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(American Thinker)   The right to own a firearm was considered by the Framers of the Constitution in 1787 to be equal in importance to the right to speak freely, the right to peaceably assemble and the right to practice religion   (americanthinker.com) divider line 502
    More: Obvious, Framers of the Constitution, second amendment, due process clause, target shooting, Constitution of the United States, importance, U.S. Supreme Court, faiths  
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1724 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Dec 2012 at 8:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 07:01:34 PM

chuckufarlie: Bell-fan: whistleridge: True.

They also thought white people could own black people as chattel, the vote should be restricted solely to white males over the age of 21 who owned property, the loser of a presidential election should become VP, and that black people counted as 3/5 of a person for voting purposes (but said vote would be controlled by the white person who owned them).

The Founders weren't saints, and the Constitution isn't the Bible. They were greedy hypocritical farkups who managed to achieve some amazing things in spite of those imperfections, and the Constitution is a living document that has been required to change with the times.

So grow up, and accept that some regulation of your overpriced penis-extending toys may happen. And if your preacher doesn't stop politicking from the pulpit, your church may lose its tax-exempt status too. Wah.

/ why do I even bother posting in these stupid threads

I love this...

Here... let's take a moment to shift a paradigm for a moment.

"so grow up and accept that some regulation of your rights to free speech may happen. And if your newspaper/tvstation doesn't stop getting so nosy you can expect federal officials to start raiding their offices"

Look, the Constitution _isn't_ the bible... it's considerably more important given that it's the basis of our entire rule of law in the US. You have to either respect the foundation of the law or it has no basis.

In the same way that we treasure the 1st amendment we MUST give exactly the same weight to the 2nd amendment. Why? Because the premise for it is to provide us a means to enforce our rights when others seek to restrict them.

Furthermore the founders were revolutionaries... they saw that to keep or declare your liberty you must at times fight and shed blood to protect those rights. They also saw first had how europe had disarmed its populace and enforced a dictatorial regime over its people and sought to not have the same happen in the US.

There is nothing abou ...


You're a fool. I'm sorry to have to say it as bluntly as that... but it's the truth. Look. My background. Cryptolinguist and intelligence analyst for NSA while in the USAF. Now, let me give you the "by the numbers" of how it works.

Handguns and civilian weapons are not that great against a modern military, but they aren't meant to be. The idea is that if the entire civillian population is armed, then when you move troops in, ever single civilian can shoot and or kill one or more enemy combatant. Maybe you arent' familiar with the concept of attrition but there are VASTLY more civillians than military. And the civilians that aren't killed, well they get to gather up the military grade weapons that the enemy had. Or raid military ammo and supply dumps, burn supplies, destroy crops (thus denying the enemy food) burn up fuel (at which point those tanks become useless as do planes and helicopters.

In short, you don't face the military in a head on large assault ground force like you're implying... you guerrilla them to death, steal their stuff, and before you know it you have your own fully armed military force. And Gee, that's how every revolution works. The peasants rise up, grab the tools of the oppressor and turn them on them. The idea is that you start WITH weapons first off... and that makes the turn around time for overthrow much quicker.
 
2012-12-03 07:01:37 PM

chuckufarlie: redmid17: chuckufarlie: I am sure that there is some sort of militia meeting that you need to get to.

Up to a point, morons like you are entertaining. You and your buddies have moved past that. It is sad to see a bunch of emasculated monkeys who believe that they can restore their manhood with some mythical stand against the government. Maybe if you boys would just stop marrying your sisters, things might improve.

But anybody SOOOOOO stupid that he believes that there is armed conflict between the people of this country and the government is beyond help or hope. It is not going to happen, cooter, get over it.

And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

Did I ever say I'd fight against the government? Did I ever say I was part of a militia? You're rambling and rambling on about shiat you clearly don't understand. It's quite amusing.

you fit the profile. Don't try to deny it at this point. Not that I give a care one way or the other but at least you could be honest about it. I do not understand your type, you are too cowardly to even admit what you are.


Fit the profile of a militia member? I mean I own guns and I'm a middle class white guy. I don't belong to a militia. I don't hold combat readiness drills in the woods on the weekend. I'm not stockpiling rations and ammo for the "inevitable" seizure of my guns by Obama and his cohorts. I hunt, but honestly I'm not very good at it -- don't have a ton of time to dedicate to the prep work. I live in the middle of the 3rd biggest city in the country and use public transit almost exclusively. If I fit the profile of a potential militia member, then I imagine roughly 75% of US gun owners do as well.

That's a pretty big militia.
 
2012-12-03 07:03:16 PM

chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.


...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.
 
2012-12-03 07:09:01 PM

Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....


And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.
 
2012-12-03 07:10:34 PM

give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.


I like the "sniper behind every blade of grass" quote but apparently he didn't really say it :-/
 
2012-12-03 07:16:23 PM

Fail in Human Form: give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.

I like the "sniper behind every blade of grass" quote but apparently he didn't really say it :-/


Bummer.
 
2012-12-03 07:23:13 PM

chuckufarlie: Who are you planning on fighting against in this war?

I'm not planning on fighting anyone. It's just idiotic to say that guerilla warfare wouldn't work against the US army when it's the only strategy that's worked against them for the last 60 years...

No, I would say that you are idiotic to say that it would work. There is one big difference between those wars in the past and what you are projecting and I bet you do not even see its importance.

Those wars were fought in foreign countries that we had no real interest in. We did not intend to stay there forever, we went in for a purpose. And at some point the American people no longer saw the importance of that purpose or why out sons should die in some foreign land.

If some group tries to start a war in the USA, you are never going to get to the point where the American people decide that the war is not important enough to continue fighting it. They are going to see that force as a threat to their way of life and will demand that the government pursue that group and wipe it out. They will demand that the military use every weapon short of nukes to wipe that group out.

And that group may try to get foreign support, but it is not going to get it. The Navy will see to that.


If you think that this uprising would get popular support because the "wrong" person got elected, you'd better think about it again. There is nothing going on now that would cause people to support some sort of uprising. And there is nothing that is going to happen either. The system prevents it.


Yes, I'm sure that THAT was precisely the same sentiment that English Loyalists in 1776 thought would be the case too.

You see, there's this thing called History... you should look into it some time and maybe read about it... I hear you can learn all sorts of things by studying it and seeing how it repeats itself.

*throws up hands*

seriously man. You have perhaps the most overly simplistic world view I've ever seen.

If the US gov't went and enacted some law that ended up causing the US population to rise up against it we could end up with a genuine civil war on our hands... it has happened before ya know.

Let's just say that happened...asymmetrical warfare would ensue. Only in this case the US troops would be bereft of some key things. First and foremost amongst them the nearly unlimited logistical support from home. Rebels would attack supply lines right at their source... Food, clothing, ammo. All those would suddenly be in very finite supply as rebels destroy, sabotage, or steal the means of production of support of federal troops.
Never mind how many troops would flat outright refuse to fire on Americans in revolt or desert and join the rebels bringing with them arms, experience, and intelligence on what the federal gov't was planning.
 
2012-12-03 07:28:50 PM

dittybopper: I suppose I could find more with better google-fu, but using simple queries I found at least 3 farkers who claim to belong to both the NRA and the ACLU. You sarcastically contended that there were none.


I'm another. Had it listed in my profile for years.
 
2012-12-03 07:29:15 PM

vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.


Ding ding ding... and there we have one (of the many) huge gaping holes in Chuckufarlie's argument.
 
2012-12-03 07:31:08 PM

give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.

I like the "sniper behind every blade of grass" quote but apparently he didn't really say it :-/

Bummer.


It would have been doubly ironic if he had tho.
Near the end when Japan was facing a land invasion, they were trying to arm every remaining soldier and peasant with anything that could shoot. Even makeshift single shot weapons.

dl.dropbox.com

The less fortunate would have to make do with swords or even spears.
They planned to fight a very long and bitter war.

/The US expected so many casualties, it ordered enough purple hearts to last them through the gulf wars. 
/It was a big motivation to use the Atomic bomb and force a swift end.
 
2012-12-03 07:37:37 PM

Bell-fan: chuckufarlie: Who are you planning on fighting against in this war?

I'm not planning on fighting anyone. It's just idiotic to say that guerilla warfare wouldn't work against the US army when it's the only strategy that's worked against them for the last 60 years...

No, I would say that you are idiotic to say that it would work. There is one big difference between those wars in the past and what you are projecting and I bet you do not even see its importance.

Those wars were fought in foreign countries that we had no real interest in. We did not intend to stay there forever, we went in for a purpose. And at some point the American people no longer saw the importance of that purpose or why out sons should die in some foreign land.

If some group tries to start a war in the USA, you are never going to get to the point where the American people decide that the war is not important enough to continue fighting it. They are going to see that force as a threat to their way of life and will demand that the government pursue that group and wipe it out. They will demand that the military use every weapon short of nukes to wipe that group out.

And that group may try to get foreign support, but it is not going to get it. The Navy will see to that.


If you think that this uprising would get popular support because the "wrong" person got elected, you'd better think about it again. There is nothing going on now that would cause people to support some sort of uprising. And there is nothing that is going to happen either. The system prevents it.

Yes, I'm sure that THAT was precisely the same sentiment that English Loyalists in 1776 thought would be the case too.

You see, there's this thing called History... you should look into it some time and maybe read about it... I hear you can learn all sorts of things by studying it and seeing how it repeats itself.

*throws up hands*

seriously man. You have perhaps the most overly simplistic world view I've ever seen.

If the US gov't ...


What went on in 1776 was a situation that could not possibly happen again. That was a case of being governed from England with no say in what happened.

People in the USA have a say in what happens. We have elections. We have courts.

Tell me, Einstein, WHY would the government enact a law that would cause the majority of the people to rise up against it? How is the US Congress going to pass a law that would so enrage the people that it would cause a war to break out? Why would they want to do that? We are the ones that put them into office, what is going to cause them to turn on us like that?

You say that I have a simplistic world view? What you have is a world view that is not grounded in reality.

Let me put this into focus for you. You are afraid that the Congress is going to pass a law that conservatives do not agree with, say gun control. You do not see a majority of the people rising up against the government, you see a minority of the people getting upset over a law that the majority approves of and starting a war to resolve it.

You believe that if the government passes a law that you personally do not agree with, you have the right to start a war to have things your way.

Does that sound about right?
 
2012-12-03 07:43:21 PM

Bell-fan: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

Ding ding ding... and there we have one (of the many) huge gaping holes in Chuckufarlie's argument.


As I pointed out before, the people of the USA have very little interest in what is going on in Afghanistan. We are not in Afghanistan to permanently occupy it. We are fighting a small group that runs when confronted by superior force. They are not winning the war. They are just causing a lot of harm.

The people in the USA gradually lose interest in these foreign interventions that result in the troops being pulled out. You start a war against the US govt. from within the borders of the USA and the people are going to tell the military to go at you with all forces available. You are not going to have enough popular support because most of the people are actually satisfied with the situation as it is. There is going to be no point down the road when the govt. decides to pull the troops out of the conflict because it is going to be happening here.

What is going on in Afghanistan now is not what is going to happen here if some group decides to start a war.
 
2012-12-03 07:48:12 PM

Bell-fan: chuckufarlie: Bell-fan: whistleridge: True.

They also thought white people could own black people as chattel, the vote should be restricted solely to white males over the age of 21 who owned property, the loser of a presidential election should become VP, and that black people counted as 3/5 of a person for voting purposes (but said vote would be controlled by the white person who owned them).

The Founders weren't saints, and the Constitution isn't the Bible. They were greedy hypocritical farkups who managed to achieve some amazing things in spite of those imperfections, and the Constitution is a living document that has been required to change with the times.

So grow up, and accept that some regulation of your overpriced penis-extending toys may happen. And if your preacher doesn't stop politicking from the pulpit, your church may lose its tax-exempt status too. Wah.

/ why do I even bother posting in these stupid threads

I love this...

Here... let's take a moment to shift a paradigm for a moment.

"so grow up and accept that some regulation of your rights to free speech may happen. And if your newspaper/tvstation doesn't stop getting so nosy you can expect federal officials to start raiding their offices"

Look, the Constitution _isn't_ the bible... it's considerably more important given that it's the basis of our entire rule of law in the US. You have to either respect the foundation of the law or it has no basis.

In the same way that we treasure the 1st amendment we MUST give exactly the same weight to the 2nd amendment. Why? Because the premise for it is to provide us a means to enforce our rights when others seek to restrict them.

Furthermore the founders were revolutionaries... they saw that to keep or declare your liberty you must at times fight and shed blood to protect those rights. They also saw first had how europe had disarmed its populace and enforced a dictatorial regime over its people and sought to not have the same happen in the US.

There i ...


You can tell me that you have any kind of credentials that you want, you cannot prove it and I don'[t care what you say.

Do you think that a military force is going to move around so you and your buddies can take pots shots at them with handguns? All they have to do is have a drone fly around over your compound and then fire a missile at you when a large enough group gets together.

If this military force is serious, they will not care about civilian casualties and will just start bombing and shelling towns and cities.


But let me repeat - RED DAWN is a movie. It would not work in the real world.

Not that I believe that you inhabit the real world.
 
2012-12-03 07:50:35 PM

give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.


It is not that he did not want to invade the USA. He did not want to go to war against the USA.

IF you had actually read any history books, you would understand that nobody in charge in Japan had any idea about invading the USA. That was never their plan.
 
2012-12-03 07:51:32 PM

vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.


you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??
 
2012-12-03 08:26:16 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??


I don't think he's the one that has missed the point of this thread. So I'll leave you with a quote "To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence".
 
2012-12-03 08:34:42 PM

Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

I don't think he's the one that has missed the point of this thread. So I'll leave you with a quote "To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence".


and I will leave YOU with this: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
 
2012-12-03 08:35:57 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??


How have you evaded a farkie label for all this time? Wait, I know why.. because you have never been in danger of creating post formed on sound, rational thinking.
 
2012-12-03 08:42:11 PM

give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.


Jesus Christ. The admiral never said the quote you are refering to. Look it up.
 
2012-12-03 08:43:37 PM

chuckufarlie: Bell-fan: chuckufarlie: Bell-fan: whistleridge: True.

They also thought white people could own black people as chattel, the vote should be restricted solely to white males over the age of 21 who owned property, the loser of a presidential election should become VP, and that black people counted as 3/5 of a person for voting purposes (but said vote would be controlled by the white person who owned them).

The Founders weren't saints, and the Constitution isn't the Bible. They were greedy hypocritical farkups who managed to achieve some amazing things in spite of those imperfections, and the Constitution is a living document that has been required to change with the times.

So grow up, and accept that some regulation of your overpriced penis-extending toys may happen. And if your preacher doesn't stop politicking from the pulpit, your church may lose its tax-exempt status too. Wah.

/ why do I even bother posting in these stupid threads

I love this...

Here... let's take a moment to shift a paradigm for a moment.

"so grow up and accept that some regulation of your rights to free speech may happen. And if your newspaper/tvstation doesn't stop getting so nosy you can expect federal officials to start raiding their offices"

Look, the Constitution _isn't_ the bible... it's considerably more important given that it's the basis of our entire rule of law in the US. You have to either respect the foundation of the law or it has no basis.

In the same way that we treasure the 1st amendment we MUST give exactly the same weight to the 2nd amendment. Why? Because the premise for it is to provide us a means to enforce our rights when others seek to restrict them.

Furthermore the founders were revolutionaries... they saw that to keep or declare your liberty you must at times fight and shed blood to protect those rights. They also saw first had how europe had disarmed its populace and enforced a dictatorial regime over its people and sought to not have the same happen in the US.

There i ...

You can tell me that you have any kind of credentials that you want, you cannot prove it and I don'[t care what you say.

Do you think that a military force is going to move around so you and your buddies can take pots shots at them with handguns? All they have to do is have a drone fly around over your compound and then fire a missile at you when a large enough group gets together.

If this military force is serious, they will not care about civilian casualties and will just start bombing and shelling towns and cities.


But let me repeat - RED DAWN is a movie. It would not work in the real world.

Not that I believe that you inhabit the real world.


Who said they'd have a compound? Is the army going to risk massive civilian casualties if the rebels are in a heavily populated area?
 
2012-12-03 08:46:59 PM

manimal2878: give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.

Jesus Christ. The admiral never said the quote you are refering to. Look it up.


The blades of grass one isn't but he said that conquering Hawaii and San Francisco wouldn't be enough. They would have to capture DC
 
2012-12-03 08:51:17 PM

give me doughnuts: And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.


The Japanese never even had plans or the idea to invade the US. That's like me saying:
"Ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the Czech Republic."

(and Alaska doesn't count)
 
2012-12-03 08:57:26 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??


You can avoid it by not making flawed arguments.
 
2012-12-03 09:20:15 PM

redmid17: manimal2878: give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.

Jesus Christ. The admiral never said the quote you are refering to. Look it up.

The blades of grass one isn't but he said that conquering Hawaii and San Francisco wouldn't be enough. They would have to capture DC


Yeah, fine, but that has nothing to do with the intent behind trotting out the, "behind every blade of grass," non-quote.
 
2012-12-03 09:22:09 PM

chuckufarlie: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

I don't think he's the one that has missed the point of this thread. So I'll leave you with a quote "To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence".

and I will leave YOU with this: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."


His quote was from Sun Tzu, who didn't think much of people who only saw the obvious.

Your plan is to hit guerrillas with drones.
The insurgents in Afghanistan know this is what happens if they attack in the open. So they took to hiding out in the homes of other civilians. Using threats and bribes to secure safe passage. They dig tunnels between houses and have no qualms about cross dressing. They will try to hit and run before we can properly respond.

In short, they didn't attempt to do the obvious. They evade drones, leaving us with no clear targets. They can think tactically, so as warriors they are formidable.

You are then assuming that no one else can match a bunch of farmers when there isn't anything special about them.
They've just been at it a while.
 
2012-12-03 09:25:55 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

How have you evaded a farkie label for all this time? Wait, I know why.. because you have never been in danger of creating post formed on sound, rational thinking.


coming from you, that means absolutely nothing.
 
2012-12-03 09:28:08 PM

way south: chuckufarlie: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

I don't think he's the one that has missed the point of this thread. So I'll leave you with a quote "To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence".

and I will leave YOU with this: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

His quote was from Sun Tzu, who didn't think much of people who only saw the obvious.

Your plan is to hit guerrillas with drones.
The insurgents in Afghanistan know this is what happens if they attack in the open. So they took to hiding out in the homes of other civilians. Using threats and bribes to secure safe passage. They dig tunnels between houses and have no qualms about cross dressing. They will try to hit and run before we can properly respond.

In short, they didn't attempt to do the obvious. They evade drones, leaving us with no clear targets. They can think tactically, so as warriors they are formidable.

You are then assuming that no one else can match a bunch of farmers when there isn't anything special about them.
They've just been at it a while.


a group of people attacking the US govt. from within the country would be labelled traitors. They would be hunted down and killed.

Don't believe me, give it a try. I just hope that you are on the news when they shoot you down.
 
2012-12-03 09:30:57 PM

vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

You can avoid it by not making flawed arguments.


if you think that my argument is flawed, are you willing to go up against an M1 with your rifle?
 
2012-12-03 09:33:14 PM

redmid17: manimal2878: give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.

Jesus Christ. The admiral never said the quote you are refering to. Look it up.

The blades of grass one isn't but he said that conquering Hawaii and San Francisco wouldn't be enough. They would have to capture DC


They had no intention to conquer Hawaii, San Francisco or DC. They knew that they did not have a large enough army to do so. Too bad that you are not that bright.

That quote of yours is pure fiction. Make believe, like all of your posts.
 
2012-12-03 09:46:42 PM

chuckufarlie: redmid17: manimal2878: give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.

Jesus Christ. The admiral never said the quote you are refering to. Look it up.

The blades of grass one isn't but he said that conquering Hawaii and San Francisco wouldn't be enough. They would have to capture DC

They had no intention to conquer Hawaii, San Francisco or DC. They knew that they did not have a large enough army to do so. Too bad that you are not that bright.

That quote of yours is pure fiction. Make believe, like all of your posts.


Actually it's in a letter written by Yamanoto to am ultra Japan nationalist. Pretty well documented but yes he did not plan on invading. Nonetheless its a valid quote
 
2012-12-03 09:50:17 PM
The right to own a firearm was considered by the Framers of the Constitution in 1787 to be equal in importance to the right to speak freely, the right to peaceably assemble and the right to practice religion

And the libtards in 2012 actually believe you shouldn't be allowed to protect yourself with a firearm, should only speak freely on subjects they agree with, only assemble if you're bashing ideas they don't agree with, and not be able to hold Cub Scout meetings in the school gym.
 
2012-12-03 09:50:54 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

You can avoid it by not making flawed arguments.

if you think that my argument is flawed, are you willing to go up against an M1 with your rifle?


...and that's why Afghanistan is pacified and a stable democracy.
 
2012-12-03 09:59:33 PM
http://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto

Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United States, it is not enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House. I wonder if our politicians, among whom armchair arguments about war are being glibly bandied about in the name of state politics, have confidence as to the final outcome and are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices.As quoted in At Dawn We Slept (1981) by Gordon W. Prange, p. 11; this quote was stated in a letter to Ryoichi Sasakawa prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Minus the last sentence, it was taken out of context and interpreted in America as a boast that Japan would conquer the entire continental United States. The omitted sentence showed Yamamoto's counsel of caution towards a war that would cost Japan dearly.

/apologies as it is posted from my phone
 
2012-12-03 10:12:50 PM
webpages.charter.net

Yawn.
 
2012-12-03 10:24:47 PM
Trolls have to eat too, I suppose.

You deduct this crap off your taxes, Drew Curtis?
 
2012-12-03 10:31:03 PM

vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

You can avoid it by not making flawed arguments.

if you think that my argument is flawed, are you willing to go up against an M1 with your rifle?

...and that's why Afghanistan is pacified and a stable democracy.


Do you really think that a war started by US civilians against the govt. would play out the same way that Afghanistan has? If you think that the US would not pursue traitors in our country with the utmost vigor, you are demented.

Now, with that in mind, answer the question again.
 
2012-12-03 10:33:04 PM

redmid17: chuckufarlie: redmid17: manimal2878: give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.

Jesus Christ. The admiral never said the quote you are refering to. Look it up.

The blades of grass one isn't but he said that conquering Hawaii and San Francisco wouldn't be enough. They would have to capture DC

They had no intention to conquer Hawaii, San Francisco or DC. They knew that they did not have a large enough army to do so. Too bad that you are not that bright.

That quote of yours is pure fiction. Make believe, like all of your posts.

Actually it's in a letter written by Yamanoto to am ultra Japan nationalist. Pretty well documented but yes he did not plan on invading. Nonetheless its a valid quote


taken out of context. But what would the truth mean to you?
 
2012-12-03 10:55:58 PM

chuckufarlie: redmid17: chuckufarlie: redmid17: manimal2878: give me doughnuts: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: But do not tell me that you need your rifle to defend your freedom. Take a look at the arsenal of even a second rate military and then compute how long you would last against it, armed with you rifle or automatic weapon.

Outstanding question ask the Iraqis, Afghanis, Viet Cong, ect....

And ask Admiral Yamamoto why he didn't want to invade the U.S.

Jesus Christ. The admiral never said the quote you are refering to. Look it up.

The blades of grass one isn't but he said that conquering Hawaii and San Francisco wouldn't be enough. They would have to capture DC

They had no intention to conquer Hawaii, San Francisco or DC. They knew that they did not have a large enough army to do so. Too bad that you are not that bright.

That quote of yours is pure fiction. Make believe, like all of your posts.

Actually it's in a letter written by Yamanoto to am ultra Japan nationalist. Pretty well documented but yes he did not plan on invading. Nonetheless its a valid quote

taken out of context. But what would the truth mean to you?


I quoted the entire thing. How the fark can it be out of context? I know he didn't want the war. He knew he couldn't win, in part because he knew Japan could not conquer the US.
 
2012-12-03 10:58:48 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

You can avoid it by not making flawed arguments.

if you think that my argument is flawed, are you willing to go up against an M1 with your rifle?

...and that's why Afghanistan is pacified and a stable democracy.

Do you really think that a war started by US civilians against the govt. would play out the same way that Afghanistan has? If you think that the US would not pursue traitors in our country with the utmost vigor, you are demented.

Now, with that in mind, answer the question again.


Alas, poor chuck, the universe of possible rebellions is not conveniently limited to your clumsy scenario.
 
2012-12-04 01:43:08 AM
why does American Thinker use that oversized font?
 
2012-12-04 02:41:21 AM

Raptop: why does American Thinker use that oversized font?


Because most if not all of their readers are old people yelling at clouds. Makes the talking points much easier to see, too.
 
2012-12-04 02:54:58 AM
(thatescalatedquickly.gif)

Jeez Chuck...
 
2012-12-04 05:47:43 AM

chuckufarlie: way south: chuckufarlie: Fail in Human Form: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

I don't think he's the one that has missed the point of this thread. So I'll leave you with a quote "To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence".

and I will leave YOU with this: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

His quote was from Sun Tzu, who didn't think much of people who only saw the obvious.

Your plan is to hit guerrillas with drones.
The insurgents in Afghanistan know this is what happens if they attack in the open. So they took to hiding out in the homes of other civilians. Using threats and bribes to secure safe passage. They dig tunnels between houses and have no qualms about cross dressing. They will try to hit and run before we can properly respond.

In short, they didn't attempt to do the obvious. They evade drones, leaving us with no clear targets. They can think tactically, so as warriors they are formidable.

You are then assuming that no one else can match a bunch of farmers when there isn't anything special about them.
They've just been at it a while.

a group of people attacking the US govt. from within the country would be labelled traitors. They would be hunted down and killed.

Don't believe me, give it a try. I just hope that you are on the news when they shoot you down.


Again you are putting the cart before the horse. You don't know how a war will start, who will control the weapons or how they will be countered, but you've decided it's won because drones exist.
You don't know how people will respond to the governments actions or even what the cause may be, but you've decided that everyone will agree the leadership is right when it lobs a bomb into one of our own cities.

The point of view of a combatant in Afghanistan, Libya, Syria or even cuba and Vietnam (in their day) is not the same as that of a western chairforce general who thinks all problems are solved by launching a missile at people who disagree with him. What people think about the US government in a century may not be what they think now.

The idea that "wars can't happen because government is always right" is short sighted. Governments aren't these bastions of peace and stability you think they are.
The US government has had a good run, buy we'd be naive to think America is above all risk of human failure because apple pie and hot dogs have vaccinated it. That's just a nationalist fantasy.

/Groups of men acting out against the government are what triggered the US revolution.
/They were labeled traitors by the king and would have been hung if caught.
Whether a revolution is remembered as terrorism or the start of a new chapter will be decided by who wins.
/and who is going to win in a civil war is not always obvious.
 
2012-12-04 08:09:42 AM
Man people on here that own handguns apparently think they can take down a drone, f-15, or take out a tank with their peashooters.

What glamorized version of the world do you live in. This is not the movies. You remember they found Saddam hiding in a spider hole right? Osama had not moved in how long for fear of discovery?

To think that you could openly revolt and that the military would leave weapons and ammo unguarded so your militia dorks could go "liberate it" sure that will happen. Perhaps they will leave the directions for how to taxi, fly, engage, and shoot down a pilot in a f-15 too.

Seriously, the same group that shouts about how a bunch of losers in the desert with assault weapons can't stand up to the US military might, somehow believe that if the viva la revolution they will be able to stand against that very same force, with less weapons at their disposal.

This is how it goes. First you lose power, then you lose water, internet has already gone. The National Guard embargoes your town. After a week there are only 5-10 of you left and everyone else that is sane has turned themselves over to the people with power, water, and internet. Then you get arrested for treason or just shot.

Most of the populous wouldn't stop to spit on a burning orphan, you really think their fat asses are going to break away from X-factor to help you stage a coup? Go write some military slash/vore/fanfic or something, because that is the only place your fantasy can really stand up to any form of scrutiny.
 
2012-12-04 08:11:02 AM

chuckufarlie: BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

How have you evaded a farkie label for all this time? Wait, I know why.. because you have never been in danger of creating post formed on sound, rational thinking.

coming from you, that means absolutely nothing.


What an original and snappy comeback! At least you have your parroting down, so that's nice.
 
2012-12-04 08:15:16 AM
P.S. Those "freedom fighters" in Afghan, they have access to bombs, grenades, and RPGs. You guys don't even have those tools at your disposal.

So why are you not fighting for the rights to have those weapons, you know, in case the government gets out of hand.

Perhaps revolution is not your real purpose? You do know it is okay to think guns are cool without hating everyone that doesn't like guns right? We will accept that you have a hobby we don't. You just have to accept that we are not okay with you bringing your "hunting device" to our baby showers or our public swimming pools. Because honestly, who in the hell are you so afraid of? We in exchange will understand when you go on long rants about how everyone is against you and how only ole betsy makes you feel save at night, even though we think it is crazy. Deal?
 
2012-12-04 09:05:01 AM

thiefofdreams: Because honestly, who in the hell are you so afraid of? We in exchange will understand when you go on long rants about how everyone is against you and how only ole betsy makes you feel save at night, even though we think it is crazy. Deal?


In 2009..
800,000 aggravated assaults
90,000 rapes
15,000 murders

Stop acting like being in a situation that warrants shooting someone in self defense is as rare as winning the lottery.
 
2012-12-04 01:44:37 PM

vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: And it if did, you and your buddies with your automatic weapons are going to get smoked by one Predator Drone that you never saw coming. The End.

...and that's why Afghanistan has been won and is now a peaceful nation.

you miss the point. Why am I nor surprised??

You can avoid it by not making flawed arguments.

if you think that my argument is flawed, are you willing to go up against an M1 with your rifle?

...and that's why Afghanistan is pacified and a stable democracy.

Do you really think that a war started by US civilians against the govt. would play out the same way that Afghanistan has? If you think that the US would not pursue traitors in our country with the utmost vigor, you are demented.

Now, with that in mind, answer the question again.

Alas, poor chuck, the universe of possible rebellions is not conveniently limited to your clumsy scenario.


The sad thing is that he can't seem to see that things aren't as simple as he wants them to be.

Rebels adapt to conditions... and they don't just fit right into some tactics that make them super vulnerable to a conventional force.

But according to chuck there... no, rebels would just sit around being targets for govt forces.
 
2012-12-04 01:48:02 PM

thiefofdreams: Man people on here that own handguns apparently think they can take down a drone, f-15, or take out a tank with their peashooters.

What glamorized version of the world do you live in. This is not the movies. You remember they found Saddam hiding in a spider hole right? Osama had not moved in how long for fear of discovery?

To think that you could openly revolt and that the military would leave weapons and ammo unguarded so your militia dorks could go "liberate it" sure that will happen. Perhaps they will leave the directions for how to taxi, fly, engage, and shoot down a pilot in a f-15 too.

Seriously, the same group that shouts about how a bunch of losers in the desert with assault weapons can't stand up to the US military might, somehow believe that if the viva la revolution they will be able to stand against that very same force, with less weapons at their disposal.

This is how it goes. First you lose power, then you lose water, internet has already gone. The National Guard embargoes your town. After a week there are only 5-10 of you left and everyone else that is sane has turned themselves over to the people with power, water, and internet. Then you get arrested for treason or just shot.

Most of the populous wouldn't stop to spit on a burning orphan, you really think their fat asses are going to break away from X-factor to help you stage a coup? Go write some military slash/vore/fanfic or something, because that is the only place your fantasy can really stand up to any form of scrutiny.


You don't know much about guerilla tactics do you?
 
2012-12-04 02:09:35 PM

Bell-fan: The sad thing is that he can't seem to see that things aren't as simple as he wants them to be.

Rebels adapt to conditions... and they don't just fit right into some tactics that make them super vulnerable to a conventional force.

But according to chuck there... no, rebels would just sit around being targets for govt forces.


It's not even the most likely scenario.

It's also kind of silly to get into specifics, as who knows how things will develop or when such a revolt would ever take place. For example, after we run out of oil...
 
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