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(Houston Press)   Teacher to 5-year-olds: There is no Santa Claus   (blogs.houstonpress.com) divider line 544
    More: Asinine, Santa Claus, Good Lord, Susan, Polar Express, teachers  
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10758 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2012 at 7:45 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



544 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-04 11:56:48 PM  

WhippingBoy: Let's play my favorite game:

"Who here actually has children?"


The ones not acting like joyless farkwits I'd imagine

/raises hand
 
rka
2012-12-04 11:58:55 PM  

dopekitty74: I'm atheist, but still let my kids have the magic of santa belief when they were kids, right along with the tooth fairy and easter bunny. Sooner or later they find out that its not real, and usually are not traumatized by this realization.


Usually?

So 2 out of 3 ain't bad amirite? I'd take those odds in Vegas.

I recommend my sisters don't use car seats with their kids. Usually nothing bad happens.
 
2012-12-05 12:00:28 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Considering the shiatstorm of WTF surrounding the American education system these days, who knows what to think. Teachers are supposed to teach, but people are mad about what they do and don't teach, we can't "leave any child behind", and teachers can't teach reality anymore. Maybe it makes sense to you, but not to me.

I'll do that while you cry and whine and act like a snotty little brat toward the rest of the world for no reason other than NYAH NYAH NYAH.


it's so difficult for supposedly intelligent educators to know their place! shiat, My Book of Vogon Poetry didn't cover whether it is right or wrong for me to tell 5 year old kindergarten students there is no Santa Claus...

You'll do what, by the way? You didn't really specify anything that you'll be doing. Are we supposed to surmise that your implication is that you'll continue to act like an asshat?
OK, fair enough. You do that while people who aren't morons will continue understanding the difference between right and wrong and overstepping one's boundaries as an educator of very small children.
 
2012-12-05 12:03:57 AM  

skullkrusher: Keizer_Ghidorah: Considering the shiatstorm of WTF surrounding the American education system these days, who knows what to think. Teachers are supposed to teach, but people are mad about what they do and don't teach, we can't "leave any child behind", and teachers can't teach reality anymore. Maybe it makes sense to you, but not to me.

I'll do that while you cry and whine and act like a snotty little brat toward the rest of the world for no reason other than NYAH NYAH NYAH.

it's so difficult for supposedly intelligent educators to know their place! shiat, My Book of Vogon Poetry didn't cover whether it is right or wrong for me to tell 5 year old kindergarten students there is no Santa Claus...

You'll do what, by the way? You didn't really specify anything that you'll be doing. Are we supposed to surmise that your implication is that you'll continue to act like an asshat?
OK, fair enough. You do that while people who aren't morons will continue understanding the difference between right and wrong and overstepping one's boundaries as an educator of very small children.


I like that. How dare those peasants try to teach my children about reality, they should know their place! Such low and feeble things, they should be honored to even look at my kids!

Hey, don't want teachers teaching your kids, them home-school them. Gotta protect them from the real world.
 
2012-12-05 12:08:10 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: I like that. How dare those peasants try to teach my children about reality, they should know their place! Such low and feeble things, they should be honored to even look at my kids!


hehe, you are a parody of a stereotype, right? This is performance art?

Keizer_Ghidorah: Hey, don't want teachers teaching your kids, them home-school them. Gotta protect them from the real world.


I am not going to homeschool my kids. They'd turn out to be terribly adjusted, strange people who'd do things like argue that it is cool for a teacher to tell a 5 year old there's no Santa.
 
2012-12-05 12:10:48 AM  

skullkrusher: Keizer_Ghidorah: I like that. How dare those peasants try to teach my children about reality, they should know their place! Such low and feeble things, they should be honored to even look at my kids!

hehe, you are a parody of a stereotype, right? This is performance art?

Keizer_Ghidorah: Hey, don't want teachers teaching your kids, them home-school them. Gotta protect them from the real world.

I am not going to homeschool my kids. They'd turn out to be terribly adjusted, strange people who'd do things like argue that it is cool for a teacher to tell a 5 year old there's no Santa.


Nope, just emulating you.

Sorry if how I think makes you angry, but a school is supposed to teach children about the real world and reality.
 
2012-12-05 12:16:20 AM  
images4.wikia.nocookie.net
Truth
 
2012-12-05 12:17:09 AM  
Ah, yes, this annual thread. And my annual response.

Christmas in our home has always been first and foremost a religious holiday. All the other "stuff" is secondary to that. Fun, but secondary.

I told my kids from a very early age that there once WAS a Bishop, a holy man named Saint Nikolaus, who went around town at Christmas giving charitable gifts, including some toys. After he died, people continued his giving tradition as a way to honor him and to celebrate our Lord's birthday. Saint Nick was shortened over the years to "Santa Claus". "Santa" means "saint". So Santa WAS a real person, in historical times. But he's not alive today.

People enjoy playing the part of "Santa" because it's a wonderful feeling to give to others. And everybody should get a chance to dress up and play at being "Santa". Kids like to play "secret santa". But over the years, people who make money by selling things, and people who are not particularly religious, have kind of borrowed Santa's identity and story, and made up other myths and fake history about him, as entertainment and as a way to sell things. The original Santa didn't look very much like the fat man in the red suit, that was just a popular painting by an artist selling soda pop, and everybody copied that image after that. They made up new stories, because making up stories is fun. There is no north pole workshop, no flying deer. No elves. It's people that make and give the gifts to each other, to show their love for one another on the birthday of Jesus, and they just like to say "santa" brought it because it's fun, or because they're shy. But there WAS a real Santa, once, and giving people gifts was his thing. And you can be like him and give to others to make them happy. You keep Santa's tradition alive.

None of my kids have become tower snipers yet, the oldest is almost twenty and it didn't warp him, that I can see. I think my way of leveling with my kids was the best way, but I'm not for imposing my approach on any other parent: that should be their own responsibility, and a teacher or caregiver should honor that boundary, at least until age ten. This world is tough enough without robbing kid's innocence on a whim. Like the Speech from "Uncle Buck", when he chews out the school principal.

I DO think what's good about my method is that it is logically consistent and that the kids can look it up for themselves and see I never lied to them. The forced pretending, when the kid has already figured it out for themselves, is just awkward and painful all-around.
 
2012-12-05 12:18:47 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: skullkrusher: Keizer_Ghidorah: I like that. How dare those peasants try to teach my children about reality, they should know their place! Such low and feeble things, they should be honored to even look at my kids!

hehe, you are a parody of a stereotype, right? This is performance art?

Keizer_Ghidorah: Hey, don't want teachers teaching your kids, them home-school them. Gotta protect them from the real world.

I am not going to homeschool my kids. They'd turn out to be terribly adjusted, strange people who'd do things like argue that it is cool for a teacher to tell a 5 year old there's no Santa.

Nope, just emulating you.

Sorry if how I think makes you angry, but a school is supposed to teach children about the real world and reality.


by intentionally taking a comment as an offensive statement even though it was clearly not? Says more about you than me.

I think we should replace Valentine's Day projects for mom and dad with explanations of how love is merely a neural chemical response to their parents. Ya know, for reality and stuff.

Don't teach, don't breed.
 
2012-12-05 12:22:05 AM  

WhippingBoy: Let's play my favorite game:

"Who here actually has children?"


Bingo. I love all the people who are saying "Well, when I have kids, I won't ever lie to them". It's almost adorable.

I yield the rest of my time to Mr. Louie CK.


"Daddy, does the earth go around the sun?"
"Yeah."
"Does it do it all the time?"
"Yeah."
"Will the Earth always go around the Sun, forever?"
"Well no, at some point the sun is going to explode."
(starts crying)
"Oh honey, this is not going to happen until you and everyone you know has been dead for a very long time!"
 
2012-12-05 12:37:37 AM  
So the hero tag is on vacation subby? I feel the world would be a much better place if we didn't perpetuate these seemingly innocuous lies.
 
2012-12-05 12:50:02 AM  

safetycap: wambu: You can be a douchebag all you want to adults, but leave the kids the fark alone.

[welcometofark.jpg] 

🐍🐊🐉🐲🌋


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-05 12:53:38 AM  

TwowheelinTim: So the hero tag is on vacation subby? I feel the world would be a much better place if we didn't perpetuate these seemingly innocuous lies.


Careful...you might be a joyless farkwit

skullkrusher: The ones not acting like joyless farkwits I'd imagine


Apparently misleading kids is where the real joy is.
 
2012-12-05 12:54:02 AM  

skullkrusher: ibsalamander: If you believe in the Bible as the infallible word of God, then I can, in fact, prove that He doesn't exist. "In the beginning, God created Heaven and Earth..." etc. It's clear that according to Genesis the Earth was created before the Sun and before the stars -- a testable hypothesis.

actually all you can prove that the Bible is not the infallible word of God in that case.


My bad. I was under the impression that we were talking specifically about the Christian God, as described in the Holy Bible. It would be much harder to disprove a god myth without specific observable claims. My point was this: some Christians criticize atheists because we can't prove a negative; but what gives them the right to claim the upper hand in an argument based on (faulty) logic, when there are massive logical inconsistencies with their philosophy starting on page one of their official creed?

Sigh... why do I always fall for this troll?
 
2012-12-05 12:56:49 AM  

Frederick: Apparently misleading kids is where the real joy is.


yep - sometimes I even pretend I can't find my son when he's hiding his eyes only to surprise him with a nonsense word that sounds something like "Peek-a-boo!" when he uncovers them to his great delight.
 
2012-12-05 12:57:48 AM  

ibsalamander: what gives them the right to claim the upper hand in an argument based on (faulty) logic, when there are massive logical inconsistencies with their philosophy starting on page one of their official creed?


nothing.

ibsalamander: Sigh... why do I always fall for this troll?


which?
 
2012-12-05 01:27:29 AM  
What are you people talking about? Santa is real. Why wouldnt he be real? He brings presents every year, where do you figure they come from? Some magical box store that breaks into your house?
 
2012-12-05 01:32:38 AM  
Has anyone actually read the article? What, precisely, is an "echool"? "The mom emailed a complaint to the principal, who told he that she has reprimanded the teacher and given her the 'tools to deal with this situation' in the future."

Seriously - this article is crap and you should feel like crap for falling for it.
 
2012-12-05 01:32:42 AM  

Krieghund: DreamyAltarBoy: It seems I was born to piss on your fantasies.

[weirdest boner.jpeg]


I had begun to fear that this wouldn't go there.
 
2012-12-05 01:35:35 AM  
It's my life wish to one day bury the seeds of many lies in my children. It'll entertain me. That's why they exist.
 
2012-12-05 01:37:20 AM  
I'm willing to bet that most of the responses to this story belong to one of two camps: Those with children, defending the Santa Claus tradition, and those without children, who have more of a zero tolerance for what they perceive as dishonesty.

Kids under 5 or so live in a completely different world, one filled with whimsy, where animals and inanimate objects come alive. If you were to completely remove all fictional, fantastic and invented or imagined objects from that world it would be a very different and much uglier place. Just live to be over 50 (and have children) if you need proof of exactly how much pain comes to us all, eventually. No need to unnecessarily hasten the process.

It is interesting though, when I think about it, just how much of that fictional world of early childhood is designed by adults to teach, motivate, and manipulate children. You may not listen to your mother, but when a purple dinosaur tells you something, you can believe it, because adults can't see him (I think -- my kid is grown up so I don't know children's characters post Barney). And Paddington Bear, Poo Bear, and Curious George are all obvious surrogate little children, whose tales of right and wrong are rendered more palatable by the cuddly nature of the perp, and the certainty that the children's character is essentially good, just a victim of misguided choices.
 
2012-12-05 01:42:21 AM  

skullkrusher: ibsalamander: what gives them the right to claim the upper hand in an argument based on (faulty) logic, when there are massive logical inconsistencies with their philosophy starting on page one of their official creed?

nothing.

ibsalamander: Sigh... why do I always fall for this troll?

which?


atheism is a religion because it's based on faith in the non-existence of (their) God.
 
2012-12-05 01:50:16 AM  

ibsalamander: atheism is a religion because it's based on faith in the non-existence of (their) God.


That is just stupid and you should feel stupid for having said it.
 
2012-12-05 02:02:58 AM  
happy feast os st nicholas ya freakin heathens!
 
2012-12-05 02:11:03 AM  
The mom says that the principal was "horrified" by what the teachers had done, and adds that the is ordinarily wonderful Austin.

t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-05 02:12:22 AM  
I never believed in Santa. My older brother was three and a half years older, so at the time he was discovering it wasn't real I was just hearing about this Santa fellow.

My creative imagination was not crushed.
 
2012-12-05 02:26:32 AM  

skullkrusher: Frederick: Apparently misleading kids is where the real joy is.

yep - sometimes I even pretend I can't find my son when he's hiding his eyes only to surprise him with a nonsense word that sounds something like "Peek-a-boo!" when he uncovers them to his great delight.


You're destroying your child! Someday he's going to find out you're lying -- not only about this, but about potentially EVERYTHING in his world ... everything! - and this knowledge will turn him into a serial killer, right before he puts you in an old folks home where they specialize in elder-torture and euthanasia! Then he'll wreck your car.

But you just go ahead and keep lying to your kid.
 
2012-12-05 02:32:49 AM  
(Certain to follow.) School Board to Teacher: There is no job.
 
2012-12-05 02:44:54 AM  
Telling kids that Jesus is fake is awesome but telling kids that Santa isn't real is a dick move? Stay classy, atheists.

/trollface
 
2012-12-05 02:45:17 AM  
Hey I'm 34 and I still believe in Santa. The belief in Santa and the magic of Christmas gave me this awesome feeling of joy and warmth as a child that persists today when I see my own children get excited and full of wonder about Santa. It is something that helps sustain me, that little bit of light and wonder that I have buried inside, and I want to give it to them.

I wouldn't freak out about this lady, though. I would just tell the kids she doesn't believe in Santa, but that doesn't mean we can't. People believe different things. Get over it.
 
2012-12-05 03:06:21 AM  
There is no Santa Claus

Well, there isn't. Not really worth 476 comments, though.
 
2012-12-05 03:27:20 AM  

whidbey: There is no Santa Claus

Well, there isn't. Not really worth 476 comments, though.


I know, right. Krampus is the real deal.
sellin.com
 
2012-12-05 03:31:25 AM  
I think the bigger issue is that the mother actually likes the fact her daughter goes to a racially diverse school. What kind of crack is she smoking?
 
2012-12-05 04:02:06 AM  

MadAzza: skullkrusher: Frederick: Apparently misleading kids is where the real joy is.

yep - sometimes I even pretend I can't find my son when he's hiding his eyes only to surprise him with a nonsense word that sounds something like "Peek-a-boo!" when he uncovers them to his great delight.

You're destroying your child! Someday he's going to find out you're lying -- not only about this, but about potentially EVERYTHING in his world ... everything! - and this knowledge will turn him into a serial killer, right before he puts you in an old folks home where they specialize in elder-torture and euthanasia! Then he'll wreck your car.

But you just go ahead and keep lying to your kid.


Do it Jack Handey style:

""One thing kids like is to be tricked. For instance, I was going
to take my nephew to Disneyland, but instead I drove him to an old
burned-out warehouse. "Oh no," I said, "Disneyland burned down.""

or

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell
him is, "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute
thing to tell him is, "Probably because of something you did.""
 
2012-12-05 05:02:47 AM  
Lotta aspie farks here who will never have the personal hygiene, let alone the confidence, to get close enough to a woman to procreate trying to dole out "wisdom" about child rearing. How about you mother farkers stick to your My Little Pony and anime while the grown ups that actually have children to raise allow their kids to have a childhood? Not everyone gets to extend their childhood into their cynical 30's, for some it ends much too fast because there will always be miserable coonts who want to suck the joy and wonder of imagination out of the world. As long as the kids have someone who loves them and takes the steps yo help create the fantasy, it's none of your farking business. You want to know what love is? Spending 3 hours putting together a little mermaid kitchenette with decals and no pre-drilled holes and then taking joy as your 2 year old daughter praises and thanks some make believe guy. Helps put things in perspective and realize your responsibility. Many of you are such damaged narcissistic farks, you can't possibly conceive of caring for the well being of something that isn't yourself so you say socially and developmentally retarded shiat in threads like this. Look, basically you're madturbating in public but without the cues and development to understand why it's wrong to tug one off at the food court. I can't fix that level of social ineptitude and ignorance.
 
2012-12-05 05:43:45 AM  

Bender The Offender: Lotta aspie farks here who will never have the personal hygiene, let alone the confidence, to get close enough to a woman to procreate trying to dole out "wisdom" about child rearing. How about you mother farkers stick to your My Little Pony and anime while the grown ups that actually have children to raise allow their kids to have a childhood? Not everyone gets to extend their childhood into their cynical 30's, for some it ends much too fast because there will always be miserable coonts who want to suck the joy and wonder of imagination out of the world. As long as the kids have someone who loves them and takes the steps yo help create the fantasy, it's none of your farking business. You want to know what love is? Spending 3 hours putting together a little mermaid kitchenette with decals and no pre-drilled holes and then taking joy as your 2 year old daughter praises and thanks some make believe guy. Helps put things in perspective and realize your responsibility. Many of you are such damaged narcissistic farks, you can't possibly conceive of caring for the well being of something that isn't yourself so you say socially and developmentally retarded shiat in threads like this. Look, basically you're madturbating in public but without the cues and development to understand why it's wrong to tug one off at the food court. I can't fix that level of social ineptitude and ignorance.


Your amazing strawman argument still doesnt justify how you think other adults should continue your lie to your child. You may lie to your child all you want -but you can not expect other adults to lie to them in your fashion.

You'd be better served explaining how a teacher could better handle the specific situation rather than generalizing on society.

\for the record, I have successfully raised happy children to adulthood
 
2012-12-05 05:46:31 AM  

Bender The Offender: Lotta aspie farks here who will never have the personal hygiene, let alone the confidence, to get close enough to a woman to procreate trying to dole out "wisdom" about child rearing. How about you mother farkers stick to your My Little Pony and anime while the grown ups that actually have children to raise allow their kids to have a childhood? Not everyone gets to extend their childhood into their cynical 30's, for some it ends much too fast because there will always be miserable coonts who want to suck the joy and wonder of imagination out of the world. As long as the kids have someone who loves them and takes the steps yo help create the fantasy, it's none of your farking business. You want to know what love is? Spending 3 hours putting together a little mermaid kitchenette with decals and no pre-drilled holes and then taking joy as your 2 year old daughter praises and thanks some make believe guy. Helps put things in perspective and realize your responsibility. Many of you are such damaged narcissistic farks, you can't possibly conceive of caring for the well being of something that isn't yourself so you say socially and developmentally retarded shiat in threads like this. Look, basically you're madturbating in public but without the cues and development to understand why it's wrong to tug one off at the food court. I can't fix that level of social ineptitude and ignorance.


ts3.mm.bing.net
 
2012-12-05 05:46:44 AM  

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


Or with a science teacher telling children that homeopathy doesn't work.
 
2012-12-05 05:58:56 AM  

Cryokenetic: Bingo. I love all the people who are saying "Well, when I have kids, I won't ever lie to them". It's almost adorable.


You should just save your lies for the important ones, like, "Of course we wanted you!"
 
2012-12-05 06:07:17 AM  
i208.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-05 06:31:23 AM  
When I was five I told my mother that Santa didn't much sense and I knew he wasn't real.
 
2012-12-05 06:56:55 AM  

itsfullofstars: [waterman99.files.wordpress.com image 530x268]


so what's the problem? he was right as it turns out
 
2012-12-05 07:00:05 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.


i know you like being edgy but that's not what happened.
i would not expect teachers to "encourage lies" but i'm not sure i'd be happy with them discouraging them either.

i'm not religious at all but i could certainly empathize with parents getting pissed off if a teacher told their 5 year old there's no God. A public school teacher, whose salary is paid by the tax payers, has no business injecting personal beliefs into such matter.
 
2012-12-05 07:01:00 AM  

pippi longstocking: When I was five I told my mother that Santa didn't much sense and I knew he wasn't real.


maybe you should have paid more attention in class as opposed to pondering theological issues ;-p
 
2012-12-05 07:03:41 AM  

debug: The mom says that the principal was "horrified" by what the teachers had done, and adds that the is ordinarily wonderful Austin.

[t1.gstatic.com image 225x225]


yeah - that bugged me too. maybe the editor just learned santa wasn't real and was off crying
 
2012-12-05 07:11:37 AM  

bartink: I have a toddler and will have to figure out what to do about Santa, as I don't want to lie to my child and am an atheist and consider Santa a bit like God-lite. I think we will end up making it a mystery for her to solve on her own as an exercise to sharpen her critical thinking skills. We are going to make it a bit of a right of passage without so much direct lying involved. I've wrestled with this for a while now.

But what the teacher did was different. It is not her place to do this to these families. Santa is a rich tradition that is much valued by many families. Its basically harmless (according to research, I looked into it) and it isn't the teachers place to replace the judgement of the families.

This isn't biology or math or part of the actual curriculum, so it isn't her/his turf at all. Downplay it if you want. Be cagey about it. Do whatever, but ffs don't just go shiatting on family's valued traditions.

This includes telling them there is no god, or there is a god, or anything else that many people feel strongly about.


i agree with all of this.
as non religious person myself we just don't talk to our kids about it until they're ready. my oldest is turning 6 now and he has started asking a few questions and just watching the way his mind works it makes it even more obvious to me that even if we did change our mind and start teaching him about God, so far we're doing it right. The crap people fill their kids' heads with at such a young age is unbelievable. My wife comes from a super religious protestant family and it blows my mind seeing my kids' cousins praying and fretting over death and the afterlife.

It is my opinion that no toddler mind should be poisoned with concepts of the magnitude of God, death, afterlife etc.
Santa is a bit easier to handle and i see no problem with it.

of course all of this is just my opinion - i don't really care how you raise your kids.
At the same time i'm certainly not going to teach my kid that there's no god either.
he's a smart kid, he'll figure it out on his own.

i wonder if this teacher just made an innocuous statement to the kids "you guys don't still believe in santa do you?"

that's probably still inappropriate, but maybe she wasn't TRYING to be a dick?
 
2012-12-05 07:17:01 AM  

Bender The Offender: Lotta aspie farks here who will never have the personal hygiene, let alone the confidence, to get close enough to a woman to procreate trying to dole out "wisdom" about child rearing. How about you mother farkers stick to your My Little Pony and anime while the grown ups that actually have children to raise allow their kids to have a childhood? Not everyone gets to extend their childhood into their cynical 30's, for some it ends much too fast because there will always be miserable coonts who want to suck the joy and wonder of imagination out of the world. As long as the kids have someone who loves them and takes the steps yo help create the fantasy, it's none of your farking business. You want to know what love is? Spending 3 hours putting together a little mermaid kitchenette with decals and no pre-drilled holes and then taking joy as your 2 year old daughter praises and thanks some make believe guy. Helps put things in perspective and realize your responsibility. Many of you are such damaged narcissistic farks, you can't possibly conceive of caring for the well being of something that isn't yourself so you say socially and developmentally retarded shiat in threads like this. Look, basically you're madturbating in public but without the cues and development to understand why it's wrong to tug one off at the food court. I can't fix that level of social ineptitude and ignorance.


Beautiful
 
2012-12-05 08:34:23 AM  
Good lord, when it comes to some topics, Fark is as hardline as Slashdot's Open Source or the highway types. You don't need to tell 5 year old kids Santa isn't real. Just leave it alone and move on. It wasn't a problem until the teacher made it one. Part of living in society is knowing and following some of it's unsaid rules, one of which is: Don't farking tell 5 year olds Santa isn't real.
 
2012-12-05 08:53:19 AM  

Pichu0102: Part of living in society is knowing and following some of it's unsaid rules, one of which is: Don't farking tell 5 year olds Santa isn't real.


Another one is, "Don't use an apostrophe when using the possessive form of 'it'."
 
2012-12-05 09:09:50 AM  

Any Pie Left: people continued his giving tradition as a way to honor him and to celebrate our Lord's birthday. Saint Nick was shortened over the years to "Santa Claus". "Santa" means "saint". So Santa WAS a real person, in historical times. But he's not alive today.


pray tell, on what date exactly was 'your lord' born?

//in for a penny, in for a pound. 

to add to the confusion, my wife's family is of German catholic ancestry... Saint Nick day is tomorrow (Dec 6th) within the church... but Saint Nick is different from Santa Claus...Saint Nick leaves small presents, candy in stockings... but he's different than Santa Claus... explain that to an 8 year old.
 
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