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(Houston Press)   Teacher to 5-year-olds: There is no Santa Claus   ( blogs.houstonpress.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Santa Claus, Good Lord, Susan, Polar Express, teachers  
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10827 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2012 at 7:45 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



542 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2012-12-04 02:20:05 PM  
I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.
 
2012-12-04 02:23:59 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.


I'm okay with other people minding their own goddamn business.
 
2012-12-04 02:25:04 PM  
FTFA: "Aven had previously attended a Waldorf school, where belief in fairies and other supernatural beings was nurtured."

Mmmm....cult-like school detected.
 
2012-12-04 02:35:30 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.


I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?
 
2012-12-04 02:35:39 PM  

naughtyrev: Mmmm....cult-like school detected.


Maybe. The Houston Press' "Hair Balls" blog has a tendency toward irreverence.
 
2012-12-04 02:38:56 PM  

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


That's really the only reason the parents are upset. Because now they have to figure out how to explain why Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are all made up bullshiat but Jesus is totally real.
 
2012-12-04 02:42:52 PM  
Maybe that teacher should find out what it is like to come down the chimney.
 
2012-12-04 02:45:10 PM  

Shostie: naughtyrev: Mmmm....cult-like school detected.

Maybe. The Houston Press' "Hair Balls" blog has a tendency toward irreverence.


No, really. They're predicated on the philosophical notion of anthroposophy, which draws core tenets from the "Akashic Records" which people like Edgar Cayce would cite.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-04 03:06:39 PM  
cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2012-12-04 03:06:54 PM  
Ugh.

Step one: Something is a lie.

Step two: Someone says it's a lie.

Step three: People freak out.

I wish I could bring myself to care.

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


It's not that I'd be okay with it, it's that I genuinely wouldn't care.

exick: Because now they have to figure out how to explain why Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are all made up bullshiat but Jesus is totally real.


Pretty much, yeah.

Maybe we should try not making things up and passing them off as real?

/big fan of fantasy, sci-fi, supernatural etc., with a love of imagination and playing pretend
//but there's a difference I guess
 
2012-12-04 03:08:05 PM  

naughtyrev: which draws core tenets from the "Akashic Records"


They produced some dope ass albums in the mid-90s.
 
2012-12-04 03:18:09 PM  

vpb: [cdn.motinetwork.net image 640x494]


If you cropped out the table, it'd look like they were about to team up to fight crime.
 
2012-12-04 03:21:42 PM  
"Aven had previously attended a Waldorf school, where belief in fairies and other supernatural beings was nurtured."

Is this true?
 
2012-12-04 03:25:38 PM  

ManateeGag: I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


Why is a school talking about Santa or any other religious figure at all?
 
2012-12-04 03:26:01 PM  

vernonFL: "Aven had previously attended a Waldorf school, where belief in fairies and other supernatural beings was nurtured."

Is this true?


See my comments above.
 
2012-12-04 03:32:13 PM  

mattharvest: ManateeGag: I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

Why is a school talking about Santa or any other religious figure at all?


According to TFA, the exercise was to draw a picture of something real and a picture of something made up. Some kids started drawing Santa in the "real" column or whatever and the teacher decided that that is the moment when she must step in and correct these misinformed five year old plebes.
 
2012-12-04 03:39:04 PM  

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


As I said, I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies...
 
2012-12-04 03:50:59 PM  
Obligatory:

reverendogore.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-04 03:52:25 PM  
I dunno, telling kids Santa is real is kind of a dick move. My mom never wanted to do the Santa thing but my grandmother convinced her to.
 
2012-12-04 03:56:30 PM  
Reality belongs in education. Fantasy belongs in religion.
 
2012-12-04 03:58:45 PM  
I presume Ms. Grinchowski was immediately reprimanded and put on paid leave?
 
2012-12-04 03:59:09 PM  
biatch
 
2012-12-04 04:05:31 PM  
They will learn many truths about the world soon enough. Let them be children and believe in childish things while they can.
 
2012-12-04 04:05:44 PM  
"IT'S THE EXPRESSION ON THEIR LITTLE FACES I LIKE, said the Hogfather.

"You mean sort of fear and awe and not knowing whether to laugh or cry or wet their pants?"

YES. NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL BELIEF."
 
2012-12-04 04:10:46 PM  

Krymson Tyde: They will learn many truths about the world soon enough. Let them be children and believe in childish things while they can.


Yeah, lie to your kids about Santa and when they turn 6 or so, "Psych! It's all bullshiat!". Great way to raise a kid.
 
2012-12-04 04:12:11 PM  
This happens every year, and every year it's a big damn story with the teacher catching so much damn flak from idiot parents.

Wanna fix it? Tell your kids "Hey, your teacher misspoke." 5 year olds will believe it.

No, let's fly off the handle and get nationwide attention.
 
2012-12-04 04:17:28 PM  

Shostie: mattharvest: ManateeGag: I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

Why is a school talking about Santa or any other religious figure at all?

According to TFA, the exercise was to draw a picture of something real and a picture of something made up. Some kids started drawing Santa in the "real" column or whatever and the teacher decided that that is the moment when she must step in and correct these misinformed five year old plebes.


What would you prefer? That she let them draw a fictional character in there? If the point was to understand the difference between things that and real and things that aren't, then that's fair.

Now, perhaps she would have been better off saying "I was talking about things, not people" or something, but that's not the point. I wasn't aware parents were entitled to have their kids' illusions protected by teachers.
 
2012-12-04 04:17:32 PM  
The kid learned a very valuable lesson: NEVER push your luck with a substitute kindergarten teacher. 
 
Those people are one secret shot of Popov vodka and a high-pitched kiddie scream away from full-on mass Kindercide!
 
2012-12-04 04:17:51 PM  
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. - Voltaire

Gotta get 'em while they're young. That way, reasons for waging war seem much more believable.
 
2012-12-04 04:22:06 PM  

naughtyrev: Mmmm....cult-like school detected.


Not really. Waldorf does draw from Anthroposophy and Rudolf Steiner, but it could hardly be called a "cult" movement. It is an educational framework and impulse designed to cultivate children's relationships with nature and cycles of the nature world. Rudolf Steiner was committed to an esoteric form of Christianity, which did make room for other-than-human Persons in the world--but that's really not exceptional for the Christian tradition, or many other religious traditions for that matter. The problem that I have is that the teacher entirely short circuits the very real and very positive experience of moving from exoteric symbolism to esoteric truth. There is a very real spirit of thankfulness, generosity and giving in humanity often associated with the birth of the new light (the Sun) around the winter solstice. Just as the cosmos gives us this light of increase, so too do we donate to each other's increase. Santa Claus is a way for children to experience this at the level they are capable of doing at that age. There will be a time they'll learn on their own that this is a subtle truth to be experienced inwardly for themselves--but wrenching the sacramental usage of Santa Claus out of the world of the youth does not strike me as a healthy move. We teach children lots of things at the level they are capable of appreciating--and then complicate them later on when they are capable of handling complication. In terms of Zen: "Yes there is a Santa Claus for those who do not know what he is. There is no Santa Claus for those who know what he is."

/flame away, won't bother me
 
2012-12-04 04:23:20 PM  

Mugato: Yeah, lie to your kids about Santa and when they turn 6 or so, "Psych! It's all bullshiat!". Great way to raise a kid.


Nice strawman there. Nice and fluffy.
 
2012-12-04 04:40:26 PM  

Somacandra: naughtyrev: Mmmm....cult-like school detected.

Not really. Waldorf does draw from Anthroposophy and Rudolf Steiner, but it could hardly be called a "cult" movement. It is an educational framework and impulse designed to cultivate children's relationships with nature and cycles of the nature world. Rudolf Steiner was committed to an esoteric form of Christianity, which did make room for other-than-human Persons in the world--but that's really not exceptional for the Christian tradition, or many other religious traditions for that matter. The problem that I have is that the teacher entirely short circuits the very real and very positive experience of moving from exoteric symbolism to esoteric truth. There is a very real spirit of thankfulness, generosity and giving in humanity often associated with the birth of the new light (the Sun) around the winter solstice. Just as the cosmos gives us this light of increase, so too do we donate to each other's increase. Santa Claus is a way for children to experience this at the level they are capable of doing at that age. There will be a time they'll learn on their own that this is a subtle truth to be experienced inwardly for themselves--but wrenching the sacramental usage of Santa Claus out of the world of the youth does not strike me as a healthy move. We teach children lots of things at the level they are capable of appreciating--and then complicate them later on when they are capable of handling complication. In terms of Zen: "Yes there is a Santa Claus for those who do not know what he is. There is no Santa Claus for those who know what he is."

/flame away, won't bother me


Fair enough. I know the kids who attend these schools do tend to perform well on standard measures later in life (SATs, for one). Pedagogically, they seem a bit mushy to me, but then again, most public schools are most certainly far too data, testing and outcomes oriented which is certainly bad for children I believe.
 
2012-12-04 05:47:40 PM  

Mugato: Krymson Tyde: They will learn many truths about the world soon enough. Let them be children and believe in childish things while they can.

Yeah, lie to your kids about Santa and when they turn 6 or so, "Psych! It's all bullshiat!". Great way to raise a kid.


I had a nice long reasoned reply for you, but I decided my thoughts can be better summed up by saying fark you.
 
2012-12-04 05:48:19 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

As I said, I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies...


Jesus F*cking Christ on a raft, it's not a lie. It's a child's story, a fantasy.
Some of you take this "OMFG THERE IS NO SANTA UR LYING TO OUR CHILLDERN" nonsense much too seriously. What you think simply isn't important to their development.
Let children have their fantasies. It really doesn't concern you.
 
2012-12-04 05:49:57 PM  

exick: ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

That's really the only reason the parents are upset. Because now they have to figure out how to explain why Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are all made up bullshiat but Jesus is totally real.


Really? You know them? What a great coincidence! What else can you tell us about them that those of us who don't know them personally aren't privy to?
 
2012-12-04 05:50:18 PM  
I've never lied to my kids about Santa.
 
2012-12-04 05:54:38 PM  

Krymson Tyde: I had a nice long reasoned reply for you, but I decided my thoughts can be better summed up by saying fark you.


I've heard that before.
 
2012-12-04 05:55:16 PM  

Mugato: Krymson Tyde: They will learn many truths about the world soon enough. Let them be children and believe in childish things while they can.

Yeah, lie to your kids about Santa and when they turn 6 or so, "Psych! It's all bullshiat!". Great way to raise a kid.


It's too bad such an insignifant event damaged you much. Fortunately, most children are far more resilient.
 
2012-12-04 05:55:28 PM  

vernonFL: "Aven had previously attended a Waldorf school, where belief in fairies and other supernatural beings was nurtured."

Is this true?


That someone named their kid Aven? Probably.
 
2012-12-04 06:00:36 PM  
Not so at her new school, where the teacher reportedly has a partner-in-grinchiness.

I hate that misuse of the term. I've been called a Grinch or a Scrooge before and it's utter bullshiat. They ended up having a change of heart.
 
2012-12-04 06:14:00 PM  

stpauler: Not so at her new school, where the teacher reportedly has a partner-in-grinchiness.

I hate that misuse of the term. I've been called a Grinch or a Scrooge before and it's utter bullshiat. They ended up having a change of heart.


You tell yourself you're not that kind but you don't even know your mind
Even you could have a change of heart
Don't lose that number You don't wanna call nobody else
Send it off in a letter to yourself, It's the only one you own
You might use it if you feel better when you get home
 
2012-12-04 06:18:54 PM  
He shouldn't have, but this is a good example of something not being a BFD.
 
2012-12-04 06:48:59 PM  

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


There are adults that believe in gods. Are there adults that believe in Santa?

FTFA: "Another adult has no right to submit their own beliefs on a group of 5 year olds and their families - about Santa, God, politics or whatever - especially phrased 'your belief is not right.'"

Is that belief contradictory to yours? That Santa isn't real? The only way the teacher is saying, 'your belief is not right' is if you do, indeed, believe in him.
 
2012-12-04 07:26:43 PM  

maxalt: Maybe that teacher should find out what it is like to come down the chimney.


I tried that once, but got soot all over my weener and I'm pretty sure one of the neighbors was watching.
 
2012-12-04 07:26:49 PM  

4.bp.blogspot.com

You people are slow.

 
2012-12-04 07:47:39 PM  
Well......there isn't. However, 5-year-olds are supposed to believe in supernatural/mythical beings. They're kids. I stopped believing in Santa when I was 7, only because I figured out the handwriting on my gift tags was my mom's, and the handwriting on my sister's gift tags was my dad's. She was 2, so they kept putting "From: Santa" on hers, but after that they'd just put "From: Mom & Dad" on mine. It never bothered them that I found them out; I think they would have been hurt if I'd found the presents early or something.

Now, when a 40-year-old still believes that a jolly fat man who lives at the top of planet will squeeze himself through their chimney once a year.....then we have a problem.
 
2012-12-04 07:49:54 PM  
I read an article one time that was talking about how learning that there is no Santa is a big part of growing up, and it helps kids feel responsible with that little bit of "adult" knowledge, especially if there are younger siblings in the house.

Was pretty interesting.
 
2012-12-04 07:52:39 PM  
The guy who wrote that needs to go back to school.

Having said that, it is sort of a dick move for a teacher to tell 5-year-olds there's no Santa, but I wouldn't call this a firing offense.
 
2012-12-04 07:52:40 PM  

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


Well, duh. If the child started drawing a god on the Real side of the page, the teacher would be derelict in their duty in not correcting them.
 
2012-12-04 07:53:19 PM  
Because she is disrupting the school atmosphere, can she be fired under her teaching contract's sanity clause?
 
2012-12-04 07:53:26 PM  
I want to infinitive, but I won't.
 
2012-12-04 07:54:24 PM  
The mother said another parent told her that a second teacher assigned her students to draw two pictures on a piece of paper, one of something real, and the other of something imaginary. When the student started drawing Santa on the "real" side of the page, the teacher said Saint Nick belonged on the fake side.

Namby pamby hand-holding new-age nonsense. Let the girl finish her assignment, turn it in and give her the F for being 50% correct. That's how learning works; you have to let them make mistakes.
 
2012-12-04 07:54:26 PM  
Stop lying to your farking children about a mascot being real and there won't be a problem.
 
2012-12-04 07:54:37 PM  
Yes there is.
 
2012-12-04 07:55:07 PM  
It's actually possible to be respectful to each other, but online, that filter appears to be lost...

To app

*)
 
2012-12-04 07:55:23 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

As I said, I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies...


The lie is that God does not exist and that atheists are not religious. You have faith that God is not real. You certainly cannot prove it. You are a sad, angry person who wants to push your beliefs on others while you pretend to be the opposite. You are pathetic.
 
2012-12-04 07:55:55 PM  

Coco LaFemme: However, 5-year-olds are supposed to believe in supernatural/mythical beings. They're kids.


Which is totally why you should treat them like idiots, instead of teaching them the basic skills they need to become independent human beings.

There's nothing wrong with stories and make-believe, but acting like it's real is stupid and insulting to children.
 
2012-12-04 07:55:57 PM  
The mom emailed a complaint to the principal, who told he that she has reprimanded the teacher and given her the "tools to deal with this situation" in the future.

They read the e-mail out loud in the breakroom, all of them had a good laugh at the asshat parent and the principal then told her what she wanted to hear and got back to more important things.
 
2012-12-04 07:56:56 PM  
Wasn't the teachers place to tell the kids that. What beliefs the kids/family have is none of her damn business.
It's one thing to figure it out themselves, but for an adult to "smash the dream" sucks.
 
2012-12-04 07:57:07 PM  

Mija: The My Little Pony Killer: ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

As I said, I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies...

The lie is that God does not exist and that atheists are not religious. You have faith that God is not real. You certainly cannot prove it. You are a sad, angry person who wants to push your beliefs on others while you pretend to be the opposite. You are pathetic.


The non-existence of deities does not require belief. It is a simple basic fact.
 
2012-12-04 07:57:30 PM  
See what happens when Republicans step into the classroom? They go making the kids all bootstrappy!
 
2012-12-04 07:57:30 PM  

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


I'd be OK with people learning to spell "atheist". If that ever happened I'd believe in a god.
 
2012-12-04 07:57:31 PM  

Coco LaFemme: Now, when a 40-year-old still believes that a jolly fat man who lives at the top of planet will squeeze himself through their chimney once a year.....then we have a problem.


Well, my wife is almost that age, and she certainly believes that I will, as you put it, "squeeze myself through her chimney once a year." If it's a good year, I'll do it twice.

/I suppose I could be jollier, or fatter
//Is Westchester County near the top of the planet?
 
2012-12-04 07:57:41 PM  
A lie?

i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-12-04 07:58:17 PM  
/ho-ho-hot
 
2012-12-04 07:58:38 PM  

Mija: The My Little Pony Killer: ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

As I said, I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies...

The lie is that God does not exist and that atheists are not religious. You have faith that God is not real. You certainly cannot prove it. You are a sad, angry person who wants to push your beliefs on others while you pretend to be the opposite. You are pathetic.


Casting stones in this glass house of earth is dangerous, for all the panes are just one tink from breaking, and if that happens, your calculus just differentiated. *)
 
2012-12-04 07:58:44 PM  
It's a pretty dick move. It's one thing to accidentally blurt it out, it's another to go into details about the deception. I mean, FFS, the kids are 5 years old. Let them believe in something nice before they grow up to realize that the world is a gigantic shiathole just waiting to crush their dreams.
 
2012-12-04 07:58:48 PM  

Krymson Tyde: They will learn many truths about the world soon enough. Let them be children and believe in childish things while they can.


Childish beliefs which are taught to them by adults.

Childish adults.
 
2012-12-04 07:59:24 PM  
I never believed in Santa Claus. When I was four I told the other kids he wasn't real. The adults were mortified. It seems I was born to piss on your fantasies.
 
2012-12-04 07:59:28 PM  

ProfessorOhki: /ho-ho-hot


Son of a...
i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-04 08:01:13 PM  
Texas, where Santa Claus is fake, but a big all seeing man who lives in the clouds invented everything ever in 7 days, and humans rode around on dinosaurs.

Makes sense, they do have the highest drop out rate, guessing their qualifications to become a teacher are probably pretty damn low.
 
2012-12-04 08:01:22 PM  
What a self-righteous douche of a lady.

Like a few of my fellow Farkers here ... God bless you, and don't ever change, you exquisite douchelords!
 
2012-12-04 08:02:17 PM  
I'm a (relatively theologically conservative) pastor, and part time troll on fark (part time enough that nobody recognizes me, but i've been here a LONG TIME), imitating idiot conservatives to vent my frustration about them.

Anyway, my favorite thing to tell members of my church who think that it's adorable to tell kids about Santa is that many people point to their disillusionment about Santa as the first step in their turning away from God, and that by telling them lies about Santa Claus, you demonstrate that you care more about your own amusement than the spiritual destiny of your child.
 
2012-12-04 08:02:36 PM  

Mija: The My Little Pony Killer: ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

As I said, I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies...

The lie is that God does not exist and that atheists are not religious. You have faith that God is not real. You certainly cannot prove it. You are a sad, angry person who wants to push your beliefs on others while you pretend to be the opposite. You are pathetic.


LOL @ "atheism is a religion"
 
2012-12-04 08:02:36 PM  

minoridiot: I've never lied to my kids about Santa.


I don't recall if I did or not. But my son's 22 now and doesn't seem to have trust issues.
 
2012-12-04 08:03:03 PM  

skinink: Because she is disrupting the school atmosphere, can she be fired under her teaching contract's sanity clause?


1.bp.blogspot.com
"You can't fool me, there ain't no Sanity Clause!"
 
2012-12-04 08:03:04 PM  

Coco LaFemme: However, 5-year-olds are supposed to believe in supernatural/mythical beings. They're kids.

Lernaeus: Which is totally why you should treat them like idiots, instead of teaching them the basic skills they need to become independent human beings.

There's nothing wrong with stories and make-believe, but acting like it's real is stupid and insulting to children.


Thank you
 
2012-12-04 08:05:30 PM  

Godscrack: Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. - Voltaire

Gotta get 'em while they're young. That way, reasons for waging war seem much more believable.


Nonsense. Santa Claus teaches kids to question authority. They all find out well before puberty.
 
2012-12-04 08:05:33 PM  
To imagine
 
2012-12-04 08:05:35 PM  

kg2095: Krymson Tyde: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm okay with other people minding their own goddamn business.

That teacher has robbed those children of their childhoods.


Oh boo hoo. She's not raping them.
 
2012-12-04 08:06:15 PM  
I guess the Hero tag took a trip to the North Pole. People need to stop justifying lying to their children.

Oh wait. Religion.


Nuts.
 
2012-12-04 08:07:19 PM  

Indubitably: To imagine


P.S. This was b4 being plugged in. Back in the day, we used to imagine everything. In our heads. For serious.
 
2012-12-04 08:07:24 PM  
Mija needs to grab a dictionary and look up "atheist" before they jump into any further conversations on the matter.
 
2012-12-04 08:08:00 PM  

Coco LaFemme: Well......there isn't. However, 5-year-olds are supposed to believe in supernatural/mythical beings. They're kids. I stopped believing in Santa when I was 7, only because I figured out the handwriting on my gift tags was my mom's, and the handwriting on my sister's gift tags was my dad's. She was 2, so they kept putting "From: Santa" on hers, but after that they'd just put "From: Mom & Dad" on mine. It never bothered them that I found them out; I think they would have been hurt if I'd found the presents early or something.

Now, when a 40-year-old still believes that a jolly fat man who lives at the top of planet will squeeze himself through their chimney once a year.....then we have a problem.


This.
 
2012-12-04 08:08:27 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Mija needs to grab a dictionary and look up "atheist" before they jump into any further conversations on the matter.


Methinks it was a poor attempt at trolling. Then again, there are people who actually think that's what atheism is....or that atheists are "angry with god".
 
2012-12-04 08:09:01 PM  
As a former child, I recall a period of bitter resentment as I discovered lie after lie. Not so much for the mythical figures like Santa and the Easter Bunny but more general bullshiat answers to the typical "why" questions. Mostly from my grandfather because he would give bullshiat answers with the same sense of sincerity as the scientific answers. Adults think that kind of thing is funny but young kids haven't learned to tell the difference between truth and bullshiat. When a trusted authority figure tells a kid something they believe it. When something the kid stored away as a fundamental truth turns out to be a complete fabrication, the kid's left wondering just how much of our reality is false. I spent quite a bit of time fact checking in my tween years.

While that process is probably a necessary part of building a prudent level of skepticism and I got over it eventually, it doesn't change the fact that I felt betrayed at the time because someone I trusted implicitly had filled my head with bullshiat because it was amusing at the time.
 
2012-12-04 08:09:02 PM  
Approves of The Adult Conspiracy:

www.hipiers.com
 
2012-12-04 08:09:23 PM  
Santa Claus is the patron saint of children and "giving without expectation," or charity, so teaching your kids about him is a GOOD idea. But a lot of parents use the idea of literalism to infantilize their children. I have an aunt who kept her children believing that there was a Santa Claus until the oldest one was THIRTEEN. When a family member spilled the beans, the aunt stopped speaking to her.

If your kids want to believe in Santa, that's one thing; keeping them believing in Santa because you're getting something out of it is selfish.

So yeah, when someone says that Santa isn't literally real and that infuriates some parent or other, I get the warm fuzzies. Someone's just been taught two things: 1) critical thinking skills are a thing, and 2) Mommy is a manipulative liar. Otherwise she wouldn't be offended that the jig was up.
 
2012-12-04 08:09:25 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Mija needs to grab a dictionary and look up "atheist" before they jump into any further conversations on the matter.

To label


P.S. Read first, and label after carefully considered thoughts unhindered by intoxicants, please. Thank you.
 
2012-12-04 08:09:27 PM  

Slesfo: I'm a (relatively theologically conservative) pastor, and part time troll on fark (part time enough that nobody recognizes me, but i've been here a LONG TIME), imitating idiot conservatives to vent my frustration about them.

Anyway, my favorite thing to tell members of my church who think that it's adorable to tell kids about Santa is that many people point to their disillusionment about Santa as the first step in their turning away from God, and that by telling them lies about Santa Claus, you demonstrate that you care more about your own amusement than the spiritual destiny of your child.


So you're all right with telling lies about the existence of deities, but you draw the line at telling lies about the existence of Santa? That's some impressive cognitive dissonance, assuming you're not trolling here as well...
 
2012-12-04 08:10:06 PM  

Coco LaFemme: 5-year-olds are supposed to believe in supernatural/mythical beings. They're kids.


Why, exactly? Wouldn't that age, when their minds are like sponges, be better spent developing their reason,?Not on some fantasy to be later discarded.

And what is the purpose of this fantasy? To make them feel good? An opiate?

Mija: The lie is that God does not exist and that atheists are not religious. You have faith that God is not real. You certainly cannot prove it. You are a sad, angry person who wants to push your beliefs on others while you pretend to be the opposite. You are pathetic.


This doesn't make any sense. Belief doesn't equal blind faith Well, maybe it does to a zealot.

I also have no reason to believe in Santa Claus. Does that mean I believe in fairies?
 
2012-12-04 08:10:30 PM  

kg2095: Krymson Tyde: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm okay with other people minding their own goddamn business.

That teacher has robbed those children of their childhoods.


And they didn't even get to enjoy it.
 
2012-12-04 08:10:37 PM  
Wahhhhhhhh. Some one told my child a fact in school.
This is how creationists start.
 
2012-12-04 08:10:45 PM  

sendtodave: Krymson Tyde: They will learn many truths about the world soon enough. Let them be children and believe in childish things while they can.

Childish beliefs which are taught to them by adults.

Childish adults.


They're five year olds. They believe in childish things because they ARE children.

Santa Claus is a chance for kids to play with their imagination. To imagine how one guy delivers presents all around the world in one night. No one is going to die because a tiny tot believes in a guy with a magic sled and bottomless sack of gifts. Mind you, these same kids will stop believing in him as they grow older without having any permanent damage for believing in the first place.

I know I am in Fark but, man, this thread is full of robots.
 
2012-12-04 08:13:08 PM  
invisible sky wizard didn't create, magic flying pedofile that breaks in to houses and steal cookies and leave crap
 
2012-12-04 08:13:19 PM  

DreamyAltarBoy: I never believed in Santa Claus. When I was four I told the other kids he wasn't real. The adults were mortified. It seems I was born to piss on your fantasies.


Don't really remember myself, but I must have for a while because I distinctly remember laying traps to determine the state of his existence for myself. Bless you 60-in-1 electronics kit; for being [fairly] easily combined with a toy walkie-talkie to create a remote tripwire monitor.
 
2012-12-04 08:13:44 PM  

Theaetetus: skinink: Because she is disrupting the school atmosphere, can she be fired under her teaching contract's sanity clause?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 320x240]
"You can't fool me, there ain't no Sanity Clause!"


Theaetetus: skinink: Because she is disrupting the school atmosphere, can she be fired under her teaching contract's sanity clause?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 320x240]
"You can't fool me, there ain't no Sanity Clause!"


Well done.
 
2012-12-04 08:13:53 PM  

mekki: sendtodave: Krymson Tyde: They will learn many truths about the world soon enough. Let them be children and believe in childish things while they can.

Childish beliefs which are taught to them by adults.

Childish adults.

They're five year olds. They believe in childish things because they ARE children.

Santa Claus is a chance for kids to play with their imagination. To imagine how one guy delivers presents all around the world in one night. No one is going to die because a tiny tot believes in a guy with a magic sled and bottomless sack of gifts. Mind you, these same kids will stop believing in him as they grow older without having any permanent damage for believing in the first place.

I know I am in Fark but, man, this thread is full of robots.


Hey,
 
2012-12-04 08:14:21 PM  

mekki: No one is going to die because a tiny tot believes in a guy with a magic sled and bottomless sack of gifts.


Except the guy who has to pay for it all. :-)
 
2012-12-04 08:14:25 PM  
My plan, when I have children, is to tell them that Santa is a game people play, and give them the choice of whether or not to play it too, with the understanding that even if they don't play, it's still considered extremely rude to spoil the game for others.

This teacher is a jerk.
 
2012-12-04 08:14:32 PM  

haywatchthis: invisible sky wizard didn't create, magic flying pedofile that breaks in to houses and steal cookies and leave crap


Comma-splice.
 
2012-12-04 08:15:31 PM  
People have an issue with telling kids Santa Claus is real?

I really hate this website sometimes.
 
2012-12-04 08:17:02 PM  
Is this the same teacher that tells the adoptees that those are not their real parents?
 
2012-12-04 08:17:05 PM  
I would imagine that an educator must, at one time, draw the line on fact and fiction. If your job is to cultivate the knowledge and development of our future, yet consciously allow them to believe something that is factually inaccurate, then you are not doing your job.

The consequence is anger and sadness, but only temporary from the children. The parents (the liars) are a different matter. Instantly this defensive, "I know what is right for my children" rage comes into play, and never once do they realize that if Santa was real or not - makes no difference.

Your kids trust you from birth to be honest to them. To love them enough to guide them and teach them so that they can grow up to be great people. To let them make their own decisions and theories as they become responsible.
 
2012-12-04 08:17:37 PM  

Coco LaFemme:
Now, when a 40-year-old still believes that a jolly fat man who lives at the top of planet will squeeze himself through their chimney once a year.....then we have a problem.



.... Or that a zombie-deity can hear your unspoken thoughts to grant you wishes; and just to be on the safe you ceremoniously eat his flesh and drink his blood. And you can't forget that of the 6,000 years Earth has been there was once a point where two of EVERY animal on Earth was put on a boat to survive for over a month with a man and his family who later repopulated the planet.

It's a good thing that no one in power in the United States would believe such outlandish fairy tales.
 
2012-12-04 08:17:38 PM  
Oh, ffs.

There is a big difference between letting little kids have their fantasies about Santa Claus and "lying to kids about God." Guess what: Kids figure out, about age six or seven, that Santa is fake. Often before that, but it's fun for a year or two to pretend you believe in Santa because WHAT IF..... Then there's the year or two that they don't believe in Santa but "We have to pretend because little brother or sister still thinks Santa is real" and it makes them feel all grown up to pretend with the adults for the "babies." (When they're all of 7 or 8)

Pretending like you're enlightening a five-year old because YOU in your adult, non-fantastical, non-religious way, have decided children should not live in a world of lies, it's time to put away childish things, conflating god with Santa, or whatever justification you use for killing the joy in a child's life, is not your call. Five is not a good age to be questioning either god or Santa. Five needs a few absolutes like Disney princesses and Santa Claus. And anyway, it's not up to some substitute kindergarten teacher to make that decision for them.

Ask yourself: Are these kids better off now that someone told them there is no Santa? Are they really going to now decide (at age 5) that there is no god and no Jesus and that Cinderella is really just a marketing tool? Do you think that really makes that much difference in a kid's life, except to ruin a holiday for them?
 
2012-12-04 08:17:55 PM  
Guess what? She was right. Santa is a tool designed to make your spoiled crotch fruit behave out of their intrinsic sense of greed. God and Jesus were made up to control the population out of fear of 'eternal fire" or some such bullshiat. Seeing a pattern here?
 
2012-12-04 08:18:03 PM  

Indubitably: haywatchthis: invisible sky wizard didn't create, magic flying pedofile that breaks in to houses and steal cookies and leave crap

Comma-splice.


P.S. I know everyone says that they hate the grammarian, but I don't actually believe them, because we all crave learning, and I secretly suspect we applaud ourselves when we learn something, and my life has been all about that. To learn something in the now is a beautiful thing...I did it just now with you. Huzzah!
 
2012-12-04 08:18:11 PM  
So, here's the thing: "Santa" is real. The spirit of giving, friendship, love for family, and decency to your fellow man are real things that should be taught to children from as early an age as possible.

Santa Claus, however, is not real. And teaching children that imaginary things are real is, well, wrong. Sure, kids should have fantasies, but they should also be taught that fantasies are just that: fantasies. Dora the Explorer? Not real. Elmo? A fiction, make-believe. And there's nothing wrong with make-believe, so long as it's distinguished from reality.

We're teaching our kids that Santa is a game a lot of adults like to play, one that makes gift giving at Christmas a slightly different experience. "Santa" might "bring them gifts," but Santa himself does not.
 
2012-12-04 08:18:42 PM  

sendtodave: Coco LaFemme: 5-year-olds are supposed to believe in supernatural/mythical beings. They're kids.

Why, exactly? Wouldn't that age, when their minds are like sponges, be better spent developing their reason,?Not on some fantasy to be later discarded.

That's right Komrad, why in the hell should kids have a childhood ? Let them know just how much the real world sucks right from the get go. Piss on their dreams and crush their imagination. And that fantasy to be later discarded? They used to be called fond childhood memories, let's smash them too.

 
2012-12-04 08:18:46 PM  
There is nothing wrong about telling kids the reality about Santa Claus. They can still enjoy christmas even without believing in some fat dude who invades everybody's home to plant gifts under the tree. What is real is that you have a loving family and friends who will take care of you and even give you gifts, with or without Santa Claus.

If kids start asking questions about the truth on a subject matter, then they deserve to know the truth. When they grow up and find out about all the lies that you've been using to control them, the more they'll become rebellious. For example, if you keep telling a child that if he doesn't listen to you, the monster from the closet will eat him at night, when he grows up, he'll rebel. He'll have all the ammunition to fight against you. Why? Because he can easily say "You always used fear to control me, well not anymore!".

The story of Santa Claus can also be used to fit your needs to control kids. You can easily say Santa Claus is a creature from another dimension who rewards good children with gifts and kidnaps bad kids and turns them into toy making slaves. I'd rather tell kids the truth that the "Santa Claus" of the world are loving family members who really care about you whether you've been bad or good, not some fair weathered entity who will ignore you if you don't act as he pleases.
 
2012-12-04 08:19:39 PM  

mekki: Santa Claus is a chance for kids to play with their imagination.


Kids don't need lies to use their imaginations. Parents do themselves a disservice by perpetuating the myth of Santa Claus because it undermines the child's faith in their parents.
 
2012-12-04 08:19:57 PM  

Mugato: I dunno, telling kids Santa is real is kind of a dick move. My mom never wanted to do the Santa thing but my grandmother convinced her to.


That's not so bad...at least she was aware of it.

OTOH, some parents tag team a kid into complying with some variation of the Boogyman and Santa.

The children DO eventually pick up on the fact that those parents resort to that sort of thing instead of assertiveness and consistency. Then, when those children find out (like from that teacher) that it was a clever ruse for manipulation, many of those children then learn to make up stuff and maneuver the parents and then the parents get what they deserve; a manipulative child who gets his way most of the time.
 
2012-12-04 08:20:37 PM  

Krymson Tyde: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm okay with other people minding their own goddamn business.


ummm, teaching them facts is exactly their goddamned business. that is why i pay taxes, not to foster some farking christian wizard shiat . go to a private school for that. no farking wonder we are last in math/science in elementary age kids amongst industrialized nations.
 
2012-12-04 08:20:40 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-04 08:20:56 PM  
I have a toddler and will have to figure out what to do about Santa, as I don't want to lie to my child and am an atheist and consider Santa a bit like God-lite. I think we will end up making it a mystery for her to solve on her own as an exercise to sharpen her critical thinking skills. We are going to make it a bit of a right of passage without so much direct lying involved. I've wrestled with this for a while now.

But what the teacher did was different. It is not her place to do this to these families. Santa is a rich tradition that is much valued by many families. Its basically harmless (according to research, I looked into it) and it isn't the teachers place to replace the judgement of the families.

This isn't biology or math or part of the actual curriculum, so it isn't her/his turf at all. Downplay it if you want. Be cagey about it. Do whatever, but ffs don't just go shiatting on family's valued traditions.

This includes telling them there is no god, or there is a god, or anything else that many people feel strongly about.
 
2012-12-04 08:20:59 PM  
I'm torn on the whole Santa thing. My son just turned two so he doesn't really get it yet but next year he will. I'm an absolutely terrible liar but I remember the awesome feeling when I was little and believed. What to do, what to do.
 
2012-12-04 08:21:06 PM  
To reholiday?
 
2012-12-04 08:21:17 PM  
waterman99.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-04 08:21:45 PM  
Well I bet that most of the anti-santa people here on Fark will still end up telling their kids that santa brings their presents when they have them.
 
2012-12-04 08:22:09 PM  
Well, the teacher is correct and also incorrect. While there isn't a magical nose-tweaking chimney-jumper, I'm pretty sure someone somewhere goes around calling themselves Santa (either by way of moronic parents, delusions and psychological deficiencies, or just to make money.) So, meh.
 
2012-12-04 08:22:11 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Ask yourself: Are these kids better off now that someone told them there is no Santa? Are they really going to now decide (at age 5) that there is no god and no Jesus and that Cinderella is really just a marketing tool? Do you think that really makes that much difference in a kid's life, except to ruin a holiday for them?


Please. Only no gifts or cookies would ruin the holiday for them.
 
2012-12-04 08:22:18 PM  
Teacher, you don't still seriously believe you are making a difference in the lives of any of us, do you?
 
2012-12-04 08:22:21 PM  
Deserves the HERO tag IMO.
 
2012-12-04 08:22:44 PM  
Whats really sad is that so many farkers came from broken homes where there was noone to love them.

They probably never had children either cause they didn't want to repeat the cycle.......
 
2012-12-04 08:22:55 PM  

Slesfo: I'm a (relatively theologically conservative) pastor, and part time troll on fark (part time enough that nobody recognizes me, but i've been here a LONG TIME),


well, you're around enough that I have you favorited as: seriously unfunny "Christian" troll
 
2012-12-04 08:24:46 PM  

Shostie: lumn or whatever and the teacher decid


uh, yes, santa is usually dispelled by 2-4. if you make it to a public school and are not prepared for math and solar system diagrams and still believe in flying toy gods, your parents have crippled you.
 
2012-12-04 08:24:47 PM  
Johnny : Mommy, is santa real? and the easter bunny? the tooth fairy?

Mom "No son, santa is made up because daddy and mommy want you be less irritating,and behave, so we use santa to threaten "no presents" to make you be less of a screaming meme. Mommy and daddy made these characters up to control you dear, because we suck at parenting.
'
Johnny "Um..ok...but what about God? Did man make up God too? To control us?"

Mom.."no hunny, God is real."

Johnny "well...santa is in a book, and the easter bunny, and the tooth fairy, and all those books were written by men, wasn't the bible written by man too?"

Mom "ON YOUR KNEES YOU BLASPHEMOUS HEATHEN...REPENT OR BURN IN HELL..THE GOD WHO LOVES YOU COMMANDS IT!!" smack..punch...kick...
 
2012-12-04 08:24:52 PM  

Mija: The lie is that God does not exist and that atheists are not religious. You have faith that God is not real. You certainly cannot prove it. You are a sad, angry person who wants to push your beliefs on others while you pretend to be the opposite. You are pathetic.



Actually it makes perfect sense to refrain from believing in every extraordinary story of beings with magic powers until solid evidence of the story's truth is presented.

Since there are thousands upon thousands of stories of magical beings and no proof that any of them are real whatsoever it is perfectly rational to disbelieve in all of them equally - and I'd go so far as to say irrational to believe otherwise. The Judeo-Christian god is no different from any other religious myth in this respect, and in fact you can find many elements of the Yahweh myth present in other competing mythologies from the era and region where the myth originated.
 
2012-12-04 08:25:20 PM  

Giltric: Whats really sad is that so many farkers came from broken homes where there was noone to love them.

They probably never had children either cause they didn't want to repeat the cycle.......


I don't remember you having an apostrophe problem b4?

What happened?
 
2012-12-04 08:25:48 PM  
My five-year-old niece asked me yesterday, about the reality of Santa Claus. We looked up Saint Nicholas on Wikipedia, and I read to her of some of the things he did to achieve sainthood. We looked at the pictures of how different cultures view Santa Claus, and discussed what she knew about him. Then I turned her question around on her, and asked her "Well, do you believe in Santa Claus?" She told me "Of course! I just saw his pictures!"

She was satisfied, and I was relieved.
 
2012-12-04 08:26:20 PM  

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer:

I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


I'm sure okay with it, though it can't be easily proven one way or another -- unlike Santa Claus. And by the way, it's A T H E I S T: if you're going to be against it learn how to spell it.

Any parent who teaches their kids to believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny is committing child abuse by damaging the kid's ability to tell true from false. In the medium run you might be doing them a favor by letting them find out the adults around them, especially Mommy and Daddy, are evil two-faced liars, but all they're likely to do after they find that out is spend the rest of their lives trying to believe in SOMETHING: astrology, Jesus, Gaia, Justin Bieber, "democracy," Prince Charming, ANYTHING to fill that empty space where the Santa Claus myth used to be. "I want to believe!" means "Run a con job on me! Reality is too complicated for my vapid little head!"

Teach your children to reason, not to believe, and to understand that there will always be more questions than there are answers. And if you don't know the answer to something admit it and help them learn. At least don't baffle them with bullshiat.


And any teacher who answers yes to "Is Santa Claus real?" should be fired on the spot. You wouldn't want your kid taught that 2+2=5 would you?
 
2012-12-04 08:27:32 PM  

mongbiohazard: Mija: The lie is that God does not exist and that atheists are not religious. You have faith that God is not real. You certainly cannot prove it. You are a sad, angry person who wants to push your beliefs on others while you pretend to be the opposite. You are pathetic.


Actually it makes perfect sense to refrain from believing in every extraordinary story of beings with magic powers until solid evidence of the story's truth is presented.

Since there are thousands upon thousands of stories of magical beings and no proof that any of them are real whatsoever it is perfectly rational to disbelieve in all of them equally - and I'd go so far as to say irrational to believe otherwise. The Judeo-Christian god is no different from any other religious myth in this respect, and in fact you can find many elements of the Yahweh myth present in other competing mythologies from the era and region where the myth originated.


Please read Joe Campbell, and disavow racial prejudices.
 
2012-12-04 08:27:34 PM  

LazarusLong42: Slesfo: I'm a (relatively theologically conservative) pastor, and part time troll on fark (part time enough that nobody recognizes me, but i've been here a LONG TIME), imitating idiot conservatives to vent my frustration about them.

Anyway, my favorite thing to tell members of my church who think that it's adorable to tell kids about Santa is that many people point to their disillusionment about Santa as the first step in their turning away from God, and that by telling them lies about Santa Claus, you demonstrate that you care more about your own amusement than the spiritual destiny of your child.

So you're all right with telling lies about the existence of deities, but you draw the line at telling lies about the existence of Santa? That's some impressive cognitive dissonance, assuming you're not trolling here as well...


har har. Yes yes, God is the same as Santa whatever. I know you guys think that. The difference, the CRUCIAL difference, is that people who tell kids about God ACTUALLY believe in God, whereas very few people who tell kids about santa actually believe in santa.

Even from an Atheist perspective, telling children about Santa is a systematic lie; Telling them about God is merely perpetuating a harmful misconception. there's a real difference between telling a child something you know to be false and telling a child something false which you actually yourself believe. surely you must admit that?
 
2012-12-04 08:28:06 PM  
Everything is so black and white in here.
 
2012-12-04 08:28:11 PM  
I see a bright dividing line here between people that have kids and people that don't.
 
2012-12-04 08:28:24 PM  

Slesfo: I'm a (relatively theologically conservative) pastor, and part time troll on fark (part time enough that nobody recognizes me, but i've been here a LONG TIME), imitating idiot conservatives to vent my frustration about them.


Huh. Never seen you before. Never will again.
 
2012-12-04 08:29:45 PM  

Indubitably: mongbiohazard: Mija: The lie is that God does not exist and that atheists are not religious. You have faith that God is not real. You certainly cannot prove it. You are a sad, angry person who wants to push your beliefs on others while you pretend to be the opposite. You are pathetic.


Actually it makes perfect sense to refrain from believing in every extraordinary story of beings with magic powers until solid evidence of the story's truth is presented.

Since there are thousands upon thousands of stories of magical beings and no proof that any of them are real whatsoever it is perfectly rational to disbelieve in all of them equally - and I'd go so far as to say irrational to believe otherwise. The Judeo-Christian god is no different from any other religious myth in this respect, and in fact you can find many elements of the Yahweh myth present in other competing mythologies from the era and region where the myth originated.

Please read Joe Campbell, and disavow racial prejudices.


P.S. Let kids learn themselves, through experiential exposure to learning opportunity with the best tools available. You can quote me on that.
 
2012-12-04 08:29:47 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My five-year-old niece asked me yesterday, about the reality of Santa Claus. We looked up Saint Nicholas on Wikipedia, and I read to her of some of the things he did to achieve sainthood. We looked at the pictures of how different cultures view Santa Claus, and discussed what she knew about him. Then I turned her question around on her, and asked her "Well, do you believe in Santa Claus?" She told me "Of course! I just saw his pictures!"

She was satisfied, and I was relieved.


The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!
 
2012-12-04 08:29:50 PM  

Millennium: My plan, when I have children, is to tell them that Santa is a game people play, and give them the choice of whether or not to play it too, with the understanding that even if they don't play, it's still considered extremely rude to spoil the game for others.

This teacher is a jerk.


My parents told me santa was a "let's play make believe",made it easier when they decided to not take me to the more expensive santa in one mall but to a cheaper one a block down instead(n, he wasn't a hobo dressed in a Santa suit, thanks for asking)
 
2012-12-04 08:29:59 PM  
Santa is and always was a way to bribe your kids into not be such little shiats. Kids are dumb, they need a reason not to set the cat on fire.
 
2012-12-04 08:31:07 PM  

Gunny Highway: Everything is so black and white in here.


Nope.

It's as colored as the sky...
 
2012-12-04 08:31:11 PM  

timujin: Slesfo: I'm a (relatively theologically conservative) pastor, and part time troll on fark (part time enough that nobody recognizes me, but i've been here a LONG TIME),

well, you're around enough that I have you favorited as: seriously unfunny "Christian" troll


Awww, dang. I try to walk the line and be funny, but sometimes idiotic derp isn't funny anymore. it's a tough line to cross
 
2012-12-04 08:31:39 PM  

Gunny Highway: The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!


Boy, you don't know the half of it! :)
 
2012-12-04 08:31:59 PM  
And the fact there is no Santa is a "harsh reality"? Then maybe we shouldn't have a farking Santa at all. All Santa is is an early indoctrination into believing in imaginary things, like God. Maybe you Christians ought to rethink this. Maybe less of you would leave the church when you reach adulthood if you weren't taught the first thing you REALLY want to believe with all your heart is a fricking sham.

In my heart, the moment Santa went *poof* is the same moment God did. Think about that for a minute, brainiacs.
 
2012-12-04 08:32:41 PM  

mekki: sendtodave: Krymson Tyde: They will learn many truths about the world soon enough. Let them be children and believe in childish things while they can.

Childish beliefs which are taught to them by adults.

Childish adults.

They're five year olds. They believe in childish things because they ARE children.

Santa Claus is a chance for kids to play with their imagination. To imagine how one guy delivers presents all around the world in one night. No one is going to die because a tiny tot believes in a guy with a magic sled and bottomless sack of gifts. Mind you, these same kids will stop believing in him as they grow older without having any permanent damage for believing in the first place.

I know I am in Fark but, man, this thread is full of robots.


And figuring out the truth of Santa on their own is a right of passage of sorts.

The sting of finding out Santa is a lie is almost always softened by finding out it is a lie for the "little kids" and now that they are "big kids" they get to be in on the secret too.
 
2012-12-04 08:33:07 PM  

Indubitably: It's actually possible to be respectful to each other, but online, that filter appears to be lost...

To app

*)


none of us are 'here together' and no one can find anyone else to smack them in the mouth. so, we get true honesty. and trolls.
 
2012-12-04 08:33:27 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Gunny Highway: The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!

Boy, you don't know the half of it! :)


Please don't use that word to start a sentence ever. Thank you.
 
2012-12-04 08:33:42 PM  
I have a 2yo. First time parent. Wife loves Christmas and Santa and stuff, whereas I really think it's a bunch of crap. I was having this conversation with my dad just the other day. He went on and on about how my sister and I loved the whole Santa thing, but how I figured it out. He starts in with the usual "oh what's the harm it's all in good fun." So I waited, and then I finally made my point:

When children figure out their parents have been lying to them their whole life, they ask themselves the next logical question:
If my parents have been lying to me about this, what ELSE have they been lying to me about?

Pretty sure my kid is gonna be that one that ruins Christmas for all the kids in his class, and I am going to get some nasty phone calls from the school and from other parents.
 
2012-12-04 08:33:52 PM  
The My Little Pony Killer:

The lie is that God does not exist and that atheists are not religious. You have faith that God is not real. You certainly cannot prove it. You are a sad, angry person who wants to push your beliefs on others while you pretend to be the opposite. You are pathetic.

/Troll - 3/10

You cannot prove that Thor doesn't exist. Ditto Zeus. Ditto for The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Allah, Atlantis, the Loch Ness Monster, Vampires, Ghosts, Dragons, that Elvis is still alive, Aliens, and an infinite set of other gods, demons, angels, etc.

Your logic is retarded and broken. Most people here know that you can't prove a negative.

If half the kids in the class learn from this to recognize the difference between verifiable or plausible reality and imagination - and that most adults are liars - then the teacher should be given a teacher of the decade award.
 
2012-12-04 08:33:58 PM  

James F. Campbell: Slesfo: I'm a (relatively theologically conservative) pastor, and part time troll on fark (part time enough that nobody recognizes me, but i've been here a LONG TIME), imitating idiot conservatives to vent my frustration about them.

Huh. Never seen you before. Never will again.


let us dream. let us hope and wonder.
 
2012-12-04 08:34:18 PM  
I told my kids that it is fun to pretend there is a Santa. That worked out fine. Now our favorite Santa is the one in the movie "Rare Exports." According to my kids that is the Santa they are going to tell their kids about!
 
2012-12-04 08:34:43 PM  

mekki: I know I am in Fark but, man, this thread is full of robots.


Not robots, just people who have never been parents.
 
2012-12-04 08:34:45 PM  

lewismarktwo: Kids are dumb, they need a reason not to set the cat on fire.


I told my children very early on to shout "FOR SCIENCE!" before they do anything that anybody would find questionable.
 
2012-12-04 08:35:19 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: Indubitably: It's actually possible to be respectful to each other, but online, that filter appears to be lost...

To app

*)

none of us are 'here together' and no one can find anyone else to smack them in the mouth. so, we get true honesty. and trolls.


"...true honesty?"

"Seriously?"
 
2012-12-04 08:35:25 PM  
When I was six my brother came home from school and informed me that Santa Claus was dead. Apparently he was on a boat in a storm and was struck by lightning.

I don't remember when I found out he wasn't real. It didn't really matter after that...
 
2012-12-04 08:35:27 PM  

Indubitably: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Gunny Highway: The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!

Boy, you don't know the half of it! :)

Please don't use that word to start a sentence ever. Thank you.


I looked for a "That's Racist?" gif, but no such luck.
 
2012-12-04 08:35:47 PM  

Krymson Tyde: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm okay with other people minding their own goddamn business.


Particularly when those people are government employees
 
2012-12-04 08:35:50 PM  

Krymson Tyde: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm okay with other people minding their own goddamn business.


I'm at a loss here, because I agree with both of you to an extent. Plus, I didnt rtfa yet.
 
2012-12-04 08:36:05 PM  

jtown: As a former child, I recall a period of bitter resentment as I discovered lie after lie.

My friends and I went through a period like that in elementary school. There was a teacher who was the favorite of students in the school. He always knew how to explain things and had lots of patience and remembered students blah blah blah. He was the "go to" guy for us unlike most of the other teachers.

Anyway, one day he was gone and there was a substitute teacher who dodged questions about what happened so we didn't know why he was gone. They just said our parents would talk to us. So, my parents as well as others had little chats with us about death and how he was gone to a better place and all that and we pretty much got over it being kids with short attention spans and all.

That summer, a group of us had some money so we went to a grocery store to get some candy and we noticed a really weird guy with strange noises coming out of his mouth talking to someone and then he started walking towards us with a completely identical walk like a zombie and half of his face was pretty much just hanging down and he's waving at us.

We started screaming because not only did we think we saw a zombie, one of us noticed the resemblance to our teach so not only was the undead coming after us, it was our teacher risen from the grave. Pretty darned traumatizing to kids.

So, of course we ran away and went to one of our friends parents and told him what happened and he said it couldn't be true that we imagined it and the teacher was gone. Over the next few days this was repeated to us until someone's older brother/whatever told us the truth: our teacher had had a massive stroke and that all of the parents had lied to us.

To make things worse, even when confronted with the truth that they had all lied many stuck to it.

Parents can go full retard hiding things from kids. If they had have explained a stroke maybe we wouldn't have understood but we'd get the "he's very sick" idea and could have made him lots of cards and such for him to have. Instead, they just wrote him off for dead and disillusioned quite a few of us to the honesty we assumed adults had with us.

And, it was just plainly retarded for them to not realize we'd run into him eventually.

That said, I'm totally cool with like the tooth fairy. Kids know they aren't supposed to start spontaneously bleed and lose body parts so when they're really young an explanation of "how it works" isn't likely to get through.
 
2012-12-04 08:36:08 PM  
I'm not sure why it is any teacher's responsibility/ethical mandate to perpetuate a myth foisted upon their little snowflakes by their parents. What other fibs is the teacher supposed to tell, that thunder is God shouting? Or that Fido is 'in doggie heaven'? or stepping on a crack will break mommy's back? How's anyone supposed to keep up with all that?
 
2012-12-04 08:36:20 PM  
Let kids believe in magic for at least a little while, before they grow up and realize that humanity is generally ugly and selfish. They don't get to use Christmas as an excuse to drink too much, at least let them have fairy tales.
 
2012-12-04 08:36:34 PM  

ColSanders: mekki: I know I am in Fark but, man, this thread is full of robots.

Not robots, just people who have never been parents lonely neckbeards who make 4channers look parental and responsible.

 
2012-12-04 08:36:49 PM  

Slesfo: Even from an Atheist perspective, telling children about Santa is a systematic lie; Telling them about God is merely perpetuating a harmful misconception.


which is why I am having trouble with the people in the article and in this thread who are making the comparison between telling a child Santa doesn't exist and telling one that God doesn't exist. I have stated many times that the reason I call myself an atheist even though I "can't prove a negative" is that for me not believing in a god is like not believing in Santa, which is logically consistent. However, it is people that actually believe in God and that don't believe in Santa (one hopes) that are making the comparison between the two.
 
2012-12-04 08:36:54 PM  
Butt-Head Jerk
*Checks article*
Jake it's, Texas
 
2012-12-04 08:36:57 PM  
Oh and the other point I made to the wife and to my dad: why the fark should I allow my kid to think some made-up being gave him all these sweet gifts. I'd much rather he know that he got these presents from Mom and Dad who love him, and that's just what people do this time of year.
 
2012-12-04 08:37:34 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Indubitably: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Gunny Highway: The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!

Boy, you don't know the half of it! :)

Please don't use that word to start a sentence ever. Thank you.

I looked for a "That's Racist?" gif, but no such luck.


Not a Sagittarius, obviously.
 
2012-12-04 08:38:25 PM  
To cessate
 
2012-12-04 08:38:33 PM  
it's refreashing to hear people tell the truth for a change
to bad tommorrow alot of people will be saying, bless you, after someone sneezes and you will reply, thank you, for no farking reason
 
2012-12-04 08:38:37 PM  

Blue_Blazer: I have a 2yo. First time parent. Wife loves Christmas and Santa and stuff, whereas I really think it's a bunch of crap. I was having this conversation with my dad just the other day. He went on and on about how my sister and I loved the whole Santa thing, but how I figured it out. He starts in with the usual "oh what's the harm it's all in good fun." So I waited, and then I finally made my point:

When children figure out their parents have been lying to them their whole life, they ask themselves the next logical question:
If my parents have been lying to me about this, what ELSE have they been lying to me about?

Pretty sure my kid is gonna be that one that ruins Christmas for all the kids in his class, and I am going to get some nasty phone calls from the school and from other parents.


Why are you still talking to you dad? He is a liar and did you a disservice all for his own selfish gain.
 
2012-12-04 08:38:40 PM  
Someone was doubting Konsumer Klaus lives? Oh no my friends, he is alive and well.
 
2012-12-04 08:39:48 PM  
Hm.

I guess the pertinent question is: Why does man cling to myths? Why does he wish for his offspring to do so, as well?
 
2012-12-04 08:41:17 PM  

timujin: Slesfo: Even from an Atheist perspective, telling children about Santa is a systematic lie; Telling them about God is merely perpetuating a harmful misconception.

which is why I am having trouble with the people in the article and in this thread who are making the comparison between telling a child Santa doesn't exist and telling one that God doesn't exist. I have stated many times that the reason I call myself an atheist even though I "can't prove a negative" is that for me not believing in a god is like not believing in Santa, which is logically consistent. However, it is people that actually believe in God and that don't believe in Santa (one hopes) that are making the comparison between the two.


Oh, i see what you're talking about. I'm not making the comparison. I'm referencing critics of Christianity who DO make the comparison. I think it's a terribly invalid comparison (an argument for another time), but it's the comparison that Critics use, and it's the comparison that people who leave Christianity often use.
 
2012-12-04 08:41:47 PM  

haywatchthis: it's refreashing to hear people tell the truth for a change
to bad tommorrow alot of people will be saying, bless you, after someone sneezes and you will reply, thank you, for no farking reason


I honestly can't tell what is real anymore.
 
2012-12-04 08:42:03 PM  

haywatchthis: it's refreashing to hear people tell the truth for a change
to bad tommorrow alot of people will be saying, bless you, after someone sneezes and you will reply, thank you, for no farking reason

So what?


It's a sign of respect for each other, a "watching out for" when we might not mean it even in the moment but overall we'd get it on for, no dashes, should it be a crime to show respect to each other? No. To respect
 
2012-12-04 08:42:22 PM  

Ace Rimmer: mekki: sendtodave: Krymson Tyde: They will learn many truths about the world soon enough. Let them be children and believe in childish things while they can.

Childish beliefs which are taught to them by adults.

Childish adults.

They're five year olds. They believe in childish things because they ARE children.

Santa Claus is a chance for kids to play with their imagination. To imagine how one guy delivers presents all around the world in one night. No one is going to die because a tiny tot believes in a guy with a magic sled and bottomless sack of gifts. Mind you, these same kids will stop believing in him as they grow older without having any permanent damage for believing in the first place.

I know I am in Fark but, man, this thread is full of robots.

And figuring out the truth of Santa on their own is a right of passage of sorts.

The sting of finding out Santa is a lie is almost always softened by finding out it is a lie for the "little kids" and now that they are "big kids" they get to be in on the secret too.


Santa is not a "lie." This is something that, as I read through the thread, I find very odd. Santa is a "story." People seem to have this idea that telling little kids about Santa is done with some malicious intent, the same kind of evil that fraudsters use to bilk people out of money or something. By that metric, anything told to a child that is "not real" is a lie. So is telling a child a fairy tale a "lie"? If you read "The Hobbit" as a bedtime story without carefully explaining in excruciating detail that there's no such thing as hobbits and no such place as Middle Earth, did you just lie to them?

This is a really idiot angle to argue, that Santa is a "lie."
 
2012-12-04 08:43:22 PM  

Gunny Highway: haywatchthis: it's refreashing to hear people tell the truth for a change
to bad tommorrow alot of people will be saying, bless you, after someone sneezes and you will reply, thank you, for no farking reason

I honestly can't tell what is real anymore.


You two, no shiat?

Word.
 
2012-12-04 08:43:41 PM  

ColSanders: mekki: I know I am in Fark but, man, this thread is full of robots.

Not robots, just people who have never been parents.


One's capacity for accepting bullshiat increases after they get older and have kids?

Yeah, that jives with my observations.
 
2012-12-04 08:45:03 PM  

haywatchthis: it's refreashing to hear people tell the truth for a change
to bad tommorrow alot of people will be saying, bless you, after someone sneezes and you will reply, thank you, for no farking reason


When I say "bless you" (not "god bless you") I intend it as a blessing from me meant to convey my hope for the person's good health. I take it the same way from others and that's my farking reason for thanking them.
 
2012-12-04 08:45:22 PM  

possumchild: I'm not sure why it is any teacher's responsibility/ethical mandate to perpetuate a myth foisted upon their little snowflakes by their parents. What other fibs is the teacher supposed to tell, that thunder is God shouting? Or that Fido is 'in doggie heaven'? or stepping on a crack will break mommy's back? How's anyone supposed to keep up with all that?


If asked, the response might be "Ask your parent(s) when you get home"
Not the teachers place to just come out with that statement unasked, as seems to be the case here.
 
2012-12-04 08:45:44 PM  
Indubitably: I honestly can't tell what is real anymore.

I know this class you should take!
 
2012-12-04 08:45:52 PM  

Indubitably: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Indubitably: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Gunny Highway: The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!

Boy, you don't know the half of it! :)

Please don't use that word to start a sentence ever. Thank you.

I looked for a "That's Racist?" gif, but no such luck.

Not a Sagittarius, obviously.


Why, are they lucky? I don't need luck. I'm a Leo. We's just naturally soop supper souperio better.
 
2012-12-04 08:46:30 PM  

haywatchthis: it's refreashing to hear people tell the truth for a change
to bad tommorrow alot of people will be saying, bless you, after someone sneezes and you will reply, thank you, for no farking reason


They are attempting to be polite. I will thank them for their attempt at being polite. The same way that when someone says, "God bless," I say something like, "and you." I don't believe in their mythological gibberish, but I appreciate their intent of wishing me well and will reciprocate the sentiment within their silly context. If the idiom has got a religious connotation or not doesn't matter much.
 
2012-12-04 08:46:48 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Santa is not a "lie." This is something that, as I read through the thread, I find very odd. Santa is a "story." People seem to have this idea that telling little kids about Santa is done with some malicious intent, the same kind of evil that fraudsters use to bilk people out of money or something. By that metric, anything told to a child that is "not real" is a lie. So is telling a child a fairy tale a "lie"? If you read "The Hobbit" as a bedtime story without carefully explaining in excruciating detail that there's no such thing as hobbits and no such place as Middle Earth, did you just lie to them?

This is a really idiot angle to argue, that Santa is a "lie."


noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood

"Mommy, where do Christmas presents come from?"

"Santa Claus brings them!"

That is a lie.
 
2012-12-04 08:46:58 PM  
Should have told the whole truth about it being a way to pass on psychedelic mushroom rituals by pagans when their celebration of the winter equinox was usurped by the Christians.
 
2012-12-04 08:48:08 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Oh, ffs.

There is a big difference between letting little kids have their fantasies about Santa Claus and "lying to kids about God." Guess what: Kids figure out, about age six or seven, that Santa is fake. Often before that, but it's fun for a year or two to pretend you believe in Santa because WHAT IF..... Then there's the year or two that they don't believe in Santa but "We have to pretend because little brother or sister still thinks Santa is real" and it makes them feel all grown up to pretend with the adults for the "babies." (When they're all of 7 or 8)

Pretending like you're enlightening a five-year old because YOU in your adult, non-fantastical, non-religious way, have decided children should not live in a world of lies, it's time to put away childish things, conflating god with Santa, or whatever justification you use for killing the joy in a child's life, is not your call. Five is not a good age to be questioning either god or Santa. Five needs a few absolutes like Disney princesses and Santa Claus. And anyway, it's not up to some substitute kindergarten teacher to make that decision for them.

Ask yourself: Are these kids better off now that someone told them there is no Santa? Are they really going to now decide (at age 5) that there is no god and no Jesus and that Cinderella is really just a marketing tool? Do you think that really makes that much difference in a kid's life, except to ruin a holiday for them?


slowclap.jpg

/fully expected to find some dicks in this thread
//found them
 
2012-12-04 08:48:19 PM  

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


One of these things is not like the other...
 
2012-12-04 08:48:25 PM  

sendtodave: Gyrfalcon: Santa is not a "lie." This is something that, as I read through the thread, I find very odd. Santa is a "story." People seem to have this idea that telling little kids about Santa is done with some malicious intent, the same kind of evil that fraudsters use to bilk people out of money or something. By that metric, anything told to a child that is "not real" is a lie. So is telling a child a fairy tale a "lie"? If you read "The Hobbit" as a bedtime story without carefully explaining in excruciating detail that there's no such thing as hobbits and no such place as Middle Earth, did you just lie to them?

This is a really idiot angle to argue, that Santa is a "lie."

noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood

"Mommy, where do Christmas presents come from?"

"Santa Claus brings them!"

That is a lie.


Are all lies bad?
 
2012-12-04 08:48:34 PM  

sendtodave: Hm.

I guess the pertinent question is: Why does man cling to myths? Why does he wish for his offspring to do so, as well?


Cause one day they will need to believe in something.....like finding a job, dating a good looking girl, getting out of the basemetn and into their own apartment, 3$ a gallon gas, being able to pick a grenade up and throw it out of the fox hole before it explodes....... 

you want them to be optimistic....
 
2012-12-04 08:49:27 PM  

minarke: Indubitably: I honestly can't tell what is real anymore.

I know this class you should take!


Nice try, but I didn't say that, the other guy did. Try again, asshole. Next time, I'm coming to find you to test you.

*)
 
2012-12-04 08:49:29 PM  
Question for parents: Is it OK when your child lies to you? Makes up unbelievable falsehoods to justify their actions?
 
2012-12-04 08:49:31 PM  

sendtodave: ColSanders: mekki: I know I am in Fark but, man, this thread is full of robots.

Not robots, just people who have never been parents.

One's capacity for accepting bullshiat increases after they get older and have kids?

Yeah, that jives with my observations.


Well shiat does come out of the kid that they personally have to deal with.
 
2012-12-04 08:49:41 PM  

Gunny Highway: Blue_Blazer: I have a 2yo. First time parent. Wife loves Christmas and Santa and stuff, whereas I really think it's a bunch of crap. I was having this conversation with my dad just the other day. He went on and on about how my sister and I loved the whole Santa thing, but how I figured it out. He starts in with the usual "oh what's the harm it's all in good fun." So I waited, and then I finally made my point:

When children figure out their parents have been lying to them their whole life, they ask themselves the next logical question:
If my parents have been lying to me about this, what ELSE have they been lying to me about?

Pretty sure my kid is gonna be that one that ruins Christmas for all the kids in his class, and I am going to get some nasty phone calls from the school and from other parents.

Why are you still talking to you dad? He is a liar and did you a disservice all for his own selfish gain.


I know, but he's helped me financially and he's a pretty good guy. He also believes in sky wizard but I still love him.
 
2012-12-04 08:50:32 PM  
My God! All of you helicopter parents proclaiming the children should never be lied to. You lie to them every day, if not every hour. Spinach gave Popeye super strength. Should they not watch that cartoon? Bugs Bunny could talk...rabbits can't talk. Since when was letting a kid unleash his/her imagination unhealthy? And yes...this is for all of you adults that slept with a lottery ticket under your pillow dreaming of winning the big $500mil. Give your kids a break and let them be kids for Christ's sake.
 
2012-12-04 08:51:05 PM  

haywatchthis: it's refreashing to hear people tell the truth for a change
to bad tommorrow alot of people will be saying, bless you, after someone sneezes and you will reply, thank you, for no farking reason


You are sooooo good looking
 
2012-12-04 08:51:17 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Indubitably: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Indubitably: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Gunny Highway: The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!

Boy, you don't know the half of it! :)

Please don't use that word to start a sentence ever. Thank you.

I looked for a "That's Racist?" gif, but no such luck.

Not a Sagittarius, obviously.

Why, are they lucky? I don't need luck. I'm a Leo. We's just naturally soop supper souperio better.


To be a lion in life while cosmologically not: discuss veracity.
 
2012-12-04 08:51:34 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Santa is not a "lie." This is something that, as I read through the thread, I find very odd. Santa is a "story." People seem to have this idea that telling little kids about Santa is done with some malicious intent, the same kind of evil that fraudsters use to bilk people out of money or something. By that metric, anything told to a child that is "not real" is a lie. So is telling a child a fairy tale a "lie"? If you read "The Hobbit" as a bedtime story without carefully explaining in excruciating detail that there's no such thing as hobbits and no such place as Middle Earth, did you just lie to them?

This is a really idiot angle to argue, that Santa is a "lie."


You ever eat a plate of cookies your encouraged your kid to leave out for Bilbo and then later tell 'em that you're sure he enjoyed them? It's the mixing of story and reality that's the deception. Doesn't quite have the malice to be a "lie", but you're intentionally encouraging them to continue thinking what you know to be untrue.

/Be considerate
//Put them on a low table
 
2012-12-04 08:51:42 PM  

Slesfo: timujin: Slesfo: Even from an Atheist perspective, telling children about Santa is a systematic lie; Telling them about God is merely perpetuating a harmful misconception.

which is why I am having trouble with the people in the article and in this thread who are making the comparison between telling a child Santa doesn't exist and telling one that God doesn't exist. I have stated many times that the reason I call myself an atheist even though I "can't prove a negative" is that for me not believing in a god is like not believing in Santa, which is logically consistent. However, it is people that actually believe in God and that don't believe in Santa (one hopes) that are making the comparison between the two.

Oh, i see what you're talking about. I'm not making the comparison. I'm referencing critics of Christianity who DO make the comparison. I think it's a terribly invalid comparison (an argument for another time), but it's the comparison that Critics use, and it's the comparison that people who leave Christianity often use.


Sorry, I think I was unclear. I didn't mean you were making the comparison, rather just expounding on the point about the two arguments.
 
2012-12-04 08:52:08 PM  

Indubitably: haywatchthis: it's refreashing to hear people tell the truth for a change
to bad tommorrow alot of people will be saying, bless you, after someone sneezes and you will reply, thank you, for no farking reason

So what?

It's a sign of respect for each other, a "watching out for" when we might not mean it even in the moment but overall we'd get it on for, no dashes, should it be a crime to show respect to each other? No. To respect


so it would be more appropiate when we fart
 
2012-12-04 08:52:50 PM  
Santa is a minor deity in religion of Coca Cola.


ProfessorOhk
: In aural form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeqthlUY5UY&noredirect=1
Link
 
2012-12-04 08:53:25 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: Coco LaFemme:
Now, when a 40-year-old still believes that a jolly fat man who lives at the top of planet will squeeze himself through their chimney once a year.....then we have a problem.


.... Or that a zombie-deity can hear your unspoken thoughts to grant you wishes; and just to be on the safe you ceremoniously eat his flesh and drink his blood. And you can't forget that of the 6,000 years Earth has been there was once a point where two of EVERY animal on Earth was put on a boat to survive for over a month with a man and his family who later repopulated the planet.

It's a good thing that no one in power in the United States would believe such outlandish fairy tales.


I'm an atheist dear, you're preaching to the choir......to borrow the expression.
 
2012-12-04 08:53:58 PM  
dl.dropbox.com
 
2012-12-04 08:54:02 PM  
However, Krampus is real.
 
2012-12-04 08:54:44 PM  

haywatchthis: Indubitably: haywatchthis: it's refreashing to hear people tell the truth for a change
to bad tommorrow alot of people will be saying, bless you, after someone sneezes and you will reply, thank you, for no farking reason

So what?

It's a sign of respect for each other, a "watching out for" when we might not mean it even in the moment but overall we'd get it on for, no dashes, should it be a crime to show respect to each other? No. To respect

so it would be more appropiate when we fart


Probably.
 
2012-12-04 08:54:52 PM  

flynn80: Should have told the whole truth about it being a way to pass on psychedelic mushroom rituals by pagans when their celebration of the winter equinox was usurped by the Christians.


Whoa! 

rlv.zcache.com
 
2012-12-04 08:54:53 PM  

sendtodave: Question for parents: Is it OK when your child lies to you? Makes up unbelievable falsehoods to justify their actions?


"Hey Dad! SURPRISE! I am planning you a surprise birthday party. It will be next Tuesday at 5:00PM in the park. old friends you havent see in years will be there and i got you that painting you have been searching for all these lomg years. See ya then."

*phone click*

'I wish I had thought that damn kid about lying'
 
2012-12-04 08:55:03 PM  
I've said it before on this site, and it's been proven in this thread. There are some truly miserable people that post on this site.
 
2012-12-04 08:55:51 PM  
Seventeen days.
 
2012-12-04 08:57:06 PM  
Not that big of a deal in the whole big world wide picture of lifes problems.
 
2012-12-04 08:57:31 PM  
I take great delight in shredding the happy facade put into place on most topics in the United States. It's also fun to impart your own fantasies on the minds of the gullible. Now, you may call me a sociopath, but at least I'm not exploiting those topics to gain power or money from it.

It often doesn't work on the intelligent though. I can only assume because it takes a very healthy dose of skepticism to actually become intelligent. For instance a dumb person may look at a math problem and go, "That looks okay. Good enough." -- Where in intelligent person may think, "You know. It seems correct but I'm not completely convinced. Let me see what other solutions I can get."
 
2012-12-04 08:57:44 PM  

MDGeist: Not that big of a deal in the whole big world wide picture of lifes problems.


Apostrophe absent.
 
2012-12-04 08:57:53 PM  

maxalt: Maybe that teacher should find out what it is like to come down the chimney.


Octomom thread?
 
2012-12-04 08:58:41 PM  

possumchild: I'm not sure why it is any teacher's responsibility/ethical mandate to perpetuate a myth foisted upon their little snowflakes by their parents. What other fibs is the teacher supposed to tell, that thunder is God shouting? Or that Fido is 'in doggie heaven'? or stepping on a crack will break mommy's back? How's anyone supposed to keep up with all that?


Where does Santa, religion or anything you consider a myth fit into the lesson plan for five year olds? Let this lower level government employee stick to what she is supposed to be teaching. She and her ilk need to realize their mere education degrees do not make them some all knowing, all powerful social engineers whose job is to contradict the desire of parents in these matters.

Despite the almost $1 trillion combined this country spends on education these government hacks can barely produce a literate product from our school systems. Maybe these union thugs should concentrate on actually doing a better job than they are instead ruining childhoods and trying to usurp parental authority. After all it is the parents who are paying the bills.
 
2012-12-04 08:59:04 PM  

dabbletech: maxalt: Maybe that teacher should find out what it is like to come down the chimney.

Octomom thread?

To entomb

 
2012-12-04 08:59:29 PM  

soupbone: I've said it before on this site, and it's been proven in this thread. There are some truly miserable people that post on this site.


Are we talking about the people that encourage logic, morality, and critical thinking?

Or the ones that are so disappointed with reality that they espouse fantasies?
 
2012-12-04 09:00:33 PM  

hasty ambush: possumchild: I'm not sure why it is any teacher's responsibility/ethical mandate to perpetuate a myth foisted upon their little snowflakes by their parents. What other fibs is the teacher supposed to tell, that thunder is God shouting? Or that Fido is 'in doggie heaven'? or stepping on a crack will break mommy's back? How's anyone supposed to keep up with all that?

Where does Santa, religion or anything you consider a myth fit into the lesson plan for five year olds? Let this lower level government employee stick to what she is supposed to be teaching. She and her ilk need to realize their mere education degrees do not make them some all knowing, all powerful social engineers whose job is to contradict the desire of parents in these matters.

Despite the almost $1 trillion combined this country spends on education these government hacks can barely produce a literate product from our school systems. Maybe these union thugs should concentrate on actually doing a better job than they are instead ruining childhoods and trying to usurp parental authority. After all it is the parents who are paying the bills.


Seriously?

Just stop.

Try paying teachers as much as you pay your bankers/fund-managers/douchebags.
 
2012-12-04 09:00:42 PM  

mekki: Santa Claus is a chance for kids to play with their imagination. To imagine how one guy delivers presents all around the world in one night. No one is going to die because a tiny tot believes in a guy with a magic sled and bottomless sack of gifts. Mind you, these same kids will stop believing in him as they grow older without having any permanent damage for believing in the first place.


Yeah unless your parents are too poor to buy you any presents(no they didn't tell me santa was real), and your classmates assume you didn't get toys because you were bad, and then use that as "justification" for bullying/beating you up for your lunch money.

Many years I recieved nothing for christmas, we were lucky to even have food some years.

but yeah, they may not have damage, but they may cause it.
 
2012-12-04 09:00:44 PM  

Blue_Blazer: Oh and the other point I made to the wife and to my dad: why the fark should I allow my kid to think some made-up being gave him all these sweet gifts. I'd much rather he know that he got these presents from Mom and Dad who love him, and that's just what people do this time of year.


I know. and the other day I had to smack my son's face when I caught him playing with Star Wars action figures, pretending like they were talking to each other and having adventures. "THOSE AREN'T REALLY PEOPLE!" I screamed at him. "THEY CAN'T HAVE ADVENTURES, THEY ARE JUST CHUNKS OF CHEAP PLASTIC, STUPID! GO TO YOUR ROOM UNTIL YOU LEARN TO NOT BE RETARDED!"

Me and you are keeping it real for our kidz, amirite? Fist bump.
 
2012-12-04 09:01:04 PM  

That Guy...From That Show!: jtown: As a former child, I recall a period of bitter resentment as I discovered lie after lie.

That said, I'm totally cool with like the tooth fairy. Kids know they aren't supposed to start spontaneously bleed and lose body parts so when they're really young an explanation of "how it works" isn't likely to get through.


"How it works" made sense to me as a kid. I understood that baby teeth were supposed to fall out and be replaced with larger teeth. Why else would they be called baby teeth? Tho I did fall for the tooth fairy ruse at first. I figured out pretty quick that mom was the one putting the money under my pillow.
 
2012-12-04 09:02:36 PM  
As long as the Internet exists Santa can not
 
2012-12-04 09:02:54 PM  

sendtodave: Question for parents: Is it OK when your child lies to you? Makes up unbelievable falsehoods to justify their actions?


If it means I get presents out of the equation, hell yeah.

My kid can lie and say that moon is actually Santa's secret base and the reason why it's so big is because that's where he makes all the presents. And I wouldn't care if I get a Ipad out of it.
 
2012-12-04 09:03:48 PM  

Indubitably: hasty ambush: possumchild: I'm not sure why it is any teacher's responsibility/ethical mandate to perpetuate a myth foisted upon their little snowflakes by their parents. What other fibs is the teacher supposed to tell, that thunder is God shouting? Or that Fido is 'in doggie heaven'? or stepping on a crack will break mommy's back? How's anyone supposed to keep up with all that?

Where does Santa, religion or anything you consider a myth fit into the lesson plan for five year olds? Let this lower level government employee stick to what she is supposed to be teaching. She and her ilk need to realize their mere education degrees do not make them some all knowing, all powerful social engineers whose job is to contradict the desire of parents in these matters.

Despite the almost $1 trillion combined this country spends on education these government hacks can barely produce a literate product from our school systems. Maybe these union thugs should concentrate on actually doing a better job than they are instead ruining childhoods and trying to usurp parental authority. After all it is the parents who are paying the bills.

Seriously?

Just stop.

Try paying teachers as much as you pay your bankers/fund-managers/douchebags.


*raises hand*

I'll build you a school that succeeds like an engine: we pour in talented teachers with tools, we fire up our students, and our engine of American human innovation will run. Just watch us.
 
2012-12-04 09:04:24 PM  

Delawheredad: I told my kids that it is fun to pretend there is a Santa. That worked out fine. Now our favorite Santa is the one in the movie "Rare Exports." According to my kids that is the Santa they are going to tell their kids about!


Actually that one is probably closer to the real "Santa" then the one we have now.

Real Santa's main job wasn't to give toys to everyone... it was to beat the shiat out of kids who were bad.
 
2012-12-04 09:04:29 PM  

GORDON: Blue_Blazer: Oh and the other point I made to the wife and to my dad: why the fark should I allow my kid to think some made-up being gave him all these sweet gifts. I'd much rather he know that he got these presents from Mom and Dad who love him, and that's just what people do this time of year.

I know. and the other day I had to smack my son's face when I caught him playing with Star Wars action figures, pretending like they were talking to each other and having adventures. "THOSE AREN'T REALLY PEOPLE!" I screamed at him. "THEY CAN'T HAVE ADVENTURES, THEY ARE JUST CHUNKS OF CHEAP PLASTIC, STUPID! GO TO YOUR ROOM UNTIL YOU LEARN TO NOT BE RETARDED!"

Me and you are keeping it real for our kidz, amirite? Fist bump.


What you said has nothing to do with what I said. My kid is welcome to have all the fantasies he wants. But I'm not going to tell him "you need to believe in Darth Vader because otherwise he might find your lack of faith disturbing."

But it's good to know you smack your kid around.
 
2012-12-04 09:04:54 PM  

timujin: Slesfo: timujin: Slesfo: Even from an Atheist perspective, telling children about Santa is a systematic lie; Telling them about God is merely perpetuating a harmful misconception.

which is why I am having trouble with the people in the article and in this thread who are making the comparison between telling a child Santa doesn't exist and telling one that God doesn't exist. I have stated many times that the reason I call myself an atheist even though I "can't prove a negative" is that for me not believing in a god is like not believing in Santa, which is logically consistent. However, it is people that actually believe in God and that don't believe in Santa (one hopes) that are making the comparison between the two.

Oh, i see what you're talking about. I'm not making the comparison. I'm referencing critics of Christianity who DO make the comparison. I think it's a terribly invalid comparison (an argument for another time), but it's the comparison that Critics use, and it's the comparison that people who leave Christianity often use.

Sorry, I think I was unclear. I didn't mean you were making the comparison, rather just expounding on the point about the two arguments.


So it turns out that I didn't RTFA, and didn't realize that people were criticizing the teacher for telling the kids that santa isn't real by saying that it's like a teacher telling them that God isn't real.

Holy shiat people are stupid.
 
2012-12-04 09:04:59 PM  
FTFA: Or as the mom put it on her Facebook page: "Another adult has no right to submit their own beliefs on a group of 5 year olds and their families - about Santa, God, politics or whatever - especially phrased 'your belief is not right.'"

I think the problem here is that the mother still believes in Santa Claus, which is not that surprising, as every year for the last few years she has become Santa Claus at Christmas for her daughter.
 
2012-12-04 09:05:01 PM  
You can't spell disillusioned without illusion.
 
2012-12-04 09:05:24 PM  
BTW, I see a difference between Santa and God. When my sister and I were little, I don't remember my parents threatening us with no Christmas if we didn't behave, because Santa wouldn't come and leave presents under our tree. I do however, remember them telling us that if we didn't pray every night before going to bed, God would be very angry at us and if God was angry at you, bad things would happen. One night I didn't pray before going to bed, I was maybe 8 or 9 years old, and the next morning, I fell down the stairs and broke my ankle. I was convinced that if I had prayed the night before, I wouldn't have a broken ankle. That kind of shiat psychologically scars a child.

Letting a bunch of kids believe in Santa Claus and flying reindeer and the North Pole and elves and Candy Cane Lane and all this other festive stuff that a) kids grow out of and b) only occurs once a year.....what's the farking problem? I don't have kids, but if some 3-year-old asksme if Santa is real, am I supposed to look at him/her and say, "No, your parents are nothing but filthy liars hell-bent on causing you mental pain and anguish, and nothing is real, life is hell"?
 
2012-12-04 09:06:04 PM  

GORDON: Blue_Blazer: Oh and the other point I made to the wife and to my dad: why the fark should I allow my kid to think some made-up being gave him all these sweet gifts. I'd much rather he know that he got these presents from Mom and Dad who love him, and that's just what people do this time of year.

I know. and the other day I had to smack my son's face when I caught him playing with Star Wars action figures, pretending like they were talking to each other and having adventures. "THOSE AREN'T REALLY PEOPLE!" I screamed at him. "THEY CAN'T HAVE ADVENTURES, THEY ARE JUST CHUNKS OF CHEAP PLASTIC, STUPID! GO TO YOUR ROOM UNTIL YOU LEARN TO NOT BE RETARDED!"

Me and you are keeping it real for our kidz, amirite? Fist bump.


The kid already knows they're action figures. Santa is more akin to... to giving your kid a Darth Vader action figure, telling him he's alive but just waiting and if he's not good, it will force choke him in his sleep.
 
2012-12-04 09:07:12 PM  

Blue_Blazer: What you said has nothing to do with what I said. My kid is welcome to have all the fantasies he wants. But I'm not going to tell him "you need to believe in Darth Vader because otherwise he might find your lack of faith disturbing."

But it's good to know you smack your kid around.


*shakes tiny black armored fist*
 
2012-12-04 09:07:14 PM  

BlaqueKatt: mekki: Santa Claus is a chance for kids to play with their imagination. To imagine how one guy delivers presents all around the world in one night. No one is going to die because a tiny tot believes in a guy with a magic sled and bottomless sack of gifts. Mind you, these same kids will stop believing in him as they grow older without having any permanent damage for believing in the first place.

Yeah unless your parents are too poor to buy you any presents(no they didn't tell me santa was real), and your classmates assume you didn't get toys because you were bad, and then use that as "justification" for bullying/beating you up for your lunch money.

Many years I recieved nothing for christmas, we were lucky to even have food some years.

but yeah, they may not have damage, but they may cause it.


Do you think they would have beat you up if you had a "Santa Isn't Real" seminar at preschool orientation? Kids can be cruel, Santa or no.
 
2012-12-04 09:09:10 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Blue_Blazer: What you said has nothing to do with what I said. My kid is welcome to have all the fantasies he wants. But I'm not going to tell him "you need to believe in Darth Vader because otherwise he might find your lack of faith disturbing."

But it's good to know you smack your kid around.

*shakes tiny black armored fist*


It's like telling them that their Darth Vader action figure is their father.
 
2012-12-04 09:10:32 PM  

Gunny Highway: BlaqueKatt: mekki: Santa Claus is a chance for kids to play with their imagination. To imagine how one guy delivers presents all around the world in one night. No one is going to die because a tiny tot believes in a guy with a magic sled and bottomless sack of gifts. Mind you, these same kids will stop believing in him as they grow older without having any permanent damage for believing in the first place.

Yeah unless your parents are too poor to buy you any presents(no they didn't tell me santa was real), and your classmates assume you didn't get toys because you were bad, and then use that as "justification" for bullying/beating you up for your lunch money.

Many years I recieved nothing for christmas, we were lucky to even have food some years.

but yeah, they may not have damage, but they may cause it.

Do you think they would have beat you up if you had a "Santa Isn't Real" seminar at preschool orientation? Kids can be cruel, Santa or no.


Oh, well then, might as well lie to the tykes. Rotten little bastards deserve it.
 
2012-12-04 09:10:50 PM  

sendtodave: ProfessorOhki: Blue_Blazer: What you said has nothing to do with what I said. My kid is welcome to have all the fantasies he wants. But I'm not going to tell him "you need to believe in Darth Vader because otherwise he might find your lack of faith disturbing."

But it's good to know you smack your kid around.

*shakes tiny black armored fist*

It's like telling them that their Darth Vader action figure is their father.


Um,

Quit talking to your kid about his action figures at all?
 
2012-12-04 09:11:24 PM  

ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?


I am OK with this.

I also am OK with asking the kids to ask their partents to provide proof of the existance of any god.
I am also OK with asking the religious people who come to my door to provide any proof what so ever of a supernatural being, any being any proof.

the best any of them have done so far is , "I just have this feeling that there is." basically an emotional need for there to be gods.
 
gja
2012-12-04 09:12:32 PM  

Indubitably: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Gunny Highway: The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!

Boy, you don't know the half of it! :)

Please don't use that word to start a sentence ever. Thank you.


Hey boy......

/is it any better when one ends a sentence with it?
//lighten up Francis
 
2012-12-04 09:13:23 PM  

gja: Indubitably: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Gunny Highway: The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!

Boy, you don't know the half of it! :)

Please don't use that word to start a sentence ever. Thank you.

Hey boy......

/is it any better when one ends a sentence with it?
//lighten up Francis


History: what is it?
 
2012-12-04 09:13:24 PM  
Who is John Galt?
 
2012-12-04 09:13:30 PM  

sendtodave: ProfessorOhki: Blue_Blazer: What you said has nothing to do with what I said. My kid is welcome to have all the fantasies he wants. But I'm not going to tell him "you need to believe in Darth Vader because otherwise he might find your lack of faith disturbing."

But it's good to know you smack your kid around.

*shakes tiny black armored fist*

It's like telling them that their Darth Vader action figure is their father.


That's not true! That's impossible!
 
2012-12-04 09:13:50 PM  
Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.
 
2012-12-04 09:14:44 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.


White lies are what protect you from finding out your Mommy is a hermie
 
2012-12-04 09:14:48 PM  
Yea that would suck, but it isn't going to seriously warp your kid. I mean you are going to have to explain to them why we have Santa anyway.

Also, were any of you upset when you realized there was no Santa? Uh probably not. Wow, a lie with the purpose of having some make believe fun and just pretending? I would be upset if I realized that my parents decided not to celebrate Christmas because it was all make believe anyway (and I'm an athiest).

You think that kids, who will insist that they are Luke Skywalker or something for days to weeks (my sister once demanded to be called "Hockey Nick" for an entire summer) don't understand that we sometimes make things up for fun?
 
2012-12-04 09:14:54 PM  

Indubitably: hasty ambush: possumchild: I'm not sure why it is any teacher's responsibility/ethical mandate to perpetuate a myth foisted upon their little snowflakes by their parents. What other fibs is the teacher supposed to tell, that thunder is God shouting? Or that Fido is 'in doggie heaven'? or stepping on a crack will break mommy's back? How's anyone supposed to keep up with all that?

Where does Santa, religion or anything you consider a myth fit into the lesson plan for five year olds? Let this lower level government employee stick to what she is supposed to be teaching. She and her ilk need to realize their mere education degrees do not make them some all knowing, all powerful social engineers whose job is to contradict the desire of parents in these matters.

Despite the almost $1 trillion combined this country spends on education these government hacks can barely produce a literate product from our school systems. Maybe these union thugs should concentrate on actually doing a better job than they are instead ruining childhoods and trying to usurp parental authority. After all it is the parents who are paying the bills.

Seriously?

Just stop.

Try paying teachers as much as you pay your bankers/fund-managers/douchebags.


Teachers need to try earning it first. They want more money prove they deserve it. As it is for the results we get they are grossly overpaid:

OECD

"OECD countries now spend an average of USD 7,343 per student per year between primary and tertiary education, but this masks a broad range of expenditure across countries. Switzerland and the U.S. spend the most, with average annual outlays per student of more than USD 11,000. At the other end of the scale, Mexico and the Slovak Republic spend around USD 2,000 per student per year. The drivers of expenditure per student vary across countries: among the five countries with the highest expenditure per student, Switzerland and the United States are two of the countries with the highest teachers' salaries at secondary level of education whereas Austria, Denmark and Norway are among the countries with the lowest student to teaching staff ratio.


Spending is not necessarily a guarantee of higher quality in terms of education, though: Australia, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Finland, Japan, Korea, the Netherlands and New Zealand all have moderate expenditure on education per student at the primary and lower secondary levels but are among the countries where 15-year-olds perform strongest in key subject areas."
 
2012-12-04 09:15:04 PM  

Indubitably: gja: Indubitably: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Gunny Highway: The pictures are lies and your niece is a brain washed consumer, you evil fark!

Boy, you don't know the half of it! :)

Please don't use that word to start a sentence ever. Thank you.

Hey boy......

/is it any better when one ends a sentence with it?
//lighten up Francis

History: what is it?


NVM, you are oblivious, no?

Please don't answer.

Thank you.
 
2012-12-04 09:15:34 PM  

sendtodave: soupbone: I've said it before on this site, and it's been proven in this thread. There are some truly miserable people that post on this site.

Are we talking about the people that encourage logic, morality, and critical thinking?

Or the ones that are so disappointed with reality that they espouse fantasies?


Because it's impossible to encourage logic and critical thinking while also encouraging the imagination and creativity of children right? We are talking about young children remember? Fark is full of people that need to mind their own farking business, this story included.
 
2012-12-04 09:15:40 PM  
Last week I convinced my 5 year old daughter and 3 year old son that Krampus is real.
It's pretty damn awesome.
 
2012-12-04 09:16:02 PM  

hasty ambush: Indubitably: hasty ambush: possumchild: I'm not sure why it is any teacher's responsibility/ethical mandate to perpetuate a myth foisted upon their little snowflakes by their parents. What other fibs is the teacher supposed to tell, that thunder is God shouting? Or that Fido is 'in doggie heaven'? or stepping on a crack will break mommy's back? How's anyone supposed to keep up with all that?

Where does Santa, religion or anything you consider a myth fit into the lesson plan for five year olds? Let this lower level government employee stick to what she is supposed to be teaching. She and her ilk need to realize their mere education degrees do not make them some all knowing, all powerful social engineers whose job is to contradict the desire of parents in these matters.

Despite the almost $1 trillion combined this country spends on education these government hacks can barely produce a literate product from our school systems. Maybe these union thugs should concentrate on actually doing a better job than they are instead ruining childhoods and trying to usurp parental authority. After all it is the parents who are paying the bills.

Seriously?

Just stop.

Try paying teachers as much as you pay your bankers/fund-managers/douchebags.

Teachers need to try earning it first. They want more money prove they deserve it. As it is for the results we get they are grossly overpaid:

OECD

"OECD countries now spend an average of USD 7,343 per student per year between primary and tertiary education, but this masks a broad range of expenditure across countries. Switzerland and the U.S. spend the most, with average annual outlays per student of more than USD 11,000. At the other end of the scale, Mexico and the Slovak Republic spend around USD 2,000 per student per year. The drivers of expenditure per student vary across countries: among the five countries with the highest expenditure per student, Switzerland and the United States are two of the countries with the highe ...


You demonstrate ignorance according to a rule...
 
2012-12-04 09:16:02 PM  

jtown: That Guy...From That Show!: jtown: As a former child, I recall a period of bitter resentment as I discovered lie after lie.

That said, I'm totally cool with like the tooth fairy. Kids know they aren't supposed to start spontaneously bleed and lose body parts so when they're really young an explanation of "how it works" isn't likely to get through.

"How it works" made sense to me as a kid. I understood that baby teeth were supposed to fall out and be replaced with larger teeth. Why else would they be called baby teeth? Tho I did fall for the tooth fairy ruse at first. I figured out pretty quick that mom was the one putting the money under my pillow.


Well, sure, and it depends on the experience of a child as well. I've only talked about the tooth fairy when it was obvious the child didn't have knowledge otherwise...for example, a kid with a bunch of older brothers and sisters knows the routine and it's no biggie. Of course, they'd love the cash anyway!
 
2012-12-04 09:16:47 PM  

Lernaeus: Coco LaFemme: However, 5-year-olds are supposed to believe in supernatural/mythical beings. They're kids.

Which is totally why you should treat them like idiots, instead of teaching them the basic skills they need to become independent human beings.

There's nothing wrong with stories and make-believe, but acting like it's real is stupid and insulting to children.


At 5 years old, I really don't think teaching them skills they need to become independent human beings would be paramount. By your account, why drive them 10 miles out of town with only a sleeping bag and canteen and kick them out of the car? That should teach them independence by God! The imagination of a 5 year old is priceless! Why don't you just stomp on on a Faberge Egg?
 
2012-12-04 09:18:01 PM  

sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.


You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?
 
2012-12-04 09:18:34 PM  

Porous Horace: Who is John Galt?


Fuk Ayn Rand.

She was a self-absorbed, self-described, and self-aggrandized douchebag, period.

To overidentify with a fabricated self
 
2012-12-04 09:18:43 PM  

99.998er: Lernaeus: Coco LaFemme: However, 5-year-olds are supposed to believe in supernatural/mythical beings. They're kids.

Which is totally why you should treat them like idiots, instead of teaching them the basic skills they need to become independent human beings.

There's nothing wrong with stories and make-believe, but acting like it's real is stupid and insulting to children.

At 5 years old, I really don't think teaching them skills they need to become independent human beings would be paramount. By your account, why drive them 10 miles out of town with only a sleeping bag and canteen and kick them out of the car? That should teach them independence by God! The imagination of a 5 year old is priceless! Why don't you just stomp on on a Faberge Egg?


Why shouldn't we man?! They have to grow up sometime! We should lower your age to 3 years old.
 
2012-12-04 09:19:19 PM  

Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?


Apostrophe?

*Sigh*
 
2012-12-04 09:19:29 PM  

soupbone: encouraging the imagination and creativity of children


Young children learn from experience that stating an untruth can avoid punishment for misdeeds, before they develop the theory of mind necessary to understand why it works. In this stage of development, children will sometimes tell outrageous and unbelievable lies, because they lack the conceptual framework to judge whether a statement is believable, or even to understand the concept of believability.

When children first learn how lying works, they lack the moral understanding of when to refrain from doing it. This takes years of watching people tell lies, and the results of these lies, to develop a proper understanding. Propensity to lie varies greatly between children, some doing so habitually and others being habitually honest. Habits in this regard are likely to change in early adulthood. -- wikipedia


"Santa knows when you've been bad." - a lie
"I have been very good!" - another lie

Encouraging creativity!
 
2012-12-04 09:19:46 PM  

madgordy: ManateeGag: The My Little Pony Killer: I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies like that.

I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

I am OK with this.

I also am OK with asking the kids to ask their partents to provide proof of the existance of any god.
I am also OK with asking the religious people who come to my door to provide any proof what so ever of a supernatural being, any being any proof.

the best any of them have done so far is , "I just have this feeling that there is." basically an emotional need for there to be gods.

ts4.mm.bing.net

 
2012-12-04 09:20:33 PM  
I love the lefties. One day they're telling you to to let kids be kids, the next, they're telling you to spoil holidays for 5 year olds in the name of truth.
 
2012-12-04 09:20:37 PM  
To ass
 
2012-12-04 09:20:48 PM  

spunkymunky: Last week I convinced my 5 year old daughter and 3 year old son that Krampus is real.
It's pretty damn awesome.


I managed to convince some guys that 9/11 was an inside job, and that Obama isn't American.

To be fair, they probably still believed in Santa Claus, too.
 
2012-12-04 09:20:58 PM  
spunkymunky: It's things like that that make me wish I had kids.
 
2012-12-04 09:21:39 PM  

Indubitably: Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?

Apostrophe?

*Sigh*


Huh?
 
2012-12-04 09:21:43 PM  

sendtodave: spunkymunky: Last week I convinced my 5 year old daughter and 3 year old son that Krampus is real.
It's pretty damn awesome.

I managed to convince some guys that 9/11 was an inside job, and that Obama isn't American.

To be fair, they probably still believed in Santa Claus, too.


Are you keeping score?
 
2012-12-04 09:21:48 PM  

sendtodave: soupbone: encouraging the imagination and creativity of children

Young children learn from experience that stating an untruth can avoid punishment for misdeeds, before they develop the theory of mind necessary to understand why it works. In this stage of development, children will sometimes tell outrageous and unbelievable lies, because they lack the conceptual framework to judge whether a statement is believable, or even to understand the concept of believability.

When children first learn how lying works, they lack the moral understanding of when to refrain from doing it. This takes years of watching people tell lies, and the results of these lies, to develop a proper understanding. Propensity to lie varies greatly between children, some doing so habitually and others being habitually honest. Habits in this regard are likely to change in early adulthood. -- wikipedia

"Santa knows when you've been bad." - a lie
"I have been very good!" - another lie

Encouraging creativity!


Wikipedia Psych 101! Thanks for the child psychology lesson! Now I know why I come to Fark. To learn how to raise kids from the best and brightest in the world.
 
2012-12-04 09:22:07 PM  

Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?


If the kid isn't really sorry, they'd be lying.
 
2012-12-04 09:22:19 PM  

Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?

Apostrophe?

*Sigh*

Huh?


Exactly.
 
2012-12-04 09:25:19 PM  

DreamyAltarBoy: It seems I was born to piss on your fantasies.


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-12-04 09:25:42 PM  

Indubitably: Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?

Apostrophe?

*Sigh*

Huh?

Exactly.


I'm assuming I did something stupid and you are making fun. Continue if you must.
 
2012-12-04 09:26:36 PM  

soupbone: Wikipedia Psych 101! Thanks for the child psychology lesson! Now I know why I come to Fark. To learn how to raise kids from the best and brightest in the world.


Um. All that basically said is that "kids learn that lying works, but they're not very good at it."

Is this incorrect?
 
2012-12-04 09:27:03 PM  
The teacher is a farking moron. Everyone stops believing in Santa Claus in their own time. I don't remember the exact age I stopped believing, but it was a natural transition from myth to reality.
 
2012-12-04 09:27:07 PM  
The kids have become body count in the War on Christmas.
 
2012-12-04 09:27:10 PM  

Indubitably: Porous Horace: Who is John Galt?

Fuk Ayn Rand.

She was a self-absorbed, self-described, and self-aggrandized douchebag, period.

To overidentify with a fabricated self


Um... do you realize that you posted a complete sentence?
Are you feeling ok?
 
2012-12-04 09:27:24 PM  

Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?

Apostrophe?

*Sigh*

Huh?

Exactly.

I'm assuming I did something stupid and you are making fun. Continue if you must.


Awwwww.
 
2012-12-04 09:28:09 PM  

Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?

Apostrophe?

*Sigh*

Huh?

Exactly.

I'm assuming I did something stupid and you are making fun. Continue if you must.


You said "dont." The horror.
 
2012-12-04 09:28:20 PM  

Porous Horace: Indubitably: Porous Horace: Who is John Galt?

Fuk Ayn Rand.

She was a self-absorbed, self-described, and self-aggrandized douchebag, period.

To overidentify with a fabricated self

Um... do you realize that you posted a complete sentence?
Are you feeling ok?


Cute.
 
2012-12-04 09:28:29 PM  
You can be a douchebag all you want to adults, but leave the kids the fark alone.
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-04 09:29:12 PM  

Coco LaFemme: BTW, I see a difference between Santa and God. When my sister and I were little, I don't remember my parents threatening us with no Christmas if we didn't behave, because Santa wouldn't come and leave presents under our tree. I do however, remember them telling us that if we didn't pray every night before going to bed, God would be very angry at us and if God was angry at you, bad things would happen. One night I didn't pray before going to bed, I was maybe 8 or 9 years old, and the next morning, I fell down the stairs and broke my ankle. I was convinced that if I had prayed the night before, I wouldn't have a broken ankle. That kind of shiat psychologically scars a child.


Proof God exists!!!

/and that he micromanages
 
2012-12-04 09:29:24 PM  

Indubitably: Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?

Apostrophe?

*Sigh*

Huh?

Exactly.

I'm assuming I did something stupid and you are making fun. Continue if you must.

Awwwww.


Ohhhhhhhh.
 
2012-12-04 09:29:30 PM  

sendtodave: Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?

Apostrophe?

*Sigh*

Huh?

Exactly.

I'm assuming I did something stupid and you are making fun. Continue if you must.

You said "dont." The horror.


*circle the wagons of dysfunction*
 
2012-12-04 09:30:36 PM  
So I hung up on that two-year-old little snot. Sent him crying. It was a good start to a day that could do nothing but improve as it lived itself out.
 
2012-12-04 09:30:36 PM  
If she did that to one of my kids, I would possibly rape her in such a way as for her to start begging GOD for salvation from me, and then start cursing GOD for how much he is making her suffer, then finally come to the realization that God is not listening to her because she does not truly believe.

It would take a couple of hours, maybe days... but it would happen.


of course that just complete conjecture I would never do that and dont advocate anyone do that.
 
2012-12-04 09:30:40 PM  
Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
Walla Walla, Wash., an' Kalamazoo!
Nora's freezin' on the trolley,
Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-garoo!

Don't we know archaic barrel
Lullaby Lilla Boy, Louisville Lou?
Trolley Molly don't love Harold,
Boola boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!

Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Polly wolly cracker 'n' too-da-loo!
Donkey Bonny brays a carol,
Antelope Cantaloupe, 'lope with you!

Hunky Dory's pop is lolly gaggin' on the wagon,
Willy, folly go through!
Chollie's collie barks at Barrow,
Harum scarum five alarm bung-a-loo!

Dunk us all in bowls of barley,
Hinky dinky dink an' polly voo!
Chilly Filly's name is Chollie,
Chollie Filly's jolly chilly view halloo!

Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Double-bubble, toyland trouble! Woof, woof, woof!
Tizzy seas on melon collie!
Dibble-dabble, scribble-scrabble! Goof, goof, goof!

Tickle salty boss anchovie,
Wash a wash a wall Anna Kangaroo!
Ducky allus bows to Polly,
Prolly Wally would but har'ly do!

Dock us all a bowsprit, Solly,
Golly, Solly's cold and so's ol' Lou!

-Walt Kelly

/the truth is out there
 
2012-12-04 09:31:37 PM  

mattharvest: ManateeGag: I'm sure you'd be ok with an athiest teacher telling a christian student that there is no God too, right?

Why is a school talking about Santa or any other religious figure at all?


Hint: Santa is not a religious figure

when i was in elementary school 30 yrs ago, we talked about Santa and drew pictures of him around christmastime, and he was represented in our school christmas plays.

I'm atheist, but still let my kids have the magic of santa belief when they were kids, right along with the tooth fairy and easter bunny. Sooner or later they find out that its not real, and usually are not traumatized by this realization.

At the same time, I see no reason for this teacher to outright tell kindergartners that santa isn't real and that their parents are lying to them. That's just not called for.
 
2012-12-04 09:31:49 PM  
Only a certain sect of the community is upset that teachers dont perpetuate a lie.
 
2012-12-04 09:32:14 PM  

Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: Indubitably: Gunny Highway: sendtodave: Johnny, I know you broke Mrs. McKinney's window. It is not all right to lie!

But you lied about Santa Claus.

It is not all right for you to lie. To us. Now go tell Ms. McKinney you are sorry.

But I'm not. I hate her.

Tell her anyway!

Parent logic.

You shouldn't apologize for doing something dickish to someone you dont like?

Apostrophe?

*Sigh*

Huh?

Exactly.

I'm assuming I did something stupid and you are making fun. Continue if you must.

Awwwww.

Ohhhhhhhh.


What did you realize?

Here's what I noticed: you forget to apostrophe the "dont".

This fits into my theory about Republicans and apostrophes, but that would be a threadjack, so I shan't, but really?
 
2012-12-04 09:32:47 PM  

sendtodave: soupbone: Wikipedia Psych 101! Thanks for the child psychology lesson! Now I know why I come to Fark. To learn how to raise kids from the best and brightest in the world.

Um. All that basically said is that "kids learn that lying works, but they're not very good at it."

Is this incorrect?


"Encouraging creativity!"

This was the last part of your post suggesting that a belief in Santa = kids learning to lie. I counter that the simple belief in something mythical like Santa stimulates the imagination of children. Again, it's young minds that shouldn't be shown videos of war, death, or any other adult themed chaos. Reality kicks in soon enough and needs no fast forward button.
 
2012-12-04 09:33:10 PM  
Deck the halls with lox and bagels

/channukah carol
 
2012-12-04 09:34:01 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
Walla Walla, Wash., an' Kalamazoo!
Nora's freezin' on the trolley,
Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-garoo!

Don't we know archaic barrel
Lullaby Lilla Boy, Louisville Lou?
Trolley Molly don't love Harold,
Boola boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!

Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Polly wolly cracker 'n' too-da-loo!
Donkey Bonny brays a carol,
Antelope Cantaloupe, 'lope with you!

Hunky Dory's pop is lolly gaggin' on the wagon,
Willy, folly go through!
Chollie's collie barks at Barrow,
Harum scarum five alarm bung-a-loo!

Dunk us all in bowls of barley,
Hinky dinky dink an' polly voo!
Chilly Filly's name is Chollie,
Chollie Filly's jolly chilly view halloo!

Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Double-bubble, toyland trouble! Woof, woof, woof!
Tizzy seas on melon collie!
Dibble-dabble, scribble-scrabble! Goof, goof, goof!

Tickle salty boss anchovie,
Wash a wash a wall Anna Kangaroo!
Ducky allus bows to Polly,
Prolly Wally would but har'ly do!

Dock us all a bowsprit, Solly,
Golly, Solly's cold and so's ol' Lou!

-Walt Kelly

/the truth is out there


Wow.

Dense.

*)
 
2012-12-04 09:35:32 PM  

soupbone: This was the last part of your post suggesting that a belief in Santa = kids learning to lie. I counter that the simple belief in something mythical like Santa stimulates the imagination of children. Again, it's young minds that shouldn't be shown videos of war, death, or any other adult themed chaos. Reality kicks in soon enough and needs no fast forward button.


Reality isn't all that bad. Nothing to hide from. Or hide your children from.
 
2012-12-04 09:35:52 PM  

dopekitty74: Hint: Santa is not a religious figure


hint
yes he is
Saint Nicholas. look it up

interestingly enough with the timing. Tomorrow is the feast of st nicholas
 
2012-12-04 09:36:48 PM  
Reality is the only place where one can find escapes from reality.
 
2012-12-04 09:37:25 PM  

Porous Horace: Deck the halls with lox and bagels

/channukah carol


God Rest Ye Yummy, Gentlemen
 
2012-12-04 09:38:10 PM  

Blue_Blazer: Oh and the other point I made to the wife and to my dad: why the fark should I allow my kid to think some made-up being gave him all these sweet gifts. I'd much rather he know that he got these presents from Mom and Dad who love him, and that's just what people do this time of year.


wouldn't that be worst for them psychologically at that age? ........ that your love for them is based on material gifts?
 
2012-12-04 09:39:59 PM  
"Also, children, that good monster who stays in your room at night to keep you safe from the bad monsters? Not real. There's no bad monster, either; it's just a silly fear based on your developing mind's simplistic understanding that you are an insignificant speck with no ability to control your surroundings.

"And your cousin who died in Afghanistan? Yeah, I know your parents told you he died bravely, but they were lying. His last moments were consumed with fear, and he was screaming for his mommy while his buddies tried to stuff his guts back in. Then he peed himself and died. He came home in a full-sized coffin, but that wasn't really necessary.

"Okay kids, nap time!"
 
2012-12-04 09:40:01 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: As I said, I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies...


And I'm okay with you minding you own goddam business.
 
2012-12-04 09:40:17 PM  

dopekitty74: Sooner or later they find out that its not real, and usually are not traumatized by this realization.


People keep saying this. They'll figure it out sooner or later.

Will you tell them, sooner or later, that you had encouraged them to believe in made up shiat?

That seems the responsible thing to do.
 
2012-12-04 09:41:44 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: Blue_Blazer: Oh and the other point I made to the wife and to my dad: why the fark should I allow my kid to think some made-up being gave him all these sweet gifts. I'd much rather he know that he got these presents from Mom and Dad who love him, and that's just what people do this time of year.

wouldn't that be worst for them psychologically at that age? ........ that your love for them is based on material gifts?


Gifts have been an expression of affection since, well, the first gift ever. That's what gifts are, tokens of affection. I suppose I could try it the old-fashioned way, where my beating the shiat out of them is because I love them, but I like my way better.
 
2012-12-04 09:42:36 PM  

RassilonsExWife: The My Little Pony Killer: As I said, I'm okay with teachers not encouraging lies...

And I'm okay with you minding you own goddam business.


It was the teachers business. You know, teaching children.
 
2012-12-04 09:43:22 PM  
I suspect that we're going to see more and more studies investigating correlation between the rates of children who were robbed of their childhoods, and people in their 20s and 30s who seem to regress to adolescence and postpone adulthood as long as possible.