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(NewsChannel 5 Nashville)   Tennessee woman files false rape report because "the sex was bad"   (newschannel5.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, Tennessee Woman, Clarksville, Infraction  
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18047 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2012 at 4:19 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



468 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-12-03 11:28:50 PM  
Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.
 
2012-12-03 11:34:30 PM  
wtvf.images.worldnow.com
I'd counter-accuse her of rape rather than admit to willingly bed her. Is, too, funny, Bathia.
 
2012-12-03 11:55:21 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.


This. I hate women who do this sort of thing.
 
2012-12-04 12:15:28 AM  
A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.
 
2012-12-04 12:30:33 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: [wtvf.images.worldnow.com image 400x300]
I'd counter-accuse her of rape rather than admit to willingly bed her. Is, too, funny, Bathia.


Look at that face. I'm thinking the guy wasn't the reason the sex was bad. (certainly not the only reason).
 
2012-12-04 12:35:34 AM  
Maybe prison would have been good for him. He was clearly desperate for a relationship.
 
2012-12-04 12:44:19 AM  
Police charged her with filing a false report. A bond was set at $2,000.

Of course, the man she accused was look at what, 10 years? This seems fair.
 
2012-12-04 12:48:35 AM  

GAT_00: Police charged her with filing a false report. A bond was set at $2,000.

Of course, the man she accused was look at what, 10 years? This seems fair.


She's just been charged. I"m sure there will be other punative measures when she either pleads guilty or is found guilty by a jury of her peers.

Of course she won't spend the rest of her life on a sex offender registry which her unskilled paramour narrowly avoided.
 
2012-12-04 12:58:21 AM  

Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.


Of all the false rapes, this one's the funniest. Not like that stripper in the Duke case. That was just money.
 
2012-12-04 01:07:39 AM  
If that guy wasn't embarrassed before...
 
2012-12-04 01:07:44 AM  

Ambivalence: GAT_00: Police charged her with filing a false report. A bond was set at $2,000.

Of course, the man she accused was look at what, 10 years? This seems fair.

She's just been charged. I"m sure there will be other punative measures when she either pleads guilty or is found guilty by a jury of her peers.

Of course she won't spend the rest of her life on a sex offender registry which her unskilled paramour narrowly avoided.


That's why you do oral.
 
2012-12-04 01:07:45 AM  

*scans headline*

25.media.tumblr.com
"So....This is *truly* illegitimate this time?"

 
2012-12-04 01:17:30 AM  

Lorelle: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

This. I hate women who do this sort of thing.


should be a felony
and should have a pretty big penalty attached to it ...

on the other hand, if the penalty is TOO large, then the women who file false reports might be LESS likely to admit they lied in the first place ....

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
maybe death penalty ....
that would put the FEAR of filing a false rape charge in the first place

sigh
at least the cops did their jobs and charged her
 
2012-12-04 01:30:29 AM  
Am I the only one who clicked the link expecting to read that the prosecutor is still pursuing charges against her attacker victim anyway?
 
2012-12-04 01:38:18 AM  

namatad: Lorelle: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

This. I hate women who do this sort of thing.

should be a felony
and should have a pretty big penalty attached to it ...

on the other hand, if the penalty is TOO large, then the women who file false reports might be LESS likely to admit they lied in the first place ....

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
maybe death penalty ....
that would put the FEAR of filing a false rape charge in the first place

sigh
at least the cops did their jobs and charged her


The problem is proving a false report as opposed to one you can't prove. Rape culture still exists, and women are still afraid to acknowledge when they've been raped for fear that they won't be believed.
 
2012-12-04 01:38:58 AM  

Lukeonia1: Am I the only one who clicked the link expecting to read that the prosecutor is still pursuing charges against her attacker victim anyway?


I was worried that it might be the case. I was HAPPY to see that she was being charged.
Hero tag for the police and prosecutor? maybe?

I would have used something other than assinine .... what do we have for someone who should be beaten senseless for CRYING RAPE? Scary isnt scary enough. Horrific.

Poor guy, removing the stench of being accused of rape can be very hard.
She should have to stand with a placard for a month or two.
"My name is LYNETTE LEE. I falsely accused a man of raping me. I am a HORRIBLE person. Here are some tomatoes to throw at me."

Would also be sweet if he could sue her in civil court. Probably can.
Defamation of Character?
 
2012-12-04 01:41:53 AM  

Exception Collection: The problem is proving a false report as opposed to one you can't prove. Rape culture still exists, and women are still afraid to acknowledge when they've been raped for fear that they won't be believed.


Believe me, I know. And in the end, the LAST thing that we want is these women NOT coming forward and admitting that they lied in the first place. Bad enough that the poor buy might end up in prison (RE: the case in NC? which she recanted and he is still in prison).

The worst part is the damage this does to actual rape victims. At some point, more and more rapists start to use the story. "NOW, she is just trying to get me in trouble.", "Not my fault that she ...."

shudder
farking hate people like this and the damage they do to improving the cause
 
2012-12-04 01:52:52 AM  

Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.


This.

There is nothing amusing about this, at all. Not only did she ruin the life of a man who is innocent, by her own admission, she has furthered the rape culture which makes women unlikely to come forward and admit they were actually raped.
 
2012-12-04 02:42:43 AM  

namatad: Lukeonia1: Am I the only one who clicked the link expecting to read that the prosecutor is still pursuing charges against her attacker victim anyway?

I was worried that it might be the case. I was HAPPY to see that she was being charged.
Hero tag for the police and prosecutor? maybe?

I would have used something other than assinine .... what do we have for someone who should be beaten senseless for CRYING RAPE? Scary isnt scary enough. Horrific.

Poor guy, removing the stench of being accused of rape can be very hard.
She should have to stand with a placard for a month or two.
"My name is LYNETTE LEE. I falsely accused a man of raping me. I am a HORRIBLE person. Here are some tomatoes to throw at me."

Would also be sweet if he could sue her in civil court. Probably can.
Defamation of Character?


The tag was originally "amusing", but that was changed. "Hero" tag might work if there was a notation at the end of the headline as to whom the tag was for.
 
2012-12-04 02:47:50 AM  

Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.


Did mods change the tag or something? Cause I didn't see any amusement.

false rape accusations are no laughing matter, unless you're falsely accusing a clown of rape.
 
2012-12-04 04:21:38 AM  
That is so low. Fark you, lady.
 
2012-12-04 04:22:40 AM  

Exception Collection: Rape culture still exists


Not where I'm at. Everyone around here is pretty anti-rape.
 
2012-12-04 04:28:39 AM  
Well fellas, there you have it. Put some effort into it next time... it pays off in more ways than one, apparently.
 
2012-12-04 04:31:07 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Exception Collection: Rape culture still exists

Not where I'm at. Everyone around here is pretty anti-rape.


Anti-rape, yes. Anti-things-that-support-rape, probably not. Victim blaming, ostracization of those that have been victimized, attacks on women as "sluts" while men that get laid often are "studs"... those are all part of rape culture.

/My god, I'm turning into a feminist.
//As long as I don't turn into a RadFem I think I'll be OK.
 
2012-12-04 04:31:21 AM  
I want to strangle women who do this. Rape is a real problem; making false accusations trivializes the issue and makes it harder for women who have been raped.
 
2012-12-04 04:32:05 AM  
This thread will turn out well...
 
2012-12-04 04:32:31 AM  

serial_crusher: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

Did mods change the tag or something? Cause I didn't see any amusement.

false rape accusations are no laughing matter, unless you're falsely accusing a clown of rape.


See my previous comment. The tag was changed.
 
2012-12-04 04:33:49 AM  

Exception Collection: AverageAmericanGuy: Exception Collection: Rape culture still exists

Not where I'm at. Everyone around here is pretty anti-rape.

Anti-rape, yes. Anti-things-that-support-rape, probably not. Victim blaming, ostracization of those that have been victimized, attacks on women as "sluts" while men that get laid often are "studs"... those are all part of rape culture.

/My god, I'm turning into a feminist.
//As long as I don't turn into a RadFem I think I'll be OK.


A key that opens every lock is a master key.

A lock that opens to every key is a shiatty lock.

That's not rape-culture. That's science.
 
2012-12-04 04:35:02 AM  

karmaceutical: Well fellas, there you have it. Put some effort into it next time... it pays off in more ways than one, apparently.


I don't know, man. If she was crazy enough to report him to the police because he was a lame fark, what would have happened if he had been good? Like the Overly Attached Girlfriend, only not as cute
 
2012-12-04 04:35:37 AM  
Is it time yet to change the law to be fair?

I'm all for protecting the name of the accuser in the case of rape but if, and only if, we also protect the name of the accused until after the trial. If he's found guilty, then put his name in every paper, but until then he deserves just as much right not to have his name dragged through the mud as she does.
 
2012-12-04 04:35:41 AM  

Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.


They should be allowed to choose between an equivelant prison sentence and being rape-raped.
 
2012-12-04 04:36:31 AM  
She should at least have to pay for a billboard to be put up in her home town, with her name and face on it, saying that she lied about being raped and that billboard has to stay up for at least three years.
 
2012-12-04 04:37:03 AM  

doglover: Ambivalence: GAT_00: Police charged her with filing a false report. A bond was set at $2,000.

Of course, the man she accused was look at what, 10 years? This seems fair.

She's just been charged. I"m sure there will be other punative measures when she either pleads guilty or is found guilty by a jury of her peers.

Of course she won't spend the rest of her life on a sex offender registry which her unskilled paramour narrowly avoided.

That's why you do oral.


Ahem, your thread is 5 submissions down from this one.

/runs
 
2012-12-04 04:39:13 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: A key that opens every lock is a master key.

A lock that opens to every key is a shiatty lock.

That's not rape-culture. That's science.


Hate to break it to you, but what you have isn't a key, though I can see how you might have mistaken it for one. And your joke, right there, *is* rape culture.
 
2012-12-04 04:42:30 AM  
All rape is legitimate rape. even made up rape. right?

I get confused.

/ Prison time should be served, but then no one would EVER recant false accusations.
 
2012-12-04 04:43:03 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: [wtvf.images.worldnow.com image 400x300]
I'd counter-accuse her of rape rather than admit to willingly bed her. Is, too, funny, Bathia.


upload.wikimedia.org

/is so vewy haht
 
2012-12-04 04:44:45 AM  

Exception Collection: AverageAmericanGuy: A key that opens every lock is a master key.

A lock that opens to every key is a shiatty lock.

That's not rape-culture. That's science.

And your joke, right there, *is* rape culture.


I've seen the light. I'll never use a key again.
 
2012-12-04 04:45:06 AM  

randomjsa: Is it time yet to change the law to be fair?

I'm all for protecting the name of the accuser in the case of rape but if, and only if, we also protect the name of the accused until after the trial. If he's found guilty, then put his name in every paper, but until then he deserves just as much right not to have his name dragged through the mud as she does.


Holy farkshiat, I agree with something this troll said. Were the Mayans right? Is it ending soon?

Yes. Untill someone has been proven guilty in a court of law, the names of either party should never be public information. Once accused, even if proven innocent, it's too damn difficult to shake loose that reputation.

/Innocent until proven guilty?
//Not to society.
///Slashies?
////Of course!
 
2012-12-04 04:46:55 AM  

A Terrible Human: randomjsa: Is it time yet to change the law to be fair?

I'm all for protecting the name of the accuser in the case of rape but if, and only if, we also protect the name of the accused until after the trial. If he's found guilty, then put his name in every paper, but until then he deserves just as much right not to have his name dragged through the mud as she does.

You's trolling.


Oddly enough, I think that's reasonable. Though since sometimes one accuser brings others out of their hiding spots, maybe that wouldn't work.

/Tired.
 
2012-12-04 04:49:15 AM  

metaskie: randomjsa: Is it time yet to change the law to be fair?

I'm all for protecting the name of the accuser in the case of rape but if, and only if, we also protect the name of the accused until after the trial. If he's found guilty, then put his name in every paper, but until then he deserves just as much right not to have his name dragged through the mud as she does.

Holy farkshiat, I agree with something this troll said. Were the Mayans right? Is it ending soon?

Yes. Untill someone has been proven guilty in a court of law, the names of either party should never be public information. Once accused, even if proven innocent, it's too damn difficult to shake loose that reputation.

/Innocent until proven guilty?
//Not to society.
///Slashies?
////Of course!


Broken clock, yada yada yada.

/Even Bill O'Reilly is right every so often
 
2012-12-04 04:50:18 AM  
Goddamnit. This is exactly the kind of woman who helps idiots like Todd Akin perpetuate the myth that, at best, there are different kinds of rape. At worst, she makes all women look like they want the sex every single time and just decide afterward that they didn't want it after all.
 
2012-12-04 04:51:45 AM  
Well, this man has been accused of things twice. Once was rape. The other was poor sexual performance. He should be able to put contrary testimony on the local news.
 
2012-12-04 04:56:06 AM  
I had never heard of Meetme.com until I had read the story about the guy who murdered the girl he had met through the site yesterday. And now there's this story.

I think I'll stick to OKCupid.
 
2012-12-04 04:59:31 AM  
The woman was horrible in claiming rape. She has been charged with filing a false police report and I hope she is vigorously prosecuted, to the fullest extent of the law.

This does bring up a related point, however, which is: Don't fark people you just met. Had the defendant not come clean, the guy could have easily had weeks, months, or even years (if he was convicted) ruined with dealing with this case, not to mention expenses in hiring a lawyer, adverse impact to his reputation and/or job prospects, etc.

Best to wait till marriage, or at least until your relationship has been steady for a long enough period of time that the other party cannot easily cry rape.
 
2012-12-04 05:00:57 AM  
Think it's remotely possible that she didn't understand the definition of rape?
Or that some not-agreed-to act occurred, and she didn't understand that going to a hotel room means you get the package deal, whatever he wants?
I know, everybody ought to know these things, but mild intellectual disability maybe? Possibly combined with being "protected" from sex education?
These things do happen ya know.

Male
Female
 
2012-12-04 05:01:08 AM  
I'm impressed at the focus on what's important in here: Everything is women's fault. Rape culture occurs because of false rape accusations, preventing false rape accusations is more important than allowing rape victims to come forward, people like this complicate the definition rape and consequently make rapists more sympathetic (though anyone who suggests there's male-driven rape culture is just wrong because we all totally know rape is bad)...just really impressive.

Exception Collection is my hero for the night. Everyone else can fark off back to reddit. One forum full of rape apologists was enough, thank you very much.
 
2012-12-04 05:06:52 AM  

ExcaliburPrime111: Don't fark people you just met.


This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
 
2012-12-04 05:07:12 AM  

ExcaliburPrime111: the guy could have easily had weeks, months, or even years (if he was convicted) ruined with dealing with this case, not to mention expenses in hiring a lawyer, adverse impact to his reputation and/or job prospects, etc.

Best to wait till marriage


Wait, isn't that what you were describing already?
 
2012-12-04 05:08:45 AM  
So... why are we believing the woman's second story instead of the first one? Isn't it quite possible that she in fact was raped, but recanted her (true) accusation? It is a fairly well-documented phenomenon that actual victims of legitimate rape sometimes do just that, for any number of reasons.
 
HBK
2012-12-04 05:09:43 AM  

Exception Collection: AverageAmericanGuy: A key that opens every lock is a master key.

A lock that opens to every key is a shiatty lock.

That's not rape-culture. That's science.

Hate to break it to you, but what you have isn't a key, though I can see how you might have mistaken it for one. And your joke, right there, *is* rape culture.


EVERYTHING IS RAPE CULTURE~~!!! WHY CAN'T YOU ALL SEE THAT!!!!

/It's like I'm the only one who sees all the rape!
 
2012-12-04 05:10:01 AM  
This is what Republicans think women do all the time.
 
2012-12-04 05:11:33 AM  

Exception Collection: Oddly enough, I think that's reasonable. Though since sometimes one accuser brings others out of their hiding spots, maybe that wouldn't work.


Once he's convicted and his name is in the paper...

metaskie: Yes. Untill someone has been proven guilty in a court of law, the names of either party should never be public information. Once accused, even if proven innocent, it's too damn difficult to shake loose that reputation.


It's actually done that way in some other countries. I want to say one of them is Britain but I could be wrong.
 
2012-12-04 05:11:54 AM  

HBK: Exception Collection: AverageAmericanGuy: A key that opens every lock is a master key.

A lock that opens to every key is a shiatty lock.

That's not rape-culture. That's science.

Hate to break it to you, but what you have isn't a key, though I can see how you might have mistaken it for one. And your joke, right there, *is* rape culture.

EVERYTHING IS RAPE CULTURE~~!!! WHY CAN'T YOU ALL SEE THAT!!!!

/It's like I'm the only one who sees all the rape!


Erhmagerd! Yer my hirroo
 
2012-12-04 05:11:59 AM  

BronyMedic: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

This.

There is nothing amusing about this, at all. Not only did she ruin the life of a man who is innocent, by her own admission, she has furthered the rape culture which makes women unlikely to come forward and admit they were actually raped.


It's amusing because all women are disgusting liars out to trap men! There is no such thing as rape, it's just a feminazi conspiracy- look how many stories there are about women lying, it just proves all women are evil!
/Confirmation bias you say? Never heard of it...
//If one woman lies....one woman is lying.
 
2012-12-04 05:22:43 AM  

ks1415: Exception Collection is my hero for the night. Everyone else can fark off back to reddit. One forum full of rape apologists was enough, thank you very much.


Heh. Rape and consent issues are of huge importance to me - not because I've been raped (though with my luck I expect that to happen one day), but because others have. And the issue of false accusations is a very real issue; a friend of mine is writing back and forth to an old friend she wants to start dating - but can't, because he (supposedly, I don't know all the facts) was thrown in prison on nothing more than three "eyewitnesses" and a "bad" alibi. (The alibi was by the the current girlfriend, aka the victim's mother; supposedly her (adult) daughter had propositioned him and was turned down, so she and some friends that disliked him perjured themselves. That's what my friend says, at least. I'm not sure what to believe.)

Consent is critical to any relationship.
 
2012-12-04 05:28:18 AM  
In Sweden her accusation probably would have stood up.
 
2012-12-04 05:28:38 AM  

ExcaliburPrime111:
Best to wait till marriage, or at least until your relationship has been steady for a long enough period of time that the other party cannot easily cry rape.


Not much protection, that.
Anytime you've been alone in the room with another person, that person can "cry rape". This hazard is particularly present when dealing with mentally unbalanced and vulnerable persons. Your reputation will by no means be cleared by the little detail that you were never convicted, or even formally charged. And unless you can prove malice on the part of the accuser, you can't even seek redress in civil court.
So have all the (consensual, considerate, safe) sex you want, but don't exist near crazy people.
 
2012-12-04 05:31:01 AM  

Exception Collection: And the issue of false accusations is a very real issue


Oh, I know. It's just occasionally made a priority in a way that potentially harms other causes. It's like shark attacks; it happens, and it's horrible when it does, but it's rare enough that protecting against it should really be done with a decent sense of perspective.

Consent is critical to any relationship.

Hear, hear.
 
2012-12-04 05:45:26 AM  

Exception Collection: AverageAmericanGuy: Exception Collection: Rape culture still exists

Not where I'm at. Everyone around here is pretty anti-rape.

Anti-rape, yes. Anti-things-that-support-rape, probably not. Victim blaming, ostracization of those that have been victimized, attacks on women as "sluts" while men that get laid often are "studs"... those are all part of rape culture.


Gonna have to disagree with you there. idolizing guys who get laid while deriding the same in women is an unethical double-standard, but it has nothing to do with rape. It's on one side of the "valid consent" line, while rape is on the other side; this simply has to be the line, and I gotta say, it kinda bothers me when things on one side of this line get mixed up with things on the other side of this line.

For example, the fact that a woman consensually sleeps around should have no bearing on whether you believe them when they claim to have been raped, and likewise the fact that a man consensually sleeps around a lot (whether you think his behaviour may be sleazy, or even misogynistic) should have no bearing on whether you believe him when he says he didn't cross that line. Over and again I find the importance of this line is overlooked and obfuscated.

And yeah, I hear what you're saying about the need to discourage victim-blaming and ostracization of the victim -stuff that some Republican candidates have said would seem to indicate that that is still a valid problem. I'm just saying it's important to not mix up promiscuity (or even judgements of promiscuity) with rape. They are on opposite sides of the line.
 
2012-12-04 05:46:34 AM  
Never stick your dick in crazy.

/what a horrible woman
//ruining a mans life and the lives of other women who now won't come forward
 
2012-12-04 05:48:15 AM  
Heh. I think my favorite of these stories was the one from Arizona from a few years back. Young woman filed a rape claim, no information on her attacker, police asked around and people told them she was a huge party girl and drama queen and they threatened her with everything under the sun till she recanted then filed for the same filing a false police report charge which she plead guilty to.

Couple years later, pretty much by absolute accident, they managed to catch a serial rapist. Turns out he took pictures of all his victims as he was torturing them. In the process of tracking down the identity of all the victims so they could press as many charges as they could, guess whose pictures were in there?

Or a person I know who filed charges. Police investigated her, and on the word of a known junkie prostitute who had stolen money from my friend accepted that my friend was a junkie prostitute, and then spent a couple hours interrogating her, yelling at her, threatening to charge her for prostitution unless she admitted she'd made it all up, all the while locked in a small room with a big angry male cop. When she agreed that she made it all up they asked her why. She didn't know why she'd made it up. So they explained to her that she'd made it up because she was a junkie prostitute and worried she was pregnant with a black man's baby which she wouldn't be able to explain. She agreed with them again. So now that they had the full story, they filed charges for filing a false police report, complete with her confession on record that she'd made it up because she was afraid she might be pregnant and have a black baby.
 
2012-12-04 05:49:01 AM  

Lukeonia1: Am I the only one who clicked the link expecting to read that the prosecutor is still pursuing charges against her attacker victim anyway?


No, unfortunately.
 
2012-12-04 05:53:42 AM  

HotWingAgenda: ExcaliburPrime111: Don't fark people you just met.

This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?


If you don't bury the body.
 
2012-12-04 05:57:56 AM  
A girl once told a bunch of people that I raped her because I turned her down for sex. She later admitted to lying, but it still followed me for years.
 
2012-12-04 06:02:46 AM  
I'd plea guilty on the condition that people don't find out I slept with THAT
 
2012-12-04 06:03:51 AM  
What if there's more to this than what we're seeing?

What if it really wasn't consensual, she turned him in, she found out the typical sentancing, and then she decided it was too harsh? What then? Do we even care enough to find out? I'm seeing a lot of people rush to judgement.

Are we really so sure that the third-party news team will dig into the facts for completeness, or do they just want a story? It's a news report, not a court verdict.

How much are we projecting at this woman due to recent political statements? Read the comments here. People are going so far as to blame her for other people's silence on non-related rapes. That's really pushing it. There are so many other factors involved that will play a much greater role in that decision. She also can't be blamed if others use her as a point of reference. We're basically saying that other people don't have responsibility for how they apply information that they hear. Did she even ask for news coverage?

The entire thing just feels like a witch hunt.
 
2012-12-04 06:06:11 AM  
Painfully bad.
 
2012-12-04 06:06:17 AM  
But was it legitimate sex?

/wish I was here earlier
 
2012-12-04 06:09:15 AM  

randomjsa: Is it time yet to change the law to be fair?

I'm all for protecting the name of the accuser in the case of rape but if, and only if, we also protect the name of the accused until after the trial. If he's found guilty, then put his name in every paper, but until then he deserves just as much right not to have his name dragged through the mud as she does.


This THIS a 1,000 times this. We have a local paper that prints "Samuel T. Laukenshclemmer, 41, of 137 Falcon Rd, Westbury, who works at Azimuth Inc., 99 Lost Highway, Clemmer, is accused of raping a woman at her residence. It is the policy of this paper to not reveal the identity of victims of rape."

What complete and utter bullshiat.

In more than one case it has later been found that the girl was PO'ed at the accused over something, and the whole accusation of rape or whathaveyou was false. The recant is NEVER found on the front page, and the girl is never exposed, much less charged, and the hapless guy is farked forever now in so many ways.

I understand and agree that we do not want to make it harder for real rape victims to come forward. But men should have some rights too.
 
2012-12-04 06:11:43 AM  

Dracolich: What if there's more to this than what we're seeing?

What if it really wasn't consensual, she turned him in, she found out the typical sentancing, and then she decided it was too harsh? What then? Do we even care enough to find out? I'm seeing a lot of people rush to judgement.

Are we really so sure that the third-party news team will dig into the facts for completeness, or do they just want a story? It's a news report, not a court verdict.

How much are we projecting at this woman due to recent political statements? Read the comments here. People are going so far as to blame her for other people's silence on non-related rapes. That's really pushing it. There are so many other factors involved that will play a much greater role in that decision. She also can't be blamed if others use her as a point of reference. We're basically saying that other people don't have responsibility for how they apply information that they hear. Did she even ask for news coverage?

The entire thing just feels like a witch hunt.


If she changed her mind due to "harsh sentencing" then she is still guilty. By taking that decision away from law enforcement, she would allow the possibility of someone else getting victimized.
 
2012-12-04 06:17:22 AM  
"A girl once told a bunch of people that I raped her because I turned her down for sex. She later admitted to lying, but it still followed me for years."

Is your name Joseph?
 
2012-12-04 06:21:43 AM  

ks1415: I'm impressed at the focus on what's important in here: Everything is women's fault. Rape culture occurs because of false rape accusations, preventing false rape accusations is more important than allowing rape victims to come forward, people like this complicate the definition rape and consequently make rapists more sympathetic (though anyone who suggests there's male-driven rape culture is just wrong because we all totally know rape is bad)...just really impressive.

Exception Collection is my hero for the night. Everyone else can fark off back to reddit. One forum full of rape apologists was enough, thank you very much.


No, you're right. Her decision to file a false rape report was obviously some man's fault.
 
2012-12-04 06:22:22 AM  
But Marital Rape is still legit, right? Todd said it was!

/I kid
 
2012-12-04 06:24:48 AM  
I'd just like to say that I didn't enjoy it either, but I didn't call the cops.
 
2012-12-04 06:24:49 AM  
wtvf.images.worldnow.com 

www.platformnation.com
 
2012-12-04 06:26:05 AM  

untaken_name:
No, you're right. Her decision to file a false rape report was obviously some man's fault.


Yeah, he was bad in the sack. Its right there in the headline.
 
2012-12-04 06:26:48 AM  
We should let real rape victims determine her sentence.
 
2012-12-04 06:27:00 AM  

mike_d85: untaken_name:
No, you're right. Her decision to file a false rape report was obviously some man's fault.

Yeah, he was bad in the sack. Its right there in the headline.


That's why I said "obviously".
 
2012-12-04 06:28:31 AM  
Exception Collection:Rape culture

ks1415:Rape culture

Seriously, how do you two even leave the house? We live in rape culture, murder culture, auto theft culture, starting wars under false pretenses culture, cheating on tax return culture.

Not all men promote or condone rape. Not all men are compelled by their penises to achieve intercourse at any possible cost. Stop lumping me in with them. I also don't steal cars, murder, start wars, cheat on my taxes (though my last audit turned up a couple math errors and a relative lack of understanding of how in the hell I was really supposed to do depreciation, so you got me there.)

Jesus.
 
2012-12-04 06:32:09 AM  

ingineervt: "A girl once told a bunch of people that I raped her because I turned her down for sex. She later admitted to lying, but it still followed me for years."

Is your name Joseph?


No, in his case she claimed God raped her.
 
2012-12-04 06:33:47 AM  

fredbox: Not all men promote or condone rape. Not all men are compelled by their penises to achieve intercourse at any possible cost. Stop lumping me in with them.


Interesting choice of words
 
2012-12-04 06:35:14 AM  

Dracolich: fredbox: Not all men promote or condone rape. Not all men are compelled by their penises to achieve intercourse at any possible cost. Stop lumping me in with them.

Interesting choice of words


How's that?
 
2012-12-04 06:38:20 AM  

E5bie: Or that some not-agreed-to act occurred, and she didn't understand that going to a hotel room means you get the package deal, whatever he wants?


Um....what?
 
2012-12-04 06:40:39 AM  
Is she one of those fat round chicks with no boobs?
They don't like anything.
 
2012-12-04 06:42:21 AM  
So this is the thread where people suggest that a man falsely accused of rape should shut up and deal with the consequences of being falsely accused of rape because men don't matter

People who think false rape accusations are not a big deal are almost as sick as people like Todd akin.

/I will be falsely accused of being a rape apologist when I said no such thing
//rape is bad
 
2012-12-04 06:43:12 AM  
This animal deserves to be punished for rape. She was ruining a man's life forever. This monster should take responsibility and suffer jail time.
 
2012-12-04 06:43:31 AM  

fredbox: Dracolich: fredbox: Not all men promote or condone rape. Not all men are compelled by their penises to achieve intercourse at any possible cost. Stop lumping me in with them.

Interesting choice of words

How's that?


"Lumping something in" is based on a physical process. It's used as verbal imagery. So, in this case, I'm visualizing you being essentially tossed onto a pile of men who are compelled by their penises to achive intercourse and promote rape. Use your imagination at this point for all of the details. Then, over that image there's one of those old red circle with a line through it "no" signs.
 
2012-12-04 06:45:19 AM  

BronyMedic: There is nothing amusing about this, at all. Not only did she ruin the life of a man who is innocent, by her own admission, she has furthered the rape culture which makes women unlikely to come forward and admit they were actually raped.


Rape culture?

Show me anywhere in the US where rape is not a crime. The total number of rapes has been steadily declining and the rapes per 100K persons has been dropping even faster. Also, we have problems with other crimes in the US but nowhere do I hear people talking about "theft culture" or "assault culture".
 
2012-12-04 06:46:58 AM  

Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.


Assuming, of course, that the malice can be proved beyond reasonable doubt like any other crime. That's going to be a very difficult thing to do, but then, rape has not, as a rule, proved to be an easy thing to prosecute either.
 
2012-12-04 06:48:31 AM  

Dracolich: I'm visualizing you being essentially tossed onto a pile of men who are compelled by their penises to achive intercourse and promote rape.


Prison, you mean?

I mean as long as "rape culture" is a thing, let's deal with the men falsely accused thereof, for whom institutionally sanctioned rape is celebrated as a valid result. Now there's "rape culture".
 
2012-12-04 06:50:11 AM  

Millennium: Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.

Assuming, of course, that the malice can be proved beyond reasonable doubt like any other crime. That's going to be a very difficult thing to do, but then, rape has not, as a rule, proved to be an easy thing to prosecute either.


You don't have to always prove malice or intent. It's up to the legislature to specify that when it makes the law

Statutory rape is an example of a crime you don't need to prove malice or intent for a conviction
 
2012-12-04 06:52:06 AM  

fredbox: Dracolich: I'm visualizing you being essentially tossed onto a pile of men who are compelled by their penises to achive intercourse and promote rape.

Prison, you mean?

I mean as long as "rape culture" is a thing, let's deal with the men falsely accused thereof, for whom institutionally sanctioned rape is celebrated as a valid result. Now there's "rape culture".


What I find interesting is the lack of law enforcement in the prison itself. It seems self-defeating if the point is behavior correction.
 
2012-12-04 06:52:37 AM  

fredbox: I mean as long as "rape culture" is a thing, let's deal with the men falsely accused thereof, for whom institutionally sanctioned rape is celebrated as a valid result. Now there's "rape culture".


Pretty much this. If there is a "rape culture" in the US, it is based in the expectation that people incarcerated in our prison system get a healthy helping of rape to go along with their sentence.
 
2012-12-04 06:53:09 AM  

fredbox: Prison, you mean?

I mean as long as "rape culture" is a thing, let's deal with the men falsely accused thereof, for whom institutionally sanctioned rape is celebrated as a valid result. Now there's "rape culture".


This. That is a case where people getting raped is perceived as not only acceptable and normal, but even irreverently comical. That is an instance where the phrase "rape culture" is applicable.
 
2012-12-04 06:56:39 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Show me anywhere in the US where rape is not a crime. The total number of rapes has been steadily declining and the rapes per 100K persons has been dropping even faster.


Yeah. About that. 50-90% of Rapes in the United States go Unreported. RAINN reports that 54% of all rapes against women go unreported, and only 3 in 97 rapists will ever see a day in prison.

One in five women, and one in 71 men will be raped in their lifetime.

The military is much worse. Women are actively punished for reporting rapes to their commanding officers, and in turn, COs are encouraged to handle rapes at a unit level to prevent embarrassment.

Women are encouraged not to report rape. They're the ones at fault, not the people who raped them. And then you have idiots like this, who use rape accusations to destroy the lives of men, and suffer relatively no consequences in return.

Ever been the victim of a false rape allegation?

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Also, we have problems with other crimes in the US but nowhere do I hear people talking about "theft culture" or "assault culture".


You're actually going to set here, with a straight face, and tell me that rape culture doesn't exist in the United States? Kinda like how if women are legitimately raped, they have ways of shutting their bodies down so they really don't get pregnant. Or how they were slutty and just asking for it, and should have never been out there in the first place?
 
2012-12-04 06:56:59 AM  
Shoulda rubbed one off and went about his business.
 
2012-12-04 07:02:37 AM  

ks1415: I'm impressed at the focus on what's important in here: Everything is women's fault. Rape culture occurs because of false rape accusations, preventing false rape accusations is more important than allowing rape victims to come forward, people like this complicate the definition rape and consequently make rapists more sympathetic (though anyone who suggests there's male-driven rape culture is just wrong because we all totally know rape is bad)...just really impressive.

Exception Collection is my hero for the night. Everyone else can fark off back to reddit. One forum full of rape apologists was enough, thank you very much.


"Anyone who doesn't think exactly like I tell them to is a pro-rape misogynist, also men are all inherently rapists"
I was raised to be sympathetic to women's rights, but the more feminists say things like this and cast insults at my entire gender the less I give a shiat what they have to say.
 
2012-12-04 07:03:33 AM  
u don't want sex women? fine we won't have sex with u anymore
 
2012-12-04 07:09:02 AM  

Bathia_Mapes: but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.


You're assuming that admitting that she lied would make a difference. Many people assume that if you're accused of something, that means you did something.
 
2012-12-04 07:09:18 AM  

Moonlightfox:
I was raised to be sympathetic to women's rights, but the more feminists say things like this and cast insults at my entire gender the less I give a shiat what they have to say.


I think the "rape culture" rhetoric goes beyond feminism and into either female separatism or female supremacism. I don't claim we live in theft culture because most cops are too lazy to investigate property crimes, but there's certainly a metric hell of a lot more theft than rape. Plenty of non-sexual physical assault out there too.
 
2012-12-04 07:12:09 AM  
My ex did a bunch of false accusations... none stuck, she admitted to lying in court.

Her consequences? pretty much nothing... the worse, judge assigned her to take therapy, which she stopped after a few sessions.

But eventually, after I left her, she was confirmed as paranoid schizophrenic, but that didn't stop her from attempting all the "bad" accusations to get back at me for leaving her.. again, the only consequence, she lost the kid's custody to me, and later on, lost all her visitation rights.

Karma... gotta respect it.
 
2012-12-04 07:13:32 AM  

fredbox: Dracolich: I'm visualizing you being essentially tossed onto a pile of men who are compelled by their penises to achive intercourse and promote rape.

Prison, you mean?

I mean as long as "rape culture" is a thing, let's deal with the men falsely accused thereof, for whom institutionally sanctioned rape is celebrated as a valid result. Now there's "rape culture".


So, just out of curiousity, how many posts so far do you have in this one thread decrying how rough it is for guys and how heinous this biatch is, and how 'rape culture isn't a thing'? And if the news bothers to cover an actual rape case, exactly how many times do you bother commenting then? Once? At all?
 
2012-12-04 07:13:32 AM  

BronyMedic: You're actually going to set here, with a straight face, and tell me that rape culture doesn't exist in the United States?


Yes, I am.

Rape is an egregious crime and one that we are working, as a culture, to stamp out. And we're making progress. For you to come in and claim that despite a 15% reduction in rapes per 100K persons we still, as a culture, condone rape is laughable.

I'm not saying that rape isn't a crime or that it isn't a problem or that the frequency with which it occurs is acceptable. I'm saying that your assertion that there is this vast cultural conspiracy to turn a blind eye to the problem is ridiculous on its face.

BronyMedic: Women are encouraged not to report rape. They're the ones at fault, not the people who raped them. And then you have idiots like this, who use rape accusations to destroy the lives of men, and suffer relatively no consequences in return.


Women threatening to accuse men of rape is not as rare as you might think. I've had two women in my life "jokingly" tell me that it was their trump card if they didn't get what they wanted.
 
2012-12-04 07:14:32 AM  

Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.


This. I know of a woman who did this, with the ultimate result of the man committing suicide when after admitting (to police) that she had been lying, she threatened to do it again. Had there been some sort of punishment or rehabilitation for her, she may not have had the opportunity to make that threat.
 
2012-12-04 07:14:45 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: fredbox: Dracolich: I'm visualizing you being essentially tossed onto a pile of men who are compelled by their penises to achive intercourse and promote rape.

Prison, you mean?

I mean as long as "rape culture" is a thing, let's deal with the men falsely accused thereof, for whom institutionally sanctioned rape is celebrated as a valid result. Now there's "rape culture".

So, just out of curiousity, how many posts so far do you have in this one thread decrying how rough it is for guys and how heinous this biatch is, and how 'rape culture isn't a thing'? And if the news bothers to cover an actual rape case, exactly how many times do you bother commenting then? Once? At all?


You have my handle and Google. I expect a full report in the morning.
 
2012-12-04 07:14:57 AM  

ks1415: It's like shark attacks; it happens, and it's horrible when it does, but it's rare enough that protecting against it should really be done with a decent sense of perspective.


well, shark attacks are less likely to happen to you than dog attacks or cow attacks... IF you swim or dive in shark-teritory.
False rape accusations... I realy have no idea.
If you believe extremist feminist, it never happens.
If you bellieve extremist mens-right activist, it is realy common.

one thing is for sure: rapist don't wory about false acusation, they know they have to plan ahead.
 
2012-12-04 07:16:49 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: So, just out of curiousity, how many posts so far do you have in this one thread decrying how rough it is for guys and how heinous this biatch is, and how 'rape culture isn't a thing'? And if the news bothers to cover an actual rape case, exactly how many times do you bother commenting then? Once? At all?


Ah yes, I'm not sufficiently vocal in decrying rape so I must support it. Quick, everyone shout as loud as you can about how much you hate rape culture in the US because the person who shouts the least supports it.
 
2012-12-04 07:16:49 AM  

Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.


stop making sense... this throws my whole universe upside down...
 
2012-12-04 07:18:20 AM  

Moonlightfox: "Anyone who doesn't think exactly like I tell them to is a pro-rape misogynist, also men are all inherently rapists"
I was raised to be sympathetic to women's rights, but the more feminists say things like this and cast insults at my entire gender the less I give a shiat what they have to say.


I don't think anyone in this thread said that. I damned well know I didn't. But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape. As referenced above, a girl that sleeps around is considered a slut; a slut can't be raped, right? Or what if they made certain decisions about the activities involved, and the guy decides "screw that, I want anal"?

We have a culture that supports rape jokes. We have a culture that treats victims like sluts. We have a culture that inhibits reporting. We have a culture in which the federal government exempting military contractors from civil suits regarding rapes they did nothing to prevent is considered acceptable. We have a culture that makes it the women's problem for wearing "slutty" clothing, not the man's.

We have a rape culture.

---

As for the mention of assault, or of murder - No, I'd count those as "violent" culture. Rape is in a special little corner, though, because it's not just about injuring the victim - it's about destroying them.
 
2012-12-04 07:20:32 AM  

Exception Collection:

As for the mention of assault, or of murder - No, I'd count those as "violent" culture. Rape is in a special little corner, though, because it's not just about injuring the victim - it's about destroying them.


Well, let me take a poll of rape victims, and a poll of murder victims, and find out how destroyed they respectively feel.
 
2012-12-04 07:21:16 AM  
They could have at least done this poor man the courtesy of blurring her image on TV. Yeesh...
 
2012-12-04 07:23:12 AM  

fredbox: Well, let me take a poll of rape victims, and a poll of murder victims, and find out how destroyed they respectively feel.


The thing about this is, murder just destroys them once. Rape destroys them (for a while at least) every time a man touches them - every time they are alone - every time they remember what happened.
 
2012-12-04 07:23:43 AM  

ks1415: Exception Collection: And the issue of false accusations is a very real issue

Oh, I know. It's just occasionally made a priority in a way that potentially harms other causes. It's like shark attacks; it happens, and it's horrible when it does, but it's rare enough that protecting against it should really be done with a decent sense of perspective.


The problem is that people who try to make it seem like rape is a made-up issue love grabbing onto anecdotes like these and holding them up as the norm rather than the exception. Personal stories inevitably stick in people's minds much more than numbers and statistics do. I guarantee that this case will come up in the minds of many women who are raped in the next few months, and they will decide not to report it because they don't want someone to accuse them of making it up. It will also be discussed in many police departments across the country over the next few months, and they will decide not to pursue investigations or charges in many cases because they think the women are making it up. This woman's ludicrous actions will end up harming many victims of domestic abuse.
 
2012-12-04 07:24:14 AM  

Warlordtrooper: Millennium: Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.

Assuming, of course, that the malice can be proved beyond reasonable doubt like any other crime. That's going to be a very difficult thing to do, but then, rape has not, as a rule, proved to be an easy thing to prosecute either.

You don't have to always prove malice or intent. It's up to the legislature to specify that when it makes the law

Statutory rape is an example of a crime you don't need to prove malice or intent for a conviction


But in this particular case, malice is what would make the crime. Cases of simple mistaken identity should obviously not be punished, for example. Much like rape itself, states of mind are more important to the definition than the crime itself: the same acts can be rape or not rape, depending solely on whether or not all parties to those acts are willing. In the same way, false accusation could be criminal or not criminal, depending solely on whether or not the accuser is acting maliciously.

Or, to put it another way, failure to convict for rape should not be prima facie evidence of malicious accusation.
 
2012-12-04 07:24:14 AM  

Exception Collection: But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape.


That's an iceberg sized assertion you have there. I'm certain you have some sort of documentation to back that up.

Exception Collection: We have a culture that supports rape jokes


Really? I can't remember the last time I heard a good rape joke. Care to share one?
 
2012-12-04 07:24:32 AM  

BronyMedic: Yeah. About that. 50-90% of Rapes in the United States go Unreported. RAINN reports that 54% of all rapes against women go unreported, and only 3 in 97 rapists will ever see a day in prison.


Yeah, about your link.

RAINN claims "5 in 100 rapists are convicted", and cite a study (warning, PDF) that states very clearly (p. 11) that 62% of rapists are convicted. (They claim an average from 2002-2006; 2002 is 67 percent, for instance.)

You may apologize for citing blatant fearmongering at any time -- I know you won't, though.
 
2012-12-04 07:25:54 AM  

Serious Black: The problem is that people who try to make it seem like rape is a made-up issue love grabbing onto anecdotes like these and holding them up as the norm rather than the exception


I don't see anyone claiming that rape is a made up issue. What I see is people taking issue with the vague and unsubstantiated claims that we live in a pro-rape culture despite all the evidence to the contrary.
 
2012-12-04 07:26:03 AM  

ks1415: Exception Collection: And the issue of false accusations is a very real issue

Oh, I know. It's just occasionally made a priority in a way that potentially harms other causes. It's like shark attacks; it happens, and it's horrible when it does, but it's rare enough that protecting against it should really be done with a decent sense of perspective.


According to the FBI, it happens about 8% of the time: not a majority, or even a large plurality, but not enough to be called "rare."
 
2012-12-04 07:27:39 AM  

Exception Collection: ks1415: Exception Collection is my hero for the night. Everyone else can fark off back to reddit. One forum full of rape apologists was enough, thank you very much.

Heh. Rape and consent issues are of huge importance to me - not because I've been raped (though with my luck I expect that to happen one day), but because others have. And the issue of false accusations is a very real issue; a friend of mine is writing back and forth to an old friend she wants to start dating - but can't, because he (supposedly, I don't know all the facts) was thrown in prison on nothing more than three "eyewitnesses" and a "bad" alibi. (The alibi was by the the current girlfriend, aka the victim's mother; supposedly her (adult) daughter had propositioned him and was turned down, so she and some friends that disliked him perjured themselves. That's what my friend says, at least. I'm not sure what to believe.)

Consent is critical to any relationship.


it's going to get to the point that men are going to have to require a legal document "Consent for Sexual Activity" signed in triplicate and notarized before they are going to take the risk just for CYA purposes.
 
2012-12-04 07:28:36 AM  

Nogale: I want to strangle women who do this. Rape is a real problem; making false accusations trivializes the issue and makes it harder for women who have been raped.


The thing that pisses me off is that if there ARE stiff penalties for women who file false reports, it might prevent women who are actually raped from coming forwards. This is about the no-winningest situation of all the no-win situations ever.
 
2012-12-04 07:29:00 AM  
Uh, how could anyone possibly know how many rapes are unreported? That doesn't make any logical sense at all.
 
2012-12-04 07:30:02 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Exception Collection: We have a culture that supports rape jokes

Really? I can't remember the last time I heard a good rape joke. Care to share one?


A black guy, a basketball player and a rapist walk into a bar. The bartender says "Hi, Kobe!" 

/thats all i got
 
2012-12-04 07:30:03 AM  

Exception Collection:
The thing about this is, murder just destroys them once.


If I close my eyes, the room will be empty.
 
2012-12-04 07:30:16 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Exception Collection: ks1415: Exception Collection is my hero for the night. Everyone else can fark off back to reddit. One forum full of rape apologists was enough, thank you very much.

Heh. Rape and consent issues are of huge importance to me - not because I've been raped (though with my luck I expect that to happen one day), but because others have. And the issue of false accusations is a very real issue; a friend of mine is writing back and forth to an old friend she wants to start dating - but can't, because he (supposedly, I don't know all the facts) was thrown in prison on nothing more than three "eyewitnesses" and a "bad" alibi. (The alibi was by the the current girlfriend, aka the victim's mother; supposedly her (adult) daughter had propositioned him and was turned down, so she and some friends that disliked him perjured themselves. That's what my friend says, at least. I'm not sure what to believe.)

Consent is critical to any relationship.

it's going to get to the point that men are going to have to require a legal document "Consent for Sexual Activity" signed in triplicate and notarized before they are going to take the risk just for CYA purposes.


Didn't "Amazon Women on the Moon" address this very point? Or was it "Kentucky Fried Movie"?
 
2012-12-04 07:31:51 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Serious Black: The problem is that people who try to make it seem like rape is a made-up issue love grabbing onto anecdotes like these and holding them up as the norm rather than the exception

I don't see anyone claiming that rape is a made up issue. What I see is people taking issue with the vague and unsubstantiated claims that we live in a pro-rape culture despite all the evidence to the contrary.


I was referring to people like Todd Akin who think there are different categories of rape. Sadly, there are a lot of people who think he is 100% right. I know a number of them...they think that a woman going out to a bar wearing a revealing outfit and having a couple of beers was asking for it.
 
2012-12-04 07:32:05 AM  
Exception Collection:
I don't think anyone in this thread said that. I damned well know I didn't. But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape. As referenced above, a girl that sleeps around is considered a slut; a slut can't be raped, right? Or what if they made certain decisions about the activities involved, and the guy decides "screw that, I want anal"?

I've never followed the double standard you mention, I've never looked down on someone for their decisions about their sexuality. I have never done anything like that with a woman without discussing it and making sure it was okay. And I've taken no for an answer. But I guess that doesn't matter because "hurr rape culture." You are stereotyping me as a degenerate neanderthal rapist because I'm male. You're a cancer on society.
 
2012-12-04 07:32:10 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: it's going to get to the point that men are going to have to require a legal document "Consent for Sexual Activity" signed in triplicate and notarized before they are going to take the risk just for CYA purposes.


That wouldn't be enough anyway, because you have to preserve the right to change one's mind at literally any moment (other, of course, than retroactively).

This is what makes rape so hard to prosecute: you essentially have to prove all parties' state of mind at every relevant moment, because those mind-states are what make it rape or not. It's easy to establish reasonable doubt under circumstances like that, and no one has found a better solution. Sometimes I wonder if a better solution even exists.
 
2012-12-04 07:33:44 AM  

Dokushin: BronyMedic: Yeah. About that. 50-90% of Rapes in the United States go Unreported. RAINN reports that 54% of all rapes against women go unreported, and only 3 in 97 rapists will ever see a day in prison.

Yeah, about your link.

RAINN claims "5 in 100 rapists are convicted", and cite a study (warning, PDF) that states very clearly (p. 11) that 62% of rapists are convicted. (They claim an average from 2002-2006; 2002 is 67 percent, for instance.)

You may apologize for citing blatant fearmongering at any time -- I know you won't, though.


I suppose it depends on how you define "convicted". The report says 69 are prosecuted, but of those 65 plead guilty and the remaining 4 go to trial, with 3 convictions. Which I'll admit is better than I thought based on the RAINN information, but still rather less than ideal.

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Really? I can't remember the last time I heard a good rape joke. Care to share one?


Too tired to remember one right now... just crossed the 24 hours awake mark. But I see them all the time in a few places.
 
2012-12-04 07:34:27 AM  

Serious Black: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Serious Black: The problem is that people who try to make it seem like rape is a made-up issue love grabbing onto anecdotes like these and holding them up as the norm rather than the exception

I don't see anyone claiming that rape is a made up issue. What I see is people taking issue with the vague and unsubstantiated claims that we live in a pro-rape culture despite all the evidence to the contrary.

I was referring to people like Todd Akin who think there are different categories of rape. Sadly, there are a lot of people who think he is 100% right. I know a number of them...they think that a woman going out to a bar wearing a revealing outfit and having a couple of beers was asking for it.


If someone leaves their car keys in the ignition and the doors unlocked, are they at all culpable in the event their car is stolen? Certainly, the person who steals it is committing a crime either way. That's not in question. Just whether the responsibility is the thief's alone.
 
2012-12-04 07:35:35 AM  

Nogale: I want to strangle women who do this. Rape is a real problem; making false accusations trivializes the issue and makes it harder for women who have been raped.


So many responses like this in this thread. "False accusations of rape are bad because they make it harder for legitimate victims of rape."

Well yeah, but what about the innocent men who are falsely accused? Pretty sure it makes it pretty hard for them as well. Especially when they are fired from their jobs, prosecuted, thrown in prison, and placed on a sex offenders registry and ostracized from society. Their lives are ruined as completely as any rape victim. But I guess the victims of these cases don't matter nearly as much as victims in unrelated cases.
 
2012-12-04 07:36:03 AM  

Dracolich: fredbox: Dracolich: fredbox: Not all men promote or condone rape. Not all men are compelled by their penises to achieve intercourse at any possible cost. Stop lumping me in with them.

Interesting choice of words

How's that?

"Lumping something in" is based on a physical process. It's used as verbal imagery. So, in this case, I'm visualizing you being essentially tossed onto a pile of men who are compelled by their penises to achive intercourse and promote rape. Use your imagination at this point for all of the details. Then, over that image there's one of those old red circle with a line through it "no" signs.


That made me think of Caligula (the film).
 
2012-12-04 07:38:55 AM  

Doc Daneeka: [men falsely accused of rape] lives are ruined as completely as any rape victim. But I guess the victims of these cases don't matter nearly as much as victims in unrelated cases.


The difference is they're supposed to man up and get over it.
 
2012-12-04 07:40:02 AM  

Exception Collection: I suppose it depends on how you define "convicted". The report says 69 are prosecuted, but of those 65 plead guilty and the remaining 4 go to trial, with 3 convictions. Which I'll admit is better than I thought based on the RAINN information, but still rather less than ideal.


What would you consider to be ideal?
 
2012-12-04 07:40:06 AM  

BronyMedic: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Show me anywhere in the US where rape is not a crime. The total number of rapes has been steadily declining and the rapes per 100K persons has been dropping even faster.

Yeah. About that. 50-90% of Rapes in the United States go Unreported. RAINN reports that 54% of all rapes against women go unreported, and only 3 in 97 rapists will ever see a day in prison.

One in five women, and one in 71 men will be raped in their lifetime.

The military is much worse. Women are actively punished for reporting rapes to their commanding officers, and in turn, COs are encouraged to handle rapes at a unit level to prevent embarrassment.

Women are encouraged not to report rape. They're the ones at fault, not the people who raped them. And then you have idiots like this, who use rape accusations to destroy the lives of men, and suffer relatively no consequences in return.

Ever been the victim of a false rape allegation?

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Also, we have problems with other crimes in the US but nowhere do I hear people talking about "theft culture" or "assault culture".

You're actually going to set here, with a straight face, and tell me that rape culture doesn't exist in the United States? Kinda like how if women are legitimately raped, they have ways of shutting their bodies down so they really don't get pregnant. Or how they were slutty and just asking for it, and should have never been out there in the first place?


sounds like with a range like that we should be seeing people randomly raped as they walk down the street... they must have gotten those numbers from the pull-it-from-my-ass department.

/93.821% of all statistics are made up and only 10% of those were legitimately researched.
 
2012-12-04 07:40:28 AM  

Exception Collection: fredbox: Well, let me take a poll of rape victims, and a poll of murder victims, and find out how destroyed they respectively feel.

The thing about this is, murder just destroys them once. Rape destroys them (for a while at least) every time a man touches them - every time they are alone - every time they remember what happened.


Well, my girlfriend was raped long time ago, and she has issues, but she is a hell lot better as if she had been murdered.
Murderers, true or falsely acusated, still get more respect as falsely acusated rapist.
 
2012-12-04 07:42:08 AM  
I don't know why you guys are being so tough on her!
I feel sorry for her, because now she will get a SEVERE slap on the wrist and an EXTREME telling-to.

/the system is trash
 
2012-12-04 07:42:52 AM  

untaken_name: HindiDiscoMonster: Exception Collection: ks1415: Exception Collection is my hero for the night. Everyone else can fark off back to reddit. One forum full of rape apologists was enough, thank you very much.

Heh. Rape and consent issues are of huge importance to me - not because I've been raped (though with my luck I expect that to happen one day), but because others have. And the issue of false accusations is a very real issue; a friend of mine is writing back and forth to an old friend she wants to start dating - but can't, because he (supposedly, I don't know all the facts) was thrown in prison on nothing more than three "eyewitnesses" and a "bad" alibi. (The alibi was by the the current girlfriend, aka the victim's mother; supposedly her (adult) daughter had propositioned him and was turned down, so she and some friends that disliked him perjured themselves. That's what my friend says, at least. I'm not sure what to believe.)

Consent is critical to any relationship.

it's going to get to the point that men are going to have to require a legal document "Consent for Sexual Activity" signed in triplicate and notarized before they are going to take the risk just for CYA purposes.

Didn't "Amazon Women on the Moon" address this very point? Or was it "Kentucky Fried Movie"?


"Cherry 2000" has a scene where people bring their lawyers to a singles bar to draw up contracts for consensual sex. Not sure about those two.
 
2012-12-04 07:42:58 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Nogale: I want to strangle women who do this. Rape is a real problem; making false accusations trivializes the issue and makes it harder for women who have been raped.

So many responses like this in this thread. "False accusations of rape are bad because they make it harder for legitimate victims of rape."

Well yeah, but what about the innocent men who are falsely accused? Pretty sure it makes it pretty hard for them as well. Especially when they are fired from their jobs, prosecuted, thrown in prison, and placed on a sex offenders registry and ostracized from society. Their lives are ruined as completely as any rape victim. But I guess the victims of these cases don't matter nearly as much as victims in unrelated cases.


Unless my knowledge of Fark's demographics is wildly incorrect, most of the people making the above comment in this thread are male. I can confirm with 100% certainty that at least one of them is.
 
2012-12-04 07:44:13 AM  

A Terrible Human: Awww ain't it cute that both Reddit and Fark are full of misogynists and bronies. :D


Awww ain't it cute that rational discourse regarding this particular social problem is impossible.
 
2012-12-04 07:44:35 AM  
People who make false accusations of criminal behavior should face the exact same sentence that the falsely accused would have face. To be honest this guy is lucky the police filed a false police report charge against the woman.

My crazy ex tried to file false charges against me multiple times through different agencies as a divorce 'tactic'. Luckily for me the police found her so lacking in credibility they never even bothered me to come down for questioning.

What more than one agency did tell me though was to record every interaction with her. I didn't have two months go by between the time I was given that advice and the time a recording kept me out of jail. Even though I had the recording showing clearly showing the accusations were false I still couldn't get law enforcement to charge her with filing a false report.

/all of which is made the worse because crap like this cheapens reals rape victims.
 
2012-12-04 07:44:45 AM  

Serious Black: I was referring to people like Todd Akin who think there are different categories of rape. Sadly, there are a lot of people who think he is 100% right. I know a number of them...they think that a woman going out to a bar wearing a revealing outfit and having a couple of beers was asking for it.


Yeah, it sucks that there are some men who minimize issues like rape in the US, just as it sucks that there are women who are all to willing to use accusations of rape or the threat of those accusations as a weapon.

Here's the thing, not all men are rapists; in fact, very few of them are. Similarly, not all women use the accusation of rape or its threat as a weapon; but some of them do and that number is probably higher than the opponents of "rape culture" would like to admit. In my own dating history it's running at about 10% who make joking comments about crying rape if they don't get what they want.

I've never stuck my dick in anyone who didn't either verbally ask for it or pull it out and do it themselves but I've been repeatedly denigrated as a potential rapist since I have a dick or told that I'm a supporter of rape culture because I'm not the loudest in the two minutes hate. Honestly, I'm getting pretty farking sick of it.
 
2012-12-04 07:46:24 AM  

signaljammer: Well, this man has been accused of things twice. Once was rape. The other was poor sexual performance. He should be able to put contrary testimony on the local news.


Well, really, she has no credibility. He is probably pretty good.
 
2012-12-04 07:46:33 AM  

Apos: *scans headline*

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x281]
"So....This is *truly* illegitimate this time?"


Yes. This is the opposite of what Akin meant by "Legitimate Rape". Unfortunately for him, and fortunately, for the rest of us, he not only chose to phrase it the way that he did, which made what he was saying far, far, far more terrible than what he actually meant, -but- that he also added on his bizarre belief in the "shutting that thing down", which just proved that not only does he have no idea how to eloquently speak what he means, he also is a farking idiot.
 
2012-12-04 07:46:37 AM  
Good lord, some of you need to clean the centipedes out of your vaginas. She recanted. She admitted she lied. She did the right thing. No harm, no foul. So calm the fake out rage down to about a 4 or 5,
 
2012-12-04 07:46:48 AM  

untaken_name: HindiDiscoMonster: Exception Collection: ks1415: Exception Collection is my hero for the night. Everyone else can fark off back to reddit. One forum full of rape apologists was enough, thank you very much.

Heh. Rape and consent issues are of huge importance to me - not because I've been raped (though with my luck I expect that to happen one day), but because others have. And the issue of false accusations is a very real issue; a friend of mine is writing back and forth to an old friend she wants to start dating - but can't, because he (supposedly, I don't know all the facts) was thrown in prison on nothing more than three "eyewitnesses" and a "bad" alibi. (The alibi was by the the current girlfriend, aka the victim's mother; supposedly her (adult) daughter had propositioned him and was turned down, so she and some friends that disliked him perjured themselves. That's what my friend says, at least. I'm not sure what to believe.)

Consent is critical to any relationship.

it's going to get to the point that men are going to have to require a legal document "Consent for Sexual Activity" signed in triplicate and notarized before they are going to take the risk just for CYA purposes.

Didn't "Amazon Women on the Moon" address this very point? Or was it "Kentucky Fried Movie"?


damn... I thought it was just a good idea... I haven't seen either of those. I guess I have to now.
 
2012-12-04 07:47:53 AM  

Moonlightfox: I've never followed the double standard you mention, I've never looked down on someone for their decisions about their sexuality. I have never done anything like that with a woman without discussing it and making sure it was okay. And I've taken no for an answer. But I guess that doesn't matter because "hurr rape culture." You are stereotyping me as a degenerate neanderthal rapist because I'm male. You're a cancer on society.


Actually, I'm not. I never stated that all men are rapists; you made that leap all by yourself. I do my best not to prejudge anyone. I'm not picking at *you* for supporting a rape culture; I'm picking at the culture for supporting rape. Individuals can (and usually will) be better than the average.

Dokushin: What would you consider to be ideal?


Ideal? 100% conviction of the guilty, 100% release of the innocent, 100% punishment of those that deliberately destroy the lives of others.

On-Off: Well, my girlfriend was raped long time ago, and she has issues, but she is a hell lot better as if she had been murdered.
Murderers, true or falsely acusated, still get more respect as falsely acusated rapist.


True. And I'm not saying that murder is better by any means; just different.

/I'm aware of what our culture - American culture - is like. I don't know how to fix it, but I won't hide under a pillow and ignore it until it goes away.
//Halloween before last, I was at a bar with friends. Several people groped me throughout the night. I'll admit that I was wearing clothing that was a little more risque than I usually do in public - I usually lean towards the "Wouldn't be out of place at a church" side of things - but the fact that I was wearing leggings and a skirt wasn't an invitation to pat my ass. When I complained about it to one of the people that patted me, he said "Well then why'd you wear that?" - as though it was MY fault... and that was my introduction to rape culture.
///Oddly enough nobody ever tried that before I transitioned. Well, except for my wife.
 
2012-12-04 07:48:33 AM  

Millennium: HindiDiscoMonster: it's going to get to the point that men are going to have to require a legal document "Consent for Sexual Activity" signed in triplicate and notarized before they are going to take the risk just for CYA purposes.

That wouldn't be enough anyway, because you have to preserve the right to change one's mind at literally any moment (other, of course, than retroactively).

This is what makes rape so hard to prosecute: you essentially have to prove all parties' state of mind at every relevant moment, because those mind-states are what make it rape or not. It's easy to establish reasonable doubt under circumstances like that, and no one has found a better solution. Sometimes I wonder if a better solution even exists.


also require that the act is filmed... if no accusation is forthcoming, it gets deleted (unless of course you are into voyeurism).
 
2012-12-04 07:49:25 AM  

untaken_name: Uh, how could anyone possibly know how many rapes are unreported? That doesn't make any logical sense at all.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Crime_Victimization_Survey
 
2012-12-04 07:49:52 AM  

MrHappyRotter: Good lord, some of you need to clean the centipedes out of your vaginas. She recanted. She admitted she lied. She did the right thing. No harm, no foul. So calm the fake out rage down to about a 4 or 5,


It's not a fake rage. Lying about this is just plain unacceptable.
 
2012-12-04 07:50:37 AM  

Exception Collection: I don't think anyone in this thread said that. I damned well know I didn't. But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape. As referenced above, a girl that sleeps around is considered a slut; a slut can't be raped, right? Or what if they made certain decisions about the activities involved, and the guy decides "screw that, I want anal"?


?
 
2012-12-04 07:52:22 AM  

Serious Black: Doc Daneeka: Nogale: I want to strangle women who do this. Rape is a real problem; making false accusations trivializes the issue and makes it harder for women who have been raped.

So many responses like this in this thread. "False accusations of rape are bad because they make it harder for legitimate victims of rape."

Well yeah, but what about the innocent men who are falsely accused? Pretty sure it makes it pretty hard for them as well. Especially when they are fired from their jobs, prosecuted, thrown in prison, and placed on a sex offenders registry and ostracized from society. Their lives are ruined as completely as any rape victim. But I guess the victims of these cases don't matter nearly as much as victims in unrelated cases.

Unless my knowledge of Fark's demographics is wildly incorrect, most of the people making the above comment in this thread are male. I can confirm with 100% certainty that at least one of them is.


I'm not saying that point is wrong, just that focusing on it demonstrates an unconcern with the larger and more immediate point.

It's like saying that drunk drivers are bad because they inconvenience all the sober drivers who have to go through police sobriety checkpoints. That may be true, but the more important point is that drunk drivers are bad because they kill people.

Likewise, false accusations of rape may make things a little harder for people in unrelated cases, but the much more important point is that false accusations of rape are bad because they ruin people's lives. I think some people tend to miss the forest for the trees.
 
2012-12-04 07:52:42 AM  
There is still a decent chance she was raped but as time passed more and more denial set in. I've seen it happen before my eyes.
 
2012-12-04 07:53:11 AM  

Millennium: Warlordtrooper: Millennium: Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.

Assuming, of course, that the malice can be proved beyond reasonable doubt like any other crime. That's going to be a very difficult thing to do, but then, rape has not, as a rule, proved to be an easy thing to prosecute either.

You don't have to always prove malice or intent. It's up to the legislature to specify that when it makes the law

Statutory rape is an example of a crime you don't need to prove malice or intent for a conviction

But in this particular case, malice is what would make the crime. Cases of simple mistaken identity should obviously not be punished, for example. Much like rape itself, states of mind are more important to the definition than the crime itself: the same acts can be rape or not rape, depending solely on whether or not all parties to those acts are willing. In the same way, false accusation could be criminal or not criminal, depending solely on whether or not the accuser is acting maliciously.

Or, to put it another way, failure to convict for rape should not be prima facie evidence of malicious accusation.


Of course, as always, no one is suggesting that we move to an hideous Saudi-style system, but certain people love to imply it.

Proving an accusation of rape is difficult; proving that someone has knowingly filed a false rape complaint is nearly impossible. Absent an admission, like a recording or email to the effect of "Yeah, I lied. Got that bastard good, didn't I?", forget it.

So, if you're worried about innocent women getting falsely convicted of knowingly filing false complaints, you must be even more worried about men being falsely convicted of rape.

Rape is a horrible crime. Grasping the state's monopoly on violence and wielding it to falsely imprison a man for ~7 years, destroy his family, have his children taken away, take his job, make him a social pariah and utterly unemployable, and, as a bonus, include the possibility of multiple rapes in prison...

That might be a teensy bit worse.
 
2012-12-04 07:53:17 AM  

Exception Collection: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Really? I can't remember the last time I heard a good rape joke. Care to share one?

Too tired to remember one right now... just crossed the 24 hours awake mark. But I see them all the time in a few places.


So you're saying that they're so prevalent that you can't remember a single farking one even though you hear them all the time. Got it.

You know why I can't remember any? Because I never hear them, other than the Bubba the Jailhouse Rapist variety.
 
2012-12-04 07:53:23 AM  

Exception Collection: MrHappyRotter: Good lord, some of you need to clean the centipedes out of your vaginas. She recanted. She admitted she lied. She did the right thing. No harm, no foul. So calm the fake out rage down to about a 4 or 5,

It's not a fake rage. Lying about this is just plain unacceptable.


I know. It feels "real" to me too.
 
2012-12-04 07:53:32 AM  

liam76: Exception Collection: I don't think anyone in this thread said that. I damned well know I didn't. But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape. As referenced above, a girl that sleeps around is considered a slut; a slut can't be raped, right? Or what if they made certain decisions about the activities involved, and the guy decides "screw that, I want anal"?

?


"Some guy" != "All guys"
 
2012-12-04 07:53:48 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Serious Black: I was referring to people like Todd Akin who think there are different categories of rape. Sadly, there are a lot of people who think he is 100% right. I know a number of them...they think that a woman going out to a bar wearing a revealing outfit and having a couple of beers was asking for it.

Yeah, it sucks that there are some men who minimize issues like rape in the US, just as it sucks that there are women who are all to willing to use accusations of rape or the threat of those accusations as a weapon.

Here's the thing, not all men are rapists; in fact, very few of them are. Similarly, not all women use the accusation of rape or its threat as a weapon; but some of them do and that number is probably higher than the opponents of "rape culture" would like to admit. In my own dating history it's running at about 10% who make joking comments about crying rape if they don't get what they want.

I've never stuck my dick in anyone who didn't either verbally ask for it or pull it out and do it themselves but I've been repeatedly denigrated as a potential rapist since I have a dick or told that I'm a supporter of rape culture because I'm not the loudest in the two minutes hate. Honestly, I'm getting pretty farking sick of it.


Yeah, I agree. Getting called a supporter of rape culture is at least as bad as getting raped.
 
2012-12-04 07:53:52 AM  

MrHappyRotter: Good lord, some of you need to clean the centipedes out of your vaginas. She recanted. She admitted she lied. She did the right thing. No harm, no foul. So calm the fake out rage down to about a 4 or 5,


Does this happen all the time where you come from or something? That woman's actions were ludicrous.
 
2012-12-04 07:55:28 AM  

Rambino: So... why are we believing the woman's second story instead of the first one? Isn't it quite possible that she in fact was raped, but recanted her (true) accusation? It is a fairly well-documented phenomenon that actual victims of legitimate rape sometimes do just that, for any number of reasons.


Because in the United States the defendant is presumed innocent until proven otherwise. Once the only witness to an alleged crime recants her story you get that thing called reasonable doubt which makes it hard to convict someone for committing a crime they likely didn't do. I'm sure your "well-documented" theories of legitimate rape victims recanting true accusations are just swell, but they don't justify locking someone in prison because some women are too bat shiaat crazy to tell the truth and stick by it.
 
2012-12-04 07:55:32 AM  

aagrajag: Millennium: Warlordtrooper: Millennium: Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.

Assuming, of course, that the malice can be proved beyond reasonable doubt like any other crime. That's going to be a very difficult thing to do, but then, rape has not, as a rule, proved to be an easy thing to prosecute either.

You don't have to always prove malice or intent. It's up to the legislature to specify that when it makes the law

Statutory rape is an example of a crime you don't need to prove malice or intent for a conviction

But in this particular case, malice is what would make the crime. Cases of simple mistaken identity should obviously not be punished, for example. Much like rape itself, states of mind are more important to the definition than the crime itself: the same acts can be rape or not rape, depending solely on whether or not all parties to those acts are willing. In the same way, false accusation could be criminal or not criminal, depending solely on whether or not the accuser is acting maliciously.

Or, to put it another way, failure to convict for rape should not be prima facie evidence of malicious accusation.

Of course, as always, no one is suggesting that we move to an hideous Saudi-style system, but certain people love to imply it.

Proving an accusation of rape is difficult; proving that someone has knowingly filed a false rape complaint is nearly impossible. Absent an admission, like a recording or email to the effect of "Yeah, I lied. Got that bastard good, didn't I?", forget it.

So, if you're worried about innocent women getting falsely convicted of knowingly filing false complaints, you must be even more worried about men being falsely convicted of rape.

Rape is a horrible crime. Grasping the state's monopoly on violence and wielding it to falsely imprison a man for ~7 years, destroy his family, have his children taken ...


It's not about the rape knock-knock jokes -- all those image macros, those are jokes too in the colloquial sense. And yes, rape related image macros, when used appropriately are funny. The whole, you said rape twice meme can be funny.
 
2012-12-04 07:55:44 AM  

LostGuy: There is still a decent chance she was raped but as time passed more and more denial set in. I've seen it happen before my eyes.


There is an even greater chance I just won the Powerball.

/I don't play
 
2012-12-04 07:56:32 AM  
The whole world now knows he had sex with her. Isn't that punishment enough?
 
2012-12-04 07:57:46 AM  

sexorcisst: MrHappyRotter: Good lord, some of you need to clean the centipedes out of your vaginas. She recanted. She admitted she lied. She did the right thing. No harm, no foul. So calm the fake out rage down to about a 4 or 5,

Does this happen all the time where you come from or something? That woman's actions were ludicrous.


Doing the right thing and recanting on her rape allegations? Yeah, stuff like that happens all the time around here. People are imperfect and occasionally do things they shouldn't or didn't think were a big deal, but upon retrospection make an attempt to rectify the situation.
 
2012-12-04 07:57:55 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: So you're saying that they're so prevalent that you can't remember a single farking one even though you hear them all the time. Got it.

You know why I can't remember any? Because I never hear them, other than the Bubba the Jailhouse Rapist variety.


... when I'm strung out on caffiene, haven't had any of my nightly medicines, and have been awake for 25 hours and at work for 21.5 hours? Nope, my memory's shot. What I can tell you is that the jokes are common on Fetlife (a social networking site for those of us that are kinky). They're common in locker rooms (Unless boys have changed in the last 15 years or so). They're common in comments about news regarding rape, like the "legitimate rape" threads.

/I should get back to work... deadline approaching in T minus 7 hours.
 
2012-12-04 07:58:46 AM  

Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.


In fairness, if he was having consensual sex with that, prison might have been a step up for him.

Rambino: So... why are we believing the woman's second story instead of the first one? Isn't it quite possible that she in fact was raped, but recanted her (true) accusation? It is a fairly well-documented phenomenon that actual victims of legitimate rape sometimes do just that, for any number of reasons.


Complete lack of evidence?
 
2012-12-04 07:59:26 AM  
Now anyone can rape this chick because no one will believe her story. Uh oh.
 
2012-12-04 07:59:37 AM  

Serious Black: Yeah, I agree. Getting called a supporter of rape culture is at least as bad as getting raped.


You see, this is the bullshiat argumentation I'm talking about. I've done nothing in this thread but condemn the crime of rape and to question the assertion that we live in a culture that condones and promotes it. And here you are twisting my words to imply that I've said that my annoyance at being called a supporter of rape culture is as bad as being raped.

What the fark is wrong with you?
 
2012-12-04 07:59:49 AM  

MrHappyRotter: aagrajag: Millennium: Warlordtrooper: Millennium: Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.

Assuming, of course, that the malice can be proved beyond reasonable doubt like any other crime. That's going to be a very difficult thing to do, but then, rape has not, as a rule, proved to be an easy thing to prosecute either.

You don't have to always prove malice or intent. It's up to the legislature to specify that when it makes the law

Statutory rape is an example of a crime you don't need to prove malice or intent for a conviction

But in this particular case, malice is what would make the crime. Cases of simple mistaken identity should obviously not be punished, for example. Much like rape itself, states of mind are more important to the definition than the crime itself: the same acts can be rape or not rape, depending solely on whether or not all parties to those acts are willing. In the same way, false accusation could be criminal or not criminal, depending solely on whether or not the accuser is acting maliciously.

Or, to put it another way, failure to convict for rape should not be prima facie evidence of malicious accusation.

Of course, as always, no one is suggesting that we move to an hideous Saudi-style system, but certain people love to imply it.

Proving an accusation of rape is difficult; proving that someone has knowingly filed a false rape complaint is nearly impossible. Absent an admission, like a recording or email to the effect of "Yeah, I lied. Got that bastard good, didn't I?", forget it.

So, if you're worried about innocent women getting falsely convicted of knowingly filing false complaints, you must be even more worried about men being falsely convicted of rape.

Rape is a horrible crime. Grasping the state's monopoly on violence and wielding it to falsely imprison a man for ~7 years, destroy his family, have his child ...


Are you replying to the wrong person? Your post doesn't seem to have much to do with mine.
 
2012-12-04 08:00:07 AM  
Oh my god, how can I possibly be the only one sensitive and enlightened enough to feel uncomfortable talking about rape? Look at all of you talking about rape- they're right, it's a Rape Culture. Hey, ladies- for the record, I oppose rape. It's just too rapey for me. I only like consensual sex wherein I go down for 30 minutes so you can finish thinking about your bills, finally get aroused, and sort of enjoy it. And then I go into the restroom and ejaculate in the toilet as god intended. I enjoy long walks on the beach and white knighting in threads.

Look, rape culture is real but if anyone can't tell within 5 minutes which meat-headed idiots think of a woman as an object and which ones are intelligent and rational people, I don't know how to correct that. It's silly to call someone out for supporting rape culture simply because he pointed out that while not every man is of high character, not every woman is either. Some are opportunistic scumbags exactly like the rapists themselves. They have different motives, but the same complete lack of interest in the consequences of their actions exists. We can start solving social problems as soon as we stop deifying one gender and demonizing the other. We all pretty much suck a bit.
 
2012-12-04 08:00:33 AM  

Exception Collection: Rape culture still exists


No, it doesn't.

Guys don't stand around in groups talking about, making plans for, or wistfully remembering women they've raped. There is no "rape culture", unless you stretch the definition of "culture" beyond all reasonable bounds. There is also a problem with the definition of rape, too: As this case shows, at least some percentage of rape cases aren't really rape at all. We don't know how big that percentage is or how small because it's hard to measure: We know roughly how many cases end up like this, consensus seems to be somewhere between 2% and 8% of all rape allegations, but we don't know how many aren't caught by the police and the accused gets convicted based on false allegations: That number has to be non-zero.

Of course, there are also cases where actual rapes aren't reported when they should be, but that is a separate issue.

Anyway, as I said, there is no rape culture. And if you posit that there is one, then you must admit that there is then a false rape culture.

Rape is wrong, but so is lying about it.
 
2012-12-04 08:00:49 AM  

Exception Collection: liam76: Exception Collection: I don't think anyone in this thread said that. I damned well know I didn't. But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape. As referenced above, a girl that sleeps around is considered a slut; a slut can't be raped, right? Or what if they made certain decisions about the activities involved, and the guy decides "screw that, I want anal"?

?

"Some guy" != "All guys"


I get that, but you were blasting him for bringing up things nobody in this thread said, then you turn around and use "a slut can't be raped" and "screw that, I want anal" line, which nobody said.
 
2012-12-04 08:00:58 AM  

voodoolady: E5bie: Or that some not-agreed-to act occurred, and she didn't understand that going to a hotel room means you get the package deal, whatever he wants?

Um....what?


Right. That's when the nice police officer says, "No, sweetie, rape is when the man uses a gun or a knife and forces you under threat of immediate death to take your clothes off. If all you did was say, 'no, stop that' repeatedly, or 'no, not without a condom' and make feeble attempts to escape, and if he stopped after a while and if you trusted him enough to follow him into a bedroom in the first place, why, that's just morning-after regrets, bad sex. It's important that you understand the difference, because there are serious legal consequences. Okay?
 
2012-12-04 08:01:58 AM  

Exception Collection: ... when I'm strung out on caffiene, haven't had any of my nightly medicines, and have been awake for 25 hours and at work for 21.5 hours? Nope, my memory's shot. What I can tell you is that the jokes are common on Fetlife (a social networking site for those of us that are kinky). They're common in locker rooms (Unless boys have changed in the last 15 years or so). They're common in comments about news regarding rape, like the "legitimate rape" threads.


Today I learned that 4chan is the same as society as a whole.
 
2012-12-04 08:02:09 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Serious Black: Yeah, I agree. Getting called a supporter of rape culture is at least as bad as getting raped.

You see, this is the bullshiat argumentation I'm talking about. I've done nothing in this thread but condemn the crime of rape and to question the assertion that we live in a culture that condones and promotes it. And here you are twisting my words to imply that I've said that my annoyance at being called a supporter of rape culture is as bad as being raped.

What the fark is wrong with you?


some people live with a Rorschach psyche
 
2012-12-04 08:02:21 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Serious Black: Yeah, I agree. Getting called a supporter of rape culture is at least as bad as getting raped.

You see, this is the bullshiat argumentation I'm talking about. I've done nothing in this thread but condemn the crime of rape and to question the assertion that we live in a culture that condones and promotes it. And here you are twisting my words to imply that I've said that my annoyance at being called a supporter of rape culture is as bad as being raped.

What the fark is wrong with you?


When an accusation of rape is made, the only acceptable response to convene a lynch mob. Otherwise, you love rape.

//yeah, I said it twice
 
2012-12-04 08:03:10 AM  

aagrajag: MrHappyRotter: aagrajag: Millennium: Warlordtrooper: Millennium: Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.

Assuming, of course, that the malice can be proved beyond reasonable doubt like any other crime. That's going to be a very difficult thing to do, but then, rape has not, as a rule, proved to be an easy thing to prosecute either.

You don't have to always prove malice or intent. It's up to the legislature to specify that when it makes the law

Statutory rape is an example of a crime you don't need to prove malice or intent for a conviction

But in this particular case, malice is what would make the crime. Cases of simple mistaken identity should obviously not be punished, for example. Much like rape itself, states of mind are more important to the definition than the crime itself: the same acts can be rape or not rape, depending solely on whether or not all parties to those acts are willing. In the same way, false accusation could be criminal or not criminal, depending solely on whether or not the accuser is acting maliciously.

Or, to put it another way, failure to convict for rape should not be prima facie evidence of malicious accusation.

Of course, as always, no one is suggesting that we move to an hideous Saudi-style system, but certain people love to imply it.

Proving an accusation of rape is difficult; proving that someone has knowingly filed a false rape complaint is nearly impossible. Absent an admission, like a recording or email to the effect of "Yeah, I lied. Got that bastard good, didn't I?", forget it.

So, if you're worried about innocent women getting falsely convicted of knowingly filing false complaints, you must be even more worried about men being falsely convicted of rape.

Rape is a horrible crime. Grasping the state's monopoly on violence and wielding it to falsely imprison a man for ~7 years, destroy his family, ...


shiat, I was raped by the reply button. My bad.
 
2012-12-04 08:04:02 AM  

ChaoticLimbs: Oh my god, how can I possibly be the only one sensitive and enlightened enough to feel uncomfortable talking about rape? Look at all of you talking about rape- they're right, it's a Rape Culture. Hey, ladies- for the record, I oppose rape. It's just too rapey for me. I only like consensual sex wherein I go down for 30 minutes so you can finish thinking about your bills, finally get aroused, and sort of enjoy it. And then I go into the restroom and ejaculate in the toilet as god intended. I enjoy long walks on the beach and white knighting in threads.

Look, rape culture is real but if anyone can't tell within 5 minutes which meat-headed idiots think of a woman as an object and which ones are intelligent and rational people, I don't know how to correct that. It's silly to call someone out for supporting rape culture simply because he pointed out that while not every man is of high character, not every woman is either. Some are opportunistic scumbags exactly like the rapists themselves. They have different motives, but the same complete lack of interest in the consequences of their actions exists. We can start solving social problems as soon as we stop deifying one gender and demonizing the other. We all pretty much suck a bit.


you must have really been uncomfortable typing that...
 
2012-12-04 08:05:02 AM  

MrHappyRotter: Good lord, some of you need to clean the centipedes out of your vaginas. She recanted. She admitted she lied. She did the right thing. No harm, no foul. So calm the fake out rage down to about a 4 or 5,


The "right thing" would have been not making a false accusation in the frist place, involuntarily dragging an innocent man already unfortunate enough to have had sex with her into a police interrogation.

She merely confessed to doing the wrong thing.
 
2012-12-04 08:05:26 AM  

MrHappyRotter: aagrajag: MrHappyRotter: aagrajag: Millennium: Warlordtrooper: Millennium: Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.

Assuming, of course, that the malice can be proved beyond reasonable doubt like any other crime. That's going to be a very difficult thing to do, but then, rape has not, as a rule, proved to be an easy thing to prosecute either.

You don't have to always prove malice or intent. It's up to the legislature to specify that when it makes the law

Statutory rape is an example of a crime you don't need to prove malice or intent for a conviction

But in this particular case, malice is what would make the crime. Cases of simple mistaken identity should obviously not be punished, for example. Much like rape itself, states of mind are more important to the definition than the crime itself: the same acts can be rape or not rape, depending solely on whether or not all parties to those acts are willing. In the same way, false accusation could be criminal or not criminal, depending solely on whether or not the accuser is acting maliciously.

Or, to put it another way, failure to convict for rape should not be prima facie evidence of malicious accusation.

Of course, as always, no one is suggesting that we move to an hideous Saudi-style system, but certain people love to imply it.

Proving an accusation of rape is difficult; proving that someone has knowingly filed a false rape complaint is nearly impossible. Absent an admission, like a recording or email to the effect of "Yeah, I lied. Got that bastard good, didn't I?", forget it.

So, if you're worried about innocent women getting falsely convicted of knowingly filing false complaints, you must be even more worried about men being falsely convicted of rape.

Rape is a horrible crime. Grasping the state's monopoly on violence and wielding it to falsely imprison a man for ~7 years, destroy h ...


Well, dressed like that, what did you expect?

//thank you for lightening up the thread a bit
 
2012-12-04 08:05:58 AM  

freewill: MrHappyRotter: Good lord, some of you need to clean the centipedes out of your vaginas. She recanted. She admitted she lied. She did the right thing. No harm, no foul. So calm the fake out rage down to about a 4 or 5,

The "right thing" would have been not making a false accusation in the frist place, involuntarily dragging an innocent man already unfortunate enough to have had sex with her into a police interrogation.

She merely confessed to doing the wrong thing.


Not sure if trolling.......???
 
2012-12-04 08:06:04 AM  

sparrow794: untaken_name: Uh, how could anyone possibly know how many rapes are unreported? That doesn't make any logical sense at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Crime_Victimization_Survey


Uh, hello? If they report the rape, it's not unreported.
 
2012-12-04 08:06:32 AM  
There was a guy here locally that just got released and pardoned for a sexual assault that never happened. Convicted in 2008, for a 'crime' that happened some years earlier. She was 10 and he was 14 at the time of the supposed incident. Completely false accusation, and he was tried, convicted, and spent 4 years in prison.

Why did she accuse him? At age 17, her mother caught the teenager looking at porn, and the little idiot blamed it on a sexual assault. Why pick that particular guy? He was a neighbor who had recently moved away.

Can you imagine how pissed off you'd be? Sitting there in prison, knowing you did nothing wrong.
 
2012-12-04 08:06:43 AM  

Serious Black: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Serious Black: I was referring to people like Todd Akin who think there are different categories of rape. Sadly, there are a lot of people who think he is 100% right. I know a number of them...they think that a woman going out to a bar wearing a revealing outfit and having a couple of beers was asking for it.

Yeah, it sucks that there are some men who minimize issues like rape in the US, just as it sucks that there are women who are all to willing to use accusations of rape or the threat of those accusations as a weapon.

Here's the thing, not all men are rapists; in fact, very few of them are. Similarly, not all women use the accusation of rape or its threat as a weapon; but some of them do and that number is probably higher than the opponents of "rape culture" would like to admit. In my own dating history it's running at about 10% who make joking comments about crying rape if they don't get what they want.

I've never stuck my dick in anyone who didn't either verbally ask for it or pull it out and do it themselves but I've been repeatedly denigrated as a potential rapist since I have a dick or told that I'm a supporter of rape culture because I'm not the loudest in the two minutes hate. Honestly, I'm getting pretty farking sick of it.

Yeah, I agree. Getting called a supporter of rape culture is at least as bad as getting raped.


Yeah, getting shot in the face is at least as bad as getting shot in the arm, since im being a facetious moron, it should be cool if we shoot random people in the arm. Because 2 wrongs somehow make an Internet point? I don't even know what stupid point you're trying to make.
 
2012-12-04 08:08:29 AM  

Doc Daneeka: I'm not saying that point is wrong, just that focusing on it demonstrates an unconcern with the larger and more immediate point.


Because fark men, that's why.
 
2012-12-04 08:10:53 AM  

Exception Collection: and that was my introduction to rape culture.


I'didn't write anything about "rape-culture". I was gona write that it is plain bullfark, but at this moment I read about all this GOP "legitimate rape"...
it depend a lot from where you live and what your entourage is. I live in Berlin, and in the bars I go, you would'nt be groped. But maybee I'm living on my small island where the world looks not that bad and I'm a bit delusional.
As a TS, maybee you should maybe look for such an Island.
 
2012-12-04 08:10:57 AM  

GAT_00: Police charged her with filing a false report. A bond was set at $2,000.

Of course, the man she accused was look at what, 10 years? This seems fair.


And, of course, for the rest of his life any time someone googles his name or does a criminal background (at least a good one) check it will show the arrest. And any job application he fills out will ask if he's ever been charged with any crime (not just convicted).

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Women threatening to accuse men of rape is not as rare as you might think. I've had two women in my life "jokingly" tell me that it was their trump card if they didn't get what they wanted.


You should have recorded their statements and then later on raped them. If they tried to press charges, BAM, you have them on tape saying they planned to file false charges. No lose situation!

:0
 
2012-12-04 08:12:01 AM  

ph0rk: Doc Daneeka: I'm not saying that point is wrong, just that focusing on it demonstrates an unconcern with the larger and more immediate point.

Because fark men, that's why.


isn't that what got the defendant into trouble in the first place?
 
2012-12-04 08:14:09 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: BronyMedic: You're actually going to set here, with a straight face, and tell me that rape culture doesn't exist in the United States?

Yes, I am.

Rape is an egregious crime and one that we are working, as a culture, to stamp out. And we're making progress. For you to come in and claim that despite a 15% reduction in rapes per 100K persons we still, as a culture, condone rape is laughable.

I'm not saying that rape isn't a crime or that it isn't a problem or that the frequency with which it occurs is acceptable. I'm saying that your assertion that there is this vast cultural conspiracy to turn a blind eye to the problem is ridiculous on its face.

BronyMedic: Women are encouraged not to report rape. They're the ones at fault, not the people who raped them. And then you have idiots like this, who use rape accusations to destroy the lives of men, and suffer relatively no consequences in return.

Women threatening to accuse men of rape is not as rare as you might think. I've had two women in my life "jokingly" tell me that it was their trump card if they didn't get what they wanted.


That's about as funny as joking about a bomb at an airport. But, it does clearly illustrate that many women have no idea just how much of a nuclear weapon that is.
 
2012-12-04 08:14:26 AM  

Exception Collection: Moonlightfox: "Anyone who doesn't think exactly like I tell them to is a pro-rape misogynist, also men are all inherently rapists"
I was raised to be sympathetic to women's rights, but the more feminists say things like this and cast insults at my entire gender the less I give a shiat what they have to say.

I don't think anyone in this thread said that. I damned well know I didn't. But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape. As referenced above, a girl that sleeps around is considered a slut; a slut can't be raped, right? Or what if they made certain decisions about the activities involved, and the guy decides "screw that, I want anal"?

We have a culture that supports rape jokes. We have a culture that treats victims like sluts. We have a culture that inhibits reporting. We have a culture in which the federal government exempting military contractors from civil suits regarding rapes they did nothing to prevent is considered acceptable. We have a culture that makes it the women's problem for wearing "slutty" clothing, not the man's.

We have a rape culture.

---

As for the mention of assault, or of murder - No, I'd count those as "violent" culture. Rape is in a special little corner, though, because it's not just about injuring the victim - it's about destroying them.


Give it a rest.
 
2012-12-04 08:15:06 AM  
Doesn't the fact he won't be charged mean he WON'T sleep with all you white knights?
 
2012-12-04 08:15:36 AM  

aagrajag: That's about as funny as joking about a bomb at an airport. But, it does clearly illustrate that many women have no idea just how much of a nuclear weapon that is.


If you'd try to point it out to them, they'd say "so what?"

However one might define decent human being: "likely to falsely accuse a man of rape to get their way" probably isn't how one would act.
 
2012-12-04 08:15:55 AM  
Fasely accusing of rape should be a sex offense. People should be able to look offenders up by name or facial recognition and see if they have falsely accused someone before so they can know to avoid them and take precautionary measures when around them.
 
2012-12-04 08:16:59 AM  

Exception Collection: //Halloween before last, I was at a bar with friends. Several people groped me throughout the night. I'll admit that I was wearing clothing that was a little more risque than I usually do in public - I usually lean towards the "Wouldn't be out of place at a church" side of things - but the fact that I was wearing leggings and a skirt wasn't an invitation to pat my ass. When I complained about it to one of the people that patted me, he said "Well then why'd you wear that?" - as though it was MY fault... and that was my introduction to rape culture.


While I wasn't there and can't attest to the situation, there are a number of venues that are known to have "those types" of Halloween parties. They're wild and that kind of behavior is sort of expected by everybody going in, and if the bar policed it, the people who are there wouldn't want to be there anymore.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call that rape culture as much as as a promiscuity culture, although I don't mean to in any way downplay how offensive it may have been to you.
 
2012-12-04 08:17:16 AM  

ChuDogg: Fasely accusing of rape should be a sex offense. People should be able to look offenders up by name or facial recognition and see if they have falsely accused someone before so they can know to avoid them and take precautionary measures when around them.


Rape is a crime where the accused is guilty until proven slightly less guilty.
 
2012-12-04 08:18:10 AM  

Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.


Since when are harsh sentences any form of deterrent? All your proposal would do is lessen the chance that a false accuser would recant her statement.
 
2012-12-04 08:19:13 AM  

Exception Collection: Ideal? 100% conviction of the guilty, 100% release of the innocent, 100% punishment of those that deliberately destroy the lives of others.


How do you know what percentage of defendants in the report were guilty?
 
2012-12-04 08:19:15 AM  

ph0rk: aagrajag: That's about as funny as joking about a bomb at an airport. But, it does clearly illustrate that many women have no idea just how much of a nuclear weapon that is.

If you'd try to point it out to them, they'd say "so what?"

However one might define decent human being: "likely to falsely accuse a man of rape to get their way" probably isn't how one would act.


I disagree; I think that the vast majority women would not knowingly make a false accusation of rape, but truly cannot understanding that the accusation alone is so powerful that it really isn't something to joke about. I think most women would be surprised to discover so.
 
2012-12-04 08:19:27 AM  

MrHappyRotter: Good lord, some of you need to clean the centipedes out of your vaginas. She recanted. She admitted she lied. She did the right thing. No harm, no foul. So calm the fake out rage down to about a 4 or 5,


You've obviously never been on the receiving end of a false accusation. Not only has the man been harmed psychologically and almost certainly financially (lawyers get very expensive very quickly) but other woman and men who actually /have/ been raped are now taken skeptically because of false reports like hers. No harm no foul is as false as her accusation.
 
2012-12-04 08:20:37 AM  

aagrajag: ph0rk: aagrajag: That's about as funny as joking about a bomb at an airport. But, it does clearly illustrate that many women have no idea just how much of a nuclear weapon that is.

If you'd try to point it out to them, they'd say "so what?"

However one might define decent human being: "likely to falsely accuse a man of rape to get their way" probably isn't how one would act.

I disagree; I think that the vast majority of women would not knowingly make a false accusation of rape, but truly cannot understanding that the accusation alone is so powerful that it really isn't something to joke about. I think most women would be surprised to discover so.


//drinking shochu
 
2012-12-04 08:20:52 AM  
If they weren't both horny sluts that use meetme.com for a cheap fark, this never would've happened.

/ I went there
// stirring the pot a bit
/// but it's not untrue!
 
2012-12-04 08:21:01 AM  

MrHappyRotter: sexorcisst: MrHappyRotter: Good lord, some of you need to clean the centipedes out of your vaginas. She recanted. She admitted she lied. She did the right thing. No harm, no foul. So calm the fake out rage down to about a 4 or 5,

Does this happen all the time where you come from or something? That woman's actions were ludicrous.

Doing the right thing and recanting on her rape allegations? Yeah, stuff like that happens all the time around here. People are imperfect and occasionally do things they shouldn't or didn't think were a big deal, but upon retrospection make an attempt to rectify the situation.


You don't think it's because these things happen all the time, that people are quick to feel frustrated and enraged?
 
2012-12-04 08:21:03 AM  

Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.


That sounds just and our justice system doesn't work that way.
 
2012-12-04 08:21:15 AM  
She ought to be placed on the sex offender registry for this.

Think about it.
 
2012-12-04 08:22:09 AM  

Revek: Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.

That sounds just and our justice system doesn't work that way.


That's because it's the "adversarial system" now, where the best arguer wins. I wish I was kidding.
 
2012-12-04 08:22:29 AM  

aagrajag: I disagree; I think that the vast majority women would not knowingly make a false accusation of rape, but truly cannot understanding that the accusation alone is so powerful that it really isn't something to joke about. I think most women would be surprised to discover so.


I refuse to believe that "most women" would be such blithering idiots.

Any adult in the US who has an IQ above 70 knows a rape accusation is a nuclear option, second only to child molestation.

/I'm sure people joke about making that accusation, too.
 
2012-12-04 08:24:02 AM  

doczoidberg: She ought to be placed on the sex offender registry for this.

Think about it.


Hey, just because you've admitted to making false accusations of rape doesn't mean you can't be raped.

The above sentence is true, but maybe one shouldn't cry wolf.
 
2012-12-04 08:24:35 AM  

aagrajag: That's about as funny as joking about a bomb at an airport. But, it does clearly illustrate that many women have no idea just how much of a nuclear weapon that is.


Yep, pretty much ended the relationship then and there although I was very careful in how I extricated myself.
 
2012-12-04 08:25:11 AM  
Jus like ma ol'pappy used to say to me:

"He also told me one thing, 'If you do (have premarital sex), just remember, consensual sex can turn into rape in an awful hurry,' " Rivard said. "Because all of a sudden a young lady gets pregnant thinks the sex is bad and the parents are is madder than a wet hen and she's not going to say, 'Oh, yeah, I was part of the program.' All that she has to say or the parents have to say is it was rape because she's underagesatisfied. And he just said, 'Remember, Roger, if you go down that road, some girls,' he said, 'they rape so easy.'

inorite?
 
2012-12-04 08:25:45 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: aagrajag: That's about as funny as joking about a bomb at an airport. But, it does clearly illustrate that many women have no idea just how much of a nuclear weapon that is.

Yep, pretty much ended the relationship then and there although I was very careful in how I extricated myself.


The amusing thing is, even if you believed her - what would you do? Call the cops?

"My girlfriend threatened to accuse me of rape."

Call a lawyer? What?
 
2012-12-04 08:26:25 AM  

ph0rk: aagrajag: I disagree; I think that the vast majority women would not knowingly make a false accusation of rape, but truly cannot understanding that the accusation alone is so powerful that it really isn't something to joke about. I think most women would be surprised to discover so.

I refuse to believe that "most women" would be such blithering idiots.

Any adult in the US who has an IQ above 70 knows a rape accusation is a nuclear option, second only to child molestation.

/I'm sure people joke about making that accusation, too.


When it's a weapon that can never be pointed at you, you may fail to realise how dangerous it is.

However if a woman even joked about that to me, I would immediately establish an alibi, then disappear from that woman's life. That's really the only prudent course.
 
2012-12-04 08:26:56 AM  

ph0rk: aagrajag: I disagree; I think that the vast majority women would not knowingly make a false accusation of rape, but truly cannot understanding that the accusation alone is so powerful that it really isn't something to joke about. I think most women would be surprised to discover so.

I refuse to believe that "most women" would be such blithering idiots.

Any adult in the US who has an IQ above 70 knows a rape accusation is a nuclear option, second only to child molestation.

/I'm sure people joke about making that accusation, too.


Yeah, aagrajag has a wildly optimistic view of people as a whole.

Most folks, male or female, knowing they have a death ray that leaves no evidence of their involvement, would eventually rationalize using it on an enemy. When an adult goes to the police to falsely accuse someone of a felony, I would happily wager that in the majority of cases, it's not because of a lack of understanding of the consequences, but rather a sincere belief that there are no meaningful consequences for them and, possibly, a lack of understanding that filing a false complaint is, itself, a crime.
 
2012-12-04 08:26:57 AM  

aagrajag: However if a woman even joked about that to me, I would immediately establish an alibi, then disappear from that woman's life. That's really the only prudent course.


An alibi for what? If you've already had sex, you don't have one.
 
2012-12-04 08:27:01 AM  
If that is true, then every Farker on this thread is therapist.
 
2012-12-04 08:28:21 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Exception Collection: AverageAmericanGuy: A key that opens every lock is a master key.

A lock that opens to every key is a shiatty lock.

That's not rape-culture. That's science.

And your joke, right there, *is* rape culture.

I've seen the light. I'll never use a key again.


As you shouldn't, inserting a key into a lock is a penetrative act, and symbolic of the patriarchy, you really should replace everything with keyless entry, or just leave things unlocked, if you leave something unlocked it is in no way your fault that your shiat gets stolen, you weren't asking for it. But either way, never violate a lock with a key again.
 
2012-12-04 08:28:31 AM  

doglover: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

Of all the false rapes, this one's the funniest. Not like that stripper in the Duke case. That was just money.


No, it's still Roethlisberger. 'Cuz we all still call him Rapey Ben, despite the cases being dropped.
 
2012-12-04 08:29:06 AM  

ph0rk: aagrajag: However if a woman even joked about that to me, I would immediately establish an alibi, then disappear from that woman's life. That's really the only prudent course.

An alibi for what? If you've already had sex, you don't have one.


The closest thing would be to quickly get a recording of her making that joke.

I am again thankful to be married to a delightfully sane woman.
 
2012-12-04 08:29:18 AM  
As foretold by Dave Chappelle:

Vid Link
 
2012-12-04 08:31:43 AM  

freewill: While I wasn't there and can't attest to the situation, there are a number of venues that are known to have "those types" of Halloween parties. They're wild and that kind of behavior is sort of expected by everybody going in, and if the bar policed it, the people who are there wouldn't want to be there anymore.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call that rape culture as much as as a promiscuity culture, although I don't mean to in any way downplay how offensive it may have been to you.


Yeah, it was one of "those" types of bars. It caught me off guard because it was *also* a night when an extremely consent-aware clientele (kink & BDSM community) visits, and all my friends are part of that particular group.
 
2012-12-04 08:37:24 AM  

Exception Collection: namatad: Lorelle: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

This. I hate women who do this sort of thing.

should be a felony
and should have a pretty big penalty attached to it ...

on the other hand, if the penalty is TOO large, then the women who file false reports might be LESS likely to admit they lied in the first place ....

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
maybe death penalty ....
that would put the FEAR of filing a false rape charge in the first place

sigh
at least the cops did their jobs and charged her

The problem is proving a false report as opposed to one you can't prove. Rape culture still exists, and women are still afraid to acknowledge when they've been raped for fear that they won't be believed.


Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches (about 25% according to The Innocense Project) about the only rape culture that really exists is women lying about it. Women have only themselves to blame if nobody believes them.

The accusor in a rape allegation should have to submit to a polygraph test.

If the accusor is lying should have to pay all the accused legal costs, and on air and youtube public apology and pay back the tax payers for any investication costs.

If proof other than a polygraph can be found that the accusor is lying should be subject to the same prison sentence the accused would have received if convicted.

Better that a guility man go free than an innocent one go to jail.
 
2012-12-04 08:40:38 AM  
Time to start doing background checks I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSfnZMmOYws
 
2012-12-04 08:41:21 AM  

hasty ambush: Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches


fark off
 
2012-12-04 08:42:41 AM  

ranak: Time to start doing background checks I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSfnZMmOYws


http://www.mybackgroundcheck.com/
 
2012-12-04 08:43:13 AM  

hasty ambush: Exception Collection: namatad: Lorelle: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

This. I hate women who do this sort of thing.

should be a felony
and should have a pretty big penalty attached to it ...

on the other hand, if the penalty is TOO large, then the women who file false reports might be LESS likely to admit they lied in the first place ....

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
maybe death penalty ....
that would put the FEAR of filing a false rape charge in the first place

sigh
at least the cops did their jobs and charged her

The problem is proving a false report as opposed to one you can't prove. Rape culture still exists, and women are still afraid to acknowledge when they've been raped for fear that they won't be believed.

Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches (about 25% according to The Innocense Project) about the only rape culture that really exists is women lying about it. Women have only themselves to blame if nobody believes them.

The accusor in a rape allegation should have to submit to a polygraph test.

If the accusor is lying should have to pay all the accused legal costs, and on air and youtube public apology and pay back the tax payers for any investication costs.

If proof other than a polygraph can be found that the accusor is lying should be subject to the same prison sentence the accused would have received if convicted.

Better that a guility man go free than an innocent one go to jail.


Well, apparently there is an advocate for Saudi-style bullshiat.

A failed polygraph test should be cause enough for a public apology? And I'm more or less on your side.

Prosecute a suspected false claim as any other: beyond a reasonable doubt. A notoriously inaccurate polygraph doesn't even come close.

And yes: a conviction should carry the same penalties as those that would have been levied upon the accused man.
 
2012-12-04 08:43:21 AM  

ranak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSfnZMmOYws


Ah, so it *was* "Amazon Women on the Moon" I was thinking of earlier. Thanks for posting that!
 
2012-12-04 08:44:17 AM  

Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.


So much THIS.
 
2012-12-04 08:45:32 AM  

hasty ambush: Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches (about 25% according to The Innocense Project) about the only rape culture that really exists is women lying about it. Women have only themselves to blame if nobody believes them.


i306.photobucket.com

Actually, the home office of the UK puts the number at about 3%. United States numbers vary from 2-8% of rape claims.
 
2012-12-04 08:49:04 AM  

BronyMedic: hasty ambush: Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches (about 25% according to The Innocense Project) about the only rape culture that really exists is women lying about it. Women have only themselves to blame if nobody believes them.

Actually, the home office of the UK puts the number at about 3%. United States numbers vary from 2-8% of rape claims.


You dont have to counter intentionally inflated high numbers with intentionally deflated low numbers.
 
2012-12-04 08:49:20 AM  
I hope she is treated like every accused rapist is by our legal system.
 
2012-12-04 08:49:23 AM  

namatad: The worst part is the damage this does to actual rape victims.


No, the worst part is the damage this does to actual innocent people who have been incarcerated for years or even decades. They are very directly harmed by being falsely accused and convicted of crimes they didn't commit.

I'm quite sick of feminists who take the position that how it 'harms women' is always the biggest problem. What about the very real men who've lost years of their lives, and become rape victims in prison themselves, because of this? They are the 'worst part' of false allegations.

Serious Black: At worst, she makes all women look like they want the sex every single time and just decide afterward that they didn't want it after all.


Really? That's 'at worst'? Not 'at worst, her accusation results in an innocent man being imprisoned for decades and subject to violence and rape himself.'?

Because fark him, he's a man right? So who gives a shiat what happens to him.

Exception Collection: The thing about this is, murder just destroys them once. Rape destroys them (for a while at least) every time a man touches them - every time they are alone - every time they remember what happened.


What a great message to send to someone who's been raped. Bombard them constantly with the message that they are forever damaged goods who will either never heal, or that it will take an extremely long time, that they are destroyed repeatedly, that they will feel like victims and not feel safe when they're alone, or when a man they actually like touches them. Make sure they know that they have to be scared, damaged, scarred victims. That's an awesome way to help people.

Keep telling them that it's worse than murder. That it would be better if they were dead. That will really help a person heal and move on with their life.

The top reason why being raped isn't as bad as being murdered is that someone who was raped has their life to go on living. If you're dead, there is absolutely zero chance you will recover from that and live a happy, fulfilling life.
 
2012-12-04 08:50:18 AM  
Someone asked for rape jokes?
8 out of 9 people enjoy gang rape
Why is rape impossible? A woman can run faster with her skirt up than a man can with his pants down....

/here all week
//try the veal
///3 slashie rule
 
2012-12-04 08:51:41 AM  
 
2012-12-04 08:52:43 AM  
WTF is "rape culture" supposed to be anyway? Is there a community that actively promotes rape as such? Is there a significant body of literature that encourages it? Is there art or music built up around it? Are there rape bars? Do people wear rape clothing or dress according to rape fashoin? Are social relations built around rape? I don't even know what "rape culture" would be if it existed. Other than a few rap or RnB songs, I can't think of anything that would qualify as such a thing. And before someone says "b-b-b-but Todd Akin" or something stupid, remember that so-called conservatives in the US tend to favor harsh penalties for convicted rapists. I've met a lot of people who like sex, but nary a one who likes rape.
 
2012-12-04 08:58:03 AM  
Btw, I'm very anti-rape.....

/gave the wife horrible sexy-time last night....
//she asked "Who do you think your going to please with THAT?"
///Me!!!!
 
2012-12-04 09:00:29 AM  

BronyMedic: hasty ambush: Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches (about 25% according to The Innocense Project) about the only rape culture that really exists is women lying about it. Women have only themselves to blame if nobody believes them.

Actually, the home office of the UK puts the number at about 3%. United States numbers vary from 2-8% of rape claims.


Nobody knows, or will ever know, how high that number is. The best we can ever do is establish a lower bound by considering the number of cases in which the accuser's claims are definitively proven to be false -which is pretty rare. Both of you please stop quoting meaningless numbers
 
2012-12-04 09:01:24 AM  

namatad: The worst part is the damage this does to actual rape victims. At some point, more and more rapists start to use the story. "NOW, she is just trying to get me in trouble.", "Not my fault that she ...."


It probably wouldn't work if it weren't so often true.

\shame about that
 
2012-12-04 09:02:25 AM  

BronyMedic: ChuDogg:
You dont have to counter intentionally inflated high numbers with intentionally deflated low numbers.

Finally, myths about high rates of false reports are perpetuated by media stories that provide excessive coverage of highly sensationalized cases. News agencies make little effort to reach out to the academic community to include professional opinions about the validity of the majority of rape reports. Instead, the general public is bombarded with stories about "gold-digging" women who falsely accuse athletes or prominent public figures. Very rarely do we hear the countless true stories of women and children who are abused and manipulated by men they know and trust.


Wikipedia.

Your numbers are on the low end of studies being done. His numbers were on the higher end of the spectrum.

The average seems to be around 8-20%.

Not sure what your opinion quote is about. You could have just stated your own opinion.
 
2012-12-04 09:02:34 AM  
Poor dude, first the news story was he was a rapist, now the story is "Nope, not a rapist. Just a lousy lay." That aint gonna help his dating future any.
 
2012-12-04 09:02:58 AM  
Isn't a "rape culture" what's left in the petri dish when one is finished?
 
2012-12-04 09:04:08 AM  
BronyMedic:
[Citation Needed]

Worth reading 

/Only applies to the UK, though
 
2012-12-04 09:04:44 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Heh. I think my favorite of these stories was the one from Arizona from a few years back. Young woman filed a rape claim, no information on her attacker, police asked around and people told them she was a huge party girl and drama queen and they threatened her with everything under the sun till she recanted then filed for the same filing a false police report charge which she plead guilty to.

Couple years later, pretty much by absolute accident, they managed to catch a serial rapist. Turns out he took pictures of all his victims as he was torturing them. In the process of tracking down the identity of all the victims so they could press as many charges as they could, guess whose pictures were in there?


Sometimes when you cry wolf, there actually is a wolf, but everyone has gotten tired of listening to your lying ass and no one comes running. The moral of the story was to be less of a douchebag, because sometimes you'll need people to believe you.
 
2012-12-04 09:06:28 AM  

ChuDogg: The average seems to be around 8-20%.


It's not hard to post a link to your statistics. Even the Wikipedia Article in question states that the FBI's uniform crime statistics have consistantly put the average of false reports at 8%.

ChuDogg: Not sure what your opinion quote is about. You could have just stated your own opinion


Maybe if you actually clicked the link and read where it was quoted from, you'd realize it wasn't just my opinion.
 
2012-12-04 09:06:45 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Exception Collection: We have a culture that supports rape jokes

Really? I can't remember the last time I heard a good rape joke. Care to share one?


i.ytimg.com
/Just one scene of many good rape jokes throughout that movie...
//The best may be "people stampeded and cattle raped!"...

1.bp.blogspot.com
scrapetv.com
etc., etc...

Consult any random Fark thread for several hundred more good examples...
 
2012-12-04 09:07:15 AM  

BronyMedic: ChuDogg:
You dont have to counter intentionally inflated high numbers with intentionally deflated low numbers.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x271]

Finally, myths about high rates of false reports are perpetuated by media stories that provide excessive coverage of highly sensationalized cases. News agencies make little effort to reach out to the academic community to include professional opinions about the validity of the majority of rape reports. Instead, the general public is bombarded with stories about "gold-digging" women who falsely accuse athletes or prominent public figures. Very rarely do we hear the countless true stories of women and children who are abused and manipulated by men they know and trust.



From the study cited by the article you linked (that I had to dig to find); emphasis mine:

Rather, investigators and prosecutors must base all final judgments of a sexual assault report on the findings from a thorough, evidence-based investigation. The determination that a report is false can then only be when there is sufficient evidence to establish that the sexual assault did not happen (was not completed or attempted.) This does not mean that the investigation failed to prove that the sexual assault happened- in that case the investigation would simply be inconclusive or unsubstantiated.

Do you understand what you're saying? This very article we are discussing would not be a "false report" without her confession, even though it was false.

The 2-8 percent so oft cited is of cases in which they could prove, through confession or evidence, that the woman was lying. Citing that number as the only reports in which the man was innocent is literally saying that if the woman says rape, and there is zero evidence, that the man is still guilty.

More fearmongering, in other words.
 
2012-12-04 09:07:32 AM  
She really deserves to be raped.
 
2012-12-04 09:08:30 AM  

BronyMedic: One in five women, and one in 71 men will be raped in their lifetime.


Without accepting either number, if you accept the first stat, then there is clearly something flawed with the second, or vice-versa.
 
2012-12-04 09:09:51 AM  
Can someone explain "rape culture" to me?

Is it something I have to be careful not to offend, like Islam?
 
2012-12-04 09:09:59 AM  

sudo give me more cowbell: BronyMedic: hasty ambush: Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches (about 25% according to The Innocense Project) about the only rape culture that really exists is women lying about it. Women have only themselves to blame if nobody believes them.

Actually, the home office of the UK puts the number at about 3%. United States numbers vary from 2-8% of rape claims.

Nobody knows, or will ever know, how high that number is. The best we can ever do is establish a lower bound by considering the number of cases in which the accuser's claims are definitively proven to be false -which is pretty rare. Both of you please stop quoting meaningless numbers


Well unless a case was explicitly proven in a court of law, and the false accuser was convicted of criminal charges, then it is obvious all other accusations were 100% true. Even in the former, many recantations were actually true but the accuser felt pressured and threatened to recant, so many of those numbers will need to be arbitrarily lowered to reflect this reality. Because a false accusation never results in the accuser just dropping her story and a prosecutor not having enough evidence to convict.

According to my extensive studies on this subject i have found the number of actual false accusations to be exactly zero. none. It doesn't happen outside internet message boards. We can stop pretending to even have trials anymore as they dont provide anything of value besides dragging the victims through the mud again and be verbally raped by old white males in court
 
2012-12-04 09:10:38 AM  

Serious Black: I was referring to people like Todd Akin who think there are different categories of rape.


A cursory review of any standard legal text would indicate that position is in fact correct.
 
2012-12-04 09:10:39 AM  

BronyMedic: It's not hard to post a link to your statistics. Even the Wikipedia Article in question states that the FBI's uniform crime statistics have consistantly put the average of false reports at 8%.


Is that all crimes or just rape? If it's just rape, how does it compare with the rate of false reporting for other crimes?
 
2012-12-04 09:12:08 AM  

BronyMedic: ChuDogg: The average seems to be around 8-20%.

It's not hard to post a link to your statistics. Even the Wikipedia Article in question states that the FBI's uniform crime statistics have consistantly put the average of false reports at 8%.

ChuDogg: Not sure what your opinion quote is about. You could have just stated your own opinion

Maybe if you actually clicked the link and read where it was quoted from, you'd realize it wasn't just my opinion.


Im on my phone so if you want to discuss stuff on the internet you'll just have to deal with people who dont post or click links.

So you're in agreement the FBI's rate was exactly what i said? I said abu
 
2012-12-04 09:12:22 AM  

Dokushin: Do you understand what you're saying? This very article we are discussing would not be a "false report" without her confession, even though it was false.

The 2-8 percent so oft cited is of cases in which they could prove, through confession or evidence, that the woman was lying. Citing that number as the only reports in which the man was innocent is literally saying that if the woman says rape, and there is zero evidence, that the man is still guilty.

More fearmongering, in other words.


You're right. False reports happen all the time. It's just the evil Femnazi Liberal agenda trying to keep that quiet to make men suffer. Damn you libtard media! Damn you to Christian Hell with the diapers of Baby Jesus!

images.sodahead.com

Your argument basically boils down to "if there's no evidence a rape actually occured, it's a false report". That's an insane strawman. It's also the reason why so many rapes are unreported.

people.virginia.edu
 
2012-12-04 09:14:08 AM  
This is exactly why I video all of my 'encounters.'
 
2012-12-04 09:15:24 AM  

RobSeace: /Just one scene of many good rape jokes throughout that movie...
//The best may be "people stampeded and cattle raped!"...


Yeah, even though I've spent the last twenty years on the internet I still don't consider it to be "real life". I did realize a little later on that "you said rape twice" counts as a rape joke even though it was from a movie released almost forty years ago (yeah let that sink in for a minute).

I guess fark counts as rape culture.
 
2012-12-04 09:15:38 AM  
I like it when people post the logic fallacies they are trolling with.
 
2012-12-04 09:17:19 AM  

ChuDogg:
Im on my phone so if you want to discuss stuff on the internet you'll just have to deal with people who dont post or click links.

So you're in agreement the FBI's rate was exactly what i said? I said abu


No, You said 8-20%, and chided me on using "intentionally deflated numbers".

Monkeyhouse Zendo: BronyMedic: It's not hard to post a link to your statistics. Even the Wikipedia Article in question states that the FBI's uniform crime statistics have consistantly put the average of false reports at 8%.

Is that all crimes or just rape? If it's just rape, how does it compare with the rate of false reporting for other crimes?


According to Wikipedia, the "unfounded" percentage of rape cases are 8%, while the general crime statistic is 2%. It also goes to point out that "unfounded" does not necessarily mean a false claim of rape, rather a case which cannot be persued due to a lack of evidence on the part of the victim, or a lack of an ability to corroborate a story other than he-said/she-said.
 
2012-12-04 09:17:39 AM  

BronyMedic: Your argument basically boils down to "if there's no evidence a rape actually occured, it's a false report". That's an insane strawman. It's also the reason why so many rapes are unreported.


So it is your assertion that if a claim cannot be conclusively proven false through confession or evidence (as stated in the study you cited) then it is definitely true? Because otherwise, stating that "only 2-8% of men accused of rape are innocent" is a lie by your own data.

You provided the study. I'm just telling you what it says. I'm sorry if you don't like that.

What else you provided just now are insults, made up strawmen arguments, and those pithy debate school quotes that are so popular with the kids these days. Someone is arguing from emotion, and someone from fact. I'll let you sort that one out.
 
2012-12-04 09:17:53 AM  

BronyMedic: Your argument basically boils down to "if there's no evidence a rape actually occured, it's a false report". That's an insane strawman.


Yes, yes it certainly WAS an insane straw man, mr Medic. I'm surprised you admitted to it, though.
 
2012-12-04 09:18:08 AM  

aagrajag: When it's a weapon that can never be pointed at you, you may fail to realise how dangerous it is.


Even when you do, it tends to be abused.

Both the SS and the NKVD had problems in the 1930s with neighbors reporting each other for 'treasonous activity' over petty little neighborhood squabbles. It got the point that each agency had to start cracking down the abuse of the reporting system because they were getting swamped by false reports.

And that was a double-edged sword. Neither the NKVD or the SS were people with whom you'd want to fark, and an accusation could just as easily be made against you by one of your targets (it was truly a witch hunt) -- and people still did it! The blowback on a false rape accusation in the American legal system has little direct consequence for the false-reportee, and it can likely never be turned back on them.
 
2012-12-04 09:19:52 AM  
All the dumb men here who think that "rape culture" means "women are telling me that I like rape and I don't like rape and that's not FAIR!" are dumb.
 
2012-12-04 09:19:57 AM  

filter: This is exactly why I video all of my 'encounters.'


Doesn't actually matter. I've heard it honestly proposed that withdrawal of consent can occur after the fact.
 
2012-12-04 09:22:46 AM  

Dokushin: So it is your assertion that if a claim cannot be conclusively proven false through confession or evidence (as stated in the study you cited) then it is definitely true?


Now you're putting words in my mouth. Amazing how people resort to that on FARK.

If you have a study or analysis which disproves those numbers, then post it. Otherwise, all you're doing is arguing from personal incredulity that "You don't believe that."

What I said was, the study that was cited even goes so far to say that the "unfounded" number of 8%, the one you claim is so "often cited", without giving any supporting evidence to disprove it, does not mean false claims. It means that these are the cases that are either admittedly false, or that have nowhere near enough evidence to pursue as a criminal case.

Dokushin: Because otherwise, stating that "only 2-8% of men accused of rape are innocent" is a lie by your own data.


Would you quote where I've said that "only 2-8% of men accused of rape are innocent"? Because I don't think I have. I said the false rape rate is around 2-8% depending on which statistical study you take it from.

Another strawman.

Dokushin:
What else you provided just now are insults, made up strawmen arguments, and those pithy debate school quotes that are so popular with the kids these days. Someone is arguing from emotion, and someone from fact. I'll let you sort that one out.


Tu Quo quo, eh?

If you have facts to disprove what I've stated, then please, post them. Otherwise, the cry of "fearmongering" is laughable.
 
2012-12-04 09:24:22 AM  

Dafatone: All the dumb men here who think that "rape culture" means "women are telling me that I like rape and I don't like rape and that's not FAIR!" are dumb.


As are the women who refuse to even acknowledge the consequences of a false rape accusation even without a false. Conviction
 
2012-12-04 09:24:50 AM  

Dokushin: So it is your assertion that if a claim cannot be conclusively proven false through confession or evidence (as stated in the study you cited) then it is definitely true? Because otherwise, stating that "only 2-8% of men accused of rape are innocent" is a lie by your own data.

You provided the study. I'm just telling you what it says. I'm sorry if you don't like that.


This also particularly irked me. I never claimed it made them innocent. You did. You then tried to argue the position as something I was arguing from.

Dokushin: The 2-8 percent so oft cited is of cases in which they could prove, through confession or evidence, that the woman was lying. Citing that number as the only reports in which the man was innocent is literally saying that if the woman says rape, and there is zero evidence, that the man is still guilty.


cdn.bernardgoldberg.com
 
2012-12-04 09:25:23 AM  

BronyMedic: Now you're putting words in my mouth.


BronyMedic: I said the false rape rate is around 2-8% depending on which statistical study you take it from.


Everyone with a brain knows why I only quoted these two particular sentences. Obviously, you're clueless.
 
2012-12-04 09:26:40 AM  

Warlordtrooper: Dafatone: All the dumb men here who think that "rape culture" means "women are telling me that I like rape and I don't like rape and that's not FAIR!" are dumb.

As are the women who refuse to even acknowledge the consequences of a false rape accusation even without a false. Conviction


Oh yeah, because that's TOTALLY a thing. People are TOTALLY sitting there going "that never happens!" rather than bickering over exact percentages.
 
2012-12-04 09:28:20 AM  

untaken_name: BronyMedic: Now you're putting words in my mouth.

BronyMedic: I said the false rape rate is around 2-8% depending on which statistical study you take it from.

Everyone with a brain knows why I only quoted these two particular sentences. Obviously, you're clueless.


Which means I said that any unfounded allegation means that they're innocent, right?

people.virginia.edu
 
2012-12-04 09:29:54 AM  

ph0rk: aagrajag: I disagree; I think that the vast majority women would not knowingly make a false accusation of rape, but truly cannot understanding that the accusation alone is so powerful that it really isn't something to joke about. I think most women would be surprised to discover so.

I refuse to believe that "most women" would be such blithering idiots.

Any adult in the US who has an IQ above 70 knows a rape accusation is a nuclear option, second only to child molestation.

/I'm sure people joke about making that accusation, too.


If rape is nuclear, theb kid rape is the Death Star primary weapon
 
2012-12-04 09:32:24 AM  

I sound fat: signaljammer: Well, this man has been accused of things twice. Once was rape. The other was poor sexual performance. He should be able to put contrary testimony on the local news.

Well, really, she has no credibility. He is probably pretty good.


Rapists and murderers seem to be able to get dates but nobody wants a lousy lover.

Dafatone: All the dumb men here who think that "rape culture" means "women are telling me that I like rape and I don't like rape and that's not FAIR!" are dumb.


Oh for crissakes - why I read this sh*t with my coffee..
 
2012-12-04 09:34:07 AM  

BronyMedic: If you have facts to disprove what I've stated, then please, post them. Otherwise, the cry of "fearmongering" is laughable.


I'm so glad you asked

Here's a 1996 study. DNA evidence exonerated 25 percent of those who had been convicted -- that number excludes false, unfounded, baseless, or overturned accusations, which logically would have a higher false positive rate.

A quote from that study:
Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have "matched" or included the primary suspect.

Oh, and you complain of me putting words in your mouth? Seriously?
 
2012-12-04 09:34:24 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: ph0rk: aagrajag: I disagree; I think that the vast majority women would not knowingly make a false accusation of rape, but truly cannot understanding that the accusation alone is so powerful that it really isn't something to joke about. I think most women would be surprised to discover so.

I refuse to believe that "most women" would be such blithering idiots.

Any adult in the US who has an IQ above 70 knows a rape accusation is a nuclear option, second only to child molestation.

/I'm sure people joke about making that accusation, too.

If rape is nuclear, theb kid rape is the Death Star primary weapon


That's fairly accurate. If I recall, the Death Star needed time to get into position and warm up. Not just anyone would be in a position to deliberately destroy someone with this sort of accusation. Mostly ex-wives and unethical divorce lawyers.
 
2012-12-04 09:37:19 AM  

AbbeySomeone: Dafatone: All the dumb men here who think that "rape culture" means "women are telling me that I like rape and I don't like rape and that's not FAIR!" are dumb.

Oh for crissakes - why I read this sh*t with my coffee..


What? Is that sentiment not being expressed, constantly, throughout this thread?

There's a ton of people saying, "'Rape Culture' doesn't exist. Using that term means you're accusing me, a man, of supporting rape. And I don't!"

That's all over this thread. And it's dumb. You can argue about the existence of rape culture if you want. But interpreting it as "everyone in this country thinks rape is good" is just incorrect.
 
2012-12-04 09:37:28 AM  

gerbilpox: ingineervt: "A girl once told a bunch of people that I raped her because I turned her down for sex. She later admitted to lying, but it still followed me for years."

Is your name Joseph?

No, in his case she claimed God raped her.


He's talking about Old Testament Joseph, not New Testament Joseph.
 
2012-12-04 09:37:47 AM  

Dokushin: Here's a 1996 study. DNA evidence exonerated 25 percent of those who had been convicted -- that number excludes false, unfounded, baseless, or overturned accusations, which logically would have a higher false positive rate.


That is a pretty chilling statistic when you think about it.
 
2012-12-04 09:39:27 AM  

Dokushin: I'm so glad you asked

Here's a 1996 study. DNA evidence exonerated 25 percent of those who had been convicted -- that number excludes false, unfounded, baseless, or overturned accusations, which logically would have a higher false positive rate.


So you're telling me that those cases were all malicious false-rape accusations like the one in the article here? Not an example of shoddy police work and investigation, or cases where DNA testing became available when it wasn't at the time that they were tried and convicted?

There's a total and complete difference between a false allegation of rape, and putting the wrong person behind bars because of a lack of either proper testing, or the ability to test forensic evidence.

Dokushin: Oh, and you complain of me putting words in your mouth? Seriously?


Yes, yes I am. I quoted a statistic about unfounded and malicious rape accusations, and you ran with it by trying to claim I was saying those were the only cases where the accused was really innocent. That's American Thinker level derp right there.

Remember, you said this:

Dokushin: The 2-8 percent so oft cited is of cases in which they could prove, through confession or evidence, that the woman was lying. Citing that number as the only reports in which the man was innocent is literally saying that if the woman says rape, and there is zero evidence, that the man is still guilty.
 
2012-12-04 09:39:28 AM  

Waldo Pepper: Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.

Agreed


Cause that's how any other false accusation works?
 
2012-12-04 09:40:19 AM  
Meetme.com's stealth marketing is AMAZING.
 
2012-12-04 09:40:50 AM  

Dafatone: That's all over this thread. And it's dumb. You can argue about the existence of rape culture if you want. But interpreting it as "everyone in this country thinks rape is good" is just incorrect.


I don't know what straw man you're constructing but I'm arguing against this:

Exception Collection: But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape

 
2012-12-04 09:42:36 AM  

Serious Black: The problem is that people who try to make it seem like rape is a made-up issue love grabbing onto anecdotes like these and holding them up as the norm rather than the exception.


The problem, as I see it, is that the percentage of rape reports that are false are about the same percentage as who report an actual rape. We need a higher rape report rate, AND a lower false rape report rate. The first increasing would naturally tend to decrease the second.

This woman's ludicrous actions will end up harming many victims of domestic abuse.

Does this really meet the definition of 'domestic abuse'? While he wasn't a stranger anymore, I'm given the impression that they were still rather new to the relationship. It might affect the belief of the accuser for date rape, but DV is a different crime.

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Here's the thing, not all men are rapists; in fact, very few of them are.


A while back I did some research on the statistics - most rapists don't stop until they're caught, and due to already lousy rape reporting statistics, 'most' rapists will be able to do it often enough to become experienced at it. Going by wiki statistics for report rates, solve rates, and such, it takes something like 14-30 rapes before the average rapist gets caught. I've seen news articles that mention a rapist doing it hundreds of times.

Anyways, from my inexpert figuring you get between .1% and 1% of men being rapists. It's just that the average rapists violates over a dozen women. Best way, going by my figuring, to decrease the number of completed rapes per rapist? IF YOU'RE RAPED, REPORT IT. Odds are you're not the first, and if you don't report it, you are almost guaranteed to not be the last.

I've never stuck my dick in anyone who didn't either verbally ask for it or pull it out and do it themselves but I've been repeatedly denigrated as a potential rapist since I have a dick or told that I'm a supporter of rape culture because I'm not the loudest in the two minutes hate. Honestly, I'm getting pretty farking sick of it.

Pretty much.
 
2012-12-04 09:46:40 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Dafatone: That's all over this thread. And it's dumb. You can argue about the existence of rape culture if you want. But interpreting it as "everyone in this country thinks rape is good" is just incorrect.

I don't know what straw man you're constructing but I'm arguing against this:

Exception Collection: But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape


Strawman? Someone in this thread said "Not all men promote or condone rape. Not all men are compelled by their penises to achieve intercourse at any possible cost. Stop lumping me in with them." Which is exactly that.

Personally, I'll disagree with you on the rape culture part too. Name another crime that has people clamoring for false accusations to carry the same prison sentence as committing the crime. Look at all the instances of women being badgered when they try to file police reports. Look at how our culture differentiates between promiscuity in men and women. Look at how often women are blamed for having a lot of sex. Look at how many politicians try to redefine rape.

/False rape accusations are awful, and the people who make them intentionally are awful.
 
2012-12-04 09:47:35 AM  

BronyMedic: So you're telling me that those cases were all malicious false-rape accusations like the one in the article here? Not an example of shoddy police work and investigation, or cases where DNA testing became available when it wasn't at the time that they were tried and convicted?


You're moving the goal posts. They may not all have been malicious but they were clearly false accusations. At some point the accuser identified the accused meaning that in 25% of the cases where DNA evidence was reviewed, some guy had been pulled in off the street, put in a line up, a woman said "that is the man who raped me". Those men's lives were destroyed by the false assertion that they were rapists.
 
2012-12-04 09:48:29 AM  

BronyMedic: You're right. False reports happen all the time. It's just the evil Femnazi Liberal agenda trying to keep that quiet to make men suffer. Damn you libtard media! Damn you to Christian Hell with the diapers of Baby Jesus!


This wasn't putting words in someone's mouth?

BronyMedic: So you're telling me that those cases were all malicious false-rape accusations like the one in the article here? Not an example of shoddy police work and investigation, or cases where DNA testing became available when it wasn't at the time that they were tried and convicted?

There's a total and complete difference between a false allegation of rape, and putting the wrong person behind bars because of a lack of either proper testing, or the ability to test forensic evidence.


Why don't you describe to me the cases in the study you cited? In the article you provided (which was an adapted excerpt from a training module for "End Violence Against Women") the cases are not characterized. To claim that false convictions exceed false accusations is interesting, and I would like to hear more about it. You can keep the newsletter, though.

You're making a very childish argument about technicalities. The issue at hand is when wrongful rape accusations both take attention away from rightful accusations and completely destroy the lives of the people so wrongly accused. Your study spends most of its length discussing what a "false" report is and why they were the only ones considered (excluding baseless or inconclusive claims). Therefore, stating that their final range -- 2-8 percent -- is the only prevalence of wrongful accusation is almost aggressively missing the point.
 
2012-12-04 09:53:18 AM  

RobSeace: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Exception Collection: We have a culture that supports rape jokes

Really? I can't remember the last time I heard a good rape joke. Care to share one?

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]
/Just one scene of many good rape jokes throughout that movie...
//The best may be "people stampeded and cattle raped!"...

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 750x600]
[scrapetv.com image 384x494]
etc., etc...

Consult any random Fark thread for several hundred more good examples...


There are also tasteless jokes here about every damn thing under the sun, some of which are even worse.

(Queue outcry: "There's nothing worse than rape!" If you had a choice between being raped vs., for example, being tortured for weeks or having your loved ones murdered, which would you choose? STFU.)

Anyway, back to my point: jokes on Fark are no measure of what real-world actions are considered acceptable by our "culture" -- or even by Farkers themselves.

cdn.inquisitr.com
 
2012-12-04 09:53:47 AM  

Bathia_Mapes: The tag was originally "amusing", but that was changed. "Hero" tag might work if there was a notation at the end of the headline as to whom the tag was for.


Ask not for whom the tag tolls, it tolls for thee!
 
2012-12-04 09:54:06 AM  

Dafatone: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Dafatone: That's all over this thread. And it's dumb. You can argue about the existence of rape culture if you want. But interpreting it as "everyone in this country thinks rape is good" is just incorrect.

I don't know what straw man you're constructing but I'm arguing against this:

Exception Collection: But we do have a culture in this nation that fosters rape

Strawman? Someone in this thread said "Not all men promote or condone rape. Not all men are compelled by their penises to achieve intercourse at any possible cost. Stop lumping me in with them." Which is exactly that.

Personally, I'll disagree with you on the rape culture part too. Name another crime that has people clamoring for false accusations to carry the same prison sentence as committing the crime. Look at all the instances of women being badgered when they try to file police reports. Look at how our culture differentiates between promiscuity in men and women. Look at how often women are blamed for having a lot of sex. Look at how many politicians try to redefine rape.

/False rape accusations are awful, and the people who make them intentionally are awful.


Name another in which consent is the sole difference between a pleasant night for two people, and a violent assault. There is no other crime of which one can so simply and easily be accused, and so harshly punished, with no evidence but the word of the accuser. Even absent a trial, or conviction, the damage is massive to the accused's life. And, of course, the likelihood of negative consequences to an accuser found to be lying are all but non-existent. In many places, an accused's name can be immediately published, but not that of the accuser after things start to look dodgy.

Rape is a unique crime, but for more reasons than you think.
 
2012-12-04 09:57:24 AM  

gerbilpox: Anyway, back to my point: jokes on Fark are no measure of what real-world actions are considered acceptable by our "culture" -- or even by Farkers themselves.


Note: "Rape Culture" isn't necessarily "jokes and things said nationally that everyone is nodding their heads in agreement to." It's often more along the lines of "jokes and things said privately that people will often nod their heads in agreement to."

Fark, with its degree of anonymity, is actually in many ways a better place to see the real world.

Also, most importantly, "Rape Culture" does not mean people thinking rape is acceptable.
 
2012-12-04 10:00:57 AM  

Dafatone: Personally, I'll disagree with you on the rape culture part too. Name another crime that has people clamoring for false accusations to carry the same prison sentence as committing the crime. Look at all the instances of women being badgered when they try to file police reports. Look at how our culture differentiates between promiscuity in men and women. Look at how often women are blamed for having a lot of sex. Look at how many politicians try to redefine rape.


well, I would rather be wrongly accused of murder than rape. And rather of rape than child-rape.
And you're gonna be badgered by the police if you want to report a stolen bicycle too.
Exept for the GOP, that'not realy an argument
 
2012-12-04 10:01:07 AM  
BronyMedic


Dude, you are boring and annoying. Please stop.
 
2012-12-04 10:01:31 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: a movie released almost forty years ago (yeah let that sink in for a minute).


Yeah, but its humor is timeless! (You'd never get it made in today's environment, though...)

I guess fark counts as rape culture.

And, for the record, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with rape jokes... Or jokes about anything else for that matter... We humans joke about all manner of horrific tragedy... We make jokes about the Challenger explosion, about 9/11, about the farking Holocaust even! Jokes are a coping mechanism... We laugh about tragedy because the alternative is to cry... If you seriously contemplated all of the horrors of life, you'd either blow your farking brains out immediately or would go completely insane... Laughing at the horror is the only way to stay sane... And, no, jokes don't encourage or support the subjects they're joking about... "Blazing Saddles" isn't encouraging rape or supporing some kind of "rape culture" anymore than this:

3.bp.blogspot.com

is encouraging terrorism... It's just a farking joke... Laugh or you'll go mad...
 
2012-12-04 10:02:31 AM  

Dafatone: Personally, I'll disagree with you on the rape culture part too. Name another crime that has people clamoring for false accusations to carry the same prison sentence as committing the crime.


They're clamoring for it not because they don't care about rape but because the consequences of even being accused of rape is so damning and that women do falsely accuse men of rape.
 
2012-12-04 10:04:36 AM  

RobSeace: Monkeyhouse Zendo: a movie released almost forty years ago (yeah let that sink in for a minute).

Yeah, but its humor is timeless! (You'd never get it made in today's environment, though...)


I know. I was surprised at how long it had been when I looked up the release date and I remember thinking exactly the same thing the last time I watched it. There is no way that movie could ever be made again and we're poorer for it.
 
2012-12-04 10:07:11 AM  

gerbilpox: Anyway, back to my point: jokes on Fark are no measure of what real-world actions are considered acceptable by our "culture" -- or even by Farkers themselves.


Exactly... In fact, they're quite often measures of what we consider horrible and totally unacceptable... It's hard to make good jokes about pleasant stuff we all love... It's much easier to make jokes about horrible stuff we all hate...
 
2012-12-04 10:09:54 AM  

Dafatone: Also, most importantly, "Rape Culture" does not mean people thinking rape is acceptable.


Okay, define "rape culture". I checked wikipedia and their definition includes people thinking rape is acceptable.
 
2012-12-04 10:14:28 AM  
Man, if I had a nickel ...
 
2012-12-04 10:18:57 AM  
i.imgur.com
I'm thinking it was the Rusty Trombone turned Cleveland Steamer that pushed her over the edge, so have some sympathy for her.

/that's what her expression tells me, anyway
 
2012-12-04 10:20:37 AM  

gerbilpox: RobSeace: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Exception Collection: We have a culture that supports rape jokes

Really? I can't remember the last time I heard a good rape joke. Care to share one?

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]
/Just one scene of many good rape jokes throughout that movie...
//The best may be "people stampeded and cattle raped!"...

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 750x600]
[scrapetv.com image 384x494]
etc., etc...

Consult any random Fark thread for several hundred more good examples...

There are also tasteless jokes here about every damn thing under the sun, some of which are even worse.

(Queue outcry: "There's nothing worse than rape!" If you had a choice between being raped vs., for example, being tortured for weeks or having your loved ones murdered, which would you choose? STFU.)

Anyway, back to my point: jokes on Fark are no measure of what real-world actions are considered acceptable by our "culture" -- or even by Farkers themselves.

[cdn.inquisitr.com image 400x300]


This. Finally.
 
2012-12-04 10:22:29 AM  

Dokushin: BronyMedic: You're right. False reports happen all the time. It's just the evil Femnazi Liberal agenda trying to keep that quiet to make men suffer. Damn you libtard media! Damn you to Christian Hell with the diapers of Baby Jesus!

This wasn't putting words in someone's mouth?

BronyMedic: So you're telling me that those cases were all malicious false-rape accusations like the one in the article here? Not an example of shoddy police work and investigation, or cases where DNA testing became available when it wasn't at the time that they were tried and convicted?

There's a total and complete difference between a false allegation of rape, and putting the wrong person behind bars because of a lack of either proper testing, or the ability to test forensic evidence.

Why don't you describe to me the cases in the study you cited? In the article you provided (which was an adapted excerpt from a training module for "End Violence Against Women") the cases are not characterized. To claim that false convictions exceed false accusations is interesting, and I would like to hear more about it. You can keep the newsletter, though.

You're making a very childish argument about technicalities. The issue at hand is when wrongful rape accusations both take attention away from rightful accusations and completely destroy the lives of the people so wrongly accused. Your study spends most of its length discussing what a "false" report is and why they were the only ones considered (excluding baseless or inconclusive claims). Therefore, stating that their final range -- 2-8 percent -- is the only prevalence of wrongful accusation is almost aggressively missing the point.


Actually, the issue at hand is that I was talking about malicious false reports. That was what I addressed with the statistic, not "false convictions", which is what you're trying to lump this in with - which is quite ingenious as a tactic, by the way. Slimy, but ingenious. I do have to give you credit about that I was never talking about mistaken identification by witnesses or victims in lineups. Nor people who pled guilty when they were not. Nor people who because of prosecutorial incompetence/zealousy,

The studies I linked even addressed your question: They lump all unsubstantiated rape claims together. Unsubstantiated means either there was a lack of evidence to persue the charge, OR it was an admittedly false claim.

You're deliberately lumping in false accusation of rape done maliciously, with people who were wrongly convicted because of shoddy polcie work or evidence handling. Which is completely two different subjects.

The funny thing is, I agree with the second sentiment you have put forth: If there is ample forensic evidence that someone is innocent, they should go free. Or if there is forensic evidence that the accused suspect is NOT the rapist, then further scrutany should go towards the "victim" of the crime. But that's assuming that many rape cases have clear-cut forensic evidence to go on. Many don't. Rapists aren't stupid, despite being predators. They know how to avoid leaving evidence - especially the serials that don't get caught until they've had 20-30 victims.

Monkeyhouse Zendo: You're moving the goal posts.


Actually, no I'm not. You're talking about two different things, namely people who were maliciously falsely accused of rape, and people in 1996, when Forensic Science was JUST starting to use DNA evidence as a regular basis for rape conviction on a large scale basis - who were wrongfully convicted of rape due to misidentification, or due to other factors.
 
2012-12-04 10:24:15 AM  

Artisan Sandwich: gerbilpox: RobSeace: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Exception Collection: We have a culture that supports rape jokes

Really? I can't remember the last time I heard a good rape joke. Care to share one?

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]
/Just one scene of many good rape jokes throughout that movie...
//The best may be "people stampeded and cattle raped!"...

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 750x600]
[scrapetv.com image 384x494]
etc., etc...

Consult any random Fark thread for several hundred more good examples...

There are also tasteless jokes here about every damn thing under the sun, some of which are even worse.

(Queue outcry: "There's nothing worse than rape!" If you had a choice between being raped vs., for example, being tortured for weeks or having your loved ones murdered, which would you choose? STFU.)

Anyway, back to my point: jokes on Fark are no measure of what real-world actions are considered acceptable by our "culture" -- or even by Farkers themselves.

[cdn.inquisitr.com image 400x300]

This. Finally.


I'm willing to bet that a look at the FARK politics tab, or any Zimmernman thread lately, would tell you more about the people who post there than you think.

More than a few of the people you think are trolling in reality believe the tripe they post.
 
2012-12-04 10:28:08 AM  

wambu: [i.imgur.com image 153x156]
I'm thinking it was the Rusty Trombone turned Cleveland Steamer that pushed her over the edge, so have some sympathy for her.

/that's what her expression tells me, anyway


What her expression tells me is that her defense attorney is going to order up some genetic screening in the hopes of cooking up a good excuse.
 
2012-12-04 10:29:55 AM  

BronyMedic: Actually, no I'm not. You're talking about two different things, namely people who were maliciously falsely accused of rape, and people in 1996, when Forensic Science was JUST starting to use DNA evidence as a regular basis for rape conviction on a large scale basis - who were wrongfully convicted of rape due to misidentification, or due to other factors


Okay Kreskin, how do we differentiate between the malicious accusations and guys who just happened to look rapey?
 
2012-12-04 10:31:13 AM  

aagrajag: Name another in which consent is the sole difference between a pleasant night for two people, and a violent assault. There is no other crime of which one can so simply and easily be accused, and so harshly punished, with no evidence but the word of the accuser. Even absent a trial, or conviction, the damage is massive to the accused's life. And, of course, the likelihood of negative consequences to an accuser found to be lying are all but non-existent. In many places, an accused's name can be immediately published, but not that of the accuser after things start to look dodgy.

Rape is a unique crime, but for more reasons than you think.


Fraud, robbery, theft, burglary, kidnapping. Hell, consent even turns violent assault into a boxing match. On a related note, thank you for consenting to let me borrow your new car.
 
2012-12-04 10:32:03 AM  
I'm willing to bet that a look at the FARK politics tab, or any Zimmernman thread lately, would tell you more about the people who post there than you think.


If you believe comments on internet threads are truly indicitive of how people really are, then I suggest you try experiencing some life outside the internet.

/hint: it's not the same
 
2012-12-04 10:32:59 AM  
This woman is ridiculous. How can you accuse someone of such a crime? I hate it when women make false rape claims. It's simply heartbreaking.
 
2012-12-04 10:33:16 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: BronyMedic: Actually, no I'm not. You're talking about two different things, namely people who were maliciously falsely accused of rape, and people in 1996, when Forensic Science was JUST starting to use DNA evidence as a regular basis for rape conviction on a large scale basis - who were wrongfully convicted of rape due to misidentification, or due to other factors

Okay Kreskin, how do we differentiate between the malicious accusations and guys who just happened to look rapey?


Do you believe in the doctrine of "innocent until proven guilty" or are you one of those "guilty until they prove their innocence beyond a reasonable doubt" type authoritarians?
 
2012-12-04 10:33:26 AM  

Lorelle: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

This. I hate women who do this sort of thing.


She should be put in jail for the same amount of time that he would have gotten if convicted.
 
2012-12-04 10:35:08 AM  

Theaetetus: Hell, consent even turns violent assault into a boxing match.


And yet in some places BDSM sex is illegal.
 
2012-12-04 10:36:26 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: [wtvf.images.worldnow.com image 400x300]
I'd counter-accuse her of rape rather than admit to willingly bed her. Is, too, funny, Bathia.


She doesn't look like she's very happy with anything...
 
2012-12-04 10:37:34 AM  

Theaetetus: Do you believe in the doctrine of "innocent until proven guilty" or are you one of those "guilty until they prove their innocence beyond a reasonable doubt" type authoritarians?


I'm absolutely in the innocent until proven guilty camp which is why a 25% failure rate on DNA evidence vs convictions is so farking horrifying to me.

Don't be coy, make your point.
 
2012-12-04 10:38:18 AM  
This is why you should always film yourself having sex.
 
2012-12-04 10:39:04 AM  

namatad: Would also be sweet if he could sue her in civil court. Probably can.


That would require admitting in open court to having farked that... that thing.
 
2012-12-04 10:40:50 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Theaetetus: Do you believe in the doctrine of "innocent until proven guilty" or are you one of those "guilty until they prove their innocence beyond a reasonable doubt" type authoritarians?

I'm absolutely in the innocent until proven guilty camp which is why a 25% failure rate on DNA evidence vs convictions is so farking horrifying to me.

Don't be coy, make your point.


Good, I agree. Then to return to your original question:
Okay Kreskin, how do we differentiate between the malicious accusations and guys who just happened to look rapey?
We know someone is guilty of making a malicious accusation when we've prosecuted and convicted them of such, with guilt found beyond a reasonable doubt. Until then, they are innocent.
 
2012-12-04 10:41:40 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Okay Kreskin, how do we differentiate between the malicious accusations and guys who just happened to look rapey?


I know the first thing I do when I want to seriously address someone is accuse them of being a fraud.

Classy.

There's no real way TO differentiate between malicious false reporting, without having an admission of such that we know is uncoerced, and a false accusation based on misidentification or an unsubstantiated claim based on lack of evidence.

However, this is not 1996, and forensic evidence is increasingly used to rule out suspects in rape cases. It's also far cheaper to do so today, than it was then. The sad thing is that even now, most rape test kits go untested because of crime lab backlog.

The idea that just looking at someone can differentiate between them being a rapist, and them not is idiotic.

Pick the rapist out:

www.kentonline.co.uk

Or:

www.timesnews.net

The good news is we know that malicious false reporting, based on statistics, is relatively low compared with "legitimate" rape reporting, even if the claims cannot be substantiated.
 
2012-12-04 10:42:03 AM  

spiderpaz: Lorelle: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

This. I hate women who do this sort of thing.

She should be put in jail for the same amount of time that he would have gotten if convicted.


Tie her up and giver her over to the women of the tribe to do as they please.
 
2012-12-04 10:44:27 AM  

Xenomech: This is why you should always film yourself having sex.


I know you're joking but that is no protection against retraction of consent due to diminished capacity. I've even seen the argument put forward that women should be able to retract consent after the fact.
 
2012-12-04 10:44:34 AM  

HailRobonia: Theaetetus: Hell, consent even turns violent assault into a boxing match.

And yet in some places BDSM sex is illegal.


Ah yes. The "We're against big government unless it's in your bedroom, you naughty, naughty sodomites." approach to conservative moralism.
 
2012-12-04 10:45:46 AM  

gerbilpox: RobSeace: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Exception Collection: We have a culture that supports rape jokes

Really? I can't remember the last time I heard a good rape joke. Care to share one?

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]
/Just one scene of many good rape jokes throughout that movie...
//The best may be "people stampeded and cattle raped!"...

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 750x600]
[scrapetv.com image 384x494]
etc., etc...

Consult any random Fark thread for several hundred more good examples...

There are also tasteless jokes here about every damn thing under the sun, some of which are even worse.



Just go to any Kobe Bryant thread and you will find 50 different "you gonna get raped" pics.
 
2012-12-04 10:46:14 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Xenomech: This is why you should always film yourself having sex.

I know you're joking but that is no protection against retraction of consent due to diminished capacity. I've even seen the argument put forward that women should be able to retract consent after the fact.


That's idiotic neofeminist tripe, and deserves to be laughed at.

However, at any point during the act, your partner says no/safeword and you keep going, yeah. That's pretty rapey.
 
2012-12-04 10:46:31 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: BronyMedic: There is nothing amusing about this, at all. Not only did she ruin the life of a man who is innocent, by her own admission, she has furthered the rape culture which makes women unlikely to come forward and admit they were actually raped.

Rape culture?

Show me anywhere in the US where rape is not a crime. The total number of rapes has been steadily declining and the rapes per 100K persons has been dropping even faster. Also, we have problems with other crimes in the US but nowhere do I hear people talking about "theft culture" or "assault culture".


Any time someone uses "[Bad stuff] culture" it is time to ignore them. They aren't interested in doing anything other than using language to try and dominate you. At best it is troll language. Don't feed the troll.
 
2012-12-04 10:47:25 AM  
 
2012-12-04 10:48:16 AM  

BronyMedic: I know the first thing I do when I want to seriously address someone is accuse them of being a fraud.

Classy.


You fail at cultural references. I was pointing out that there is no way to distinguish between the two without psychic powers.
 
2012-12-04 10:48:39 AM  

BronyMedic: hasty ambush: Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches (about 25% according to The Innocense Project) about the only rape culture that really exists is women lying about it. Women have only themselves to blame if nobody believes them.

[i306.photobucket.com image 500x293]

Actually, the home office of the UK puts the number at about 3%. United States numbers vary from 2-8% of rape claims.


"Politically correct feminists claim false rape accusations are rare and account for only 2 percent of all reports. Men's rights sites point to research that places the rate as high as 41 percent. These are wildly disparate figures that cannot be reconciled."

"Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have "matched" or included the primary suspect."

"these percentages have remained constant for 7 years, and the National Institute of Justice's informal survey of private laboratories reveals a strikingly similar 26 percent exclusion rate."


"If the foregoing results can be extrapolated, then the rate of false reports is roughly between 20 (if DNA excludes an accused) to 40 percent (if inconclusive DNA is added). The relatively low estimate of 25 to 26 percent is probably accurate, especially since it is supported by other sources."

Link

Link
 
2012-12-04 10:48:43 AM  

BronyMedic: I'm willing to bet that a look at the FARK politics tab, or any Zimmernman thread lately, would tell you more about the people who post there than you think.

More than a few of the people you think are trolling in reality believe the tripe they post.


Yes, but there's a different between (believable) trolling and (obvious) joking... Trolls only work because they seem believable and you know some people really think that way and believe that crap... Jokes, if they're any good, are obviously not meant seriously, and not meant to reflect any real opinions you have on the subject matter... So, the people saying stuff like "Women who dress like a slut are asking to be raped!" might seriously believe that, and could indeed said to be encouraging some kind of "rape culture"; but, the people posting the 40 pound box of rape or making "Blazing Saddles" quips obviously don't, and aren't promoting or encouraging anything of the sort...
 
2012-12-04 10:50:45 AM  

Edymnion: We have people outright lying like this one did, man's life is still ruined.
We have people where both parties get drunk and she still cries rape (and yet somehow the guy never gets to charge rape for having sex while drunk).


Drunk women don't get to say no, right? Is that what you're inferring here?

Edymnion: Hell, as a guy these days you basically have to get a written statement of intent notarized by a public official just to protect yourself from this exact sort of thing happening, because the witch hunter that results from it is not going to give him a fair hearing. Since the actual sex rarely takes place in a public place with witnesses, its just her word vs. his on if it was consensual or not and no one ever gives the guy any weight in the matter. Burden of proof is *FAR* heavier for the man than the woman.


Uh, men are raped too, you know. They make up a large part of the "unreported" rapes, because the cutlure of the United States is such that men cannot be rape victims because they obviously want it all the time. Or, like so many FARK threads, they're met with calls of "Nice" and "Gee, wish I was that guy" when it DOES get reported. He should be glad he's getting some ass, really. That's the mentality.

It's just as shameful as telling a woman she was asking for it because she wore a skirt out.
 
2012-12-04 10:51:42 AM  

Warlordtrooper: So this is the thread where people suggest that a man falsely accused of rape should shut up and deal with the consequences of being falsely accused of rape because men don't matter

People who think false rape accusations are not a big deal are almost as sick as people like Todd akin.

/I will be falsely accused of being a rape apologist when I said no such thing
//rape is bad


The most infuriating thing is that we have feminists who have decided to pretend it's still the 1950s.

Has anyone stopped to consider what "rape culture" means? It means you have a culture where rape and sexual abuse are normal, toerated, and even acceptable.

How sick do you have to be to feel that the United States is a rape culture? In 2012, being accused of rape might as well be a conviction. I truly believe that's a huge motivator when we hear about cases like the Duke incident, to demand to know exactly how it wasn't rape: there's such a rush to establish guilt in such a case that nobody stops to realize that maybe the Duke case was something that started totally consensually and turned into something else when the guys got too into it. They were totally in the wrong to be in the situation to begin with, of course, I don't disagree there.

Yes, there are still idiots who believe in the "if you didn't want to be raped you shouldn't have worn that dress". But...we have some of the strictest laws against sexual abuse in the Western world. We have teenage couples in Southern states where the boys end up on an "offender list" because the parents of the girl can't accept that their little princess likes to have sex, and instead choose to believe that the boy took advantage of her.

And of course, this could lead to a conversation about how such laws undermine efforts to get real rape victims--people who were attacked, and might feel like their community will treat them like dirt, or dealing with the shame of having their bodies go through orgasm during the attack, and idiot cops who still see orgasm as enjoyment--to speak up.

You know what, fark it, Dawkins is right about Western feminists. They're busy whining about how men are abusing privilege by, er, drunkenly asking 'em out on the elevator, when women in the Middle East are executed for speaking out of turn, rape is a common way AIDS is transmitted in Africa, and parents drown infant daughters in China. Or hell, women right here who really have been raped, sometimes in their own home, violently, by an intruder, and get treated like dirt by idiots because they were raped. Naw...it's easier to just assume men are rapists, because statistics. It's totally different than guarding your purse when you see a black person. You totally don't enjoy any privilege whatsoever, because you have a vagina.

Yes, there's still work to be done, but I refuse to wallow in guilt because our culture at large refuses to be enlightened enough to see that I'm no better than the woman next to me or the black man down the street from me, and I see feminism as a force of negative change more than anything. I was raised to see people as people, not underprivileged, and to me "privilege" reeks of envy, which more easily leads to resentment than anything.

And I don't get the people who say they like being raped, and like raping, then get together to consensually rape. That's not rape, that's rough sex, idiots.

/rambling rant over
 
2012-12-04 10:52:56 AM  

gerbilpox: (Queue outcry: "There's nothing worse than rape!" If you had a choice between being raped vs., for example, being tortured for weeks or having your loved ones murdered, which would you choose? STFU.)


There are a hell of a lot of things worse than being raped. Like anything that results in death, being a vegetable, severe third degree burns over a significant part of the body, losing a limb, being blinded, torture...
 
2012-12-04 10:55:53 AM  

BronyMedic: That's idiotic neofeminist tripe, and deserves to be laughed at.


Hey, look at that, we agree on something. Now you know how I feel about rape culture.

And yet I've seen it honestly promoted under the argument that if the woman felt pressured in any way and was uncomfortable with saying 'no' at the time that they should be able to retract their consent later. Because date rape or something. In reality it's called regret and it's something everyone experiences at some point in their life.

However, at any point during the act, your partner says no/safeword and you keep going, yeah. That's pretty rapey.

Never argued otherwise but to be honest, the following exchange doesn't strike me as particularly rapey:

OMG I'm gonna cum!
NO!
 
2012-12-04 10:56:15 AM  

BronyMedic: Pick the rapist out:

[www.kentonline.co.uk image 220x275]

Or:

[www.timesnews.net image 315x238]

Or:

cache.gawker.com
 
2012-12-04 10:56:17 AM  
www.dudelol.com
 
2012-12-04 10:59:49 AM  

hasty ambush: BronyMedic: hasty ambush: Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches (about 25% according to The Innocense Project) about the only rape culture that really exists is women lying about it. Women have only themselves to blame if nobody believes them.

[i306.photobucket.com image 500x293]

Actually, the home office of the UK puts the number at about 3%. United States numbers vary from 2-8% of rape claims.

"Politically correct feminists claim false rape accusations are rare and account for only 2 percent of all reports. Men's rights sites point to research that places the rate as high as 41 percent. These are wildly disparate figures that cannot be reconciled."

"Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have "matched" or included the primary suspect."

"these percentages have remained constant for 7 years, and the National Institute of Justice's informal survey of private laboratories reveals a strikingly similar 26 percent exclusion rate."


"If the foregoing results can be extrapolated, then the rate of false reports is roughly between 20 (if DNA excludes an accused) to 40 percent (if inconclusive DNA is added). The relatively low estimate of 25 to 26 percent is probably accurate, especially since it is supported by other sources."

Link

Link


mychinaconnection.com

Two things:

1) Anything that claims they are opposed because of "politically correct feminism" is not a reliable source. It's politically biased bullshiat.
2) You're comparing two different things here. You're comparing people who have made malicious claims of rape against other men - like the woman in this article here - with people who were wrongly convicted due to poor corroboration of physical evidence or wrongful identification. In addition, you're quoting a study from 1996, when forensic science was first starting to widely test DNA in rape cases.
 
2012-12-04 11:01:28 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Xenomech: This is why you should always film yourself having sex.

I know you're joking but that is no protection against retraction of consent due to diminished capacity. I've even seen the argument put forward that women should be able to retract consent after the fact.


I've seen the argument put forward that lizard people and reverse vampires run the government. Let's talk about actual arguments with actual people endorsing them, rather than this passive voice "I"ve seen the argument put forward" bullshiat.
 
2012-12-04 11:07:32 AM  

Theaetetus: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Xenomech: This is why you should always film yourself having sex.

I know you're joking but that is no protection against retraction of consent due to diminished capacity. I've even seen the argument put forward that women should be able to retract consent after the fact.

I've seen the argument put forward that lizard people and reverse vampires run the government. Let's talk about actual arguments with actual people endorsing them, rather than this passive voice "I"ve seen the argument put forward" bullshiat.


Yeah, I have to argue against amorphous claims like rape culture but when I reference an argument that was put to me directly regarding consent and date rape, it's bullshiat. Got it. One set of rules for me. Another set of rules for you.
 
2012-12-04 11:08:06 AM  
The Campus Rape Myth. The reality: bogus statistics, feminist victimology, and university-approved sex toys

"The scarcity of reported sexual assaults means that the women who do report them must be treated like rare treasures. New York University's Wellness Exchange counsels people to "believe unconditionally" in sexual-assault charges because "only 2 percent of reported rapes are false reports" (a ubiquitous claim that dates from radical feminist Susan Brownmiller's 1975 tract Against Our Will). As Stuart Taylor and K. C. Johnson point out in their book Until Proven Innocent, however, the rate of false reports is at least 9 percent and probably closer to 50 percent. Just how powerful is the "believe unconditionally" credo? David Lisak, a University of Massachusetts psychology professor who lectures constantly on the antirape college circuit, acknowledged to a hall of Rutgers students this November that the "Duke case," in which a black stripper falsely accused three white Duke lacrosse players of rape in 2006, "has raised the issue of false allegations." But Lisak didn't want to talk about the Duke case, he said. "I don't know what happened at Duke. No one knows." Actually, we do know what happened at Duke: the prosecutor ignored clearly exculpatory evidence and alibis that cleared the defendants, and was later disbarred for his misconduct. But to the campus rape industry, a lying plaintiff remains a victim of the patriarchy, and the accused remain forever under suspicion."
 
2012-12-04 11:08:17 AM  

RobSeace: We humans joke about all manner of horrific tragedy... We make jokes about the Challenger explosion, about 9/11, about the farking Holocaust even!


i.imgur.com

But seriously, this is why I don't post on fark much anymore. Instead of snarky humor, it turns into an all out battle between idiots yelling "rape culture!" and "lying whores!"

Can't we all just get along and agree that having the community know that this man farked this beast of a woman is a much worse punishment than any the legal system might devise?
 
2012-12-04 11:08:45 AM  
I'm having trouble understanding what you are actualy arging over.
 
2012-12-04 11:09:35 AM  

theMightyRegeya: Has anyone stopped to consider what "rape culture" means? It means you have a culture where rape and sexual abuse are normal, toerated, and even acceptable.


Actually, it could also mean a culture where rape is divided into "forcible" or "violent" or "legitimate" or "rape-rape" rape that is condemned, and date/acquaintance rape, diminished capability rape, or other rape that is excused or minimized, with victims being blamed for the way they dress, where they were, whether they drank, etc. and a culture where it's considered not just acceptable, but encouraged, to talk about plying some honey with a few drinks to lower her inhibitions, or going around the bars looking for the drunkest girls to bang. A key is that those participating in rape culture don't actually view it as rape, which is the problem.
 
2012-12-04 11:10:49 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Theaetetus: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Xenomech: This is why you should always film yourself having sex.

I know you're joking but that is no protection against retraction of consent due to diminished capacity. I've even seen the argument put forward that women should be able to retract consent after the fact.

I've seen the argument put forward that lizard people and reverse vampires run the government. Let's talk about actual arguments with actual people endorsing them, rather than this passive voice "I"ve seen the argument put forward" bullshiat.

Yeah, I have to argue against amorphous claims like rape culture but when I reference an argument that was put to me directly regarding consent and date rape, it's bullshiat.


"It was told to me by this feminist, you don't know her, she's from Canada."

Got it. One set of rules for me. Another set of rules for you.

Not so. I'm not bringing up some strawman to fight.
 
2012-12-04 11:14:45 AM  

Elegy: But seriously, this is why I don't post on fark much anymore. Instead of snarky humor, it turns into an all out battle between idiots yelling "rape culture!" and "lying whores!"


This is why we need to revive the "whore culture" on FARK.
 
2012-12-04 11:15:54 AM  
This can't be right. When ladies say they've been raped, it's 100% true all the time, every time. No way would they lie!
 
2012-12-04 11:16:35 AM  

Theaetetus: "It was told to me by this feminist, you don't know her, she's from Canada."


Whatever. I apologize for not recording and publishing all my personal interactions over the past twenty years so you can determine the veracity of my claims.

Don't be coy, call me a liar and have done with it.
 
2012-12-04 11:18:31 AM  
If two people get drunk and have sex, is that rape?

And if so, who is the perpetrator and who is the victim?

By the logic of "diminished capacity," neither participant is competent to give consent, and sex without consent would seem to imply rape. Are they both victims and both rapists at the same time? Or is only the man guilty because he's a man? But then what if it's two men?

/questions
 
2012-12-04 11:19:03 AM  
Feel like I need to do a TL;DR on my last rambling comment, and an anecdote: For the people who say "rape culture" about the United States, I don't think it's rape culture, but rather ignorance. To me, rape culture would be like war-torn African nations, or the fictional land of Westeros, where women know that if their side loses the battle raging on their home territory, they're gonna get raped and everybody just sees it as part of the spoils of war. We have pretty strict laws against rape and other sexual assault. We don't tolerate rape and other sexual assault.

What we have here in the U.S. is ignorance, pure and simple. There's no need for a fancier, yet inaccurate, term. The policeman treats it as less serious because the woman had an orgasm? That's ignorance. Someone can't conceive of how consensual intercourse can turn into rape halfway through? Stupid. Ignorant.

As an anecdote, my mom used to be a secretary in a not-for-profit-run law office that specialized in representing low-income people. One of the lawyers took on a case representing a man with Downs who was sexually assaulted by a female caregiver. The lawyer came back laughing herself silly after the case was thrown out. All it took was presenting the evidence that the man had ejaculated in the woman's vagina. He wanted it, case closed, no thought given to whether the erection was involuntary, no thought put toward whether or not ejaculation would also be involuntary. I don't think it's ignorant of me to point out that her (lack of) defense might have been colored by her dislike of men, though her husband wasn't hit with the shock of that for a couple of years after that. Probably one of those women who thinks a man orgasms every single time he has sex, come to that; she wasn't terribly bright.
 
2012-12-04 11:20:19 AM  
Fark is being ruined by shrill, self-enlightened posers again. Better argue more on the internet guys, in case someone doesn't think you're really smart.
 
2012-12-04 11:22:10 AM  

Doc Daneeka: By the logic of "diminished capacity," neither participant is competent to give consent, and sex without consent would seem to imply rape. Are they both victims and both rapists at the same time? Or is only the man guilty because he's a man? But then what if it's two men?


I guess it depends on who you consider to have agency. Generally, the male is assumed to have agency and so responsibility falls on the man. For the man to claim rape in that case, he has to claim that woman has agency and he has none which runs counter to our cultural narrative.
 
2012-12-04 11:28:47 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Theaetetus: "It was told to me by this feminist, you don't know her, she's from Canada."

Whatever. I apologize for not recording and publishing all my personal interactions over the past twenty years so you can determine the veracity of my claims.

Don't be coy, call me a liar and have done with it.


Whether you're a liar or not is irrelevant, actually* - the point is that you're building a strawman argument that no one here agrees with or would defend. That's a fallacy that doesn't prove the truth of your argument, or support your position in the greater discussion that we're having about rape culture.

In short, if you want to stop derailing the conversation and debate things with people who are actually in this thread and really exist, then feel free. We can have a reasonable discussion like adults.
If all you want to do is to tell us about what some person who's not here allegedly said and that no one who is here would agree with, then I'm going to make fun of you for trolling.

*as well as unprovable. I bet I could find someone who believes lizard people and reverse vampires run the government, or that the 7 secret spices in KFC chicken include bone meal. Does that mean it's true? Does that mean it's relevant to our discussion? No.
 
2012-12-04 11:28:58 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: I guess it depends on who you consider to have agency. Generally, the male is assumed to have agency and so responsibility falls on the man.


What the hell does this mean?

Seems sexist to assume that a man is responsible for his actions while drunk but a woman is not.

Seems like unequal protection under the law.

And if what you say is true, what about cases in which two men get drunk and have sex? Or two women?
 
2012-12-04 11:30:15 AM  

BronyMedic: 1) Anything that claims they are opposed because of "politically correct feminism" is not a reliable source. It's politically biased bullshiat.


As oppose to the biases sources that claim a lower false accusation rate? The article also attributed a higher rate to "men's rights " groups and went onto say that the truth is between the two extremes. I will take the word of the Innocense project over feminists any day of the week.

It is obvious that the feminists are happy that any man be punished not neccesarily the guilty one.

2) You're comparing two different things here. You're comparing people who have made malicious claims of rape against other men - like the woman in this article here - with people who were wrongly convicted due to poor corroboration of physical evidence or wrongful identification. In addition, you're quoting a study from 1996, when forensic science was first starting to widely test DNA in rape cases.And you claim of a lower false claim rate comes forom similarly biased sources.

Wrongful ID or malicious ID still amounts to a false accusation against individual Imagine with advances in DNA identification since 96 how man of the inconclusive tests would change to exclude the accused.
We still have cases of men's conviction beign overturned with new DNA evidence even after beign positiviely ID'd by the victim.

Another Connecticut prison inmate who may have been wrongly convicted is enjoying a taste of freedom again. A judge ordered Hubert Thompson released early this week pending a decision on Thompson's petition for a new trial. His request stems from the discovery of DNA evidence that points a finger at another person in connection with the rape he was convicted of.

Thompson's case reflects the human element of the legal processes. He was first arrested in connection with an alleged 1994 sex crime and kidnapping. The victim reportedly picked his image out of a photo array. Despite lacking any usable DNA evidence at the time, Thompson was convicted in 1998 and sentenced to 12 years in prison
 
2012-12-04 11:33:41 AM  

Artisan Sandwich: Fark is being ruined by shrill, self-enlightened posers again. Better argue more on the internet guys, in case someone doesn't think you're really smart.


i.qkme.me

No deep conversation on the internet, people!

Theaetetus: I bet I could find someone who believes lizard people and reverse vampires run the government


download.lardlad.com

So, finally, we're in agreement then. The Rand Corporation, in a nefarious scheme with the saucer people, and backed up by the coveneant of the Reverse Vampires, are in a sinister plot to eliminate desert before bedtime.

We're through the looking glass, people.
 
2012-12-04 11:34:37 AM  

Doc Daneeka: If two people get drunk and have sex, is that rape?


Depends how drunk they were, and whether it was voluntary intoxication or not, and whether voluntary intoxication is considered intent. The statutes depend on the jurisdiction.

And if so, who is the perpetrator and who is the victim?

By the logic of "diminished capacity," neither participant is competent to give consent, and sex without consent would seem to imply rape. Are they both victims and both rapists at the same time? Or is only the man guilty because he's a man? But then what if it's two men?


Due to that bit about voluntary intoxication, it could be both. It depends on the statutes.

/questions

/answers
//also, you should put questions in quotes, since you're not really asking questions, you're "just asking questions". Be bold, telegraph your concern trolling.
 
2012-12-04 11:36:40 AM  

Doc Daneeka: And if what you say is true, what about cases in which two men get drunk and have sex? Or two women?


Then it's just plain hot, and it needs to be filmed!
 
2012-12-04 11:37:28 AM  

Doc Daneeka: What the hell does this mean?


Sorry, should have been clearer with how I was using "agency". Agency in this sense is the ability to act.

Seems sexist to assume that a man is responsible for his actions while drunk but a woman is not.

Exactly. The man is assumed to be responsible because he is assumed to act rather than be acted upon. And yes, it is a fundamentally unequal view of the world but one that is deeply inculcated into our society. The issues arising from the same sex domestic abuse scenarios make this clear, often ascribing agency to the participant with the more masculine attributes.
 
2012-12-04 11:38:08 AM  

BronyMedic: hasty ambush: BronyMedic: hasty ambush: Given the high rate of false rape reports by the biatches (about 25% according to The Innocense Project) about the only rape culture that really exists is women lying about it. Women have only themselves to blame if nobody believes them.

[i306.photobucket.com image 500x293]

Actually, the home office of the UK puts the number at about 3%. United States numbers vary from 2-8% of rape claims.

"Politically correct feminists claim false rape accusations are rare and account for only 2 percent of all reports. Men's rights sites point to research that places the rate as high as 41 percent. These are wildly disparate figures that cannot be reconciled."

"Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have "matched" or included the primary suspect."

"these percentages have remained constant for 7 years, and the National Institute of Justice's informal survey of private laboratories reveals a strikingly similar 26 percent exclusion rate."


"If the foregoing results can be extrapolated, then the rate of false reports is roughly between 20 (if DNA excludes an accused) to 40 percent (if inconclusive DNA is added). The relatively low estimate of 25 to 26 percent is probably accurate, especially since it is supported by other sources."

Link

Link

Two things:

1) Anything that claims they are opposed because of "politically correct feminism" is not a reliable source. It's politically biased bullshiat.
2) You're comparing two different things here. You're comparing people who have made malicious claims of rape against other men - like the woman in this article here - with people who were wrongly convicted due to poor corroboration of physical evidence or wrongful identification. In addition, you're quoting a study from 1996, when forensic science was first starting to widely test DNA in rape cases.


So now false accusations are bad only if the intent is malicious. That's an interesting position to assert.

The rate of forensic evidence exoneration has held steady since that study. Please stop trying to claim that a 16 year old study is somehow irrelevant due to its age and circumstances; especially when its results have held constant since that time.

And I'm going to try and restate Dokushin's point about the study you linked to so I might help you see just what it was before this devolved into an argument about malicious accusations vs false accusations.

If you accept the premise that the crime of rape goes unreported and that this means rape occurs more often than the amount tried and convicted, you accept that some crimes occur and the perpetrators "gets away with it."

If you take that stance, then surely you can see the logic in saying that not all malicious accusations of rape are found out and brought to justice. Some portion of those people exonerated by forensics are victims of this crime. Some portion of people not exonerated by forensics are also victims of this crime. To claim that only cases where false accusations of a malicious nature occur is when they are brought before a court of law (which is what I take your argument to be based on the study you provided and your particular defense of it) is myopic. It's just as myopic as people claiming rapes never go unreported.

It's good to critically think about studies because they all have limitations. People try and stretch them into situations where the study matches their worldview. That's why peer review is important. There doesn't seem to be much peer review for rape studies which makes this more difficult to discuss logically.

/I am not volunteering to be on the rape peer review board
 
2012-12-04 11:38:11 AM  
I'm going to assume TFA is accurate. In a larger sense, the guy might be getting off lucky. Being a `worthless' farker might well have prevented his hearing the far more common prevarication `I'm really sorry, hon, but I guess the pills weren't working. Aren't you excited, you're gonna be a daddy!' (look hard at that mugshot).

Now, there's a prison sentence for ya.

/hormones are extremely dangerous drugs (`she's crazy but, hey, it's just `casual'...)

/no technical excuse, at this late date, not to record all encounters for posterity/the law
 
2012-12-04 11:38:40 AM  

Theaetetus: Doc Daneeka: If two people get drunk and have sex, is that rape?

Depends how drunk they were, and whether it was voluntary intoxication or not, and whether voluntary intoxication is considered intent. The statutes depend on the jurisdiction.

And if so, who is the perpetrator and who is the victim?

By the logic of "diminished capacity," neither participant is competent to give consent, and sex without consent would seem to imply rape. Are they both victims and both rapists at the same time? Or is only the man guilty because he's a man? But then what if it's two men?

Due to that bit about voluntary intoxication, it could be both. It depends on the statutes.

/questions

/answers
//also, you should put questions in quotes, since you're not really asking questions, you're "just asking questions". Be bold, telegraph your concern trolling.


It was an honest question. People getting drunk and having sex is a fairly common occurrence. Seems like it would be good to know when it is rape and when it is not. Particularly in cases where both participants are drunk, which is probably one of the most common scenarios, but seems the most legally hazy.

You're awfully quick to accuse someone of trolling, btw.
 
2012-12-04 11:43:49 AM  

A Terrible Human: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Never argued otherwise but to be honest, the following exchange doesn't strike me as particularly rapey:

OMG I'm gonna cum!
NO!

You do know the body react involuntarily to shiat like that right? Like if I had an orgrasm during any of the sexual abuse I endured as a child doesn't mean I enjoyed it or wanted it.


I probably should have made it clearer that it was a conversation between two people. i.e.

Him: OMG, I'm gonna cum!
Her: No!

The joke is that she's not telling him no to sex but rather not to complete the act which runs counter to "continuing after she says no is pretty rapey" comment I was responding to. He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.
 
2012-12-04 11:43:58 AM  

RobSeace: r two women?

Then it's just plain hot, and it needs to be filmed!


Non-consensual girl-on-girl action seems like an unexplored genre of pornography.
 
2012-12-04 11:44:25 AM  
The sex was not that good...
t3.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-04 11:46:00 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Theaetetus: Doc Daneeka: If two people get drunk and have sex, is that rape?

Depends how drunk they were, and whether it was voluntary intoxication or not, and whether voluntary intoxication is considered intent. The statutes depend on the jurisdiction.

And if so, who is the perpetrator and who is the victim?

By the logic of "diminished capacity," neither participant is competent to give consent, and sex without consent would seem to imply rape. Are they both victims and both rapists at the same time? Or is only the man guilty because he's a man? But then what if it's two men?

Due to that bit about voluntary intoxication, it could be both. It depends on the statutes.

/questions

/answers
//also, you should put questions in quotes, since you're not really asking questions, you're "just asking questions". Be bold, telegraph your concern trolling.

It was an honest question. People getting drunk and having sex is a fairly common occurrence. Seems like it would be good to know when it is rape and when it is not. Particularly in cases where both participants are drunk, which is probably one of the most common scenarios, but seems the most legally hazy.


It depends on your jurisdiction's statutes.

You're awfully quick to accuse someone of trolling, btw.

If it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, is it probably a duck? I'm just asking questions, ducky.
 
2012-12-04 11:47:57 AM  

freewill: RobSeace: r two women?

Then it's just plain hot, and it needs to be filmed!

Non-consensual girl-on-girl action seems like an unexplored genre of pornography.


New to the Internet, huh?

Lesbian rape porn is pretty tame and common compared to some of the stuff out there.

//yeah, I need to stay off 4chan
 
2012-12-04 11:48:03 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.


If he's physically unable to comply, then he lacked the intent to commit rape, yes? Therefore, it's not rape, which is a crime that requires intent.
 
2012-12-04 11:48:06 AM  

Theaetetus: Doc Daneeka: Theaetetus: Doc Daneeka: If two people get drunk and have sex, is that rape?

Depends how drunk they were, and whether it was voluntary intoxication or not, and whether voluntary intoxication is considered intent. The statutes depend on the jurisdiction.

And if so, who is the perpetrator and who is the victim?

By the logic of "diminished capacity," neither participant is competent to give consent, and sex without consent would seem to imply rape. Are they both victims and both rapists at the same time? Or is only the man guilty because he's a man? But then what if it's two men?

Due to that bit about voluntary intoxication, it could be both. It depends on the statutes.

/questions

/answers
//also, you should put questions in quotes, since you're not really asking questions, you're "just asking questions". Be bold, telegraph your concern trolling.

It was an honest question. People getting drunk and having sex is a fairly common occurrence. Seems like it would be good to know when it is rape and when it is not. Particularly in cases where both participants are drunk, which is probably one of the most common scenarios, but seems the most legally hazy.

It depends on your jurisdiction's statutes.

You're awfully quick to accuse someone of trolling, btw.

If it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, is it probably a duck? I'm just asking questions, ducky.


You forgot your quotes.
 
2012-12-04 11:48:54 AM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
"Call it half cuddle, half rape."
 
2012-12-04 11:50:06 AM  

freewill: Non-consensual girl-on-girl action seems like an unexplored genre of pornography.


You're just not looking hard enough. Google "Ultimate surrender". Basically wrestling where the winner gets to do the loser. It's about as real as any other pro wrestling or porn.
 
2012-12-04 11:50:10 AM  

Exception Collection: Rape culture still exists...


Yeah but they haven't put out a new album in years
 
2012-12-04 11:51:19 AM  

Theaetetus: Monkeyhouse Zendo: He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.

If he's physically unable to comply, then he lacked the intent to commit rape, yes? Therefore, it's not rape, which is a crime that requires intent.


You're really not reading what I'm writing, are you?
 
2012-12-04 11:54:07 AM  

MOGGEE: "Call it half cuddle, half rape."


Crepe?
 
2012-12-04 11:56:40 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: MOGGEE: "Call it half cuddle, half rape."

Crepe?


If I could link to Will Ferrell being pinned to the table in Taladega Nights I would.

/I love crepes!
 
2012-12-04 11:58:30 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Theaetetus: Monkeyhouse Zendo: He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.

If he's physically unable to comply, then he lacked the intent to commit rape, yes? Therefore, it's not rape, which is a crime that requires intent.

You're really not reading what I'm writing, are you?


Give it up, man. I had to put that guy on ignore a long time ago, since he's pretty much always been a caricature of a feminist that even Rush Limbaugh himself would blush at creating; I got sick of knowing exactly what kind of crap he would post.

But he's 100% for-real. He's a zealot. You will never have a rational discussion with him on anything touching upon gender politics.

The sun rises in 5 hours, so I'm to bed. Cheers, all.
 
2012-12-04 12:00:38 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Theaetetus: Monkeyhouse Zendo: He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.

If he's physically unable to comply, then he lacked the intent to commit rape, yes? Therefore, it's not rape, which is a crime that requires intent.

You're really not reading what I'm writing, are you?


Yeah, I am:

Monkeyhouse Zendo: BronyMedic: However, at any point during the act, your partner says no/safeword and you keep going, yeah. That's pretty rapey.

Never argued otherwise but to be honest, the following exchange doesn't strike me as particularly rapey:

Him: OMG, I'm gonna cum!
Her: No!

The joke is that she's not telling him no to sex but rather not to complete the act which runs counter to "continuing after she says no is pretty rapey" comment I was responding to. He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.


Hence, my response. If your partner says no, and you're physically unable to comply - she said stop a half second before you ejaculate, you couldn't hear her say no, etc. - then you had no intent to commit rape.

I'm sorry, is there some other way to interpret your post?
 
2012-12-04 12:05:05 PM  

KingsleyZisou: So now false accusations are bad only if the intent is malicious. That's an interesting position to assert.


I never asserted that in the least. I said you're comparing two different issues.

There's a difference. If you're going to put words in my mouth, atleast try to quote me saying something along the lines of that.

KingsleyZisou: The rate of forensic evidence exoneration has held steady since that study. Please stop trying to claim that a 16 year old study is somehow irrelevant due to its age and circumstances; especially when its results have held constant since that time.


Exonerations in the United States by Crime, 1989 to 2012.

Out of 873 exonerations during the time period, 203 - or 23% of them were for adult rape. 84% of them were based on DNA evidence, rather than witness recanting. In addition, those being exonerated served, on average, 11.9 to 13 years in prison at the time of their exoneration, putting many of those convictions before the widespread use of DNA evidence.

This does not fit with the argument that "25% of Accused Rapists being exonerated" that was originally put forth.

KingsleyZisou: If you take that stance, then surely you can see the logic in saying that not all malicious accusations of rape are found out and brought to justice. Some portion of those people exonerated by forensics are victims of this crime. Some portion of people not exonerated by forensics are also victims of this crime. To claim that only cases where false accusations of a malicious nature occur is when they are brought before a court of law (which is what I take your argument to be based on the study you provided and your particular defense of it) is myopic. It's just as myopic as people claiming rapes never go unreported.


I never claimed that all malicious accusations are found out. And I never claimed that the ones who didn't means that they were gulity of rape in and of itsself. And we know that many rapes go unreported, it's not myopic to state that. The fact of the matter is that the system is incredibly hostile to rape victims, right down to cops discouraging victims of rape from reporting it.
 
2012-12-04 12:05:39 PM  

Theaetetus: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Theaetetus: Monkeyhouse Zendo: He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.

If he's physically unable to comply, then he lacked the intent to commit rape, yes? Therefore, it's not rape, which is a crime that requires intent.

You're really not reading what I'm writing, are you?

Yeah, I am:
Monkeyhouse Zendo: BronyMedic: However, at any point during the act, your partner says no/safeword and you keep going, yeah. That's pretty rapey.

Never argued otherwise but to be honest, the following exchange doesn't strike me as particularly rapey:

Him: OMG, I'm gonna cum!
Her: No!

The joke is that she's not telling him no to sex but rather not to complete the act which runs counter to "continuing after she says no is pretty rapey" comment I was responding to. He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.

Hence, my response. If your partner says no, and you're physically unable to comply - she said stop a half second before you ejaculate, you couldn't hear her say no, etc. - then you had no intent to commit rape.

I'm sorry, is there some other way to interpret your post?


Well this is just a shot in the dark here but you could assume it was consensual sex and she would be disappointed that it was about to end. Likely without her climaxing before he does.

/you know, like a joke
//who's trolling now?
 
2012-12-04 12:06:16 PM  
i1172.photobucket.com

i came for the rape hysteria. leaving satisfied.

anyone remember the article a while back about the guy who was accused of rape by his ex wife and then it turned out to be an elaborate plot to take away his visitation rights with his kids. women can be extremely violent and sadistic, except it doesnt look that way because they commit their crimes by proxy.
 
2012-12-04 12:06:25 PM  

Theaetetus: Hence, my response. If your partner says no, and you're physically unable to comply - she said stop a half second before you ejaculate, you couldn't hear her say no, etc. - then you had no intent to commit rape.

I'm sorry, is there some other way to interpret your post?


Yes, as a humorous response. I can see where you might be confused.

/that means I think you're humorless
 
2012-12-04 12:07:08 PM  
Personal bet man lost beer goggle in the morning and she was hurt and offended.
 
2012-12-04 12:07:24 PM  

Theaetetus: Doc Daneeka: Theaetetus: Doc Daneeka: If two people get drunk and have sex, is that rape?

Depends how drunk they were, and whether it was voluntary intoxication or not, and whether voluntary intoxication is considered intent. The statutes depend on the jurisdiction.

And if so, who is the perpetrator and who is the victim?

By the logic of "diminished capacity," neither participant is competent to give consent, and sex without consent would seem to imply rape. Are they both victims and both rapists at the same time? Or is only the man guilty because he's a man? But then what if it's two men?

Due to that bit about voluntary intoxication, it could be both. It depends on the statutes.

/questions

/answers
//also, you should put questions in quotes, since you're not really asking questions, you're "just asking questions". Be bold, telegraph your concern trolling.

It was an honest question. People getting drunk and having sex is a fairly common occurrence. Seems like it would be good to know when it is rape and when it is not. Particularly in cases where both participants are drunk, which is probably one of the most common scenarios, but seems the most legally hazy.

It depends on your jurisdiction's statutes.

You're awfully quick to accuse someone of trolling, btw.

If it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, is it probably a duck? I'm just asking questions, ducky.


Good lord. I've been a regular poster on Fark since 2004, and I think this is the first time I've ever been called a troll.

I ask an honest question about a common but legally-murky scenario and you give me a brush-off non-answer and accuse me of being a troll. Twice.

Someone's getting Farkied as "self-righteous condescending asshat."
 
2012-12-04 12:08:22 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
Nailed what to the table?
 
2012-12-04 12:09:54 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: anyone remember the article a while back about the guy who was accused of rape by his ex wife and then it turned out to be an elaborate plot to take away his visitation rights with his kids. women can be extremely violent and sadistic, except it doesnt look that way because they commit their crimes by proxy.


Reminds me of a quote that popped up on my facebook feed the other day:

"Anybody who thinks the world would be a better place if it were run by women doesn't remember high school." - Madeline Albright
 
2012-12-04 12:10:16 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Good lord. I've been a regular poster on Fark since 2004, and I think this is the first time I've ever been called a troll.


That's okay. I've been here since 2004 on another name, and I still get called a troll.
 
2012-12-04 12:10:41 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Good lord. I've been a regular poster on Fark since 2004, and I think this is the first time I've ever been called a troll.


Bullshiat. I've called you a troll before.

I ask an honest question about a common but legally-murky scenario and you give me a brush-off non-answer and accuse me of being a troll. Twice.

Actually, I answered it quite specifically, as well as explaining why it wouldn't be legally murky. It has to do with whether that statute reads voluntary intoxication as intent. Some do, some don't. In the ones that do, it could be rape. In the ones that don't, it's not. It depends on the wording of the specific laws.
That's not a brush off, that is the answer. If you like something more specific, name a state.

Someone's getting Farkied as "self-righteous condescending asshat."

Someone's getting Farkied as "calls you an asshat when he gets an answer but doesn't like it".
 
2012-12-04 12:11:13 PM  
wtvf.images.worldnow.com

I'd say she didn't enjoy it, what with that bag over her head and all.
 
2012-12-04 12:11:35 PM  

Theaetetus: whether that statute


/s/statute/state
 
2012-12-04 12:14:38 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: [i1172.photobucket.com image 640x512]

i came for the rape hysteria. leaving satisfied.


I forgot to mention, that's some pretty nice rope work.
 
2012-12-04 12:21:47 PM  

aagrajag: Lesbian rape porn is pretty tame and common compared to some of the stuff out there.


Well, I just found some new bookmarks.
 
2012-12-04 12:25:43 PM  

Theaetetus: Actually, I answered it quite specifically, as well as explaining why it wouldn't be legally murky. It has to do with whether that statute reads voluntary intoxication as intent. Some do, some don't. In the ones that do, it could be rape. In the ones that don't, it's not. It depends on the wording of the specific laws.
That's not a brush off, that is the answer. If you like something more specific, name a state.


No, you didn't answer my question, which pertained specifically to situations in which both participants are drunk. Let me spell it out for you more. In jurisdictions in which drunken sex can be considered intent and be prosecuted as rape, what happens when both participants are drunk? Are they both guilty of rape? Or both victims? Or is only the man guilty (and if so, how does the law consider responsibility in same-sex encounters)?

It's a goddamn simple question, and I find it annoying to be branded by you as a troll (three times now) simply for posing it.

Fark it, I don't know why I'm still even bothering.
 
2012-12-04 12:27:35 PM  

BronyMedic: Dokushin: Do you understand what you're saying? This very article we are discussing would not be a "false report" without her confession, even though it was false.

The 2-8 percent so oft cited is of cases in which they could prove, through confession or evidence, that the woman was lying. Citing that number as the only reports in which the man was innocent is literally saying that if the woman says rape, and there is zero evidence, that the man is still guilty.

More fearmongering, in other words.

You're right. False reports happen all the time. It's just the evil Femnazi Liberal agenda trying to keep that quiet to make men suffer. Damn you libtard media! Damn you to Christian Hell with the diapers of Baby Jesus!

Your argument basically boils down to "if there's no evidence a rape actually occured, it's a false report". That's an insane strawman. It's also the reason why so many rapes are unreported.


You're right. After reading this there's no way someone could think you claimed that the study you cited is the only reasonable measure of false reports.

If you keep having to tell people that they're "putting words in your mouth" at what point do you stop to consider that maybe you're a poor communicator?
 
2012-12-04 12:32:47 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Theaetetus: Actually, I answered it quite specifically, as well as explaining why it wouldn't be legally murky. It has to do with whether that statute reads voluntary intoxication as intent. Some do, some don't. In the ones that do, it could be rape. In the ones that don't, it's not. It depends on the wording of the specific laws.
That's not a brush off, that is the answer. If you like something more specific, name a state.

No, you didn't answer my question, which pertained specifically to situations in which both participants are drunk.


I answered it, and I will again, using my previous quote:
Let me spell it out for you more. In jurisdictions in which drunken sex can be considered intent and be prosecuted as rape, what happens when both participants are drunk? Are they both guilty of rape? Or both victims? Or is only the man guilty (and if so, how does the law consider responsibility in same-sex encounters)?

Prior answer: "Due to that bit about voluntary intoxication, it could be both. It depends on the statutes."
See? Now, to be even more specific, you didn't include the condition "in jurisdictions in which drunken sex can be considered intent and be prosecuted as rape" previously, which is why I had that "it depends on the statutes." Since you've now posed it as in a jurisdiction in which the statutes line up that way, then the answer is "both".

It's a goddamn simple question, and I find it annoying to be branded by you as a troll (three times now) simply for posing it.

I find it annoying that I have to answer the same goddamn simple question three times:
1. "Due to that bit about voluntary intoxication, it could be both. It depends on the statutes."
2. "It has to do with whether that statute reads voluntary intoxication as intent. Some do, some don't. In the ones that do, it could be rape."
And now this post.

Cripes. If you're going to complain about your question not being answered, maybe you should read the answers.
 
2012-12-04 12:36:54 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Exception Collection: Rape culture still exists

Not where I'm at. Everyone around here is pretty anti-rape.


Same. None of my friends are pro-rape. Prudes.
 
2012-12-04 12:40:25 PM  

Theaetetus: theMightyRegeya: Has anyone stopped to consider what "rape culture" means? It means you have a culture where rape and sexual abuse are normal, toerated, and even acceptable.

Actually, it could also mean a culture where rape is divided into "forcible" or "violent" or "legitimate" or "rape-rape" rape that is condemned, and date/acquaintance rape, diminished capability rape, or other rape that is excused or minimized, with victims being blamed for the way they dress, where they were, whether they drank, etc. and a culture where it's considered not just acceptable, but encouraged, to talk about plying some honey with a few drinks to lower her inhibitions, or going around the bars looking for the drunkest girls to bang. A key is that those participating in rape culture don't actually view it as rape, which is the problem.


And you believe we live in a culture where these attitudes are prevalent, accepted, and encouraged by a majority of people.
 
2012-12-04 12:40:33 PM  
Also, Daneeka, if you don't like the fact that I'm saying "could" rather than "is", it still depends on the state, and you haven't named one yet. Other factors that may apply are whether knowledge that the other person is impaired is required.
The point stands, though - jurisdictional differences will apply to both participants, and either both will be rapists or neither will, with the exception of a few very backwards states in the south which have rape statutes that explicitly require penile penetration. If you'd care to name a state rather than complaining that your question hasn't been definitively answered, then we can definitively answer it.
 
2012-12-04 12:40:42 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Theaetetus: Doc Daneeka: If two people get drunk and have sex, is that rape?

Depends how drunk they were, and whether it was voluntary intoxication or not, and whether voluntary intoxication is considered intent. The statutes depend on the jurisdiction.

And if so, who is the perpetrator and who is the victim?

By the logic of "diminished capacity," neither participant is competent to give consent, and sex without consent would seem to imply rape. Are they both victims and both rapists at the same time? Or is only the man guilty because he's a man? But then what if it's two men?

Due to that bit about voluntary intoxication, it could be both. It depends on the statutes.

/questions

/answers
//also, you should put questions in quotes, since you're not really asking questions, you're "just asking questions". Be bold, telegraph your concern trolling.

It was an honest question. People getting drunk and having sex is a fairly common occurrence. Seems like it would be good to know when it is rape and when it is not. Particularly in cases where both participants are drunk, which is probably one of the most common scenarios, but seems the most legally hazy.

You're awfully quick to accuse someone of trolling, btw.


I'm glad you asked because I've also wondered the same thing. It does seem odd that only 1 sex tends to be punished for it. I know plenty of guys (raises hands) who have had sex with women who they never would have had the women not bought shots. I assume this is different than when a guy does it to a woman, but I'm not totally sure why.
 
2012-12-04 12:42:26 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Dafatone: Also, most importantly, "Rape Culture" does not mean people thinking rape is acceptable.

Okay, define "rape culture". I checked wikipedia and their definition includes people thinking rape is acceptable.


Sure, the definition includes that. It includes other things too.

Basically, it's the idea that our culture puts forth a set of ideas and beliefs that make rape more likely, more accepted, and make it harder for women to get treatment and come forward after rape.

The whole slew of people going "ugh shut up you pseudo-intellectuals, we wanna joke about how ugly this chick is" is part of the problem. The people who don't want to discuss this are part of the problem. People who have a kneejerk reaction to anything they perceive as "feminism" are also part of the problem.

/Man. That is not a good looking woman.
 
2012-12-04 12:44:17 PM  

theMightyRegeya: Theaetetus: theMightyRegeya: Has anyone stopped to consider what "rape culture" means? It means you have a culture where rape and sexual abuse are normal, toerated, and even acceptable.

Actually, it could also mean a culture where rape is divided into "forcible" or "violent" or "legitimate" or "rape-rape" rape that is condemned, and date/acquaintance rape, diminished capability rape, or other rape that is excused or minimized, with victims being blamed for the way they dress, where they were, whether they drank, etc. and a culture where it's considered not just acceptable, but encouraged, to talk about plying some honey with a few drinks to lower her inhibitions, or going around the bars looking for the drunkest girls to bang. A key is that those participating in rape culture don't actually view it as rape, which is the problem.

And you believe we live in a culture where these attitudes are prevalent, accepted, and encouraged by a majority of people.


See, e.g. Whoopi Goldberg, Todd Akin, Rush Limbaugh, Steve King, Roger Rivard, etc.
 
2012-12-04 12:45:18 PM  

fredbox: Exception Collection:Rape culture

ks1415:Rape culture

Seriously, how do you two even leave the house? We live in rape culture, murder culture, auto theft culture, starting wars under false pretenses culture, cheating on tax return culture.

Not all men promote or condone rape. Not all men are compelled by their penises to achieve intercourse at any possible cost. Stop lumping me in with them. I also don't steal cars, murder, start wars, cheat on my taxes (though my last audit turned up a couple math errors and a relative lack of understanding of how in the hell I was really supposed to do depreciation, so you got me there.)

Jesus.


You don't get it. A woman filing a false report is only representative of that woman. A man who is unconvinced of the validity of a rape accusation represents all men and all rape accusations. I hope that clears things up.
 
2012-12-04 12:50:03 PM  

LL316: I'm glad you asked because I've also wondered the same thing. It does seem odd that only 1 sex tends to be punished for it. I know plenty of guys (raises hands) who have had sex with women who they never would have had the women not bought shots. I assume this is different than when a guy does it to a woman, but I'm not totally sure why.


There are several factors. First, a few states have gender-discriminatory statutes regarding this. They're probably unconstitutional, and are just waiting for someone to file a suit.
Second and more importantly, it's not just "have you been drinking," but are you so drunk that you are physically incapacitated and unable to consent. Typically, a guy in this state is unlikely to be able to get it up, so it's somewhat self-limiting. That said, there are cases where the guy could engage in penetrative sex while incapacitated, as well as cases in which the guy is penetrated at which point a lack of erection is irrelevant. Point being that if you're farking someone rather than being farked, it's going to be tougher to show that you were incapacitated.
 
2012-12-04 12:51:50 PM  

Theaetetus: See, e.g. Whoopi Goldberg, Todd Akin, Rush Limbaugh, Steve King, Roger Rivard, etc.


I think the reason this gets shat all over is because of the language used, which is usually along the lines of "we have a culture of rape" or "our rape culture".

It would be more appropriate to talk about a rape subculture in which some people participate.

I don't know about your circle, but I didn't know anybody who voiced agreement with either Whoopi Goldberg or Todd Akin. If anything, they became pariahs at that moment. I won't speak to the other situations because, frankly, I wasn't paying attention, but I think that we, collectively, do not have anything that can be described as a "rape culture". Some circles in our society certainly do, and those people are generally not welcome among the rest of us once they out themselves.
 
2012-12-04 12:55:10 PM  

Theaetetus:
See, e.g. Whoopi Goldberg, Todd Akin, Rush Limbaugh, Steve King, Roger Rivard, etc.


www.graffitiwithpunctuation.net

and we're done here.
 
2012-12-04 12:57:20 PM  

theMightyRegeya: Theaetetus:
See, e.g. Whoopi Goldberg, Todd Akin, Rush Limbaugh, Steve King, Roger Rivard, etc.

[www.graffitiwithpunctuation.net image 814x500]

and we're done here.


Ah, no true scotsman. Got it. I guess we are done here.
 
2012-12-04 01:07:33 PM  
This is the thread where Men's Rights Activists hold up this single case as absolute proof that all women are liars and whores, correct?
 
2012-12-04 01:11:16 PM  
The My Little Pony Killer Smartest
Funniest
2012-12-04 01:07:33 PM


This is the thread where Men's Rights Activists hold up this single case as absolute proof that all women are liars and whores, correct?


No, it's the thread that gets raped by by people with their panties in a wad about vague societal attitudes and "cultures".
 
2012-12-04 01:22:26 PM  

Befuddled: She should at least have to pay for a billboard to be put up in her home town, with her name and face on it, saying that she lied about being raped and that billboard has to stay up for at least three years.


this would be a good start
 
2012-12-04 01:35:17 PM  
hint women: stop fighting rape is not rape if u don't fight
 
2012-12-04 01:39:56 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: This is the thread where Men's Rights Activists hold up this single case as absolute proof that all women are liars and whores, correct?


You're late. You missed the last 400 comments where they did just that.
 
2012-12-04 01:44:54 PM  

Pocket Ninja: A deliberately false claim of rape should result in a jail sentence for the accuser exactly equivalent to what the accused would have potentially served.


Normally, I'm behind you 100%, but this is a thread where I'm agreeing with randomjsa, so I'm gonna just accept this is Bizzaro Thread and call you out here. Did you ever think about what would happen to the rape victim if the trial was successful? Their family and friends would know they'd been raped, the victim would be called every type of slut imaginable and his\her whole life would be laid bare for a court...

It's hard to put yourself in the shoes of a victim, but it is very hard for them to come forward, because they're essentially taking their most personal nightmare (in any context, actually, not just rape--abuse victims have this problem too) and not only handing it to twelve strangers, but letting quite a lot of people comb it over looking for ways to blame them. And on some level, the victim very often believes it was their fault, that they did deserve it. That gets worse if the family or friends are blaming the victim, which can happen in rape cases..

Recanting is sometimes the lie, not the accusation. I don't know what TFA's situation is, because I don't know the woman (although yeah, it sounds plausible that she was just a dumbass liar). But claiming that recanting is in itself a crime is not only pretty much admitting you don't understand the POV of either party, it means you could be accidentally blaming someone whose only crime is to be very heavily damaged.

/This is why people scream bloody murder about rape culture. You might mean it as a joke, I don't know, but when someone with trauma hears that, their inner critic (psych term: it means a script running through their head that basically calls them every name under the sun and forces them to behave the way the truamatizer wanted) takes it and turns it up to eleven without joking. They've got enough problems coming forward. Adding to it doesn't help anyone.
 
2012-12-04 01:45:06 PM  

BronyMedic: The My Little Pony Killer: This is the thread where Men's Rights Activists hold up this single case as absolute proof that all women are liars and whores, correct?

You're late. You missed the last 400 comments where they did just that.


Plus about 20 who just whined about how "you dumb feminists are making it harder for me to joke about an ugly chick on the internet."
 
2012-12-04 01:51:13 PM  

PsiChick: But claiming that recanting is in itself a crime is not only pretty much admitting you don't understand the POV of either party, it means you could be accidentally blaming someone whose only crime is to be very heavily damaged.


The idea is that not just recanting, but DELIBERATELY making a false claim in order to get someone in trouble should be more harshly penalized.

I'm not really behind this idea, because a) it will still make it harder for victims to come forward, b) false claims area already a crime, and c) given what women filing reports already go through, this will just make things worse when a woman gets yelled at for not remembering EXACTLY what went on during a traumatic farking event.

It seems like everyone has a "I knew someone who falsely accused someone of rape and ruined their life" story, rather than hard evidence as to how common this is. There are numbers suggesting that rape convictions are often mistaken, and that victims often have issues identifying their assailant. Not much saying that a significant portion of clams are made up.

Meanwhile, there ARE numbers saying that a significant portion of women are raped. Like, a huge huge chunk.
 
2012-12-04 01:59:23 PM  

aagrajag: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Theaetetus: Monkeyhouse Zendo: He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.

If he's physically unable to comply, then he lacked the intent to commit rape, yes? Therefore, it's not rape, which is a crime that requires intent.

You're really not reading what I'm writing, are you?

Give it up, man. I had to put that guy on ignore a long time ago, since he's pretty much always been a caricature of a feminist that even Rush Limbaugh himself would blush at creating; I got sick of knowing exactly what kind of crap he would post.

But he's 100% for-real. He's a zealot. You will never have a rational discussion with him on anything touching upon gender politics.

The sun rises in 5 hours, so I'm to bed. Cheers, all.


I concur with this assessment. Unless you argue that "men bad, women good" with this fellow, you're better off talking to your cat.
 
2012-12-04 02:05:58 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: A Terrible Human: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Never argued otherwise but to be honest, the following exchange doesn't strike me as particularly rapey:

OMG I'm gonna cum!
NO!

You do know the body react involuntarily to shiat like that right? Like if I had an orgrasm during any of the sexual abuse I endured as a child doesn't mean I enjoyed it or wanted it.

I probably should have made it clearer that it was a conversation between two people. i.e.

Him: OMG, I'm gonna cum!
Her: No!

The joke is that she's not telling him no to sex but rather not to complete the act which runs counter to "continuing after she says no is pretty rapey" comment I was responding to. He might have every desire in the world to comply with her command but may be unable to do so.


Ooh, even more gender/sexuality stuff for me to get yelled at about on fark!

Whether or not a dude cums has damn near nothing to do with whether or not sex was had. Believe it or not. If you wanna get all psychoanalytical, you could say that this focus on the male orgasm as the "turning point" is pretty gender-biased.

Basically, this scenario has as much to do with "tricking" a guy into raping a woman as the woman yelling "no!" at any other point after he enters her.

Also, this doesn't happen.
 
2012-12-04 02:24:50 PM  

Exception Collection: AverageAmericanGuy: Exception Collection: Rape culture still exists

Not where I'm at. Everyone around here is pretty anti-rape.

Anti-rape, yes. Anti-things-that-support-rape, probably not. Victim blaming, ostracization of those that have been victimized, attacks on women as "sluts" while men that get laid often are "studs"... those are all part of rape culture.

/My god, I'm turning into a feminist.
//As long as I don't turn into a RadFem I think I'll be OK.


So, the double standard is now "rape culture"? Great, another bullshiat neologism.
 
2012-12-04 02:29:41 PM  

BronyMedic: Artisan Sandwich: Fark is being ruined by shrill, self-enlightened posers again. Better argue more on the internet guys, in case someone doesn't think you're really smart.

[i.qkme.me image 311x311]

No deep conversation on the internet, people!

Theaetetus: I bet I could find someone who believes lizard people and reverse vampires run the government

[download.lardlad.com image 320x240]

So, finally, we're in agreement then. The Rand Corporation, in a nefarious scheme with the saucer people, and backed up by the coveneant of the Reverse Vampires, are in a sinister plot to eliminate desert before bedtime.

We're through the looking glass, people.


I just remember lurking back in the days of fun, civil discourse. So yeah, I guess I am butthurt that you are ruining fark for me. You are not usually so bad, but today you are. And thus, my butt hurts.
 
2012-12-04 02:35:42 PM  

Artisan Sandwich: I just remember lurking back in the days of fun, civil discourse. So yeah, I guess I am butthurt that you are ruining fark for me. You are not usually so bad, but today you are. And thus, my butt hurts.


Could make it hurt a little more....
 
2012-12-04 02:39:39 PM  

BronyMedic: Artisan Sandwich: I just remember lurking back in the days of fun, civil discourse. So yeah, I guess I am butthurt that you are ruining fark for me. You are not usually so bad, but today you are. And thus, my butt hurts.

Could make it hurt a little more....


You know that I'm a lizard person right?
 
2012-12-04 02:55:42 PM  

serial_crusher: Bathia_Mapes: Nothing remotely amusing about this, submitter. Not only does this make it more difficult for women who have been sexually assaulted, but she false accused an innocent man of a crime that could have very well ruined his life had she not admitted lying.

Did mods change the tag or something? Cause I didn't see any amusement.

false rape accusations are no laughing matter, unless you're falsely accusing a clown of rape.


LowbrowDeluxe: Heh. I think my favorite of these stories was the one from Arizona from a few years back. Young woman filed a rape claim, no information on her attacker, police asked around and people told them she was a huge party girl and drama queen and they threatened her with everything under the sun till she recanted then filed for the same filing a false police report charge which she plead guilty to.

Couple years later, pretty much by absolute accident, they managed to catch a serial rapist. Turns out he took pictures of all his victims as he was torturing them. In the process of tracking down the identity of all the victims so they could press as many charges as they could, guess whose pictures were in there?


Well, there is a reason serial rapists prey on prostitutes and sluts: No one gives a shiat about them when bad shiat eventually does happen. They know the chances of investigation are low and of conviction miniscule. (A lot of cops see the pattern so frequently that they automatically assume rape victim = whore or slut, too. It's hard to get past prejudices when they're all that keeps you from snapping on the job.)
 
2012-12-04 03:21:31 PM  

BronyMedic: You're late. You missed the last 400 comments where they did just that.


Really? I can't recall reading a single comment where that happened. I can recall any number of comments by you where you took evidence that was offered to refute your mad rhetoric and you consistently ignored it. Nobody here is promoting 'rape culture' and no one here is defending actual rapists.

What people were doing was talking about was how rape accusations are false a f