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(The New York Times)   Obama: $1.6 trillion in taxes on the wealthy, $50 billion in short-term stimulus spending and $612 billion in recycled cuts. GOP: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. Obama: Ok...what's YOUR proposal then? GOP: *crickets*. The Party of 'No' is back, baby   (nytimes.com) divider line 456
    More: Obvious, President Obama, GOP, close election results, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner, George Bush, entitlement reform, Peter R. Orszag, Dan Pfeiffer  
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4318 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Dec 2012 at 12:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 01:28:17 PM  

SlothB77: For example, 401Ks. 401Ks benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. We go over the fiscal cliff, then we nationalize 401Ks. Or we make it mandatory employers have to give every employee a 401K. We mandate that 3% of every person's salary go into a 401K and that goes into an account the government administers and then they pay it out to you when you retire. That is an example. Sounds just like doubling down on social security to me, but that is what people are throwing out there.


www.blogforarizona.com
 
2012-12-03 01:28:28 PM  

too-old: Corvus: Why do you and Republicans hate the constitution and want Obama to ignore it?

Anyone can come up with a budget, it just has to be introduce in the House. Obama has put out tons of budgets, the Republicans just mention he hasn't because they haven't seen one they like


Which branch of government is it according to the Constitution to come up with the budget?


I am not saying anyone can't do it. But who's RESPONSIBILITY is it?

Answer me that.
 
2012-12-03 01:28:46 PM  

kmmontandon: RexTalionis: Close election? As of 15 hours ago, Obama had 4,632,588 more votes than Romney.

Yeah, but how many of those were from people making $250,000/yr. or more? You know, Real People.


FTFY
 
2012-12-03 01:28:57 PM  

Brubold: JerseyTim: The Republicans don't want to negotiate. They want Obama to negotiate against himself. They're not going to offer counter proposals, they're only going to feign outrage at everything Obama does.

It would help if Obama had even started to meet them halfway. From what I've seen so far his proposal has no entitlement reform and didn't add any spending cuts.


I'm guessing you haven't looked very hard if that's all you've seen so far.

FTFA: Disciplined and unyielding, he argues for raising taxes on the wealthy while offering nothing new to rein in spending and overhaul entitlement programs beyond what was on the table last year.

The entitlement reforms and spending cuts from last year's negotiation are on the table. That's a far cry different from NO reforms / cuts.
 
2012-12-03 01:29:12 PM  

Raharu: randomjsa: Obama: Here's a train wreck in the making

GOP: How bout no?

Liberals: The party of NO! Waaah!

shiat and run shill like typing detected.


JSA's problem is still in the campaign... "how about no?" isn't a piece of legislation, a solution, or a proposal for a method leading to a solution... it isn't even an idea... they ran with it as a campaign, and got their collective asses handed to them, but they've been so married to just being intransigent contrarians that they don't know how to be anything else any more. Between their reckless spending, tax cuts are the solution to every problem mentality, and total lack of negotiations in the first four years (ya, the dems still remember your counter offer to Obamacare... Dems conceded, negotiated away public option, and gave up tons... and got jack shiat for it), I think the GOP has simply forgotten how to negotiate, how to govern, and how to lead.
 
2012-12-03 01:29:40 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Corvus: randomjsa: Obama: Here's a train wreck in the making

GOP: How bout no?

Liberals: The party of NO! Waaah!

Who won the election. Where is the GOP plan?

I have the GOP plan right here.

[blogs.kansas.com image 431x438]

Counter that Libtard!


Cool lets raise tax rates to where they were under Reagan.
 
2012-12-03 01:29:55 PM  
For Christmas, I wish someone would go over to Drudge and grab a screenshot of the 54 Trees headline and change it to Uppity.
 
2012-12-03 01:30:22 PM  
Interesting that the Obama supporters are for Congress to relinquish their power at being able to limit the budget deficit. Apparently Obama's supporters want to give Obama a 'blank-check' to do whatever he pleases without being questioned. Also, included with the Senate/Obama proposal is a 4 year deference on any 'entitlement' cost cuts.

Completely unacceptable.

Yet...these points are ignored by dems/libs.

/It's Bush's fault
 
2012-12-03 01:30:53 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Maybe Boehner DID make an offer, but his statesmanlike words of compromise were muffled by Grover Norquist's testicles?


Well yeah it was that and the crying. It's always hard to understand what someone's saying when they cry. It was probably better for Grove that way though.

/I'm really tired of, yet amazed by this Grover dude
//Sounds like he has the power to create a Groverstown somewhere and host a mass suicide
///Or a Waco after Texas secedes
 
2012-12-03 01:31:01 PM  

too-old: Remember way back in the 2004 election when Bush was supposed to claim Martial Law so he didn't have to worry about the election? Funny how every President wants to be a dictator


The difference is Bush actually passed a bill that would have allowed him to do that. So I would say it's a bit different.
 
2012-12-03 01:31:11 PM  

Raharu: The party of no ideas except text cuts for rich of course and corporations and anybody who outsources labor to another country


There. For the rich.

;)

Raharu: You certainly live up to your name don't you.


GRAMMAR NAZIS, UNITE!!!
 
2012-12-03 01:31:18 PM  

ferretman: Interesting that the Obama supporters are for Congress to relinquish their power at being able to limit the budget deficit. Apparently Obama's supporters want to give Obama a 'blank-check' to do whatever he pleases without being questioned. Also, included with the Senate/Obama proposal is a 4 year deference on any 'entitlement' cost cuts.

Completely unacceptable.

Yet...these points are ignored by dems/libs.

/It's Bush's fault


2.1/10
 
2012-12-03 01:31:31 PM  

ferretman: Interesting that the Obama supporters are for Congress to relinquish their power at being able to limit the budget deficit. Apparently Obama's supporters want to give Obama a 'blank-check' to do whatever he pleases without being questioned. Also, included with the Senate/Obama proposal is a 4 year deference on any 'entitlement' cost cuts.

Completely unacceptable.

Yet...these points are ignored by dems/libs.

/It's Bush's fault


dafuq did i just read?
 
2012-12-03 01:31:42 PM  
That article does a nice job of showing where we're at politically and how we got there.

Both sides are bad. So ..... ???
 
2012-12-03 01:31:51 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Corvus: randomjsa: Obama: Here's a train wreck in the making

GOP: How bout no?

Liberals: The party of NO! Waaah!

Who won the election. Where is the GOP plan?

I have the GOP plan right here.

[blogs.kansas.com image 431x438]

Counter that Libtard!


You mean the plan that was Proposed by President Jimmy Carter and Paul Volcker proposed, enacted, and implemented the hard parts. Which caused Carters defeat and almost got the Federal Reserved placed under direct Congressional control? That plan? The one that allowed Ronald Reagan to take credit for an improving economy, when the reality is he had very little to do with it? That one?

Seriously you need to study out history more.
 
2012-12-03 01:31:55 PM  
here's the new tenpoundsofcheese kit, a la skinnyhead

i.imgur.com

tenpoundsofcheese: No subby is wrong with her headline.

The article says: " his answer boils down to this: you first." so as is typical, 0bama does not have a specific proposal only campaign slogans.

Besides 0bama has never said how his proposed tax cuts are going to create jobs or what he is going to do to deal with the other 90% of his reckless spending.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-03 01:32:01 PM  
Thanks alot, "president" Hussein Edward Butt
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2012-12-03 01:32:22 PM  

SlothB77: Obama wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. He wants those large cuts to defense to go into effect. He wants the economy to crash again. When it does, he can introduce new reforms that will significantly expand the reach and power of the federal government.


HAAAAAAahahaahhahaha. I shall now farky thee as a comedien. Doesn't even matter if you really believe this or not, if you're trolling or not, that's FUNNY.
 
2012-12-03 01:32:38 PM  

Hobodeluxe: firefly212: We should just go over the cliff... it's better than setting a precedent of negotiating with legislative terrorists.

yeah first thing they'll do is come running back for that 98% offer with the 4 trillion in spending cuts


And we should let them... frankly, it's what the markets expect. They lost the election, so they don't get to call the shots... they can do nothing but be petulant babies (tax increase for everyone), they can accede to the president's demands (tax increase for 2%), or they could come to the table like grown ups (tax increase for 2%, but substantial entitlement reforms). Right now it seems like the first two are the only options because the GOP simply doesn't know how to negotiate... they view it as ideologically unpure.
 
2012-12-03 01:33:06 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: No subby is wrong with her headline.

The article says: " his answer boils down to this: you first." so as is typical, 0bama does not have a specific proposal only campaign slogans.

Besides 0bama has never said how his proposed tax cuts are going to create jobs or what he is going to do to deal with the other 90% of his reckless spending.


Things that are wrong with this comment:

1. I have boy parts, not girl parts
2. Your grasp of the facts at hand
3. Your spelling
 
2012-12-03 01:33:09 PM  

SlothB77:

For example, 401Ks. 401Ks benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. We go over the fiscal cliff, then we nationalize 401Ks. Or we make it mandatory employers have to give every employee a 401K. We mandate that 3% of every person's salary go into a 401K and that goes into an account the government administers and then they pay it out to you when you retire. That is an example. Sounds just like doubling down on social security to me, but that is what people are throwing out there.


for those of you who might not otherwise be aware, this is straight outta freerepublic.com and Rush Limbaugh. the latest GOP conspiracy theory is that Obama (and the Democrats) are going to steal 401k plans/funds and nationalize the banking system. it's pure scare tactic bullshiat of course, but it's one of the leading dittohead talking points for the week.
 
2012-12-03 01:33:24 PM  

ferretman: Interesting that the Obama supporters are for Congress to relinquish their power at being able to limit the budget deficit. Apparently Obama's supporters want to give Obama a 'blank-check' to do whatever he pleases without being questioned. Also, included with the Senate/Obama proposal is a 4 year deference on any 'entitlement' cost cuts.

Completely unacceptable.

Yet...these points are ignored by dems/libs.

/It's Bush's fault


No. They are not saying that. They are saying the Republicans have not even purposed anything yet. All they have done is saying Obama has to come up with a budget they want or they refuse to even talk.

The Republicans haven't done one thing except saying "That's not good enough" and demanded Obama to do everything.

The press keeps asking them what their position is on these different cuts and the refuse to answer where their cuts or going to come from or where their revenue will come from or even what the numbers are.
 
2012-12-03 01:33:31 PM  

Cletus C.: That article does a nice job of showing where we're at politically and how we got there.

Both sides are bad. So ..... ???


false equivalency strawman
 
2012-12-03 01:33:34 PM  
I'm trying to figure out a way where this doesn't result in decades-safe Republican Congressional seats turning blue in 2014. I'm no wizard though.
 
2012-12-03 01:33:46 PM  
I'm not so sure the Democrats will be able to pass a new set of Obama tax cuts for only the poor/middle class if we go over the cliff. What's to stop the Republicans from simply reintroducing the exact same Bush Tax Cuts for everyone including the top 2%, slapping a new name on it, and holding their breath and doing nothing until the dems agree to pass it?
 
2012-12-03 01:34:07 PM  

ferretman: . Also, included with the Senate/Obama proposal is a 4 year deference on any 'entitlement' cost cuts

.

So...you want to cut Social Security, Medicare, and/or Medicaid, rather than raising taxes on rich people?

Or are you saying something else?
 
2012-12-03 01:34:07 PM  

Corvus: I am not saying anyone can't do it. But who's RESPONSIBILITY is it?


The House, and nobody is arguing that.

Everyone does have a voice in it though.
The last Debt negotiations the Senate proposed quite a few budgets. Then the House took it and did whatever they wanted to it
 
2012-12-03 01:34:35 PM  

Weaver95: SlothB77:

For example, 401Ks. 401Ks benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. We go over the fiscal cliff, then we nationalize 401Ks. Or we make it mandatory employers have to give every employee a 401K. We mandate that 3% of every person's salary go into a 401K and that goes into an account the government administers and then they pay it out to you when you retire. That is an example. Sounds just like doubling down on social security to me, but that is what people are throwing out there.

for those of you who might not otherwise be aware, this is straight outta freerepublic.com and Rush Limbaugh. the latest GOP conspiracy theory is that Obama (and the Democrats) are going to steal 401k plans/funds and nationalize the banking system. it's pure scare tactic bullshiat of course, but it's one of the leading dittohead talking points for the week.


That's really nothing new. My idiot teabagger co-worker has been throwing that out at the annual 401K meeting since 2009. He wants to be able to invest his 401K money in gold.
 
2012-12-03 01:35:46 PM  
I'm not so sure going over the fiscal cliff will be that bad. It'll definitely hurt is in the short term, but the CBO seems to think we'll be even better off in 2022 than if we solve this crisis.

I don't know why. Ask them. They're the economists. They used graphs and stuff!!

/and now I'm sure I'm gonna have to dredge up that document so I can cite it
 
2012-12-03 01:35:56 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Cletus C.: That article does a nice job of showing where we're at politically and how we got there.

Both sides are bad. So ..... ???

false equivalency strawman


obfuscation
 
2012-12-03 01:36:15 PM  

Corvus: This is the SAME plan Obama ran on and got elected on. Serious it's annoying how much the press pretends this is both sides fault so they don't looked bias.

The constitution says it's HOUSE's job to make the budget. They have no plan but Obama does and their are crying that he has not done what they want yet.

The press should be ripping the Republicans for this bullshiat.


Are you stating that now the phantom horse race is over, the corporate-owned media should dare question their betters?

I think you give them too much credit.
 
2012-12-03 01:36:17 PM  

ferretman: Interesting that the Obama supporters are for Congress to relinquish their power at being able to limit the budget deficit. Apparently Obama's supporters want to give Obama a 'blank-check' to do whatever he pleases without being questioned. Also, included with the Senate/Obama proposal is a 4 year deference on any 'entitlement' cost cuts.

Completely unacceptable.

Yet...these points are ignored by dems/libs.

/It's Bush's fault


I don't think he should have a blank check, but right now he's the only guy at the negotiating table. The GOP is in booster seats at the kids table screaming no and crying about the lack of apple juice. If they want to come to the table with a serious offer about how to reform entitlements, since the president's proposal deals mostly with the revenue side of things, I would very much welcome that. So far though, just screaming and sippy-cups full of apple juice, not a proposal on entitlement reform.
 
2012-12-03 01:36:23 PM  

CorporatePerson: I'm not so sure the Democrats will be able to pass a new set of Obama tax cuts for only the poor/middle class if we go over the cliff. What's to stop the Republicans from simply reintroducing the exact same Bush Tax Cuts for everyone including the top 2%, slapping a new name on it, and holding their breath and doing nothing until the dems agree to pass it?


Because they have less to lose than the Republicans. More Democrats don't give a shiat about all tax rates going up and they want the defense cuts.

Many Democrats I know want none of the cuts over the additional tax cuts.
 
2012-12-03 01:36:40 PM  

ferretman: Interesting that the Obama supporters are for Congress to relinquish their power at being able to limit the budget deficit.


What the hell are you talking about? Do you even know?
 
2012-12-03 01:36:57 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Corvus: randomjsa: Obama: Here's a train wreck in the making

GOP: How bout no?

Liberals: The party of NO! Waaah!

Who won the election. Where is the GOP plan?

Better: The GOP wonretained the House. ORIGINATE A BILL TO RAISE REVENUE, like the Constitution says you should, you pasty, ignorant little derpfactories. Have the Chair of the House Admin Committee write it all fancy-like, just to keep her busy.

// it's right there, just before the part that says you can pray to whichever flavor of Jesus goes down smoothest
// is this why they're not gonna waste a lot of time reading that silly piece of paper again?

 
2012-12-03 01:37:01 PM  

verbaltoxin: I'm trying to figure out a way where this doesn't result in decades-safe Republican Congressional seats turning blue in 2014. I'm no wizard though.


Obama caves on Dec. 31st. That's the only way.
 
2012-12-03 01:37:06 PM  

SlothB77: For example, 401Ks. 401Ks benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. We go over the fiscal cliff, then we nationalize 401Ks. Or we make it mandatory employers have to give every employee a 401K. We mandate that 3% of every person's salary go into a 401K and that goes into an account the government administers and then they pay it out to you when you retire. That is an example. Sounds just like doubling down on social security to me, but that is what people are throwing out there.


It isn't quite identical to doubling down on Social Security. My folks both died before they were 66. Neither of them saw very much of their Social Security contributions (mom was on disability for about 9 months). Under the 401k system, presumably I would have inherited a reasonable chunk of change (their untouched Social Security). On the other side, it is an insurance thing, and their unused contributions helped to make the system more secure overall.
 
2012-12-03 01:38:24 PM  

too-old: Corvus: I am not saying anyone can't do it. But who's RESPONSIBILITY is it?

The House, and nobody is arguing that.

Everyone does have a voice in it though.
The last Debt negotiations the Senate proposed quite a few budgets. Then the House took it and did whatever they wanted to it


And I am not arguing what you are pretending I am arguing. I never said no one can't come up with the budget. But my point is that it's the houses RESPONSIBILITY to do it and them attacking Obama for not doing their job is BS.

Then why is the GOP saying it's Obama responsibility to come up with the budget?
 
2012-12-03 01:39:17 PM  
So, the french cheese log has returned!

And in fine form.
 
2012-12-03 01:39:31 PM  

tbhouston: this is only one the first page and i already remeber why i don't venture into this tab.. god america is so stupid


*on
*remember
 
2012-12-03 01:39:42 PM  

Corvus: CorporatePerson: I'm not so sure the Democrats will be able to pass a new set of Obama tax cuts for only the poor/middle class if we go over the cliff. What's to stop the Republicans from simply reintroducing the exact same Bush Tax Cuts for everyone including the top 2%, slapping a new name on it, and holding their breath and doing nothing until the dems agree to pass it?

Because they have less to lose than the Republicans. More Democrats don't give a shiat about all tax rates going up and they want the defense cuts.

Many Democrats I know want none of the cuts over the additional tax cuts.


Hell, I'll go further. I WANT all of the tax cuts rescinded, including the ones that affects me. Increasing revenue benefits me in the long run more than the money benefits me in the short run.
 
2012-12-03 01:39:43 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Weaver95: SlothB77:

For example, 401Ks. 401Ks benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. We go over the fiscal cliff, then we nationalize 401Ks. Or we make it mandatory employers have to give every employee a 401K. We mandate that 3% of every person's salary go into a 401K and that goes into an account the government administers and then they pay it out to you when you retire. That is an example. Sounds just like doubling down on social security to me, but that is what people are throwing out there.

for those of you who might not otherwise be aware, this is straight outta freerepublic.com and Rush Limbaugh. the latest GOP conspiracy theory is that Obama (and the Democrats) are going to steal 401k plans/funds and nationalize the banking system. it's pure scare tactic bullshiat of course, but it's one of the leading dittohead talking points for the week.

That's really nothing new. My idiot teabagger co-worker has been throwing that out at the annual 401K meeting since 2009. He wants to be able to invest his 401K money in gold.


lol, let him... let's see how well he does with a market rife with scams. Personally, I think the FTC should get out of regulating that market and let it be caveat emptor of idiot doomsday conservatives. Let them experience the unregulated "free" markets they opine for without understanding information asymmetry.
 
2012-12-03 01:39:49 PM  

too-old: Corvus: I am not saying anyone can't do it. But who's RESPONSIBILITY is it?

The House, and nobody is arguing that.


Really? No one is arguing that?

You are saying NO REPUBLICAN has been saying it's Obama's job to come up with this budget? You are saying NO Republican is saying that now?
 
2012-12-03 01:40:27 PM  

randomjsa: Obama: Here's a train wreck in the making

GOP: How bout no?

Liberals: The party of NO! Waaah!


Ah yes, cognitive dissonance boy arrives on cue.
 
2012-12-03 01:40:30 PM  

Jackson Herring: mrshowrules: I expressed a willingness to put the garbage out this morning. Didn't do it but I was willing.

Well you can just make Mr. How Rules do it for you anyway so who cares


I'm shaking my head disapprovingly
 
2012-12-03 01:41:01 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: verbaltoxin: I'm trying to figure out a way where this doesn't result in decades-safe Republican Congressional seats turning blue in 2014. I'm no wizard though.

Obama caves on Dec. 31st. That's the only way.


Ha! Congress doesnt on work New Year's Eve! That's a good one. They have a whole month so they will work what 5-6 days max to get this sorted?
 
2012-12-03 01:41:05 PM  

Muta: US Constitution, Article 1, Section 7 -- All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives

Shouldn't the House of Representatives be the ones submitting the proposals?


They did. The House proposed extending the Bush Tax cuts through this year, which the Senate passed and the President signed. Now the President has signaled that he won't sign (and the Senate won't pass) a new extension that goes above $250k.

Now the House GOP is between a rock and a hard place. If they accede to higher rates on the wealthy, Grover will kick them in the nuts and threaten to run teatards against them in '14. If they don't they get blamed for farking over the middle class and lose the House in '14. Heads the Dems win -- tails the GOP lose.
 
2012-12-03 01:41:14 PM  

whistleridge: tenpoundsofcheese: No subby is wrong with her headline.

The article says: " his answer boils down to this: you first." so as is typical, 0bama does not have a specific proposal only campaign slogans.

Besides 0bama has never said how his proposed tax cuts are going to create jobs or what he is going to do to deal with the other 90% of his reckless spending.

Things that are wrong with this comment:

1. I have boy parts, not girl parts
2. Your grasp of the facts at hand
3. Your spelling


But do you identify as male or female (or neither)? In the 21st century, no one cares what caliber you're packing, and TransNation has led me to believe that your parts are correlated with, not derivative from, your gender.

// r =.737120628
 
2012-12-03 01:41:54 PM  

Rwa2play: randomjsa: Obama: Here's a train wreck in the making

GOP: How bout no?

Liberals: The party of NO! Waaah!

Ah yes, cognitive dissonance boy arrives on cue.


People should stop saying "cognitive dissonance" at every opportunity if they don't know what it means.
 
2012-12-03 01:41:56 PM  

sammyk: hen turn around and use the debt ceiling as a hostage again when groups like the chamber of commerce are urging republicans to make a deal on the debt ceiling.


Hey, it worked in Blazing Saddles.

i.imgur.com
 
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