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(The New York Times)   Obama: $1.6 trillion in taxes on the wealthy, $50 billion in short-term stimulus spending and $612 billion in recycled cuts. GOP: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. Obama: Ok...what's YOUR proposal then? GOP: *crickets*. The Party of 'No' is back, baby   (nytimes.com) divider line 456
    More: Obvious, President Obama, GOP, close election results, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner, George Bush, entitlement reform, Peter R. Orszag, Dan Pfeiffer  
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4318 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Dec 2012 at 12:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 01:42:00 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Hell, I'll go further. I WANT all of the tax cuts rescinded, including the ones that affects me. Increasing revenue benefits me in the long run more than the money benefits me in the short run.


Yep, and your not alone. From what I hear (which I know isn't scientific) but many on the left want us to get rid of it all or do Obama's plan almost none I hear want to take the Republican deal. On the other hand it seems to me the "fiscal conservative" republicans are afraid of the Defense cuts and rise in revenue.
 
2012-12-03 01:42:02 PM  

Corvus: Then why is the GOP saying it's Obama responsibility to come up with the budget?


Because they can blame him for the entitlement reform. That can't have that hanging on their neck like an albatross. You must think I am Republican or something.

Corvus: But my point is that it's the houses RESPONSIBILITY to do it and them attacking Obama for not doing their job is BS.


It's negotiation, This is how our f*cked up politics work
 
2012-12-03 01:42:41 PM  

Tyee: FTFAAmid demands from Republicans that President Obama propose detailed new spending cuts to avert the year-end fiscal crisis, his answer boils down to this: you first.

Using the "you first" approach to leadership, that is so strong dude!  But then if he truly had a mandate...


He already put his plan out there. He's not going to make the Republicans' counter-proposal for them.
 
2012-12-03 01:42:44 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: No subby is wrong with her headline.

The article says: " his answer boils down to this: you first." so as is typical, 0bama does not have a specific proposal only campaign slogans.

Besides 0bama has never said how his proposed tax cuts are going to create jobs or what he is going to do to deal with the other 90% of his reckless spending.


Well to end that 90% of reckless spending he is ending the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and removing the Bush tax rates for the top 1%. There you go, the reckless spending is gone.
 
2012-12-03 01:44:32 PM  

Dr Dreidel: But do you identify as male or female (or neither)? In the 21st century, no one cares what caliber you're packing, and TransNation has led me to believe that your parts are correlated with, not derivative from, your gender.

// r =.737120628


Wouldn't it be the other way around? Your gender is correlated with, not derivative from, your plumbing? I mean, I'm a dude and happy to be such, but there are definitely individuals running around out there with the same pipes but opposite view of their gender, right?
 
2012-12-03 01:44:54 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Tyee: FTFAAmid demands from Republicans that President Obama propose detailed new spending cuts to avert the year-end fiscal crisis, his answer boils down to this: you first.

Using the "you first" approach to leadership, that is so strong dude!  But then if he truly had a mandate...

He already put his plan out there. He's not going to make the Republicans' counter-proposal for them.


True. If Republicans have a problem with higher taxes for the wealthy, phantom spending cuts sometime soon somewhere and more money for the Solyndras they need to pony up.
 
2012-12-03 01:45:02 PM  

Corvus: Really? No one is arguing that?

You are saying NO REPUBLICAN has been saying it's Obama's job to come up with this budget? You are saying NO Republican is saying that now?


You really need a nice cup of Earl Gray Tea and settle down, because I have no idea why you are so wound up.

The Republicans want a proposal, they got one. The Republicans are also trying to get him to negotiate with himself. Obama said no. Now the ball in in the Republicans court. Let watch
 
2012-12-03 01:45:05 PM  

CorporatePerson: I'm not so sure the Democrats will be able to pass a new set of Obama tax cuts for only the poor/middle class if we go over the cliff. What's to stop the Republicans from simply reintroducing the exact same Bush Tax Cuts for everyone including the top 2%, slapping a new name on it, and holding their breath and doing nothing until the dems agree to pass it?


Nothing, really, except the Party of Fiscal Responsibility now gets to argue in favor of bigger deficits and more borrowing.
 
2012-12-03 01:47:42 PM  

Corvus: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Hell, I'll go further. I WANT all of the tax cuts rescinded, including the ones that affects me. Increasing revenue benefits me in the long run more than the money benefits me in the short run.

Yep, and your not alone. From what I hear (which I know isn't scientific) but many on the left want us to get rid of it all or do Obama's plan almost none I hear want to take the Republican deal. On the other hand it seems to me the "fiscal conservative" republicans are afraid of the Defense cuts and rise in revenue.


I work in defense, and I'm honestly not bent out of shape over the fiscal cliff. My Republican boss is, of course, but I've patiently explained and re-explained how these cuts are not likely going to affect us, and if they do, they won't be as painful as they seem. But while I like the guy, he's been hard-programmed to believe the hype. Such is life.
 
2012-12-03 01:47:45 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: The article says: " his answer boils down to this: you first." so as is typical, 0bama does not have a specific proposal only campaign slogans.


Here is the budget you say does not exist. Click on the right for each section in detail.

The President's Budget for Fiscal Year 2013
 
2012-12-03 01:48:08 PM  

whistleridge: Dr Dreidel: But do you identify as male or female (or neither)? In the 21st century, no one cares what caliber you're packing, and TransNation has led me to believe that your parts are correlated with, not derivative from, your gender.

// r =.737120628

Wouldn't it be the other way around? Your gender is correlated with, not derivative from, your plumbing? I mean, I'm a dude and happy to be such, but there are definitely individuals running around out there with the same pipes but opposite view of their gender, right?


BAH! Yeah, I fell prey to the "gender/sex" trap.

// you should probably add "gender/sex trap" to the list of things you shouldn't GIS
// I'm just guessing, though
 
2012-12-03 01:48:55 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: No subby is wrong with her headline.

The article says: " his answer boils down to this: you first." so as is typical, 0bama does not have a specific proposal only campaign slogans.

Besides 0bama has never said how his proposed tax cuts are going to create jobs or what he is going to do to deal with the other 90% of his reckless spending.


You're an idiot.
 
2012-12-03 01:49:00 PM  

qorkfiend: CorporatePerson: I'm not so sure the Democrats will be able to pass a new set of Obama tax cuts for only the poor/middle class if we go over the cliff. What's to stop the Republicans from simply reintroducing the exact same Bush Tax Cuts for everyone including the top 2%, slapping a new name on it, and holding their breath and doing nothing until the dems agree to pass it?

Nothing, really, except the Party of Fiscal Responsibility now gets to argue in favor of bigger deficits and more borrowing.


Not to mention that a clear majority of Americans are against that course of action, but I guess that doesn't matter much anymore when you have dipshiat Republicans holding political office in this country.
 
2012-12-03 01:49:10 PM  

too-old: Corvus: Really? No one is arguing that?

You are saying NO REPUBLICAN has been saying it's Obama's job to come up with this budget? You are saying NO Republican is saying that now?

You really need a nice cup of Earl Gray Tea and settle down, because I have no idea why you are so wound up.

The Republicans want a proposal, they got one. The Republicans are also trying to get him to negotiate with himself. Obama said no. Now the ball in in the Republicans court. Let watch


Because you are putting words in my mouth.

Are the Republicans saying it's Obama's responsibility to come up with a budget proposal? You said no one is doing this. So are they not doing this?
 
2012-12-03 01:49:31 PM  

keylock71: Brubold


keylock71: Brubold: It would help if Obama had even started to meet them halfway.

Bullshiat. It's the GOP that needs to move closer to Obama's position.


Actually both sides should be willing to negotiate. It's what used to make our government work. It's what got us into such great shape during Clinton's time in office for instance. At least regarding the deficit anyway.
 
2012-12-03 01:50:27 PM  
10 quatloos says randomwhargarble and ten Pounds of its not cheese don't post again.
 
2012-12-03 01:50:37 PM  

EighthDay: Brubold: JerseyTim: The Republicans don't want to negotiate. They want Obama to negotiate against himself. They're not going to offer counter proposals, they're only going to feign outrage at everything Obama does.

It would help if Obama had even started to meet them halfway. From what I've seen so far his proposal has no entitlement reform and didn't add any spending cuts.

I'm guessing you haven't looked very hard if that's all you've seen so far.

FTFA: Disciplined and unyielding, he argues for raising taxes on the wealthy while offering nothing new to rein in spending and overhaul entitlement programs beyond what was on the table last year.

The entitlement reforms and spending cuts from last year's negotiation are on the table. That's a far cry different from NO reforms / cuts.


From what I've read the entitlement cuts are a promise for the future. They aren't actually in the proposal. Which means they don't mean anything.
 
2012-12-03 01:51:09 PM  

too-old: The Republicans want a proposal, they got one. The Republicans are also trying to get him to negotiate with himself. Obama said no. Now the ball in in the Republicans court. Let watch


And they are saying it's Obama responsibility to come up with a budget for them, which you just said no one is doing.

I don't care what side of the political spectrum you are but if you are making shiat up to protect what the GOP is doing it doesn't matter to me. Stop trying to be perceived ad balanced when they are full of shiat.
 
2012-12-03 01:51:26 PM  

Corvus: Are the Republicans saying it's Obama's responsibility to come up with a budget proposal? You said no one is doing this. So are they not doing this?


I have absolutely no clue what you are arguing about anymore. Take a 10 minute break or something
 
2012-12-03 01:51:27 PM  

Corvus: Who won the election. Where is the GOP plan?


Grover Norquist was Diane Rehm's guest on her show on NPR this morning, and he was asked this question. His response was "The Republicans in the Congress have not only put something down, they've passed the Ryan plan, which is a real budget with real reform that actually got votes. The President's budget is one that every single Democrat voted against and every single Democrat in the Senate voted against. It's not serious." (link, relevant part starts about 44:30)

So in effect, he's saying the Republican plan in the Ryan budget. Yes, the Ryan who is notably not the VP-elect right now.

Also, that "President's budget" he's talking about this past May's Senate vote on a budget put forward by Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL) that allegedly used Obama's numbers. It wasn't a real budget proposal; it was crafted as a straw man by a Republican and the vote was forced by the same Republican, and it was voted down 99-0. So a man like Norquist takes that and goes around saying that Obama's budget received no Democratic support.
 
2012-12-03 01:51:53 PM  

Raharu: 10 quatloos says randomwhargarble and ten Pounds of its not cheese don't post again.


Yeah they don't seem to do well about hearing the other side of their arguments do they?
 
2012-12-03 01:52:11 PM  

Brubold: Actually both sides should be willing to negotiate. It's what used to make our government work. It's what got us into such great shape during Clinton's time in office for instance. At least regarding the deficit anyway.


The fact that we're even talking about deficits at all, to say nothing of cuts to basic social services at a time of multi-year recession and high unemployment is itself an extraordinary compromise. Link
 
2012-12-03 01:52:19 PM  

Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: The article says: " his answer boils down to this: you first." so as is typical, 0bama does not have a specific proposal only campaign slogans.

Here is the budget you say does not exist. Click on the right for each section in detail.

The President's Budget for Fiscal Year 2013


lol, that's as pointless as trying to convince them that tectonic plates exist, that we can run out of oil, or that math can help you learn things. They don't believe in reality, and they aren't interested in government.
 
2012-12-03 01:52:38 PM  
When the GOP proposes extending the status quo to avoid the fiscal cliff, as they will of negotiations fail, will the Dems then be the "party of no", subby?

Or will they be justified in stomping their feet because the GOP wont let them have their pound of flesh ransom for avoiding the supposedly horrible repercussions of the fiscal prudence otherwise known as the "cliff"?
 
2012-12-03 01:52:44 PM  

Brubold: keylock71: Brubold

keylock71: Brubold: It would help if Obama had even started to meet them halfway.

Bullshiat. It's the GOP that needs to move closer to Obama's position.


Actually both sides should be willing to negotiate. It's what used to make our government work. It's what got us into such great shape during Clinton's time in office for instance. At least regarding the deficit anyway.


Two problems:
1) The Republicans lost the most recent election, and lost badly. They have no ground to stand on in this negotiation, because Obama has taken the position a clear majority of Americans support.

2) The Republicans during the Clinton era were not mindless ignorant reactionaries (at least not to this extent), and they did not oppose every legislation put in front of them, including their own previous policies, because Clinton was not black.

This reality is not that one.
 
2012-12-03 01:54:14 PM  

too-old: Corvus: Are the Republicans saying it's Obama's responsibility to come up with a budget proposal? You said no one is doing this. So are they not doing this?

I have absolutely no clue what you are arguing about anymore. Take a 10 minute break or something


Holy shiat you said this:

too-old: Corvus: I am not saying anyone can't do it. But who's RESPONSIBILITY is it?

The House, and nobody is arguing that.


Do you not know what you said?

You said the Republicans aren't arguing that Obama is responsible to come up with their budget plan. So I asked if you really wanted to double down on and now you seem to be back peddling or trying to not actually answer something I have asked you about 3 times already.
 
2012-12-03 01:54:56 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: When the GOP proposes extending the status quo to avoid the fiscal cliff, as they will of negotiations fail, will the Dems then be the "party of no", subby?

Or will they be justified in stomping their feet because the GOP wont let them have their pound of flesh ransom for avoiding the supposedly horrible repercussions of the fiscal prudence otherwise known as the "cliff"?


I dunno, lets ask the people which actions they favor to determine if this is the case.

www.washingtonpost.com

oh
 
2012-12-03 01:55:00 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: When the GOP proposes extending the status quo to avoid the fiscal cliff, as they will of negotiations fail, will the Dems then be the "party of no", subby?

Or will they be justified in stomping their feet because the GOP wont let them have their pound of flesh ransom for avoiding the supposedly horrible repercussions of the fiscal prudence otherwise known as the "cliff"?


The status quo is that all the cuts are eliminated. Are you suggesting that the Republican will propose that?
 
2012-12-03 01:55:31 PM  

firefly212: Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: The article says: " his answer boils down to this: you first." so as is typical, 0bama does not have a specific proposal only campaign slogans.

Here is the budget you say does not exist. Click on the right for each section in detail.

The President's Budget for Fiscal Year 2013

lol, that's as pointless as trying to convince them that tectonic plates exist, that we can run out of oil, or that math can help you learn things. They don't believe in reality, and they aren't interested in government.


sure. I know I won't change his mind but I don't want people in the thread to believe he has a real point. The "ignore these people and they go away" doesn't work. It didn't work for climate change deniers and not for birthers. Other people start believing if you leave them unchallenged.
 
2012-12-03 01:55:42 PM  

Corvus: Raharu: 10 quatloos says randomwhargarble and ten Pounds of its not cheese don't post again.

Yeah they don't seem to do well about hearing the other side of their arguments do they?


They Are not paid to have opinions, just to post the talking points.
 
2012-12-03 01:56:11 PM  

randomjsa: Obama: Here's a train wreck in the making

GOP: How bout no?

Liberals: The party of NO! Waaah![Laughs and points]


FTFY
 
2012-12-03 01:56:34 PM  

Brubold: keylock71: Brubold

keylock71: Brubold: It would help if Obama had even started to meet them halfway.

Bullshiat. It's the GOP that needs to move closer to Obama's position.

Actually both sides should be willing to negotiate. It's what used to make our government work. It's what got us into such great shape during Clinton's time in office for instance. At least regarding the deficit anyway.


That's all well and good...but, the GOP hasn't offered anything. They've demanded that the president negotiate with himself.

The president has decided not to do that and has given the Republicans an opportunity to make an offer.

So, given those facts, how, specifically, is the president wrong in this case?
 
2012-12-03 01:56:42 PM  
Negotiation requires that both parties start at what they want then work towards a compromise. This bullshiat the Republicans and their dumbshiat defenders where "you should start negotiations at what I want then try to work some of what you want into that" is not only lazy, but not negotiating at all. Obama laid out what he wanted. Now is the time for the Republicans to lay out what they wanted. Once that is done, then the sides can work towards a middle.

Until then, Republicans just look like petulant children demanding that someone keep throwing things out there until what they want is guessed at. It's like deciding where to eat dinner with people that start with "I don't know where I want to go, so just keep naming crap and I will say no until I hear something I like".
 
2012-12-03 01:56:58 PM  

eraser8: Rwa2play: randomjsa: Obama: Here's a train wreck in the making

GOP: How bout no?

Liberals: The party of NO! Waaah!

Ah yes, cognitive dissonance boy arrives on cue.

People should stop saying "cognitive dissonance" at every opportunity if they don't know what it means.


Well he does do that on occasion; so what part of it isn't true?
 
2012-12-03 01:57:04 PM  

flux: Grover Norquist was Diane Rehm's guest on her show on NPR this morning, and he was asked this question. His response was "The Republicans in the Congress have not only put something down, they've passed the Ryan plan, which is a real budget with real reform that actually got votes. The President's budget is one that every single Democrat voted against and every single Democrat in the Senate voted against. It's not serious." (link, relevant part starts about 44:30)

So in effect, he's saying the Republican plan in the Ryan budget. Yes, the Ryan who is notably not the VP-elect right now


Right I have also seen Republicans ask if this is true by reporters and they have run away from this.

Has Bohner said this is their official plan? Cause last I heard he said there was no plan just certain general ideas they wanted.
 
2012-12-03 01:57:10 PM  

Brubold: JerseyTim: The Republicans don't want to negotiate. They want Obama to negotiate against himself. They're not going to offer counter proposals, they're only going to feign outrage at everything Obama does.

It would help if Obama had even started to meet them halfway. From what I've seen so far his proposal has no entitlement reform and didn't add any spending cuts.


Ya, just like when Obama met them halfway on health care reform, met with them repeatedly, scrapped the public option... and look at all the help that got him from the GOP. Considering it was their frickin idea he was implementing, they still fought him tooth and nail at every step, even after he offered tons of concessions with no reciprocation. Dems aren't interested in playing that game again... we saw how the GOP was disingenuous previously, how they attacked Democrats for being anti-Medicare every time Dems cut waste... and we're not gonna go down that road again.
 
2012-12-03 01:57:25 PM  

un4gvn666: Brubold: keylock71: Brubold

keylock71: Brubold: It would help if Obama had even started to meet them halfway.

Bullshiat. It's the GOP that needs to move closer to Obama's position.


Actually both sides should be willing to negotiate. It's what used to make our government work. It's what got us into such great shape during Clinton's time in office for instance. At least regarding the deficit anyway.

Two problems:
1) The Republicans lost the most recent election, and lost badly. They have no ground to stand on in this negotiation, because Obama has taken the position a clear majority of Americans support.

2) The Republicans during the Clinton era were not mindless ignorant reactionaries (at least not to this extent), and they did not oppose every legislation put in front of them, including their own previous policies, because Clinton was not black.

This reality is not that one.


The Republicans have no ground? See it's that kind of thinking that's the problem. It's the old Obama, "I won" nonsense. The Republicans run Congress atm so they have plenty of ground. If/when Obama gets off his pedestal and realizes this, things will run much more smoothly.

I'm not saying the Republicans aren't being just as obstinate but a good leader leads the way.
 
2012-12-03 01:57:52 PM  

flux: Corvus: Who won the election. Where is the GOP plan?

Grover Norquist was Diane Rehm's guest on her show on NPR this morning, and he was asked this question. His response was "The Republicans in the Congress have not only put something down, they've passed the Ryan plan, which is a real budget with real reform that actually got votes. The President's budget is one that every single Democrat voted against and every single Democrat in the Senate voted against. It's not serious." (link, relevant part starts about 44:30)

So in effect, he's saying the Republican plan in the Ryan budget. Yes, the Ryan who is notably not the VP-elect right now.

Also, that "President's budget" he's talking about this past May's Senate vote on a budget put forward by Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL) that allegedly used Obama's numbers. It wasn't a real budget proposal; it was crafted as a straw man by a Republican and the vote was forced by the same Republican, and it was voted down 99-0. So a man like Norquist takes that and goes around saying that Obama's budget received no Democratic support.


He pulled that Ryan plan bullsh*t on Meet the Press too. Naturally David Gregory didn't call him on it, but neither did the Democrats at the table. They didn't bring up Sen. Sessions doing some strawman flaying either.

I swear the Dems let every golden opportunity to control their message fall through their laps. They've been damn lucky to have someone like Barack Obama be the President. We'd be looking at McCain's second term if Clinton had gotten the nom.
 
2012-12-03 01:58:19 PM  

eraser8: So, given those facts, how, specifically, is the president wrong in this case?


Duh, he is black.
 
2012-12-03 01:59:49 PM  

Corvus: flux: Grover Norquist was Diane Rehm's guest on her show on NPR this morning, and he was asked this question. His response was "The Republicans in the Congress have not only put something down, they've passed the Ryan plan, which is a real budget with real reform that actually got votes. The President's budget is one that every single Democrat voted against and every single Democrat in the Senate voted against. It's not serious." (link, relevant part starts about 44:30)

So in effect, he's saying the Republican plan in the Ryan budget. Yes, the Ryan who is notably not the VP-elect right now

Right I have also seen Republicans ask if this is true by reporters and they have run away from this.

Has Bohner said this is their official plan? Cause last I heard he said there was no plan just certain general ideas they wanted.


Hmm, that makes me wonder if Norquist and the House GOP are running cross messages here. Maybe the Ryan plan isn't the official one? If so then I bet Norquist is going to get a few, nasty phone calls this week.
 
2012-12-03 01:59:54 PM  

verbaltoxin: He pulled that Ryan plan bullsh*t on Meet the Press too. Naturally David Gregory didn't call him on it, but neither did the Democrats at the table. They didn't bring up Sen. Sessions doing some strawman flaying either.


What I have seen is this:

Press: So you have no budget?

GOP: No we have the Ryan Plan

Press: Ok so then you support X in the Ryan plan?

GOP: Oh no, we don't actually support what's in the Ryan plan but we support the general concepts.

That is what I have seen. They use to pretend they have a plan but then they run away from any of the details of it.
 
2012-12-03 02:00:47 PM  

Brubold: keylock71: Brubold

keylock71: Brubold: It would help if Obama had even started to meet them halfway.

Bullshiat. It's the GOP that needs to move closer to Obama's position.


Actually both sides should be willing to negotiate. It's what used to make our government work. It's what got us into such great shape during Clinton's time in office for instance. At least regarding the deficit anyway.


Well, you let me know the GOP is interested in honestly compromising instead of what they've been doing and continue to do even after getting their asses handed to them in a Presidential election.

The Administration and Democrats have compromised and tried to work with the GOP in the last four years and what did it get them?

The GOP has amply demonstrated they have no interest in the middle classes and poor Americans and will put them in a worse financial situation in order to protect the wealthiest Americans from being part of any kind of austerity.

The GOP has become an "insurgent outlier" and as such, there's no point in giving in to anything they want since they will just reject it and demand more while claiming the Administration refuses to compromise, as they did the last time we went through this.

This is a problem entirely of the GOP's making. They were refusing to work with this president before he was even sworn in. They stated it proudly. It backfired on them.
 
2012-12-03 02:01:01 PM  

Infernalist: They're already being pressured by their donors to make a deal asap, and with the media hyping things up into a frenzy, that adds pressure from the remnants of the Middle and business.

In the end, the cliff will happen and most won't notice...until 2013.


Don't think the democrats want a deal either. Everyone is going to wait until after the deadline before flinching. In the end, the cliff will happen and most won't notice...ever.
 
2012-12-03 02:01:59 PM  

Brubold: The Republicans run Congress atm


No, they run the House of Reps. They don't run the Senate.
 
2012-12-03 02:02:01 PM  

Rwa2play: eraser8: Rwa2play: randomjsa: Obama: Here's a train wreck in the making

GOP: How bout no?

Liberals: The party of NO! Waaah!

Ah yes, cognitive dissonance boy arrives on cue.

People should stop saying "cognitive dissonance" at every opportunity if they don't know what it means.

Well he does do that on occasion; so what part of it isn't true?


No, he doesn't. That guy lives in a fantasy world. He's completely divorced from reality.

People who live in a fantasy world DO NOT suffer from cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance is the discomfort caused by the gap between what someone wants to believe and what's actually true. If a person assumes his imaginary world is true, he is NOT suffering from cognitive dissonance.
 
2012-12-03 02:02:33 PM  

Dr Dreidel: whistleridge: Dr Dreidel: But do you identify as male or female (or neither)? In the 21st century, no one cares what caliber you're packing, and TransNation has led me to believe that your parts are correlated with, not derivative from, your gender.

// r =.737120628

Wouldn't it be the other way around? Your gender is correlated with, not derivative from, your plumbing? I mean, I'm a dude and happy to be such, but there are definitely individuals running around out there with the same pipes but opposite view of their gender, right?

BAH! Yeah, I fell prey to the "gender/sex" trap.

// you should probably add "gender/sex trap" to the list of things you shouldn't GIS
// I'm just guessing, though


You sound...confused. Are you trying to tell us something about your gender vs your anatomy? It's ok, you can be honest with us here. This is a safe place...
 
2012-12-03 02:02:38 PM  

verbaltoxin: Hmm, that makes me wonder if Norquist and the House GOP are running cross messages here. Maybe the Ryan plan isn't the official one? If so then I bet Norquist is going to get a few, nasty phone calls this week.


Look above is what I have seen. Maybe it's not right, but I personally not seen them defiantly say the Ryan is their position.


Also I think it's pretty bad when the plan is from a guy running as VP and LOST and they say that's what the American people want. The Ryan plan is very unpopular that's why the run from it when asked about it.
 
2012-12-03 02:03:14 PM  

Brubold: I'm not saying the Republicans aren't being just as obstinate but a good leader leads the way.


He is. The GOP needs to follow or get out of the way. That's how it works.
 
2012-12-03 02:03:48 PM  

Brubold: un4gvn666: Brubold: keylock71: Brubold

keylock71: Brubold: It would help if Obama had even started to meet them halfway.

Bullshiat. It's the GOP that needs to move closer to Obama's position.


Actually both sides should be willing to negotiate. It's what used to make our government work. It's what got us into such great shape during Clinton's time in office for instance. At least regarding the deficit anyway.

Two problems:
1) The Republicans lost the most recent election, and lost badly. They have no ground to stand on in this negotiation, because Obama has taken the position a clear majority of Americans support.

2) The Republicans during the Clinton era were not mindless ignorant reactionaries (at least not to this extent), and they did not oppose every legislation put in front of them, including their own previous policies, because Clinton was not black.

This reality is not that one.

The Republicans have no ground? See it's that kind of thinking that's the problem. It's the old Obama, "I won" nonsense. The Republicans run Congress atm so they have plenty of ground. If/when Obama gets off his pedestal and realizes this, things will run much more smoothly.

I'm not saying the Republicans aren't being just as obstinate but a good leader leads the way.


Republicans control only one house of Congress, and their hold on it is slipping more and more.

A good leader also does what's right. There is no legitimate reason to do what Republicans are asking and maintain tax rates on the wealthy at current levels. Not a single reason. If they won't budge on that issue, everyone's taxes go up, and they'll be to blame. The American people have expressed as such.

Again, no, Republicans have no ground from which to negotiate, and if they keep this up, I look forward to one party rule in 2014.
 
2012-12-03 02:03:49 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: When the GOP proposes extending the status quo to avoid the fiscal cliff, as they will of negotiations fail, will the Dems then be the "party of no", subby?

Or will they be justified in stomping their feet because the GOP wont let them have their pound of flesh ransom for avoiding the supposedly horrible repercussions of the fiscal prudence otherwise known as the "cliff"?

The status quo is that all the cuts are eliminated. Are you suggesting that the Republican will propose that?


You know what I mean. Extend so that rates stay the same.

Not that I'm in favor of that, in fact as you know I'm hoping that this is all part of Obama's secret plan to intentionally go off the cliff, raise everyone's taxes and cut spending to fix our fiscal situation, while maintaining the ability to blame or share blame with the GOP.

But if he and the dems really think its critical to spend $3.7t to extend cuts for the 98%, why isn't it worth spending $4.5t to extend cuts for the 100%? Particularly when th dollar for dollar impact on the economy of cuts for the 98% and he 2% aren't very different?
 
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