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(Philly.com)   Governor Christie surprises those who say marijuana should be legalized and taxed - by remembering the part about taxing it, which they didn't really mean   ( philly.com) divider line
    More: Amusing, marijuana laws, over-the-counter drugs, governors, marijuana  
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5818 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Dec 2012 at 11:12 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 09:03:44 AM  
Duh.
 
2012-12-03 09:09:09 AM  
If prescription pharmaceuticals are normally subject to the state sales tax, marijuana should be as well. If not, then it shouldn't. Not terribly complicated.
 
2012-12-03 09:23:33 AM  
If you want to keep marijuana legal, you need to get legislators addicted to the tax revenue from it.
 
2012-12-03 09:26:05 AM  
Good. Generate revenue, instead of just spending tax dollars to keep it criminalized and just fuel a prison industry that is a sinkhole for taxpayers. Maybe even use some of those tax dollars to help fund programs that treat drug addiction and rehabilitate the folks who have been jailed for this idiotic war on drugs...
 
2012-12-03 09:26:17 AM  
I live in Washington state, where we have just instituted a 33% tax increase on booze.

The pot-heads are in for a nasty surprise in a year or two when the Tax and Spenders meet up with the Light up and Tokers.
 
2012-12-03 09:26:32 AM  
Taxing is your friend. If it gets taxed, it makes revenue, and the legislators will be a lot more willing to drop those stupid 'medical' bits that everyone is ignoring/abusing anyway.
 
2012-12-03 09:29:25 AM  

mr_a: The pot-heads are in for a nasty surprise in a year or two when the Tax and Spenders meet up with the Light up and Tokers.


Or perhaps it'll be a happy surprise in a year or three when WA is more financially stable than most of the other states, while providing better quality of government services, on the backs of people who are happy to pay the increased taxes in exchange for the peace of mind of being able to engage in their intoxicant of choice without too much worry of legal consequence.
 
2012-12-03 09:46:31 AM  

incendi: mr_a: The pot-heads are in for a nasty surprise in a year or two when the Tax and Spenders meet up with the Light up and Tokers.

Or perhaps it'll be a happy surprise in a year or three when WA is more financially stable than most of the other states, while providing better quality of government services, on the backs of people who are happy to pay the increased taxes in exchange for the peace of mind of being able to engage in their intoxicant of choice without too much worry of legal consequence.


I truly hope so, but somehow I see a scenario where all the tax revenue from marijuana disappears into the legislature's pet projects..sort of like the tobacco tax "windfall"
 
2012-12-03 09:47:26 AM  

whistleridge: Taxing is your friend. If it gets taxed, it makes revenue, and the legislators will be a lot more willing to drop those stupid 'medical' bits that everyone is ignoring/abusing anyway.


Yep.
 
2012-12-03 10:05:54 AM  

Snarfangel: If you want to keep marijuana legal, you need to get legislators addicted to the tax revenue from it.


THIS!

I don't care if it's unusual for prescriptions to be taxed, if you can get governments to see it as a revenue stream, the battle to ultimately legalize it is over half won.
 
2012-12-03 10:08:01 AM  
No, we really mean tax it, just like Alcohol and Tobacco. Stop pissing and moaning about how we need new sources of revenue if you keep overlooking this one.
It's not just the weed itself that will help the economy, but all the associated stuff that goes along with it.
 
2012-12-03 10:11:45 AM  

Snarfangel: If you want to keep marijuana legal, you need to get legislators addicted to the tax revenue from it.


Heh, yep.
 
2012-12-03 10:52:33 AM  
Isn't one of the major arguments for legalization is the ability to tax it?
 
2012-12-03 10:57:26 AM  

mr_a: I truly hope so, but somehow I see a scenario where all the tax revenue from marijuana disappears into the legislature's pet projects..sort of like the tobacco tax "windfall"


Legislative incompetence will always be a threat, no matter what the revenue source.
 
2012-12-03 11:16:03 AM  

GAT_00: Isn't one of the major arguments for legalization is the ability to tax it?


That, plus the massive reduction in spending on jailing/prosecuting drug offenses, plus the huge increase of police presence for other crimes, plus the international impact of shifting grow ops from third world assholes to domestic Monsanto/private farms.
 
2012-12-03 11:17:12 AM  
Wouldnt pot be cheaper if more sources could grow it without fear or prosecution from the local authorities?
 
2012-12-03 11:18:06 AM  

incendi: If prescription pharmaceuticals are normally subject to the state sales tax, marijuana should be as well. If not, then it shouldn't. Not terribly complicated.


FTFA: "Prescription and over-the-counter medications are exempt from the sales tax."

So no, it shouldn't be taxed.
 
2012-12-03 11:18:57 AM  

GAT_00: Isn't one of the major arguments for legalization is the ability to tax it?


But, this wasn't full legalization, just legalization of it as medicine, and prescription drugs are not taxed. Subby is trying to paint the pro-legalization side as hypocrites, while subtly moving the goal posts of what qualifies as "legalization".
 
2012-12-03 11:19:00 AM  

Snarfangel: If you want to keep marijuana legal, you need to get legislators addicted to the tax revenue from it.


Consider me amongst the many who completely changed their minds after reading this comment.
 
2012-12-03 11:19:17 AM  
Does the state government regulate the price of pot too? How does it work? or how will it work?

My wife and I were discussing how in about 20 years it will probably be legal in the entire country (at least decriminalized at the 1 0z level which is still a lot)
 
2012-12-03 11:19:24 AM  
the risk/reward on this one is still so murky i can't blame anybody for fighting every inch.

if all risk (of arrest, prosecution, incarceration) was removed, the cost of making the product would plummet and could have insane taxes added to it without affecting the end consumer price one iota.

as is, there is no such removal of risk - yes, you may not have the county sheriff running you in, but the DEA still exists, and for a grower the federal limits are such that it doesn't take much to be on their radar.

i'm all for taxing the bejesus out of it - it has an inflated cost already, and if the risk were dwindled it could bear that tax baked into the final cost with absolutely no problems. let's start dialing back federal laws on the topic at some point, too tho - it simply won't work absent that.
 
2012-12-03 11:20:30 AM  
Good. I'm for marijuana legalization, and taxing it makes it more legitimate. It's sad that the tax is on medical marijuana, but once the government and lawmakers realize that they can make money off of weed then they'll be less opposed to it.
 
2012-12-03 11:20:34 AM  
It costs $100 to get a prescription for "medical" use. Surely they can handle a 7% sales tax.
 
2012-12-03 11:21:03 AM  

graggor: Wouldnt pot be cheaper if more sources could grow it without fear or prosecution from the local authorities?


"Cheaper" is not a goal of regulation for anything buy basic foodstuffs in the US. Usually the intent of regulation is to make things more expensive for the benefit of an industry with a lobby, look at how much subsidy money was paid off over the years to have farmers not grow tobacco and drop the price.
 
2012-12-03 11:21:33 AM  

GAT_00: Isn't one of the major arguments for legalization is the ability to tax it?


Sure. Sales tax, production tax, a tax on gross weight delivered, or any of the other thousand ways or times a tax can be applied? A special tax levied only on cannabis producers?

Shiat, you can have manufacturers grow, sort, grind, roll and package them, and of the packs aren't stamped with that little seal (you can find them on the bottoms of cigarette packs as well), you're in violation of tax law.
 
2012-12-03 11:22:31 AM  

GAT_00: Isn't one of the major arguments for legalization is the ability to tax it?


I think you have to differentiate between arguments that make sense and arguments that will actually work.

The argument that makes sense is from the angle of freedoms - the government needs a reason to make it illegal it and there is no good reason to do so for marijuana when alcohol and cigarettes remain legal. You can't list a single thing about pot that isn't worse with alcohol or cigarettes. I consider this the only argument for legalization.

The arguments that will actually work are all also logically void. We can tax it, it will reduce the burden on prisons and increased jobs here. As if whether we can make money off of it should be relevant. Sadly it is.
 
2012-12-03 11:23:33 AM  

Snarfangel: If you want to keep marijuana legal, you need to get legislators addicted to the tax revenue from it.


Problem legislators will have is that if they tax too much, the rate of people growing their own (it's ridiculously easy) will go up. So it has a nice little ceiling built into it.

Win/win IMO.
 
2012-12-03 11:24:05 AM  
And they said pot wasn't a gateway drug.

First you try some booze, then pot, then you're on to harder things, like tax policy and next thing you know your parents find T-bills in your sock drawer. What would your mother say to THAT?
 
2012-12-03 11:24:16 AM  

heap: if all risk (of arrest, prosecution, incarceration) was removed, the cost of making the product would plummet and could have insane taxes added to it without affecting the end consumer price one iota.


On the contrary; were taxes through the roof compared to cost, you'd start to see a black market situation despite the legality of the product. If taxes on cigarettes in New York were $100 a pack, there'd be busses of people flocking to the state to sell cigarettes from other states at, say, $80 a pack, making a huge profit.

/something something laffer curve
 
2012-12-03 11:27:36 AM  
Oh my, how horrible. Just terrible. Will cause the death of millions.
 
2012-12-03 11:27:50 AM  
Did many of you not read the article?

Nothing to do with marijuana for regular consumption but medical marijuana. Medicine in NJ is not taxed. The Gov is trying to make an exception for marijuana.
 
2012-12-03 11:27:50 AM  
Really, trollmitter? Because the most common pro-pot argument I hear is, "Just legalize it and tax the sh*t out of it!"

Oh but you were trying to obfuscate that in hopes of creating a flamewar, I gotcha.

/Yes I read TFA.
//Doesn't change sh*t.
///Medical marijuana has always been a backdoor way to legalizing it.
////I can't help it if Reed Gusciora doesn't understand that.
 
2012-12-03 11:30:11 AM  

mr_a: I live in Washington state, where we have just instituted a 33% tax increase on booze.

The pot-heads are in for a nasty surprise in a year or two when the Tax and Spenders meet up with the Light up and Tokers.


I was led to believe that privatization would bring prices down.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-03 11:30:20 AM  

sprawl15: On the contrary; were taxes through the roof compared to cost, you'd start to see a black market situation despite the legality of the product.


there's really no need to go off into analogyland with other products - what i stated was that the product *already* has a huge markup, on account of the risk. removal of that markup allows for a huge tax that wouldn't affect the end price.

i'm not talking about taxes jacking up the price, causing a run to the black market to avoid it. i'm talking about the fact that the product has a lot of leeway already - the cost to produce is not what causes the end consumer price - that is based almost entirely on the risk factor. remove that risk, and you've got room to tax the bejesus out of it, and the end result staying either the same price...or being even cheaper.

that only works if there is adjustment to the federal laws on the topic - and there is absolutely no indication or impetus for this actually happening. because of that, i absolutely see why people are arguing on the tax - the risk of the government putting you in a little box for years of your life is still there for producers, so they will continue to charge a jacked up price - add taxes on top of that, and you are doing exactly what you described - encouraging a black market that already exists.
 
2012-12-03 11:30:51 AM  

mrlewish: Did many of you not read the article?

Nothing to do with marijuana for regular consumption but medical marijuana. Medicine in NJ is not taxed. The Gov is trying to make an exception for marijuana.


Read what I said: medical marijuana is a backdoor to legalization. Always has been. You can cite all you want about the medicinal properties of it, but the fact is, even if that's true, it's not a case alone without the intent behind it. So let's say that marijuana is a proven safe, nonaddictive painkiller. Okay, synthesize the active ingredient, legalize that, sell it via prescription and leave the joints, bongs and vaporizors out of it.

Oh no, that won't do, you say? We have to let people inhale burning plant matter? THC pills aren't acceptable for you? Why is that? Hmm.....
 
2012-12-03 11:31:59 AM  
Tax the grower with a yearly grower's license.
Tax the distributor.
Tax the seller with a yearly seller's license.
Tax the consumer.
Profit.
 
2012-12-03 11:32:01 AM  

whistleridge: Taxing is your friend. If it gets taxed, it makes revenue, and the legislators will be a lot more willing to drop those stupid 'medical' bits that everyone is ignoring/abusing anyway.


My only problem with taxing the herb is that you still wind up with LEO's throwing non-violent offenders in jail. I thought one of the major arguments for decriminalization was to reduce our prison population burden.
 
2012-12-03 11:32:11 AM  

mr_a: I live in Washington state, where we have just instituted a 33% tax increase on booze.

The pot-heads are in for a nasty surprise in a year or two when the Tax and Spenders meet up with the Light up and Tokers.


What I mean to say is that it's almost as if the free-marketeers were dealt a nasty surprise when they met up with the "free market".
 
2012-12-03 11:32:31 AM  
Medical marijuana is, we all know, just back door legalization. Look at California - "I have a hangnail, I need a weed scrip!"

So spare me the argument about whether other prescriptions are taxed. Besides, its 7%, I'm sure there are oversight costs unique to marijuana dispensaries since they are separate from regular pharmacies. Pay it.

The amusing part is that you will suddenly have lots of very young, low income adults who like to smoke weed noticing the government doing this. Maybe it will engage them to register, vote, take some interest in what their state legislature does. Forget the tea party, maybe the weed party will form around freeing their beloved cannabis from the cruel tyrrany.

Their rallying cry could be "intoxication without taxation!"

Or maybe not. But you get the idea.
 
2012-12-03 11:33:29 AM  

Lord_Baull: Tax the grower with a yearly grower's license.
Tax the distributor.
Tax the seller with a yearly seller's license.
Tax the consumer.
Profit.


Agreed and on that day, I'll be first in line for a state seller's license.
 
2012-12-03 11:33:30 AM  

verbaltoxin: medical marijuana is a backdoor to legalization


i've always thought of it as the front door.

after all, if making the case for the utility of an item, while dispelling myths about the negatives of it happens to be medical in nature, who's fault is that, really?

the people who are making use of it, or the people who lied about it to begin with?
 
2012-12-03 11:34:41 AM  

mrlewish: Did many of you not read the article?

Nothing to do with marijuana for regular consumption but medical marijuana. Medicine in NJ is not taxed. The Gov is trying to make an exception for marijuana.


Naw, I beg to differ. You can look at my login name and see which way I stand on legalization, so I'm not offering a biased opinion. I think the marijuana folks are trying to do the old bait and switch. They threw the tax language in the proposal because they wanted to make it look sweeter to legislators and when no one said anything about taxing it, they thought they'd gotten over. Then Christie says, "not so fast" and now they want to act like marijuana is Advil. I think they're getting cocky. 10 years ago, had you told them that in 2012, NJ would make medicinal marijuana legal but you had to pay a tax they would have taken that deal without blinking.
 
2012-12-03 11:34:47 AM  

MisterRonbo: very young, low income adults who like to smoke weed

www.moviequotesandmore.com
 
2012-12-03 11:34:49 AM  

mr_a: I live in Washington state, where we have just instituted a 33% tax increase on booze.

The pot-heads are in for a nasty surprise in a year or two when the Tax and Spenders meet up with the Light up and Tokers.



Welcome to 2012. I say that because I assume you've just woken from a coma since 1992.
 
2012-12-03 11:36:07 AM  
I'm still trying to figure out how State's will handle driving under the influence of marijuana given difficulties in spot checking vs. how long it can stay in your system via a blood test that would be needed for a conviction...
 
2012-12-03 11:36:13 AM  

verbaltoxin: Agreed and on that day, I'll be first in line for a state seller's license.


Even if it's $750,000, like a NYC taxi medallion?
 
2012-12-03 11:36:20 AM  
Recreational marijuana should be legal and taxed.

Medical marijuana should taxed like any other herbal medicine.
 
2012-12-03 11:37:00 AM  

heap: verbaltoxin: medical marijuana is a backdoor to legalization

i've always thought of it as the front door.

after all, if making the case for the utility of an item, while dispelling myths about the negatives of it happens to be medical in nature, who's fault is that, really?

the people who are making use of it, or the people who lied about it to begin with?


You're right in that the dispensary (Notice how it isn't sold at Walgreens, but a dispensary just for pot) has a front door. But it's still being sly about what we all know.

I'm all for legalization, but the days of sliding medical marijuana past the state legislature are coming to a close. We need to move to full-on, overt decriminalization or legalization, or some hybrid of both.
 
2012-12-03 11:37:01 AM  

mr_a: I live in Washington state, where we have just instituted a 33% tax increase on booze.

The pot-heads are in for a nasty surprise in a year or two when the Tax and Spenders meet up with the Light up and Tokers.



Just like home brewers worry about it?
 
2012-12-03 11:37:11 AM  
Prescription and over-the-counter medications are exempt from the sales tax.

"If you use medical marijuana as a pharmaceutical, then you shouldn't be taxed for it. . . . You don't punish a person who's terminally ill and needs the drug," Gusciora said.

Seems obvious.

Tax revenue should come from the manufacturing process (payroll and corp taxes, you know job creators)
 
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