bobtheallmighty: Darth_Lukecash: You buy a Mac so you don't have to worry about the insides.I think most computer problems stem from stupidity of do it yourself people.Hey, just because youre paralyzed by fear everytime you open the side of a computer dosent mean other people dont know what they are doing,/built all my own computers.//still have an old intell P2 that runs, it beat the odds.
Darth_Lukecash: You buy a Mac so you don't have to worry about the insides.
gadian: First thing I ever learned how to replace on my computer was the memory. The second was the hard drive. These are the basics, like being able to change your own tires. If you can't change a hard drive or memory yourself, you don't need to own a computer.
t3knomanser: FinFangFark: So you've never experienced a HDD failure in all those years?Nope. Last HDD failure on a machine I owned was... um... 1999? I might have had one circa 2001.namatad: THE FUNNIEST part about that whole statistics thing: some parts fail before the mean and some parts fail after the mean. For every person who has never had a problem, there is a person who has had a problem.I do understand how statistics works. It's called an "acceptable rate of failure". And let's be honest, MTBF is usually not a normal distribution. First, there are usually two peaks: the parts that fail very early, and the parts that fail near the MTBF. Parts that fail early are covered by some kind of warranty. Between that point and the MTBF, you have a low rate of failure, increasing up the curve as you hit the MTBF. If the MTBF is large enough relative to the expected lifetime, the number of failures in production will be very low.T.rex: Its a scam.... They are forcing the consumer to buy the more expensive unit.It's not quite a scam. Apple certainly doesn't mind the fact that they get you to upgrade through them, but y'know what? I'm willing to bet that even before they went this route, most people doing upgrades did it through Apple. Your average user isn't going to install a RAM chip themselves. They're not going to swap a HDD.So, yeah- Apple definitely appreciates the extra profit on the high-margin parts they upgrade with, but this really is driven by their design constraints, not their profit margins. Apple solders the RAM to the mainboard in their new line of MacBooks because it's cheaper and slimmer than a socket. And the market has responded: people prefer buying slimmer laptops to upgradeable laptops.Whether this will translate to the desktop is an open question, but I think the sorts of people that would contemplate a Mac desktop are also the sorts of people who would appreciate the form factor.Myself, if I were getting a desktop, I'd go for the big honkin' full tower, because the only reason to prefer a desktop is ports and upgradeability. Otherwise, I can't see a reason why I'd want a desktop when I could have a laptop instead.
jtown: If a bargain builder like Acer could manage this 2 years ago, surely Apple could manage it today.Stock photo with power adapter for approximate scale:
Bschott007: That said, working in a repair shop, I happen to have at least 2-3 customer computers on my bench a week with bad, failed or failing drives.
HeartBurnKid: bobtheallmighty: Darth_Lukecash: You buy a Mac so you don't have to worry about the insides.I think most computer problems stem from stupidity of do it yourself people.Hey, just because youre paralyzed by fear everytime you open the side of a computer dosent mean other people dont know what they are doing,/built all my own computers.//still have an old intell P2 that runs, it beat the odds.I always wonder at the people who say shiat like that. I mean, it's not even hard to build a computer anymore. You don't worry about IRQs, or Master/Slave Drives, or any of that garbage; you just make sure your processor is on your motherboard's support list, and stick everything in the socket where it fits. It's like playing with Legos these days, except when you're done, you have a new computer.
NewWorldDan: I spent $500 at NewEgg for an awesome and completely upgradable PC with nearly the same specs as the iMac, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies. What kind of idiot spends $1500 for a low-end UGLY desktop PC? Oh, wait, it's a Mac. Nevermind. They've got the best marketing department in the world.
t3knomanser: Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.
Rwa2play: Darth_Lukecash: You buy a Mac so you don't have to worry about the insides.I think most computer problems stem from stupidity of do it yourself people.You mean you LIKE spending $1500-2000 per machine once it's out of style?
t3knomanser: I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.
PsyLord: Obligatory Apple Fanboi retort: Why would you need to upgrade something that is already perfect?
the_vicious_fez: You don't live in my family. My dad just ripped his MBP apart for a RAM upgrade (he's a retired journalist, before you come in with the "must be an engineer" comments) and now he's contemplating swapping in an SSD. All I'm doing is helping him spec. I take your point for the general population, and he's certainly not buying an iMac, but my point is there is a very legitimate use case for upgradeability even in Macs, and there are plenty of Mac users to take advantage of it even if it's not anything like a majority of them.
StrangeQ: People that actually know about computers shouldn't care about this since they would never buy a Mac to begin with.
Surool: t3knomanser: Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.THIS.Also, most laptops are also difficult to upgrade, Apple or not. Nobody who would upgrade later is likely to buy a machine like this.
T.rex: I think the matter of contention is that Apple will charge you an arm and a leg to get a unit with a huge hard drive and tons of RAM, when, really, the user could've made those same upgrades to a lower (but otherwise identical) unit for pennies on the dollar. Its a scam.... They are forcing the consumer to buy the more expensive unit.
t3knomanser: downstairs: Because hard drives and memory never fail?The issue is: what's the MTBF. For memory, it's already pretty high. And with SSDs, you're getting into that neighborhood.The only time I've ever had a RAM stick fail was when I gave it a good static shocking. It's been a long time since I've had a HDD failure of any stripe. Just going on raw probabilities: the chances of these parts failing when the product is outside of warranty and isn't due for replacement in some fashion is pretty slim.Some of us buy a tower and keep it for decades, gradually upgrading parts like Theseus's ship. Most of us change over computers entirely every 2-5 years. I keep myself on a 3-ish year upgrade cycle. The MTBF for most parts is much larger than that.
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