The Troof hurts: Why get worked up about it? We already lead the world by having the ADA as an example. Why does the UN have any bearing on this?
Crizpin: Not having read the treaty, this is all second hand. My understanding is that the objection came from schooling options available to parents of disabled children. That is, if we signed the treaty, the UN could/would dictate what schools disabled children must attend. Under our constitution, the treaty would trump any state or federal laws which provide for wider options.That said, is there any reason to believe the UN mandates are going to do more to protect the disabled than US laws already on the books? When we're being held to the same standards as China, I seriously doubt it.
randomjsa: I'm sorry but we're well past the point now... Why are you even trying to defend anything the UN does anymore?They are nothing without the United States and would cease to exist in no time at all without us and yet they are a favorite tool of anyone who hates this country to bash it over the head with.Including American liberals.I'm still waiting for Al "Very Concerned About Rape" Franken to propose defunding any organization whose employees have repeatedly been found to have committed rape or employed under aged prostitutes. I'm all for it. Aren't you? If you are then start writing to Obama and Franken, and ask them to withdraw all support and funding for the UN.
Mathematics of Wonton Burrito Meals: Trivia Jockey: No, if you want to look like a fool in the international community.I've literally never understood this argument. Who the fark cares what we look like to the international community? If the international community jumped off a bridge would we look like an asshole for not following along? This is the United States, we do what we want, when we want, however we want and life is pretty great living here aside from when you libs want to tax us all to death. Screw the UN and the international community.
firefly212: John McCain, Bob Dole, and John Kerry all came together to support this bill... but they were voted down by the new Republican Party. If you think you're voting for the GOP of Reagan, or even of the Clinton-era, you're just wrong... these people are through and through whackjobs.
Cletus C.: Not trying to start something, but we have the ADA in this country. Did we need to sign on to something saying we'd obey our own laws?
Philip Francis Queeg: Cletus C.: Not trying to start something, but we have the ADA in this country. Did we need to sign on to something saying we'd obey our own laws?Disabled Americans occasionally travel to other countries.
Grand_Moff_Joseph: Even Farking CHINA ratified this treaty.
CapeFearCadaver: What the holy hell? I'm close to tears with disappointment in our country. What the fark are these people trying to do to? I just cannot understand how it is possible that there are people who think this way, much less enough people who think this way who are in charge of farking policy. Goddammit.
Grand_Moff_Joseph: Diogenes: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Diogenes: I want to find out if Cuba voted for it at the UN.It will make some nice fodder in my strongly-worded letter to Senator Rubio.Cuba voted for the treaty and ratified it.SourceLetter's on its way.Also note that the treaty has been ratified by China, Iran, Russia, and Myanmar.So basically, just about every major human rights violator has signed on, but not America.
Grand_Moff_Joseph: From a Boston.com article:language in the treaty guaranteeing the disabled equal rights to reproductive health care could lead to abortions. Parents, Lee said, will ''raise their children with the constant looming threat of state interference.''
Today's reprehensible treaty rejection in the Sen. should put to rest any hope that the US will ever ratify a serious int'l climate treaty.- David Roberts (@drgrist) December 4, 2012
Today's reprehensible treaty rejection in the Sen. should put to rest any hope that the US will ever ratify a serious int'l climate treaty.
alienated: Oh yeah- F you alleged friends of Bob Dole in the Senate. May you meet an untimely death, the lot of you. And I dont really like Bob Dole ...
NewportBarGuy: I'm assuming you are deaf and mute.
armoredbulldozer: Vote NO on ANYTHING the UN proposes. Besides, we are all in good hands of the "Anointed One."GET US OUT OF THE UN !!!
skullkrusher: Keizer_Ghidorah: "Herp derp, people wonder why they voted no about this, what a bunch of whiny handwringing pussies!"ahh, rational discussion like this? I wonder myself why they voted no on this - I find their reasoning to be quite suspect. Rationally speaking, why would you "herp derp" a sentence implying that I said otherwise when I quite clearly stated already that I had serious issues with their reasoning to vote no?Do you not understand what I wrote or have you forgotten already? Maybe you're hoping that I forgot what I wrote and you're perhaps trying to slip a little dishonesty in there? Nothing screams "pay attention to the important point I am about to make!" like putting a "herp derp" in your post
skullkrusher: Keizer_Ghidorah: And this would also ensure our disabled in those countries would remain safe.Forgot to respond to that part. Do you not care about that?No I didn't. This treaty doesn't have the force of law so even if a country signs it, it does not magically make disabled people well taken care of.I bolded it for you.Keizer_Ghidorah: Seriously, why do people like you feel the need to act like assholes towards the rest of the world for no reason?people like me? I didn't vote against the treaty. I would've voted for it as I see no credible reason not to. This is of course why I am more perturbed by the reasoning behind voting against it much more than I am concerned that people voted against it.Of course, I'm not a handwringing farkhead so maybe that's where our disconnect lies?
skullkrusher: Keizer_Ghidorah: Tell the world to be more like America, world decides to be more like America, sneer and snarl at the world for wanting to be more like America.sure, be more like America. Pass laws protecting your people in your country like we did. This doesn't do that. This is an agreement to do that. Since we already did put the agreement into practice and our practice is the basis FOR the agreement, I'm not terribly upset.Keizer_Ghidorah: Seriously, what is wrong with you people?in what regard? Finding the frightening level of paranoia used as justification to reject this treaty as the only truly upsetting aspect of the whole thing? Sorry.
skullkrusher: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Well, if the current Yay votes remain in place, the Dems can get a couple of votes closer when the new Senators come in.sweet! I hope this meaningless piece of congressional business is resolved in the affirmative post haste! How else are we going to lead the world in compassion and equitable treatment for the disabled unless we sign a powerless treaty based on laws we already passed and govern ourselves with?!/hope the snark wasn't too thick
Seth'n'Spectrum: The Republicans want the U.S. to have absolute freedom of action in all manners so as to never have obligations. This isn't a policy based on rationalism, it's one based on very, very rigid adherence to theoretical dogma.
Arkanaut: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Even Farking CHINA ratified this treaty.I wonder if Chen Guangcheng (you know, the blind Chinese lawyer/activist) can come out and say something about this. A lot of Republicans like him because he once defended a woman who was forced to get an abortion, but his big crusade is actually about rights of the disabled. I'm sure he'll be disappointed to know that some of his sponsors voted against his cause.Also, this is just appalling:They were not swayed by support for the treaty from some of the party's prominent veterans, including the 89-year-old Dole, who was disabled during World War II; Sen. John McCain, who also suffered disabling injuries in Vietnam;...I can't help but feel sorry for Bob Dole, dragging his old ass all this way to Washington just to see his own party trash his cause.I'd also want to know who the 22 Dems were who voted against this treaty, and what they got in return.
hawcian: Talondel: Philip Francis Queeg: It appears that YOU care about the positive affect it might have for disabled American citizens who travel abroad.That assumes that other governments would base their decision to adopt or reject the treaty on what we here in the US do with it, which is not only unfounded but contradicted by the article:The treaty, already signed by 155 nations and ratified by 126 countries, including Britain, France, Germany, China and Russia, states that nations should strive to assure that the disabled enjoy the same rights and fundamental freedoms as their fellow citizens.qorkfiend: You don't get what the UN is all about, do you?I get that it doesn't matter if the US joins the treaty or not, unlike the vast majority of people posting in this thread. Countries that want to join and be bound by the treaty (including the 126 that already have) are still free to do so. This vote doesn't have any impact on them.Joining the treaty would not have affected current law in the US one bit (and that is according to those who supported it). The only way it may have benefited Americans is if the US joining the treaty encouraged other countries to join, but as I already pointed out, that argument is specious at best. But hey, count on Fark to make a big deal out of something that won't actually do a damn thing to actually help the disabled.Except that the Senate has bills that do effectively nothing all the damn time. Blocking this out of some absurd notion that it somehow breeches US sovereignty (or something something abortions!) is ridiculous. It's basically saying we won't reaffirm the rights of disabled people because NEENER NEENER YOU CAN'T TELL US WHAT TO DO! It's the kind of gesture that makes us look like idiotic assholes, which is something to be reasonably perturbed about.
The Troof hurts: flux: The Troof hurts: It's a feelgood measure. Big deal. Wake me up when they get rid of the ADA.Yes it is. So why block it?Why get worked up about it? We already lead the world by having the ADA as an example. Why does the UN have any bearing on this? These countries should have passed their own version of the ADA by now if they were serious about helping disabled folks. Instead, they sign on to a treaty with no balls as a feelgood measure. We still lead the world. Everyone needs to calm down with the faux-rage.
Uranus Is Huge!: FACT: ALL treaties are a threat to our sovereignty.
Darth_Lukecash: Holy crap- poor Bob Dole... Brought out for support-only to be farked by his own party.
CynicalLA: Someone here actually thinks their opinion is highly regarded and not part of the same peanut gallery. Too funny.
skullkrusher: Ahh the peanut gallery ad hom. Your specialty.
skullkrusher: I knew you were an idiot. I just didn't know you were a Republican idiot.
Headso: Mrbogey: Non-signatory countries won't honor any protections and signatories would almost universally guarantee them.you would think but the country's laws that the treaty was modeled after didn't even sign it.
skullkrusher: CynicalLA: skullkrusher: You just white knighted for a guy who is saying that the Republicans who voted for this treaty are "traitors".I knew you were an idiot. I just didn't know you were a Republican idiot. I'll make a note of it.A lot ASSumptions right there. I wouldn't expect anymore from you and keep up the good work.no, no ASSumptions needed. It's right here in the thread. CapeFearCadaver also noticed.
The Troof hurts: Princess Ryans Knickers: The Troof hurts: PrincessYes, he would. But then would he turn around and deny bread to another after giving bread to the first? Would you kindly remind me what Jesus said about hypocrits?Who is being denied anything? Anyone with disabilities has far more rights here than in almost any other country on the planet. How does some BS UN treaty affect this?
LordJiro: Republicans are complete, utter scum. This should surprise nobody. If you vote Republican, you are an asshole, period. There are different CATEGORIES of asshole, sure (Rich asshole, fundamentalist asshole, bigoted asshole, just plain stupid asshole, etc.), and combinations thereof, but no matter which category you fall under, YOU. ARE. AN. ASSHOLE.
Grand_Moff_Joseph: For the record (and the dumpsters of history), here are your 38 elected senators who have a problem with equal treatment for disabled people. Notice what they all have in common with each other???Nays - 38Alexander (R-TN)Blunt (R-MO)Boozman (R-AR)Burr (R-NC)Chambliss (R-GA)Coats (R-IN)Coburn (R-OK)Cochran (R-MS)Corker (R-TN)Cornyn (R-TX)Crapo (R-ID)DeMint (R-SC)Enzi (R-WY)Graham (R-SC)Grassley (R-IA)Hatch (R-UT)Heller (R-NV)Hoeven (R-ND)Hutchison (R-TX)Inhofe (R-OK)Isakson (R-GA)Johanns (R-NE)Johnson (R-WI)Kyl (R-AZ)Lee (R-UT)McConnell (R-KY)Moran (R-KS)Paul (R-KY)Portman (R-OH)Risch (R-ID)Roberts (R-KS)Rubio (R-FL)Sessions (R-AL)Shelby (R-AL)Thune (R-SD)Toomey (R-PA)Vitter (R-LA)Wicker (R-MS)
Talondel: I'm late to this party and relatively certain no one will read this, but I have to ask: Who cares?The U.S. is already one of the most progressive countries in the world when it comes to providing for the disabled. Here we have both the federal ADA, and most states have something roughly equivalent. The majority of other countries, even those we often consider to be more progressive or advanced than us, have no similar law.Spend some time traveling with a disabled person in Europe, Asia, or the Middle East and you'll quickly see the differences. Sidewalks and doorways are not wide enough to accommodate a standard size wheelchair. Buildings that can only be accessed by stairs are everywhere. No one has a handicapped friendly public rest room (and if they did it probably wouldn't matter, since there's a decent chance it would be on another floor of the building that can only be reached by stairs).
Shrugging Atlas: What the fark is WRONG with these people. You vote against THIS??
Cletus C.: Not trying to start something, but...
Mrbogey: 92myrtle: FWIW...here are the traitors who...Labeling people who voted against your desires as traitors reveals a lot about you. Specifically why you should be ignored in serious discussions on govt.
Mrbogey: Labeling people who voted against your desires as traitors reveals a lot about you.
Uranus Is Huge!: FACT: ALL treaties are a threat to our sovereignty./RON PAUL!!!11!
Mrbogey: You clearly never read his bill. It didn't address protecting women from rape.It requires literacy to realize this.
jj325: The conservative Heritage Action for America urged senators to vote no against the treaty, saying it would be recorded as a key vote on their scorecardScorecards. Pledges. Why does the GOP make a mockery of our political system?
degenerate-afro: Well after Santorum (warning: WND derp) came out against the action, you know there was no chance for it.The most offensive provision is found in Section 7 of the treaty dealing specifically with children with disabilities. That section reads:"In all actions concerning children with disabilities, the best interests of the child shall be a primary consideration."
Mrbogey: Why should the US sign a treaty that provides nothing more than a bureaucracy?
Grand_Moff_Joseph: From Wiki:There are eight guiding principles that underlie the Convention:--Respect for inherent dignity, individual autonomy including the freedom to make one's own choices, and independence of persons
Grand_Moff_Joseph: kbronsito: Keep the stories coming please! Great stuff!
James F. Campbell: these people
The Why Not Guy: If you're a Republican or vote Republican, there's something fundamentally wrong with you. This becomes more truth and less "painting with a broad brush" every day.Oh well, at least you really stuck it to the Libs, right?
naughtyrev: I think they are worried that if we give equal treatment to the disabled, next thing you know, the mentally disabled will be winning elections and you'll have morons voting down sensible treaties in the Senate and....oh.
mrshowrules: Here are the pro-rape and anti-disabled Senators:Alexander (R-TN)Burr (R-NC)Chambliss (R-GA)Coburn (R-OK)Cochran (R-MS)Corker (R-TN)Cornyn (R-TX)Crapo (R-ID)DeMint (R-SC)Enzi (R-WY)Graham (R-SC)Inhofe (R-OK)Isakson (R-GA)Kyl (R-AZ)McConnell (R-KY)Risch (R-ID)Roberts (R-KS)Sessions (R-AL)Shelby (R-AL)Thune (R-SD)Toomey (R-PA)Vitter (R-LA)Wicker (R-MS)
Corvus: Grand_Moff_Joseph: CapeFearCadaver: What the holy hell? I'm close to tears with disappointment in our country. What the fark are these people trying to do to? I just cannot understand how it is possible that there are people who think this way, much less enough people who think this way who are in charge of farking policy. Goddammit.The worst part is, these fools keep getting elected.Serious. How in the hell has not every sane person not left the GOP by now?
Grand_Moff_Joseph: CapeFearCadaver: What the holy hell? I'm close to tears with disappointment in our country. What the fark are these people trying to do to? I just cannot understand how it is possible that there are people who think this way, much less enough people who think this way who are in charge of farking policy. Goddammit.The worst part is, these fools keep getting elected.
Grand_Moff_Joseph: For the record (and the dumpsters of history), here are your 38 elected senators who have a problem with equal treatment for disabled people. Notice what they all have in common with each other???
Eddie Adams from Torrance: Look, you libtards don't understand about what US Sovereignty means. Let me explain it to you.Sovereignty means that; it's sovereign. I mean, you're a - you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And therefore the relationship between the federal government and the UN is one between sovereign entities.
Grand_Moff_Joseph: and that language in the treaty guaranteeing the disabled equal rights to reproductive health care could lead to abortions.
kbronsito: Quite the opposite. That language is meant to keep the disabled from a) being denied reproductive health care because they (and their potentially disabled offspring) are not worth the investment or b) being forced to have an abortion because they are not considered able to care for a child or c) being forcibly sterilized for the same reasons
Corvus: WHY ARE INTERNATIONAL TRADE AGREEMENTS NEVER A THREAT TO US SOVEREIGNTY TO REPUBLICANS? IT'S ONLY WHEN WE TRY TO HELP PEOPLE?
Cyberluddite: IIRC, this was the issue that Rick "Frothy Mixture" Santorum was pushing them on. So they actually went full retard--again. Wow.
kbronsito: I attended several of the negotiation rounds for this treaty. I've read the whole thing and participated in meetings to select language. I'm pretty sure it doesn't include anything in there that would allow the UN to take over America... sure, the middle eastern countries included some language about making sure the disabled were protected in occupied territories to see if they could make israel look bad... but that was moved from the treaty into the non-binding preable.also the mid-east countries took out all the language about allowing people with disabilities receive information about sexuality (which was stupid because as a non-discrimiantion treaty it only asked that they be given the same information as their non-disabled peers. So if your country is run by a bunch of primitive prudes that provide zero information on sexuality to its citizens, you were free to do that for the disabled as well).
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