark cares about a warranty when you can build a completely new machine with the difference you are saving in costs? And if you need their technical support then you have no business telling somebody else that they aren't tech savvy. My tech support is right here and it is free. You tards act like computers are magic or something. Jesus Christ.

No, we act like computers are tools. I know how they farking work. They aren't mysterious, they're ordinary.

Your average 12 year old can put together a PC, and often times they do. Why you think it's so special is a continual source of amazement, but what it really does is tell me how much you *don't* know.


What the fark are you talking about? You're the idiot who is willing to pay double the cost of something because you are too scared to use it without a warranty and tech support. I never claimed they are special. Like you said, a 12 year old can do it. Why would you pay somebody else a shiatload to do it then? Are you dumber than a 12 year old?

Besides, I didn't even start this build it vs buy mac argument. All I said was that buying a computer from Dell for more money is not the same thing as building one for much much less money. Now piss off.
 
2012-12-06 08:08:06 PM

umad: Rent Party: umad:

Who the fark cares about a warranty when you can build a completely new machine with the difference you are saving in costs? And if you need their technical support then you have no business telling somebody else that they aren't tech savvy. My tech support is right here and it is free. You tards act like computers are magic or something. Jesus Christ.

No, we act like computers are tools. I know how they farking work. They aren't mysterious, they're ordinary.

Your average 12 year old can put together a PC, and often times they do. Why you think it's so special is a continual source of amazement, but what it really does is tell me how much you *don't* know.

What the fark are you talking about? You're the idiot who is willing to pay double the cost of something because you are too scared to use it without a warranty and tech support. I never claimed they are special. Like you said, a 12 year old can do it. Why would you pay somebody else a shiatload to do it then? Are you dumber than a 12 year old?


Because my time is evidently more valuable than yours. I don't build my own hammers and drills, either. Computers are tools I use to do something else. Why you would waste time building something you can just go buy is pretty farking dumb.

Don't you have better things to do with your time?
 
2012-12-06 08:08:29 PM

Rent Party: Does NewEgg sell a la carte warranties and technical support


Why, yes, they do.
 
2012-12-06 08:11:58 PM

Rent Party: umad: Rent Party: umad:

Who the fark cares about a warranty when you can build a completely new machine with the difference you are saving in costs? And if you need their technical support then you have no business telling somebody else that they aren't tech savvy. My tech support is right here and it is free. You tards act like computers are magic or something. Jesus Christ.

No, we act like computers are tools. I know how they farking work. They aren't mysterious, they're ordinary.

Your average 12 year old can put together a PC, and often times they do. Why you think it's so special is a continual source of amazement, but what it really does is tell me how much you *don't* know.

What the fark are you talking about? You're the idiot who is willing to pay double the cost of something because you are too scared to use it without a warranty and tech support. I never claimed they are special. Like you said, a 12 year old can do it. Why would you pay somebody else a shiatload to do it then? Are you dumber than a 12 year old?


Because my time is evidently more valuable than yours. I don't build my own hammers and drills, either. Computers are tools I use to do something else. Why you would waste time building something you can just go buy is pretty farking dumb.

Don't you have better things to do with your time?


It takes me a half hour to build a computer. Another half hour to install the OS. If that saves you $1500 or hell, let's be conservative and make it $1000 then you just made $1000 an hour. I doubt you make that much at your job. I "waste" my time because I'm not an idiot.
 
2012-12-06 08:14:45 PM

Rent Party: Why you would waste spend not much time building something cheaper than you can just go buy is pretty farking dumb smart. You not only spend less money, you know more about the end result, are better able to maintain it, and heaven forbid, might actually get a sense of accomplishment and pride from using something you built yourself.


FTFY
 
2012-12-06 08:14:57 PM

umad:
It takes me a half hour to build a computer. Another half hour to install the OS. If that saves you $1500 or hell, let's be conservative and make it $1000 then you just made $1000 an hour. I doubt you make that much at your job. I "waste" my time because I'm not an idiot.


It takes you half an hour to go buy all the bits and pieces, unpack them, and bolt them together?

You're either really fast, or completely full of shiat.
 
2012-12-06 08:16:19 PM

Teufelaffe: Rent Party: Why you would waste spend not much time building something cheaper than you can just go buy is pretty farking dumb smart. You not only spend less money, you know more about the end result, are better able to maintain it, and heaven forbid, might actually get a sense of accomplishment and pride from using something you built yourself.

FTFY


And that is exactly the kind of shiat I mean. If you get a sense of pride and accomplishment because you put together a PC, you must be living one sad, empty life.
 
2012-12-06 08:19:11 PM

Rent Party: Teufelaffe: Rent Party: Why you would waste spend not much time building something cheaper than you can just go buy is pretty farking dumb smart. You not only spend less money, you know more about the end result, are better able to maintain it, and heaven forbid, might actually get a sense of accomplishment and pride from using something you built yourself.

FTFY

And that is exactly the kind of shiat I mean. If you get a sense of pride and accomplishment because you put together a PC, you must be living one sad, empty life.


I pity you.
 
2012-12-06 08:19:28 PM

Rent Party: umad:
It takes me a half hour to build a computer. Another half hour to install the OS. If that saves you $1500 or hell, let's be conservative and make it $1000 then you just made $1000 an hour. I doubt you make that much at your job. I "waste" my time because I'm not an idiot.

It takes you half an hour to go buy all the bits and pieces, unpack them, and bolt them together?

You're either really fast, or completely full of shiat.


I spend a couple of minutes on newegg and then wait for all of the shiat to show up to my house. Then yes, it takes about an hour to build. I probably don't spend any more time shopping for my parts than you would to spec out your Mac. You don't know what the fark you are talking about. You sound awfully ignorant for someone who claims to "know how they work."
 
2012-12-06 08:21:49 PM

Teufelaffe:
And that is exactly the kind of shiat I mean. If you get a sense of pride and accomplishment because you put together a PC, you must be living one sad, empty life.

I pity you.


And why would that be? Because you know so little about technology that you think bolting a PC together makes you smart? Because you've accomplished so little in your life that doing what a 12 year old can do is a measure of accomplishment?

You're dumb, and that's your own fault. No pity for self inflicted wounds.
 
2012-12-06 08:23:23 PM

umad: Rent Party: umad:
It takes me a half hour to build a computer. Another half hour to install the OS. If that saves you $1500 or hell, let's be conservative and make it $1000 then you just made $1000 an hour. I doubt you make that much at your job. I "waste" my time because I'm not an idiot.

It takes you half an hour to go buy all the bits and pieces, unpack them, and bolt them together?

You're either really fast, or completely full of shiat.

I spend a couple of minutes on newegg and then wait for all of the shiat to show up to my house. Then yes, it takes about an hour to build. I probably don't spend any more time shopping for my parts than you would to spec out your Mac. You don't know what the fark you are talking about. You sound awfully ignorant for someone who claims to "know how they work."


Oh I see, so the couple of days you have to wait doesn't count. I can have a new Mac running about 20 minutes after I decide I want one.

You sound exactly like a guy that thinks screwing one together means he knows how they work. If you actually knew, none of this would interest you.
 
2012-12-06 08:23:24 PM

Rent Party: Teufelaffe: Rent Party: Why you would waste spend not much time building something cheaper than you can just go buy is pretty farking dumb smart. You not only spend less money, you know more about the end result, are better able to maintain it, and heaven forbid, might actually get a sense of accomplishment and pride from using something you built yourself.

FTFY

And that is exactly the kind of shiat I mean. If you get a sense of pride and accomplishment because you put together a PC, you must be living one sad, empty life.


You're such a consumer whore that you're willing to pay double for a computer in order to not have to do something "your average 12 year old" can do, and you have the chutzpah to say other people are living sad, empty lives? That's rich.
 
2012-12-06 08:25:13 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: Rent Party: Teufelaffe: Rent Party: Why you would waste spend not much time building something cheaper than you can just go buy is pretty farking dumb smart. You not only spend less money, you know more about the end result, are better able to maintain it, and heaven forbid, might actually get a sense of accomplishment and pride from using something you built yourself.

FTFY

And that is exactly the kind of shiat I mean. If you get a sense of pride and accomplishment because you put together a PC, you must be living one sad, empty life.

You're such a consumer whore that you're willing to pay double for a computer in order to not have to do something "your average 12 year old" can do, and you have the chutzpah to say other people are living sad, empty lives? That's rich.


I'm a guy that has things to do with his computers. They're just tools. Chest thumping about the pride and accomplishment one feels upon completing such a simple task as screwing a PC together is emblematic of people that have never actually done anything to be proud of.
 
2012-12-06 08:35:45 PM

Rent Party: umad: Rent Party: umad:
It takes me a half hour to build a computer. Another half hour to install the OS. If that saves you $1500 or hell, let's be conservative and make it $1000 then you just made $1000 an hour. I doubt you make that much at your job. I "waste" my time because I'm not an idiot.

It takes you half an hour to go buy all the bits and pieces, unpack them, and bolt them together?

You're either really fast, or completely full of shiat.

I spend a couple of minutes on newegg and then wait for all of the shiat to show up to my house. Then yes, it takes about an hour to build. I probably don't spend any more time shopping for my parts than you would to spec out your Mac. You don't know what the fark you are talking about. You sound awfully ignorant for someone who claims to "know how they work."

Oh I see, so the couple of days you have to wait doesn't count. I can have a new Mac running about 20 minutes after I decide I want one.

You sound exactly like a guy that thinks screwing one together means he knows how they work. If you actually knew, none of this would interest you.


I work with embedded systems, plcs, robots, and autonomous vehicles every farking day. I am farking positive that my understanding of computers puts yours to shame. So just shut the fark up man. You are the perfect example of the typical Apple fanboy. The lengths you will go to defend your toys is pathetic.
 
2012-12-06 08:39:37 PM

Rent Party: Carlo Spicy-Wiener: Rent Party: Teufelaffe: Rent Party: Why you would waste spend not much time building something cheaper than you can just go buy is pretty farking dumb smart. You not only spend less money, you know more about the end result, are better able to maintain it, and heaven forbid, might actually get a sense of accomplishment and pride from using something you built yourself.

FTFY

And that is exactly the kind of shiat I mean. If you get a sense of pride and accomplishment because you put together a PC, you must be living one sad, empty life.

You're such a consumer whore that you're willing to pay double for a computer in order to not have to do something "your average 12 year old" can do, and you have the chutzpah to say other people are living sad, empty lives? That's rich.

I'm a guy that has things to do with his computers. They're just tools. Chest thumping about the pride and accomplishment one feels upon completing such a simple task as screwing a PC together is emblematic of people that have never actually done anything to be proud of.


And your responses here are emblematic of someone who is so incredibly insecure that they think the fact that they buy pre-built computers makes them better than people who build their own and enjoy doing so. I'm with Tufelaffe on this one, you are deserving of pity.
 
2012-12-06 08:46:19 PM

Rent Party: I can have a new Mac running about 20 minutes after I decide I want one.


Either you own a replicator or are completely full of shiat.


Rent Party: And why would that be? Because you know so little about technology that you think bolting a PC together makes you smart? Because you've accomplished so little in your life that doing what a 12 year old can do is a measure of accomplishment?


Choice 1: Spend ~$1000 on a computer that you assemble yourself.
Choice 2: Spend $2000 or more on a computer that is functionally identical, that someone else assembles for you, and get your computer possibly an hour or two faster.

Obviously the "smart" choice between the two is to spend more money. After all, everyone knows that spending money is how you show people how smart you are.
 
2012-12-06 10:24:09 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: Rent Party: Carlo Spicy-Wiener: Rent Party: Teufelaffe: Rent Party: Why you would waste spend not much time building something cheaper than you can just go buy is pretty farking dumb smart. You not only spend less money, you know more about the end result, are better able to maintain it, and heaven forbid, might actually get a sense of accomplishment and pride from using something you built yourself.

FTFY

And that is exactly the kind of shiat I mean. If you get a sense of pride and accomplishment because you put together a PC, you must be living one sad, empty life.

You're such a consumer whore that you're willing to pay double for a computer in order to not have to do something "your average 12 year old" can do, and you have the chutzpah to say other people are living sad, empty lives? That's rich.

I'm a guy that has things to do with his computers. They're just tools. Chest thumping about the pride and accomplishment one feels upon completing such a simple task as screwing a PC together is emblematic of people that have never actually done anything to be proud of.

And your responses here are emblematic of someone who is so incredibly insecure that they think the fact that they buy pre-built computers makes them better than people who build their own and enjoy doing so. I'm with Tufelaffe on this one, you are deserving of pity.


I bet he/she/it proudly goes to Jiffy Lube, while telling people who change their own oil that they lead sad and empty lives.
 
2012-12-06 10:30:18 PM

Teufelaffe: Rent Party: I can have a new Mac running about 20 minutes after I decide I want one.

Either you own a replicator or are completely full of shiat.


Rent Party: And why would that be? Because you know so little about technology that you think bolting a PC together makes you smart? Because you've accomplished so little in your life that doing what a 12 year old can do is a measure of accomplishment?

Choice 1: Spend ~$1000 on a computer that you assemble yourself.
Choice 2: Spend $2000 or more on a computer that is functionally identical, that someone else assembles for you, and get your computer possibly an hour or two faster.

Obviously the "smart" choice between the two is to spend more money. After all, everyone knows that spending money is how you show people how smart you are.


But he said his time is valuable. As evidenced by how long he's spent posting on Fark.
 
2012-12-06 11:27:04 PM

browntimmy: Teufelaffe: Rent Party: I can have a new Mac running about 20 minutes after I decide I want one.

Either you own a replicator or are completely full of shiat.


Rent Party: And why would that be? Because you know so little about technology that you think bolting a PC together makes you smart? Because you've accomplished so little in your life that doing what a 12 year old can do is a measure of accomplishment?

Choice 1: Spend ~$1000 on a computer that you assemble yourself.
Choice 2: Spend $2000 or more on a computer that is functionally identical, that someone else assembles for you, and get your computer possibly an hour or two faster.

Obviously the "smart" choice between the two is to spend more money. After all, everyone knows that spending money is how you show people how smart you are.

But he said his time is valuable. As evidenced by how long he's spent posting on Fark.


His time is so valuable that he pays other people to post on Fark for him.
 
2012-12-07 02:08:56 AM

Teufelaffe: Choice 1: Spend ~$1000 on a computer that you assemble yourself.
Choice 2: Spend $2000 or more on a computer that is functionally identical, that someone else assembles for you, and get your computer possibly an hour or two faster.


Where are those numbers from? Your butt?

Here, I'll do an experiment right now. I'll select a Mac Pro configuration from apple.com, and then I'll go price out all the most similar components at newegg and add them up.

Baseline Mac Pro : $2499

Intel Quad-Core Xeon CPU @ 3.2Ghz : $237.99
3 x 2GB 1066MHz DDR3 ECC SDRAM : $53.99
1TB 7200rpm SATA 3.0Gb/s hard drive (bare) : $79.99
ATI Radeon 5770 1GB GPU : $86.99 (out of stock, because all the 5770 stock left over from a few years ago is sitting in Apple's parts bins now)
double-layer CD/DVD reader/writer : $17.99
Apple Magic Mouse : $67.99
Apple standard keyboard : $69.99
Asus workstation motherboard with 4 card slots : $228.99
aluminum ATX mid-tower case : $89.99
300+W ATX power supply : $29.99

Already we're approaching $1000, and I haven't even tackled Firewire, Bluetooth, 802.11, dual Gigabit Ethernet, OS, warranty, tech support, or any of the other features I know the Mac has but will have to spend a lot of time reading product spec as I assemble my frankenbox. And I've already spent more than half an hour on research for this post, and my time is valuable.

My point is weakened here by the fact that the Mac Pro is an aging product that wouldn't meet my own computing needs very well.
 
Xai
2012-12-07 04:58:45 AM

poot_rootbeer: Teufelaffe: Choice 1: Spend ~$1000 on a computer that you assemble yourself.
Choice 2: Spend $2000 or more on a computer that is functionally identical, that someone else assembles for you, and get your computer possibly an hour or two faster.

Where are those numbers from? Your butt?

Here, I'll do an experiment right now. I'll select a Mac Pro configuration from apple.com, and then I'll go price out all the most similar components at newegg and add them up.

Baseline Mac Pro : $2499

Intel Quad-Core Xeon CPU @ 3.2Ghz : $237.99
3 x 2GB 1066MHz DDR3 ECC SDRAM : $53.99
1TB 7200rpm SATA 3.0Gb/s hard drive (bare) : $79.99
ATI Radeon 5770 1GB GPU : $86.99 (out of stock, because all the 5770 stock left over from a few years ago is sitting in Apple's parts bins now)
double-layer CD/DVD reader/writer : $17.99
Apple Magic Mouse : $67.99
Apple standard keyboard : $69.99
Asus workstation motherboard with 4 card slots : $228.99
aluminum ATX mid-tower case : $89.99
300+W ATX power supply : $29.99

Already we're approaching $1000, and I haven't even tackled Firewire, Bluetooth, 802.11, dual Gigabit Ethernet, OS, warranty, tech support, or any of the other features I know the Mac has but will have to spend a lot of time reading product spec as I assemble my frankenbox. And I've already spent more than half an hour on research for this post, and my time is valuable.

My point is weakened here by the fact that the Mac Pro is an aging product that wouldn't meet my own computing needs very well.


you're only getting close to $1000 because you bought a genuine apple mouse/keyboard and a $230 motherboard - you could have saved about $150 if you got non-apple peripherals and you can easily get a motherboard for under $150 too.
I'll also point out that the firewire, ethernet, warranty are already included and a wireless/bluetooth card wouldn't be more than $50. Given that windows 8 is surprisingly cheap these days, we've got $925 including windows 8 and an extra $137.98 for the overpriced apple peripherals.

Realisticly you're still over $1000 better off building it yourself. I agree it is nice to have it all done for you and there is nothing wrong with the mac, but mighty expensive to do it that way.
 
2012-12-08 06:50:48 PM

brigid_fitch: Where are Word Processors? They were huge in the mid- late-80s. "Hey, I know--let's make a computer than only does word processing, using proprietary computer disks & proprietary ribbon cartridges for the printer! And we'll charge only a couple hundred dollars less than an actual computer!"

/Yes, ribbon cartridges. Like a typewriter


Ahem, those are going to be worth a lot some day
 
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