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(Telegraph)   Amsterdam to create "Scum Villages" where nuisance neighbors, anti-social tenants will be exiled from the city and housed in caravans or containers with minimal services under constant police supervision. Or as they're known in the US: Trailer parks   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 54
    More: Interesting, Amsterdam, Geert Wilders, good behaviour, antisocial behavior, soft drugs  
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8916 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2012 at 8:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-04 10:20:54 AM
4 votes:
excellent display of reading comprehension fail and insipid commentary. bravo. a few of you have an excellent point. and as long as you wear a hat no one will notice. morans.

you're dealing with a progressive country that actually rehabilitates prisoners instead of warehousing them and turning them into musclebound maniacs hellbent on revenge.

it's obvious that occupants of this colony would be recidivists who have earned the right to be sequestered away from law abiding citizens. common sense would lend to thinking that if children were involved they would be placed into a safer environment for the time being.

with a constant heavy presence of law enforcement these ne'r-do-wells would slowly learn behavior modification. if they weren't raised well enough to know you don't crank the Sex Pistols at 4AM on a school night in the middle of an apartment complex they are sure to learn soon enough.

denied much more than the basics for hygienic survival the denizens of this monitored community would soon enough realize that only with good behavior will they be able to live elsewhere and be free to enjoy cell phones, cable television and have access to their favorite coffee shops, etcetera.

overall it's a very good idea. one more forward thinking step toward improving peoples lives. you can bet we won't be seeing this in America. hope this has cleared it up a little for the knuckle draggers.
2012-12-04 09:06:45 AM
4 votes:
Wouldn't that literally be a ghetto?
2012-12-04 09:50:20 AM
3 votes:

Millennium:

Personally, I'm horrified by this. Being a jerk should not be a crime.


I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. This is behavior that goes beyond "being a jerk" and, to quote TFA, "reflects hardening attitudes to routine anti-social behaviour that falls short of criminality."

If you've ever lived with someone with a personality disorder (especially anti-social PD), you'll have some grasp of what a nightmare that can be, even if physical violence never occurs.

Working 5+ years in Corrections gave me a much more realistic grasp of just what types of people can change, and how much (or in some cases, how little) certain types of people can change.

Those with personality disorders frequently require *years* of therapy, and even if they commit to that and acknowledge that they need to change, there is no guarantee they won't backslide and no guarantee they won't get worse.

I actually kind of agree that those who are polite, kind, help others, and try to get along with our neighbors should not have to be endlessly at the mercy of those whose sole concern is themselves and getting their own wants and needs gratified, regardless of the impact to others. I'm just not sure this is the answer (as appealing as it sounds at first glance).

The problem is they're not all walking around with "A--hole!" or "Potential Serial Killer" tattooed on their foreheads either. Some of them are what we call high-functioning sociopaths -- they blend in nicely because they're good at putting on the appearance of propriety and covering their arses. These people often make it to the top of corporate ranks because they don't care who they step on to get there.

The main reason this proposition is likely doomed to failure is that it would either have to discriminate against people who don't have young children, or risk subjecting the innocent children of rude/manipulative/deceptive parents to a life surrounded by dysfunctional people.

I also have a life-sized picture of Social Worker X and/or Policeman Y getting kickbacks from Persons A, B, and C to allow them to "escape" and move to another city. I also have a life-sized picture of the system turning a blind eye to a wealthy or powerful individual, no matter HOW obnoxious they are to others. Of course, a wealthy/powerful person would likely simply leave the country rather than be relegated to one of these scum villages.
2012-12-04 09:25:36 AM
3 votes:

Millennium: Not de jure, because it's only supposed to be temporary: it's more like a kind of really low-security prison.


That's exactly what the Warsaw Ghetto was.
2012-12-04 09:24:51 AM
3 votes:
Either scum village will be an utter hell hole filled with the Dutch equivalent of Honey Boo Boo and white trash, or it will have the opposite effect where hipsters will purposely move there (like that one episode of King of the Hill where all the Hipsters moved into the hispanic neighborhood) and it will become the place to live, or, and kind of how I think it would happen, it would become a happy place to live as the only people sending others to Scum Village will be people who look down upon others for what ever reason, people who have to have their nose in everyone else's business, HOA authoritarian types, bigots who don't want to live next to "those people", religious nut jobs who condemn those of other religions, so on and so fourth.
2012-12-04 09:16:25 AM
3 votes:
In ten years we'll be listening to music that came out of this place.
2012-12-04 08:53:05 AM
3 votes:
They made this same kind of thing as the basis behind the plot for:

www.traileraddict.com


So unless everybody flies away on their own spaceship into the sunset; I don't think this little social experiment is going to work too well.
2012-12-04 10:56:46 AM
2 votes:

KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.


They can't force you there, and they can't take away your rights. You're misunderstanding what is going on.

This is for people who are renting their apartment. If you can't behave according to the rules for your rented apartment, then you will be kicked out and offered another apartment in this special housing.

That's not force, you're still free to rent another apartment if anyone wants to put up with your shiat (not likely), you're still free to purchase a house you can fark up (yeah, theese people probably don't have any money) and you're obviously free to just be homeless.

Having an apartment provided for you on your terms is not a right. And since everyone is free to not take the offer and sort their living for themselves, there's no force either.
2012-12-04 10:15:42 AM
2 votes:

Joe Blowme: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Joe Blowme: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i50.tinypic.com image 620x387]

May as well completely Godwin this.

So people who fight modernday fascism are hitler?

He's the one (Geert Wilders) that proposed this plan.

FTA:"because the plan echoes a proposal from Geert Wilders"

Not his plan, he is against the modernday nazis, the religion of peace.


I would say any plan to isolate 'nuisance neighbors or anti-social people' is pretty fascist.
I find that a large amount of humans are a nuisance. You learn to ignore them.
I have a few neighbors that pretty much jerks. It is what it is. It's what happens when you decide to live in an area where you are in close proximity to other people.
If someone is a criminal, then they should be arrested, given a trial, and punished accordingly.
If they are just a nuisance, then get over it, or move to out to the country and raise chickens.
2012-12-04 10:00:59 AM
2 votes:

Joe Blowme: So people who fight modernday fascism are hitler? WOW, you will make a good dhimmi.


Nah. Anti-Racist Action, Antifa, and UAF provide valuable services to the community and groups such as the Golden Dawn, National Front, BNP, EDL, neo-nazis, and the Republican party deserve more than a few good kicks.

ima turkey: Occupy Wall Street was the first thing that came to my mind.


Just plain Wall Street was mine.
2012-12-04 09:12:17 AM
2 votes:

bv2112: Wouldn't that literally be a ghetto?


Not de jure, because it's only supposed to be temporary: it's more like a kind of really low-security prison. But we'll see how long "temporary" lasts when put to the tests; I suspect this thing will wind up as a de facto ghetto soon enough.

Personally, I'm horrified by this. Being a jerk should not be a crime.
2012-12-04 08:59:19 AM
2 votes:
media.giantbomb.com
2012-12-04 08:58:46 AM
2 votes:
It might sound nice until you realize that it gives the 80 year old that loves to biatch about everything all the power.
2012-12-04 08:54:56 AM
2 votes:

xanadian: You know who ELSE put their undesirables into confined areas!??

/yes, I know this thread has already been Godwinned


Thing is... that's exactly what the ghettos were when they opened.
2012-12-04 08:54:33 AM
2 votes:
This is a monumentally stupid idea.
2012-12-04 08:53:19 AM
2 votes:
What if that becomes the area with the better restaurants, clubs and artists? I'd imagine it might backfire into a type of NYC where service caters to these types of people very well.

/Yes, I say this and I love NYC.
2012-12-04 08:49:39 AM
2 votes:
You know who ELSE put their undesirables into confined areas!??

/yes, I know this thread has already been Godwinned
2012-12-04 08:40:37 AM
2 votes:
Will it include the special showers and sauna?
2012-12-04 08:37:00 AM
2 votes:
I thought we just called it Baltimore?
2012-12-04 07:02:02 AM
2 votes:
Escape From New York: The Theme Park!
2012-12-04 04:03:09 AM
2 votes:
... and then we start cutting their rations.
2012-12-05 05:58:41 PM
1 votes:

Medic Zero: Joe Blowme: Millennium: KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.

The thing about politics is that it's not really a spectrum: it's a circle. Take the left and right wings out far enough, and they meet up on the opposite end from moderate: "antimoderate", if you will, or perhaps just "narking futs." It can get really confusing, but it's how you get the occasional case of strange bedfellows.

Like the hard left and jihadis today

You spelled "christian fundamentalists" and "muslim extremists" wrong.


Eco-terrorists, Christian Abortion doctor killers, anti-WTO rioters, and Al-Qaeda-led rioters aren't really all that different, but they still aren't the tip of the circle. Just a little further along and you end up with death cults, conspiracy theorists, and the Time Cube guy, that jumble things from the right and left into a deranged blend.
2012-12-05 02:32:07 AM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: Millennium: KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.

The thing about politics is that it's not really a spectrum: it's a circle. Take the left and right wings out far enough, and they meet up on the opposite end from moderate: "antimoderate", if you will, or perhaps just "narking futs." It can get really confusing, but it's how you get the occasional case of strange bedfellows.

Like the hard left and jihadis today


You spelled "christian fundamentalists" and "muslim extremists" wrong.
2012-12-04 08:38:59 PM
1 votes:
What sorts of neighbors are they talking about moving? This article could be covering anything from people who would be in half-way houses here to people who have their music too loud. I don't think either is a particularly good idea, but the article should go into some detail. Would this include neighbors who have kids? I remember a story, I think out of New York City, where there was a psychotic homeless guy who would go around shoving people, but never quite hard enough to get arrested. Him? Hoarders? Animal hoarders? People who walk around naked with the blinds open (but not hotties!)? People with Asperger's?
2012-12-04 01:00:12 PM
1 votes:

fyrewede: Millennium:

Personally, I'm horrified by this. Being a jerk should not be a crime.

I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. This is behavior that goes beyond "being a jerk" and, to quote TFA, "reflects hardening attitudes to routine anti-social behaviour that falls short of criminality."

If you've ever lived with someone with a personality disorder (especially anti-social PD), you'll have some grasp of what a nightmare that can be, even if physical violence never occurs.

Working 5+ years in Corrections gave me a much more realistic grasp of just what types of people can change, and how much (or in some cases, how little) certain types of people can change.

Those with personality disorders frequently require *years* of therapy, and even if they commit to that and acknowledge that they need to change, there is no guarantee they won't backslide and no guarantee they won't get worse.

I actually kind of agree that those who are polite, kind, help others, and try to get along with our neighbors should not have to be endlessly at the mercy of those whose sole concern is themselves and getting their own wants and needs gratified, regardless of the impact to others. I'm just not sure this is the answer (as appealing as it sounds at first glance).

The problem is they're not all walking around with "A--hole!" or "Potential Serial Killer" tattooed on their foreheads either. Some of them are what we call high-functioning sociopaths -- they blend in nicely because they're good at putting on the appearance of propriety and covering their arses. These people often make it to the top of corporate ranks because they don't care who they step on to get there.

The main reason this proposition is likely doomed to failure is that it would either have to discriminate against people who don't have young children, or risk subjecting the innocent children of rude/manipulative/deceptive parents to a life surrounded by dysfunctional people.

I also have a life-sized picture of Soc ...


Wow, a post that addresses both sides of the issue in a well-informed and rational way.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MY FARK?
2012-12-04 11:05:17 AM
1 votes:

uttertosh: there4igraham: It's not illegal to be a jerk.

Do you not think that the world would be way cooler if all the jerks were locked up?


Of course it's appealing. Who wouldn't want to live in a world where the jerks were removed? But it turns out that the answer is not "nobody": the jerks wouldn't. I'm not one of those people who thinks that the Golden Rule scales up to entire societies, but even with that influence removed, it still leaves the question: who is a jerk? How does one tell? Who indeed, and how indeed.

And that's why I can't go along with a system like this. It creates, essentially, a parallel system of ill-defined laws which can -and, therefore, will- be used arbitrarily. That's wrong, and because it's wrong, it should be avoided.
2012-12-04 10:19:50 AM
1 votes:
The Dutch aren't thinking this through. Why spend money on Scum Villages when you could simply charge nuisance neighbors higher taxes. "Your presence in this neighborhood lowers property values by 1000 Euros per year, so pay up, slimeball!" That way, the program pays for itself.
2012-12-04 10:16:39 AM
1 votes:

Carousel Beast: fyrewede: I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. This is behavior that goes beyond "being a jerk" and, to quote TFA, "reflects hardening attitudes to routine anti-social behaviour that falls short of criminality."

So, "you've committed no crime, but we're going to punish you anyway" ?

Despite your wall of text, I don't believe you've thought this through.


They aren't talking about forcing peopel who have bought their house or are paying rent to move.

Thsi is for people living off the govt dime.

I think if the govt is footingt he bill for you to live somewhere and you are a shiatty neighbor there is no reason the govt has to keep paying for you to live there.
2012-12-04 10:09:19 AM
1 votes:

Son of Thunder: KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.

Sadly, politics cannot be easily collapsed into a one-dimensional continuum.


Well, the Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) students I met this fall are blaming the right-wingers. They're wagering that the primary people to be put here are going to be people that immigrated from Eastern Europe. There's a hard right faction (in the student's minds) driving this.
2012-12-04 10:04:06 AM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i50.tinypic.com image 620x387]

May as well completely Godwin this.

So people who fight modernday fascism are hitler?


He's the one (Geert Wilders) that proposed this plan.
2012-12-04 10:02:36 AM
1 votes:
Bravo subby.
2012-12-04 10:00:33 AM
1 votes:
www.timdrussell.com

Living the dream.
2012-12-04 09:57:32 AM
1 votes:
Occupy Wall Street was the first thing that came to my mind.
2012-12-04 09:44:30 AM
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org

Some please tell me that this is just a very tasteless Onion article.
2012-12-04 09:43:33 AM
1 votes:

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: The project also involves setting up a special hotline and system for victims to report their problems to the authorities.

[10think.com image 472x339]

Got someone you don't like living in the neighborhood? A quick phone call can fix that right up for you.


Except instead of targeting specific groups based on their religion, ethnicity or sexuality, they'd be targeting douchebag neighbors. I'm OK with this.

/No, I'm not serious.
2012-12-04 09:38:12 AM
1 votes:

KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.


The thing about politics is that it's not really a spectrum: it's a circle. Take the left and right wings out far enough, and they meet up on the opposite end from moderate: "antimoderate", if you will, or perhaps just "narking futs." It can get really confusing, but it's how you get the occasional case of strange bedfellows.
2012-12-04 09:29:02 AM
1 votes:
Who gets to decide who is undesirable enough? Can you get your neighbor sent there because you don't like him? Or does there have to be proof of asshattary?
2012-12-04 09:24:40 AM
1 votes:
Coming this fall...to TLC...

Here Comes Honey Boo Boo - Amsterdam (now with more drugs and prostitution)

or as they say on the continent...

Hier komt Honing Boo Boo - Amsterdam
2012-12-04 09:21:33 AM
1 votes:

bv2112: Wouldn't that literally be a ghetto?


yea... didn't some mustachioed historical figure try this out once upon a time....?
2012-12-04 09:16:49 AM
1 votes:
Anti social tennants? The religion of peace will right at home
2012-12-04 09:13:05 AM
1 votes:
Saw the pic of Wilders. Thought it was an example of the kind of people they want to put in the villages.
2012-12-04 09:08:20 AM
1 votes:

bv2112: Wouldn't that literally be a ghetto?


Beat me to it.
2012-12-04 09:01:12 AM
1 votes:
I read the article, but I haven't had my coffee yet, so I'm a bit confused. Are they talking about all undesirable neighbors, or just people who are in public housing already? The former is kind of creepy, but the latter totally make sense. If you want a free house you gotta behave, or you get a crappy free house.

/still socialist
//but do they get phones?!
2012-12-04 08:59:44 AM
1 votes:

Egoy3k: This is a monumentally stupid idea.


Not as monumentally stupid as paying for peopel to be shiatty neighbors and harrass people in their neighborhood.
2012-12-04 08:59:03 AM
1 votes:
These guys are not amused

www.duaneburnett.com
2012-12-04 08:57:59 AM
1 votes:
I wonder what the Dutch version of Section 8 is.
2012-12-04 08:53:57 AM
1 votes:

doczoidberg: Scum Village would be a cool band name.


THIS
2012-12-04 08:51:21 AM
1 votes:
Scum Village would be a cool band name.
2012-12-04 08:46:41 AM
1 votes:
First they came for the bad neighbors, and I said nothing because I hate living near bad neighbors and the scumbags get what they deserve, and I was happy.
2012-12-04 08:45:54 AM
1 votes:
Or as they're already known in Europa: The Roma.
2012-12-04 08:40:18 AM
1 votes:
The US thought of it first, so pay yer royalties, ya dutch b•stards!

i.telegraph.co.uk

/thinks sheriff Joe is friggin crazy as hell
2012-12-04 08:39:19 AM
1 votes:
Does Amsterdam have tornadoes?

Can't have a trailer park without tornadoes.
2012-12-04 07:51:33 AM
1 votes:
Yeah, let's put all the undesireables into one place. It'll be easier to keep an eye on them that way. Nothing can go wrong.

s3.amazonaws.com
2012-12-04 06:40:44 AM
1 votes:
What's Dutch for Mos Eisley?
 
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