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(Slate)   A guide to making yourself less creepy via body language   (slate.com) divider line 137
    More: PSA, John Jay College, Malcolm Gladwell, nonverbal communication, Neil Strauss, dating, habits  
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20945 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Dec 2012 at 11:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 03:20:47 PM  

dustygrimp: Repo Man: If you look at an attractive woman in a way that even slightly gives away the fact that you think she's pretty, and she thinks that you aren't anywhere close to being in her league (as in, she would find it insulting that you asked her out), you're creepy.

Ever notice that the ones that get offended like that are never more than 70% as attractive as they think they are? And the really pretty ones don't get offended? I was out to dinner with my wife on Friday and we were listening to the woman at the next table complain, at length, about the "trolls" that had been hitting on her. Finally, I needed to see this goddess that thought she deserved the Brad Pitts of the world. Had a face like chewed gum, her clothes were a size too small and her hair was in desperate need of a hot oil treatment.

I think too many people think "not fat=gorgeous."


Yup. I'm no Brad Pitt myself. I'm just an average looking guy. And yeah, I've caught sight of plenty of beautiful women over the years and had them notice me noticing them. Can't actually think of a single one that gave me any sort of disgusted look. To be honest, even though they are out of my league, a lot of them seem happy enough being noticed. After all, unless the guy is being creepy and oogling them, why wouldn't they enjoy a bit of quick attention? I think that beautiful girls get too much of a bad rap sometimes because they get more than their fair share of creepy guys spending 5 minutes staring at their ass as they walk by. So occasionally they react badly to it but after all, wouldn't we all?

I think that mostly the girls who do the whole 'ewww, he's totally gross and he totally just checked me out' are simply the ones who have real attitude problems and love drama. They love to be able to go on about it to raise their own self profile like how they are only reacting like that because they are so out of those guys leagues.
 
2012-12-03 03:24:06 PM  

star_topology: Don't lean into people when you talk to them.

/Did I cover it?


We had a temp at work like that. He violated peoples no fly zones big time. Worse yet he did it right at the beginning of the shift. Our shift starts at 10pm...no one is all happy and ready to go at 10pm. We really didnt need some dude we didnt really know getting 3 inches from our face and popping out "yo homie whats up?" as soon as we walked in the door.
 
2012-12-03 03:24:38 PM  

Tax Boy: Arkanaut: Tax Boy: [i1.kym-cdn.com image 519x390]

She looks like she puts out, but she also might bite.

[theatozofdating.files.wordpress.com image 420x315]



Biting is good.

/Bunnies are tasty.
 
2012-12-03 03:43:03 PM  

Nurglitch: I find eye-contact threatening.

Cool story time: I was at a conference for CFAs and the motivational speaker dude that was hired to speak suggested that men prefer to stand side by side when discussing things, and women preferred to stand opposite. So, as something of a party-game, he proposed that men try to speak to women face to face and women try to speak to men side by side. The result turned the conference hall into something of a dance floor, albeit one with no music except for the strange discussion that one gets in rooms full of CFAs and other financial types.

That was cool, right? Right?!


Worst. Story. Ever.
 
2012-12-03 03:45:07 PM  
You bring up a very valid point. And I can sympathize with women. I've seen loads of guys do what you said (They don't get a straight answer for the break up so they keep trying to preassure the woman into reconsidering). And I'm sure that plenty of women don't mean it when they say things like 'you're too short'. But I've talked to quite a few women over the years and being a tall guy myself, they don't feel the need to hold back about how they feel about short guys. Obviously I'm not talking about guys who are 5'8. But the guys who are 5'6 and below seem to have an uphill battle (no pun intended) when it comes to winning over some women's hearts.

Plus I've been on dating websites for a few months and I've seen quite a few profiles where the women outright say 'no guys shorter than me, sorry'. And sure, they have every right to do that if they want. It's their choice. Just seems silly to write of an entire group of people based on one factor. I like petite women but there's no way in hell I'm gonna rule out dating every woman above the height of 5'5 because I might miss out on someone really special.


Women do have a right to specify a minimum height in personal ads. What I find amusing is how horrified they would be if a man were to specify a minimum bra cup size in his ad. Of course, women mentioning the required height of men trying out for the position of boyfriend are so common that no one really thinks much of it. I've never read an ad by a man nervy enough to mention a minimum breast size when looking for a woman. Both of these preferences are somewhat arbitrary, though both are likely rooted in evolutionary psychology. I just think the double standard is amusing.
I'm 6' 3", and living proof that it takes more than being tall to get lucky. I really don't care how tall a woman is; my last girlfriend was 5'3" or so.
 
2012-12-03 03:47:28 PM  

Sultan Of Herf: star_topology: Don't lean into people when you talk to them.

/Did I cover it?

We had a temp at work like that. He violated peoples no fly zones big time. Worse yet he did it right at the beginning of the shift. Our shift starts at 10pm...no one is all happy and ready to go at 10pm. We really didnt need some dude we didnt really know getting 3 inches from our face and popping out "yo homie whats up?" as soon as we walked in the door.


The close talker. Have you ever had one where, when they got too close, you backed up a bit, only to have them come closer? You find yourself backing around the room until you are cornered.
 
2012-12-03 03:48:09 PM  

Repo Man: Tat'dGreaser: I'm just glad that I'm forever alone because I'm ugly and boring, at least I'm not creepy

If you look at an attractive woman in a way that even slightly gives away the fact that you think she's pretty, and she thinks that you aren't anywhere close to being in her league (as in, she would find it insulting that you asked her out), you're creepy.


fark all that.

Accuracy by Volume™
 
2012-12-03 03:48:32 PM  

Repo Man: Women do have a right to specify a minimum height in personal ads. What I find amusing is how horrified they would be if a man were to specify a minimum bra cup size in his ad.


To be fair, height /= boobie size.

If they were going around saying they would only date a man if his penis was at least 6" you might have a point.
 
2012-12-03 03:56:42 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: Repo Man: Women do have a right to specify a minimum height in personal ads. What I find amusing is how horrified they would be if a man were to specify a minimum bra cup size in his ad.

To be fair, height /= boobie size.

If they were going around saying they would only date a man if his penis was at least 6" you might have a point.


Where is the body part conversion chart? Who decides what is equal to what? Elevator shoes and padded bras seem pretty equivalent to me. But, that's just my opinion man.
 
2012-12-03 04:01:29 PM  

pkellmey: When it comes to other people, it really isn't that simple. I've been told by so many women, "You're the perfect person to date/marry, however you are too short by a few inches. I won't date anyone I can't wear high heels with." Pretty consistent comment that I don't make enough money to overcome (and I am not really interested enough to wear shoe inserts or stupid crap like that).


You should thank them for allowing you to dodge their bullet. Any woman that will make decisions on such shallow meaningless traits isn't the woman for you. If anything, being short gives you an additional tool to filter out the shallow types, despite (or because of) the social disadvantage that being shorter can inflict.

Addendum: it's usually a good idea to avoid the status conscious extroverts and instead find a nice quiet girl with an depth of intellect, interests, and passion.

/Tall
//Ended up with a status conscious extroverted wife that later said she wouldn't have considered me if i wasn't as tall as I am
///Learn from my example or suffer the consequences!
 
2012-12-03 04:14:22 PM  
Stevie Ray Fromstein: Not Aggressive Enough

I had a real life experience that was almost exactly like his last joke. I'm the expert at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
2012-12-03 04:19:26 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: I took this class, it was great! If it weren't for him, I'd still be bringing my axe with me to dates. I still kinda miss pointing out the bloodstains....


i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-03 04:22:14 PM  

Trayal: pkellmey: When it comes to other people, it really isn't that simple. I've been told by so many women, "You're the perfect person to date/marry, however you are too short by a few inches. I won't date anyone I can't wear high heels with." Pretty consistent comment that I don't make enough money to overcome (and I am not really interested enough to wear shoe inserts or stupid crap like that).

You should thank them for allowing you to dodge their bullet. Any woman that will make decisions on such shallow meaningless traits isn't the woman for you. If anything, being short gives you an additional tool to filter out the shallow types, despite (or because of) the social disadvantage that being shorter can inflict.

Addendum: it's usually a good idea to avoid the status conscious extroverts and instead find a nice quiet girl with an depth of intellect, interests, and passion.

/Tall
//Ended up with a status conscious extroverted wife that later said she wouldn't have considered me if i wasn't as tall as I am
///Learn from my example or suffer the consequences!


Everyone loves a slut.
 
2012-12-03 04:29:27 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: "Like, I tell people I went to Harvard, and I can tell they're thinking I'm a douche bag."

[JFP pic]


This reminds me of the guy my freshman year in college who went around telling everybody what his ACT scores were.
 
2012-12-03 04:30:42 PM  
I'm certainly no expert, but I've found the following tips to be helpful in the dating game:

1. Be aware of your posture. Stand up straight, sit up straight.

2. Create inside jokes that can be referrenced later.

3. Be passionate about something.

4. Use physical touch and sexual innueno in a moderate amount.
 
2012-12-03 04:31:14 PM  

Repo Man: CapeFearCadaver: Repo Man: Women do have a right to specify a minimum height in personal ads. What I find amusing is how horrified they would be if a man were to specify a minimum bra cup size in his ad.

To be fair, height /= boobie size.

If they were going around saying they would only date a man if his penis was at least 6" you might have a point.

Where is the body part conversion chart? Who decides what is equal to what? Elevator shoes and padded bras seem pretty equivalent to me. But, that's just my opinion man.


What about "No fat chicks"? Is that okay?
 
2012-12-03 04:38:07 PM  

feffer: Repo Man: CapeFearCadaver: Repo Man: Women do have a right to specify a minimum height in personal ads. What I find amusing is how horrified they would be if a man were to specify a minimum bra cup size in his ad.

To be fair, height /= boobie size.

If they were going around saying they would only date a man if his penis was at least 6" you might have a point.

Where is the body part conversion chart? Who decides what is equal to what? Elevator shoes and padded bras seem pretty equivalent to me. But, that's just my opinion man.

What about "No fat chicks"? Is that okay?


No bolt-ons.
 
2012-12-03 04:39:51 PM  

MayoSlather: The sound of one hand clapping: Dammit ladies! Isn't it simply enough that I don't stare at your tits for the whole date? Do I learn how to do all this subtle body language crap too?

I have a tendency to look down to avoid eye contact when I feel anxious or awkward on a date, on more than one occasion I believe my date assumed I was just staring at her chest. Then when I realize she just thought I was blatantly staring I get even more awkward, which causes me to look down again.


I rarely look at anyone in the eyes when they are talking to me. If I am looking at them at all it'll be watching their mouth. It is certainly an unfortunate habit to develop, but I'm sure it'll come in handy when I'm deaf. But my eyes skitter around a lot so I can hope people don't necessarily think much of it - I'm sure it does get noticed since this is by no means a normal thing to do, but hopefully they don't find it creepy (they probably do).

.

As far as confidence goes - not that I am much of one to talk on this subject at all - I've developed a saying: I have no confidence, only arrogance and ignorance.
 
2012-12-03 05:29:12 PM  
"Like, I tell people I went to Harvard, and I can tell they're thinking I'm a douche bag."

Ahh...gonna go ahead and agree with your hypothesis, Sherlock.
 
2012-12-03 05:30:34 PM  
Having been asked if I was a serial killer before, I am getting a kick out of these creepy replies.

/they ha to be at least half joking, right? No one would ask someone they thought was a killer that.
//but then, this has happened more than once so it must be half seious too
//not a slasher, just a slasher.
 
2012-12-03 06:28:09 PM  
I've found the key to building self confidence is to have sex with many beautiful women.
 
2012-12-03 06:31:12 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: why would i want a girlfriend when i can just masturbate



FOUR hand poker is always more fun.
 
2012-12-03 07:16:14 PM  

that was my nickname in highschool: Being interested but poor is a sure-fire way to creep a woman out.


Or old, or ugly, or short, or talking too much about the F-15, or bald, or fat, or ...
 
2012-12-03 07:30:42 PM  
 
2012-12-03 07:34:56 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: Having been asked if I was a serial killer before

...

No, I wouldn't say serial.
 
2012-12-03 07:45:47 PM  

Kuroshin: How does one act "confident"? That's always been my issue when people say things like this (not that they're wrong!). Nobody can explain to me what "confident" acts like, or how to arrive there. For someone who has never been truly confident in his entire life, this is as foreign a concept as quantum mechanics is to a layperson.

I'm not even confident when I know for certain that I'm going to win a race. I know the lap times of all the competition, but I'm still unnerved by all the things that can go wrong (including just being shiat behind the wheel that day). Some of us have never known confidence.

/could really use this class


2 drinks helps, to start off, just to break through that mental wall. Avoid more than 3 in an evening unless you're really spacing them out, if your goal is to make conversation with relatively sober people; it slows your brain and no one likes an awkward drunk unless they're drunk too.

Cocaine and weed can also be great ways to become lively and engaging, but they're expensive, addictive, make you feel shiatty after sobering up, and tend to turn you into a raging asshole when you stop thinking at all before you talk. Note: Assholes are interesting and funny in moderation, which is why some people love cokeheads; worrying too much about offending anyone about anything you say, sober or not, makes one pretty uninteresting.

Enough about priming, the way to fake confidence is to just walk up to the guy or gal you want to talk to and ask them something. My default is "Hey, did I see you at [some event] recently?" Can be a show, gallery, anywhere you've been really. (If you actually have seen them, even better.) If they have, great, but even if not, you segue into asking about what they're doing there. Figure out a few things about yourself that are the most interesting, and bring one of them up when the chance comes; people are automatically attracted by someone passionate about something, as long as it's not all they can talk about. Also, compliment them, especially if they compliment you or someone else, and use their name, people like that. If you don't remember, just ask again, but if you forget again, might want to ask someone else to avoid annoying them. Interrupt and interject, but not enough to be an asshole. In a lull, pick another topic at random; girls love to talk about where they got whatever they're wearing if you can't think of anything else, and almost everyone likes music.

A lot of young people smoke socially just because bumming a cig or going out for a break with others already smoking is an ice breaker.

Most of the people you meet you probably won't see again, or it will be some time later, so don't be too shy. It's not high school anymore, rumors aren't going to fly if you flub a line.

Keeping a conversation going is a lot harder for me than breaking the ice - I'm just too naturally thoughtful to have the gift of gab, plus I'm not too into sports. Can't help you too much there. But it's easy enough to meet interesting and beautiful people, and they'll often introduce you to more people, and in a group it's always easier to keep a conversation going.

All just my opinion, which means fark all. Others have their ways, too.
 
2012-12-03 08:03:54 PM  

neutronstar: I'm certainly no expert, but I've found the following tips to be helpful in the dating game:

1. Be aware of your posture. Stand up straight, sit up straight.

2. Create inside jokes that can be referrenced later.

3. Be passionate about something.

4. Use physical touch and sexual innueno in a moderate amount.


Oh hell, forgot about that. Obviously, don't grope strangers, but a shoulder pat or a quick arm grip while you're explaining something goes a long way. As an extension, get animated with your hands, even if you just want to stick 'em in your pockets or fold 'em.

Know your audience, too, though: You can really freak out introverts with touching and big gestures. If you are one, you know that all too well.

How to connect with serious introverts: Get their email/FB/IM name and go online to talk. :p
 
2012-12-03 08:10:55 PM  

pkellmey: When it comes to other people, it really isn't that simple. I've been told by so many women, "You're the perfect person to date/marry, however you are too short by a few inches. I won't date anyone I can't wear high heels with." Pretty consistent comment that I don't make enough money to overcome (and I am not really interested enough to wear shoe inserts or stupid crap like that).


I never wear heels because I find them uncomfortable as all hell, and if you're still shorter than me, WGAF.
 
2012-12-03 08:42:07 PM  
heili skrimsli:

WOW - read your profile, we need to hang out...
 
2012-12-03 08:47:53 PM  
Not being creepy is a critical skill when it comes to meeting people, especially if you are male.

1) Never, ever, EVER continue to pursue someone who has said she's not interested.
2) Looking threatening is creepy, but being caught trying to look nonthreatening is creepier.
3) Leave your obsessions at home. If you must express an obsession, then express several different obsessions at the same time. If you cannot do this, you need more obsessions.
4) Anyone you pursue already knows that you think about sex a lot, but many don't care to be reminded of the fact. Leave the sexual humor -jokes, clothes, pickup lines, etc.- at home.
5) Practice basic hygiene: shower regularly and after exercise, brush your teeth, keep up on your laundry, and do something with your hair (anything, really, as long as you're not ignoring it).

These guidelines, especially the first, will go a long way.
 
2012-12-03 09:19:25 PM  

MassAsster: heili skrimsli:

WOW - read your profile, we need to hang out...


Hanging out is one of my talents.
 
2012-12-03 10:00:30 PM  
Too many responses to take 'em one-by-one, but I'd like to thank those who took the time to give advice.

Kinda wish I hadn't been on the road all day, so I could have kept up with the thread.
 
2012-12-03 10:40:32 PM  

jshine: Holocaust Agnostic: Having been asked if I was a serial killer before...

No, I wouldn't say serial.



*I* would, over and over and over.......
 
2012-12-04 01:14:24 AM  
I kinda have a "creepy" problem. Only with trying to find a date of course (and its rare to find myself in that situation)

I feel like I have been around people 10-15+ years older than me for too much of my life. At work people under 40 are rare as hell,(I am the youngest in the branch of 100+ ppl @ 26) and there is about a male/female ratio of about 100:1 Been thinking about going to community collage locally just to re-integrate myself with people somewhat close to my age. Well - that and attempt some calculus to try and go for an engineering degree.

It also kinda sucks that all my close friends are the bad stereotype of video game nerds and are literally content with doing NOTHING but playing video games all day. That and work. Absolutely nothing else.

Any tips on re-integration? I feel like I am losing my humanity. Being introverted with introverted friends has kept me in a vicious cycle that I want to - and need to break.
 
2012-12-04 03:11:16 AM  
I'm by no means a good-looking man. When I was young, slim, and had long hair, I could have passed for Steve Perry's younger brother (if you were feeling charitable). But in my late 20's, I started having women become interested in me.

It was just after my ex-wife and I split. The company I had worked for went under, so I had to take a job at Wal-Mart. I was still smarting from the breakup, so I had decided to not even consider getting involved with a woman for awhile. During my breaks and lunches, I wasn't really all that nervous talking to the women who worked there (even the pretty ones) because I really had not interest in them sexually. We'd just hang out, crack jokes, and go back to work. Somehow, my lack of interest was mistaken for confidence, and some of the ladies started being friendly.

Well, I would sometimes go out and smoke, and one of my smoke buddies made it fairly obvious that she liked me, but I kinda let her know that I wasn't ready to get into something yet. It was raining outside one day, so we went out to her car to smoke. We sat and chatted for a bit, and things got kinda quiet. She was cute, I was feeling weak and lonely, so I leaned in and we made out until lunch was over. I felt bad afterwards because we were friends, she was nice, and I didn't want to use her as a rebound woman. We backed off a bit and didn't really talk about it.

As you all know, gossip in a place like that spreads like fire, and the tale gets taller as it's being told. Apparently, my friend went and told her friends that worked there that I was a good kisser. After that, I started getting long, full-body hugs from these girls that were barely out of high school. I tried to stay strong and use my head, but my resolve got weaker and weaker. Eventually, I gave in to my hormones and head my own little sexual revolution.

I've tried to analyze how this all happened to an unattractive bum like me. Was it luck? Was it because I treated these women in a way they were unused to? Were they just desperate and I was the least unattractive male around at the time? All of the above? Who knows. I just know that I had some wild days and nights
 
2012-12-04 06:54:44 AM  

MeinFurhrerICanStand: Any tips on re-integration? I feel like I am losing my humanity. Being introverted with introverted friends has kept me in a vicious cycle that I want to - and need to break.


The community college idea isn't a bad one at all. One thing you'll hear a lot is to find groups of people who share your interests, and not only college campuses tend to have a lot of them, they even advertise the fact. Big ready-made social groups that you can walk into already knowing that you have stuff in common with them.
 
2012-12-04 07:30:17 AM  

Millennium: MeinFurhrerICanStand: Any tips on re-integration? I feel like I am losing my humanity. Being introverted with introverted friends has kept me in a vicious cycle that I want to - and need to break.

The community college idea isn't a bad one at all. One thing you'll hear a lot is to find groups of people who share your interests, and not only college campuses tend to have a lot of them, they even advertise the fact. Big ready-made social groups that you can walk into already knowing that you have stuff in common with them.


Meet ups. Low pressure, not based on dating, often involve drinking alcohol, and they're groups of people you already have something in common with. They don't require a large investment of time or money, and you can try as many of them as you like.
 
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