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(Ars Technica)   A look at the evolution of iTunes over twelve years. Yeah... the new version doesn't suck nearly as much now, does it?   (arstechnica.com) divider line 134
    More: Interesting, iTunes LP, iTunes Music Store, Windows USER, icloud, iPods, evolution, OS X, version numbers  
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6657 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Dec 2012 at 1:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 03:28:35 PM  
Yeah, those all look like the exact same screenshot.

Apple was no doubt a pioneer. They had that great look way back when. But it's very apparent they're stuffy and old. They really need to change it up.
 
2012-12-03 03:29:38 PM  

Aar1012: Apple dropped support for Mac OS X 10.5 ... But still supports Windows XP.

/Can't wait to get a new Mac



They do have a vested interest in getting people off 10.5.
 
2012-12-03 03:30:29 PM  
Add me to the group that thinks that iTunes is a POS that I begrudgingly accept just because I have an iPod.
 
2012-12-03 03:35:02 PM  
Fark itunes. I don't even remember the last time I updated my phone because I refuse to use that piece of shiat software and all of its locked down proprietary bullshiat. The last time I even tried was when I wanted to update my music list before going on a trip. All I wanted to do was to add a couple albums off of my computer, but I couldn't do that without first syncing the phone and wiping all of its music files from another computer that I no longer had access to due to a harddrive crash. I ended up having to search around for some jailbreak software that I could use to pull the music off of the phone before I synced it. I came away solidly with the belief that if your software requires its user to find a third party workaround in order to gain full use of their product then you have utterly failed as a company.
 
2012-12-03 03:45:37 PM  
Wait, iTunes now looks like Zune's software?

cdn.arstechnica.net
vs
shadowsillusion.com 

I'm so glad I can use Floola with my tiny ipod shuffle.
 
2012-12-03 03:47:51 PM  

moothemagiccow: that EULA will get you though


From the Apple EULA: "You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."

WTF??

If I can't make nuclear weapons with iTunes, apple can eat a bag of D's.

Source: http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/appstore/dev/stdeula/
 
2012-12-03 03:52:09 PM  

The Onion is prophetic: I've used Winamp for the past 15 years and will continue to use it until they pry it from my cold dead hands.


I'll be sure to steer clear of your lawn.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:36 PM  
I think the new itunes design looks pretty slick, but it lags so damn much when you go to actually use it. I didn't exactly steal my computer from NASA, but i feel it's still a pretty respectable machine and it seems ridiculous to me that itunes should feel so sluggish. If it wasn't for the genius feature, I'd have ditched it a long time ago.

Also, they straight up removed itunes DJ and just kind of half baked it into the "up next" feature, which is just all kinds of counter-intuitive.
 
2012-12-03 03:56:47 PM  
Is this the thread wherein people point out that, Winamp, Foobar, hell even WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER are far better at playing and managing music collections?
 
2012-12-03 03:58:35 PM  

boozehat: moothemagiccow: that EULA will get you though

From the Apple EULA: "You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."

WTF??

If I can't make nuclear weapons with iTunes, apple can eat a bag of D's.

Source: http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/appstore/dev/stdeula/


That seems misworded somehow.... how does one "produce nuclear." I mean, I guess you could read it the other way, but then it's "missiles weapons," which is also pretty stupid. You'd think with as many lawyers as Apple has, one of them would proofread the thing.
 
2012-12-03 04:07:18 PM  
Yep. I Rockbox all my music players, and Winamp seems to work just fine. Why use anything else when I already have a program that has the features I want, works how I expect. Sure, every version asks me to install the Ask.com toolbar, but that's it, and it's easy to uncheck.

I've had to fix computers that still had the itunes remenants on them, months after uninstalling itunes. no thanks on letting that near my system.
 
2012-12-03 04:20:13 PM  
I haven't noticed any real advantage to the new itunes 11. I finally figured out how to get my sidebar back. but 10.332,129 seemed fine to me.

/lawn, remove yourself
 
2012-12-03 04:22:05 PM  
Suck Differently.
 
2012-12-03 04:35:22 PM  

delsydsoftware: iTunes is still a dog on Windows, though I understand that it's much better on MacOS. If it wasn't for my iPhone, I wouldn't have it installed.


It sucks. What a PIG, man.
 
2012-12-03 04:43:43 PM  

ProfessorOhki: boozehat: moothemagiccow: that EULA will get you though

From the Apple EULA: "You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."

WTF??

If I can't make nuclear weapons with iTunes, apple can eat a bag of D's.

Source: http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/appstore/dev/stdeula/

That seems misworded somehow.... how does one "produce nuclear." I mean, I guess you could read it the other way, but then it's "missiles weapons," which is also pretty stupid. You'd think with as many lawyers as Apple has, one of them would proofread the thing.


It's fine. You just have to understand that the iComma only works with Apple words.
 
2012-12-03 04:49:29 PM  
iTunes is a buggy, bloated, crashy pile of shiate and always has been.

My mother has an iPod Touch; Putting music on the damn thing drove me near crazy, because iTunes is just...shiate.

/I guess I'm a bit odd for liking Windows Media Player and using it as my primary
//It just works, has everything laid out intuitively, and has a nicer search feature
///VLC for video of course
 
2012-12-03 04:57:40 PM  

Lexx: Is this the thread wherein people point out that, Winamp, Foobar, hell even WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER are far better at playing and managing music collections?


Yup, we've covered those already
 
2012-12-03 05:02:38 PM  
iTunes may ne the main reason I don't have anything Apple.
 
2012-12-03 05:10:45 PM  

The Onion is prophetic: Lexx: Is this the thread wherein people point out that, Winamp, Foobar, hell even WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER are far better at playing and managing music collections?

Yup, we've covered those already


And the saddest thing about iTunes (from personal experience): WMA lossless sounds better than any of iTunes' lossless formats. Not sure if it's iTunes that sucks the life out of the format or the format itself that sucks balls.
 
2012-12-03 05:11:31 PM  
Is this where the people who haven't used iTunes in five years tell us how crappy the new version is? Don't forget to prattle on about DRM, even though that's been gone for years.
 
2012-12-03 05:15:36 PM  

Humorous-Name: iTunes is a buggy, bloated, crashy pile of shiate and always has been.

My mother has an iPod Touch; Putting music on the damn thing drove me near crazy, because iTunes is just...shiate.

/I guess I'm a bit odd for liking Windows Media Player and using it as my primary
//It just works, has everything laid out intuitively, and has a nicer search feature
///VLC for video of course


You're not the only one. For some reason WMP seems to like making your music collection easy to search and find.
 
2012-12-03 05:16:21 PM  

sure haven't: Yeah, those all look like the exact same screenshot.

Apple was no doubt a pioneer. They had that great look way back when. But it's very apparent they're stuffy and old. They really need to change it up.


Shizzle, look at the iPhone's UI. It may have been revolutionary 5 years ago when it came out, but now it's boring.

Sterile.

A plain grid of icons.

No widgets, tiles, live wallpapers or other fun stuff to freshen things up.

Blech.
 
2012-12-03 05:26:12 PM  

bingethinker: Is this where the people who haven't used iTunes in five years tell us how crappy the new version is? Don't forget to prattle on about DRM, even though that's been gone for years.


I have the newest version - the most updated it can be. I have an iPhone so iTunes is sort of a requirement.

It still blows. Deal with it.
 
2012-12-03 05:30:41 PM  
I farking hate iTunes. It does a very poor job of updating its library whenever you move the files around. It doesn't clean out duplicate songs. It doesn't clean out missing songs. It doesn't tag songs for you. In the past, it couldn't even sync to your devices in a logical and intuitive way, but that's gotten better in recent versions.

I'm almost tempted to try iTunes Match because it's supposed to take care of all these problems by uploading your whole collection to the cloud and replace them with better quality versions, and then you can just delete/move out your original collection and then re-download the updated/consolidated songs from the cloud.

But I don't know. I'm just surprised that it's taking so long for anyone to come up with a decent MP3 organizer, and iTunes still isn't close to what it could be.
 
2012-12-03 05:32:37 PM  

eltejon: iTunes may ne the main reason I don't have anything Apple.


This... and the fact that I find Apple stuff barely average in quality, nor believe in the companies practices, and the fact that it turns people into douchebags to moment anything about electronics are mentioned, and the other fact that they'll find a way to bring up that they have Apple stuff no matter what the topic of conversation is.
 
2012-12-03 05:34:49 PM  
Just got a SanDisk Zip to replace my old iPod. It's great because it just shows up in Windows as an external device, drag your music over [in M4A or FLAC or Vorbis or MP3] and it's done. No software installs, no fuss. It also supports ReplayGain, which is great for those of us who don't want to scramble at the volume knob every time the song changes.

That's the kind of shiat that irks me about iTunes: Why do they refuse to support even OGG playback? Or ReplayGain? It's just absurd.

And as far as playing on the computer goes, foobar2000 is the bee's knees. Plays every format known to man and uses very few resources.
 
2012-12-03 05:40:16 PM  

bingethinker: Is this where the people who haven't used iTunes in five years tell us how crappy the new version is? Don't forget to prattle on about DRM, even though that's been gone for years.


Nobody but you mentioned DRM. This is actually the thread where various people from very different walks of life agree that iTunes sucks for a myriad of reasons.
 
2012-12-03 05:41:38 PM  

bingethinker: DRM


Actually yours is the Boobies this whole thread to mention the word "DRM". Do you do anything beyond prattle on about being a fanboy?

/act your age too grandpa
 
2012-12-03 05:43:42 PM  
I'd wager itunes for Windows basically made the ipod the major success it is today. Giving windows users an easy, fast, and highly visible way to buy music, rather then rip and burn or pirate, was a huge thing.

After that, it seems the rios and such just sort of died. They couldn't play your itunes music, so why bother?

The massive downside was the DRM. You couldn't buy one song then give it to your friends or transfer to non apple devices. It locked a lot of people into apple only devices for music, and later, phones.
 
2012-12-03 05:52:57 PM  

The Banana Thug: I farking hate iTunes. It does a very poor job of updating its library whenever you move the files around. It doesn't clean out duplicate songs. It doesn't clean out missing songs. It doesn't tag songs for you. In the past, it couldn't even sync to your devices in a logical and intuitive way, but that's gotten better in recent versions.

I'm almost tempted to try iTunes Match because it's supposed to take care of all these problems by uploading your whole collection to the cloud and replace them with better quality versions, and then you can just delete/move out your original collection and then re-download the updated/consolidated songs from the cloud.

But I don't know. I'm just surprised that it's taking so long for anyone to come up with a decent MP3 organizer, and iTunes still isn't close to what it could be.


I've been using iTunes Match for almost a year now.

Good:

A lot of my music came from other sources (friends, family, etc) and I've moved it from machine to machine to machine. I had so many different versions of different software used to rip the stuff (and including time) that degraded the files. iTunes Match gave me a nice, quality copy of those songs which has made a huge difference in sound.

I have two machines, wife has two machines, and father-in-law has one machine. We love exchanging music discoveries with the f-i-l, back and forth. Before we had to wait until we went over there before doing so; now that we're all under the same Match account we just send each other an email or pick up the phone and say, "Hey, album x by artist y is on iTunes. Check it out." Then we're done. We just download the music from Cloud and we all have it on every machine.

If the song or album is part of the "Mastered for iTunes" series (more and more are) you will get that version. It's a version of the song made specifically for iTunes and iPod/iPhone type devices that has, in my non-anal non-audiophile opinion a richer sound.


Bad:

If there are two versions of an album, Clean and Explicit, you might get the clean version. This happens a lot with Eminem's catalog and a few other artists I have. There is, as of yet, no way to set that you want the Explicit version, and this is something I wish Apple would implement. Delete explicit songs with caution.

Oldies are a pain sometimes too. You have one version that you love, then decide to match it. You might get a re-recorded version, you might get a different recording, you might get a live version. There are so many people out there that have rights to different versions of the songs that it's a crapshoot.

Match does NOT fix your tags, unfortunately. It keeps the tags you have.

It only matches songs 128kbps and higher. Anything you may have downloaded from the net at a lower rate will not match unless you reencode (outside of iTunes) to 128kbps or higher.


I do have a system for dealing with the explicit and Oldies issues. It takes a bit of time but worth it: Empty your Trash/Recycle Bin. Start deleting, song by song, the songs you want matched. Listen to the Matched version to make sure it is the same; curses and version. If it is, empty your trash. If it isn't, delete the new version from iTunes and the Cloud, then reimport the version sitting in your trash. A bit involved if you have a lot of music but it takes the guess work and disappointment out of it all.


Otherwise, I've enjoyed it and will re-up in January.
 
2012-12-03 05:56:05 PM  

Treygreen13: bingethinker: Is this where the people who haven't used iTunes in five years tell us how crappy the new version is? Don't forget to prattle on about DRM, even though that's been gone for years.

I have the newest version - the most updated it can be. I have an iPhone so iTunes is sort of a requirement.

It still blows. Deal with it.



Yep. I've owned a variety of Apple products, as does my wife. iTunes just sucks--and I love my iPhone. I'm convinced at this point, the iTunes department just doesn't give a fark and has no oversight or accountability.
 
2012-12-03 06:11:41 PM  
If you're on a mac, Itunes is pretty fantastic. On PC, it's horrible. That's just it. The new version is markedly better than the last few have been. The one thing I hate about it, is if I drag an album with a playlist into it, the songs will show up twice. Wish they would fix that.
 
2012-12-03 06:15:26 PM  

SultanofSchwing: Foobar.


Indeed. This is all you need.
 
2012-12-03 06:21:17 PM  
No coverflow = no upgrade.
 
2012-12-03 06:23:11 PM  

spidermann: I've been using iTunes Match for almost a year now.

Good:

A lot of my music came from other sources (friends, family, etc)...


Thanks! That's all useful to know. I'm somewhat leaning towards iTunes Match, but yea the not-tagging thing kills me and don't like how it all comes back as AAC files instead of MP3s. Maybe that's supposed to sound better, I don't know, but I generally hate propriety formats. And if the whole library gets moved up to the cloud and you don't re-up annually, then... *POOF*.
 
2012-12-03 06:35:10 PM  

eltejon: iTunes may ne the main reason I don't have anything Apple.


Smart man. I wish I had been so wise before wasting a ton of money on an overpriced ipod a few years back. At least it died after about 6 months so I didn't have to use that pos any more.

/iTunes is proof that Apple users are retarded
 
2012-12-03 06:38:25 PM  

The Banana Thug: I farking hate iTunes. It does a very poor job of updating its library whenever you move the files around. It doesn't clean out duplicate songs. It doesn't clean out missing songs. It doesn't tag songs for you. In the past, it couldn't even sync to your devices in a logical and intuitive way, but that's gotten better in recent versions.

I'm almost tempted to try iTunes Match because it's supposed to take care of all these problems by uploading your whole collection to the cloud and replace them with better quality versions, and then you can just delete/move out your original collection and then re-download the updated/consolidated songs from the cloud.

But I don't know. I'm just surprised that it's taking so long for anyone to come up with a decent MP3 organizer, and iTunes still isn't close to what it could be.


The problem is not everyone follows a standard folder or tag naming convention, and many CDs are ripped with incorrect data. The result is that you can't even trust the file names to be accurate.

So you either trust the files and folders, the tags, or a pre built database. Then one person moves a folder or retags a file or refreshes the DB with a drive disconnected...

Its not that there isn't a good way to do things, its that there are so many ways to break it...
 
2012-12-03 06:39:23 PM  

The Banana Thug: spidermann: I've been using iTunes Match for almost a year now.

Good:

A lot of my music came from other sources (friends, family, etc)...

Thanks! That's all useful to know. I'm somewhat leaning towards iTunes Match, but yea the not-tagging thing kills me and don't like how it all comes back as AAC files instead of MP3s. Maybe that's supposed to sound better, I don't know, but I generally hate propriety formats. And if the whole library gets moved up to the cloud and you don't re-up annually, then... *POOF*.


AAC isn't proprietary. It plays on almost all devices.

More


Also, when you don't reup? You keep the music. It doesn't disappear, even the Matched versions. You just have to keep a local copy, such as on an ext hdd. If you leave it ALL in Cloud, then yeah... it'll disappear.
 
2012-12-03 06:40:19 PM  

TheAgeOfEgos: Treygreen13: bingethinker: Is this where the people who haven't used iTunes in five years tell us how crappy the new version is? Don't forget to prattle on about DRM, even though that's been gone for years.

I have the newest version - the most updated it can be. I have an iPhone so iTunes is sort of a requirement.

It still blows. Deal with it.


Yep. I've owned a variety of Apple products, as does my wife. iTunes just sucks--and I love my iPhone. I'm convinced at this point, the iTunes department just doesn't give a fark and has no oversight or accountability.


Lack of iTunes was a selling point for me when I switched to an android.
 
2012-12-03 06:41:03 PM  

Poorlytoldjoke: If you're on a mac, Itunes is pretty fantastic. On PC, it's horrible. That's just it. The new version is markedly better than the last few have been. The one thing I hate about it, is if I drag an album with a playlist into it, the songs will show up twice. Wish they would fix that.


I use a Mac and I find iTunes to be very much kind of crappy, but usable. If I had a better way to sync my iPods (I love the shuffles) I'd use that instead.
 
2012-12-03 06:41:38 PM  

Antimatter: I'd wager itunes for Windows basically made the ipod the major success it is today. Giving windows users an easy, fast, and highly visible way to buy music, rather then rip and burn or pirate, was a huge thing.

After that, it seems the rios and such just sort of died. They couldn't play your itunes music, so why bother?

The massive downside was the DRM. You couldn't buy one song then give it to your friends or transfer to non apple devices. It locked a lot of people into apple only devices for music, and later, phones.


Exactly. Make your proprietary DRM work on many platforms (which is only possible because the other platforms are more open), kill the HW competition, remove DRM. You lock people in just long enough that they get used to it; then you remove the lock. You get people who have never known anything else talking about how "iTunes is DRM-free!" and you get to run the other MP3 manufacturers into the ground. Pretty well played on their part, really.
 
2012-12-03 07:38:26 PM  
Thanks to itunes, I will never install a piece of Apple software on a computer again.

Also, why does Quicktime still exist? Now that's a piece of software I haven't needed in years.
 
2012-12-03 07:59:55 PM  
I'm not thrilled with the new look, but I will say one thing: I'm so happy they put back in the ability to put your mouse over the volume slider and then use the scroll wheel to change volume. For some reason, they'd removed that from the last version after having it for a very long time before that.

Other than that, I'm pretty ambivalent about it. I'll get over it, I'm sure.
 
2012-12-03 08:02:02 PM  
I have iTunes on a Windows 7 machine, mainly for managing my iPod. It does okay.
 
2012-12-03 08:29:20 PM  

bingethinker: Is this where the people who haven't used iTunes in five years tell us how crappy the new version is? Don't forget to prattle on about DRM, even though that's been gone for years.


Oh, is that why I can't transfer my songs off my iphone without downloading a third party app to do it for me?
 
2012-12-03 09:23:57 PM  

PsyLord


Add me to the group that thinks that iTunes is a POS that I begrudgingly accept just because I have an iPod.


If you have a "shuffle", this is an easy alternative Link
Make a /music folder on your shuffle, drag 'n drop files to that folder then run a quick sync- script and you're good to go.
 
2012-12-03 09:24:28 PM  

The Banana Thug: spidermann: I've been using iTunes Match for almost a year now.

Good:

A lot of my music came from other sources (friends, family, etc)...

Thanks! That's all useful to know. I'm somewhat leaning towards iTunes Match, but yea the not-tagging thing kills me and don't like how it all comes back as AAC files instead of MP3s. Maybe that's supposed to sound better, I don't know, but I generally hate propriety formats. And if the whole library gets moved up to the cloud and you don't re-up annually, then... *POOF*.


Having used iTunes, Amazon and Google music matching services, iTunes has a far higher success rate on my music. Yes, it's dearer than the other two, and it only works well with iPhone, but even as an Android user, I'll be sticking with it.

Back to the topic of iTunes 11 suckage tho. The problem I'm having is for some reason the sound suddenly drops in volume, and only a restart of iTunes fixes it. Other that, I'm not minding iTunes 11. It uses more resources than a media player should, and the new interface takes some getting used to, but on the whole it's alright.
 
jde
2012-12-03 09:26:56 PM  

Fark Me To Tears: I have iTunes on a Windows 7 machine, mainly for managing my iPod. It does okay.


Conversely, I find myself being forced to reformat/restore my Touch 4th-gen every 2-3 weeks because iTunes doesn't recognize it to sync.

Not impressed by that undocumented feature...
 
2012-12-03 09:30:53 PM  

TheManWho: The problem I'm having is for some reason the sound suddenly drops in volume, and only a restart of iTunes fixes it.


Is this on Windows 7? Because I notice this happening in VLC whenever I connect or disconnect my iPhone. If so, you may also be able to fix the problem by right-clicking volume in your task bar and opening the mixer. In that, there should be a volume control for each application you have open, and so you should be able to turn the volume back up for any affected programs.

Assuming this is the same thing happening to you, yeah, it is annoying.
 
2012-12-03 09:40:27 PM  

NateAsbestos: Just got a SanDisk Zip to replace my old iPod. It's great because it just shows up in Windows as an external device, drag your music over [in M4A or FLAC or Vorbis or MP3] and it's done. No software installs, no fuss. It also supports ReplayGain, which is great for those of us who don't want to scramble at the volume knob every time the song changes.

That's the kind of shiat that irks me about iTunes: Why do they refuse to support even OGG playback? Or ReplayGain? It's just absurd.

And as far as playing on the computer goes, foobar2000 is the bee's knees. Plays every format known to man and uses very few resources.


Boy I really...REALLY wanted to like foobar2000 but the GUI turned me off.
 
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