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(HyperVocal)   Bob Costas in the crosshairs of gun owners   (hypervocal.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, Bob Costas, Jason Whitlock, NBC Studios, Nicole Brown Simpson, Brit Hume, Kansas City Chiefs, Andy Levy  
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15929 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Dec 2012 at 2:22 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 03:38:46 AM  

libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?

She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.


Even sadder then? i didn't find that detail in the articles i read. All i read was he killed her 3 months after the birth of their daughter and then went to the stadium and spoke to staff/coaches and then shot himself in their presence.

Thank you for your input- i always look for your comments.

/i feel even worse now.
//i don't favorite anyone, but i respect you and a few others.
 
2012-12-03 03:39:18 AM  
Human beings are very inventive when it comes maiming, torturing and massacring one another. I don't really think taking away guns is going to change that. As a species we are so destructive and violent against one another, I actually feel worse when I hear a cop has shot a person's pet then I would if he/she just shot the person. I guess I'm not a big fan of people (that includes myself). There, I said it.
 
2012-12-03 03:40:08 AM  

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?


No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?
 
2012-12-03 03:40:28 AM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Ok, being a Canuckistani, who owns no guns, may I make the following suggestion. Granted that I'm sure that it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.

Require people to take a gun safety course when they first decide to purchase a weapon, and pass, a la a licensing exam. As part of said course, have a portion (say an hour of a weekend long course in my view) where people are told how to recognize situations where their judgment can be clouded and how to get out of or defuse those situations.

From my cultural viewpoint, you guys take guns to an extreme. In terms of gun ownership and use you guys are waaaaayyyy ahead of most of the western world. Sadly crimes where guns are invioved are much more common. Access can correlate almost directly with use, just like places with lots of cars have lots of accidents.

You guys have fun with trying to come up with an answer on that issue. I'm glad that here in Canada, it's much more rare that I hear about gun violence.


Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.
 
2012-12-03 03:41:45 AM  

fusillade762: Serious Black: I'm planning on going out and buying myself some SWAT-grade armor, a Stinger missile launcher, and a bunch of Uzis with radioactive bullets when I get home from work. That seems to be the best way to protect myself at this point with everyone going gonzo for guns lately.

Pussy. I'm getting a nuke. MAD, FTW!


I was planning on working my way up to some nukes. Step two would be a ring of Patriot missile launchers around my house, and step three would be a new version of Tsar Bomba.
 
2012-12-03 03:41:59 AM  
Link

Something to consider.
 
2012-12-03 03:42:02 AM  

rugby-n-beers: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

They do have the highest per capita rate of suicide, and the majority of those (also a nation leading percentage) are by firearm.


I posted the statistics. He can continue to pretend they don't exist. I get the impression he is all about willfully ignoring anything that doesn't fit his narrative/red herring argument.
 
2012-12-03 03:42:23 AM  

Frank N Stein: puffy999: So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.

Alright then. Why did he blame the gun? Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself. Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL? Why not the media's, including NBC's, role in perpetuating and glorifying the "gun culture"? Why take the simpleton's route of blaming the gun for the action of the man?

It's been brought up. Now defend it.


Because a gun allows pretty much anyone to kill. Benoit was lifting weights and shooting steroids for years. farking duh. The majority of FARK members are (ok, like me) out of shape and could maybe fist-fight for a few minuted before getting winded; they could not kill people with bare hands. But put a gun into their hands and they don't even have to run after you (as opposed to a knife or a club) and unlike say a bow or other projectile weapon even low-cap firearms can unload a lot of hell in a hurry.

Is there no little voice in your head that tells you this shiat before your fingers go to work?
 
2012-12-03 03:42:48 AM  

Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.


Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?
 
2012-12-03 03:45:19 AM  

smells_like_meat: Link

Something to consider.


As soon as I found out about this story on Saturday afternoon, I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation. I'm convinced, though, that the only way football is going to completely change (or go away completely) is if Peyton Manning's head is literally ripped off of his neck in the middle of the Super Bowl.
 
2012-12-03 03:45:33 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


You are right. Americans really should reconsider the bloodbath on the roads.
 
2012-12-03 03:46:15 AM  
I guess the idea that the terrible tragedy of a man killing his girlfriend and then himself (with a gun) providing a springboard to mention that too many other people die by killing themselves (with guns) is just more than some people can bear.

I seriously doubt that if the same guy had killed his girlfriend and himself by driving drunk and going over a cliff, and Costas had taken the opportunity at halftime to speak out against drunk driving, that an equal number of NFL fans and Farkers would be infuriated about his "pushing his agenda" against drinking, driving, or Miller Lite. Or perhaps they would. People get outraged by so many things these days.

Say what you like, but it's not wrong to point out that a lot of people use handguns to kill themselves and their significant others when they are depressed and/or angry. This is a bad thing. They might well find another way to do it, if the handguns were not available; however, it's undeniable that handguns make it much easier and quicker than if they had to use baseball bats or crossbows. That would be a bad thing too, and then people could be angry that Costas was making a halftime speech about people using crossbows to commit suicide, and they'd still look like insensitive idiots.
 
2012-12-03 03:46:18 AM  

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?


Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.
 
2012-12-03 03:47:36 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: logruszed: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

The time and place to discuss the reality of a possible epidemic of firearms enabled violence must be when and where nobody is looking.

The time and place is when there can be a discussion...

Not when one person is giving me his unsolicited and unquestioned opinion during an entertainment/sporting event... and taking advantage of a personal family tragedy to ply his unsolicited opinion.


That is how a television works, you're confusing it with Skype. If you have a problem with being told things and being unable to engage in a discussion stick to Skype and call-in shows (hint: call-in shows only work when they are live. Watching rebroadcasts won't work).
 
2012-12-03 03:49:13 AM  

thegod082: I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation.


I'd say that since jealous guys have been killing their SOs long before football was around, head injuries aren't really needed in the equation.
 
2012-12-03 03:49:36 AM  

Gyrfalcon: I guess the idea that the terrible tragedy of a man killing his girlfriend and then himself (with a gun) providing a springboard to mention that too many other people die by killing themselves (with guns) is just more than some people can bear.

I seriously doubt that if the same guy had killed his girlfriend and himself by driving drunk and going over a cliff, and Costas had taken the opportunity at halftime to speak out against drunk driving, that an equal number of NFL fans and Farkers would be infuriated about his "pushing his agenda" against drinking, driving, or Miller Lite. Or perhaps they would. People get outraged by so many things these days.

Say what you like, but it's not wrong to point out that a lot of people use handguns to kill themselves and their significant others when they are depressed and/or angry. This is a bad thing. They might well find another way to do it, if the handguns were not available; however, it's undeniable that handguns make it much easier and quicker than if they had to use baseball bats or crossbows. That would be a bad thing too, and then people could be angry that Costas was making a halftime speech about people using crossbows to commit suicide, and they'd still look like insensitive idiots.


I think people like being outraged, I really do. Everyone wants to push his/her politics on everyone else.
 
2012-12-03 03:50:34 AM  

Mock26:
Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.


That independent study seems unskewed
 
2012-12-03 03:51:16 AM  

Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.


A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link
 
2012-12-03 03:51:40 AM  

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?


I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:03 AM  

XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?

She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.

Even sadder then? i didn't find that detail in the articles i read. All i read was he killed her 3 months after the birth of their daughter and then went to the stadium and spoke to staff/coaches and then shot himself in their presence.

Thank you for your input- i always look for your comments.

/i feel even worse now.
//i don't favorite anyone, but i respect you and a few others.


Yes, even sadder, IMO as well.

I just learned a few hours ago the she was a cousin of Jamaal Charles' wife.

The sad keeps piling on.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:08 AM  

thegod082: smells_like_meat: Link

Something to consider.

As soon as I found out about this story on Saturday afternoon, I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation. I'm convinced, though, that the only way football is going to completely change (or go away completely) is if Peyton Manning's head is literally ripped off of his neck in the middle of the Super Bowl.


Robert Griffin III could have the same effect, and he would have the added bonus of being, what, 14 years younger than Peyton Manning? Of course, the odds of RGIII making it to the Super Bowl anytime soon are pretty slim.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:14 AM  

log_jammin: thegod082: I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation.

I'd say that since jealous guys have been killing their SOs long before football was around, head injuries aren't really needed in the equation.


Do you follow the NFL, or professional sports? I myself am not blaming it on head injuries -- I don't know the facts. But I had strong suspicions that the media, correctly or incorrectly, would eventually tie it to head injuries, because they've probably been the biggest ongoing story in the NFL for the last few years.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:42 AM  

libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.


That 2.5 million number is all over right wing sites. Not worked up at all. If he is trolling, so is 76% of the right wing.

Wait...
 
2012-12-03 03:53:18 AM  

libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?

She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.

Even sadder then? i didn't find that detail in the articles i read. All i read was he killed her 3 months after the birth of their daughter and then went to the stadium and spoke to staff/coaches and then shot himself in their presence.

Thank you for your input- i always look for your comments.

/i feel even worse now.
//i don't favorite anyone, but i respect you and a few others.

Yes, even sadder, IMO as well.

I just learned a few hours ago the she was a cousin of Jamaal Charles' wife.

The sad keeps piling on.


Oh for fark's sake.
Damn.

/Damn.
//Damn.
//DAMN!
 
2012-12-03 03:53:21 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.


I'm telling you human beings are bad news.
 
2012-12-03 03:55:19 AM  

logruszed: (hint: call-in shows only work when they are live. Watching rebroadcasts won't work)


That was funny.
 
2012-12-03 03:55:53 AM  

BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.



Aye.
It's humans.
 
2012-12-03 03:56:12 AM  

thegod082: Do you follow the NFL, or professional sports?


does darts count?

thegod082: I myself am not blaming it on head injuries -- I don't know the facts. But I had strong suspicions that the media, correctly or incorrectly, would eventually tie it to head injuries, because they've probably been the biggest ongoing story in the NFL for the last few years.


They'll link it because it will sell.

Not trying to argue with you. just saying.
 
2012-12-03 03:56:54 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.


Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.
 
2012-12-03 03:59:43 AM  

XplodedSynapses: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.


Aye.
It's humans.


Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.
 
2012-12-03 04:00:17 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


The problem is that "smart, reasonable restrictions" usually mean "only the rich and well-connected get to own them".
 
2012-12-03 04:01:04 AM  

Gyrfalcon: I guess the idea that the terrible tragedy of a man killing his girlfriend and then himself (with a gun) providing a springboard to mention that too many other people die by killing themselves (with guns) is just more than some people can bear.

I seriously doubt that if the same guy had killed his girlfriend and himself by driving drunk and going over a cliff, and Costas had taken the opportunity at halftime to speak out against drunk driving, that an equal number of NFL fans and Farkers would be infuriated about his "pushing his agenda" against drinking, driving, or Miller Lite. Or perhaps they would. People get outraged by so many things these days.

Say what you like, but it's not wrong to point out that a lot of people use handguns to kill themselves and their significant others when they are depressed and/or angry. This is a bad thing. They might well find another way to do it, if the handguns were not available; however, it's undeniable that handguns make it much easier and quicker than if they had to use baseball bats or crossbows. That would be a bad thing too, and then people could be angry that Costas was making a halftime speech about people using crossbows to commit suicide, and they'd still look like insensitive idiots.



Concise.
 
2012-12-03 04:01:32 AM  

Krieghund: What is wrong with you people that listen to Costas in the first place? I realize not everyone owns a Tivo, but damn, leave the room or mute him or something.


major bingo.

other intelligent things i've heard during football games: (interview) Pro Athlete: "I knew if we could stay ahead in points we would win the game".
 
2012-12-03 04:02:18 AM  

mediablitz: Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.


humans are humans no matter where they are. But life, laws, and customs are all very different across the globe. Gun ownership is just one in a ton of other factors.
 
2012-12-03 04:02:27 AM  

mediablitz: XplodedSynapses: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.


Aye.
It's humans.

Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.


i do not want to sound like a smartass, but guns don't shoot all by themselves.
 
2012-12-03 04:03:53 AM  

XplodedSynapses: mediablitz: XplodedSynapses: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.


Aye.
It's humans.

Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.

i do not want to sound like a smartass, but guns don't shoot all by themselves.


Of course, if i'd actually read all the comments to the quote, i'd know better than to say that?
 
2012-12-03 04:04:48 AM  

mediablitz:
Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.


That article says the exact opposite of what you are implying it says. It says Switzerland has one of the lowest homicide rates around (.5 per 100,000), despite easy access to guns. All it says is that 48% of the very few homicides it does have are committed with guns. You will note that means that the majority of the very few homicides in Switzerland are committed with something other than a gun, despite their easy access there.

The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.
 
2012-12-03 04:05:56 AM  

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


Ever hear of drunk driving?
 
2012-12-03 04:06:14 AM  

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


Ever heard of drunk driving?
 
2012-12-03 04:06:23 AM  

Rent Party: The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.


a violent people who do things like not treat the mentally ill and dismiss poverty.
 
2012-12-03 04:07:42 AM  
This behavior disgusts me so I'll just leave this here.

"Funny how the people who want to remove guns from the street also expect a police officer to show up instantly when they call 911 and do violence on their behalf to keep them safe. I wonder if what they're really scared of is the concept of taking personal responsibility for your own safety."
 
2012-12-03 04:08:28 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.


There are a number of issues you're either intentionally or accidentally ignorant of or just failing to represent:

Not the least of which is that due to mandatory militia/military service (the actual reason so many guns are out there) a psychiatric evaluation determines eligibility for firearms ownership. If you're a dangerous nut you don't get a farking gun.

Private sales don't need a permit but there is a mandatory paper trail and the seller is quite accountable.

The certainly do have a lower per-capita gun crime rate than here some of which can be explained by the above but they also do not have the same socioeconomic problems we have here. They are largely a homogenous people, have universal healthcare, they are by U.S. standards basically Socialist with a strong social welfare system and little relative poverty.

So you want everyone to have guns like Switzerland? Cool. When do we get our socialism and free universal healthcare? Also when do we kick out all the white people (since according to FOX they are the minority now, that just seems easier).
 
2012-12-03 04:09:12 AM  

log_jammin: Rent Party: The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.

a violent people who do things like not treat the mentally ill and dismiss poverty.


Those would be violent acts by my definition.
 
2012-12-03 04:09:32 AM  

Securitywyrm: the concept of taking personal responsibility for your own safety."


how does that have fark all to do with the guy who shot his GF then himself?
 
2012-12-03 04:10:18 AM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: If I were truly sure I was in the right when I defended gun culture, unlimited gun rights, etc., I wouldn't go yelping like a scalded dog every time someone suggests we might want to enact a law or two to dial that culture back a notch.
Instead, I would quietly say "Fark you, enact what you want, I'M the one with the guns."

Those who squawl like 5-year-olds deprived of a toy are telling me that deep down inside, they know their position is indefensible. The sad thing is, they're convinced someone is about to actually do away with the entire 2nd Amendment. Shallow-minded extremism, that is. No wonder they don't want a gun control debate; such a conversation would require nuanced thought.


That squall you refer to is the concept of not giving an inch. Those who'd rather keep their rights are well-aware of when concessions are made in the direction of eliminating or restricting rights. It's very difficult to get them back again.
 
2012-12-03 04:10:28 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Heart disease is the #1 killer in America...Perhaps while we're on the subject of banning things for their 'useless nature' we can go ahead and add ALL fast-food joints to the list.
 
2012-12-03 04:12:17 AM  

mediablitz: Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.


I would read it... but their site apparently REALLY wants me to buy a new surround sound system... since the full screen ad re-opens every time I close it. Maybe my puter is broken.

The opposite end of the spectrum would be places like D.C. where gun violence was (still is) out of control... even though guns were illegal.

I had to submit to an extensive background check, take a safety class and demonstrate competent handling of the weapon when I got my CCW. I have no issues with that. I have no issue with regulations/laws designed to keep guns away from criminals. What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens (as they do in most cities in CA for example).
 
2012-12-03 04:14:42 AM  

TheEdibleSnuggie: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Heart disease is the #1 killer in America...Perhaps while we're on the subject of banning things for their 'useless nature' we can go ahead and add ALL fast-food joints to the list.


Oh come on. LIVING is the #1 killer in America.
 
2012-12-03 04:15:33 AM  

mediablitz:

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"


According to that link, when it comes to gun homicides Montana is 30th, with 2.31 per 100,000.

Also, from the FBI:
img.photobucket.com
img.photobucket.com
img.photobucket.com

Montana:
Firearm robberies (per 100,000): 49th
Firearm assaults (per 100,000): 30th
 
2012-12-03 04:15:47 AM  

XplodedSynapses: TheEdibleSnuggie: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Heart disease is the #1 killer in America...Perhaps while we're on the subject of banning things for their 'useless nature' we can go ahead and add ALL fast-food joints to the list.

Oh come on. LIVING is the #1 killer in America.


i am fairly sure, it's a global epidemic.
 
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