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(C|Net)   Police want phone providers to save all texts..for two years..by the way, T- mobile does not save them at all. Verizon? Every damn one you've ever made   (news.cnet.com) divider line 45
    More: PSA, murder cases, U.S. Cellular, Declan McCullagh, Electronic Communications Privacy Act, CTIA, texting, outliers, Forrester Research  
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8753 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2012 at 11:27 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-04 11:35:19 AM  
6 votes:
HEY CONGRESS:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Feel free to ignore that, just like you have the rest of the Constitution.


/Carry on
2012-12-04 09:49:18 AM  
3 votes:
Subby: " Verizon? Every damn one you've ever made"
FTFA: "Verizon keeps 'text message content on their servers for 3-5 days.'"

??
2012-12-04 06:23:09 AM  
3 votes:
....and guess which company is in bed with the FBI, CIA, NSA? Gee, do you suppose there are benefits to that compliance?
2012-12-04 12:14:03 PM  
2 votes:

groppet: Onkel Buck: Good thing Barry repealed the Patriot Act...oh wait

Right after he closed Gitmo


He bought that unused prison in Illinois... I suspect that, despite republican opposition, the detention facility at Guantanamo will be closed within a year or two.
2012-12-04 11:56:19 AM  
2 votes:

Bender The Offender: The NSA now knows I asked my friend if he "Has a quarter". Stupid police state world. Right after I lose 5 pounds from my butt. I'm going to eat more cheetohs.


It's funny how, the creep, just keeps happening. Never farking stops.
2012-12-04 11:37:47 AM  
2 votes:

Pista: Do people still send texts?


You must not know any teenagers.
2012-12-04 11:36:57 AM  
2 votes:
You know, it's just like the '70s and '80s when the US Postal Service would keep copies of all letters and stored them so that law enforcement could use them later. Same thing, no big deal.

In other news, people should use encrypted SMS clients (TextSecure). Would I rather trust every cop and every carrier, or trust Moxie? I've made my choice.
2012-12-04 11:33:34 AM  
2 votes:
Why are we still using SMS anyway? Why haven't US carriers switched to email like in Japan yet?

Oh right, money.
2012-12-04 08:31:16 AM  
2 votes:

Pista: Do people still send texts?


It's better than trying to communicate via photos of yourself in various poses of nude interpretive dance. Trust me.
2012-12-05 02:40:08 PM  
1 votes:
Sprint and Boost Mobile don't store text content. Nextel (iDEN instead of CDMA network) might have the last seven days, maybe, if Jupiter and Mars aligned with the cell tower at precisely the time the text was sent. Virgin Mobile saves every text message, verbatim. Text detail (sending and receiving numbers, time and date) is available for all of these for the most recent 18 months, and longer for postpaid accounts, if the bills show call detail records.

For the record: Sprint doesn't keep copies of emails, pictures or videos sent or received.

To get any stored content, law enforcement must provide either a search warrant (for which they have convinced a judge there is probable cause) or a court order with attached probable cause statement.

Sprint hires people specifically to go over every legal demand they receive, and verify its validity before sending out anything - this includes exigent circumstances requests. This protects law enforcement as well as Sprint customers: if officers or agents use evidence they should never have been given, any evidence they gather using that bad evidence becomes 'fruit of the poisonous tree', and might get their entire case thrown out of court. (Power-tripping attorneys, cops and agents usually quit trying to bully their way past the law really, really fast, when they're reminded of that... ;-) )

To be fair to Verizon, I keep hearing that getting records from them is like pulling the teeth from a crocodile, and their response time is like molasses in January. (These would be the polite examples...) The people saying this might be blowing sunshine up my skirt, but I tend to believe they're at most embellishing the truth, a bit. But seriously, Verizon, if my bill's so much higher with you because you're paying storage on my text content, just delete it.
2012-12-05 05:24:06 AM  
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: Sultan Of Herf: Egoy3k: Optimus Primate: Does it count when I use generic terms like "herb salad" when texting certain vendors?

We use the time honored method of discussing classic country and western singers such as Al Green and Hank Snow.

"Hey man Al's coming over tonight do you want to speak with him?"
"Yeah sure maybe for 5 or 10 minutes depending on the mood he is in."

Translation:

"I'm holding you want any?"
"Yes 5 or 10 depending on the price."

Unless your moving double digit pounds or kilos the govt doest really care. Hell these days many regular LE agencies arent going to waste thier time coming after you for a nickel or dime.

If they find it on you during a search, that may be a different story.

This.

Still, I see no reason why the government should be forcing a private business to hold your text info.

At the same time, I see now reason why anyone biatches about the government viewing your text info when the business both chooses to hold on to it and wants to give it away to the government.

A right to be secure in your papers does not include sending those papers all over the world via a private company who at no point agreed to keep that information private. You might as well demand that notes passed in class are private and that the teacher as a government agent is violating the 4th amendment by looking at it.

And of course has been said: if you are planning on doing something illegal or possibly illegal, you really ought to make it a point to be more careful. Anyone running around texting about their crimes gets very little sympathy from me.


Really, so now adult taxpayers have the government acting in parentis locus? What other rights and privileges do you want to sacrifice to return to those glory days of authoritarian rule with no recourse of your childhood? I'm a tax paying adult, I have an education and a family to care for. I don't require or want any organization acting in parentis locus for me.
2012-12-04 04:05:09 PM  
1 votes:

base935: I don't have anything to hide, so I'm ok with this.


I do. My private communications are just that, private. There's nothing in my texts that is illegal, or embarrassing, or compromising, but there is also nothing there that is anyone else's goddamn business.
2012-12-04 02:29:32 PM  
1 votes:
mcreadyblue:

14 years imprisonment with out a trial.

Even Stalin had trials.


For the big fish. For ordinary people like us (presumably) they usually used troikas, three-person tribunals of some kind or combination of police, "justice" and "security" officials. Sometimes they'd "try" a whole roomful of prisoners at once for about three minutes, time enough to note down the charges, the number of "offenders," the demographic information of as many as they bothered to note, and what was done with them. Occasionally an odd person was actually acquitted, usually either because some official found him useful and/or got bribed but in rare instances because they decided he wasn't guilty, and of course he'd spend the next few months or years showing gratitude somehow.

"Smolensk, 3 Aug 36. 16 Trotskyites executed, 12 sent to labor camps, 2 of the latter now-ex-party members (A. Smithovich and B. Joneski). One prisoner acquitted, an 80 year old woman who had to be carried in on a plank: couldn't remember her own name, harmless. 3 cases referred to higher levels."

Do the prisoners at Gitmo get even that much?

Oh by the way: "In 2010, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, a former aide to Secretary of State Colin Powell, stated in an affidavit that top U.S. officials, including George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld, had known that the majority of the detainees initially sent to Guantánamo were innocent, but that the detainees had been kept there for reasons of political expedience.[45][46] Wilkerson's statement was submitted in connection with a lawsuit filed in federal district court by former detainee Adel Hassan Hamad against the United States government and several individual officials." From (the Wikipedia article on Gitmo's section on detainees.)
2012-12-04 02:23:35 PM  
1 votes:

Pants full of macaroni!!: doczoidberg: Would it cool to have a job that would allow you to access all of those texts?

Oh, the nude pics you'd see!

Be careful what you wish for.


If they involve the T-Mobile chick, I'm in.
2012-12-04 01:33:28 PM  
1 votes:
Texting is the biggest scam going. $10+ for texting? I use a LOT more bandwidth streaming HD pron on my phone.

I use a free text app, so my texts never hit my carriers server.

/sheesh
2012-12-04 12:46:41 PM  
1 votes:
Dear Congress: 1984 was not a "HowTo" guide.
2012-12-04 12:39:06 PM  
1 votes:
This is what I use for a cell phone:
3.bp.blogspot.com
And this for text messages:
cdn.zmescience.com

So suck it coppers!
2012-12-04 12:34:02 PM  
1 votes:
Pssh people just toss phones or use encrypted email. This just catches morans. Which cops don't have a problem doing anyway.
2012-12-04 12:33:22 PM  
1 votes:

Amos Quito: HEY CONGRESS:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Feel free to ignore that, just like you have the rest of the Constitution.


Do you think any Congressperson elected since "9/11" has ever read any part of the Constitution, let alone decided to preserve it?
2012-12-04 12:31:23 PM  
1 votes:

Amos Quito: HEY CONGRESS: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Feel free to ignore that, just like you have the rest of the Constitution.


Wouldn't it be awesome if the cops, courts and Congress had some goddam respect for the Constitution, rather than treating it with contempt as if it's some giant motherfarking obstacle to them doing their jobs?
2012-12-04 12:26:31 PM  
1 votes:
LOL

Not on the side of the police here, but if you send incriminating texts to someone, texts that indicate some kind of criminal behavior, you deserve to be apprehended.

Don't put incriminating shiat in writing. How farking hard is that to understand? Even if the cops don't get access to them, the person you sent them to can save whatever the fark they want.
2012-12-04 12:24:48 PM  
1 votes:

mcreadyblue: firefly212: groppet: Onkel Buck: Good thing Barry repealed the Patriot Act...oh wait

Right after he closed Gitmo

He bought that unused prison in Illinois... I suspect that, despite republican opposition, the detention facility at Guantanamo will be closed within a year or two.

14 years imprisonment with out a trial.

Even Stalin had trials.


I support trying them, but let's not go on pretending that it's the left that would object to moving these people into the regular criminal trial system from the military tribunal face they have right now. The GOP blocked the move to close Guantanamo, then slammed Obama relentlessly for his failure to do so... I'm tired of this being the way every fight goes... where the right just obstructs all rational courses, then complains about the irrationality of whats left.
2012-12-04 12:24:40 PM  
1 votes:

iheartscotch: The joke is on the CIA/ FBI/ police; I communicate exclusively with captioned pictures of owls with funny looks on their faces.


i1.kym-cdn.com
2012-12-04 12:23:08 PM  
1 votes:
Burner phone people.

They are $20 @ Walmart. Pay by cash.
2012-12-04 12:22:28 PM  
1 votes:
As a criminal defense attorney, my take is that this will not affect major criminal enterprises, or even smaller ones like street gangs. They obtain and use prepaid phones, and purchase additional minutes at the local carry-out or gas station.

I represented someone in connection with a murder case, that was ultimately dismissed because law enforcement could only trace texts (setting up the meeting) and phone numbers back to a prepaid phone, which they were never able to locate despite searching my client's person, his car and house. The victim only had nicknames recorded in his phone, so they couldn't even use that information to identify my client. My client was either lucky enough (if he did it) or unlucky (if he didn't) to have a very popular nickname.

The lesson to learn from this is... if you think that someone is going to kill you, make sure you have their full legal name in the contact folder of your phone, so it will register in the call and text logs, and can at least be used as circumstantial evidence. And, if you are going to do something illegal... prepaid is only the way to go.
2012-12-04 12:19:01 PM  
1 votes:

firefly212: groppet: Onkel Buck: Good thing Barry repealed the Patriot Act...oh wait

Right after he closed Gitmo

He bought that unused prison in Illinois... I suspect that, despite republican opposition, the detention facility at Guantanamo will be closed within a year or two.


14 years imprisonment with out a trial.

Even Stalin had trials.
2012-12-04 12:17:21 PM  
1 votes:
I hope Big Brother like pictures of my junk, because I send a lot of those to various phone numbers.
2012-12-04 12:15:25 PM  
1 votes:
A guy I work with is a texting fanatic.. No problem, but he's a terrible speller in the first place, and compounds it by making up new abbreviations. About half the time I end up calling him and asking what the hell that last text was supposed to mean.

Any cops going through his records will give up after trying to figure out what "kthnds cjl9r bdy" means...

(kthnks cul8r buddy)
2012-12-04 12:13:54 PM  
1 votes:
Still not as creepy as this part of a notice "about two new programs at Sprint and your privacy choices" that I received in my email. At least they gave me the choice to opt out of the programs.

"Reporting & Analytics Program
Beginning December 1, 2012, Sprint will combine Mobile Usage Information and Consumer Information to prepare business and marketing reports that we may share with others... ...We may also share location information with other companies in a way that does not personally identify you.

Mobile Usage Information:

Categories of websites visited when using our wireless service (e.g., sports sites, music sites)
High-level location information (e.g., general location of cell tower serving your device)
Applications and features used on our network and information about network traffic (e.g., number of users using particular category of applications, such as navigation applications)


Consumer Information:

Information about use of Sprint products and services (such as data and calling use and features, device type, amount of use)
Demographic information provided to us by other companies (e.g., gender, age range)"


Who needs Big Brother? We have Big Business watching us!
2012-12-04 12:11:59 PM  
1 votes:

padraig: Pista: Do people still send texts?

What world do you live in ?


He's desperately trying to sound hip.
2012-12-04 12:03:44 PM  
1 votes:
brb, murdering important public figure
2012-12-04 12:02:11 PM  
1 votes:
Is this part of the SOPA thing which was voted down but they are still trying to shove down our throats?

Becoming a police state due to technology.

/really no clue.
2012-12-04 11:59:50 AM  
1 votes:

Sultan Of Herf: frepnog: I simply want the ability as the account holder to SEE every farking text sent on the website on a per-phone basis.

I have no idea why I can not.

One of the phone companies I was with in the past (dont recall which) kinda did that...you could see if the text was incoming or outgoing, and who it came from/went to. The one im with now (Sprint) simply tells you how many you have used so far this billing period.


i can still see that with verizon. I WANT THE TXTS.
2012-12-04 11:57:27 AM  
1 votes:
Some days I can't wait for CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN.
2012-12-04 11:55:38 AM  
1 votes:
Good thing Barry repealed the Patriot Act...oh wait
2012-12-04 11:49:56 AM  
1 votes:

frepnog: I simply want the ability as the account holder to SEE every farking text sent on the website on a per-phone basis.

I have no idea why I can not.


One of the phone companies I was with in the past (dont recall which) kinda did that...you could see if the text was incoming or outgoing, and who it came from/went to. The one im with now (Sprint) simply tells you how many you have used so far this billing period.
2012-12-04 11:44:41 AM  
1 votes:

Pants full of macaroni!!: Pista: Do people still send texts?

I am reliably informed that that is the only way people communicate with one another nowadays.


that is pretty accurate. my first cell that featured texting, i never used the feature. seemed so stupid, why not just call? but then over time and phone upgrades it happened - i realized i was texting FAR more than actual calls were made. Now, I rarely call anyone. i just text.
2012-12-04 11:37:19 AM  
1 votes:

snocone: frepnog: I simply want the ability as the account holder to SEE every farking text sent on the website on a per-phone basis.

I have no idea why I can not.

One of the basic tennants of spookdom is never let the suckers know how much you know.
If you knew how detailed the report was, you would feel targeted.


that has nothing to do with anything. all i want is to be able to log into verizon's site and pull the txt logs on a per-phone basis. I pay the bill, I want to see what the hell is going on.
2012-12-04 11:35:01 AM  
1 votes:

frepnog: I simply want the ability as the account holder to SEE every farking text sent on the website on a per-phone basis.

I have no idea why I can not.


One of the basic tennants of spookdom is never let the suckers know how much you know.
If you knew how detailed the report was, you would feel targeted.
2012-12-04 11:32:14 AM  
1 votes:
I ♥ T-Mobile.
2012-12-04 11:30:52 AM  
1 votes:
I simply want the ability as the account holder to SEE every farking text sent on the website on a per-phone basis.

I have no idea why I can not.
2012-12-04 11:30:37 AM  
1 votes:
b ovr in 10min. whtvr.
eabod bgbrthr
2012-12-04 10:00:07 AM  
1 votes:

Rincewind53: Subby: " Verizon? Every damn one you've ever made"
FTFA: "Verizon keeps 'text message content on their servers for 3-5 days.'"

??


That only applies to the servers. It doesn't speak to record retention in general.
2012-12-04 09:14:16 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: ....and guess which company is in bed with the FBI, CIA, NSA? Gee, do you suppose there are benefits to that compliance?


I see my services are not required here.
2012-12-04 07:17:53 AM  
1 votes:
Most of the ADSL internet equipment is now sitting in rooms in phone exchanges that were allocated for recording gear in the middle of the cold war.
 
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