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(ABC)   Republicans prepare a cunning plan to get off the fiscal cliff: vote "present" on the vote to extend middle class tax cuts while letting the top tier ones expire, then take America's credit rating hostage in January   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 478
    More: Asinine, Speaker Boehner, middle class tax cuts, GOP House, Blazing Saddles, Community Reinvestment Act, George Stephanopoulos, tax cuts, middle class  
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7387 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Dec 2012 at 4:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 12:36:57 PM
Grover Norquist would have a seizure.
 
2012-12-03 12:45:01 PM
In other words...give Obama what he wants?
 
2012-12-03 12:50:36 PM

Elvis_Bogart: In other words...give Obama what he wants?


Except for, you know, literally everything else involved in the sequestration.
 
2012-12-03 12:56:45 PM

abb3w: Grover Norquist would have a seizure.


I think that's the idea behind the whole "voting present" thing. That way, they can say with a straight face they didn't break Grover's precious pledge by voting FOR a tax increase.

Now the fact that it's INSANE that the GOP has to resort to that to appease an Un-elected figure who literally invented the pledge when he was an immature adosolcent boy, that's a whole 'nother discussion.

Still I do like how the GOP is more or less now openly admitting that they are practicing legeslative terrorism at this point

By doing this, Republicans avoid taking blame for tax increases on 98 percent of income tax payers. As one senior Republican in Congress told me, "You don't take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot."
 
2012-12-03 12:57:54 PM
Well get them in there to vote on it. Brilliant plan that can in no way backfire and make republicans look any douchier than they already look.
 
2012-12-03 01:06:59 PM
Obama, re-elected, with little to lose, has them by the short and curleys. It looks like they would rather piss off the majority of the American people than Grover. The Obama tax cuts are looking more likely.
 
2012-12-03 01:19:06 PM
Just stop welfare let the real unemployment rate appear +35% counting welfare adc ect. Next those of us who are armed will cull the populous. The survivors will inherit the left overs I'm up for it.
 
2012-12-03 01:22:27 PM

oldernell: Obama, re-elected, with little to lose, has them by the short and curleys. It looks like they would rather piss off the majority of the American people than Grover. The Obama tax cuts are looking more likely.


I really don't get it.

Norquist isn't a religious leader. He has no political base. Near as I can tell he's a guy who shows up on Meet the Press sometimes.

How exactly does he have this stranglehold on the GOP? Why does anyone care what he has to say?
 
2012-12-03 01:23:16 PM
I'm okay with this. Can they continue with this tactic for the next four years?
 
2012-12-03 01:30:31 PM
Obama's playing chess. The GOP is shoving "Candyland" pieces up their noses and intermittently screaming "CHECKMARK!"
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-03 01:33:31 PM

gilgigamesh: oldernell: Obama, re-elected, with little to lose, has them by the short and curleys. It looks like they would rather piss off the majority of the American people than Grover. The Obama tax cuts are looking more likely.

I really don't get it.

Norquist isn't a religious leader. He has no political base. Near as I can tell he's a guy who shows up on Meet the Press sometimes.

How exactly does he have this stranglehold on the GOP? Why does anyone care what he has to say?



Becau$se of the way he $ay$ it, just like any other lobyist.
 
2012-12-03 01:35:37 PM
I seem to recall these same people complaining about how voting "present" was the very essence of a lack of leadership.
 
2012-12-03 01:36:06 PM

Magorn: Now the fact that it's INSANE that the GOP has to resort to that to appease an Un-elected figure who literally invented the pledge when he was an immature adosolcent boy, that's a whole 'nother discussion.


I didn't say that Grover Norquist having a seizure would be a bad thing....

oldernell: It looks like they would rather piss off the majority of the American people than Grover.


The majority of the American people aren't likely to endorse and fund-raise for a primary challenger.

gilgigamesh: How exactly does he have this stranglehold on the GOP?


Because he was clever enough to get politicians to make a popular but shortsighted promise, and he's holding them accountable for keeping that promise.
 
2012-12-03 01:38:20 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Obama's playing chess. The GOP is shoving "Candyland" pieces up their noses and intermittently screaming "CHECKMARK!"


I fully endorse the cut of your jib.
 
2012-12-03 01:38:48 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Elvis_Bogart: In other words...give Obama what he wants?

Except for, you know, literally everything else involved in the sequestration.


True - and including big defense spending cuts.

I've got some Facebook friends who like to post political chain-messages about how the debt ceiling is like a credit card, and how we shouldn't raise it because enough is enough, etc etc.

I don't respond-- Facebook isn't for arguing politics (that's what Fark is for). But I'll have to check in on them and see how they're doing if the Republicans follow through with their threats, and force the US into default.
 
2012-12-03 01:46:47 PM

tallguywithglasseson: cameroncrazy1984: Elvis_Bogart: In other words...give Obama what he wants?

Except for, you know, literally everything else involved in the sequestration.

True - and including big defense spending cuts.

I've got some Facebook friends who like to post political chain-messages about how the debt ceiling is like a credit card, and how we shouldn't raise it because enough is enough, etc etc.

I don't respond-- Facebook isn't for arguing politics (that's what Fark is for). But I'll have to check in on them and see how they're doing if the Republicans follow through with their threats, and force the US into default.


They'll scream about how 0bummer forced us into Chapter Potato bankruptcy.
 
2012-12-03 01:48:59 PM
Who pulled the alt troll out of mothballs?
 
2012-12-03 01:49:16 PM

vpb: gilgigamesh: oldernell: Obama, re-elected, with little to lose, has them by the short and curleys. It looks like they would rather piss off the majority of the American people than Grover. The Obama tax cuts are looking more likely.

I really don't get it.

Norquist isn't a religious leader. He has no political base. Near as I can tell he's a guy who shows up on Meet the Press sometimes.

How exactly does he have this stranglehold on the GOP? Why does anyone care what he has to say?


Becau$se of the way he $ay$ it, just like any other lobyist.


Weirdly enough, even that's not true. The group he heads, the ATR, is an extremely MINOR player in the Washington money game. Which makes his power and control all the wierder. My money's on a large cache of photos he took with his phone at one of the GOPProud events he's known to be a regular at.
 
2012-12-03 01:49:36 PM

Magorn: I think that's the idea behind the whole "voting present" thing. That way, they can say with a straight face they didn't break Grover's precious pledge by voting FOR a tax increase.


Actually... while they might say it with a straight face, it appears that it wouldn't be accurate. Looking it up, the wording is
ONE, oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rates for individuals and/or businesses; and
TWO, oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates.
A vote of "present" would appear to constitute a failure to oppose, and thus a breach of the pledge. 

The House GOP is completely screwed.
 
2012-12-03 01:53:11 PM
I am glad to see that the Republicans have the backbone and integrity to stand up to Obama's ridiculous plan. Only an idiot thinks you can spend your way out of a spending problem. That's like trying to cure an alcoholic by giving him a case of booze.
 
2012-12-03 01:53:45 PM

abb3w: Grover Norquist would have a seizure.


that alone makes it worth doing....
 
2012-12-03 01:57:53 PM

Weaver95: abb3w: Grover Norquist would have a seizure.

that alone makes it worth doing....


Exactly. I can't imagine being against something if one of the consequences is "Grover chokes to death on his own tongue".
 
2012-12-03 01:58:02 PM
Correct my memory if wrong, please; but doesnt voting "present" basically mean that they are actually abstaining from the vote?
 
2012-12-03 01:58:13 PM
Well, there goes the neighborhood
 
2012-12-03 02:03:27 PM

BillCo: I am glad to see that the Republicans have the backbone and integrity to stand up to Obama's ridiculous plan.


Standing up to it by voting "present."

You are so goddamn lame.
 
2012-12-03 02:09:22 PM

cman: Correct my memory if wrong, please; but doesnt voting "present" basically mean that they are actually abstaining from the vote?


Yes, allowing it to be passed entirely on Dem votes rather than voting against it.
 
2012-12-03 02:15:20 PM

cman: Correct my memory if wrong, please; but doesnt voting "present" basically mean that they are actually abstaining from the vote?


If memory serves, this is what the Dems did in 2010 when the GOP put forward some crazy ass budget that basically cut everything (I think it was even more severe than Ryan's plan). The GOP then scrambled to vote 'no' for it at that point.

So ... yes.
 
2012-12-03 02:19:30 PM

cman: Correct my memory if wrong, please; but doesnt voting "present" basically mean that they are actually abstaining from the vote?


Yes, and we have been told repeatedly by the GOP since this became a "thing" in the 2008 campaign, that it is also a sign of low character, a lack or morals and decisiveness and that no self-respecting lawmaker would EVER stoop to so voting, unless they were a Kenyan-born Marxist
 
2012-12-03 02:20:49 PM

maxalt: Just stop welfare let the real unemployment rate appear +35% counting welfare adc ect. Next those of us who are armed will cull the populous. The survivors will inherit the left overs I'm up for it.


lol. 8/10. "populous" was a nice touch.
 
2012-12-03 02:23:29 PM

Nadie_AZ: cman: Correct my memory if wrong, please; but doesnt voting "present" basically mean that they are actually abstaining from the vote?

If memory serves, this is what the Dems did in 2010 when the GOP put forward some crazy ass budget that basically cut everything (I think it was even more severe than Ryan's plan). The GOP then scrambled to vote 'no' for it at that point.

So ... yes.


Yeah, that was funny because they had to vote against themselves.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-03 02:27:39 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-03 02:35:17 PM

Nadie_AZ: cman: Correct my memory if wrong, please; but doesnt voting "present" basically mean that they are actually abstaining from the vote?

If memory serves, this is what the Dems did in 2010 when the GOP put forward some crazy ass budget that basically cut everything (I think it was even more severe than Ryan's plan). The GOP then scrambled to vote 'no' for it at that point.

So ... yes.


That was an awesome move. I think it was Reid's move in the Senate. Showed the GOP was purely grandstanding.
 
2012-12-03 02:39:47 PM

vpb: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 170x200]


Ladies and Gnetleman the GOP's leading intellectual light and deep thinker:

Baldric Baldricson III of founder of the think tank, the American Institute for Cunning Plans
 
2012-12-03 02:43:53 PM
I honestly don't think it is a bad strategy. Not that I agree with them, but most of America probably doesn't understand the "fiscal cliff". What they will understand is a smaller paycheck, and they'll hold the GOP responsible I would think. That is the Democrats leverage right now. Take that away and the GOP has some leverage to push through some "entitlement reform" or some such non-sense.
 
2012-12-03 02:45:30 PM

BillCo: I am glad to see that the Republicans have the backbone and integrity to stand up to Obama's ridiculous plan. Only an idiot thinks you can spend your way out of a spending problem. That's like trying to cure an alcoholic by giving him a case of booze.


false equivalence fallacy. you got anything else you wanna try, or did you just want to cut and run?
 
2012-12-03 02:46:23 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Elvis_Bogart: In other words...give Obama what he wants?

Except for, you know, literally everything else involved in the sequestration.


This seems perfect though. Raise taxes on the top 2% or whatever, leave everyone else's taxes where they are, AND cut a whole lot of spending? Seems ideal.

What am I missing?
 
2012-12-03 02:48:46 PM

Weaver95: BillCo: I am glad to see that the Republicans have the backbone and integrity to stand up to Obama's ridiculous plan. Only an idiot thinks you can spend your way out of a spending problem. That's like trying to cure an alcoholic by giving him a case of booze.

false equivalence fallacy. you got anything else you wanna try, or did you just want to cut and run?


He's one of FARK's bravest poop and run "conservatives"

If you stupid libtards can't appreciate his wisdom dumps, you do not deserve to have more.
 
2012-12-03 02:55:55 PM

gilgigamesh: Norquist isn't a religious leader. He has no political base. Near as I can tell he's a guy who shows up on Meet the Press sometimes.

How exactly does he have this stranglehold on the GOP? Why does anyone care what he has to say?


Because Reagan.
 
2012-12-03 02:56:05 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Elvis_Bogart: In other words...give Obama what he wants?

Except for, you know, literally everything else involved in the sequestration.


Keep in mind that there would be a huge cut in the defense budget that I'm betting Republicans would be quite keen to restore. So, if the Republicans demur, the president will get part of what he wants and the Republicans will get, literally, NOTHING they want. In other words, they'd still be in the position of having to negotiate with Mr. Obama.
 
2012-12-03 03:05:32 PM

Three Crooked Squirrels: Nadie_AZ: cman: Correct my memory if wrong, please; but doesnt voting "present" basically mean that they are actually abstaining from the vote?

If memory serves, this is what the Dems did in 2010 when the GOP put forward some crazy ass budget that basically cut everything (I think it was even more severe than Ryan's plan). The GOP then scrambled to vote 'no' for it at that point.

So ... yes.

That was an awesome move. I think it was Reid's move in the Senate. Showed the GOP was purely grandstanding.


I thought Pelosi did that. Reid didn't have to let it on the floor.
 
2012-12-03 03:10:39 PM

GAT_00: I thought Pelosi did that. Reid didn't have to let it on the floor.


Could have been. Couldn't find a link.
 
2012-12-03 03:16:19 PM

Three Crooked Squirrels: GAT_00: I thought Pelosi did that. Reid didn't have to let it on the floor.

Could have been. Couldn't find a link.


Yeah, I think that was a Teahadist house bill that moderates had to kill. Linky poo.
 
2012-12-03 03:21:10 PM
I think Obama should sweeten the deal by offering the House Republicans a free month's access to the Tyson corporate chicken coops.
 
2012-12-03 03:23:54 PM
12/03/12 03:00 PM ET
House Republican leaders have made a counteroffer to President Obama in the fiscal cliff negotiations, proposing to cut $2.2 trillion with a combination of spending cuts, entitlement reforms and $800 billion in new tax revenue.

The leaders delivered the offer to the White House on Monday with a three-page letter signed by Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), and four other senior Republicans, including Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the party's just-defeated vice presidential nominee.

Republican officials said the offer was based on a proposal outlined by Erskine Bowles, the former chief of staff to President Bill Clinton, in testimony last year before the congressional "supercommittee" on deficit reduction.
 
2012-12-03 03:24:33 PM
By doing this, Republicans avoid taking blame for tax increases on 98 percent of income tax payers

STOP THINKING ABOUT RE-ELECTION AND DO YOUR G0DDAMN JOBS. FIX THE COUNTRY.
 
2012-12-03 03:29:29 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-03 03:32:01 PM

SlothB77: 12/03/12 03:00 PM ET
House Republican leaders have made a counteroffer to President Obama in the fiscal cliff negotiations, proposing to cut $2.2 trillion with a combination of spending cuts, entitlement reforms and $800 billion in new tax revenue.

The leaders delivered the offer to the White House on Monday with a three-page letter signed by Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), and four other senior Republicans, including Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the party's just-defeated vice presidential nominee.

Republican officials said the offer was based on a proposal outlined by Erskine Bowles, the former chief of staff to President Bill Clinton, in testimony last year before the congressional "supercommittee" on deficit reduction.


And have they explained yet where this magical $800M in reform is coming from? It isn't tax increases, it's the Romney plan of cutting deductions. Nobody has ever proved exactly what is going to be cut through. There's no details there, just vague references with numbers pulled out of his ass.
 
2012-12-03 03:34:00 PM
"You don't take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot."

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

Today's Republican party. "Hey America! Are you about a size 14?"
 
2012-12-03 03:34:45 PM

Somacandra: I think Obama should sweeten the deal by offering the House Republicans a free month's access to the Tyson corporate chicken coops.


Won't someone think about the poor chickens?
 
2012-12-03 03:43:39 PM

vernonFL: "You don't take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot."

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 172x193]

Today's Republican party. "Hey America! Are you about a size 14?"


Just glancing at that photo, I thought it was Andrew Breitbart.
 
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