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(Orange County Register)   We are Not facing the fiscal cliff because the rich are not paying their fair share. It's because you want too many freebies   (ocregister.com) divider line 505
    More: Unlikely, Mark Steyn, American Love, sissy, Charles Schumer, surrender monkeys, government expenditure, syndicated columnist, Party leaders of the United States Senate  
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3576 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Dec 2012 at 2:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 06:13:08 PM  

pciszek: eraser8: pciszek: eraser8: Here's the wealth distribution in the USA v. wealth distribution in Sweden (although, it's facetiously called "Equalden" in the chart):

Um, what do the colors represent? Without that information, this chart is very uninformative. The numbers are clearly the size of each pie slice, but what fraction of the US controls 84% of the wealth?

Yeah. It's not the greatest chart...but, as I wrote earlier, it comes straight from a paper written by Michael I. Norton of the Harvard Business School and Dan Ariely of Duke University (PDF). And, even there, it's not spectacular. In any case, according to the paper, "in the United States, the top wealth quintile owns 84% of the total wealth, the second highest 11%, and so on."

It still doesn't work. According to what you just said, the cyan must represent the top quintile and the off-white the next quintile. But the pie chart for Equalden shows the off-white pie piece twice as big as the cyan one. By definition, each quintile contains the same number of people. If the top quintile has 18% of the wealth and the next quintile has 36%, then each person in the second quintile is twice as wealthy as each person in the top quintile, in which case, they should be the top quintile. I will attempt to repeat the chart for easy reference:
[apt46.net image 615x396] 
In short, the fraction of the wealth controlled by each quintile must be greater than the fraction controlled by the quintile beneath it, and the top quintile must control at least 20% of the wealth, or the math doesn't work.


Dude, I already said it was a potato-chart.
 
2012-12-03 06:13:36 PM  

bradkanus: Maybe it's time for a consumption tax?


i.qkme.me
 
2012-12-03 06:17:06 PM  

skullkrusher: I think he meant a tax on people with tuberculosis. Incentivize people not to get it


Mediocre minds occasionally produce similar results...or something.
 
2012-12-03 06:17:51 PM  

beta_plus: Everyone who makes more money than me is racist and deserves to be taxed for all of their income and possessions. That's what fair means, you racist.

/This is what Fark Libs actually believe


Wow, and I thought all the gay drama queens would be liberal. Thanks, Mr. Boehner for personally visiting this thread.
 
2012-12-03 06:21:39 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Do you think Mitt Romney would've been in that same spot if his parents were some middle class family in Boston?


Mitt Romney is a cheap rich miserable little hustler who could squeeze a nickle until Jefferson chokes. He would have been a cheap rich miserable little hustler with or without his dad to start him along.

The guy learned early on that the best way to make money is to keep as much of dollar that goes through your fingers as you can, and then find ways to get as much money as possible to go through your fingers. Without his dad, he wouldn't have had as much money, but he'd still be a cheap taker bastard who leached off the real producers his whole life.
 
2012-12-03 06:21:54 PM  
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-03 06:29:47 PM  

Captain_Sunshine: urbangirl: Captain_Sunshine: So -

On the gripping hand, we have a cumulative failure of enjoying more government than we've paid for, for over the past thirty years. It's time to pay your bills, kids. Taxes need to go up for everybody, and stay there for a while. Or they'll have to go up even more later.

/Larry Niven is my co-pilot
//But Pournelle is my bombardier

How the hell did you get a bombadier? Will that be in my Obama gift basket?

The "gripping hand" reference is from a set of books by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. And Pournelle tends to be the more bombastic of the two.

And the "Obama gift basket" is pretty classless, really.


I've met both of these guys in LA at a book festival. They're kind of like geriatric Penn and Teller.
 
2012-12-03 06:29:51 PM  
bundlebit.com
 
2012-12-03 06:31:43 PM  

beta_plus: Everyone who makes more money than me is racist and deserves to be taxed for all of their income and possessions. That's what fair means, you racist.

/This is what Fark Libs actually believe


Man that strawman sure must be tasty. What do you put on it, A1 or Heinz 57?
 
2012-12-03 06:35:18 PM  
I was reading a Free Republic thread the other day and makers and takers. They were talking about what a bunch of parasites the 47% who don't pay income taxes are, and proposed mandatory military service as a solution.

Apparently it never occurred to them that there are veterans in that 47% because the job creators don't feel like hiring them.
 
2012-12-03 06:39:55 PM  

Fart_Machine: I've met both of these guys in LA at a book festival. They're kind of like geriatric Penn and Teller.


That's really funny.

Which is which?
 
2012-12-03 06:42:26 PM  
So in reading this thread my only question that comes up is how can I quit my job and get on this awesome welfare and food stamps and live my life happily?

I know I've looked at such benefits for friends but not being nearly destitute or pregnant makes it hard for benefits!
 
2012-12-03 06:43:34 PM  

bradkanus: You don't know enough about the tax system to be arguing with me about it.


Unfortunately, lack of knowledge has never stopped Corvus from arguing with anyone about anything. He wears his lack of knowledge like a badge of honor.
 
2012-12-03 06:48:35 PM  
did someone say freebies?

i134.photobucket.comheight="150"> 

drtfa
 
2012-12-03 06:49:51 PM  

firefly212: 80k tax breaks ^for dancing horses


Not actually true.
 
2012-12-03 06:52:10 PM  

sprawl15: firefly212: 80k tax breaks ^for dancing horses

Not actually true.


She's not going to fark you. What stake could you possibly have in defending her?
 
2012-12-03 06:55:43 PM  

whidbey: What stake could you possibly have in defending her?


The self respect that comes from opinions not based on lies.
 
2012-12-03 06:55:47 PM  

slayer199: That's the thing NEITHER side is talking about. Substantial reduction of spending. The Dems don't want to give up their social programs and the Republicans don't want to scale back on the military, Homeland Security or the War on Drugs.


They shouldn't have to. But keep pretending that both parties are the problem here, and not just the far-right nutcases in Congress--who happen to be Republican.
 
2012-12-03 07:00:15 PM  

sprawl15: whidbey: What stake could you possibly have in defending her?

The self respect that comes from opinions not based on lies.


What lies? It's an easy Google. You're very likely splitting hairs about something.

You're not going to deny that the Romneys took out a 78K deduction for their horse.
 
2012-12-03 07:00:39 PM  

bossuniversalAA: did someone say freebies?

[i134.photobucket.com image 250x150]height="150"> 

drtfa


Giving money to rich people creates jobs!

...or something
 
2012-12-03 07:01:40 PM  
Why do people insist on being willfully wrong about the horse tax thing jesus christ
 
2012-12-03 07:02:56 PM  

Jackson Herring: Why do people insist on being willfully wrong about the horse tax thing jesus christ


So they didn't claim the deduction?
 
2012-12-03 07:07:29 PM  

whidbey: You're not going to deny that the Romneys took out a 78K deduction for their horse.


Yes, I am. They didn't take a deduction, they declared it as an unallowable loss on a passive activity. That can only be counted against gains on passive activities, and not against general earnings. If Rafalca won $78k at a horse dancing competition, they could have written that off, but if they found a duffel bag with $78k in it on the way home they couldn't have written that off.

As it happens, they did actually apply some of that $78k against passive activity gains, letting them write off fifty dollars of income.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-03 07:25:49 PM  

joonyer: I think many people don't get mad at rich folks for doing it because the rich folks are contributing a lot more to society just by being rich than a poor person is. But of course, it's still a double standard. I get mad at both of them, too.


Most rich people make their money because of government services that helped them get rich.

I think some people are more superficial so they don't see the benefits that the rich get and pretend they don't get them.
 
2012-12-03 07:30:33 PM  
Cost of Iraq War to date: (over) $809,139,016,472 (costofwar.com)
Cost of Afghanistan War to date: (over) $590,141,342,791 (costofwar.com)
Cost of Plan D, the Medicare giveaway nobody asked George W. Bush, Jr. for: $1,000,000,000,000
ost to the U.S. Treasury from Tax Cuts for the Wealthiest Five Percent
First decade of Bush tax cuts, 2001 - 2010: $955 billion
Obama extension, 2011 - 2012: $229 billion
Proposed extension, 2013 - 2021: $2.02 trillion
Total cost, 2001 - 2021: $3.2 trillion

Total: over TRILLION. Enough to give the 99% who really create jobs and boost the economy a complete 100% tax holiday until the recession ends or Obama is booted out of office, which ever comes last.

Remember, the economy of the USA has been borne on the backs of the US consumer and taxpaper, not the super rich. The top 1000 US corporations have not made a single net job since before 1945. The US rich and corporations have not been the driving force of the economy--it is the wage and salary earnenrs who pulled the economy out of every recession, depression and slump in history. It is their work which makes all property and all income. It is their spending which drives the Consumer Society. Even though they pay disproportionately higher taxes (because capital gains are four times the salaries of the rich and taxed at a much lower rae, while corporate taxes are half of income taxes) these people, namely you and everybody you know, are America. The 400 SOBs (the 0.001%) and their families who own 25% of the wealth don't do a heck of a lot except collect passive income.

Republican rhetoric is not just Bullshiat. It is HITLERIAN BIG LIES.
 
2012-12-03 07:34:05 PM  
A couple of typos there. Sorry.

However, while I have a chance I point out that the tax cuts did not just go to the top 5% but almost entirely to the top 20%. Also, the numbers are in trillions, that these sums equal THE ENTIRE NATIONAL DEBT EVEN AFTER BUSH EXPLODED IT, and that consequently this number is so big that if dollars were electrons, you'd be zapped by it.
 
2012-12-03 07:37:29 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: We already have a more severely redistributive taxation system than Europe


True, but Europe's spending is also progressive. Imagine if the average American middle class family paid zero or near zero for healthcare. Imagine if the average middle class family paid zero or near zero for college tuition. Imagine all that money back into their pockets, and back into our economy driving up aggregate demand.


They are still paying for those services through taxation.
 
2012-12-03 07:38:39 PM  

sprawl15: whidbey: You're not going to deny that the Romneys took out a 78K deduction for their horse.

Yes, I am. They didn't take a deduction, they declared it as an unallowable loss on a passive activity.


whidbey: You're very likely splitting hairs about something.


Did I call that one or what?
 
2012-12-03 07:41:54 PM  

whidbey: Did I call that one or what?


hahaha holy shiat
 
2012-12-03 07:43:27 PM  

whidbey: sprawl15: whidbey: You're not going to deny that the Romneys took out a 78K deduction for their horse.

Yes, I am. They didn't take a deduction, they declared it as an unallowable loss on a passive activity.

whidbey: You're very likely splitting hairs about something.

Did I call that one or what?


Well done.
 
2012-12-03 07:43:57 PM  

reimanr06: They are still paying for those services through taxation.


Yes.
 
2012-12-03 07:44:50 PM  

whidbey: Did I call that one or what?


It's not splitting hairs one bit. It's not like "oh, this was a CREDIT, not a DEDUCTION, oh oh ho!" They literally gain zero direct benefit from declaring those losses. If they declared eleventy billion dollars spent on Raflca's favorite douche loofa's, they wouldn't save a penny on their taxes.
 
2012-12-03 07:46:28 PM  
Look man, an apple and an orange are the same. Stop splitting hairs
 
2012-12-03 07:51:14 PM  

PsiChick: Imagine if we did that here. And yes, it would mean the rich paid a hell of a lot more. But it would also mean the rich, like everyone else, would have a better quality of life, and America wouldn't be the embarrassment of civilized nations.


It really wouldn't though. Right now waiting lists and medical procedures that are naturally scarce (i.e. "I need a kidney" or "only one neurosurgeon who can perform the procedure") are only affordable by the super-rich, instead of making them wait in line like everyone else.
 
2012-12-03 07:55:15 PM  

sprawl15: whidbey: Did I call that one or what?

It's not splitting hairs one bit. It's not like "oh, this was a CREDIT, not a DEDUCTION, oh oh ho!" They literally gain zero direct benefit from declaring those losses. If they declared eleventy billion dollars spent on Raflca's favorite douche loofa's, they wouldn't save a penny on their taxes.


Not true,
"PALs not allowed in the current year are carried forward to following years until they are allowed either against passive activity income, allowed against the special allowance if applicable, or accounted when the taxpayer sells or exchanges the entire interest in the passive activity in a fully taxable transaction to an unrelated party."
https://www.taxbrain.com/kb/default.asp?a=177

Romney's tax lawyers didn't go through all that trouble to save $50.
 
2012-12-03 08:01:28 PM  

Tman144: Not true,


That's why I used the word 'direct', because declaring losses alone provides nothing.

Tman144: Romney's tax lawyers didn't go through all that trouble to save $50.


They didn't even mention Rob Rom in the 2011 tax returns, IIRC.
 
2012-12-03 08:03:07 PM  
We are Not facing the fiscal cliff because the rich are not paying their fair share. It's because you want too many freebies


yea, that's it. i'm that godamned stupid.
 
2012-12-03 08:04:21 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Mitt Romney pays half of what I pay. Maybe taxing that farker at my rate won't balance the budget, but it would be a start.



but he only pays half to counterbalance the fact that you get too many freebies. see how it works in Psychopath Land?
 
2012-12-03 08:08:22 PM  
Middle eastern guys running around in the desert yelling "death to america" are not my enemy. they are a nuisance and their capabilities are quite limited. they just got lucky on 9/11.

Republicans are my real enemy because the damage they do to this Nation would make any terrorist salivate with envy.
 
2012-12-03 08:11:04 PM  

udhq: Services to the poor and middle class="gifts"

Regressive tax breaks for the wealthy=tribute to job creators



yea, and they've been doing so very well these last 10 years. where are the jobs that they supposedly create?
 
2012-12-03 08:19:59 PM  

sprawl15: Tman144: Romney's tax lawyers didn't go through all that trouble to save $50.

They didn't even mention Rob Rom in the 2011 tax returns, IIRC.




Of course not, they knew they were going to let "you people" see that one. It will show up again, just not where we can see it. "Romney's tax lawyers didn't go through all that trouble to save $50." sums it up.
 
2012-12-03 08:33:33 PM  
Ah, the author uses bad statistics in order to make his argument for "severely redistributive."
 
2012-12-03 08:34:49 PM  

sweetmelissa31: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: Mitt Romney pays half of what I pay. Maybe taxing that farker at my rate won't balance the budget, but it would be a start.

I don't know for a fact. But I'm going to make a crazy guess and say Romney pays a hell of a lot more money than you do.

If he was a Real Patriotic American, he would get out of paying anything at all.


I can't wait to become a Real Patriotic American...
 
2012-12-03 08:37:04 PM  

Granny_Panties: I'm a Democrat and all of us are on welfare. I just completed a $20,000 renovation on my house with my welfare check. God bless Obama and his handouts. If it wasn't for mooching off Romney I would live in a cardboard box. Thank goodness Romney pays 1/2 the tax rate I do because I'm nothing but a leech.


You must be from Texas, no?
 
2012-12-03 08:43:54 PM  

doczoidberg: I just want to loot the system as much as possible before it collapses.

Is that so wrong?


Seriously. The game is fixed, the deck appears to be stacked. How can a middle or lower class earner hitch a ride? Thats what I want to know.
 
2012-12-03 08:52:28 PM  

whidbey: sprawl15: whidbey: What stake could you possibly have in defending her?

The self respect that comes from opinions not based on lies.

What lies? It's an easy Google. You're very likely splitting hairs about something.

You're not going to deny that the Romneys took out a 78K deduction for their horse.


Pardon, I rounded, I meant no deception by rounding 78k to 80k.
 
2012-12-03 08:54:32 PM  

Captain_Sunshine: Fart_Machine: I've met both of these guys in LA at a book festival. They're kind of like geriatric Penn and Teller.

That's really funny.

Which is which?


Niven said about two words and just nodded politely while Pournelle went on a tear about Stanislaw Lem, the whole SFWA debacle, and how he was a jerk (I have no idea how we got on that subject). Anyway I didn't want to be rude to the guy; it's like talking to your grandfather who just won't stop ranting and I didn't know how to break up the monologue. Finally some woman came up to the table and asked them to sign a used book which caused Pournelle to be distracted and complain about how they don't get royalties off the used book market but he couldn't begrudge the market for giving authors more exposure.

At that point I snuck away to where Jim Butcher was doing a signing.
 
2012-12-03 09:26:19 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Mitt Romney pays half of what I pay. Maybe taxing that farker at my rate won't balance the budget, but it would be a start.


Show us your tax forms, please. I bet you don't pay twice as much as Romney.
 
2012-12-03 09:31:19 PM  
Dear You People,

What do we care about "infrastructure"? We take private jets and helicopters. We have our own generators. We have better internet than you can possibly imagine. And we don't care if the rest of you become poor because it just reminds us of our lovely vacation home on that island where everyone is poor. Sure our compound is surrounded by barbed wire and paid guards, but that is just one of the signs of an exclusive compound. So, teachers, police, firemen, roads, potable water? Those are just freebies for the people we don't care about. I mean, if you were stupid enough to let us siphon trillions from your economy, do you really deserve something like electricity?

With lowest regards,

A certain type of wealthy person
 
2012-12-03 09:37:45 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: We already have a more severely redistributive taxation system than Europe, in which the wealthiest 20 percent of Americans pay 70 percent of income tax while the poorest 20 percent shoulder just three-fifths of 1 percent. By comparison, the Norwegian tax burden is relatively equitably distributed. Yet Obama now wishes "the rich" to pay their "fair share...

I'll make a deal with you, conservative writer.

If the income and wealth disparity in the U.S. reach the same levels as Norway, I'll support a Norwegian-style tax code.

Deal?


You can't make deals, you're a nobody. Go back to suckin' on your beansprout shake, while living your worthless life, and leave the deal makin' to people qualified to make deals.
 
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