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(Ars Technica)   Now you can add 'Hard Drive' to the list of things you can't upgrade in a new iMac   (arstechnica.com) divider line 195
    More: Fail, iMacs, iFixit, metal spinning, SATA, secondary markets, Apple SSD, connectedness, library  
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6065 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Dec 2012 at 2:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-04 01:35:27 PM  
Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.

I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.
 
2012-12-04 01:44:17 PM  
You buy a Mac so you don't have to worry about the insides.

I think most computer problems stem from stupidity of do it yourself people.
 
2012-12-04 01:50:26 PM  

t3knomanser: Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.

I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.


sure, but, even with an all in one, it is nice to be able to replaced failed memory or hard-drive.
and you have to admit, using glue to seal the case is a bit lame
 
2012-12-04 02:01:18 PM  

namatad: using glue to seal the case is a bit lame


Depends on the constraints. For that form factor, you don't really have a lot of other options.
 
2012-12-04 02:08:06 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: You buy a Mac so you don't have to worry about the insides.



Because hard drives and memory never fail?
 
I understand that the whole Mac model is "set it and forget it"... which is great for 90% of computer users.  But, still, you need to be able to replace (not upgrade) hard drives and memory.
 
2012-12-04 02:16:45 PM  

downstairs: Because hard drives and memory never fail?


The issue is: what's the MTBF. For memory, it's already pretty high. And with SSDs, you're getting into that neighborhood.

The only time I've ever had a RAM stick fail was when I gave it a good static shocking. It's been a long time since I've had a HDD failure of any stripe. Just going on raw probabilities: the chances of these parts failing when the product is outside of warranty and isn't due for replacement in some fashion is pretty slim.

Some of us buy a tower and keep it for decades, gradually upgrading parts like Theseus's ship. Most of us change over computers entirely every 2-5 years. I keep myself on a 3-ish year upgrade cycle. The MTBF for most parts is much larger than that.
 
2012-12-04 02:31:32 PM  

t3knomanser: downstairs: Because hard drives and memory never fail?

The issue is: what's the MTBF. For memory, it's already pretty high. And with SSDs, you're getting into that neighborhood.

The only time I've ever had a RAM stick fail was when I gave it a good static shocking. It's been a long time since I've had a HDD failure of any stripe. Just going on raw probabilities: the chances of these parts failing when the product is outside of warranty and isn't due for replacement in some fashion is pretty slim.

Some of us buy a tower and keep it for decades, gradually upgrading parts like Theseus's ship. Most of us change over computers entirely every 2-5 years. I keep myself on a 3-ish year upgrade cycle. The MTBF for most parts is much larger than that.


So you've never experienced a HDD failure in all those years?
 
2012-12-04 02:31:58 PM  

t3knomanser: namatad: using glue to seal the case is a bit lame

Depends on the constraints. For that form factor, you don't really have a lot of other options.


I was thinking about that ...
they could have used magnet latches a bit in from the edge. so you need a special magnetic key to turn the invisible internal screw ...

of course, this would go horribly wrong if the screw got stuck
 
2012-12-04 02:32:09 PM  
I use computers for 3-4 years then replace them. There's no point in upgrading since new processors and other stuff constantly turn up.
 
2012-12-04 02:33:30 PM  

t3knomanser: Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.

I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.


Only Fark Independents(tm) stuck in the 80s.
 
2012-12-04 02:33:35 PM  

t3knomanser: downstairs: Because hard drives and memory never fail?

The issue is: what's the MTBF. For memory, it's already pretty high. And with SSDs, you're getting into that neighborhood.

The only time I've ever had a RAM stick fail was when I gave it a good static shocking. It's been a long time since I've had a HDD failure of any stripe. Just going on raw probabilities: the chances of these parts failing when the product is outside of warranty and isn't due for replacement in some fashion is pretty slim.

Some of us buy a tower and keep it for decades, gradually upgrading parts like Theseus's ship. Most of us change over computers entirely every 2-5 years. I keep myself on a 3-ish year upgrade cycle. The MTBF for most parts is much larger than that.


THE FUNNIEST part about that whole statistics thing: some parts fail before the mean and some parts fail after the mean. For every person who has never had a problem, there is a person who has had a problem.
 
2012-12-04 02:33:56 PM  

L.D. Ablo: I use computers for 3-4 years then replace them. There's no point in upgrading since new processors and other stuff constantly turn up.


thanks for that Mr Landfill.
 
2012-12-04 02:34:55 PM  
Remember when everyone complained during the 80s and 90s about how you couldn't work on your own car any more?
 
2012-12-04 02:35:59 PM  
Isn't that one of the benefits of buying a mac? That you don't have to know anything about computers other than how to use the interface?
 
2012-12-04 02:39:02 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: You buy a Mac so you don't have to worry about the insides.

I think most computer OPERATING problems stem from stupidity of do it yourself people.


Hardware DIY people (myself included) are generally the types of folks people go to to solve their problems. With hardware, idiots recognize that they have no idea what the guts do and leave it alone, unlike software. Deleting any specific file (jdbgmgr.exe anyone?) takes no special knowledge and therefore is easily done and leads to more issues (quantity and quality) as opposed to swapping out a drive or stick of ram.

/Win 7-64 Pro, 6 core AMD 1090T OC'd to 3.37GHz, 16 Gig Ram, on a 1TB RAID 0 Array
//Suck it Apple
 
2012-12-04 02:40:43 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: I think most computer problems stem from stupidity of do it yourself people.


no
 
2012-12-04 02:41:15 PM  
I think the matter of contention is that Apple will charge you an arm and a leg to get a unit with a huge hard drive and tons of RAM, when, really, the user could've made those same upgrades to a lower (but otherwise identical) unit for pennies on the dollar. 

Its a scam.... They are forcing the consumer to buy the more expensive unit.
 
2012-12-04 02:42:05 PM  
I think we get so used to talking with other tinkering, technie types that we grossly overestimate the amount of the population that really cares. I personally love to upgrade here and there, and would not want an iMac if I couldn't, but it's not 10% of the population that's upgrading their computers. I'll bet it's more like 0.1%. Seriously.

As for repairs... well... all-in-one devices with an awesome design just aren't going to be easily serviceable. How often does RAM break down anyway? I've found that power supplies/motherboards/video cards are more often the failure point.
 
2012-12-04 02:43:35 PM  

namatad: THE FUNNIEST part about that whole statistics thing: some parts fail before the mean and some parts fail after the mean. For every person who has never had a problem, there is a person who has had a problem.


i0.kym-cdn.com

Farking standard distribution around the mean, how does it work?
 
2012-12-04 02:48:45 PM  
www.macrobusiness.com.au
 
2012-12-04 02:48:59 PM  
fark it, just get an Alienware.
 
2012-12-04 02:53:14 PM  
Um, most iMacs have been very unfriendly to upgrades, with the exception of the original g5 iMac.
 
2012-12-04 02:53:18 PM  
I didn't know there was a list. I thought it was just "everything." Also called "buying a mac."
 
2012-12-04 02:53:39 PM  

Pincy: Isn't that one of the benefits of buying a mac? That you don't have to know anything about computers other than how to use the interface?


Yeah. In an odd way, not being able to do anything with it justifies the premium pricing.

If you aren't that type of consumer it will never make sense.
 
2012-12-04 02:57:05 PM  

FinFangFark: t3knomanser: downstairs: Because hard drives and memory never fail?

The issue is: what's the MTBF. For memory, it's already pretty high. And with SSDs, you're getting into that neighborhood.

The only time I've ever had a RAM stick fail was when I gave it a good static shocking. It's been a long time since I've had a HDD failure of any stripe. Just going on raw probabilities: the chances of these parts failing when the product is outside of warranty and isn't due for replacement in some fashion is pretty slim.

Some of us buy a tower and keep it for decades, gradually upgrading parts like Theseus's ship. Most of us change over computers entirely every 2-5 years. I keep myself on a 3-ish year upgrade cycle. The MTBF for most parts is much larger than that.

So you've never experienced a HDD failure in all those years?


I've owned computers since 1987 (always had a PC but I've owned a few Apples over that time as well). I have had exactly one hard drive ever fail on me.
 
2012-12-04 03:00:30 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Pincy: Isn't that one of the benefits of buying a mac? That you don't have to know anything about computers other than how to use the interface?

Yeah. In an odd way, not being able to do anything with it justifies the premium pricing.

If you aren't that type of consumer it will never make sense.


That being said, I've had two of them, each for 7 years. I've swapped out memory in both. Replaced the hard drive in one of them. Having video card problem with the second one. Boggles the mind that they've made them even harder to fix, even if it's not something you'd do frequently (if at all).

They've generally both worked very well throughout the 7 years I've had them and they are still being used to this day.

Both have been replaced with PCs, one as recently as last week. I've had more issues with one of the PCs than I ever did with the Macs though -- including a hard drive failure. Just a bad run of luck though more than anything.
 
2012-12-04 03:00:51 PM  
I've worked on a couple of non-mac all in ones. It was no problem at all to replace hard disks, upgrade memory, etc. Even the PS3 was no big deal, just a lot of screws.

The macbooks I can understand gluing and soldering to save that tiny bit of extra space and keep it looking perfect. For an AIO, it's obvious they're just farking you over.
 
2012-12-04 03:02:01 PM  

T.rex: I think the matter of contention is that Apple will charge you an arm and a leg to get a unit with a huge hard drive and tons of RAM, when, really, the user could've made those same upgrades to a lower (but otherwise identical) unit for pennies on the dollar. 

Its a scam.... They are forcing the consumer to buy the more expensive unit.


They're not forcing them to do anything.

Macs are, by and large, computers for people too stupid to know anything about what goes on inside them in the first place. They think the extra price just means it is a luxury model.

People that actually know about computers shouldn't care about this since they would never buy a Mac to begin with.
 
2012-12-04 03:03:46 PM  

stonelotus: FinFangFark: t3knomanser: downstairs: Because hard drives and memory never fail?

The issue is: what's the MTBF. For memory, it's already pretty high. And with SSDs, you're getting into that neighborhood.

The only time I've ever had a RAM stick fail was when I gave it a good static shocking. It's been a long time since I've had a HDD failure of any stripe. Just going on raw probabilities: the chances of these parts failing when the product is outside of warranty and isn't due for replacement in some fashion is pretty slim.

Some of us buy a tower and keep it for decades, gradually upgrading parts like Theseus's ship. Most of us change over computers entirely every 2-5 years. I keep myself on a 3-ish year upgrade cycle. The MTBF for most parts is much larger than that.

So you've never experienced a HDD failure in all those years?

I've owned computers since 1987 (always had a PC but I've owned a few Apples over that time as well). I have had exactly one hard drive ever fail on me.


Your skin must emit magic rays. I've had HDDs fail after 3 years (in an external enclosure) and 8 years (I blame Windows ME), and I just had to replace the system board on my work laptop (a Dell XPS, designed to be their "Fark you, Apple" laptop) after just 6 months (!!!).

Of course, my home PC backs up to the ancient 160GB (5400RPM) drive I pulled out of my old PC 2 years ago. That disk is apparently unkillable.

// quick question I couldn't answer yesterday, speaking of storage-
// can I RAID two or more partitions, either on the same drive or across several? Would they all have to be on the same kind of disk (as RAID does), or just partitions of the same size?
 
2012-12-04 03:05:45 PM  
www.vuhelp.net

?
 
2012-12-04 03:07:00 PM  

FinFangFark: So you've never experienced a HDD failure in all those years?


Nope. Last HDD failure on a machine I owned was... um... 1999? I might have had one circa 2001.

namatad: THE FUNNIEST part about that whole statistics thing: some parts fail before the mean and some parts fail after the mean. For every person who has never had a problem, there is a person who has had a problem.


I do understand how statistics works. It's called an "acceptable rate of failure". And let's be honest, MTBF is usually not a normal distribution. First, there are usually two peaks: the parts that fail very early, and the parts that fail near the MTBF. Parts that fail early are covered by some kind of warranty. Between that point and the MTBF, you have a low rate of failure, increasing up the curve as you hit the MTBF. If the MTBF is large enough relative to the expected lifetime, the number of failures in production will be very low.

T.rex: Its a scam.... They are forcing the consumer to buy the more expensive unit.


It's not quite a scam. Apple certainly doesn't mind the fact that they get you to upgrade through them, but y'know what? I'm willing to bet that even before they went this route, most people doing upgrades did it through Apple. Your average user isn't going to install a RAM chip themselves. They're not going to swap a HDD.

So, yeah- Apple definitely appreciates the extra profit on the high-margin parts they upgrade with, but this really is driven by their design constraints, not their profit margins. Apple solders the RAM to the mainboard in their new line of MacBooks because it's cheaper and slimmer than a socket. And the market has responded: people prefer buying slimmer laptops to upgradeable laptops.

Whether this will translate to the desktop is an open question, but I think the sorts of people that would contemplate a Mac desktop are also the sorts of people who would appreciate the form factor.

Myself, if I were getting a desktop, I'd go for the big honkin' full tower, because the only reason to prefer a desktop is ports and upgradeability. Otherwise, I can't see a reason why I'd want a desktop when I could have a laptop instead.
 
2012-12-04 03:09:27 PM  
I bought a mac mini 3 years ago, so I can learn the mac OS. It slowly turned into my primary machine. I liked the BSD underpinnings.
I upgraded the ram using spatulas to open the case. I went back to winworld since I purchased a laptop. I still have the mac mini, and it is a good solid machine.
Mac or windows is like Chevy or Ford arguments. Both machines will do what you want, it is all in the styling.
 
2012-12-04 03:14:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel:
// quick question I couldn't answer yesterday, speaking of storage-
// can I RAID two or more partitions, either on the same drive or across several? Would they all have to be on the same kind of disk (as RAID does), or just partitions of the same size?


[quizzical_dog.jpg]

Not sure if serious.
 
2012-12-04 03:15:51 PM  

namatad: and you have to admit, using glue to seal the case is a bit lame


how else will keep the haxxors from stoelen your Megahurtz's?
 
2012-12-04 03:19:45 PM  
People here suffer from the "not the target audience" disease. The 21" iMac isn't for people who are looking to be able to do their own repairs or upgrade. It's an all in one computer for people who don't want to deal with all that. If someone wants an iMac but wants to repair/upgrade themselves, the 27" iMac is available.
 
2012-12-04 03:20:49 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: You buy a Mac so you don't have to worry about the insides.

I think most computer problems stem from stupidity of do it yourself people.



Hey, just because youre paralyzed by fear everytime you open the side of a computer dosent mean other people dont know what they are doing,


/built all my own computers.
//still have an old intell P2 that runs, it beat the odds.
 
2012-12-04 03:21:25 PM  

Dr Dreidel: // quick question I couldn't answer yesterday, speaking of storage-
// can I RAID two or more partitions, either on the same drive or across several? Would they all have to be on the same kind of disk (as RAID does), or just partitions of the same size?


you can use different sizes
raid 5 will only use part of the larger drive
 
2012-12-04 03:24:42 PM  

t3knomanser: Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.

I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.


THIS.

Also, most laptops are also difficult to upgrade, Apple or not. Nobody who would upgrade later is likely to buy a machine like this.
 
2012-12-04 03:25:41 PM  

t3knomanser: I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.


The article clearly states there are iMac fans who have already been doing drive upgrades with this very line of products for years, so they might be surprised and they might care about this new design parameter.

Also, I'm pretty sure the dullards who are buying these just because they're absurdly simple aren't reading Ars teardown articles, so it really only is aimed at those tinkerers in the first place who would want to know this.

So... yea... not really sure what your point is.
 
2012-12-04 03:27:17 PM  

StrangeQ: People that actually know about computers shouldn't care about this since they would never buy a Mac to begin with.


In my experience, "knowing about computers" comprises a vast range of knowledge. Many people who I think know more than I do are Mac users. They're nice to use, and powerful once you get into the UNIX part. They also look nice, which if you're in front of it for 12 hours a day, several of which are spent in public, you appreciate.
 
2012-12-04 03:31:06 PM  

Surool: t3knomanser: Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.

I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.

THIS.

Also, most laptops are also difficult to upgrade, Apple or not. Nobody who would upgrade later is likely to buy a machine like this.


The thing is that the combination of RAM and SSD upgrades can allow basic users to squeeze a few more years of use out of their machines rather than buy new. So it's nice to be able to do because it lets you keep current on patches and OS versions and not have your machine slow to a crawl due to planned obsolescence.

Sure, not everyone is going to do this, but some of us like the option of dropping another 2-300 on an upgrade rather than $1500 on a new machine.
 
2012-12-04 03:34:27 PM  

t3knomanser: Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.

I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.


Well, little things like RAM and hard drives are nice to be able to upgrade. RAM would be a bigger thing for me. I can always add an external HD.
Well, supposed your hard drive fails after two years. Would you spend over a thousand dollars on a new rig or just spend a couple hundred on a replacement drive and reload it? There is no hand-me-down with this machine it seems. Unfortunate. But oh well, we shall see.
 
2012-12-04 03:35:45 PM  

the_vicious_fez: Surool: t3knomanser: Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.

I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.

THIS.

Also, most laptops are also difficult to upgrade, Apple or not. Nobody who would upgrade later is likely to buy a machine like this.

The thing is that the combination of RAM and SSD upgrades can allow basic users to squeeze a few more years of use out of their machines rather than buy new. So it's nice to be able to do because it lets you keep current on patches and OS versions and not have your machine slow to a crawl due to planned obsolescence.

Sure, not everyone is going to do this, but some of us like the option of dropping another 2-300 on an upgrade rather than $1500 on a new machine.


The people who would do that wouldn't but a machine like this anyway. They'd build their own Windows box and upgrade parts as needed.
 
2012-12-04 03:38:00 PM  

myspamhere: I bought a mac mini 3 years ago, so I can learn the mac OS. It slowly turned into my primary machine. I liked the BSD underpinnings.
I upgraded the ram using spatulas to open the case. I went back to winworld since I purchased a laptop. I still have the mac mini, and it is a good solid machine.
Mac or windows is like Chevy or Ford arguments. Both machines will do what you want, it is all in the styling.


I am totally going to use the Ford/Chevy argument! Good one.
 
2012-12-04 03:38:07 PM  

StrangeQ: People that actually know about computers shouldn't care about this since they would never buy a Mac to begin with.


When Linux approaches the user experience of a mac, we'll talk. When it's as nice to use, when it's as seamless, when I can use it without wanting to put a boot through my motherboard once a day, then you can shiat-talk those of us who know our way around computers and still use Macs.

I use Ubuntu for 8 hours per day. Trust me, we're not there yet.

No matter what combination of hardware and OS you end up with, there are times when your machine will make you furious. With Macs, I find those times to be when I look at my credit card statement after buying a new machine, when I discover that they no longer include OS install media out of the box, and that's about it. With everything else, it's constant.
 
2012-12-04 03:40:04 PM  

rooftop235: Well, supposed your hard drive fails after two years. Would you spend over a thousand dollars on a new rig or just spend a couple hundred on a replacement drive and reload it?


Personally? While this particular model makes it a pain to repair, it's not "unrepairable". I'd just friggin' fix it.

See, this stuff? This stuff doesn't bother me. When you see a case with that kind of form factor, you're an idiot if you think it's going to be upgradeable. Now, in my old MBP, they used custom screws to hold the battery in place. That was shiat and fail and death. That pissed me off completely.
 
2012-12-04 03:40:52 PM  

Surool: the_vicious_fez: Surool: t3knomanser: Does anyone buy an all-in-one computer because they expect it to be upgradeable? I will never, ever understand why anyone gives a shiat about the fact that products obviously designed around a certain form-factor aren't user-serviceable.

I really don't understand why anybody cares about this, or why anybody pretends to be surprised.

THIS.

Also, most laptops are also difficult to upgrade, Apple or not. Nobody who would upgrade later is likely to buy a machine like this.

The thing is that the combination of RAM and SSD upgrades can allow basic users to squeeze a few more years of use out of their machines rather than buy new. So it's nice to be able to do because it lets you keep current on patches and OS versions and not have your machine slow to a crawl due to planned obsolescence.

Sure, not everyone is going to do this, but some of us like the option of dropping another 2-300 on an upgrade rather than $1500 on a new machine.

The people who would do that wouldn't but a machine like this anyway. They'd build their own Windows box and upgrade parts as needed.


You don't live in my family. My dad just ripped his MBP apart for a RAM upgrade (he's a retired journalist, before you come in with the "must be an engineer" comments) and now he's contemplating swapping in an SSD. All I'm doing is helping him spec. I take your point for the general population, and he's certainly not buying an iMac, but my point is there is a very legitimate use case for upgradeability even in Macs, and there are plenty of Mac users to take advantage of it even if it's not anything like a majority of them.
 
2012-12-04 03:41:12 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dr Dreidel:
// quick question I couldn't answer yesterday, speaking of storage-
// can I RAID two or more partitions, either on the same drive or across several? Would they all have to be on the same kind of disk (as RAID does), or just partitions of the same size?

[quizzical_dog.jpg]

Not sure if serious.


I can see why RAIDing partitions of the same drive is weird, but I can imagine a scenario where you might want to (mitigate against bad sectors, so you stripe 3 partitions of the same physical drive - if space isn't an issue, and you don't want to buy a new drive, you're fine with turning a 1TB drive into a "3x 300GB disk" array).

Anyway, the whole thing was me attempting to outsmart myself and have a good way to store my music collection without worrying that the master fails and the backups never ran (which has already happened to me. ALWAYS VERIFY THAT YOUR BACKUPS RUN and that they're usable, kids).
 
2012-12-04 03:46:07 PM  

Dr Dreidel: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dr Dreidel:
// quick question I couldn't answer yesterday, speaking of storage-
// can I RAID two or more partitions, either on the same drive or across several? Would they all have to be on the same kind of disk (as RAID does), or just partitions of the same size?

[quizzical_dog.jpg]

Not sure if serious.

I can see why RAIDing partitions of the same drive is weird, but I can imagine a scenario where you might want to (mitigate against bad sectors, so you stripe 3 partitions of the same physical drive - if space isn't an issue, and you don't want to buy a new drive, you're fine with turning a 1TB drive into a "3x 300GB disk" array).

Anyway, the whole thing was me attempting to outsmart myself and have a good way to store my music collection without worrying that the master fails and the backups never ran (which has already happened to me. ALWAYS VERIFY THAT YOUR BACKUPS RUN and that they're usable, kids).


1. Actually look up the definition of the acronym RAID
2. Primary partitions on the same drive would defeat the purpose (RAID 0 - no increase in speed as it is limited to the same r/w heads, i/o channel, etc... RAID 1-# - no increase in drive safety due to redundancy as it is all on the same drive. JBOD - no increase in drive size as it is the same drive.)
3. For your purpose, go for RAID 1 or RAID 5 depending on your appetite for new drive purchases goes.
 
2012-12-04 03:46:21 PM  

the_vicious_fez: You don't live in my family. My dad just ripped his MBP apart for a RAM upgrade (he's a retired journalist, before you come in with the "must be an engineer" comments) and now he's contemplating swapping in an SSD. All I'm doing is helping him spec. I take your point for the general population, and he's certainly not buying an iMac, but my point is there is a very legitimate use case for upgradeability even in Macs, and there are plenty of Mac users to take advantage of it even if it's not anything like a majority of them.


I bought an upgradable Mac that suits my purpose. If I wanted the all-in-one or portable solution, I know I would need to sacrifice upgradability. That's life.
 
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