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(CNBC)   Sheldon Adelson tried to buy the Presidency for about $150,000,000. This month he'll save $150,000,000 in taxes by paying himself an early dividend. You do the math   (cnbc.com) divider line 303
    More: Obvious, Micky Arison, free cash flow, share repurchase, special dividend  
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14377 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2012 at 6:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-05 07:29:46 AM  

patent holder: Alphax: coffee smells good: I see the article doesn't mention the god of the far left, COSTCO. They're borrowing $3B so they can pay a special one time $7/ dividend ahead of the Obama Care tax increase.

Ahead of the what?

Part of the almost tripling in taxes on dividend in 2013 has to do with the new taxes from the ACA (Obama Care) that kick in.


I see no mention of the ACA in the article.
 
2012-12-05 07:30:32 AM  

SomeAmerican: Debeo Summa Credo: Alphax: 'Dividend Cliff'.. so their ability to suck massive amounts of capital out of the economy would be slightly slowed, once the 'temporary' Bush tax cuts expire. They make it sound like a bad thing.

"slightly slowed"? Tax rates on dividends will nearly triple next year.

The right approach would be to treat dividends as income, and cover them under the same tax code as income tax. The current approach of favoring some revenue over others distorts the market.


Income from corporate investments is treated differently because it is taxed twice. Your way (ordinary tax rates for dividends) would be appropriate if you allowed companies to deduct dividends from taxable income.
 
2012-12-05 07:31:33 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: SomeAmerican: Debeo Summa Credo: Alphax: 'Dividend Cliff'.. so their ability to suck massive amounts of capital out of the economy would be slightly slowed, once the 'temporary' Bush tax cuts expire. They make it sound like a bad thing.

"slightly slowed"? Tax rates on dividends will nearly triple next year.

The right approach would be to treat dividends as income, and cover them under the same tax code as income tax. The current approach of favoring some revenue over others distorts the market.

Income from corporate investments is treated differently because it is taxed twice. Your way (ordinary tax rates for dividends) would be appropriate if you allowed companies to deduct dividends from taxable income.


I'm also fine with allowing that deduction.
 
2012-12-05 07:32:29 AM  
But if we do X, they'll just do Y, so we shouldn't even be talking about any kind of reform, no matter how small, because there's really nothing we can do.
 
2012-12-05 07:32:44 AM  

Alphax: patent holder: Alphax: coffee smells good: I see the article doesn't mention the god of the far left, COSTCO. They're borrowing $3B so they can pay a special one time $7/ dividend ahead of the Obama Care tax increase.

Ahead of the what?

Part of the almost tripling in taxes on dividend in 2013 has to do with the new taxes from the ACA (Obama Care) that kick in.

I see no mention of the ACA in the article.


Yeah, he said TFA doesn't mention Costco. But companies are paying dividends now to avoid ACA taxes (and also hikes if the bush cuts expire). It's smart.
 
2012-12-05 07:34:17 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: taxed twice.


My salary is taxed many times. Then I can spend it and it usually gets taxed at least one more time. But taxing dividends "twice" is HORRIBLE.
 
2012-12-05 07:36:44 AM  
Debeo, they're not gonna fark you OR give you money..
 
2012-12-05 07:36:52 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: SomeAmerican: Debeo Summa Credo: Alphax: 'Dividend Cliff'.. so their ability to suck massive amounts of capital out of the economy would be slightly slowed, once the 'temporary' Bush tax cuts expire. They make it sound like a bad thing.

"slightly slowed"? Tax rates on dividends will nearly triple next year.

The right approach would be to treat dividends as income, and cover them under the same tax code as income tax. The current approach of favoring some revenue over others distorts the market.

I'm cool with this. How about long term vs short term gains?


I'd still treat it all as income. I'd rather not start trying to create incentives for people to earn certain kinds of income, as that's a slippery slope that will take us right back where we are.

... and as long as I've the wishing crown on, I'd follow this by eliminating tax deductions, while adjusting the brackets and rates to try to keep the amount that most people pay the same.
 
2012-12-05 07:37:05 AM  

coffee smells good: I see the article doesn't mention the god of the far left, COSTCO. They're borrowing $3B so they can pay a special one time $7/ dividend ahead of the Obama Care tax increase.


Wait, what?
 
2012-12-05 07:37:41 AM  

GoodyearPimp: Debeo Summa Credo: taxed twice.

My salary is taxed many times. Then I can spend it and it usually gets taxed at least one more time. But taxing dividends "twice" is HORRIBLE.


No it's not. You've been misled or you misunderstand. When your employer pays your salary, they deduct your salary from taxable income. Your salary is taxed at your level alone, your employer is not taxed on it.
 
2012-12-05 07:38:41 AM  

GoodyearPimp: Debeo Summa Credo: taxed twice.

My salary is taxed many times. Then I can spend it and it usually gets taxed at least one more time. But taxing dividends "twice" is HORRIBLE.


assets.amuniversal.com
 
2012-12-05 07:38:47 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: SomeAmerican: Debeo Summa Credo: Alphax: 'Dividend Cliff'.. so their ability to suck massive amounts of capital out of the economy would be slightly slowed, once the 'temporary' Bush tax cuts expire. They make it sound like a bad thing.

"slightly slowed"? Tax rates on dividends will nearly triple next year.

The right approach would be to treat dividends as income, and cover them under the same tax code as income tax. The current approach of favoring some revenue over others distorts the market.

Income from corporate investments is treated differently because it is taxed twice. Your way (ordinary tax rates for dividends) would be appropriate if you allowed companies to deduct dividends from taxable income.


Works for me.
 
2012-12-05 07:38:53 AM  
Why isn't this foreskin-come-to-life in court answering bribery charges?
 
2012-12-05 07:39:50 AM  

EyeballKid: Why isn't this foreskin-come-to-life in court answering bribery charges?


It's one of those legal crimes.
 
2012-12-05 07:39:57 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Your way (ordinary tax rates for dividends) would be appropriate if you allowed companies to deduct dividends from taxable income.


Nothing requires corporations to pay out dividends. Indeed there are plenty that don't.
 
2012-12-05 07:40:47 AM  

SomeAmerican: Debeo Summa Credo: SomeAmerican: Debeo Summa Credo: Alphax: 'Dividend Cliff'.. so their ability to suck massive amounts of capital out of the economy would be slightly slowed, once the 'temporary' Bush tax cuts expire. They make it sound like a bad thing.

"slightly slowed"? Tax rates on dividends will nearly triple next year.

The right approach would be to treat dividends as income, and cover them under the same tax code as income tax. The current approach of favoring some revenue over others distorts the market.

Income from corporate investments is treated differently because it is taxed twice. Your way (ordinary tax rates for dividends) would be appropriate if you allowed companies to deduct dividends from taxable income.

Works for me.


Book it. Done.

Fiscal crisis solved. Let's all go get drunk and hire some hookers.
 
2012-12-05 07:41:17 AM  

Mentalpatient87: Debeo, they're not gonna fark you OR give you money..


So I should join the farklib money grab as well? "hey, that guy has more stuff than me! Let's take it!"

You deadbeats can sit around all day in a circle jerk and complain that others have earned more than you and figure out ways to take it. Have fun.
 
2012-12-05 07:42:13 AM  
This is as good a place to ask as any.

Does anyone know if Obama's proposal for the budget allows the Bush tax cut rate on Capital Gains and Dividends to expire? The 'news' only seems to report on the income tax rates and spending cuts. They just ignore one of the biggest parts of this whole debacle.
 
2012-12-05 07:42:37 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: SomeAmerican: Debeo Summa Credo: SomeAmerican: Debeo Summa Credo: Alphax: 'Dividend Cliff'.. so their ability to suck massive amounts of capital out of the economy would be slightly slowed, once the 'temporary' Bush tax cuts expire. They make it sound like a bad thing.

"slightly slowed"? Tax rates on dividends will nearly triple next year.

The right approach would be to treat dividends as income, and cover them under the same tax code as income tax. The current approach of favoring some revenue over others distorts the market.

Income from corporate investments is treated differently because it is taxed twice. Your way (ordinary tax rates for dividends) would be appropriate if you allowed companies to deduct dividends from taxable income.

Works for me.

Book it. Done.

Fiscal crisis solved. Let's all go get drunk and hire some hookers.


Sweet. On my way!
 
2012-12-05 07:42:38 AM  
farklib


Holy farking cats, you are dumb.
 
2012-12-05 07:43:07 AM  
Re: "ACA taxes"

"A new Net Investment Income Tax goes into effect starting in 2013. The 3.8 percent Net Investment Income Tax applies to individuals, estates and trusts that have certain investment income above certain threshold amounts." (source: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Affordable-Care-Act-Tax-Provisions)

If you're asking us to be upset because Adelson has to pay an extra 4% on his 1.2 billion (with a B) dollars, that he decided to pay himself out of the coffers of the company that he is the CEO of, then you're gonna have a bad time.
 
2012-12-05 07:45:07 AM  

untaken_name: I assume everyone who thinks people should pay more taxes has already sent in their voluntary contributions to the IRS. They'll let you pay as much as you want, you know.


Yawn.
 
2012-12-05 07:46:36 AM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: This is as good a place to ask as any.

Does anyone know if Obama's proposal for the budget allows the Bush tax cut rate on Capital Gains and Dividends to expire? The 'news' only seems to report on the income tax rates and spending cuts. They just ignore one of the biggest parts of this whole debacle.


They will expire as well, as they are part of the Bush tax cuts.
 
2012-12-05 07:48:26 AM  
So they make some craven, but expected, moves to preserve and protect as much of their precious, precious money. Nothing will change the fact that Adelson and his reprehensible ilk wasted a (fractional, to them) fortune on Romney, and before that, the Primary Crazies.
 
2012-12-05 07:48:57 AM  

Jake Havechek: Another asshole born on third who thinks he hit a triple.

The rich in America have it pretty good. Look at the tax rates in England, for example.


yeah the rest of the world looks at us in amazement. it's like a bus full of people letting the retard drive.
they see a huge debt,historically low tax rates. and they say can't these morons figure out the solution to the problem?
why are people in tri corner hats defending the billionaires who are bleeding them dry?
 
2012-12-05 07:49:14 AM  

Vertdang: GoodyearPimp: Debeo Summa Credo: taxed twice.

My salary is taxed many times. Then I can spend it and it usually gets taxed at least one more time. But taxing dividends "twice" is HORRIBLE.


I love when people post that cartoon, as it proves my point, contrary to what the poster is thinking.

Hint: count how many times the income of the plumbing business is taxed before it gets in the pockets of owners, likewise the record store business and the bank. One of these things is not like the others.
 
2012-12-05 07:50:31 AM  

EyeballKid: Why isn't this foreskin-come-to-life in court answering bribery charges?


America or China? Attempting to buy a President is perfectly legal, but as of the last time I checked, it's only a matter of time until he's arrested over his Chinese dealings.
 
2012-12-05 07:52:16 AM  
bazinga
 
2012-12-05 07:52:59 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Debeo Summa Credo: Your way (ordinary tax rates for dividends) would be appropriate if you allowed companies to deduct dividends from taxable income.

Nothing requires corporations to pay out dividends. Indeed there are plenty that don't.


How would you expect investors to get earnings out of their investments, absent dividends?

Would you be on board with deductibility of dividends, so long as dividends and cap gains were taxable at ordinary rates?
 
2012-12-05 07:55:02 AM  
that's okay, he'll pay more next year and every year after that.
 
2012-12-05 07:56:16 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: jayhawk88: But I was told that CEO's used all that extra money to plow right back into their businesses!

But I was told companies are just "sitting on" that money (whatever that means). These special dividends should be great because it means companies actually have to go to the vault or mattress or wherever these vast hoards of cash are supposedly being sat on and put them back in the economy.


Good for the economies of Luxembourg, Switzerland or the Cayman Islands where these guys keep their money. They wouldn't want any Reagan trickle down from banks here where it might fall on 47%er.
 
2012-12-05 08:00:21 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Vertdang: GoodyearPimp: Debeo Summa Credo: taxed twice.

My salary is taxed many times. Then I can spend it and it usually gets taxed at least one more time. But taxing dividends "twice" is HORRIBLE.

I love when people post that cartoon, as it proves my point, contrary to what the poster is thinking.

Hint: count how many times the income of the plumbing business is taxed before it gets in the pockets of owners, likewise the record store business and the bank. One of these things is not like the others.


5 times before it gets to the bank owners. so your argument is that 5 times is bad, but 6 is DEATH OF AMERICA?

/one of these things is EXACTLY like the others.
 
2012-12-05 08:00:53 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: WhyteRaven74: Debeo Summa Credo: "slightly slowed"? Tax rates on dividends will nearly triple next year.

Well then, perhaps the money that goes to dividends can go to something more useful, like employee salaries and capital improvements.

Instead of going to the owners of the farking company, who, you know, are farking entitled to the earnings. Unless you are posting from one of the two countries where communism hasn't collapsed yet.

/besides, in reality companies will just go back to using earnings to buy back stock once the new tax rates are in, instead of paying dividends.


I think he was critiquing this idea that taxes being structured to favor financial investment and lower income tax rates on upper income individuals are good for the economy because they encourage job creation. If anything, we've seen that such policies have lead to increased focus on short-term profits over capital investment by firms because the marginal value of each dollar taken out of the company is higher. It's true that the personal profits don't exist in a vacuum and that personal consumption by the stockholder/owner will stimulate the economy, but the marginal propensity to consume of the investor class means the economic stimulus of these policies is much less than virtually any other policy that has been proposed.

You can make the case that taxes should be lower for the rich than they will be under the law as it is currently written on objectivist grounds or make a moral case, but the "if we eliminated capital gains taxes and cut the top marginal tax bracket to 28% unemployment would drop like a stone" argument doesn't accurately reflect the incentives such policies realisticly provide people.
 
2012-12-05 08:01:51 AM  

LarryDan43: Debeo Summa Credo: jayhawk88: But I was told that CEO's used all that extra money to plow right back into their businesses!

But I was told companies are just "sitting on" that money (whatever that means). These special dividends should be great because it means companies actually have to go to the vault or mattress or wherever these vast hoards of cash are supposedly being sat on and put them back in the economy.

Good for the economies of Luxembourg, Switzerland or the Cayman Islands where these guys keep their money. They wouldn't want any Reagan trickle down from banks here where it might fall on 47%er.


Cripes. Do you think every dollar deposited in a cayman islands bank account stays in the cayman islands? Do the banks there use them exclusively to finance small business loans to the people that sell trinkets in every corner in the Caribbean?
 
2012-12-05 08:11:23 AM  

Jake Havechek: Dont fool yourself into the misguided belief that the rich aren't paying their "fair share".

And their money in the Caymen Islands is creating so many jobs in America!



Like all of George Soros' money, right?


Oh, I forgot. He creates jobs for rent-a-mob protestors and non-profit non-political tax exempt foundations that always suppor left wing causes.
 
2012-12-05 08:11:33 AM  
The bootstrap tugging by these Job Creators is EPIC!
 
2012-12-05 08:12:43 AM  

Roy_G_Biv: Like all of George Soros' money, right?


DRINK!
 
2012-12-05 08:15:26 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: LarryDan43: Debeo Summa Credo: jayhawk88: But I was told that CEO's used all that extra money to plow right back into their businesses!

But I was told companies are just "sitting on" that money (whatever that means). These special dividends should be great because it means companies actually have to go to the vault or mattress or wherever these vast hoards of cash are supposedly being sat on and put them back in the economy.

Good for the economies of Luxembourg, Switzerland or the Cayman Islands where these guys keep their money. They wouldn't want any Reagan trickle down from banks here where it might fall on 47%er.

Cripes. Do you think every dollar deposited in a cayman islands bank account stays in the cayman islands? Do the banks there use them exclusively to finance small business loans to the people that sell trinkets in every corner in the Caribbean?


Yes. It does. I know that's and exaggeration, but much of it lies there in tax free accounts being serviced by the valient and numerous law firms of the Caymans. Why don't us libs like lawyers in the Caymans? They're just middle class people who benefit from trickle down economics!
 
2012-12-05 08:17:22 AM  
George Soros
George Soros!
 
2012-12-05 08:21:06 AM  
What the FARK! A successful business man making a shrewed business move to save money? We can not have that in America! It will ruin this country!
 
2012-12-05 08:21:10 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: No it's not. You've been misled or you misunderstand.


Fact shields are at 100%, keptin!
 
2012-12-05 08:22:51 AM  
Awesome - that's $150 million Libs will not get to encourage women to have children out of wedlock who they will raise to kill me.
 
2012-12-05 08:24:24 AM  

Phil Moskowitz: Money can't buy health.


It sure can move you up on the organ waiting list...
 
2012-12-05 08:24:54 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Jake Havechek: Another asshole born on third who thinks he hit a triple.

The rich in America have it pretty good. Look at the tax rates in England, for example.

In other words, "Gimme".

/so much bitter envy in this thread


Wait 5 years and tell me more about "bitter envy", bud.
 
2012-12-05 08:26:36 AM  

beta_plus: Awesome - that's $150 million Libs will not get to encourage women to have children out of wedlock who they will raise to kill me.


"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."

-- Pat Robertson, 1992
 
2012-12-05 08:27:38 AM  
After this election, can we at least agree that money in elections is not a problem? This dude (and others like him) spent tens of millions of dollars and got...nothing.
 
2012-12-05 08:30:23 AM  
Debeo Summa Credo:

Again, IOW "gimme"

I pay a higher share of my income in taxes than Mitt Romney, you insensitive clod.
 
2012-12-05 08:30:53 AM  

Jake Havechek: Another asshole born on third who thinks he hit a triple.

The rich in America have it pretty good. Look at the tax rates in England, for example.


The taxes in England are much flatter. The rich pay less of a total share. The vat is regressive.

So you are arguing for a less progressive tax code. Want to make sure you know what you are saying. The tax base is much broader in most of Europe.
 
2012-12-05 08:31:03 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Here we go. Nothing like a good class warfare thread.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-05 08:32:44 AM  

Jake Havechek: George Soros!


i49.tinypic.com
 
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