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(Marketwatch)   Honda reports record November profits by adopting radical business plan of building cars that don't suck   (marketwatch.com) divider line 59
    More: Spiffy, Honda, U.S., Acura, company  
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942 clicks; posted to Business » on 04 Dec 2012 at 9:34 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-04 09:39:06 AM  
I went from a passat to an accord. I am a happy person.
 
2012-12-04 09:42:55 AM  

Chabash: I went from a passat to an accord. I am a happy person.


you went from friend to enemy, in my book.
 
2012-12-04 09:44:22 AM  

Chabash: I went from a passat to an accord. I am a happy person.


At least you're still buying from an Axis power. That's the important part.
 
2012-12-04 09:46:33 AM  
Ah yes... quality, even better when you buy the premium rebadged Acura versions.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-04 09:55:18 AM  

MattMillerTime: Chabash: I went from a passat to an accord. I am a happy person.

you went from friend to enemy, in my book.


Normally, I would agree with you. But the new Passat is so atrocious, I wouldn't reccomend anyone buy one. VW Needs to learn the lesson that they got so big by doing their own thing, not copying others poorly.

/Went from a Passat to an Audi S4.
//THAT'S happy
 
2012-12-04 10:01:13 AM  

Bobo_Spiewack: MattMillerTime: Chabash: I went from a passat to an accord. I am a happy person.

you went from friend to enemy, in my book.

Normally, I would agree with you. But the new Passat is so atrocious, I wouldn't reccomend anyone buy one. VW Needs to learn the lesson that they got so big by doing their own thing, not copying others poorly.

/Went from a Passat to an Audi S4.
//THAT'S happy


So from a VW to a VW?

I thought the Passat and A4 shared the same, well, nearly everything?

/own a Jetta Wolfsburg
 
2012-12-04 10:01:55 AM  

MattMillerTime: Chabash: I went from a passat to an accord. I am a happy person.

you went from friend to enemy, in my book.


It got too expensive to maintain. :/
 
2012-12-04 10:02:56 AM  
Honda makes more than just cars, but just about everything they make is tops.
 
2012-12-04 10:08:12 AM  

Bobo_Spiewack: MattMillerTime: Chabash: I went from a passat to an accord. I am a happy person.

you went from friend to enemy, in my book.

Normally, I would agree with you. But the new Passat is so atrocious, I wouldn't reccomend anyone buy one. VW Needs to learn the lesson that they got so big by doing their own thing, not copying others poorly.

/Went from a Passat to an Audi S4.
//THAT'S happy


i was speaking more in regard to the fact that it's a foreign car. half of what is wrong with this country is to be found right there.

i am no union fan, but...you have to keep the money at home! it upsets me that everyone thinks that you are a redneck or an idiot to be buying an american car. depressing.

//America....Fark YEA!
 
2012-12-04 10:11:36 AM  

MattMillerTime: i am no union fan, but...you have to keep the money at home! it upsets me that everyone thinks that you are a redneck or an idiot to be buying an american car. depressing.


My Honda Pilot was made in Alabama, I think. And if you want to invest in Honda, you can buy ADRs.

When Ford makes cars as well as Honda or Toyota (and they are getting close) I will buy one.

I will not buy European garbage, however.
 
2012-12-04 10:27:43 AM  

MattMillerTime: i was speaking more in regard to the fact that it's a foreign car. half of what is wrong with this country is to be found right there.

i am no union fan, but...you have to keep the money at home! it upsets me that everyone thinks that you are a redneck or an idiot to be buying an american car. depressing.

//America....Fark YEA!


What in the world is a modern American car? Do you mean manufactured parts? Just assembly? Do you mean only headquartered or are we talking actual plants? Does every car they manufacture have to be in the US to be considered an American car company? Do all their parts have to be manufactured by the same company? Do the parts have to be designed by an American company?
 
2012-12-04 10:31:32 AM  

pkellmey: What in the world is a modern American car?


When my dad chastises me for not buying "'Murrican" he means GM, Ford, or Chrysler. Regardless of engines from Czech Republic, transmissions from Brazil, and final assembly in Mexico, they're still "American" cars to him.

And I'm the son he didn't raise right since I drive a Nazimobile.
 
2012-12-04 10:35:02 AM  

tricycleracer: pkellmey: What in the world is a modern American car?

When my dad chastises me for not buying "'Murrican" he means GM, Ford, or Chrysler. Regardless of engines from Czech Republic, transmissions from Brazil, and final assembly in Mexico, they're still "American" cars to him.

And I'm the son he didn't raise right since I drive a Nazimobile.


I look at articles like this and cringe when people call something like a Ford Escape American made but not a Camry.
 
2012-12-04 10:35:33 AM  
Three of my last four cars have been Hondas.

1990 Civic (bought used in 1992)
2007 Civic
2013 Fit

I loved them all.
 
2012-12-04 10:45:22 AM  
Hondas have never sucked, though the strong yen has resulted in them cutting corners in creative and mostly deleterious ways, sadly.

It's hard to be utilitarian value when your currency causes your product to be priced at the low-end of the 'luxury' range.

Though it helps that they build a lot of cars in America.
 
2012-12-04 10:56:40 AM  
I've owned Pontiac, Chrysler, Subaru, Geo and Honda cars. Honda was the most reliable and economical by far. I only own my current Honda because I could not afford the Ford equivalent. I'm still very happy with my Honda, but I might go Ford if the price is right in the future. In my price range, Honda is the only one that still makes sense from trade-in potential alone.
 
2012-12-04 11:14:43 AM  

pkellmey: tricycleracer: pkellmey: What in the world is a modern American car?

When my dad chastises me for not buying "'Murrican" he means GM, Ford, or Chrysler. Regardless of engines from Czech Republic, transmissions from Brazil, and final assembly in Mexico, they're still "American" cars to him.

And I'm the son he didn't raise right since I drive a Nazimobile.

I look at articles like this and cringe when people call something like a Ford Escape American made but not a Camry.


My uncle says "all the money goes back to Japan". Apparently, the workers don't get paid and the shareholder's are all Japanese.
 
2012-12-04 11:16:36 AM  

tricycleracer: At least you're still buying from an Axis power.


Hey Rip Van Winkle, you'd be surprised to learn that 67 years have passed and the world's changed a little bit.
 
2012-12-04 11:17:33 AM  

Rapmaster2000: pkellmey: tricycleracer: pkellmey: What in the world is a modern American car?

When my dad chastises me for not buying "'Murrican" he means GM, Ford, or Chrysler. Regardless of engines from Czech Republic, transmissions from Brazil, and final assembly in Mexico, they're still "American" cars to him.

And I'm the son he didn't raise right since I drive a Nazimobile.

I look at articles like this and cringe when people call something like a Ford Escape American made but not a Camry.

My uncle says "all the money goes back to Japan". Apparently, the workers don't get paid and the shareholder's are all Japanese.


Apparently, my English is all Japanese.
 
2012-12-04 11:21:35 AM  

THX 1138: tricycleracer: At least you're still buying from an Axis power.

Hey Rip Van Winkle, you'd be surprised to learn that 67 years have passed and the world's changed a little bit.


I drive a Bavarian Manure Wagon so I'm right there with him.
 
2012-12-04 11:32:06 AM  
Oh, I forgot my early Saturn. Great coupe that had the highest percent of car parts made in the U.S. by a U.S. car corporation at the time. It is often rumored that GM killed that brand out of jealousy.
 
2012-12-04 12:03:17 PM  
Been a while since I've owned a Honda ('91 Civic Si), but when did they last build cars that sucked? Isn't the Accord a perennial favorite?
 
2012-12-04 12:11:10 PM  

pkellmey: What in the world is a modern American car? Do you mean manufactured parts? Just assembly? Do you mean only headquartered or are we talking actual plants? Does every car they manufacture have to be in the US to be considered an American car company? Do all their parts have to be manufactured by the same company? Do the parts have to be designed by an American company?


Look at the tag under the hood or behind the door, it's not that hard. Honest.
I'll give ya a lil hint though, foreign nameplate, majority of the profit goes foreign.
 
2012-12-04 12:11:52 PM  
But. . .but Hyundai.

/My Elantra. I loves her.
 
2012-12-04 12:15:41 PM  

Kurmudgeon: I'll give ya a lil hint though, foreign nameplate, majority of the profit goes foreign.


Since Fiat owns 61.8% of Chrysler, would you consider Chrysler a foreign car company?
 
2012-12-04 12:21:20 PM  
I've had 2 used Honda Pilots (both with 100,000 miles or more on them when I bought 'em). They are awesome vehicles. Never had a problem with either of them. Had to buy the second one, when someone rear ended me this summer and wrecked my first one. Ask my husband, I was depressed about losing my car. I loved it so much.

Used Honda Pilots are incredibly hard to find...people in my neck of the woods (a place with snow and mountains) love them and usually don't part with them until they are used up quite a bit.
 
2012-12-04 12:23:33 PM  

Kurmudgeon: pkellmey: What in the world is a modern American car? Do you mean manufactured parts? Just assembly? Do you mean only headquartered or are we talking actual plants? Does every car they manufacture have to be in the US to be considered an American car company? Do all their parts have to be manufactured by the same company? Do the parts have to be designed by an American company?

Look at the tag under the hood or behind the door, it's not that hard. Honest.
I'll give ya a lil hint though, foreign nameplate, majority of the profit goes foreign.


What's considered a foreign nameplate for international corporations? Majority of profit goes foreign? So are we considering counting salaries? Insurance? Parts cost from U.S. vendors? Local taxes? Facilities investments? Or are we just talking straight money after taxes? I think it may be more difficult than it at first appears.
 
2012-12-04 12:36:32 PM  

H31N0US: MattMillerTime: i am no union fan, but...you have to keep the money at home! it upsets me that everyone thinks that you are a redneck or an idiot to be buying an american car. depressing.

My Honda Pilot was made in Alabama, I think. And if you want to invest in Honda, you can buy ADRs.

When Ford makes cars as well as Honda or Toyota (and they are getting close) I will buy one.

I will not buy European garbage, however.


My Canadian built Civic takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
 
2012-12-04 01:05:24 PM  

Kurmudgeon: Look at the tag under the hood or behind the door, it's not that hard. Honest.
I'll give ya a lil hint though, foreign nameplate, majority of the profit goes foreign.


The cars with the most US made parts are generally considered "foreign" cars. The cars are assembled in far off "foreign" places like Alabama, Tennessee and Ohio.

And who owns the "foreign" car companies? The same people who own GM and Ford, shareholders.
 
2012-12-04 01:33:22 PM  

MattMillerTime: Bobo_Spiewack: MattMillerTime: Chabash: I went from a passat to an accord. I am a happy person.

you went from friend to enemy, in my book.

Normally, I would agree with you. But the new Passat is so atrocious, I wouldn't reccomend anyone buy one. VW Needs to learn the lesson that they got so big by doing their own thing, not copying others poorly.

/Went from a Passat to an Audi S4.
//THAT'S happy

i was speaking more in regard to the fact that it's a foreign car. half of what is wrong with this country is to be found right there.

i am no union fan, but...you have to keep the money at home! it upsets me that everyone thinks that you are a redneck or an idiot to be buying an american car. depressing.

//America....Fark YEA!


Matt, the thing about getting a car that does not suck is that it is on the road for a much longer time and it is actually worth fixing and reselling.

You can get a bad car that winds up failing so badly and so expensively that you send it to the scrap heap. Then you buy or lease a new car, which does not get maintenance for the first year or so until it starts having said catastrophic failures. Lather, rinse, repeat.

You can get a car that lasts more than 10 years, which requires service and maintenance at local shops and stations. That good car can also get resold a number of times which supports local used car shops and dealerships. The aftermarket economy is larger than you think.

So, it's not as simple as that. Yeah, I'm all for American factory workers, but here is a case where it makes sense to just pick quality and support the economy in your neighborhood.
 
2012-12-04 02:38:49 PM  

Kurmudgeon: pkellmey: What in the world is a modern American car? Do you mean manufactured parts? Just assembly? Do you mean only headquartered or are we talking actual plants? Does every car they manufacture have to be in the US to be considered an American car company? Do all their parts have to be manufactured by the same company? Do the parts have to be designed by an American company?

Look at the tag under the hood or behind the door, it's not that hard. Honest.
I'll give ya a lil hint though, foreign nameplate, majority of the profit goes foreign.


I was shopping for a new car last month (having to pour $2400 worth of maintenance into the boring-mobile nixed those plans).

But during my research, not one American car came up as delivering the most performance and value. The V6 Mustang came close, but according to Consumer Reports, the cooling, transmission and electrical issues show up after about 4-5 years...right about when the loan would be paid off. I tend to keep cars a long time and run them into the ground, so this is a real turn-off to me.

As many here have said, car manufacturers are more global than national, sourcing parts from various suppliers all over the world. So why can't "American" car companies build better, more reliable cars than "foreign" car companies?
 
2012-12-04 02:45:12 PM  

inglixthemad: I thought the Passat and A4 shared the same, well, nearly everything?


If it's a newer A4 (2008+), they don't share anything. If it's an S4, even less anything.
 
2012-12-04 03:13:15 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: As many here have said, car manufacturers are more global than national, sourcing parts from various suppliers all over the world. So why can't "American" car companies build better, more reliable cars than "foreign" car companies?


He'll claim that Consumer Reports and all the others that give American cars less-than-stellar marks are all in a conspiracy against American automakers and that you're a fool for even looking at them. He's especially convinced that the consistent, decades-long piss-poor performance of Chrysler in nearly every review and ranking of reliability is a giant conspiracy against them.

Then he'll point out that he has a Chrysler minivan that runs as "proof" that Chrysler products in particular are actually rock solid.

Arguing with Kurmudgeon is pointless. He's a massive liar and will just endlessly make shiat up to cheerlead for his chosen favorite automaker in direct contradiction to the enormous tidal wave of facts he's swimming against and the more of those facts you throw in his face the faster he'll descend into just simply calling you names and insisting everybody but him is an idiot.

My favorite experience is the time he accused me of lying about my underwhelming experience during a test drive of a $25,000 Chrysler 300 then proceeded to post a picture of a $42,000 SRT-8 as "proof" that I was full of shiat.
 
2012-12-04 03:47:43 PM  
The delta in quality of vehicles produced today, in the aggregate, is so much better than what was being produced in the even as late as the early 90s it's hard to really make a bad choice(well except Chrysler maybe)

But keep thinking brand A buying parts from supplier a, b, and c, and melding them into a sub 20k compact can build you a magic car that will run 500k miles while brand B buying from the exact same supplier will sell you a car that will lose steering on the way home from the dealership.
 
2012-12-04 04:25:20 PM  

LesserEvil: Ah yes... quality, even better when you buy the premium rebadged Acura versions.

[i.imgur.com image 650x487]


and yet, that car, despite its atrocious condition, is still going strong and won't quit till it's well and truly beyond reasonable salvage.

and then all you have to do is drop a new powertrain into it and maybe replace the suspension.

my dad still owns the honda he bought in 1981. it runs better than my mom's relatively new subaru outback and it's far easier to work on, according to him.

we're on our second honda, a 97 this time. this car has refused to quit, and i'm not babying it. quarter million miles and runs beautifully. about the only non-factory parts under the hood is some of the power steering stuff and the various plugs/filters and a sensor or two. the last honda i owned, even after i warped the block and head out of true, started and ran(granted ran like ass but ran). this car burned valves repeatedly until i got to where i could pop the head off inside of ten minutes.

my father in law is still driving his honda around. one of his daughters convinced him she wanted it and got him to co-sign. six months later she changed her mind and signed it over to him. it's needed a new clutch for six years. the tranny is FINALLY going out. the fuel tank has a HUGE dent in it. the exhaust got severed in the same event that dinged the tank and has since been repaired. the body is trashed, thanks to my father in law being a rather lackadaisical driver. it WILL. NOT. QUIT.

honda has built some winners. cept in the last few years. those were stinky. but good to hear they're getting good again.

//our next car is gonna be a gen 1 odyssey. we have no qualms buying one of those.
 
2012-12-04 04:42:21 PM  

Wellon Dowd: Three of my last four cars have been Hondas.

1990 Civic (bought used in 1992)
2007 Civic
2013 Fit

I loved them all.


Driving the Fit is kind of weird. You can't see the front of your car from the drivers seat, because it slopes so steeply.

Love the fuel efficiency of them however.
 
2012-12-04 05:50:11 PM  

limeyfellow: Wellon Dowd: Three of my last four cars have been Hondas.

1990 Civic (bought used in 1992)
2007 Civic
2013 Fit

I loved them all.

Driving the Fit is kind of weird. You can't see the front of your car from the drivers seat, because it slopes so steeply.

Love the fuel efficiency of them however.


driving the new production accords feels odd to me because of how the dash is setup. makes it less like driving a car and more like piloting a mech.

that is, the windshield feels hella narrow because of the angles and whatnot that are involved.
 
2012-12-04 05:50:16 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Mitch Taylor's Bro: As many here have said, car manufacturers are more global than national, sourcing parts from various suppliers all over the world. So why can't "American" car companies build better, more reliable cars than "foreign" car companies?

He'll claim that Consumer Reports and all the others that give American cars less-than-stellar marks are all in a conspiracy against American automakers and that you're a fool for even looking at them. He's especially convinced that the consistent, decades-long piss-poor performance of Chrysler in nearly every review and ranking of reliability is a giant conspiracy against them.

Then he'll point out that he has a Chrysler minivan that runs as "proof" that Chrysler products in particular are actually rock solid.

Arguing with Kurmudgeon is pointless. He's a massive liar and will just endlessly make shiat up to cheerlead for his chosen favorite automaker in direct contradiction to the enormous tidal wave of facts he's swimming against and the more of those facts you throw in his face the faster he'll descend into just simply calling you names and insisting everybody but him is an idiot.

My favorite experience is the time he accused me of lying about my underwhelming experience during a test drive of a $25,000 Chrysler 300 then proceeded to post a picture of a $42,000 SRT-8 as "proof" that I was full of shiat.


I'm not looking to argue. It's a serious question. You can question the validity of Consumer Reports, but I can't think of another organization that tracks long-term reliability the way they do.

Even CR says that ALL cars have improved in the quality department over the years. I think Ford recently got knocked out of the top ten in some categories even though their quality improved. Are they good cars? Yes. Are they the best, most reliable cars? Apparently not, and it's because other cars have improved more.

IMO, this is the best country on the planet. We SHOULD be making the best products. Period. I'm not looking for an argument because it's a fact that American manufacturers aren't winning in any automotive categories except trucks and big SUVs. I'm looking for an answer to why we don't, that's all.
 
2012-12-04 06:22:46 PM  

tricycleracer: Since Fiat owns 61.8% of Chrysler, would you consider Chrysler a foreign car company?


Yes, and my 2011 200 may be the last car I buy from them.
Howver, a greater portion of the majority of US business is becoming foreign owned, so when the time comes, I'll just have to wait and see.
However, at least my 200 was built in Michigan and the majority of parts were US sourced.
Still won't buy a Toyota or Honda though, know too many horror stories about them to listen to Consumer Reports.
 
2012-12-04 06:26:06 PM  

DVOM: The cars with the most US made parts are generally considered "foreign" cars. The cars are assembled in far off "foreign" places like Alabama, Tennessee and Ohio.


That's why I tell you to research and at least look at the stickers on the car.
If you just give up and buy foreign like a good consumer drone, it defeats the purpose.
/and the US
 
2012-12-04 07:11:54 PM  

k1j2b3: Used Honda Pilots are incredibly hard to find...people in my neck of the woods (a place with snow and mountains) love them and usually don't part with them until they are used up quite a bit.


We have one that will be paid off in June. Hoping to keep it around for many years to come.
 
2012-12-04 07:38:39 PM  

buttery_shame_cave: i could pop the head off inside of ten minutes.


Bullshiat.
 
2012-12-04 07:56:09 PM  

Soup4Bonnie:

We have one that will be paid off in June. Hoping to keep it around for many years to come.


When my first one got totaled, I looked at other cars in the same size/type category. None came close to the Pilot for the size, features, space, driveability and pretty ok mileage for an SUV. Love, love, love my Pilot!!!!!
 
2012-12-04 09:27:34 PM  
Meh, Hondas are overrated. I have a 2004 Civic with about 115,000 miles and it has already blown a head gasket (around 60,000 miles), crank sensor, and a bunch of other stuff. It has something going on with the EVAP system so when it gets close to tag time I have to check the codes and sneak it in for inspection.
 
2012-12-04 10:27:22 PM  
Looking at getting a Honda Pilot for the wife for Christmas, anyone have any experience with a '12 or '13?
 
2012-12-04 10:40:02 PM  

MattMillerTime: Bobo_Spiewack: MattMillerTime: Chabash: I went from a passat to an accord. I am a happy person.

you went from friend to enemy, in my book.

Normally, I would agree with you. But the new Passat is so atrocious, I wouldn't reccomend anyone buy one. VW Needs to learn the lesson that they got so big by doing their own thing, not copying others poorly.

/Went from a Passat to an Audi S4.
//THAT'S happy

i was speaking more in regard to the fact that it's a foreign car. half of what is wrong with this country is to be found right there.

i am no union fan, but...you have to keep the money at home! it upsets me that everyone thinks that you are a redneck or an idiot to be buying an american car. depressing.

//America....Fark YEA!


Buying a European-built vehicle is supporting unions vastly more powerful and useful than any US organization.
 
2012-12-05 02:48:37 AM  

squidloe: Looking at getting a Honda Pilot for the wife for Christmas, anyone have any experience with a '12 or '13?


I bought a 2012 in September this year. It's wonderful. I traded in a 10 year old Subaru, so all the modern conveniences were a great upgrade. It drives great, the 'SUV effect' of being up where you can what's going on is terrific. Holds all my astronomy junk and pulls a small trailer with ease. I'm happy.
 
2012-12-05 06:24:41 AM  

H31N0US: Honda makes more than just cars, but just about everything they make is tops.


that's a very nice post to make, and if i worked at Honda i'd feel good right now, having read that. this seems to be a bit of a car snob thread, and i say 'good for you' for rising above the small talk.

/i want one of those Honda Ruckus scooters so bad i can almost taste it
 
2012-12-05 07:48:47 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: Meh, Hondas are overrated. I have a 2004 Civic with about 115,000 miles and it has already blown a head gasket (around 60,000 miles), crank sensor, and a bunch of other stuff. It has something going on with the EVAP system so when it gets close to tag time I have to check the codes and sneak it in for inspection.


Overrated and overpriced, especially in the used market.

Unless you are talking about the very high end of luxury or sports cars, these days a car is pretty much a car.
 
2012-12-05 09:03:38 AM  
Have an '04 Accord, with ~150,000 miles on it. The radio died about 3 years back, the AC had to be replaced and the starter needed to be replaced. Aside from that, the mofo runs pretty good. We're looking to buy a 7-seater and looked at the Pilot BUT the 18 mpg city is just so friggin weak... wish Honda made something like the Highlander Hybrid, which is likely what we are going to buy. :-(
 
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