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(Telegraph)   Amsterdam to create "Scum Villages" where nuisance neighbors, anti-social tenants will be exiled from the city and housed in caravans or containers with minimal services under constant police supervision. Or as they're known in the US: Trailer parks   (telegraph.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Amsterdam, Geert Wilders, good behaviour, antisocial behavior, soft drugs  
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8934 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2012 at 8:35 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-04 09:21:33 AM  

bv2112: Wouldn't that literally be a ghetto?


yea... didn't some mustachioed historical figure try this out once upon a time....?
 
2012-12-04 09:22:39 AM  

Millennium: bv2112: Wouldn't that literally be a ghetto?

Not de jure, because it's only supposed to be temporary: it's more like a kind of really low-security prison. But we'll see how long "temporary" lasts when put to the tests; I suspect this thing will wind up as a de facto ghetto soon enough.

Personally, I'm horrified by this. Being a jerk should not be a crime.


I don't know - I mean I wouldnt want this to be the first option for dealing with a small group of people destroying the living conditions of an entire apartment/neighborhood but at the end of the line there should be something that can be done.
 
2012-12-04 09:24:40 AM  
Coming this fall...to TLC...

Here Comes Honey Boo Boo - Amsterdam (now with more drugs and prostitution)

or as they say on the continent...

Hier komt Honing Boo Boo - Amsterdam
 
2012-12-04 09:24:51 AM  
Either scum village will be an utter hell hole filled with the Dutch equivalent of Honey Boo Boo and white trash, or it will have the opposite effect where hipsters will purposely move there (like that one episode of King of the Hill where all the Hipsters moved into the hispanic neighborhood) and it will become the place to live, or, and kind of how I think it would happen, it would become a happy place to live as the only people sending others to Scum Village will be people who look down upon others for what ever reason, people who have to have their nose in everyone else's business, HOA authoritarian types, bigots who don't want to live next to "those people", religious nut jobs who condemn those of other religions, so on and so fourth.
 
2012-12-04 09:25:36 AM  

Millennium: Not de jure, because it's only supposed to be temporary: it's more like a kind of really low-security prison.


That's exactly what the Warsaw Ghetto was.
 
2012-12-04 09:26:42 AM  
I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.
 
2012-12-04 09:27:03 AM  

robbiex0r: bv2112: Wouldn't that literally be a ghetto?

yea... didn't some mustachioed historical figure try this out once upon a time....?


It was really more of a Hans Frank thing. The actual ghettos sprung up accidentally, mainly because the Nazis didn't excel at planning ahead.
 
2012-12-04 09:29:02 AM  
Who gets to decide who is undesirable enough? Can you get your neighbor sent there because you don't like him? Or does there have to be proof of asshattary?
 
2012-12-04 09:30:05 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: I thought we just called it Baltimore?


Hell, I thought we called them "cities."
 
2012-12-04 09:32:56 AM  
The project also involves setting up a special hotline and system for victims to report their problems to the authorities.

10think.com

Got someone you don't like living in the neighborhood? A quick phone call can fix that right up for you.
 
2012-12-04 09:35:38 AM  

This text is now purple: Millennium: Not de jure, because it's only supposed to be temporary: it's more like a kind of really low-security prison.

That's exactly what the Warsaw Ghetto was.


Then it stopped being temporary, just as I suspect the scum village will.
 
2012-12-04 09:35:42 AM  
It would be a wasted opportunity if they did not call this Hamsterdam.
 
2012-12-04 09:38:12 AM  

KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.


The thing about politics is that it's not really a spectrum: it's a circle. Take the left and right wings out far enough, and they meet up on the opposite end from moderate: "antimoderate", if you will, or perhaps just "narking futs." It can get really confusing, but it's how you get the occasional case of strange bedfellows.
 
2012-12-04 09:39:14 AM  

Millennium: KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.

The thing about politics is that it's not really a spectrum: it's a circle. Take the left and right wings out far enough, and they meet up on the opposite end from moderate: "antimoderate", if you will, or perhaps just "narking futs." It can get really confusing, but it's how you get the occasional case of strange bedfellows.


Like the hard left and jihadis today
 
2012-12-04 09:40:33 AM  

liam76: Egoy3k: This is a monumentally stupid idea.

Not as monumentally stupid as paying for peopel to be shiatty neighbors and harrass people in their neighborhood.


I live in an apartment building. I have asshole neighbors so you can be assured that I know what it's like to live near assholes. It's still a bad idea to concentrate these people. Sure it looks fine on paper but these people have children (usually too many of them) and those children are going to be living in these 'scum villages' too. Why should children be made to suffer inhumane treatment because their parents are assholes? It won't break the cycle of poverty and stupidity if anything it will increase the likelihood that children will fall into the same patterns of behavior that got their parents into the villages in the first place. Any measures taken to deal with this sort of behavior should have an ultimate goal of reducing the need for such measures. This seems like a step in the wrong direction.

What should happen is that we should all stop being pushovers for this sort of thing. When people behave improperly call them on it, if that fails report them to your landlord, or call the police when necessary. I've personally dealt with many issues in my current situation and never felt the need to mention it to my landlord or the police. Most of the time all it takes is an explanation that they behavior is inconveniencing others.
 
2012-12-04 09:40:53 AM  

Joe Blowme: Anti social tennants? The religion of peace will right at home


upload.wikimedia.org

Wants to be left out of this.
 
2012-12-04 09:43:33 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: The project also involves setting up a special hotline and system for victims to report their problems to the authorities.

[10think.com image 472x339]

Got someone you don't like living in the neighborhood? A quick phone call can fix that right up for you.


Except instead of targeting specific groups based on their religion, ethnicity or sexuality, they'd be targeting douchebag neighbors. I'm OK with this.

/No, I'm not serious.
 
2012-12-04 09:44:30 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Some please tell me that this is just a very tasteless Onion article.
 
2012-12-04 09:45:46 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: There are small pockets of good areas, you just have to pay a lot to live there. I work in Hunt Valley but live all the way out in Frederick.


Yeah, there are good places. I grew up in Jefferson... Small place, nice and quiet, lots of farms. Around Frederick you have your pick of small (Jefferson, Feagaville, Myersville) and medium (Walkersville, Middletown) places. It's a pretty great area.
 
2012-12-04 09:45:52 AM  

KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.


Sadly, politics cannot be easily collapsed into a one-dimensional continuum.
 
2012-12-04 09:47:41 AM  
For those who might have wondered what the "South facing garden" refers to.... in the densely populated countries of Northern Europe, most people don't have a yard, and those that do tend to have a postage-stamp sized thingy in back of the house/apartment. South or Southwest facing yards and balconies are prized as they offer a bit more sunlight.
 
2012-12-04 09:49:20 AM  
I live in Scum Village Heights, thank you very much.

Extends pinky, sips MD 20/20.
 
2012-12-04 09:50:20 AM  

Millennium:

Personally, I'm horrified by this. Being a jerk should not be a crime.


I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. This is behavior that goes beyond "being a jerk" and, to quote TFA, "reflects hardening attitudes to routine anti-social behaviour that falls short of criminality."

If you've ever lived with someone with a personality disorder (especially anti-social PD), you'll have some grasp of what a nightmare that can be, even if physical violence never occurs.

Working 5+ years in Corrections gave me a much more realistic grasp of just what types of people can change, and how much (or in some cases, how little) certain types of people can change.

Those with personality disorders frequently require *years* of therapy, and even if they commit to that and acknowledge that they need to change, there is no guarantee they won't backslide and no guarantee they won't get worse.

I actually kind of agree that those who are polite, kind, help others, and try to get along with our neighbors should not have to be endlessly at the mercy of those whose sole concern is themselves and getting their own wants and needs gratified, regardless of the impact to others. I'm just not sure this is the answer (as appealing as it sounds at first glance).

The problem is they're not all walking around with "A--hole!" or "Potential Serial Killer" tattooed on their foreheads either. Some of them are what we call high-functioning sociopaths -- they blend in nicely because they're good at putting on the appearance of propriety and covering their arses. These people often make it to the top of corporate ranks because they don't care who they step on to get there.

The main reason this proposition is likely doomed to failure is that it would either have to discriminate against people who don't have young children, or risk subjecting the innocent children of rude/manipulative/deceptive parents to a life surrounded by dysfunctional people.

I also have a life-sized picture of Social Worker X and/or Policeman Y getting kickbacks from Persons A, B, and C to allow them to "escape" and move to another city. I also have a life-sized picture of the system turning a blind eye to a wealthy or powerful individual, no matter HOW obnoxious they are to others. Of course, a wealthy/powerful person would likely simply leave the country rather than be relegated to one of these scum villages.
 
2012-12-04 09:51:59 AM  
i50.tinypic.com

May as well completely Godwin this.
 
2012-12-04 09:52:28 AM  

xanadian: You know who ELSE put their undesirables into confined areas!??

/yes, I know this thread has already been Godwinned


Well, they're essentially swamp Germans, so I see where you might be going with that....
 
2012-12-04 09:53:07 AM  
When mega white people start forcing people into ghettos you better watch out.
 
2012-12-04 09:53:12 AM  

Son of Thunder: KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.

Sadly, politics cannot be easily collapsed into a one-dimensional continuum.



This is definitely somewhere around the back where the circle meets. They should monetize this as a reality show. I'd totally like to watch "Scum Village Housewives" every week.
 
2012-12-04 09:53:20 AM  

Egoy3k: liam76: Egoy3k: This is a monumentally stupid idea.

Not as monumentally stupid as paying for peopel to be shiatty neighbors and harrass people in their neighborhood.

I live in an apartment building. I have asshole neighbors so you can be assured that I know what it's like to live near assholes. It's still a bad idea to concentrate these people. Sure it looks fine on paper but these people have children (usually too many of them) and those children are going to be living in these 'scum villages' too. Why should children be made to suffer inhumane treatment because their parents are assholes? It won't break the cycle of poverty and stupidity if anything it will increase the likelihood that children will fall into the same patterns of behavior that got their parents into the villages in the first place. Any measures taken to deal with this sort of behavior should have an ultimate goal of reducing the need for such measures. This seems like a step in the wrong direction.


I would be against it if they have kids.


Egoy3k: What should happen is that we should all stop being pushovers for this sort of thing. When people behave improperly call them on it, if that fails report them to your landlord, or call the police when necessary. I've personally dealt with many issues in my current situation and never felt the need to mention it to my landlord or the police. Most of the time all it takes is an explanation that they behavior is inconveniencing others


I don't know how bad these areas are but there are place where calling assholes on being asshoels can get your ass kicked.

As far as landlords if this is govt housing I don't know if there is alandlord, or if they have the power to boot them out.

As for the police these seem to be things that don't rise to the level of arrest or even ticketing, but that doesn't mean it isn't problem.

It seems like this is a problem Amterdam has been grappling with for quite some time, and in principle there is nothing immoral abotu it, and in practice (depending on the execution) it could work.
 
2012-12-04 09:54:24 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i50.tinypic.com image 620x387]

May as well completely Godwin this.


So people who fight modernday fascism are hitler? WOW, you will make a good dhimmi.
 
2012-12-04 09:55:44 AM  

Egoy3k: liam76: Egoy3k: This is a monumentally stupid idea.

Not as monumentally stupid as paying for peopel to be shiatty neighbors and harrass people in their neighborhood.

I live in an apartment building. I have asshole neighbors so you can be assured that I know what it's like to live near assholes. It's still a bad idea to concentrate these people. Sure it looks fine on paper but these people have children (usually too many of them) and those children are going to be living in these 'scum villages' too. Why should children be made to suffer inhumane treatment because their parents are assholes? It won't break the cycle of poverty and stupidity if anything it will increase the likelihood that children will fall into the same patterns of behavior that got their parents into the villages in the first place. Any measures taken to deal with this sort of behavior should have an ultimate goal of reducing the need for such measures. This seems like a step in the wrong direction.

What should happen is that we should all stop being pushovers for this sort of thing. When people behave improperly call them on it, if that fails report them to your landlord, or call the police when necessary. I've personally dealt with many issues in my current situation and never felt the need to mention it to my landlord or the police. Most of the time all it takes is an explanation that they behavior is inconveniencing others.


I don't think there's anything we can do to avoid having the children suffer for the wrongs of the parents. Are the children not going to suffer because the parents keep getting kicked out of where they are living?

I think this has the potential to go good or go bad and without trying it I don't think we can say what the result will be.

As it stands now bad behavior usually has minimal consequences, there's little incentive to shape up. This might provide the incentive.
 
2012-12-04 09:55:56 AM  

Joe Blowme: Anti social tennants? The religion of peace will right at home


veedeevadeevoodee: "scUM Villages" ... Or as they're known in the US: Ann Arbor TEXAS

/ FTFY

/FTFY
 
2012-12-04 09:57:32 AM  
Occupy Wall Street was the first thing that came to my mind.
 
2012-12-04 09:59:04 AM  
Divide and conquer. Well, not conquer but one problem family/person is easier to deal with than a rabble.
 
2012-12-04 09:59:29 AM  

namegoeshere: Who gets to decide who is undesirable enough? Can you get your neighbor sent there because you don't like him? Or does there have to be proof of asshattary?


There will be a tribunal with torture.
 
2012-12-04 09:59:36 AM  

Joe Blowme: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i50.tinypic.com image 620x387]

May as well completely Godwin this.

So people who fight modernday fascism are hitler? WOW, you will make a good dhimmi.


It's not fascism it's social conservatism.
 
2012-12-04 09:59:44 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: pseudologue: This.
/moving there in a month
//Butcher Hill
///Oh God, what am I doing with my life?
///Natty Boh

There are small pockets of good areas, you just have to pay a lot to live there. I work in Hunt Valley but live all the way out in Frederick.


everyone I've met who lived in baltimore said they loved it. that's probably less than half a dozen people... but, it can't be that bad. it is a city, all city's have something to offer, or no one would live there.
 
2012-12-04 10:00:07 AM  
Nazi ghettos for the anti social!
 
2012-12-04 10:00:33 AM  
www.timdrussell.com

Living the dream.
 
2012-12-04 10:00:59 AM  

Joe Blowme: So people who fight modernday fascism are hitler? WOW, you will make a good dhimmi.


Nah. Anti-Racist Action, Antifa, and UAF provide valuable services to the community and groups such as the Golden Dawn, National Front, BNP, EDL, neo-nazis, and the Republican party deserve more than a few good kicks.

ima turkey: Occupy Wall Street was the first thing that came to my mind.


Just plain Wall Street was mine.
 
2012-12-04 10:01:39 AM  
Final solution!
 
2012-12-04 10:02:36 AM  
Bravo subby.
 
2012-12-04 10:03:46 AM  
I kind of like this idea.

skinink: First they came for the bad neighbors, and I said nothing because I hate living near bad neighbors and the scumbags get what they deserve, and I was happy.


Then normal folks could relax and property values soared...

This seems pretty awesome because most people live near at least one jerk that treats their neighborhood like a cheap prostitute. The problem is that this is just how they are and that temporary residence becomes permanent because these people will always be jerks. It will start with just the obnoxious jerks and will eventually be broadened to include the poor and lazy. Crime will soar and spread.

I know people hate HOA's but it's the solution to this problem. People who don't want to to deal with the ridiculous rules can simply live elsewhere.
 
2012-12-04 10:04:06 AM  

Joe Blowme: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i50.tinypic.com image 620x387]

May as well completely Godwin this.

So people who fight modernday fascism are hitler?


He's the one (Geert Wilders) that proposed this plan.
 
2012-12-04 10:05:10 AM  
New guests for his show.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-04 10:06:52 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Joe Blowme: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i50.tinypic.com image 620x387]

May as well completely Godwin this.

So people who fight modernday fascism are hitler?

He's the one (Geert Wilders) that proposed this plan.


FTA:"because the plan echoes a proposal from Geert Wilders"

Not his plan, he is against the modernday nazis, the religion of peace.
 
2012-12-04 10:06:56 AM  

treesloth: Yeah, there are good places. I grew up in Jefferson... Small place, nice and quiet, lots of farms. Around Frederick you have your pick of small (Jefferson, Feagaville, Myersville) and medium (Walkersville, Middletown) places. It's a pretty great area.


Middletown is the new it town for the wealthy. My roommate is looking at a really old house there and they're asking a lot and it still needs a ton of work done to it.

pute kisses like a man: everyone I've met who lived in baltimore said they loved it. that's probably less than half a dozen people... but, it can't be that bad. it is a city, all city's have something to offer, or no one would live there.


People are typically not very smart
 
2012-12-04 10:09:19 AM  

Son of Thunder: KarmicDisaster: I can't decide, is that super right wing or super left wing? Right wing because they can force you into an internment camp and take away your rights. Left wing because they can do it for being "antisocial". Confusing.

Sadly, politics cannot be easily collapsed into a one-dimensional continuum.


Well, the Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) students I met this fall are blaming the right-wingers. They're wagering that the primary people to be put here are going to be people that immigrated from Eastern Europe. There's a hard right faction (in the student's minds) driving this.
 
2012-12-04 10:10:57 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: The project also involves setting up a special hotline and system for victims to report their problems to the authorities.

[10think.com image 472x339]

Got someone you don't like living in the neighborhood? A quick phone call can fix that right up for you.


Since antisocial people need to eat somewhere:

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-04 10:11:42 AM  

fyrewede: I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. This is behavior that goes beyond "being a jerk" and, to quote TFA, "reflects hardening attitudes to routine anti-social behaviour that falls short of criminality."


So, "you've committed no crime, but we're going to punish you anyway" ?

Despite your wall of text, I don't believe you've thought this through.
 
2012-12-04 10:12:05 AM  

Makh: beta_plus: I wonder what the Dutch version of Section 8 is.

New Amsterdam?


Old New York?
 
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