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(The New York Times)   Obama: $1.6 trillion in taxes on the wealthy, $50 billion in short-term stimulus spending and $612 billion in recycled cuts. GOP: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. Obama: Ok...what's YOUR proposal then? GOP: *crickets*. The Party of 'No' is back, baby   (nytimes.com) divider line 456
    More: Obvious, President Obama, GOP, close election results, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner, George Bush, entitlement reform, Peter R. Orszag, Dan Pfeiffer  
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4313 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Dec 2012 at 12:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 12:41:26 PM

Jackson Herring: Fart_Machine: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I wonder if the President has heard of Paul Krugman? Cause he has done nothing but biatch about the Republican plan, I guess he saw one.

Close unspecified loopholes is a tax plan now?

It's sort of like how those crazy purge diets cleanse your body of unspecified toxins


it has echinacea

clears the bad humors
 
2012-12-03 12:41:34 PM

Muta: Shouldn't the House of Representatives be the ones submitting the proposals?


The President can propose anything he wants as an idea. The Speaker of the House theoretically has control of the agenda so that's why the negotiating part is over there. The actual introduction of the bill in the House will be the final agreement---- its supposed to happen after the agreement is reached so as to streamline the process--everyone will know what is coming down the pipe. At least until the Senate gets a hold of it.
 
2012-12-03 12:41:57 PM

bwilson27: Weaver95: Muta: US Constitution, Article 1, Section 7 -- All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives

Shouldn't the House of Representatives be the ones submitting the proposals?

the President is permitted to make suggestions. Hell, ALL of us are allowed to make suggestions on budget issues. its just that the President gets heard more often than you or I.

So... No budget then?


Who put these people in? Who is responsible for Boehner being there? The Tea Party? Which was started by who? Yeah, you got it; Fox news.
Thanks Fox!
 
2012-12-03 12:42:39 PM
This shiat is so much like dealing with my psycho ex-husband, I'm practically having flashbacks. I spent 12 years in family court with that shiathead. His motto was, "Whatever it is that you want, no matter what it is, the answer is No." That was his entire game plan. Except for the part where he'd keep me in court until I gave him exactly what he wanted.

/I won in the end. My "country" will never recover from it, though.
 
2012-12-03 12:42:41 PM
I hope they don't reach a compromise. The fiscal cliff needs to happen. Pushing it off into the future just means we're going to be facing a larger cliff.

Actually, fark it. We're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic at this point, might as well ride out the borrow and consume scheme as long as we can.
 
2012-12-03 12:43:01 PM
surplus?
Tax cuts for the rich
Deficit?
Tax cuts for the rich
War in Iraq?
Tax cuts for the rich
War in Afghanistan?
Tax cuts for the rich
High unemployment?
Tax cuts for the rich
Day that ends in Y
Tax cuts for the rich
 
2012-12-03 12:43:23 PM

Weaver95: they don't have a plan for Obama getting re-elected.


Actually their "Let's Elect Romney" strategy worked very well for the President's re-election.
 
2012-12-03 12:43:25 PM

Arkanaut: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I wonder if the President has heard of Paul Krugman? Cause he has done nothing but biatch about the Republican plan, I guess he saw one.

From his Op-Ed of this morning:

"So what are Republicans offering as an alternative? They say they want to rely mainly on spending cuts instead. Which spending cuts? Ah, that's a mystery. In fact, until late last week, as far as I can tell, no leading Republican had been willing to say anything specific at all about how spending should be cut.

The veil lifted a bit when Senator Mitch McConnell, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, finally mentioned a few things - raising the Medicare eligibility age, increasing Medicare premiums for high-income beneficiaries and changing the inflation adjustment for Social Security. But it's not clear whether these represent an official negotiating position - and in any case, the arithmetic just doesn't work."

Sounds like the same complaint from the rest of the Democratic camp.


didn't Romney try the same smoke and mirrors bullshiat? you'd figure the GOP would learn it's lesson....
 
2012-12-03 12:43:31 PM
this is only one the first page and i already remeber why i don't venture into this tab.. god america is so stupid
 
2012-12-03 12:44:59 PM
i was told eliminating earmarks would solve the budget crisis. i'm outraged
 
2012-12-03 12:45:27 PM
B-b-b-but bipartisanship!!!

/anyone who believed THAT talking point should look into that sandbox in Florida
 
2012-12-03 12:45:55 PM
Who wants to email Boehner's office asking they actually offer specifics as a citizen and voter?

Hell, maybe just email every GOP rep asking for specifics, as concerned constituents.

I'd hate to think the GOP reps are only getting "YEAH! Stand your farking ground!!" (whatever the fark that may be) emails from supporters.
 
2012-12-03 12:47:00 PM

bwilson27: bwilson27: Weaver95: Muta: US Constitution, Article 1, Section 7 -- All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives

Shouldn't the House of Representatives be the ones submitting the proposals?

the President is permitted to make suggestions. Hell, ALL of us are allowed to make suggestions on budget issues. its just that the President gets heard more often than you or I.

So... No budget then?

Who put these people in? Who is responsible for Boehner being there? The Tea Party? Which was started by who? Yeah, you got it; Fox news.
Thanks Fox!


Lol, because the 1% or so of the population that actually watches this channel has that much impact on the system.
 
2012-12-03 12:47:25 PM
Use the bully pulpit, Luke.
 
2012-12-03 12:48:09 PM

SlothB77: Obama wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. He wants those large cuts to defense to go into effect. He wants the economy to crash again. When it does, he can introduce new reforms that will significantly expand the reach and power of the federal government.


IF that is what Obama wants - then the GOP should do everything in their power to thwart him. Or is that too subtle a strategy for you to grasp?
 
Bf+
2012-12-03 12:48:11 PM
Rope a dope.
 
2012-12-03 12:49:00 PM

spif: bwilson27: bwilson27: Weaver95: Muta: US Constitution, Article 1, Section 7 -- All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives

Shouldn't the House of Representatives be the ones submitting the proposals?

the President is permitted to make suggestions. Hell, ALL of us are allowed to make suggestions on budget issues. its just that the President gets heard more often than you or I.

So... No budget then?

Who put these people in? Who is responsible for Boehner being there? The Tea Party? Which was started by who? Yeah, you got it; Fox news.
Thanks Fox!

Lol, because the 1% or so of the population that actually watches this channel has that much impact on the system.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good one, dude.
 
2012-12-03 12:50:46 PM
Where's that farking weasel Paul Ryan, their supposed numbers guy?
 
2012-12-03 12:51:34 PM

Rattlehead: Where's that farking weasel Paul Ryan, their supposed numbers guy?


He's not giving specifics, but he's got a great plan... Trust him.
 
2012-12-03 12:51:54 PM

JerseyTim: The Republicans don't want to negotiate. They want Obama to negotiate against himself. They're not going to offer counter proposals, they're only going to feign outrage at everything Obama does.


This this this and this. It's the oldest trick in the book -- make your opponent negotiate against himself.
 
2012-12-03 12:52:02 PM

spif: bwilson27: bwilson27: Weaver95: Muta: US Constitution, Article 1, Section 7 -- All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives

Shouldn't the House of Representatives be the ones submitting the proposals?

the President is permitted to make suggestions. Hell, ALL of us are allowed to make suggestions on budget issues. its just that the President gets heard more often than you or I.

So... No budget then?

Who put these people in? Who is responsible for Boehner being there? The Tea Party? Which was started by who? Yeah, you got it; Fox news.
Thanks Fox!

Lol, because the 1% or so of the population that actually watches this channel has that much impact on the system.


Lot's of people watch Fox.
 
2012-12-03 12:52:50 PM
Nice to know the GOPs oath to a petulant man chid named Grover takes precedence over the American people.
 
2012-12-03 12:52:54 PM

Spanky_McFarksalot: surplus?
Tax cuts for the rich
Deficit?
Tax cuts for the rich
War in Iraq?
Tax cuts for the rich
War in Afghanistan?
Tax cuts for the rich
High unemployment?
Tax cuts for the rich
Day that ends in Y
Tax cuts for the rich



encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

Whats that, Lassie? You say the rich need more tax cuts?
 
2012-12-03 12:53:09 PM

Weaver95: didn't Romney try the same smoke and mirrors bullshiat? you'd figure the GOP would learn it's lesson....


But they're RIGHT. They know they're right, in their heart of hearts. If they can just cut taxes one more time, if they can just get those poors to get their skin in the game, if they can just end entitlements once and for all, everyone (not dead of starvation or disease) will see how well the Republicans can govern once they've destroyed the government.
 
2012-12-03 12:53:51 PM

bwilson27: Rattlehead: Where's that farking weasel Paul Ryan, their supposed numbers guy?

He's not giving specifics, but he's got a great plan... Trust him.


He was going to sit down in a bipartisan fashion and figure out how to magically make all the numbers work - remember?

But now, since the usurpur was re-elected, Ryan has gone into hiding, and will keep his budget magic to himself. The country totally f'ed itself on that one
 
2012-12-03 12:53:53 PM
Republicans have said they're open to eliminating certain tax credits but won't name which because then they can rail against any Obama suggests as either too small to matter and/or unfairly burdening the rich. They will continue to do so until Obama brings up the big ticket items like the EITC or the home mortgage deduction, where they will say "you're twisting our arm, but we can agree to that." Then they can run on how Democrats jacked up taxes on the poor and middle class and how they will restore these popular credits if reelected.

Everyone's experienced it before: someone comes to you with a problem and vetoes every solution that you suggest that doesn't result in you taking a hit, that way you volunteered instead of being forced into it.
 
2012-12-03 12:55:14 PM
Heh... I love how the GOP insists on pushing the same agenda that lost them the Presidential election, as if these unspecified "loopholes" and tax increases/spending cuts that will primarily effect the middle classes and the poor will suddenly be acceptable to the American people if it's Boehner talking about them instead of Romney.

These farking plutocrats have no shame what-so-ever.
 
2012-12-03 12:55:17 PM
oi50.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-03 12:56:03 PM

Weaver95: Arkanaut: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I wonder if the President has heard of Paul Krugman? Cause he has done nothing but biatch about the Republican plan, I guess he saw one.

From his Op-Ed of this morning:

"So what are Republicans offering as an alternative? They say they want to rely mainly on spending cuts instead. Which spending cuts? Ah, that's a mystery. In fact, until late last week, as far as I can tell, no leading Republican had been willing to say anything specific at all about how spending should be cut.

The veil lifted a bit when Senator Mitch McConnell, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, finally mentioned a few things - raising the Medicare eligibility age, increasing Medicare premiums for high-income beneficiaries and changing the inflation adjustment for Social Security. But it's not clear whether these represent an official negotiating position - and in any case, the arithmetic just doesn't work."

Sounds like the same complaint from the rest of the Democratic camp.

didn't Romney try the same smoke and mirrors bullshiat? you'd figure the GOP would learn it's lesson....


Ahh hahahaha, oh you!
 
2012-12-03 12:56:32 PM
The mystery loophole closures will soon be revealed, once they do some research into which of their donors it won't impact.
 
2012-12-03 12:57:16 PM
"If we're able to stop Obama on [health care reform], it will be his Waterloo. It will break him."

Senator Jim DeMint, R, 2009

"If we're able to stop Obama on [spending cuts and tax increases], it will be his Waterloo. It will break him."

Senator Jim DeMint, R, 2012

/Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
 
2012-12-03 12:57:54 PM
Here's a hint, no deal will be made. Some stuff will happen, but not until after we've fallen off the 'fiscal cliff.' That has been the plan all along. At the end of the day the fiscal cliff will feel like when you accidentally scuff the bottom of your shoe on the floor as you're walking and half-trip. IOW, you won't notice it.
 
2012-12-03 12:59:09 PM

Grungehamster: Republicans have said they're open to eliminating certain tax credits but won't name which because then they can rail against any Obama suggests as either too small to matter and/or unfairly burdening the rich. They will continue to do so until Obama brings up the big ticket items like the EITC or the home mortgage deduction, where they will say "you're twisting our arm, but we can agree to that." Then they can run on how Democrats jacked up taxes on the poor and middle class and how they will restore these popular credits if reelected.

Everyone's experienced it before: someone comes to you with a problem and vetoes every solution that you suggest that doesn't result in you taking a hit, that way you volunteered instead of being forced into it.


www.hostingbytes.us
 
2012-12-03 12:59:21 PM

Arkanaut: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I wonder if the President has heard of Paul Krugman? Cause he has done nothing but biatch about the Republican plan, I guess he saw one.

From his Op-Ed of this morning:

"So what are Republicans offering as an alternative? They say they want to rely mainly on spending cuts instead. Which spending cuts? Ah, that's a mystery. In fact, until late last week, as far as I can tell, no leading Republican had been willing to say anything specific at all about how spending should be cut.

The veil lifted a bit when Senator Mitch McConnell, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, finally mentioned a few things - raising the Medicare eligibility age, increasing Medicare premiums for high-income beneficiaries and changing the inflation adjustment for Social Security. But it's not clear whether these represent an official negotiating position - and in any case, the arithmetic just doesn't work."

Sounds like the same complaint from the rest of the Democratic camp.


Nobody wants to introduce Entitlement Reform. Try getting elected after you just cut programs that benefit most of your voting public. So neither the Democrats or Republicans will introduce those cuts. The Problem is, the Republicans have been running on Entitlement reform so they need to introduce those reforms they want. The President ran on Higher taxes and he already introduced those taxes to the budget talk
 
2012-12-03 12:59:35 PM

Tigger: SlothB77: Obama wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. He wants those large cuts to defense to go into effect. He wants the economy to crash again. When it does, he can introduce new reforms that will significantly expand the reach and power of the federal government.

You are a farking crazy person.


if we do, everyone will blame the republicans anyways. Ok, i was catching up on rush limbaugh monologues over the weekend and that is what he was saying. i really was kind of just shooting first and aiming second with that one today. its a monday.
 
2012-12-03 01:03:31 PM
Whatever. Just, whatever. Forget everything that every economist has said about both raising taxes and cutting programs. That's too logical.

Republicans probably swallow the pill that President Obama won. Twice. And negotiations with him isn't going to put them out of a job. Leadership isn't always proving your side is right--it's often about admitting your side was wrong.
 
2012-12-03 01:03:54 PM

SlothB77: Obama wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. He wants those large cuts to defense to go into effect. He wants the economy to crash again. When it does, he can introduce new reforms that will significantly expand the reach and power of the federal government.


I have a non-crazy version of this to contribute to the thread:

Obama doesn't mind hitting the fiscal cliff. As the boss of the executive, he's been planning for every contingency, and his departments will be ready to deal with it if it actually hits. He's been working with people in the government to make sure no one is caught off-guard and things go, if not as well as he'd like, then at least relatively smoothly. He's been making sure the economy won't crash over this, at least.

So he doesn't have to worry. While the GOP have put literally every last one of their political eggs in the basket where he caves, he's made sure that he'll be (legitimately) viewed as doing exceptionally well with a bad situation created entirely by the GOP.
 
2012-12-03 01:04:43 PM
If you talk about the marginal utility of additional after tax income for high income households and they look at you as if you just had their college economics professor's head grafted to your shoulder. And promptly fall asleep.

I haven't paid too close attention to the tax rates and brackets, but have they been adjusted for inflation in the past 15-20 years? It's more a problem for six figure jobs, since most of you guys have been stuck with sub-inflation wage growth, but that guy making $300k this year might have a job that would have only paid $200k before inflation adjusted him above that $250k tax bracket.

/I know you don't get wishes by rubbing on a Gini Index.
 
2012-12-03 01:05:14 PM
This is the SAME plan Obama ran on and got elected on. Serious it's annoying how much the press pretends this is both sides fault so they don't looked bias.

The constitution says it's HOUSE's job to make the budget. They have no plan but Obama does and their are crying that he has not done what they want yet.

The press should be ripping the Republicans for this bullshiat.
 
2012-12-03 01:05:19 PM

the_geek: Here's a hint, no deal will be made. Some stuff will happen, but not until after we've fallen off the 'fiscal cliff.' That has been the plan all along. At the end of the day the fiscal cliff will feel like when you accidentally scuff the bottom of your shoe on the floor as you're walking and half-trip. IOW, you won't notice it.


Oh, I believe we will feel it. And quite well. I imagine they will dip their toe in it, just too see how bad it is
 
2012-12-03 01:05:21 PM

meat0918: Who wants to email Boehner's office asking they actually offer specifics as a citizen and voter?

Hell, maybe just email every GOP rep asking for specifics, as concerned constituents.

I'd hate to think the GOP reps are only getting "YEAH! Stand your farking ground!!" (whatever the fark that may be) emails from supporters.


But.... what if they respond? My GOP rep is Mitch McConnell. The horror!!!!
 
2012-12-03 01:06:08 PM

the_geek: Here's a hint, no deal will be made. Some stuff will happen, but not until after we've fallen off the 'fiscal cliff.' That has been the plan all along. At the end of the day the fiscal cliff will feel like when you accidentally scuff the bottom of your shoe on the floor as you're walking and half-trip. IOW, you won't notice it.


Yes, but in this case, finally, the melodramatic media and 'omfg cliff' narrative is working to the President's advantage and not the GOP.

They're already being pressured by their donors to make a deal asap, and with the media hyping things up into a frenzy, that adds pressure from the remnants of the Middle and business.

In the end, the cliff will happen and most won't notice...until 2013.
 
2012-12-03 01:06:15 PM

JerseyTim: The Republicans don't want to negotiate. They want Obama to negotiate against himself. They're not going to offer counter proposals, they're only going to feign outrage at everything Obama does.


I'm beginning to think they feel wronged by 'murika and have decided to go all Timotey McVeigh on it.
 
2012-12-03 01:06:17 PM

Il Douchey: Raharu: The party of no ideas except text cuts for rich of course and corporations and anybody who outsources labor to another country

Here we have somebody who is so far removed from actually contributing anything, from actually carrying some of the burden, that the very concepts of "taxes" and "tax cuts" are just a vague abstract notions to ridicule the rich with. People who actually pay taxes don't confuse them with textses


You certainly live up to your name don't you.
 
2012-12-03 01:06:50 PM
Taxes are like admission to Six Flags. A ticket costs the same for everyone. However, if you would like to skip all of the lines and dictate how things are run, you will have to rent out the park; and that costs a lot more money.
 
2012-12-03 01:06:55 PM

keylock71: Heh... I love how the GOP insists on pushing the same agenda that lost them the Presidential election, as if these unspecified "loopholes" and tax increases/spending cuts that will primarily effect the middle classes and the poor will suddenly be acceptable to the American people if it's Boehner talking about them instead of Romney.

These farking plutocrats have no shame what-so-ever.


They need another rally. A "Cut Entitlements to Protect Tax Cuts for the Rich" rally. I'd just like to see who would show up.
 
2012-12-03 01:07:20 PM
Allright, so who is playing the role of Newt in this drama? I've seen a production of this before...
 
2012-12-03 01:07:43 PM

Spanky_McFarksalot: surplus?
Tax cuts for the rich
Deficit?
Tax cuts for the rich
War in Iraq?
Tax cuts for the rich
War in Afghanistan?
Tax cuts for the rich
High unemployment?
Tax cuts for the rich
Day that ends in Y
Tax cuts for the rich


"Who pledged his loyalty?
The Warmaster.
Whom did we serve in faith?
The Warmaster.
From whom did we take our name?
The Warmaster.
Who was denied to us?
The Warmaster.
But whom shall we remake?
The Warmaster.
And who shall lead us to victory?
The Warmaster."
-Black Legion Catechism
 
2012-12-03 01:08:04 PM

TimonC346: And negotiations with him isn't going to put them out of a job.


No, that's the problem. It likely would.

Unless the GOP does something about the teabaggers and the MOAR CONSERAVTIVE WINS ELECTING mindset, anyone who negotiates with Obama opens themselves up to being sniped in their primary. And reelections are a prime motivation for politicians, so...yeah. I have little hope of compromise.
 
2012-12-03 01:08:12 PM
No subby is wrong with her headline.

The article says: " his answer boils down to this: you first." so as is typical, 0bama does not have a specific proposal only campaign slogans.

Besides 0bama has never said how his proposed tax cuts are going to create jobs or what he is going to do to deal with the other 90% of his reckless spending.
 
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