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(HyperVocal)   Bob Costas in the crosshairs of gun owners   (hypervocal.com) divider line 508
    More: Asinine, Bob Costas, Jason Whitlock, NBC Studios, Nicole Brown Simpson, Brit Hume, Kansas City Chiefs, Andy Levy  
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15900 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Dec 2012 at 2:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-03 02:26:28 AM
There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.
 
2012-12-03 02:26:31 AM
Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.
 
2012-12-03 02:27:16 AM
you are watching NBC it's like a long running Elephants turd.
 
2012-12-03 02:28:33 AM
this should be good

/fark you Costas
 
2012-12-03 02:30:18 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are? And when they decide to take them away completely? Do you say "No biggie, I didn't need a gun anyway."
 
2012-12-03 02:32:00 AM
NBC pushes their agenda throughout their program list, from Monday Night Football to Law and Order. Costas is just a cog in this.
 
2012-12-03 02:32:33 AM

SumDumGit: And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are?


The Supreme Court does, and even Scalia thinks there can and should be restrictions. Just not "absolute personal ownership" bans, like what was overturned in DC.
 
2012-12-03 02:32:39 AM
Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.
 
2012-12-03 02:34:36 AM
Strange...never heard Costas get all that upset before about a guy killing his girlfriend, then himself...

OH, RIGHT...these were actually important people because NFL.
 
2012-12-03 02:35:38 AM

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.
 
2012-12-03 02:36:15 AM

Frank N Stein: NBC pushes their agenda throughout their program list, from Monday Night Football to Law and Order. Costas is just a cog in this.


The General Electric agenda? Or the Comcast agenda.
 
2012-12-03 02:39:50 AM

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Actually Whitlock is a Fox Sports journalist from Kansas City.
 
2012-12-03 02:41:47 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.
 
2012-12-03 02:43:30 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Look, I am not getting into this argument with you. It is like arguing how many angels can fit on a pin head?
 
2012-12-03 02:43:34 AM
I wondered how long this thread would take to turn up.
 
2012-12-03 02:44:15 AM

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Lots of people die due to our car culture, and our athletics culture, hell our food culture.

The problems aren't the tools we use to hurt ourselves, merely that we have a systematic breakdown of society that prevents us from recognizing the difference between WHAT we are doing vs WHY we are doing it.

This young man committed violence on not only himself. but another human being. That is what needs to be addressed. Not the fact that he used a lump of metal to do so.

Was the announcer wrong? I would say he had a national pulpit to make his statement from. I don't agree with his words, but he's got stones to say it so bluntly on a national stage. I just wish that he would have gotten to the root of the people instead of beating the same old tired drum.
 
2012-12-03 02:44:59 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.


... One of a very, very small number of NFL starting players, just yeserday, shot his child's mother dead in cold blood, then drove to the practice facility and home of his employer, an NFL team, and shot himself in front of a front office man and the team's head coach.

So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.
 
2012-12-03 02:45:33 AM

carnifex2005: people don't need handguns


Says who? You?

carnifex2005: every other Western nation in the world already knows.


Citation needed.
 
2012-12-03 02:46:18 AM
Who the fark cares about what random people on twitter say or care about?
 
2012-12-03 02:47:44 AM
I saw that, live, and the first thing I thought was, "Oh man, he's gonna be in trouble now..."

Pray 4 Mojo: Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Can we? That would be awesome and save me a fortune, every year. Unfortunately, there's no real public transportation where I live, so I have to keep mine.
 
2012-12-03 02:49:58 AM

puffy999: So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.


Alright then. Why did he blame the gun? Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself. Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL? Why not the media's, including NBC's, role in perpetuating and glorifying the "gun culture"? Why take the simpleton's route of blaming the gun for the action of the man?

It's been brought up. Now defend it.
 
2012-12-03 02:50:10 AM

Frank N Stein: carnifex2005: people don't need handguns

Says who? You?

carnifex2005: every other Western nation in the world already knows.

Citation needed.


you are a puppet: Frank N Stein: NBC pushes their agenda throughout their program list, from Monday Night Football to Law and Order. Costas is just a cog in this.

The General Electric agenda? Or the Comcast agenda.


You forgot to answer this.
 
2012-12-03 02:50:10 AM

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


You mean like Mexico?

Or like Switzerland?
 
2012-12-03 02:50:30 AM
Some people have a big problem with having a political agenda pushed down their throats during a football game. The problem isn't with the misguided beliefs but with the stage on which they were espoused.
 
2012-12-03 02:50:48 AM

ElwoodCuse: SumDumGit: And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are?

The Supreme Court does, and even Scalia thinks there can and should be restrictions. Just not "absolute personal ownership" bans, like what was overturned in DC.


B-b-b-ut this is America! The constitution says every family needs at least one fully automatic machine pistol, just for huntin'!

/Or so I've heard.
//But switchblades and brass knuckles are illegal in most states, because, you know, they're like dangerous!
 
2012-12-03 02:52:21 AM
It's no different than a politician going on tv and saying abortion is wrong. Every other show on tv made some sort of comment about it, he was told to say something and he spoke his mind. You don't like what he has to say? Who cares, you're watching grown men run into each other while fighting over a ball. Get over it.
 
2012-12-03 02:52:43 AM

you are a puppet: You forgot to answer this.


I don't know. All I know is that a multi-billion dollar international corporation doesn't let some pipsqueak sports journalist go on a soap box without their approval.

Now, answer my questions.
 
2012-12-03 02:52:50 AM
Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.

Until then tell me if I'm out 5 grand to some bad men from Vegas.

Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.



/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?
 
2012-12-03 02:53:34 AM
It took less than 10 minutes for the right wing rage machine to go into full blown freakout mode.

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


I laugh at your naivete...
 
2012-12-03 02:53:51 AM

naptapper: Some people have a big problem with having a political agenda pushed down their throats during a football game. The problem isn't with the misguided beliefs but with the stage on which they were espoused.


Thank you.
 
2012-12-03 02:54:21 AM
Gun ownership? Nothing wrong with it. I have no issues with the legality of any weapons.

Glorifying gun ownership, however, is ridiculous. You can show a guy getting shot in the farking head on network TV but you can't show a bare female breast without getting fined. You can't say "fark" on a talk show, but we can have 25 cop shows, 10 war movies and a million ads for a first-person shooter video game. There's like 100 reality shows about guns, gun owners, gun range visitors, gun inventors, shooting guns, bigger guns, better guns, guns that haven't been invented yet but seem like a cool idea...

That part, I think, is the problem - not the fact that you can legally own one. Glorification of weapons is usually kinda silly IMO when in moderate amounts. We're saturated with violence to the point that we become desensitized to it when we see it and defensive of anything we perceive may be a threat to our right to inflict it.

It's a combination of factors, not the least of which is the psychological crutch that "oh, because bad guys are out there and they may have guns, we must all own guns to protect ourselves!" -- Never mind that you instantaneously become far more likely to have an accident or deliberate criminal action happen with that actual gun you bought to "protect" yourself than to be the victim of homicide from the hypothetical one you use to justify the purchase.

I think all drugs should be legal, too - but I don't think everyone should run out and buy some heroin, nor do I think we need ads for them on TV. If you need a gun, or think you need a gun, you're going to get a gun anyway. Maybe if we didn't get such a boner for Jack Bauer and Call of Duty the whole "gun culture" problem wouldn't exist but whatever -- I'm a 24 fan myself, so I choose to blame media as a whole for flooding the market with it. I know, no personal responsibility, shock right? heh... but that's the thing -- I'm FOR gun ownership, just not in favor of making gun use/ownership seem like it's "cool" or whatever the children call it these days.
 
2012-12-03 02:54:48 AM

Poo_Fight: Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.
Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.

/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?



lol. Costas has gained a lot of respect from me. Anything that angers fratboys is good for the world.
 
2012-12-03 02:55:27 AM

Frank N Stein: puffy999: So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.

Alright then. Why did he blame the gun? Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself. Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL? Why not the media's, including NBC's, role in perpetuating and glorifying the "gun culture"? Why take the simpleton's route of blaming the gun for the action of the man?

It's been brought up. Now defend it.


I can see the spittle flying out of your mouth.
 
2012-12-03 02:57:12 AM

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You forgot to answer this.

I don't know. All I know is that a multi-billion dollar international corporation doesn't let some pipsqueak sports journalist go on a soap box without their approval.

Now, answer my questions.


You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.
 
2012-12-03 02:58:00 AM

naptapper: Some people have a big problem with having a political agenda pushed down their throats during a football game. The problem isn't with the misguided beliefs but with the stage on which they were espoused.


It wasn't being pushed down their throats during the game; saying that implies, to me, that Michaels and Collinsworth got on a soapbox and were quoting Whitlock while neglecting their play-by-play and color-commentary duties. Halftime is different. I think making a social commentary during halftime of one of the most widely watched TV programs and thereby sparking debate is something to be applauded. The other pre- and postgame shows (Fox, CBS) are basically mindless, worthless drivel that does nothing but promote the NFL and its players. I also think that everyone should calm the fark down and stop being so defensive, regardless of which side of the argument you're on.
 
2012-12-03 02:58:13 AM

Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.


Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.
 
2012-12-03 02:58:45 AM

God-is-a-Taco: Poo_Fight: Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.
Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.

/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?


lol. Costas has gained a lot of respect from me. Anything that angers fratboys is good for the world.


Frat boys? I'm 49. You ignorant prick.
 
2012-12-03 03:00:40 AM

God-is-a-Taco: Poo_Fight: Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.
Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.

/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?


lol. Costas has gained a lot of respect from me. Anything that angers fratboys is good for the world.


*Clicks on profile*

Jesus Christ, YOU'RE a FRATBOY!
 
2012-12-03 03:00:55 AM
What is wrong with you people that listen to Costas in the first place? I realize not everyone owns a Tivo, but damn, leave the room or mute him or something.
 
2012-12-03 03:02:42 AM
Ok, being a Canuckistani, who owns no guns, may I make the following suggestion. Granted that I'm sure that it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.

Require people to take a gun safety course when they first decide to purchase a weapon, and pass, a la a licensing exam. As part of said course, have a portion (say an hour of a weekend long course in my view) where people are told how to recognize situations where their judgment can be clouded and how to get out of or defuse those situations.

From my cultural viewpoint, you guys take guns to an extreme. In terms of gun ownership and use you guys are waaaaayyyy ahead of most of the western world. Sadly crimes where guns are invioved are much more common. Access can correlate almost directly with use, just like places with lots of cars have lots of accidents.

You guys have fun with trying to come up with an answer on that issue. I'm glad that here in Canada, it's much more rare that I hear about gun violence.
 
2012-12-03 03:03:10 AM

you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.


Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.
 
2012-12-03 03:04:07 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


If only cars had some other use besides killing people...
 
2012-12-03 03:04:16 AM

carnifex2005: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Actually Whitlock is a Fox Sports journalist from Kansas City.


I'm pretty sure that's what he meant by a local journalist.

This happened in Kansas City.
 
2012-12-03 03:04:58 AM

thegod082: naptapper: Some people have a big problem with having a political agenda pushed down their throats during a football game. The problem isn't with the misguided beliefs but with the stage on which they were espoused.

It wasn't being pushed down their throats during the game; saying that implies, to me, that Michaels and Collinsworth got on a soapbox and were quoting Whitlock while neglecting their play-by-play and color-commentary duties. Halftime is different. I think making a social commentary during halftime of one of the most widely watched TV programs and thereby sparking debate is something to be applauded. The other pre- and postgame shows (Fox, CBS) are basically mindless, worthless drivel that does nothing but promote the NFL and its players. I also think that everyone should calm the fark down and stop being so defensive, regardless of which side of the argument you're on.


Oh, OK - so it's fine with you if anyone spouts off anything as long as it's not actually during the game. Hmm. So if someone who is deeply religious, say Tim Tebow for example, got on a halftime show and told people how they were going to Hell, that would be OK with you?

It's all about the time and place. I don't want to be preached to by anyone when I'm watching a farking pastime.
 
2012-12-03 03:04:58 AM
Guns are for pussy-asses bed-wetters acared of their own shadows, nevermind dark people
 
2012-12-03 03:05:48 AM

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.

Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.


You are really something.
 
2012-12-03 03:06:18 AM

Poo_Fight: /Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?


Look! The same red herring!

Yep. Someone died from something other than gun violence, so that means there is no reason at all to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Same old tired fallacy. You managed to combine it with ad homs and a whole lot of angry projection.

Congrats.
 
2012-12-03 03:06:32 AM

mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.


I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder
 
2012-12-03 03:07:02 AM

Representative of the unwashed masses: Ok, being a Canuckistani, who owns no guns, may I make the following suggestion. Granted that I'm sure that it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.

Require people to take a gun safety course when they first decide to purchase a weapon, and pass, a la a licensing exam. As part of said course, have a portion (say an hour of a weekend long course in my view) where people are told how to recognize situations where their judgment can be clouded and how to get out of or defuse those situations.

From my cultural viewpoint, you guys take guns to an extreme. In terms of gun ownership and use you guys are waaaaayyyy ahead of most of the western world. Sadly crimes where guns are invioved are much more common. Access can correlate almost directly with use, just like places with lots of cars have lots of accidents.

You guys have fun with trying to come up with an answer on that issue. I'm glad that here in Canada, it's much more rare that I hear about gun violence.


Gun ownership in Canada is similar to that of the US.
 
2012-12-03 03:07:34 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Actually, lots of people die needlessly due to our let old people continue driving until they run someone over and kill them culture...

so... let's get rid of old people.

Get RID of them.

images1.pinporn.com 

/gif unrelated
 
2012-12-03 03:08:04 AM
i guess if it was going to be a violent death for her, a gun was better. i know this sounds crass, but i can't see how not having a gun would have prevented this tragedy.
He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own. There are so many other ways to do that.
i feel horrible for the families of both the deceased. They get to experience first hand, the calamity that is murder/suicide.

/Not a gun owner.
//Not a believer in 'no-one-should-have-guns', either.
///i have to believe she died faster than from knife wounds. Or poison.
//What he did was shocking.
/And very sad.
 
2012-12-03 03:08:11 AM

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


DC is similar. And NYC. Generally, the more liberal a city = the more violent the crime statistics.
 
2012-12-03 03:08:16 AM

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


Are you more scared of black people or Hispanics?
 
2012-12-03 03:08:23 AM

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


When did I mention handgun bans?

And why are you so over the top angry that anyone even WANTS to discuss the problem of rampant gun violence in the United States?
 
2012-12-03 03:08:31 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


No one has mentioned our zombie culture...
I'm sure tens of people die every year...WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THE ZOMBIES???
 
2012-12-03 03:08:47 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Guns are for pussy-asses bed-wetters acared of their own shadows, nevermind dark people


Says the guy that lives in place that where an ID is required to purchase a butter knife.
 
2012-12-03 03:09:59 AM

Frank N Stein: I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder



I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is
 
2012-12-03 03:10:04 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Are you more scared of black people or Hispanics?


Ok, so you're a troll. Congrats.
 
2012-12-03 03:10:12 AM

Poo_Fight: God-is-a-Taco: Poo_Fight: Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.
Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.

/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?


lol. Costas has gained a lot of respect from me. Anything that angers fratboys is good for the world.

Frat boys? I'm 49. You ignorant prick.


Well, I suppose I was too hopeful. You only have the maturity and composure of a frat boy.
21 years older me and you act like you're 21 years younger.
Take a deep breath and realize that the large Africans will be chasing after the ball again really soon in the future, there's nothing to fear.
 
2012-12-03 03:12:33 AM

Nemo's Brother: Gun ownership in Canada is similar to that of the US.


*Spits out water* Are you serious? Maybe, maybe in the hunting community or in rural settings (I come from a line of farmers, so no this isn't a city vs country thing).

Of the people I know there are maybe 1 or 2 people that own a handgun (which they have to store at a range to use). And another... 10-15% that are hunters or farmers that have a couple of rifles/shotguns around.

When you consider how many people own handguns for defence in the states (not even getting into those who carry all the time), it's not even close. There are way more guns per capita south of the 49th parallel!
 
2012-12-03 03:13:58 AM

Frank N Stein: HaywoodJablonski: Are you more scared of black people or Hispanics?

Ok, so you're a troll. Congrats.


Answer the question.

Alternatively, please convince me why you need a handgun
 
2012-12-03 03:14:36 AM

naptapper: thegod082: naptapper: Oh, OK - so it's fine with you if anyone spouts off anything as long as it's not actually during the game. Hmm. So if someone who is deeply religious, say Tim Tebow for example, got on a halftime show and told people how they were going to Hell, that would be OK with you?

It's all about the time and place. I don't want to be preached to by anyone when I'm watching a farking pastime.


Addressing your first point, didn't Tebow appear in an anti-abortion commercial that aired during the Super Bowl, which is a much bigger deal than a midseason Sunday Night Football game? And no, although I don't agree with his views, I managed not to lose my mind over it.

Second, and I believe it's very possible that you are a bright, informed person, I think there are many Americans who may not be as socially aware as you are. After 9 consecutive hours of football-watching, I think it's fine that Costas has five minutes to talk to a large number of Americans about real American issues that transcend, "Bill Belichick: Evil Guy Because He's Mean in Press Conferences and Taped Football Players Practicing" or "Why Isn't Tebow Starting? Jets Suck lol."
 
2012-12-03 03:14:49 AM

mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is


By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?
 
2012-12-03 03:15:27 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Regardless of your position on gun control, this is an idiotic analogy. I hope you can figure out why.
 
2012-12-03 03:19:09 AM
"Gun culture" is derived largely from the video games and movies that advertise during football and pay Costas's salary. Also some of the shows on his network. Culture comes from media. But I doubt we'll hear much bed wetting about restricting the first amendment.
 
2012-12-03 03:19:22 AM

mediablitz: Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?


Switzerland?
 
2012-12-03 03:19:35 AM
Gun huh?

Hadn't thought about that... better write it down.
www.cardboardconnection.com
 
2012-12-03 03:19:38 AM

XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.


You don't know much about this story, then.
 
2012-12-03 03:19:59 AM

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.

Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.


You never asked me that, and I never claimed that. If you've noticed there is a username that appears at the beginning of posts; only the posts that correspond to my username are the ones written by me. Also there's no shadowy corporation behind my posts, and my posts don't necessarily reflect the opinions of any other posters. Let me know if you're still not following.
 
2012-12-03 03:20:41 AM
I'm planning on going out and buying myself some SWAT-grade armor, a Stinger missile launcher, and a bunch of Uzis with radioactive bullets when I get home from work. That seems to be the best way to protect myself at this point with everyone going gonzo for guns lately.
 
2012-12-03 03:21:22 AM

you are a puppet: Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.

Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.

You never asked me that, and I never claimed that. If you've noticed there is a username that appears at the beginning of posts; only the posts that correspond to my username are the ones written by me. Also there's no shadowy corporation behind my posts, and my posts don't necessarily reflect the opinions of any other posters. Let me know if you're still not following.


Oh wow. I didn't even notice that the person I quoted wasn't you. Sorry about that.
 
2012-12-03 03:22:08 AM

Serious Black: radioactive bullets


Enjoy your cancer.
 
2012-12-03 03:22:13 AM

Blame Hofmann: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Regardless of your position on gun control, this is an idiotic analogy. I hope you can figure out why.


Yes I can.

/That was the point.
//A dopey analogy for a dopey assertion.
 
2012-12-03 03:22:23 AM
I was listening to him present that quote on air, and was blown away by the conclusion. I really wonder how it would be recieved if he emphasized the idea that sports promote violence in our violent culture.

"I truely believe that if he was not a professional football player, both of them would still be alive today."
 
2012-12-03 03:24:52 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Blame Hofmann: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Regardless of your position on gun control, this is an idiotic analogy. I hope you can figure out why.

Yes I can.

/That was the point.
//A dopey analogy for a dopey assertion.


Nope, you didn't figure it out.
 
2012-12-03 03:26:34 AM

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


Evidence like that, as well as evidence of areas with relatively high rates of gun ownership and low rates of gun violence show that a lot (or most) gun violence in the US is ultimately a product of people living in poor socioeconomic conditions, and that it's simplistic to think that gun bans or high rates of gun ownership, in themselves, will make an area far less or more dangerous.

BUT, preventing unstable or dangerous people from obtaining handguns cannot be unreasonable, whatever sort of culture they come from. So there has to be some amount of gun ownership restriction, although I wouldn't know what that amount is.
 
2012-12-03 03:26:40 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access would not have prevented this tragedy from happening. Belcher was an American success story, right up until the time he murdered his girlfriend.

Costas was way out of line with that act.
 
2012-12-03 03:26:45 AM

mediablitz: Poo_Fight: /Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?

Look! The same red herring!

Yep. Someone died from something other than gun violence, so that means there is no reason at all to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Same old tired fallacy. You managed to combine it with ad homs and a whole lot of angry projection.

Congrats.


What fallacy is there in the argument that that a woman who is armed, trained, and mentally prepared is better able to defend herself against a murderer or rapist than a woman who is unarmed?
This is an entirely valid argument in favor of legal ownership of handguns, of the idea that women should be encouraged to be prepared to defend themselves, and that concealed carry permits should be reasonably available to those who desire them in all states of our nation.

Not only that, but you are the one throwing out the red herring, since that is literally all your post consists of. You are not arguing anything and are instead distracting everyone from the core issue with a red herring.
 
2012-12-03 03:27:02 AM

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Lots of people needlessly die due to our car culture.
Lots of people needlessly die due to our smoking culture.
Lots of people needlessly die due to our fast food culture.
Lots of people needlessly die due to our drinking culture.
etc.
 
2012-12-03 03:28:07 AM

Blame Hofmann: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder

Evidence like that, as well as evidence of areas with relatively high rates of gun ownership and low rates of gun violence show that a lot (or most) gun violence in the US is ultimately a product of people living in poor socioeconomic conditions, and that it's simplistic to think that gun bans or high rates of gun ownership, in themselves, will make an area far less or more dangerous.

BUT, preventing unstable or dangerous people from obtaining handguns cannot be unreasonable, whatever sort of culture they come from. So there has to be some amount of gun ownership restriction, although I wouldn't know what that amount is.


I agree. The system we have now, in which people with mental or psychological disorders are prevented from legally owning a firearm, would work much better if we had a mental health system worth a damn in this country.
 
2012-12-03 03:28:32 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.


The time and place to discuss the reality of a possible epidemic of firearms enabled violence must be when and where nobody is looking.
 
2012-12-03 03:29:23 AM

Triumph: "Gun culture" is derived largely from the video games and movies that advertise during football and pay Costas's salary. Also some of the shows on his network. Culture comes from media. But I doubt we'll hear much bed wetting about restricting the first amendment.


i am afraid 'Gun Culture' is a misnomer.
We live in dire times and guns aren't the only way to die.
Do we derisively attack each other debating whether guns are the culprits of our social anxieties? Or do we address that there are problems in society that far outweigh whether a person owns a gun or not?
i know many people who own guns. They're pretty sound individuals i don't have an issue being around.
i have a hard time believing it's guns that make people kill others. i am fairly sure it's the inappropriate ideas in the minds of those who would kill another that causes murder (self murder also).

/Not a philosopher
//Just an observer
 
2012-12-03 03:29:31 AM

Serious Black: I'm planning on going out and buying myself some SWAT-grade armor, a Stinger missile launcher, and a bunch of Uzis with radioactive bullets when I get home from work. That seems to be the best way to protect myself at this point with everyone going gonzo for guns lately.


Pussy. I'm getting a nuke. MAD, FTW!
 
2012-12-03 03:30:05 AM

libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.


i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?
 
2012-12-03 03:30:38 AM
If I were truly sure I was in the right when I defended gun culture, unlimited gun rights, etc., I wouldn't go yelping like a scalded dog every time someone suggests we might want to enact a law or two to dial that culture back a notch.
Instead, I would quietly say "Fark you, enact what you want, I'M the one with the guns."

Those who squawl like 5-year-olds deprived of a toy are telling me that deep down inside, they know their position is indefensible. The sad thing is, they're convinced someone is about to actually do away with the entire 2nd Amendment. Shallow-minded extremism, that is. No wonder they don't want a gun control debate; such a conversation would require nuanced thought.

By the way, I'm fine with a gun or two around the home, office, whatever, for personal defense. I think that's what the 2nd Amendment endorses. There are bad guys out there. (I'd have one myself, but I don't like loud noises.) (Or death.) Unfortunately, there's no law that could have prevented what happened to the Chiefs player. That was a mental thing.
 
2012-12-03 03:30:58 AM

Frank N Stein: Serious Black: radioactive bullets

Enjoy your cancer.


I was unaware that just having depleted uranium ammunition in my house could give me cancer. I figured the risk would be more to the person whom I shot with them.
 
2012-12-03 03:31:24 AM

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?
 
2012-12-03 03:32:08 AM
tell me again why we are talking about what a sports caster think about gun control? oh that's right. it's because he's on TV.
 
2012-12-03 03:32:18 AM

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.

Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.


Wow. You say that like it's a BAD thing.

I thought corporations were people too, and had "human" rights and everything??
 
2012-12-03 03:32:23 AM

Rent Party: AverageAmericanGuy:
Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access would not have prevented this tragedy from happening. Belcher was an American success story, right up until the time he murdered his girlfriend.


I've talked to some people in the know and they seem confident Farter will realize the dream that Belcher failed to reach.
 
2012-12-03 03:32:36 AM

XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?


She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.
 
2012-12-03 03:33:26 AM
 
2012-12-03 03:34:51 AM

Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?


You can murder someone with alcohol?
 
2012-12-03 03:36:54 AM

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?


They do have the highest per capita rate of suicide, and the majority of those (also a nation leading percentage) are by firearm.
 
2012-12-03 03:36:57 AM

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


Fast food, too, apparently.
 
2012-12-03 03:37:11 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


How much are you paying a month in gun insurance and where did you take your gun test.

Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.

This is the same group that used Charlton Heston, when he was suffering from dementia and forgot that he once loudly stood for registration and sensible gun laws, as a spokesman.

So go back to your cellar and polish your Taurus and Kel-Tec collection and STFU.
 
2012-12-03 03:37:44 AM

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


My ex wife drove me to drink. So yes.
 
2012-12-03 03:37:53 AM
All guns should be banned except for fully automatic rifles with armor piercing rounds.

But really, regardless of your gun politics, this was a bad example to use. A dude killing his girlfriend and then himself didn't even require a gun. It was just faster, I guess. A better example to use would be school shootings, or really any time a killer takes out a large number of people.
 
2012-12-03 03:37:54 AM

logruszed: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

The time and place to discuss the reality of a possible epidemic of firearms enabled violence must be when and where nobody is looking.


The time and place is when there can be a discussion...

Not when one person is giving me his unsolicited and unquestioned opinion during an entertainment/sporting event... and taking advantage of a personal family tragedy to ply his unsolicited opinion.
 
2012-12-03 03:38:33 AM

Metalithic: ElwoodCuse: SumDumGit: And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are?

The Supreme Court does, and even Scalia thinks there can and should be restrictions. Just not "absolute personal ownership" bans, like what was overturned in DC.

B-b-b-ut this is America! The constitution says every family needs at least one fully automatic machine pistol, just for huntin'!

/Or so I've heard.
//But switchblades and brass knuckles are illegal in most states, because, you know, they're like dangerous!



Keep banning stuff that kills people, don't fix the stupidity that caused it in the first place
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
www.sfgate.com
 
2012-12-03 03:38:46 AM

libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?

She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.


Even sadder then? i didn't find that detail in the articles i read. All i read was he killed her 3 months after the birth of their daughter and then went to the stadium and spoke to staff/coaches and then shot himself in their presence.

Thank you for your input- i always look for your comments.

/i feel even worse now.
//i don't favorite anyone, but i respect you and a few others.
 
2012-12-03 03:39:18 AM
Human beings are very inventive when it comes maiming, torturing and massacring one another. I don't really think taking away guns is going to change that. As a species we are so destructive and violent against one another, I actually feel worse when I hear a cop has shot a person's pet then I would if he/she just shot the person. I guess I'm not a big fan of people (that includes myself). There, I said it.
 
2012-12-03 03:40:08 AM

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?


No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?
 
2012-12-03 03:40:28 AM

Representative of the unwashed masses: Ok, being a Canuckistani, who owns no guns, may I make the following suggestion. Granted that I'm sure that it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.

Require people to take a gun safety course when they first decide to purchase a weapon, and pass, a la a licensing exam. As part of said course, have a portion (say an hour of a weekend long course in my view) where people are told how to recognize situations where their judgment can be clouded and how to get out of or defuse those situations.

From my cultural viewpoint, you guys take guns to an extreme. In terms of gun ownership and use you guys are waaaaayyyy ahead of most of the western world. Sadly crimes where guns are invioved are much more common. Access can correlate almost directly with use, just like places with lots of cars have lots of accidents.

You guys have fun with trying to come up with an answer on that issue. I'm glad that here in Canada, it's much more rare that I hear about gun violence.


Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.
 
2012-12-03 03:41:45 AM

fusillade762: Serious Black: I'm planning on going out and buying myself some SWAT-grade armor, a Stinger missile launcher, and a bunch of Uzis with radioactive bullets when I get home from work. That seems to be the best way to protect myself at this point with everyone going gonzo for guns lately.

Pussy. I'm getting a nuke. MAD, FTW!


I was planning on working my way up to some nukes. Step two would be a ring of Patriot missile launchers around my house, and step three would be a new version of Tsar Bomba.
 
2012-12-03 03:41:59 AM
Link

Something to consider.
 
2012-12-03 03:42:02 AM

rugby-n-beers: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

They do have the highest per capita rate of suicide, and the majority of those (also a nation leading percentage) are by firearm.


I posted the statistics. He can continue to pretend they don't exist. I get the impression he is all about willfully ignoring anything that doesn't fit his narrative/red herring argument.
 
2012-12-03 03:42:23 AM

Frank N Stein: puffy999: So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.

Alright then. Why did he blame the gun? Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself. Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL? Why not the media's, including NBC's, role in perpetuating and glorifying the "gun culture"? Why take the simpleton's route of blaming the gun for the action of the man?

It's been brought up. Now defend it.


Because a gun allows pretty much anyone to kill. Benoit was lifting weights and shooting steroids for years. farking duh. The majority of FARK members are (ok, like me) out of shape and could maybe fist-fight for a few minuted before getting winded; they could not kill people with bare hands. But put a gun into their hands and they don't even have to run after you (as opposed to a knife or a club) and unlike say a bow or other projectile weapon even low-cap firearms can unload a lot of hell in a hurry.

Is there no little voice in your head that tells you this shiat before your fingers go to work?
 
2012-12-03 03:42:48 AM

Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.


Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?
 
2012-12-03 03:45:19 AM

smells_like_meat: Link

Something to consider.


As soon as I found out about this story on Saturday afternoon, I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation. I'm convinced, though, that the only way football is going to completely change (or go away completely) is if Peyton Manning's head is literally ripped off of his neck in the middle of the Super Bowl.
 
2012-12-03 03:45:33 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


You are right. Americans really should reconsider the bloodbath on the roads.
 
2012-12-03 03:46:15 AM
I guess the idea that the terrible tragedy of a man killing his girlfriend and then himself (with a gun) providing a springboard to mention that too many other people die by killing themselves (with guns) is just more than some people can bear.

I seriously doubt that if the same guy had killed his girlfriend and himself by driving drunk and going over a cliff, and Costas had taken the opportunity at halftime to speak out against drunk driving, that an equal number of NFL fans and Farkers would be infuriated about his "pushing his agenda" against drinking, driving, or Miller Lite. Or perhaps they would. People get outraged by so many things these days.

Say what you like, but it's not wrong to point out that a lot of people use handguns to kill themselves and their significant others when they are depressed and/or angry. This is a bad thing. They might well find another way to do it, if the handguns were not available; however, it's undeniable that handguns make it much easier and quicker than if they had to use baseball bats or crossbows. That would be a bad thing too, and then people could be angry that Costas was making a halftime speech about people using crossbows to commit suicide, and they'd still look like insensitive idiots.
 
2012-12-03 03:46:18 AM

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?


Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.
 
2012-12-03 03:47:36 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: logruszed: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

The time and place to discuss the reality of a possible epidemic of firearms enabled violence must be when and where nobody is looking.

The time and place is when there can be a discussion...

Not when one person is giving me his unsolicited and unquestioned opinion during an entertainment/sporting event... and taking advantage of a personal family tragedy to ply his unsolicited opinion.


That is how a television works, you're confusing it with Skype. If you have a problem with being told things and being unable to engage in a discussion stick to Skype and call-in shows (hint: call-in shows only work when they are live. Watching rebroadcasts won't work).
 
2012-12-03 03:49:13 AM

thegod082: I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation.


I'd say that since jealous guys have been killing their SOs long before football was around, head injuries aren't really needed in the equation.
 
2012-12-03 03:49:36 AM

Gyrfalcon: I guess the idea that the terrible tragedy of a man killing his girlfriend and then himself (with a gun) providing a springboard to mention that too many other people die by killing themselves (with guns) is just more than some people can bear.

I seriously doubt that if the same guy had killed his girlfriend and himself by driving drunk and going over a cliff, and Costas had taken the opportunity at halftime to speak out against drunk driving, that an equal number of NFL fans and Farkers would be infuriated about his "pushing his agenda" against drinking, driving, or Miller Lite. Or perhaps they would. People get outraged by so many things these days.

Say what you like, but it's not wrong to point out that a lot of people use handguns to kill themselves and their significant others when they are depressed and/or angry. This is a bad thing. They might well find another way to do it, if the handguns were not available; however, it's undeniable that handguns make it much easier and quicker than if they had to use baseball bats or crossbows. That would be a bad thing too, and then people could be angry that Costas was making a halftime speech about people using crossbows to commit suicide, and they'd still look like insensitive idiots.


I think people like being outraged, I really do. Everyone wants to push his/her politics on everyone else.
 
2012-12-03 03:50:34 AM

Mock26:
Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.


That independent study seems unskewed
 
2012-12-03 03:51:16 AM

Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.


A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link
 
2012-12-03 03:51:40 AM

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?


I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:03 AM

XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?

She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.

Even sadder then? i didn't find that detail in the articles i read. All i read was he killed her 3 months after the birth of their daughter and then went to the stadium and spoke to staff/coaches and then shot himself in their presence.

Thank you for your input- i always look for your comments.

/i feel even worse now.
//i don't favorite anyone, but i respect you and a few others.


Yes, even sadder, IMO as well.

I just learned a few hours ago the she was a cousin of Jamaal Charles' wife.

The sad keeps piling on.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:08 AM

thegod082: smells_like_meat: Link

Something to consider.

As soon as I found out about this story on Saturday afternoon, I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation. I'm convinced, though, that the only way football is going to completely change (or go away completely) is if Peyton Manning's head is literally ripped off of his neck in the middle of the Super Bowl.


Robert Griffin III could have the same effect, and he would have the added bonus of being, what, 14 years younger than Peyton Manning? Of course, the odds of RGIII making it to the Super Bowl anytime soon are pretty slim.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:14 AM

log_jammin: thegod082: I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation.

I'd say that since jealous guys have been killing their SOs long before football was around, head injuries aren't really needed in the equation.


Do you follow the NFL, or professional sports? I myself am not blaming it on head injuries -- I don't know the facts. But I had strong suspicions that the media, correctly or incorrectly, would eventually tie it to head injuries, because they've probably been the biggest ongoing story in the NFL for the last few years.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:42 AM

libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.


That 2.5 million number is all over right wing sites. Not worked up at all. If he is trolling, so is 76% of the right wing.

Wait...
 
2012-12-03 03:53:18 AM

libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?

She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.

Even sadder then? i didn't find that detail in the articles i read. All i read was he killed her 3 months after the birth of their daughter and then went to the stadium and spoke to staff/coaches and then shot himself in their presence.

Thank you for your input- i always look for your comments.

/i feel even worse now.
//i don't favorite anyone, but i respect you and a few others.

Yes, even sadder, IMO as well.

I just learned a few hours ago the she was a cousin of Jamaal Charles' wife.

The sad keeps piling on.


Oh for fark's sake.
Damn.

/Damn.
//Damn.
//DAMN!
 
2012-12-03 03:53:21 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.


I'm telling you human beings are bad news.
 
2012-12-03 03:55:19 AM

logruszed: (hint: call-in shows only work when they are live. Watching rebroadcasts won't work)


That was funny.
 
2012-12-03 03:55:53 AM

BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.



Aye.
It's humans.
 
2012-12-03 03:56:12 AM

thegod082: Do you follow the NFL, or professional sports?


does darts count?

thegod082: I myself am not blaming it on head injuries -- I don't know the facts. But I had strong suspicions that the media, correctly or incorrectly, would eventually tie it to head injuries, because they've probably been the biggest ongoing story in the NFL for the last few years.


They'll link it because it will sell.

Not trying to argue with you. just saying.
 
2012-12-03 03:56:54 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.


Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.
 
2012-12-03 03:59:43 AM

XplodedSynapses: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.


Aye.
It's humans.


Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.
 
2012-12-03 04:00:17 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


The problem is that "smart, reasonable restrictions" usually mean "only the rich and well-connected get to own them".
 
2012-12-03 04:01:04 AM

Gyrfalcon: I guess the idea that the terrible tragedy of a man killing his girlfriend and then himself (with a gun) providing a springboard to mention that too many other people die by killing themselves (with guns) is just more than some people can bear.

I seriously doubt that if the same guy had killed his girlfriend and himself by driving drunk and going over a cliff, and Costas had taken the opportunity at halftime to speak out against drunk driving, that an equal number of NFL fans and Farkers would be infuriated about his "pushing his agenda" against drinking, driving, or Miller Lite. Or perhaps they would. People get outraged by so many things these days.

Say what you like, but it's not wrong to point out that a lot of people use handguns to kill themselves and their significant others when they are depressed and/or angry. This is a bad thing. They might well find another way to do it, if the handguns were not available; however, it's undeniable that handguns make it much easier and quicker than if they had to use baseball bats or crossbows. That would be a bad thing too, and then people could be angry that Costas was making a halftime speech about people using crossbows to commit suicide, and they'd still look like insensitive idiots.



Concise.
 
2012-12-03 04:01:32 AM

Krieghund: What is wrong with you people that listen to Costas in the first place? I realize not everyone owns a Tivo, but damn, leave the room or mute him or something.


major bingo.

other intelligent things i've heard during football games: (interview) Pro Athlete: "I knew if we could stay ahead in points we would win the game".
 
2012-12-03 04:02:18 AM

mediablitz: Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.


humans are humans no matter where they are. But life, laws, and customs are all very different across the globe. Gun ownership is just one in a ton of other factors.
 
2012-12-03 04:02:27 AM

mediablitz: XplodedSynapses: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.


Aye.
It's humans.

Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.


i do not want to sound like a smartass, but guns don't shoot all by themselves.
 
2012-12-03 04:03:53 AM

XplodedSynapses: mediablitz: XplodedSynapses: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.


Aye.
It's humans.

Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.

i do not want to sound like a smartass, but guns don't shoot all by themselves.


Of course, if i'd actually read all the comments to the quote, i'd know better than to say that?
 
2012-12-03 04:04:48 AM

mediablitz:
Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.


That article says the exact opposite of what you are implying it says. It says Switzerland has one of the lowest homicide rates around (.5 per 100,000), despite easy access to guns. All it says is that 48% of the very few homicides it does have are committed with guns. You will note that means that the majority of the very few homicides in Switzerland are committed with something other than a gun, despite their easy access there.

The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.
 
2012-12-03 04:05:56 AM

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


Ever hear of drunk driving?
 
2012-12-03 04:06:14 AM

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


Ever heard of drunk driving?
 
2012-12-03 04:06:23 AM

Rent Party: The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.


a violent people who do things like not treat the mentally ill and dismiss poverty.
 
2012-12-03 04:07:42 AM
This behavior disgusts me so I'll just leave this here.

"Funny how the people who want to remove guns from the street also expect a police officer to show up instantly when they call 911 and do violence on their behalf to keep them safe. I wonder if what they're really scared of is the concept of taking personal responsibility for your own safety."
 
2012-12-03 04:08:28 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.


There are a number of issues you're either intentionally or accidentally ignorant of or just failing to represent:

Not the least of which is that due to mandatory militia/military service (the actual reason so many guns are out there) a psychiatric evaluation determines eligibility for firearms ownership. If you're a dangerous nut you don't get a farking gun.

Private sales don't need a permit but there is a mandatory paper trail and the seller is quite accountable.

The certainly do have a lower per-capita gun crime rate than here some of which can be explained by the above but they also do not have the same socioeconomic problems we have here. They are largely a homogenous people, have universal healthcare, they are by U.S. standards basically Socialist with a strong social welfare system and little relative poverty.

So you want everyone to have guns like Switzerland? Cool. When do we get our socialism and free universal healthcare? Also when do we kick out all the white people (since according to FOX they are the minority now, that just seems easier).
 
2012-12-03 04:09:12 AM

log_jammin: Rent Party: The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.

a violent people who do things like not treat the mentally ill and dismiss poverty.


Those would be violent acts by my definition.
 
2012-12-03 04:09:32 AM

Securitywyrm: the concept of taking personal responsibility for your own safety."


how does that have fark all to do with the guy who shot his GF then himself?
 
2012-12-03 04:10:18 AM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: If I were truly sure I was in the right when I defended gun culture, unlimited gun rights, etc., I wouldn't go yelping like a scalded dog every time someone suggests we might want to enact a law or two to dial that culture back a notch.
Instead, I would quietly say "Fark you, enact what you want, I'M the one with the guns."

Those who squawl like 5-year-olds deprived of a toy are telling me that deep down inside, they know their position is indefensible. The sad thing is, they're convinced someone is about to actually do away with the entire 2nd Amendment. Shallow-minded extremism, that is. No wonder they don't want a gun control debate; such a conversation would require nuanced thought.


That squall you refer to is the concept of not giving an inch. Those who'd rather keep their rights are well-aware of when concessions are made in the direction of eliminating or restricting rights. It's very difficult to get them back again.
 
2012-12-03 04:10:28 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Heart disease is the #1 killer in America...Perhaps while we're on the subject of banning things for their 'useless nature' we can go ahead and add ALL fast-food joints to the list.
 
2012-12-03 04:12:17 AM

mediablitz: Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.


I would read it... but their site apparently REALLY wants me to buy a new surround sound system... since the full screen ad re-opens every time I close it. Maybe my puter is broken.

The opposite end of the spectrum would be places like D.C. where gun violence was (still is) out of control... even though guns were illegal.

I had to submit to an extensive background check, take a safety class and demonstrate competent handling of the weapon when I got my CCW. I have no issues with that. I have no issue with regulations/laws designed to keep guns away from criminals. What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens (as they do in most cities in CA for example).
 
2012-12-03 04:14:42 AM

TheEdibleSnuggie: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Heart disease is the #1 killer in America...Perhaps while we're on the subject of banning things for their 'useless nature' we can go ahead and add ALL fast-food joints to the list.


Oh come on. LIVING is the #1 killer in America.
 
2012-12-03 04:15:33 AM

mediablitz:

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"


According to that link, when it comes to gun homicides Montana is 30th, with 2.31 per 100,000.

Also, from the FBI:
img.photobucket.com
img.photobucket.com
img.photobucket.com

Montana:
Firearm robberies (per 100,000): 49th
Firearm assaults (per 100,000): 30th
 
2012-12-03 04:15:47 AM

XplodedSynapses: TheEdibleSnuggie: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Heart disease is the #1 killer in America...Perhaps while we're on the subject of banning things for their 'useless nature' we can go ahead and add ALL fast-food joints to the list.

Oh come on. LIVING is the #1 killer in America.


i am fairly sure, it's a global epidemic.
 
2012-12-03 04:17:36 AM

Securitywyrm: This behavior disgusts me so I'll just leave this here.

"Funny how the people who want to remove guns from the street also expect a police officer to show up instantly when they call 911 and do violence on their behalf to keep them safe. I wonder if what they're really scared of is the concept of taking personal responsibility for your own safety."


I'm sure most people have no interest in taking personal responsibility for anything they do. That's way all the farking lawsuits. A guy robbing someone's house gets shot. The criminal could and probably has sued the owner of the house.
 
2012-12-03 04:17:48 AM

LaughingRadish: That squall you refer to is the concept of not giving an inch. Those who'd rather keep their rights are well-aware of when concessions are made in the direction of eliminating or restricting rights. It's very difficult to get them back again.


I agree that it would be very difficult to get those rights back again, because future generations would be saying, "Why the fark would we go back to the old ways? Clearly, those people were doing something stupid." Sort of like how there isn't much of a serious push to bring back slavery.
 
2012-12-03 04:17:55 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens


Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.
 
2012-12-03 04:19:09 AM

logruszed: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

How much are you paying a month in gun insurance and where did you take your gun test.

Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.

This is the same group that used Charlton Heston, when he was suffering from dementia and forgot that he once loudly stood for registration and sensible gun laws, as a spokesman.

So go back to your cellar and polish your Taurus and Kel-Tec collection and STFU.


This. I used to be a member of the NRA until the organization got hijacked by Neo-Con Jeebus freaks and the Tea Baggers. As an owners of firearms, I find nothing wrong with some legislation that aids law enforcement to help solve gun crimes. In addition, what the hell is wrong with having mandatroy firearms training for future gun owners?
 
2012-12-03 04:19:38 AM

UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.


And this is exactly why all the "good citizens only" gun laws in the world wouldn't have done shiat for these people. Belcher was a model citizen and success story until he hit a bump.
 
2012-12-03 04:20:01 AM

fugeeface: this should be good

/fark you Costas


You'd be surprised how civil us NFL fans can be when we circle our wagons.
 
2012-12-03 04:20:15 AM

UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.


you may as well say everyone isn't a murderer until their life hits a bump.
 
2012-12-03 04:22:06 AM

UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.


It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.
 
2012-12-03 04:22:28 AM

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link


Let me get this straight. You're using a relatively anonymous poster, who seems to be unaware that DGU's are rarely reported, on some forum to debunk the study?
 
2012-12-03 04:22:53 AM

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?


Yes, because that disparity is not from a single study. If it was then I would see your point. I was just offering two different set of statistics on the subject. Feel free to take either one, because both are still greater than the number of murders each year. Heck, take the Department of Justice number, halve it, and it is still greater than the number of murders committed in this country each year.
 
2012-12-03 04:23:51 AM

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is


In 2010 Montana was 30th out of 51 states (DC included) in Assaults with a firearm.
It was also 38 of 51 for murders by firearm.
Japan has one of the higher suicide rates in the world even though there are virtually no firearms of any kind available in that country. The problem with suicide is not firearms, it is that people want to kill themselves.
So yeah... You need to stop trotting out this argument.

Another thing to consider is violence vs gun violence. For instance, Illinois is lower than Montana in firearm assaults per capita, but it is twice as high in violent crimes. This supports the idea that while legal handguns increases gun crimes over a total ban it greatly decreases violent crimes in general.

There is also the reporting issues that makes data gathered based on police reports somewhat invalid for inter-state comparison. One aspect is how crimes are categorized. One state may call "brandishing" felony assault with a firearm while another states calls it misdemeanor assault (firearm not mentioned). It is also much easier to get nailed with "brandishing" in states where open carry is legal than in states where it is not, so the numbers get skewed by this. Then there are areas in some larger cities where people who are assaulted with a firearm don't tend to report it, while in towns and smaller cities it is virtually always reported. Police in some cities may also discourage formal reporting of such incidents if they know there is nothing that can be done, which probably doesn't happen in places like Montana as much as in Chicago.

All that being said, the idea that guns being legal and common inherently stops or discourages violent crime isn't entire true. There is a correlation between gun legality/accessibility and decreased violent crime, but it is not a particularly strong correlation. In other words, there is enough of a correlation to say it definitely helps, not enough to explain the difference between, for instance, Chicago and Cheyenne. Those differences are based on a lot of other factors as well.
 
2012-12-03 04:24:33 AM

libranoelrose: fugeeface: this should be good

/fark you Costas

You'd be surprised how civil us NFL fans can be when we circle our wagons.


I understand some European football fans riot and set things on fire when their team looses........or wins................or shows up.
 
2012-12-03 04:24:40 AM

libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.


Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.
 
2012-12-03 04:24:54 AM

libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.


Nope. Not trolling.
 
2012-12-03 04:28:08 AM

libranoelrose: It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.


I can't. please explain it to me.

My life has had plenty of "bumps", so has most of the people I know. Yet I've never gunned someone down, and neither has anyone else I know. From my point of view murder/suicides are a rare thing, despite life generally sucking.

so what am I missing?
 
2012-12-03 04:28:16 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.


So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.
 
2012-12-03 04:28:58 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.


I don't believe any of it. My life has hit lots of bumps, but I don't own a gun......so i guess, BULLY for me.
 
2012-12-03 04:30:49 AM
Well, gun nuts creep me the fook out.
 
2012-12-03 04:31:05 AM

thegod082: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.


Seriously?

Let me point out the two key words here... "everyone" and "Javon Belcher".

Try again...
 
2012-12-03 04:31:10 AM

thegod082: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.


Maybe just maybe he was bat shait crazy all along. You can never ever really know what another person is thinking.
 
2012-12-03 04:31:11 AM

thegod082: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.


I think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said "I need to see a farking shrink before I hurt her and myself"
 
2012-12-03 04:33:07 AM

thegod082: LaughingRadish: That squall you refer to is the concept of not giving an inch. Those who'd rather keep their rights are well-aware of when concessions are made in the direction of eliminating or restricting rights. It's very difficult to get them back again.

I agree that it would be very difficult to get those rights back again, because future generations would be saying, "Why the fark would we go back to the old ways? Clearly, those people were doing something stupid." Sort of like how there isn't much of a serious push to bring back slavery.


The argument of "why the fark would be go back to the old ways" is very commonly used by tyrants to squelch dissent. Read "Animal Farm" sometime. It's full of that sort of thing.

"When a tyrant first appears he always comes as your protector." -- Plato
 
2012-12-03 04:33:53 AM

log_jammin: thegod082: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.

I think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said "I need to see a farking shrink before I hurt her and myself"


Well now maybe he'll get a Darwin award, although, he did already reproduce.
 
2012-12-03 04:33:59 AM

BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

I don't believe any of it. My life has hit lots of bumps, but I don't own a gun......so i guess, BULLY for me.


No gun? Uhhh... you should get one. What are you going to do when a bear knocks down your door?
 
2012-12-03 04:36:17 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

I don't believe any of it. My life has hit lots of bumps, but I don't own a gun......so i guess, BULLY for me.

No gun? Uhhh... you should get one. What are you going to do when a bear knocks down your door?


I specifically asked to live in a bear free zone. Someone is gonna have some splainin to do if that shait happens.
Oh wait someone's at the door........
 
2012-12-03 04:38:32 AM

mediablitz: libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.

That 2.5 million number is all over right wing sites. Not worked up at all. If he is trolling, so is 76% of the right wing.

Wait...


The reason I included it is because it is cited so many times by so many gun advocates. Note, though, that it was not the only number I put out there. I personally do not believe the number from the Kleck study but even the lower number from the Department of Justice is far greater than the number of murders committed each year in this country.
 
2012-12-03 04:38:36 AM

BlousyBrown: libranoelrose: fugeeface: this should be good

/fark you Costas

You'd be surprised how civil us NFL fans can be when we circle our wagons.

I understand some European football fans riot and set things on fire when their team looses........or wins................or shows up.


I'd be surprised if this thread lasts long enough to get the soccer hooligans here, but good on ya for the effort.

Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.


I think we might have hit a bump here.

I wasn't meaning to say that responsible citizens shouldn't be able to own weapons.

I was agreeing with UtlimaCS that it's easy to use that weapon responsibly until the human condition takes over.

Mock26: libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.

Nope. Not trolling.


I know you like to troll, that huge disparity in the amount of times guns are used to stop a crime proves it.

Silly goose.

log_jammin: so what am I missing?


There's a reason people don't just have a button installed on them that you can press to end their life.
 
2012-12-03 04:39:26 AM

BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

I don't believe any of it. My life has hit lots of bumps, but I don't own a gun......so i guess, BULLY for me.

No gun? Uhhh... you should get one. What are you going to do when a bear knocks down your door?

I specifically asked to live in a bear free zone. Someone is gonna have some splainin to do if that shait happens.
Oh wait someone's at the door........


I guess this shiat really works huh?

newsgrift.com
 
2012-12-03 04:40:02 AM

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


Then move away, asshole.
 
2012-12-03 04:43:47 AM

libranoelrose: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

I think we might have hit a bump here.

I wasn't meaning to say that responsible citizens shouldn't be able to own weapons.

I was agreeing with UtlimaCS that it's easy to use that weapon responsibly until the human condition takes over.


Problem is... that's not what he or she said.

There are plenty of things in every home that will quickly and easily kill a person... yet... we all don't get all murdery when life throws us a curve.
 
2012-12-03 04:43:53 AM

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link


Guns in America: National Survey on
Private Ownership and Use of Firearms

U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
National Institute of Justice

See Page 8 for numbers on defensive gun use, including comparisons to the Kleck report.
 
2012-12-03 04:44:30 AM

libranoelrose: There's a reason people don't just have a button installed on them that you can press to end their life.


that reason is, because we are not machines. But that is not an answer to my question.

"Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump." is obviously not true since the vast majority of gun owners don't kill themselves or others when their life hits a bump, and murder suicides are a very rare event. yes? no? why or why not?
 
2012-12-03 04:44:51 AM

stirfrybry: carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

Then move away, asshole.


Here's an example of humans being humans becoming belligerent and hostile. What is wrong with you? Lighten up
no one is taking your car or your gun.
 
2012-12-03 04:45:25 AM

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: puffy999: So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.

Alright then. Why did he blame the gun? Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself. Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL? Why not the media's, including NBC's, role in perpetuating and glorifying the "gun culture"? Why take the simpleton's route of blaming the gun for the action of the man?

It's been brought up. Now defend it.

I can see the spittle flying out of your mouth.


translation: I got nothin
 
2012-12-03 04:46:39 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: There are plenty of things in every home that will quickly and easily kill a person.


Stop it.

I don't take you for someone that will argue semantics about how easy it is to kill someone with a gun as opposed to any other household weapon.

Don't be that guy.
 
2012-12-03 04:49:17 AM

libranoelrose: Mock26: libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.

Nope. Not trolling.

I know you like to troll, that huge disparity in the amount of times guns are used to stop a crime proves it.

Silly goose.


If that disparity was from a single study, then you might be right. But it is not from a single study. As I said to another poster, take either number, either the one from the Department of Justice or the one from the Kleck report. Either number is greater than the number of murders committed in this country each year. Hell, divide each number in half and they are each still greater than the number of murders committed each year.
 
2012-12-03 04:51:09 AM

BlousyBrown: Lighten up no one is taking your car or your gun.


While ownership is technically still legal in California... it's petty much illegal to use them in most cities.

that's the problem.

/interactions with PD's in California get VERY scary when the citizen is carrying.
//and that's really not necessary
 
2012-12-03 04:53:02 AM

log_jammin: libranoelrose: There's a reason people don't just have a button installed on them that you can press to end their life.

that reason is, because we are not machines. But that is not an answer to my question.

"Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump." is obviously not true since the vast majority of gun owners don't kill themselves or others when their life hits a bump, and murder suicides are a very rare event. yes? no? why or why not?


I do believe that murder suicide events are rare compared to the circus.
 
2012-12-03 04:54:09 AM

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link


Also, I would like to point out that the guy who you linked to does not offer up a single shred of evidence when he "debunks" the numbers from the Kleck report. Whether or not you agree with Kleck's numbers (and by the way, I do not), he at least has data to support them. The guy you linked to has none.
 
2012-12-03 04:54:18 AM
Noon'e posted this yet? Im shocked.

images2.dailykos.com
 
2012-12-03 04:57:09 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: Lighten up no one is taking your car or your gun.

While ownership is technically still legal in California... it's petty much illegal to use them in most cities.

that's the problem.

/interactions with PD's in California get VERY scary when the citizen is carrying.
//and that's really not necessary


I'd say interactions with PDs in the US is freakin scary, irrespective of whether the pd is californian or arizonan or oregonian or ohioan or whereever. American cops are scary, stupid, well armed, protect one another to ridiculous extremes and see the world in terms of Cops and Perps.
 
2012-12-03 04:59:36 AM

libranoelrose: I do believe that murder suicide events are rare compared to the circus.


...ok....
 
2012-12-03 05:00:51 AM

libranoelrose: Pray 4 Mojo: There are plenty of things in every home that will quickly and easily kill a person.

Stop it.

I don't take you for someone that will argue semantics about how easy it is to kill someone with a gun as opposed to any other household weapon.

Don't be that guy.


Don't tell me which guy to be!

Look... it's not a semantic argument. Is a big-ass butcher knife the same as a gun? No. I'm not saying it is. The point is that "responsible gun owners"... in fact as it was said "every" responsible gun owner will not get all murdery just 'cause their life its a bump.

The gun provides an easier option if one chooses to get murdery... that's it.

Case in point... I would guess that if Belche didn't have a gun... the only life that would have been saved is his. A massive, strong and athletic human male got really, really pissed off and shot his girlfriend... I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would have just beaten, stabbed, strangled her if he had no gun.
 
2012-12-03 05:04:49 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: Pray 4 Mojo: There are plenty of things in every home that will quickly and easily kill a person.

Stop it.

I don't take you for someone that will argue semantics about how easy it is to kill someone with a gun as opposed to any other household weapon.

Don't be that guy.

Don't tell me which guy to be!

Look... it's not a semantic argument. Is a big-ass butcher knife the same as a gun? No. I'm not saying it is. The point is that "responsible gun owners"... in fact as it was said "every" responsible gun owner will not get all murdery just 'cause their life its a bump.

The gun provides an easier option if one chooses to get murdery... that's it.

Case in point... I would guess that if Belche didn't have a gun... the only life that would have been saved is his. A massive, strong and athletic human male got really, really pissed off and shot his girlfriend... I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would have just beaten, stabbed, strangled her if he had no gun.


I'm sorry, little confused. I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

Who is that guy? Is he bad? Is there more than one "that guy". I submit that there would have to be more than one.
 
2012-12-03 05:05:27 AM

Mock26: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link

Guns in America: National Survey on
Private Ownership and Use of Firearms
U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
National Institute of Justice

See Page 8 for numbers on defensive gun use, including comparisons to the Kleck report.


Both of those links debunk 2.5 million DGUs quite nicely and explain the origin of the myth/talking point. While no one can dispute firearms can dissuade crime, it is a silly position to take to that it counterpoints the documented crimes committed with firearms. That's like comparing dog bites to puppy cuddles and weighting them equally.

Not to mention how many of those DGUs were people pulling guns on people who pulled a gun on them, that never makes it to the statistics.
 
2012-12-03 05:06:14 AM

log_jammin: libranoelrose: I do believe that murder suicide events are rare compared to the circus.

...ok....


I'm glad you agree.

It's ridiculous how often we have to get into gun ownership threads on Fark when the original subject sometimes isn't about that.

It's like somehow there was a comment by a commentator who pulled the "I don't always agree with this guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy, but now I do.", turned into a gun rights thread.

This is a circus now.
 
2012-12-03 05:07:51 AM
Probably the loudest, whiniest group of entitled-feeling white men in America - and that's saying something. I can think of no group who has less to biatch anout than gun owners = and yet their paranoid, self-martyring wailing shakes the rafters.
What a bunch of sissy-assed, no balls little girls.

And yes, I own guns - have all my life. I'm just sick of the whining - it's embarrassing.
 
2012-12-03 05:08:43 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Case in point... I would guess that if Belche didn't have a gun... the only life that would have been saved is his. A massive, strong and athletic human male got really, really pissed off and shot his girlfriend... I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would have just beaten, stabbed, strangled her if he had no gun.


Yeah, but it didn't happen that way.

He shot her right in front of his mom, who was holding their baby.

If he didn't have a gun I doubt the beating would have gotten any further than him raising his fist and then his mom slapping him in the face.
 
2012-12-03 05:09:14 AM

libranoelrose: It's like somehow there was a comment by a commentator who pulled the "I don't always agree with this guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy, but now I do.", turned into a gun rights thread.


In fairness the "guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy" is Jason Whitlock. and the dude is a troll. He knew this would blow up and get him page views. Guys been doing crap like ths for years.
 
2012-12-03 05:10:22 AM

BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"


You're being that guy.
 
2012-12-03 05:11:00 AM

Father_Jack: Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: Lighten up no one is taking your car or your gun.

While ownership is technically still legal in California... it's petty much illegal to use them in most cities.

that's the problem.

/interactions with PD's in California get VERY scary when the citizen is carrying.
//and that's really not necessary

I'd say interactions with PDs in the US is freakin scary, irrespective of whether the pd is californian or arizonan or oregonian or ohioan or whereever. American cops are scary, stupid, well armed, protect one another to ridiculous extremes and see the world in terms of Cops and Perps.


"Hello, Officer. I'd like to inform you that I'm legally carrying a concealed and loaded 9mm pistol under my left arm which I intend to leave holstered."

It's fun starting off every interaction I have with CA cops with that speech. Hate doing it, but it's better than having some dumbass shoot me if he happens to see it.
 
2012-12-03 05:12:31 AM

logruszed: Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.


You're missing one big difference. Driving is a privilege, while gun ownership is a Constitutionally protected right.
 
2012-12-03 05:13:49 AM

log_jammin: libranoelrose: It's like somehow there was a comment by a commentator who pulled the "I don't always agree with this guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy, but now I do.", turned into a gun rights thread.

In fairness the "guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy" is Jason Whitlock. and the dude is a troll. He knew this would blow up and get him page views. Guys been doing crap like ths for years.


I'm so conflicted here.

Whitlock is a troll if you are a blind Chiefs fan, but I'm not one of those.

Most Chiefs fans I know are. I've been yelling at them for years, and arguing with Jason as much as much as most of them.

I know who Whitlock is.
 
2012-12-03 05:13:58 AM
There's like 50 people a day killed in the U.S. every day. Most of those are from unregistered, illegal handguns, and most involve the drug trade in some way.You only hear about the high profile cases unfortunately, and most of those are licensed gun carriers, though I don't know if this guy was licensed. To restrict gun ownership to law abiding citizenry will not effect gun violence as a whole since the criminals will still get a gun one way or another.

Illegal drugs are still available if you want to break the law..as guns will be.

/not a gun owner
 
2012-12-03 05:14:18 AM

libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.


I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.
 
2012-12-03 05:14:51 AM

libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.


It's like a poker game... if you can't spot the sucker... you are the sucker. Same thing... if you don't know who "that guy" is... you are that guy.
 
2012-12-03 05:15:22 AM
-1 as much
 
2012-12-03 05:17:16 AM

BlousyBrown: libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.

I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.


I think you should tell us about them...

and use lots of adjectives.

/and big words.
 
2012-12-03 05:18:27 AM

BlousyBrown: I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.


Pray 4 Mojo: It's like a poker game... if you can't spot the sucker... you are the sucker. Same thing... if you don't know who "that guy" is... you are that guy.


ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-12-03 05:21:25 AM

BlousyBrown: except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic.


Can we go over this part again, please?
 
2012-12-03 05:22:09 AM
I just get sick and tired of all these gun control nuts popping up and shoving their agenda down our throats any chance they can get.

Why won't they just shut the fark up about it and get over it?

The 2nd Amendment is our right to bear arms in the United States. Get over it and stop your whining. You are starting to make our ears bleed.

( and no, the gun didn't mind control Belcher into killing people and himself. And if he didn't have a gun, it would have been a knife. )
 
2012-12-03 05:22:39 AM
It's the gun fantasy that's the problem. I had a friend that was a gun lover and he frequently fantasized about finding someone in his house and shooting them. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're a better shot than a bad guy.

There is a reason the offense has an advantage in football. They know what they are going to do and the defense doesn't know. If a bad guy has a gun and they want to kill you, they will usually succeed because it was their idea.

/It also doesn't protect you from a crazy spouse or child in your house.
 
2012-12-03 05:23:48 AM
I like Costas. I think he is one of the few talented journalists. Regardless of his opinions or speculations, I won't judge.
 
2012-12-03 05:24:15 AM

libranoelrose: Pray 4 Mojo: Case in point... I would guess that if Belche didn't have a gun... the only life that would have been saved is his. A massive, strong and athletic human male got really, really pissed off and shot his girlfriend... I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would have just beaten, stabbed, strangled her if he had no gun.

Yeah, but it didn't happen that way.

He shot her right in front of his mom, who was holding their baby.

If he didn't have a gun I doubt the beating would have gotten any further than him raising his fist and then his mom slapping him in the face.


Fair point I guess... I admittedly don't know many of the details of this case.

It's the "every" that pissed me off...

I've had plenty of "bumps" in my life... even a few that were violent or potentially violent... and I still haven't shot anybody.
 
2012-12-03 05:24:21 AM

MagicMissile: I just get sick


You won't last a year here. Good luck.
 
2012-12-03 05:24:24 AM
Obama says guns belong in the hands of soldiers. And drug cartels. But not you.
 
2012-12-03 05:24:34 AM

Acharne: Mock26: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link

Guns in America: National Survey on
Private Ownership and Use of Firearms
U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
National Institute of Justice

See Page 8 for numbers on defensive gun use, including comparisons to the Kleck report.

Both of those links debunk 2.5 million DGUs quite nicely and explain the origin of the myth/talking point. While no one can dispute firearms can dissuade crime, it is a silly position to take to that it counterpoints the documented crimes committed with firearms. That's like comparing dog bites to puppy cuddles and weighting them equally.

Not to mention how many of those DGUs were people pulling guns on people who pulled a gun on them, that never makes it to the statistics.


Actually, the link posted by the other user debunks nothing. It has no supporting data to support it. As for the link that I posted:

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.

So, it really does not debunk the Kleck numbers, either.

But that is neither here nor there. Disregard the Kleck study completely and take the Department of Justice number of 80,000 (108,000 according to the link I provided) and the number of murders committed in this country is significantly lower than the number of times a gun is used to prevent a crime in this country.

* NSPOF: National Survey of Private Ownership of Firearms.
 
2012-12-03 05:25:26 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.

I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.

I think you should tell us about them...

and use lots of adjectives.

/and big words.


Locked, Stacked and two Smokin melons. Also round........ aww crap, I'm bluffing....I really am "that guy"
(still a girl, though)
 
2012-12-03 05:25:46 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: It's the "every" that pissed me off...


I hear ya.

They expect us to be polite all the time, yet they escalate whenever possible.
 
2012-12-03 05:25:59 AM

libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic.

Can we go over this part again, please?


You're a perv...
 
2012-12-03 05:27:43 AM

BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.

I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.

I think you should tell us about them...

and use lots of adjectives.

/and big words.

Locked, Stacked and two Smokin melons. Also round........ aww crap, I'm bluffing....I really am "that guy"
(still a girl, though)


I would never ask you to reveal you cleavage in a thread, so I think you should upload a pic to ******* DAMMIT
 
2012-12-03 05:27:48 AM

pnkgtr: It's the gun fantasy that's the problem. I had a friend that was a gun lover and he frequently fantasized about finding someone in his house and shooting them. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're a better shot than a bad guy.

There is a reason the offense has an advantage in football. They know what they are going to do and the defense doesn't know. If a bad guy has a gun and they want to kill you, they will usually succeed because it was their idea.

/It also doesn't protect you from a crazy spouse or child in your house.


And just because you own a gun does not mean that you fantasize about using it in an heroic fashion. I have several guns, and any gun fantasies that I might have involve either target shooting or hunting. I have never fantasized about using one to defend my home or my life.
 
2012-12-03 05:30:09 AM
Now that guns, football and boobie trifecta is complete.

It's time for sleep.

/Good talk Rusty.
 
2012-12-03 05:31:37 AM

libranoelrose: Whitlock is a troll if you are a blind Chiefs fan, but I'm not one of those.

Most Chiefs fans I know are. I've been yelling at them for years, and arguing with Jason as much as much as most of them.

I know who Whitlock is.



I'm proud to say that I haven't been a chiefs fan since before the turn of the century.
 
2012-12-03 05:35:01 AM

Mock26: pnkgtr: It's the gun fantasy that's the problem. I had a friend that was a gun lover and he frequently fantasized about finding someone in his house and shooting them. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're a better shot than a bad guy.

There is a reason the offense has an advantage in football. They know what they are going to do and the defense doesn't know. If a bad guy has a gun and they want to kill you, they will usually succeed because it was their idea.

/It also doesn't protect you from a crazy spouse or child in your house.

And just because you own a gun does not mean that you fantasize about using it in an heroic fashion. I have several guns, and any gun fantasies that I might have involve either target shooting or hunting. I have never fantasized about using one to defend my home or my life.


i have zombie defense fantasies with mine. im not gonna lie. illl man up to admitting that. all my red mist fantasies involve the brain craving undead.

who happen to sort of resemble high school bullies, supes that fired me and exes who wronge me. but its coincidental.
 
2012-12-03 05:35:11 AM

Pokey.Clyde: logruszed: Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.

You're missing one big difference. Driving is a privilege, while gun ownership is a Constitutionally protected right.


If only the framers had figured out the possibility that they might have not had the perfect everlasting solution and left in some way to alter or amend this document.

Because I'm sure people with low population density and muzzle-loading knew ahead of time that walking in to some place like a mall and being able to loose 9 rounds in less time than it took them to reload once was what they were thinking.

Or could you accept that shiat changes? Today isn't then. You can't beat your wife and kids anymore without losing them, you can't own people anymore, you can't shoot savages, etc. On the bright side diphtheria isn't much of an issue any more.
 
2012-12-03 05:36:09 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Now that guns, football and boobie trifecta is complete.

It's time for sleep.

/Good talk Rusty.


You got favorited for that, Clark.
 
2012-12-03 05:36:19 AM

Mock26: But that is neither here nor there. Disregard the Kleck study completely and take the Department of Justice number of 80,000 (108,000 according to the link I provided) and the number of murders committed in this country is significantly lower than the number of times a gun is used to prevent a crime in this country.


Are murders the only kind of violent act that could theoretically be prevented by a gun?
 
2012-12-03 05:37:07 AM

log_jammin: libranoelrose: Whitlock is a troll if you are a blind Chiefs fan, but I'm not one of those.

Most Chiefs fans I know are. I've been yelling at them for years, and arguing with Jason as much as much as most of them.

I know who Whitlock is.


I'm proud to say that I haven't been a chiefs fan since before the turn of the century.


Good for you.
 
2012-12-03 05:38:28 AM

logruszed: On the bright side diphtheria isn't much of an issue any more.


This is one of my favorite things.
 
2012-12-03 05:42:13 AM
Its great to see the paranoid gun control crowd under fire, Bob Costas should issue a public apology for what he did.
 
2012-12-03 05:46:49 AM

MagicMissile: Its great to see the paranoid gun control crowd under fire, Bob Costas should issue a public apology for what he did.


Right after your parents issue their own.
 
2012-12-03 05:47:24 AM

MagicMissile: Its great to see the paranoid gun control crowd under fire, Bob Costas should issue a public apology for what he did.


Nah - Costas is a jerk, but gun fappers are too sensitive, and need more slapping down when they whine, and less coddling. Man up and grow a pair, Nancy-boy.
 
2012-12-03 05:50:41 AM
you shouldnt talk to your father that way Logruszed
 
2012-12-03 06:02:23 AM
Amazing how a bunch of big, tough gun owners turn into whiny biatches when someone expresses an opinion questioning their need to arm themselves.

Insecure much?
 
2012-12-03 06:02:53 AM
The knuckle-dragging, alpha-male, thug culture that these barely literate Football players live in is what needs to be controlled!
 
2012-12-03 06:07:34 AM
i471.photobucket.com

Would'ja rather dey's pushed from windas, little goil?
 
2012-12-03 06:07:38 AM
There are a lot of whiny insecure biatches here complaining about the 2nd amendment, that's what I'm seeing!


I plan on using my tax return to by a rifle this year. How about you guys?
 
2012-12-03 06:09:44 AM

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


No, people do not *need* cars. Humanity survived tens of thousands of years without them. Besides, who are you to tell us what he do and do not need, you pretentious twerp?
 
2012-12-03 06:09:53 AM

MagicMissile: There are a lot of whiny insecure biatches here complaining about the 2nd amendment, that's what I'm seeing!


I plan on using my tax return to by a rifle this year. How about you guys?


dont buy something ghey. Get some old milsurp. Stay away from that „tacticool" AR15 and AK47 polymer bs. Get an old mauser or an old enfield from ww2.
 
2012-12-03 06:12:53 AM
I don't care on what side of the issue you stand, all I know is that if you use the words "jam down my throat " or "shoved down my throat" then those thoughts preceding and following that are not your own. You might agree with the sentiment but you are essentially repeating a thought leader's, good or bad, talking points.

My FB feed is proof of this.
 
2012-12-03 06:13:13 AM

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.

Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.


It's not a fallacy, it's a fact. You don't need a gun to kill someone. Hey, but thanks for playing.
 
2012-12-03 06:22:59 AM

TerminalEchoes: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.

Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.

It's not a fallacy, it's a fact. You don't need a gun to kill someone. Hey, but thanks for playing.


You're right. I could kill somebody using an Ethernet cord. Or a lawn chair. Or an umbrella. Or insert whatever thing you want to here. The difference is very few of those things were designed with the sole intent of killing another living thing.
 
2012-12-03 06:28:51 AM
How come no one ever talks about banning swords. I mean.... swords killed a lot of people in our species history....
 
2012-12-03 06:32:40 AM
When I want to talk guns I certainly won't listen to a Costa who doesn't have his own action figure.

dl.dropbox.com


jso2897: Nah - Costas is a jerk, but gun fappers are too sensitive,


We whine because the stupid burns too much to be ignored.
We've just come off a seventy year run of gun control measures that amounted to bumpkiss. Despite all the office furniture and helicopter time bought by the ATF, crime rates are falling while gun sales are spiking. It suggests that those billions spent to collect serial numbers and hunt moon shiners were wasted while education and actual law enforcement went in need.
Most of these anti-gun measures slipped past because people didn't complain loudly enough at the time.
What we learned was that a few thousand reasonable laws will eventually amount to an unreasonable outcome.

Now We have celebrities telling us that, between two weapons of the same caliber and same performance, one is more dangerous than the other due to the color of its plastic. We've got lawyers arguing that people who steal your things have a right to walk away if caught in the act. We have a man who takes a moment away from his job of narrating a gladiatorial sport to lecture us about how bad an influence those black kids and their loud hip hop music are.

Any fan of living in a free society should whine about this, because bad ideas have small beginnings.

/If you want to see domestic violence tragedies, follow the news in less affluent nations.
/Especially those in Africa, Asia, and the Middle east where gun control is often very strict (if selectively enforced). 
/Locking up the guns won't give women the edge in a fight against men. It would more do the opposite.
 
2012-12-03 06:41:01 AM

Harry_Seldon: Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Dear sage, please enlighten us with your words of wisdom. More people die every day in car accidents than die by handgun violence in a year. I guess it is only reasonable to say that getting rid of cars is the natural solution to that. Use your head for something other than a hat rack, guns are nothing but objects. The football player that triggered this outburst wanted his wife dead. If he didn't have access to a gun, there is no doubt he would have used something else. It would be better to get rid of the reason that these people are doing these things rather than the tool they use to do them. Otherwise, they will continue to happen.
 
2012-12-03 06:52:06 AM
hbk72777: don't fix the stupidity that caused it in the first place

You've obviously never tried to fix stupid.
 
2012-12-03 06:53:41 AM

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Lots of people die due to our gun/car/drug/sedentary/abortion culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of doing bidness in Muricah.
 
2012-12-03 06:56:09 AM

immrlizard: Harry_Seldon: Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Dear sage, please enlighten us with your words of wisdom. More people die every day in car accidents than die by handgun violence in a year. I guess it is only reasonable to say that getting rid of cars is the natural solution to that. Use your head for something other than a hat rack, guns are nothing but objects. The football player that triggered this outburst wanted his wife dead. If he didn't have access to a gun, there is no doubt he would have used something else. It would be better to get rid of the reason that these people are doing these things rather than the tool they use to do them. Otherwise, they will continue to happen.


We require people to be certified to operate a car. Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.
 
2012-12-03 07:05:22 AM

Serious Black: immrlizard: Harry_Seldon: Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Dear sage, please enlighten us with your words of wisdom. More people die every day in car accidents than die by handgun violence in a year. I guess it is only reasonable to say that getting rid of cars is the natural solution to that. Use your head for something other than a hat rack, guns are nothing but objects. The football player that triggered this outburst wanted his wife dead. If he didn't have access to a gun, there is no doubt he would have used something else. It would be better to get rid of the reason that these people are doing these things rather than the tool they use to do them. Otherwise, they will continue to happen.

We require people to be certified to operate a car. Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.


Vehicles operate on public property and with the constant interaction with other vehicles/drivers. The cost to repair them if a crash occurs is significant. On top of that, the smooth operation of these vehicles on public roads is necessary for the continued financial success of the country. As such, licensing is appropriate. Firearms do not have any of these requirements and would be much more comparable to the other enumerated rights.
 
2012-12-03 07:14:11 AM

logruszed: Pokey.Clyde: logruszed: Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.

You're missing one big difference. Driving is a privilege, while gun ownership is a Constitutionally protected right.

If only the framers had figured out the possibility that they might have not had the perfect everlasting solution and left in some way to alter or amend this document.

Because I'm sure people with low population density and muzzle-loading knew ahead of time that walking in to some place like a mall and being able to loose 9 rounds in less time than it took them to reload once was what they were thinking.

Or could you accept that shiat changes? Today isn't then. You can't beat your wife and kids anymore without losing them, you can't own people anymore, you can't shoot savages, etc. On the bright side diphtheria isn't much of an issue any more.


the Idea at the time was to make the citizenry as equipped as the military so that there was an able-bodied gun owner behind every door. The idea that you had to codify into law or explain that firearms are for hunters only is absurd since that is how EVERYONE got their food back in the day.

If you dont like what the 2nd amendment says, change it. That is why we have the process in place.

Serious Black: You're right. I could kill somebody using an Ethernet cord. Or a lawn chair. Or an umbrella. Or insert whatever thing you want to here. The difference is very few of those things were designed with the sole intent of killing another living thing.


There's a reason the old Colt revolver was called the equalizer since it put 60 year old grannies on the same playing field as 22 year old punks. Jovan Belcher would have been intent on killing his girlfriend either way. Guns or no guns, the only thing that might have changed the situation was if she had owned one...but gun-grabbers would rather someone be a victim than step out of line and use a gun to protect His/herself
 
2012-12-03 07:22:06 AM

Anarchangel: Glorifying gun ownership, however, is ridiculous. You can show a guy getting shot in the farking head on network TV but you can't show a bare female breast without getting fined. You can't say "fark" on a talk show, but we can have 25 cop shows, 10 war movies and a million ads for a first-person shooter video game.


Most people would say that the problem in this is insufficient respect for the first amendment, not too much respect for the second.

Serious Black: Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.


... so? Killing things is a pretty useful function which is in no way sinister or bad in itself, and it in no way indicates any particular danger to people. Given that you were alive at least long enough to learn how to type, you yourself have killed more living things than all guns put together throughout history ever have just in the process of fighting off infections. And you've eaten literally nothing that wasn't a living thing that someone else killed for you.

As for licenses, we do require licenses for the use of guns in ways with a potential to be dangerous to bystanders (concealed carry of handguns for self-defense), just as we only require licensing for vehicles used in ways potentially dangerous to bystanders (you can drive whatever you want on your own property, and certain vehicles with low maximum speeds like farm tractors can be taken on public roads without license). It's pretty internally consistent.
 
2012-12-03 07:22:13 AM

o5iiawah: Guns or no guns, the only thing that might have changed the situation was if she had owned one...but gun-grabbers would rather someone be a victim than step out of line and use a gun to protect His/herself


What if she didn't want a gun though?
 
2012-12-03 07:25:15 AM

ronaprhys: Serious Black: We require people to be certified to operate a car. Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.

Vehicles operate on public property and with the constant interaction with other vehicles/drivers. The cost to repair them if a crash occurs is significant. On top of that, the smooth operation of these vehicles on public roads is necessary for the continued financial success of the country. As such, licensing is appropriate. Firearms do not have any of these requirements and would be much more comparable to the other enumerated rights.


By that logic, since the smooth functioning of the financial industry is is necessary for economic success and the cost of a bank collapse is obviously massive, we should license day traders and bankers.

o5iiawah:
Serious Black: You're right. I could kill somebody using an Ethernet cord. Or a lawn chair. Or an umbrella. Or insert whatever thing you want to here. The difference is very few of those things were designed with the sole intent of killing another living thing.

There's a reason the old Colt revolver was called the equalizer since it put 60 year old grannies on the same playing field as 22 year old punks. Jovan Belcher would have been intent on killing his girlfriend either way. Guns or no guns, the only thing that might have changed the situation was if she had owned one...but gun-grabbers would rather someone be a victim than step out of line and use a gun to protect His/herself


I thought the point of the 2nd Amendment was to be able to call up a milita at a moment's notice rather than to protect yourself.
 
2012-12-03 07:26:59 AM

Serious Black: I thought the point of the 2nd Amendment was to be able to call up a milita at a moment's notice rather than to protect yourself.


The point of the Second Amendment is for a lot of people to speculate about it's point as if speculation were fact.
 
2012-12-03 07:28:03 AM

Rent Party: mediablitz:
Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.

That article says the exact opposite of what you are implying it says. It says Switzerland has one of the lowest homicide rates around (.5 per 100,000), despite easy access to guns. All it says is that 48% of the very few homicides it does have are committed with guns. You will note that means that the majority of the very few homicides in Switzerland are committed with something other than a gun, despite their easy access there.

The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.


You seem to have missed the larger point.

Why do the Swiss have guns? Compulsory military service.

What's an important part of the military screening process? Psychological testing.

Thus, in order to receive access to a gun, Swiss citizens must not be mentally unstable. This is called gun control and is one of the two biggest reasons why gun violence per capita is low in Switzerland. The other: ammunition has not been issued as part of the standard equipment since 2008. That also sounds suspiciously like gun control. There's a lot of other factors that also contribute (much better education system, universal healthcare, higher standard of living, etc.), but "having easy access to guns = no murders in Switzerland" is incorrect at best and deliberately misleading for propaganda purposes at worst.
 
2012-12-03 08:00:11 AM
Oh. Look. A bunch of professional right-wing media hairpieces and sociopaths who manually stimulate themselves to the thought of shooting things are outraged that somebody has an opinion differing from their own. What an absolute shock. It must be sometime between 12:00 AM and 11:59 PM on a day that's part of a week inside of a month that makes up 1/12 of a year.
 
2012-12-03 08:09:08 AM

SumDumGit: AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.

And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are? And when they decide to take them away completely? Do you say "No biggie, I didn't need a gun anyway."


which party? both of them. there's no supermajority in either house of congress on the national level and most states that do have one in their state govt are Republican. What makes you think both parties wouldn't have say as to what regulations are put into place? Do you really think that the Dems have total control of govt and are oppressive dictators?
 
2012-12-03 08:11:01 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.


So when is that time and place that it's appropriate to talk about such sacred subjects? People are killed with guns every day in the US.
 
2012-12-03 08:11:37 AM

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.



It is an acceptable cost. As any gun enthusiast will tell you: we need to keep and bear arms in case Govt tries to oppress us. Well, they tell you that when they are not talking about how oppressive Govt is.

/waiting for 2Aers to throw off these oppressive Govt shackles
//still waiting
///crickets
 
2012-12-03 08:11:39 AM
Bob had to say something. This was perfect. He can't just gloss over two murders in his field of work.
There's nothing that's revolutionary in what he said, "this has to stop somehow". Who can argue with that, Idi Amin?
No, so intelligent people know this and move past the violence and the commentary on it.

image2.findagrave.com

Is smiling from his grave
 
2012-12-03 08:16:35 AM

Jim_Callahan: As for licenses, we do require licenses for the use of guns in ways with a potential to be dangerous to bystanders (concealed carry of handguns for self-defense), just as we only require licensing for vehicles used in ways potentially dangerous to bystanders (you can drive whatever you want on your own property, and certain vehicles with low maximum speeds like farm tractors can be taken on public roads without license). It's pretty internally consistent.


to operate a car you must have completed the written test. the eye test and the driving skills test. to the satisfaction of a state examiner and maintain insurance on the vehicles. not to mention passing a bit of a background check with your i.d. check and address check. to get my license I had to prove my d.o.b. all over again this year and have proof of residency. this is after having a license in this same state for over 40 yrs.

getting a gun license is much easier that this.
 
2012-12-03 08:20:14 AM
But if he didn't have a gun, maybe he would use a knife...

We need more knife control
 
2012-12-03 08:20:36 AM

fusillade762: Nemo's Brother: Gun ownership in Canada is similar to that of the US.

Not sure if troll or idiot.

Number of guns per capita by country (2007)

United States

Guns per 100
residents - 88.8

Rank - 1


Canada

Guns per 100
residents - 30.8

Rank - 13


I'm an idiot. I assumed something Michale Moore said wasn't a complete lie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_for_Columbine
 
2012-12-03 08:21:13 AM

HanBammer:
Thus, in order to receive access to a gun, Swiss citizens must not be mentally unstable. This is called gun control and is one of the two biggest reasons why gun violence per capita is low in Switzerland.


Federal law prohibits firearm ownership of any person in the United States who has ever been involuntarily committed to a mental institution or ajudicated mentally defective.

What we don't do is take rights away from people who have done nothing wrong.
 
2012-12-03 08:22:51 AM
Should we mandate liability insurance for gun owners?
 
2012-12-03 08:23:33 AM
I don't really get sometimes how people think doing something illegal with a legal object is supposed to be controlled by tighter laws on said legal object. As if breaking the law wasn't something they'd do whether they were legal or illegal.

There will always be people breaking laws. They will steal. They will lie. They might even kill. They will do whatever they think they have to do to get what they think they need, physically or emotionally. And as long as it's physically, humanly possible to do something, people will do it, no matter how many laws or warning labels or legal disclaimers exist.

Legislating against these actions would make Sysiphus himself shake his head at you and tell you it'd never happen.
 
2012-12-03 08:23:37 AM

tbhouston: But if he didn't have a gun, maybe he would use a knife...

We need more knife control


I knew a State Trooper who owned a lot of guns. The day he murdered his wife, he used a knife though, to make it look like a robbery. He was on duty and they just looked at the radio repeater logs to see his car was not where he said it was and now he is in prison.
 
2012-12-03 08:24:15 AM

Serious Black: immrlizard: Harry_Seldon: Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Dear sage, please enlighten us with your words of wisdom. More people die every day in car accidents than die by handgun violence in a year. I guess it is only reasonable to say that getting rid of cars is the natural solution to that. Use your head for something other than a hat rack, guns are nothing but objects. The football player that triggered this outburst wanted his wife dead. If he didn't have access to a gun, there is no doubt he would have used something else. It would be better to get rid of the reason that these people are doing these things rather than the tool they use to do them. Otherwise, they will continue to happen.

We require people to be certified to operate a car. Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.


And you idiots are trying to ban popcorn, soda,salt, cigarettes (except menthol as you have to appease the black voters), and fried food. You put so many bans in some of your big cities and then cry about a good dessert.
 
2012-12-03 08:24:56 AM
should we mandate psychiatric evaluations and drug testing for gun licenses?
 
2012-12-03 08:24:57 AM
Someone has spoken negatively about guns. Quick to the 2nd Amendment poutrage mobile. They must be shouted down!
 
2012-12-03 08:26:07 AM

Nemo's Brother: And you idiots are trying to ban popcorn


I know I have my certificate to operate popcorn. I'm exercising it as I write this.

/popcorn
 
2012-12-03 08:26:11 AM

Marcintosh: Who can argue with that...


Gun zealots don't care about anything but their precious toys. To them, gun violence is just an inconvenient annoyance that may lead to them not being able to stockpile a hundred deadly weapons with no protection in a residential neighborhood.

When these idiots hear that somebody got shot and killed, they don't think "that's terrible", they think "this is going to be terrible, someone will surely something mean about my babies because this farking idiot died!"

The types of people who get outraged about what Costas said are truly despicable human beings because all they care about is their precious forged metal.
 
2012-12-03 08:28:00 AM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Marcintosh: Who can argue with that...

Gun zealots don't care about anything but their precious toys. To them, gun violence is just an inconvenient annoyance that may lead to them not being able to stockpile a hundred deadly weapons with no protection in a residential neighborhood.

When these idiots hear that somebody got shot and killed, they don't think "that's terrible", they think "this is going to be terrible, someone will surely something mean about my babies because this farking idiot died!"

The types of people who get outraged about what Costas said are truly despicable human beings because all they care about is their precious forged metal.


it's a security blanket for bedwetters who piss their pants at every bump in the night.
 
2012-12-03 08:28:26 AM

Hobodeluxe: should we mandate psychiatric evaluations and drug testing for gun licenses?


There's no way that could ever be abused by people who hate guns and think a desire to own one is a symptom of homicidal psychopathy.
 
2012-12-03 08:29:47 AM

Hobodeluxe: Vegan Meat Popsicle: Marcintosh: Who can argue with that...

Gun zealots don't care about anything but their precious toys. To them, gun violence is just an inconvenient annoyance that may lead to them not being able to stockpile a hundred deadly weapons with no protection in a residential neighborhood.

When these idiots hear that somebody got shot and killed, they don't think "that's terrible", they think "this is going to be terrible, someone will surely something mean about my babies because this farking idiot died!"

The types of people who get outraged about what Costas said are truly despicable human beings because all they care about is their precious forged metal.

it's a security blanket for bedwetters who piss their pants at every bump in the night.



Most of them I know seem to dream of getting to shoot a minority someday. Vicious, hateful little hillbillies with dead end lives.

/gun owner
 
2012-12-03 08:33:18 AM
AverageAmericanGuy


Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.

Any step that infringes on your access and ownership does is in fact with the direct statement of the 2nd Amendment, the writings of the Founders, the original intent, and the practice of the day.
 
2012-12-03 08:34:35 AM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: The types of people who get outraged about what Costas said are truly despicable human beings because all they care about is their precious forged metal.


Guns, cars, knives, rope, fireworks, swimming pools, step ladders, coal generated electricity and seafood dinners all come with some level of acceptable losses.

If you eat Alaskan crab, you have decided that the number of crab boat workers who are injured or killed every year to get your tasty dinner are acceptable losses. You may not think about it, because you're far enough removed from it that you don't really have to, but that's what you're doing.

You are certainly not above those of us who own firearms simply because some of us will actually admit what you pretend not to think. There's always acceptable losses. At least I have the stones to say so.
 
2012-12-03 08:34:53 AM
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

From this credo I learn that the method by which a person defends them-self isn't in itself dangerous or worthy of being regulated. It is the will of the individual owning the implement of violence that needs to be regulated or controlled.

Therefor...government needs to get to the root of the problem by lobotomizing people who are involved with any kind of violent altercation. These are the people who kill people.

Also therefor...there should be no regulation on the type of "arms" a person can bear as the implement of violence itself is without blame. Nuclear weapons don't kill people, people kill people. Weaponized bio-agents don't kill people, people kill people. Chemical dispersion doesn't kill people, people kill people.

The distinction between some implements of violence and others are not logically justified. The lack of efforts to eliminate the root cause of violence aren't either.
 
2012-12-03 08:35:49 AM
Enough with the "Huuur you need a license to drive, but not to own a gun!" stupidity.

The day driving becomes an enumerated constitutional right like the right to bear arms is the day you can start making that comparison without sounding like you slept through 10th grade civics.
 
2012-12-03 08:36:46 AM

heili skrimsli: Hobodeluxe: should we mandate psychiatric evaluations and drug testing for gun licenses?

There's no way that could ever be abused by people who hate guns and think a desire to own one is a symptom of homicidal psychopathy.


yeah I'm sure that is exactly what would happen. some libby lib treehugger psychiatrist would never give anyone a license because he's anti gun and the state let him keep the job.

but instead of operating off of what might happen in your imagination let's instead watch videos of real dumbasses with real guns hurting themselves and others all day long because those people do exist in great numbers in the real world.

imgupld.lunaticoutpost.com
 
2012-12-03 08:39:21 AM

GoldSpider: Enough with the "Huuur you need a license to drive, but not to own a gun!" stupidity.

The day driving becomes an enumerated constitutional right like the right to bear arms is the day you can start making that comparison without sounding like you slept through 10th grade civics.


just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.
 
2012-12-03 08:41:43 AM

Hobodeluxe: but instead of operating off of what might happen in your imagination let's instead watch videos of real dumbasses with real guns hurting themselves and others all day long because those people do exist in great numbers in the real world.


Criminals who would never comply with such a licensing scheme anyway as they already don't get their guns through legal channels will still be there shooting each other and victimizing innocent people.

Why are you so butthurt that I have guns? How does it affect you at all?
 
2012-12-03 08:42:49 AM

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing everything he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gunCAR culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


FTFY

/TAG has to be for Costas
 
2012-12-03 08:44:14 AM
In other news, shooting people with a gun is still against the law. And just like we take the chance of happening across the path of some unrepentant asshole by going outside, we also take the risk that someone will decide today is the day to shoot us.

It's times like that that it's worth pointing out that most of those dying due to gun violence will be talked about as if their path to heaven is a short paved road. So naturally we should be happy that they are getting there expeditiously. Decrying the gun shot that sent them on their way makes it seem like the heaven notion is happy sappy bullshiat.
 
2012-12-03 08:44:41 AM

Hobodeluxe: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

So when is that time and place that it's appropriate to talk about such sacred subjects? People are killed with guns every day in the US.


People are killed by [insert minority group of choice here] every day.
Sooner or later it must be appropriate to talk about laws against [said minority group].

...Or maybe it never is, because the premise is flawed?

/We should be asking why people are violent rather than questioning the method of violence.
 
2012-12-03 08:44:46 AM

Hobodeluxe: GoldSpider: Enough with the "Huuur you need a license to drive, but not to own a gun!" stupidity.

The day driving becomes an enumerated constitutional right like the right to bear arms is the day you can start making that comparison without sounding like you slept through 10th grade civics.

just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.


May I also assume, then, that you would be OK with passing a civics exam prior to receiving your license to vote?
 
2012-12-03 08:45:09 AM

Hobodeluxe: just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.


I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it means, actually, even if personally I think licensing/screening is a good idea.

The problem is that if the government has the power to decide arbitrarily that "mental competence" is a valid reason to deny someone their constitutional rights, then it has the power to restrict ownership for ANY reason. That's what gets the hair up on a lot of people's backs.
 
2012-12-03 08:47:05 AM

way south: the premise is flawed?


The premise of equating people with guns in metaphor is flawed, yes.
 
2012-12-03 08:47:26 AM

heili skrimsli: You are certainly not above those of us who own firearms


I have two guns, WTF are you on about?

Oh. Right. Because I think the zealots who are persistently outraged every time somebody suggests that maybe the American view on firearms is a bit warped are morons I must hate guns. Of course. Because it's just not possible somebody could own firearms yet think that the rabid NRA-aligned zealots are just farking nuts.

But, yea, you're right. Swimming pools and Alaskan crab are the true scourges in America and it's perfectly normal and sane that you would bring them up in this context and not indicative at all of the sort of warped reality that I'm specifically calling out.
 
2012-12-03 08:48:12 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...so... let's get rid of those too.


There are options other than 'Give out guns like candy on Halloween' and 'Ban everything that even remotely looks like a gun'. There are ways to keep guns legal and available to those deemed responsible enough to own them and do a better job of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them.

I wish that California would do away with the bans and the other stupidity enacted to make it hard to legally get a gun and enact sensible gun control, not bans. If California could come up with a sensible way to do that, then maybe the rest of the nation would follow California's lead. As it is now, the bans in CA do little to reduce crime as those who want to break the law can get guns from out of state where it is pathetically easy to get a gun.

The pro-gun side better start offering up solutions to the problem of gun violence because eventually there will be one shooting too many and then Congress will be forced to act. At that point if the choices are really bad solutions (gun bans) and nothing (the pro-gun solution), guess which will get implemented?
 
2012-12-03 08:48:56 AM

Huck And Molly Ziegler

If I were truly sure I was in the right when I defended gun culture, unlimited gun rights, etc., I wouldn't go yelping like a scalded dog every time someone suggests we might want to enact a law or two to dial that culture back a notch.
Instead, I would quietly say "Fark you, enact what you want, I'M the one with the guns."

Those who squawl like 5-year-olds deprived of a toy are telling me that deep down inside, they know their position is indefensible.

Quite easily defended, your side just chooses to ignore facts that contradict your bed-wetting panic.
www.press.uchicago.eduwww.buyagunday.net


The sad thing is, they're convinced someone is about to actually do away with the entire 2nd Amendment. Shallow-minded extremism
Yeah, how would they get that idea?

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe."
--U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein Associated Press 11/18/93

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban,
picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,
"I would have done it."
--U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), CBS-TV's "60 Minutes," 2/5/95

"The Brady Bill's only effect will be to desensitize the public to regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."
--Charles Krauthammer. April 5 l996 Washington Post

"We'll take one step at a time, and the first is necessarily -given the political realities - very modest. We'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and then again to strengthen the next law and again and again. Our ultimate goal, total control of hand guns, is going to take time. The first problem is to slow down production and sales. Next is to get registration. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and ammunition (with a few exceptions) totally illegal."
--Pete Shields, founder of Handgun Control, Inc. New Yorker Magazine, June 26, 1976, pg. 53

the Brady Bill is:

Called the Brady bill, "the minimum step" Congress should take. "We need much stricter gun control and eventually we should bar ownership of handguns except in a few cases."
--W. Clay, Dem. Rep. St. Louis Post Dispatch., May 8, 1993, pg. A

"I will introduce legislation banning the sale manufacture or possession of hand-guns except in a few cases."
--Senator J. Chafee, Minneapolis Star Tribune, June 15. 1992, pg. A13

Ball's in your court, Sunshine.
 
2012-12-03 08:50:25 AM

OnlyM3: Quite easily defended


If you own a gun, your position is defensible.
 
2012-12-03 08:52:38 AM
Here's a question for the people who oppose any limitations on gun control as unconstitutional: would you prefer that the government amend the Constitution to explicitly give itself such powers? Or do you believe that any and all forms of gun ownership restrictions are inherently wrong?

I happen to support the former.
 
2012-12-03 08:57:25 AM

OnlyM3: Quite easily defended, your side just chooses to ignore facts that contradict your bed-wetting panic.


Would you like to buy my rock that keeps tigers away?
 
2012-12-03 08:57:36 AM
Ya, if Jovan didn't have a gun, everybody would be alive and happy right now.

/fark you costas
 
2012-12-03 08:59:24 AM

Joe Blowme: Lots of people needlessly die due to our gunCAR culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


This is also true. Driver's licenses should have caps on GVW with most people limited to
 
2012-12-03 09:04:34 AM

SkunkWerks: way south: the premise is flawed?

The premise of equating people with guns in metaphor is flawed, yes.


I don't see it that way.
You have cast blame on an object that is related to violence.
I can cast blame on the people who are related to violence.

If anything I can make a stronger argument, statistically speaking.

This doesn't make for a valid discussion on laws that go against human rights, in my case. There would be no right time or place.
Why should someone with a weaker argument get a free pass?
 
2012-12-03 09:04:42 AM

Hobodeluxe: to operate a car


...on public roads...

you must have completed the written test. the eye test and the driving skills test.

Are you seriously saying that gun owners should have to take a vision test? And, what exactly would a 'shooting skills test' be? Can I only have a gun if I hit the bulls-eye??

to the satisfaction of a state examiner and maintain insurance on the vehicles.

Are you claiming gun owners should have to have insurance? How exactly would that work?

not to mention passing a bit of a background check with your i.d. check and address check. to get my license I had to prove my d.o.b. all over again this year and have proof of residency. this is after having a license in this same state for over 40 yrs.

Um, ever hear about NICS?? "NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms or explosives. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn't otherwise ineligible to make a purchase"

getting a gun license is much easier that this.

Well, you don't need a background check to own a car.... or even get a DL.
 
2012-12-03 09:04:48 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


This. But (there's always one), smart, reasonable restrictions must be crafted by smart, reasonable people, and we have . . . Congress and state legislatures.
 
2012-12-03 09:05:34 AM
it's the price you pay for a free society. I accept it, you should to or leave the country


/lib-tard
 
2012-12-03 09:09:12 AM

Hobodeluxe: yeah I'm sure that is exactly what would happen. some libby lib treehugger psychiatrist would never give anyone a license because he's anti gun and the state let him keep the job.

but instead of operating off of what might happen in your imagination...


It's already happened with pharmacists refusing to give out birth control.
 
2012-12-03 09:09:26 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


But they are at odds with the actual words of the 2nd Amendment. So change it.
 
2012-12-03 09:09:46 AM

way south: I don't see it that way.


That's nice.
 
2012-12-03 09:11:52 AM
So you support taking away the firearms of the populace 'for our own safety.'
Know who else did that? Hitler.
Gun control was very prevalent in the south during the time of the Civil Rights movement.
Know why? To protect the lynch mobs from their victims.

Please, cite ONE example, just ONE factual historic example (an opinion piece does not count, must be backed by statistics) of a sustained lowered violent crime rate (Not just violent crimes by guns, total violent crime) attributed to greater restrictions on firearms, and I will be happy to re-evaluate my position on firearm ownership.

*crickets*
 
2012-12-03 09:13:28 AM

OnlyM3: Huck And Molly Ziegler

If I were truly sure I was in the right when I defended gun culture, unlimited gun rights, etc., I wouldn't go yelping like a scalded dog every time someone suggests we might want to enact a law or two to dial that culture back a notch.
Instead, I would quietly say "Fark you, enact what you want, I'M the one with the guns."

Those who squawl like 5-year-olds deprived of a toy are telling me that deep down inside, they know their position is indefensible.
Quite easily defended, your side just chooses to ignore facts that contradict your bed-wetting panic.
[www.press.uchicago.edu image 150x225][www.buyagunday.net image 255x300]


The sad thing is, they're convinced someone is about to actually do away with the entire 2nd Amendment. Shallow-minded extremism Yeah, how would they get that idea?

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe."
--U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein Associated Press 11/18/93

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban,
picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,
"I would have done it."
--U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), CBS-TV's "60 Minutes," 2/5/95

"The Brady Bill's only effect will be to desensitize the public to regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."
--Charles Krauthammer. April 5 l996 Washington Post

"We'll take one step at a time, and the first is necessarily -given the political realities - very modest. We'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and then again to strengthen the next law and again and again. Our ultimate goal, total control of hand guns, is going to take time. The first problem is to slow down production and sales. Next is to get registration. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and ammunition (with a few exceptions) totally illegal."
--Pete Shields, founder of Handgun Control, Inc. New Yorker Magazine, June 26, 1976, pg. 53

the B ...


Try finding a quote that isn't 20 years old. Oh wait, you can't. And why is that? Because gun control is dead at the Federal level. The only people still whining about guns are the fanatics who want everyone to walk around like the old west with a couple of six-shooters on their belt. Remember how in '08 all the gun nuts went out stockpiling guns and ammo (and after this election as well, for the matter) and nothing happened. In fact, Obama increased gun rights
 
2012-12-03 09:13:49 AM

Securitywyrm: *crickets*


*Hitlers*
 
2012-12-03 09:15:33 AM
This isn't really related, but I'm waiting for all the people who said that Obama was taking away all the guns as soon as he was elected to explain why he hasn't.
 
2012-12-03 09:17:42 AM

Orgasmatron138: This isn't really related, but I'm waiting for all the people who said that Obama was taking away all the guns as soon as he was elected to explain why he hasn't.


Simple: he subcontracted that task to Bob Costas.
 
2012-12-03 09:21:57 AM

Orgasmatron138: This isn't really related, but I'm waiting for all the people who said that Obama was taking away all the guns as soon as he was elected to explain why he hasn't.


Another Obama promise broken!
 
2012-12-03 09:22:52 AM
I was pondering gun control last night. Just on a whim because I am weird like that.
Guns sorta keep people in line if you think about it. You are MUCH less likely to be a dick if you think some nut job might decide they want to shoot you.
Then the idea that "Do countries like the UK have to deal with the same logic?" sprung up on me. The answer is yes, but instead of a gun it is a knife...and I don't know, maybe a UK farker can fill me in, but do they have "knife control nuts" in the UK like we have "gun control nuts?"
So I said fine, lets cave in, what about banning ALL weaponry? Then Ancient China came to mind...and kung fu. They didn't have weapons so they just wailed on each other with their fists in just the right way that they killed the other guy.
A prison has a weapons ban, but people STILL manage to kill each other and fashion crude weapons...yes, even guns!
The point being, you are NOT going to stop people from killing others if they really wanna do it. That NFL player would have stabbed his mother and cut his own throat instead of shooting her and then himself. It is a human nature thing and it is a problem that we will never resolve unless we all evolve as a species to something smarter.
 
2012-12-03 09:25:56 AM

Nemo's Brother: Serious Black: immrlizard: Harry_Seldon: Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Dear sage, please enlighten us with your words of wisdom. More people die every day in car accidents than die by handgun violence in a year. I guess it is only reasonable to say that getting rid of cars is the natural solution to that. Use your head for something other than a hat rack, guns are nothing but objects. The football player that triggered this outburst wanted his wife dead. If he didn't have access to a gun, there is no doubt he would have used something else. It would be better to get rid of the reason that these people are doing these things rather than the tool they use to do them. Otherwise, they will continue to happen.

We require people to be certified to operate a car. Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.

And you idiots are trying to ban popcorn, soda,salt, cigarettes (except menthol as you have to appease the black voters), and fried food. You put so many bans in some of your big cities and then cry about a good dessert.


Thanks for lumping me in with Michael Bloomberg, jackass. I thought the McDonald's Happy Meal bans in San Francisco were ludicrous, and I also think the cap on soda drinks in NYC is insane. As for cigarettes, I'd like to keep them the way they are (legal, need to be 21 to buy) except I would require them to put clear warning signs on the packs saying "SMOKING KILLS."
 
2012-12-03 09:29:17 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


Such as? If you are referring to background checks for criminal history or psychiatric issues, I'm with you. Otherwise, "...shall not be infringed" speaks plainly enough.
 
2012-12-03 09:29:24 AM

DeathCipris: It is a human nature thing and it is a problem that we will never resolve unless we all evolve as a species to something smarter.


You're assuming evolution will favor intelligence- or any trait for that matter- simply because someone in a Fark thread thinks it solves this particular matter.

In the mean time, I suppose we shouldn't attempt to curb it in any way, eh?
 
2012-12-03 09:31:15 AM

Peter von Nostrand: Try finding a quote that isn't 20 years old. Oh wait, you can't. And why is that? Because gun control is dead at the Federal level. The only people still whining about guns are the fanatics who want everyone to walk around like the old west with a couple of six-shooters on their belt. Remember how in '08 all the gun nuts went out stockpiling guns and ammo (and after this election as well, for the matter) and nothing happened. In fact, Obama increased gun rights


Really? Finding this took about 12 seconds on the Googles, and I don't even look for this stuff like a lot of folks do.

Slowly bringing up legislation on gun control using buzz words like "assault weapons" is laying down the slip-and-slide on the slope toward full bans. It's the exact same is the crazy righties who want 24 hour waiting periods for abortions. It looks innocent enough until you pull back the curtain and look at the ultimate goal.
 
2012-12-03 09:34:43 AM

FilmBELOH20: Slowly bringing up legislation on gun control using buzz words like "assault weapons" is laying down the slip-and-slide on the slope toward full bans. It's the exact same is the crazy righties who want 24 hour waiting periods for abortions.


Meh, they solve for each other. I may not be able to abort that fetus after a certain time, but at least I'll have easy access to firearms so I can shoot it after that period.
 
2012-12-03 09:35:13 AM

Representative of the unwashed masses: Ok, being a Canuckistani, who owns no guns, may I make the following suggestion. Granted that I'm sure that it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.

Require people to take a gun safety course when they first decide to purchase a weapon, and pass, a la a licensing exam. As part of said course, have a portion (say an hour of a weekend long course in my view) where people are told how to recognize situations where their judgment can be clouded and how to get out of or defuse those situations.

From my cultural viewpoint, you guys take guns to an extreme. In terms of gun ownership and use you guys are waaaaayyyy ahead of most of the western world. Sadly crimes where guns are invioved are much more common. Access can correlate almost directly with use, just like places with lots of cars have lots of accidents.

You guys have fun with trying to come up with an answer on that issue. I'm glad that here in Canada, it's much more rare that I hear about gun violence.


Your perspective is from a culture that has not enjoyed freedom to the same extent America has. Don't get me wrong... I love Canada. You guys have been our friends through thick and thin. But there is still a fundamental difference between us.
 
2012-12-03 09:35:31 AM

SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: It is a human nature thing and it is a problem that we will never resolve unless we all evolve as a species to something smarter.

You're assuming evolution will favor intelligence- or any trait for that matter- simply because someone in a Fark thread thinks it solves this particular matter.

In the mean time, I suppose we shouldn't attempt to curb it in any way, eh?


Fine, Mr. Pedantic, evolve to understand one another and quit killing each other over stupid shiat. My point, since you seem to be having trouble with it, is that gun control will NOT stop people from killing one another. People will still stab, punch, pummel, run over, stab, shoot, impale, cheeto, strangle, etc. the other person that they think needs to stop breathing. Taking away the guns will do nothing to curb this behavior.
 
2012-12-03 09:37:23 AM

DeathCipris: evolve to understand one another and quit killing each other over stupid shiat


You don't understand how evolution works, do you?

DeathCipris: Taking away the guns will do nothing to curb this behavior.


So, again, we should do nothing, right?
 
2012-12-03 09:39:21 AM
Ahh anti gun threads. I guess the Circumcision and Pitbull threads were getting a lil tired so we will have a month of these.
 
2012-12-03 09:41:34 AM

orclover: Ahh anti gun threads. I guess the Circumcision and Pitbull threads were getting a lil tired so we will have a month of these.


Why only have one at a time? I want a thread wherein we discuss the matter of controlling uncircumcised pit bulls right to own firearms.
 
2012-12-03 09:41:53 AM
Gun Control laws won't do jack shiat. Hell, look at that crap in Wyoming. No guns involved and yet 3 people still died. If someone wants you dead, they're damn well going to try and make that happen with or without a gun! And there isn't a single law that will prevent that. Quit being dumbasses.
 
2012-12-03 09:42:40 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


The lazy moron's argument regarding gun control. The express purpose of a car, unlike a gun, is not to kill.
 
2012-12-03 09:42:49 AM

Peter von Nostrand: Try finding a quote that isn't 20 years old. Oh wait, you can't. And why is that? Because gun control is dead at the Federal level. The only people still whining about guns are the fanatics who want everyone to walk around like the old west with a couple of six-shooters on their belt. Remember how in '08 all the gun nuts went out stockpiling guns and ammo (and after this election as well, for the matter) and nothing happened. In fact, Obama increased gun rights


Do you know why it's dead at the Federal level? The people who are watching out for your rights. First the 2nd, then the 1st, then the 4th... where do the erosion of rights stop?

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.


When will you speak out?
 
2012-12-03 09:47:08 AM

CrappityCrap: Hell, look at that crap in Wyoming.


Meanwhile, in Wyoming:

chandlerswatch.com
 
2012-12-03 09:47:34 AM

FilmBELOH20: Peter von Nostrand: Try finding a quote that isn't 20 years old. Oh wait, you can't. And why is that? Because gun control is dead at the Federal level. The only people still whining about guns are the fanatics who want everyone to walk around like the old west with a couple of six-shooters on their belt. Remember how in '08 all the gun nuts went out stockpiling guns and ammo (and after this election as well, for the matter) and nothing happened. In fact, Obama increased gun rights

Really? Finding this took about 12 seconds on the Googles, and I don't even look for this stuff like a lot of folks do.

Slowly bringing up legislation on gun control using buzz words like "assault weapons" is laying down the slip-and-slide on the slope toward full bans. It's the exact same is the crazy righties who want 24 hour waiting periods for abortions. It looks innocent enough until you pull back the curtain and look at the ultimate goal.


I didn't realize it was my job to find quotes for someone else. I'm sure the non-existent legislation will get sign by Obama any day now....

xterraadam: Peter von Nostrand: Try finding a quote that isn't 20 years old. Oh wait, you can't. And why is that? Because gun control is dead at the Federal level. The only people still whining about guns are the fanatics who want everyone to walk around like the old west with a couple of six-shooters on their belt. Remember how in '08 all the gun nuts went out stockpiling guns and ammo (and after this election as well, for the matter) and nothing happened. In fact, Obama increased gun rights

Do you know why it's dead at the Federal level? The people who are watching out for your rights. First the 2nd, then the 1st, then the 4th... where do the erosion of rights stop?

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

When will you speak out?


Too bad you weren't worried about rights when the Patriot Act was passed
 
2012-12-03 09:47:43 AM

SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: evolve to understand one another and quit killing each other over stupid shiat

You don't understand how evolution works, do you?

DeathCipris: Taking away the guns will do nothing to curb this behavior.

So, again, we should do nothing, right?


Good GOD you are dense...

Yes, I DO understand how evolution works,. What I have been saying is we NEED to head that direction to fix this problem. Will we? Probably not.

So we should waste taxpayer money and government time to take a step that does nothing? You are a moron. VA has some of the most lax gun laws in the US aside from TX. Yet, we didn't even scratch the top 10 for gun related homocides. (Photo from upthread)

img.photobucket.com

Show me some reliable data that violent crime is reduced by increasing gun control.
 
2012-12-03 09:48:34 AM
ITT: People blame "gun culture" for violence when the reality is that in the United States you are unlikely to be a victim of gun violence if you are not a gang member or hanger-on or involved in the drug trade. Then, those same people fail to examine why thug shiatheads are not in prison. Futhermore, counting suicide as a problem of gun ownership is simply retarded because no humane person thinks that suicide should be prohibited.
 
2012-12-03 09:49:35 AM

Bio-nic: The problems aren't the tools we use to hurt ourselves, merely that we have a systematic breakdown of society that prevents us from recognizing the difference between WHAT we are doing vs WHY we are doing it.


Right that we don't understand why we do things.
Wrongo-Keebler that it's a systematic breakdown of society.

This is not a country where most people ever learned to ask why. Never has been such a country. That was a privilege for the Founders and the odd public intellectual. For most of us, freedom means we get to vote, work like hell, not starve, and there's no king or anyone dragging us off in the night. Asking the big questions is a luxury. It always will be.
 
2012-12-03 09:54:27 AM

CrappityCrap: Gun Control laws won't do jack shiat. Hell, look at that crap in Wyoming. No guns involved and yet 3 people still died. If someone wants you dead, they're damn well going to try and make that happen with or without a gun! And there isn't a single law that will prevent that. Quit being dumbasses.


See, I have a problem with the "They'll just use something else to kill you" argument. Yes, if someone is really determined to see someone dead, there are many tools and means at their disposal to make that happen.

However a gun is ideal for facilitating a killing of passion/impulse. It's easy, requires no physical ability, and it's equally effective at a distance. When was the last time you read about a drive-by knifing?
 
2012-12-03 09:56:25 AM

DeathCipris: Yes, I DO understand how evolution works


I really don't think you do.

Here's a hint: Evolution doesn't move in purposeful directions. It favors traits that are most helpful to survival. Survival that gets your genes into the next generation, thus reinforcing that trait. It's also heavily ruled by circumstances and timing.

Sometimes circumstances dictate that survival means killing another of your species.

So, if you're waiting for us to "evolve" into hugging our enemies into submission, you might not want to hold your breath on that. This isn't going to solve the problem either, far from "anytime soon" try "ever".

DeathCipris: Good GOD you are dense


I don't think I deserved that, considering that I've evidently had to explain Evolution to you. Did you miss most of Sixth Grade Biology?

DeathCipris: You are a moron.


See above.

DeathCipris: Show me some reliable data that violent crime is reduced by increasing gun control.


Show me where this is the debate you and I are having.

In the meantime, I'll ask the question again (and please try to bear in mind, Evolution isn't going to save us here, not because it doesn't love us or anything, but simply because that isn't how it works):

We should do nothing then?
 
2012-12-03 09:58:48 AM

SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: evolve to understand one another and quit killing each other over stupid shiat

You don't understand how evolution works, do you?

DeathCipris: Taking away the guns will do nothing to curb this behavior.

So, again, we should do nothing, right?


If you want to do something to help, try fixing a broken system that lets violent criminals back out with a slap on the wrist or levies a felony charge on the pothead for lighting a joint. This, as I have already said, is a Societal and Human nature issue. People will kill each other regardless of the implements. The best we can do right now, until we can evolve to a higher level of thinking (not saying will happen), is to correct a broken system that is not designed to reform violent criminals, just merely let them back into society after a per-determined amount of time.
 
2012-12-03 10:03:03 AM

DeathCipris: This, as I have already said, is a Societal and Human nature issue.


Pretty much that pertains to our society is.

That doesn't preclude us from the ability- or the responsibility- to solve for it. Just because "it's a human nature thing" doesn't make it insurmountable.

DeathCipris: The best we can do right now, until we can evolve to a higher level of thinking

*SMACK!*


Bad, DeathCipris, Bad!
 
2012-12-03 10:05:22 AM

SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: Yes, I DO understand how evolution works

I really don't think you do.

Here's a hint: Evolution doesn't move in purposeful directions. It favors traits that are most helpful to survival. Survival that gets your genes into the next generation, thus reinforcing that trait. It's also heavily ruled by circumstances and timing.

Sometimes circumstances dictate that survival means killing another of your species.

So, if you're waiting for us to "evolve" into hugging our enemies into submission, you might not want to hold your breath on that. This isn't going to solve the problem either, far from "anytime soon" try "ever".

DeathCipris: Good GOD you are dense

I don't think I deserved that, considering that I've evidently had to explain Evolution to you. Did you miss most of Sixth Grade Biology?

DeathCipris: You are a moron.

See above.

DeathCipris: Show me some reliable data that violent crime is reduced by increasing gun control.

Show me where this is the debate you and I are having.

In the meantime, I'll ask the question again (and please try to bear in mind, Evolution isn't going to save us here, not because it doesn't love us or anything, but simply because that isn't how it works):

We should do nothing then?


UGH...this is the LAST time I am going to explain this to you...

Evolution
a : a process of change in a certain direction : unfolding
b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : emission
c (1) : a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : growth (2) : a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance
d : something evolved

The word "evolution" has more than one definition. I am using it as above. I AM familiar with how Biological Evolution works. Can it happen? YES, but not without MASSIVE societal changes to favor the intelligent and hundreds of thousands of years of time to take root.
 
2012-12-03 10:09:41 AM

SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: This, as I have already said, is a Societal and Human nature issue.

Pretty much that pertains to our society is.

That doesn't preclude us from the ability- or the responsibility- to solve for it. Just because "it's a human nature thing" doesn't make it insurmountable.

DeathCipris: The best we can do right now, until we can evolve to a higher level of thinking

*SMACK!*

Bad, DeathCipris, Bad!


You are far too dense to even bother explaining things anymore. Re-read my posts and you will see that I suggested things we can do as a society to get on a better path and help with this behavior.
 
2012-12-03 10:10:18 AM

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


I need one for my job...
 
2012-12-03 10:11:03 AM

Peter von Nostrand: Too bad you weren't worried about rights when the Patriot Act was passed


A good many of us tried. Controlling people through fear is much too strong sometimes unfortunately.
 
2012-12-03 10:12:54 AM

GoldSpider: AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.

But they are at odds with the actual words of the 2nd Amendment. So change it.


BoobySnacks: AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.

Such as? If you are referring to background checks for criminal history or psychiatric issues, I'm with you. Otherwise, "...shall not be infringed" speaks plainly enough.


"A well regulated militia..."


/just saying
//gun control is hitting center mass
 
2012-12-03 10:16:01 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.


That was exactly the time and place. You're just too "yeehaw" to know it.
 
2012-12-03 10:19:37 AM

DeathCipris: UGH...this is the LAST time I am going to explain this to you...


You got the changey part. You still don't seem to grasp the "why" part.

You seem to think Evolution is a great replacement for God. It's not. God is sapient and- while he purportedly moves in mysterious ways- those ways are generally understood as being to the overall benefit of his creation.

Time and circumstance, and not "good intentions", dominate Evolution.

Hence, if we evolve to some "higher level of thinking", it very likely won't be due to any particular need to stop shooting one another.


DeathCipris: The word "evolution" has more than one definition.


It's definition isn't relevant. What it can and cannot do is. To put it bluntly: what you're proposing doesn't work.

So I'm asking you, why do you propose we do nothing? Because if you're hoping that the notion that "time heals all ills" will work this out eventually, prepare for disappointment here.

DeathCipris: You are far too dense to even bother explaining things anymore.


Odd, I'm feeling the same way about you. Yet I have this strange, dim faith in human nature for some reason...

DeathCipris: Re-read my posts


Dear god, why would I want to do that when I understood the malformed and invalid concepts they were peddling the first time?
 
2012-12-03 10:20:31 AM

GoldSpider: CrappityCrap: Gun Control laws won't do jack shiat. Hell, look at that crap in Wyoming. No guns involved and yet 3 people still died. If someone wants you dead, they're damn well going to try and make that happen with or without a gun! And there isn't a single law that will prevent that. Quit being dumbasses.

See, I have a problem with the "They'll just use something else to kill you" argument. Yes, if someone is really determined to see someone dead, there are many tools and means at their disposal to make that happen.

However a gun is ideal for facilitating a killing of passion/impulse. It's easy, requires no physical ability, and it's equally effective at a distance. When was the last time you read about a drive-by knifing?


And how is a Gun Control law going to prevent a drive-by? The guns used in almost all cases like that are either stolen or bought off somewhere else in some underhanded way and thus illegal anyway with or without the 'Gun Control' law. All 'Gun Control' will be effective at doing is make it much more difficult for lawful individuals who don't have the means to acquire these black-market weapons and prevent them from defending themselves from those who do. A law will NOT prevent a violent individuals from being violent nor will they make guns magically disappear.
 
2012-12-03 10:23:44 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Frank N Stein: HaywoodJablonski: Are you more scared of black people or Hispanics?

Ok, so you're a troll. Congrats.

Answer the question.

Alternatively, please convince me why you need a handgun


Right after you convince me why you need religion. Or speech. Or to be protected from unreasonable searches. If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to hide, right?
 
2012-12-03 10:24:41 AM

Hobodeluxe: Jim_Callahan: As for licenses, we do require licenses for the use of guns in ways with a potential to be dangerous to bystanders (concealed carry of handguns for self-defense), just as we only require licensing for vehicles used in ways potentially dangerous to bystanders (you can drive whatever you want on your own property, and certain vehicles with low maximum speeds like farm tractors can be taken on public roads without license). It's pretty internally consistent.

to operate a car you must have completed the written test. the eye test and the driving skills test. to the satisfaction of a state examiner and maintain insurance on the vehicles. not to mention passing a bit of a background check with your i.d. check and address check. to get my license I had to prove my d.o.b. all over again this year and have proof of residency. this is after having a license in this same state for over 40 yrs.

getting a gun license is much easier that this.


I think it's a matter of state law as to whether or not you have to have a license to drive on your own private property. I know I was 'farm driving' long before I was eligible.
 
2012-12-03 10:25:23 AM
Why stop there, Bob? If only gunpowder didn't work...
Except it does and there's no law that would ever pass Constitutional muster that is going to keep these sort of incidents from happening. Bob hasn't reconciled his weird East coast liberal idealism with reality.
That makes him an asshat.
 
2012-12-03 10:25:38 AM

SkunkWerks: In the meantime, I'll ask the question again (and please try to bear in mind, Evolution isn't going to save us here, not because it doesn't love us or anything, but simply because that isn't how it works):

We should do nothing then?


You want to drastically reduce gun related violence? Start working against the War on Drugs.
 
2012-12-03 10:26:00 AM

Gleeman: GoldSpider: AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.

But they are at odds with the actual words of the 2nd Amendment. So change it.

BoobySnacks: AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.

Such as? If you are referring to background checks for criminal history or psychiatric issues, I'm with you. Otherwise, "...shall not be infringed" speaks plainly enough.

"A well regulated militia..."


/just saying
//gun control is hitting center mass


You kind of trailed off there. Since I see this brought up a lot, I'm just going to post this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_State s_Constitution#Meaning_of_.22well_regulated_militia.22

Basically, in the lingua franca, well regulated meant well equipped. It does not invoke regulation in the modern sense.
 
2012-12-03 10:26:06 AM

CrappityCrap: And how is a Gun Control law going to prevent a drive-by? The guns used in almost all cases like that are either stolen or bought off somewhere else in some underhanded way


Pretty obvious man, if America ever banned assault weapons and handguns there wouldn't be MILLIONS of them sitting around in the den's of America's NRA members and red state dwellers to be stolen and/or resold in some underhanded way.
 
2012-12-03 10:26:23 AM
It doesn't take much to put gun-lovers on the defensive. All that happened was a couple of people expressed their opinions. So much whining over nothing.
 
2012-12-03 10:28:16 AM
At 26 seconds he quotes someone else's (Whitlock) article by saying "hand guns do not enhance our safety" and I have to wake up to opinion channels disguised as news stations blabbering on.

The only thing I love about the gun control issue is that gun ownership and advocation is a liberal cause yet it is bitterly fought for by conservatives and bitterly opposed by liberals. You get what you pay for. This is all a diversion. Fiscal cliff. blah blah blah. tick tock tick tock.
 
2012-12-03 10:28:55 AM

redmid17: Start working against the War on Drugs.


Not as convinced as some that it's got everything completely wrong, but I tend to agree that much of it is deeply flawed and does contribute to gun violence, and other forms of violence as well. It would take a fine bite out of the problem.

Still, I don't know if "drastically" is the right adjective. I'm sure there's other things we can look at as well.
 
2012-12-03 10:29:09 AM

Rent Party: AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.

Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access would not have prevented this tragedy from happening. Belcher was an American success story, right up until the time he murdered his girlfriend.


But he was correct that a legally obtained gun is far more likely to be used as Belcher did than to defend against an attacker.

I am deeply suspicious of anti-gun legislation. But this nation as a pathology. No, two pathologies: gun violence, and the hysterical effort from the right to silence any attempt to discuss gun violence.
 
2012-12-03 10:32:21 AM
fark Bob Costas. I bet he has more guns than I do.
 
2012-12-03 10:32:54 AM

fredklein: Hobodeluxe: yeah I'm sure that is exactly what would happen. some libby lib treehugger psychiatrist would never give anyone a license because he's anti gun and the state let him keep the job.

but instead of operating off of what might happen in your imagination...

It's already happened with pharmacists refusing to give out birth control.


So? No one is REQUIRING that you have a gun or know how to use a gun or sell guns to other people.

This analogy is very very lame.

// And the pharmacist should have the right to sell or not sell any legal product they choose. If you don't like it go to another pharmacy.
 
2012-12-03 10:33:18 AM

SkunkWerks: redmid17: Start working against the War on Drugs.

Not as convinced as some that it's got everything completely wrong, but I tend to agree that much of it is deeply flawed and does contribute to gun violence, and other forms of violence as well. It would take a fine bite out of the problem.

Still, I don't know if "drastically" is the right adjective. I'm sure there's other things we can look at as well.


Of for sure, but if you look at crime, especially in big cities like Chicago, most of the gun violence is drug related. Even the stuff that isn't directly about drugs is stilled tied into the gangs. The CPD commissioner came out and said 80% of murders are gang related. Now Chicago might skew a bit high because of the way they approached the gang situation -- cut the head off and watch it die -- which resulted in a splintering of the larger gangs and much more violence than before. But still, if you dry up the drug pipeline, suddenly the need for defending turf goes down significantly and the means with which to purchase guns shrinks as well. The low level guys shooting everyone don't make a lot of money, and the guys "upstairs" have a vested interest in keeping their turf safe as to not drive off business.
 
2012-12-03 10:34:46 AM

CrappityCrap: A law will NOT prevent a violent individuals from being violent nor will they make guns magically disappear.


100% correct, but "reasonable" gun control isn't the idea that one law is going to end all gun violence. Effective gun control is a collection of laws that each address a specific problem, with the goal of reducing gun deaths that CAN be managed through laws. I believe things like psych evaluations of prospective gun owners and mandatory safety training fall under this category.

Unfortunately, gun laws are mostly ineffective in dealing directly with illegally owned/purchased firearms. For that, it makes more sense to me to try to address the factors that lead to violent confrontations, such as drug legalization.
 
2012-12-03 10:35:49 AM

Hobodeluxe: GoldSpider: Enough with the "Huuur you need a license to drive, but not to own a gun!" stupidity.

The day driving becomes an enumerated constitutional right like the right to bear arms is the day you can start making that comparison without sounding like you slept through 10th grade civics.

just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.


Well, you have the right to vote regardless of you ability (or lack thereof) to understand how the constitution works or why its in place, so I'd let that one go, there, champ
 
2012-12-03 10:39:52 AM

DeathCipris: SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: evolve to understand one another and quit killing each other over stupid shiat

You don't understand how evolution works, do you?

DeathCipris: Taking away the guns will do nothing to curb this behavior.

So, again, we should do nothing, right?

Good GOD you are dense...

Yes, I DO understand how evolution works,. What I have been saying is we NEED to head that direction to fix this problem. Will we? Probably not.

So we should waste taxpayer money and government time to take a step that does nothing? You are a moron. VA has some of the most lax gun laws in the US aside from TX. Yet, we didn't even scratch the top 10 for gun related homocides. (Photo from upthread)

[img.photobucket.com image 550x711]

Show me some reliable data that violent crime is reduced by increasing gun control.


Doesn't DC have very strict gun control laws or am I missing something here
 
2012-12-03 10:46:52 AM
I really respect Bob Costas, his charity work helps thousands of little children. He is truely a classy person, and it's obvious he really doesn't want to see anyone get hurt. Even his career is entertainment - he enjoys making people happy and helping them have fun for a bit.

But I am also strongly pro second amendment. I've had a CCW for decades, and a gun collection that probably has me on a watch list or three.

I listened to his comments, and can't really disagree. For many people, having a gun means the difference between swallowing your pride and walking away, or puffing up and escalating.

Having a gun makes that person more powerful - and let's face it, not everyone handles power well. While some will keep that weapon to defend their family, others will use it on their family. In the heat of passion many people make mistakes - guns can turn those mistakes into tragedies.

I don't think a ban is the answer, and I'm not sure Costas was proposing one. But we do need to discuss our gun culture, and "shooting down" a person for even bringing it up is not the right approach.
 
2012-12-03 10:48:16 AM

CujoQuarrel: DeathCipris: SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: evolve to understand one another and quit killing each other over stupid shiat

You don't understand how evolution works, do you?

DeathCipris: Taking away the guns will do nothing to curb this behavior.

So, again, we should do nothing, right?

Good GOD you are dense...

Yes, I DO understand how evolution works,. What I have been saying is we NEED to head that direction to fix this problem. Will we? Probably not.

So we should waste taxpayer money and government time to take a step that does nothing? You are a moron. VA has some of the most lax gun laws in the US aside from TX. Yet, we didn't even scratch the top 10 for gun related homocides. (Photo from upthread)

[img.photobucket.com image 550x711]

Show me some reliable data that violent crime is reduced by increasing gun control.

Doesn't DC have very strict gun control laws or am I missing something here


You are correct. They are VERY strict (as bad as Chicago and the entire state of MA) and per capita, have the highest rate of firearm-related homicides according to 2010 FBI data mentioned upthread.
 
2012-12-03 10:48:26 AM

DeathCipris: SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: evolve to understand one another and quit killing each other over stupid shiat

You don't understand how evolution works, do you?

DeathCipris: Taking away the guns will do nothing to curb this behavior.

So, again, we should do nothing, right?

Good GOD you are dense...

Yes, I DO understand how evolution works,. What I have been saying is we NEED to head that direction to fix this problem. Will we? Probably not.

So we should waste taxpayer money and government time to take a step that does nothing? You are a moron. VA has some of the most lax gun laws in the US aside from TX. Yet, we didn't even scratch the top 10 for gun related homocides. (Photo from upthread)

[img.photobucket.com image 550x711]

Show me some reliable data that violent crime is reduced by increasing gun control.


Despite its reputation, Texas gun laws aren't really all that much to write home about. Alabama and Florida are definitely more lax. Hell, even Louisiana has open carry (although they do require state registration of NFA stuff *shakes tiny fist*).
 
2012-12-03 10:49:02 AM

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?


Suicides involving guns, which two of you three statistics use, is not a good measurement when looking at gun deaths.

Why? Because countries with an outright gun ban, such as Japan, proves that gun accessibility has little effect on overall suicide rates.
 
2012-12-03 10:49:58 AM

Red_Fox: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

That was exactly the time and place. You're just too "yeehaw" to know it.


So if he'd have gone on a rant either for or against abortion that would have been ok?

It was a football game - not a news show. I don't care about his opinion on any thing non-football related.

Actually I don't care about his opinion at all but that's another matter.
 
2012-12-03 10:50:27 AM

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.

Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.


NH has lots of guns and nit a lot of gun problems. Why?
 
2012-12-03 10:51:01 AM

CrappityCrap: GoldSpider: CrappityCrap: Gun Control laws won't do jack shiat. Hell, look at that crap in Wyoming. No guns involved and yet 3 people still died. If someone wants you dead, they're damn well going to try and make that happen with or without a gun! And there isn't a single law that will prevent that. Quit being dumbasses.

See, I have a problem with the "They'll just use something else to kill you" argument. Yes, if someone is really determined to see someone dead, there are many tools and means at their disposal to make that happen.

However a gun is ideal for facilitating a killing of passion/impulse. It's easy, requires no physical ability, and it's equally effective at a distance. When was the last time you read about a drive-by knifing?

And how is a Gun Control law going to prevent a drive-by? The guns used in almost all cases like that are either stolen or bought off somewhere else in some underhanded way and thus illegal anyway with or without the 'Gun Control' law. All 'Gun Control' will be effective at doing is make it much more difficult for lawful individuals who don't have the means to acquire these black-market weapons and prevent them from defending themselves from those who do. A law will NOT prevent a violent individuals from being violent nor will they make guns magically disappear.


We just make drive by shootings illegal and bingo no drive by shootings.

You're so simple.
 
2012-12-03 10:52:22 AM

redmid17: SkunkWerks: redmid17: Start working against the War on Drugs.

Not as convinced as some that it's got everything completely wrong, but I tend to agree that much of it is deeply flawed and does contribute to gun violence, and other forms of violence as well. It would take a fine bite out of the problem.

Still, I don't know if "drastically" is the right adjective. I'm sure there's other things we can look at as well.

Of for sure, but if you look at crime, especially in big cities like Chicago, most of the gun violence is drug related. Even the stuff that isn't directly about drugs is stilled tied into the gangs. The CPD commissioner came out and said 80% of murders are gang related. Now Chicago might skew a bit high because of the way they approached the gang situation -- cut the head off and watch it die -- which resulted in a splintering of the larger gangs and much more violence than before. But still, if you dry up the drug pipeline, suddenly the need for defending turf goes down significantly and the means with which to purchase guns shrinks as well. The low level guys shooting everyone don't make a lot of money, and the guys "upstairs" have a vested interest in keeping their turf safe as to not drive off business.


Careful, redmid17, it is like debating with a brick wall.
 
2012-12-03 10:52:40 AM

Serious Black: As for cigarettes, I'd like to keep them the way they are (legal, need to be 21 to buy)


I'm pretty sure you currently only need to be 18 to buy cigs... (Which is pretty stupid, since they're worse for you than booze...)
 
2012-12-03 10:52:52 AM
Humans: Guns and pills for all!
..later that day.

*BREAKING NEWS*

"Wharblegarble guns and pills and humans."
 
2012-12-03 10:54:37 AM

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder

When did I mention handgun bans?

And why are you so over the top angry that anyone even WANTS to discuss the problem of rampant gun violence in the United States?


And why are you so over the top angry that anyone even WANTS to discuss the problem of rampant gun violence in the United States?

Fixed that for you. We do we blame the tool and not the person?
 
2012-12-03 10:54:58 AM

RobFMJ: DeathCipris: SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: evolve to understand one another and quit killing each other over stupid shiat

You don't understand how evolution works, do you?

DeathCipris: Taking away the guns will do nothing to curb this behavior.

So, again, we should do nothing, right?

Good GOD you are dense...

Yes, I DO understand how evolution works,. What I have been saying is we NEED to head that direction to fix this problem. Will we? Probably not.

So we should waste taxpayer money and government time to take a step that does nothing? You are a moron. VA has some of the most lax gun laws in the US aside from TX. Yet, we didn't even scratch the top 10 for gun related homocides. (Photo from upthread)

[img.photobucket.com image 550x711]

Show me some reliable data that violent crime is reduced by increasing gun control.

Despite its reputation, Texas gun laws aren't really all that much to write home about. Alabama and Florida are definitely more lax. Hell, even Louisiana has open carry (although they do require state registration of NFA stuff *shakes tiny fist*).


Ah, my bad then. FL would be a better example and LA too. Does LA even require a class-3 license to own an automatic weapon?
 
2012-12-03 10:55:57 AM

Red_Fox: CrappityCrap: And how is a Gun Control law going to prevent a drive-by? The guns used in almost all cases like that are either stolen or bought off somewhere else in some underhanded way

Pretty obvious man, if America ever banned assault weapons and handguns there wouldn't be MILLIONS of them sitting around in the den's of America's NRA members and red state dwellers to be stolen and/or resold in some underhanded way.


Yeah. Look at Mexico where you pretty much are limited to .38 revolvers and 'assault weapons' (i.e. cosmetically enhanced rifles) are banned. You don't see the gangsters down there killing people right and left. I believe they just point their fingers at you and say 'Bang!!'
 
2012-12-03 10:57:12 AM
I love it. Last year the square community was all "you tell 'em Bob! I am also tired of those hotdogging and showboating football players!"

How does it feel when the Costas Opinion Piece isn't one of your pet-peeves? Will you ever agree with his Tebow praise again? Will you still love Lolo Jones when you know Bob does too?
 
2012-12-03 10:57:49 AM

BgJonson79: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.

Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.

NH has lots of guns and nit a lot of gun problems. Why?


Because there's nothing worth stealing in NH.
 
2012-12-03 10:58:13 AM

Serious Black: I thought the point of the 2nd Amendment was to be able to call up a milita at a moment's notice rather than to protect yourself.


Read the Federalist papers.

SkunkWerks: What if she didn't want a gun though?


Doesn't matter. It should be her right to have one whether she wants one or not. gun control advocates would rather she become a victim rather than use a gun to protect herself
 
2012-12-03 10:59:36 AM

GoldSpider: CrappityCrap: A law will NOT prevent a violent individuals from being violent nor will they make guns magically disappear.

100% correct, but "reasonable" gun control isn't the idea that one law is going to end all gun violence. Effective gun control is a collection of laws that each address a specific problem, with the goal of reducing gun deaths that CAN be managed through laws. I believe things like psych evaluations of prospective gun owners and mandatory safety training fall under this category.

Unfortunately, gun laws are mostly ineffective in dealing directly with illegally owned/purchased firearms. For that, it makes more sense to me to try to address the factors that lead to violent confrontations, such as drug legalization.


Pysch evaluations and training is fine but outright and complete banning of certain weapon are not feasible to implement.

Don't see how drug legalization will help other than create even more drug addicts, unstable individuals and all sorts of other dregs of society. You might solve one problem but you'll be creating others.
 
2012-12-03 11:00:51 AM
Bob says if we had no guns they would be alive today. That's great then tell Nicole and Ron that OJ doesn't own a gun so no need to worry. With Pictures!
 
2012-12-03 11:00:52 AM

Rapmaster2000: I love it. Last year the square community was all "you tell 'em Bob! I am also tired of those hotdogging and showboating football players!"

How does it feel when the Costas Opinion Piece isn't one of your pet-peeves? Will you ever agree with his Tebow praise again? Will you still love Lolo Jones when you know Bob does too?


"Stop celebrating?" Their job's to catch a ball. I don't care if you get in the end zone and have a ten-minute tea party, it's a game. Just don't get mad at me when you're paralyzed from the neck down being carted off the field 'cause some free safety took your head off, and you see me in the stands going, "ha-ha! dance now, you overpaid clown! How does it feel to know God hates you? Maybe V-8 will sponsor a vegetable!"
-Tosh
 
2012-12-03 11:01:29 AM

Rapmaster2000: BgJonson79: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.

Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.

NH has lots of guns and nit a lot of gun problems. Why?

Because there's nothing worth stealing in NH.


Aren't we one of the richest per capita states? Like, just about on par with MA, yet they have way more issues. I wonder why that might be?
 
2012-12-03 11:01:42 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


Don't we have those? No gun ownership before 18, no handgun ownership before 21, no purchase before background check. No ownership of automatic weapons or destructive devices, etc. What else is there that is smart that we aren't doing?
 
2012-12-03 11:02:59 AM

Anarchangel: Gun ownership? Nothing wrong with it. I have no issues with the legality of any weapons.

Glorifying gun ownership, however, is ridiculous. You can show a guy getting shot in the farking head on network TV but you can't show a bare female breast without getting fined. You can't say "fark" on a talk show, but we can have 25 cop shows, 10 war movies and a million ads for a first-person shooter video game. There's like 100 reality shows about guns, gun owners, gun range visitors, gun inventors, shooting guns, bigger guns, better guns, guns that haven't been invented yet but seem like a cool idea...

That part, I think, is the problem - not the fact that you can legally own one. Glorification of weapons is usually kinda silly IMO when in moderate amounts. We're saturated with violence to the point that we become desensitized to it when we see it and defensive of anything we perceive may be a threat to our right to inflict it.

It's a combination of factors, not the least of which is the psychological crutch that "oh, because bad guys are out there and they may have guns, we must all own guns to protect ourselves!" -- Never mind that you instantaneously become far more likely to have an accident or deliberate criminal action happen with that actual gun you bought to "protect" yourself than to be the victim of homicide from the hypothetical one you use to justify the purchase.

I think all drugs should be legal, too - but I don't think everyone should run out and buy some heroin, nor do I think we need ads for them on TV. If you need a gun, or think you need a gun, you're going to get a gun anyway. Maybe if we didn't get such a boner for Jack Bauer and Call of Duty the whole "gun culture" problem wouldn't exist but whatever -- I'm a 24 fan myself, so I choose to blame media as a whole for flooding the market with it. I know, no personal responsibility, shock right? heh... but that's the thing -- I'm FOR gun ownership, just not in favor of making gun use/ownership seem like it's "cool" or whatever the children call it these days.


This.
 
2012-12-03 11:06:06 AM

BgJonson79:

Aren't we one of the richest per capita states? Like, just about on par with MA, yet they have way more issues. I wonder why that might be?


This routine you're doing. This "golly gee I sure do wonder" thing. It makes you sound like twat. People reading your words think you're a twat. You may not actually be a twat, but this is twatspeak.
 
2012-12-03 11:07:28 AM

readbot42: Anarchangel: Gun ownership? Nothing wrong with it. I have no issues with the legality of any weapons.

Glorifying gun ownership, however, is ridiculous. You can show a guy getting shot in the farking head on network TV but you can't show a bare female breast without getting fined. You can't say "fark" on a talk show, but we can have 25 cop shows, 10 war movies and a million ads for a first-person shooter video game. There's like 100 reality shows about guns, gun owners, gun range visitors, gun inventors, shooting guns, bigger guns, better guns, guns that haven't been invented yet but seem like a cool idea...

That part, I think, is the problem - not the fact that you can legally own one. Glorification of weapons is usually kinda silly IMO when in moderate amounts. We're saturated with violence to the point that we become desensitized to it when we see it and defensive of anything we perceive may be a threat to our right to inflict it.

It's a combination of factors, not the least of which is the psychological crutch that "oh, because bad guys are out there and they may have guns, we must all own guns to protect ourselves!" -- Never mind that you instantaneously become far more likely to have an accident or deliberate criminal action happen with that actual gun you bought to "protect" yourself than to be the victim of homicide from the hypothetical one you use to justify the purchase.

I think all drugs should be legal, too - but I don't think everyone should run out and buy some heroin, nor do I think we need ads for them on TV. If you need a gun, or think you need a gun, you're going to get a gun anyway. Maybe if we didn't get such a boner for Jack Bauer and Call of Duty the whole "gun culture" problem wouldn't exist but whatever -- I'm a 24 fan myself, so I choose to blame media as a whole for flooding the market with it. I know, no personal responsibility, shock right? heh... but that's the thing -- I'm FOR gun ownership, just not in favor of making gun use/owner ...


A well-thought, concise argument, kudos. I stopped watching TV for the exact reasons you mentioned. It is the same socially-backwards, bland crap on every single channel + a million ads.
 
2012-12-03 11:07:47 AM

CrappityCrap: Pysch evaluations and training is fine but outright and complete banning of certain weapon are not feasible to implement.


You don't think limits on magazine capacity are reasonable?

CrappityCrap: Don't see how drug legalization will help other than create even more drug addicts, unstable individuals and all sorts of other dregs of society. You might solve one problem but you'll be creating others.


It's not the drugs themselves that cause the violence, but the illegal trafficking of them. When was the bad time you heard of a "cigarette deal gone wrong" or "little girl accidentally gunned down in alcohol gang dispute?
 
2012-12-03 11:09:15 AM

RobSeace: Serious Black: As for cigarettes, I'd like to keep them the way they are (legal, need to be 21 to buy)

I'm pretty sure you currently only need to be 18 to buy cigs... (Which is pretty stupid, since they're worse for you than booze...)


Oops. Yeah, you're right on that one. Talk about a colossal brain fart.
 
2012-12-03 11:09:30 AM

Rapmaster2000: BgJonson79:

Aren't we one of the richest per capita states? Like, just about on par with MA, yet they have way more issues. I wonder why that might be?

This routine you're doing. This "golly gee I sure do wonder" thing. It makes you sound like twat. People reading your words think you're a twat. You may not actually be a twat, but this is twatspeak.


I'm not all that concerned about what random people all over the world think of me. You didn't answer my question, though. I'll answer it for you: socio-economic homogeneity. Nobody is particularly rich, nobody is particularly poor.
 
2012-12-03 11:10:07 AM

Rapmaster2000: BgJonson79:

Aren't we one of the richest per capita states? Like, just about on par with MA, yet they have way more issues. I wonder why that might be?

This routine you're doing. This "golly gee I sure do wonder" thing. It makes you sound like twat. People reading your words think you're a twat. You may not actually be a twat, but this is twatspeak.


Pretty sure you're the twat in this situation.
 
2012-12-03 11:10:37 AM

GoldSpider: It's not the drugs themselves that cause the violence, but the illegal trafficking of them. When was the bad last time you heard of a "cigarette deal gone wrong" or "little girl accidentally gunned down in alcohol gang dispute?


FTFM
 
2012-12-03 11:12:15 AM

Frank N Stein: Rapmaster2000: BgJonson79:

Aren't we one of the richest per capita states? Like, just about on par with MA, yet they have way more issues. I wonder why that might be?

This routine you're doing. This "golly gee I sure do wonder" thing. It makes you sound like twat. People reading your words think you're a twat. You may not actually be a twat, but this is twatspeak.

Pretty sure you're the twat in this situation.


Good one, Frank.
 
2012-12-03 11:12:46 AM

Frank N Stein: Rapmaster2000: BgJonson79:

Aren't we one of the richest per capita states? Like, just about on par with MA, yet they have way more issues. I wonder why that might be?

This routine you're doing. This "golly gee I sure do wonder" thing. It makes you sound like twat. People reading your words think you're a twat. You may not actually be a twat, but this is twatspeak.

Pretty sure you're the twat in this situation.


No need to make personal attacks against people. Hit 'em with logic and facts and well-reasoned arguments. If they ignore it, they're not worth talking to!
 
2012-12-03 11:13:25 AM

GoldSpider: You don't think limits on magazine capacity are reasonable?


Why would it be? You apparently want the limit, so it's up to you to convince us why it's needed
 
2012-12-03 11:15:14 AM

BgJonson79: Frank N Stein: Rapmaster2000: BgJonson79:

Aren't we one of the richest per capita states? Like, just about on par with MA, yet they have way more issues. I wonder why that might be?

This routine you're doing. This "golly gee I sure do wonder" thing. It makes you sound like twat. People reading your words think you're a twat. You may not actually be a twat, but this is twatspeak.

Pretty sure you're the twat in this situation.

No need to make personal attacks against people. Hit 'em with logic and facts and well-reasoned arguments. If they ignore it, they're not worth talking to!


I said you may not be a twat. I just said you sound like a twat.

Just say what you want to say. What is the point of this "golly gee I sure do wonder why" when you already had the answer. What did you want people to do? Q and A you for your opinion? Just say it, man!
 
2012-12-03 11:15:53 AM

GoldSpider: CrappityCrap: Pysch evaluations and training is fine but outright and complete banning of certain weapon are not feasible to implement.

You don't think limits on magazine capacity are reasonable?


Because it takes 3 seconds to change a magazine?
 
2012-12-03 11:16:46 AM

Rapmaster2000: BgJonson79: Frank N Stein: Rapmaster2000: BgJonson79:

Aren't we one of the richest per capita states? Like, just about on par with MA, yet they have way more issues. I wonder why that might be?

This routine you're doing. This "golly gee I sure do wonder" thing. It makes you sound like twat. People reading your words think you're a twat. You may not actually be a twat, but this is twatspeak.

Pretty sure you're the twat in this situation.

No need to make personal attacks against people. Hit 'em with logic and facts and well-reasoned arguments. If they ignore it, they're not worth talking to!

I said you may not be a twat. I just said you sound like a twat.

Just say what you want to say. What is the point of this "golly gee I sure do wonder why" when you already had the answer. What did you want people to do? Q and A you for your opinion? Just say it, man!


I'll admit it: when I discuss on fark, I tend towards that type. When I talk with people in person, I'm far more laid back and polite ;-)
 
2012-12-03 11:17:11 AM

BlousyBrown: libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.

I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.


I don't buy it. I need proof. BIE?
 
2012-12-03 11:19:49 AM

BgJonson79:
I'll admit it: when I discuss on fark, I tend towards that type. When I talk with people in person, I'm far more laid back and polite ;-)


Cool. Sounds good.
 
2012-12-03 11:20:17 AM

Father_Jack: Noon'e posted this yet? Im shocked.

[images2.dailykos.com image 450x391]


I actually like that cartoon. But I am a gun owner and agree, the occasional tragedy is indeed the price we pay for the rest of us to own what we want.

At one time I was into the statistics side of the gun argument and came across the stat, that more kids drown in their backyard pools than are killed by guns. Would it be fair to say that the occasional drowning is the price we pay over and over again for the rest of us to enjoy our pools? I don't know, but I think you could and it would be just as logically sound. Continuing any effort to stop the tiny percentage of those tragedies would needlessly infringe on the rights of others.
 
2012-12-03 11:20:18 AM

DeathCipris: RobFMJ: DeathCipris: SkunkWerks: DeathCipris: evolve to understand one another and quit killing each other over stupid shiat

You don't understand how evolution works, do you?

DeathCipris: Taking away the guns will do nothing to curb this behavior.

So, again, we should do nothing, right?

Good GOD you are dense...

Yes, I DO understand how evolution works,. What I have been saying is we NEED to head that direction to fix this problem. Will we? Probably not.

So we should waste taxpayer money and government time to take a step that does nothing? You are a moron. VA has some of the most lax gun laws in the US aside from TX. Yet, we didn't even scratch the top 10 for gun related homocides. (Photo from upthread)

[img.photobucket.com image 550x711]

Show me some reliable data that violent crime is reduced by increasing gun control.

Despite its reputation, Texas gun laws aren't really all that much to write home about. Alabama and Florida are definitely more lax. Hell, even Louisiana has open carry (although they do require state registration of NFA stuff *shakes tiny fist*).

Ah, my bad then. FL would be a better example and LA too. Does LA even require a class-3 license to own an automatic weapon?


There's no "license" per se, you pay $200 to the BATFE along with your application and get a tax stamp for each item you buy/make (suppressor, SBR, SBS, AOW, DD or machine gun). They look like this. I think a lot of people get that mixed up with the SOT-class Federal Firearms Licenses that allows you to buy/sell/manufacture NFA stuff as your business. Those are expensive and the ATF frowns upon them for personal use, plus most people don't want the record-keeping requirements and random inspections that go with them.

Some states will restrict what you can own (for example, WA legalized suppressor ownership but still does not allow SBR's, if memory serves me). Louisiana is an odd duck that allows anything but requires registration with the Louisiana State Police.

/I don't trust LSP with a dull spork, but that's got more to do with the organization than my feelings towards firearms registration
 
2012-12-03 11:23:27 AM

DeathCipris: Careful, redmid17, it is like debating with a brick wall.


From a brick wall's perspective, I rather imagine everything looks like a brick wall, yes.

Brick walls don't understand Evolution either.
 
2012-12-03 11:24:10 AM

Frank N Stein: Why would it be? You apparently want the limit, so it's up to you to convince us why it's needed


BgJonson79: Because it takes 3 seconds to change a magazine?


It's still a break in the firing during which a lot can happen. The more frequently you make a rampaging shooter change magazines, the more chances (for example) police officers have to take him out.

As far as home defense goes, if you fire six times and haven't either hit the invader or scared him off, double or triple that number probably isn't going to do the job either.
 
2012-12-03 11:24:40 AM

o5iiawah: Doesn't matter.


It matters if someone doesn't want to have a gun.
 
2012-12-03 11:27:34 AM

GoldSpider: Frank N Stein: Why would it be? You apparently want the limit, so it's up to you to convince us why it's needed

BgJonson79: Because it takes 3 seconds to change a magazine?

It's still a break in the firing during which a lot can happen. The more frequently you make a rampaging shooter change magazines, the more chances (for example) police officers have to take him out.

As far as home defense goes, if you fire six times and haven't either hit the invader or scared him off, double or triple that number probably isn't going to do the job either.


2nd amendment was not for home defense or hunting... unless by home you mean defending it from a tyranical government. Not saying we should be able to own artilery, but yes to assault weapons.
 
2012-12-03 11:28:28 AM

GoldSpider: Frank N Stein: Why would it be? You apparently want the limit, so it's up to you to convince us why it's needed

BgJonson79: Because it takes 3 seconds to change a magazine?

It's still a break in the firing during which a lot can happen. The more frequently you make a rampaging shooter change magazines, the more chances (for example) police officers have to take him out.

As far as home defense goes, if you fire six times and haven't either hit the invader or scared him off, double or triple that number probably isn't going to do the job either.


Would that just mean another three seconds in cover?
 
2012-12-03 11:29:23 AM
All the people here saying Costas was wrong to say it are Free Speech hating fascists.

You don't like your cocoon's infiltrated by ideas you disagree with. The NFL used to be a nice place of God, Country, and "safe" violence. After all the concussion talk, now this!
 
2012-12-03 11:29:52 AM

Apik0r0s: /waiting for 2Aers to throw off these oppressive Govt shackles
//still waiting
///crickets


Armed groups of civilians have opposed organized governments on four occasions since the passing of the 2nd Amendment. It hasn't always been successful, but it's usually risen to the level of functional opposition.
 
2012-12-03 11:30:24 AM
Mangina™
 
2012-12-03 11:31:15 AM

Hobodeluxe: just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.


Show me your Internet Communication license, please.
 
2012-12-03 11:31:27 AM

RobFMJ:
There's no "license" per se, you pay $200 to the BATFE along with your application and get a tax stamp for each item you buy/make (suppressor, SBR, SBS, AOW, DD or machine gun). They look like this. I think a lot of people get that mixed up with the SOT-class Federal Firearms Licenses that allows you to buy/sell/manufacture NFA stuff as your business. Those are expensive and the ATF frowns upon them for personal use, plus most people don't want the record-keeping requirements and random inspections that go with them.

Some states will restrict what you can own (for example, WA legalized suppressor ownership but still does not allow SBR's, if memory serves me). Louisiana is an odd duck that allows anything but requires registration with the Louisiana Stat ...


That is a lot less BS than in VA. You have to pay for the aforementioned tax stamp, being that it is a Federal thing, and then you have to get a "Class-3 Firearms License." The application process involves the tax stamp, proving the gun is in your will, submission to random inspections, full background investigation, registration with VA State Police, and the signature of the police chief in your county/locality stating he/she is aware you have it and you are OK to have it. All of this is paid for at your expense. I think it is close to like 500 dollars just to get the damn licensing to own a class-3 firearm, just like you said anything that falls into these categories (suppressor, SBR, SBS, AOW, DD or machine gun) is considered a class-3 in VA. Each one of the categories of a class-3 is a little different...like a suppressor. You have to have a reason why you need one...same goes for SBS and SBR. I can't remember if a SBR/SBS requires police chief signature, but I KNOW it does for an automatic weapon. There is a shiatload of red tape that is for sure.
 
2012-12-03 11:31:59 AM
Frank N Stein: " Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL?"

I'm just cynical enough to believe that Costas spiel got the green light solely because the NFL would *much* rather see this enter the public consciousness as a shiat-storm about guns than have it remembered as another high profile piece of evidence linking Traumatic Brain Injury to American Football.

I'm not quite *cynical* enough to suggest the bit was conceived of by the NFL and floated to Costas, nor that they scripted it and he was told to do it outright.
But, certainly, whoever had to clear that piece had to know that 1. this would cause a shiat-storm 2. the NRA is *much* louder than those who talk about brain injury.
 
2012-12-03 11:34:52 AM

Snort: All the people here saying Costas was wrong to say it are Free Speech hating fascists.

You don't like your cocoon's infiltrated by ideas you disagree with. The NFL used to be a nice place of God, Country, and "safe" violence. After all the concussion talk, now this!


So, using our free speech rights to rebut Costas makes us fascists? You're free to say whatever you want, but we're also free to disagree with you. It goes both ways.
 
2012-12-03 11:39:45 AM

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.

Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.


forums.radioreference.com
 
2012-12-03 11:41:59 AM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: But, yea, you're right. Swimming pools and Alaskan crab are the true scourges in America and it's perfectly normal and sane that you would bring them up in this context and not indicative at all of the sort of warped reality that I'm specifically calling out.


Acceptable losses, right?

BoobySnacks: Such as? If you are referring to background checks for criminal history or psychiatric issues, I'm with you. Otherwise, "...shall not be infringed" speaks plainly enough.


You mean like we already have right now with the BATFE 4473 and NICS?

Private_Citizen: He is truely a classy person, and it's obvious he really doesn't want to see anyone get hurt.


Classy? How about waiting until the bodies are actually buried before you slam your soapbox down on the graves and start politicizing?
 
2012-12-03 11:42:25 AM

Father_Jack: dont buy something ghey. Get some old milsurp. Stay away from that „tacticool" AR15 and AK47 polymer bs. Get an old mauser or an old enfield from ww2.


Cheaper'n Dirt had a bit saying one of the Four Essential Shootin' Arns is the Russhkin Mosin-Nagant. They seem ancient and ready to explode while being held close to my face. Are they still solid and stable and no-exploding even at their advanced age?
 
2012-12-03 11:45:01 AM

boomm: I was listening to him present that quote on air, and was blown away by the conclusion. I really wonder how it would be recieved if he emphasized the idea that sports promote violence in our violent culture.

"I truely believe that if he was not a professional football player, both of them would still be alive today."


And given the symptoms of brain damage he'd been exhibiting in the past couple of weeks, that's likely closer to the truth.
 
2012-12-03 11:46:03 AM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: Father_Jack: dont buy something ghey. Get some old milsurp. Stay away from that „tacticool" AR15 and AK47 polymer bs. Get an old mauser or an old enfield from ww2.

Cheaper'n Dirt had a bit saying one of the Four Essential Shootin' Arns is the Russhkin Mosin-Nagant. They seem ancient and ready to explode while being held close to my face. Are they still solid and stable and no-exploding even at their advanced age?


I've bought and fired two extensively. They were in pretty good shape for being 80 and 73 years old respectively. If it looked bad, I wouldn't shoot it or buy it, but that kind of goes for any gun.
 
2012-12-03 11:46:08 AM
SkunkWerks


OnlyM3: Quite easily defended

If you own a gun, your position is defensible.

I was never quite sure. Which logical fallacy is what you're doing here, using a phony argument rather than addressing facts. Not ad hominem, not Reductio ad Hitlerum ... never can quite remember.
 
2012-12-03 11:52:11 AM

redmid17: AngryJailhouseFistfark: Father_Jack: dont buy something ghey. Get some old milsurp. Stay away from that „tacticool" AR15 and AK47 polymer bs. Get an old mauser or an old enfield from ww2.

Cheaper'n Dirt had a bit saying one of the Four Essential Shootin' Arns is the Russhkin Mosin-Nagant. They seem ancient and ready to explode while being held close to my face. Are they still solid and stable and no-exploding even at their advanced age?

I've bought and fired two extensively. They were in pretty good shape for being 80 and 73 years old respectively. If it looked bad, I wouldn't shoot it or buy it, but that kind of goes for any gun.


More likely his upbringing had more to do with it.
 
2012-12-03 11:53:06 AM

OnlyM3: I was never quite sure.


Now you are.

You're welcome.
 
2012-12-03 11:57:30 AM

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You forgot to answer this.

I don't know. All I know is that a multi-billion dollar international corporation doesn't let some pipsqueak sports journalist go on a soap box without their approval.

Now, answer my questions.


Oh, look who has no idea how television works!
 
Bf+
2012-12-03 12:01:57 PM

Hobodeluxe: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

So when is that time and place that it's appropriate to talk about such sacred subjects? People are killed with guns every day in the US.



Well, not on those days, obviously!
 
2012-12-03 12:02:42 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Snort: All the people here saying Costas was wrong to say it are Free Speech hating fascists.

You don't like your cocoon's infiltrated by ideas you disagree with. The NFL used to be a nice place of God, Country, and "safe" violence. After all the concussion talk, now this!

So, using our free speech rights to rebut Costas makes us fascists? You're free to say whatever you want, but we're also free to disagree with you. It goes both ways.


You want him to not speak out at all. You would be the suit that tells him not to speak. Don't talk about issues, its not right.
 
2012-12-03 12:08:07 PM

Snort: Ow! That was my feelings!: Snort: All the people here saying Costas was wrong to say it are Free Speech hating fascists.

You don't like your cocoon's infiltrated by ideas you disagree with. The NFL used to be a nice place of God, Country, and "safe" violence. After all the concussion talk, now this!

So, using our free speech rights to rebut Costas makes us fascists? You're free to say whatever you want, but we're also free to disagree with you. It goes both ways.

You want him to not speak out at all. You would be the suit that tells him not to speak. Don't talk about issues, its not right.


No, that is not what I want at all. I don't give two shiats what an insufferable ass like Costas thinks or says. Most anti-gunners actually help the pro-rights side by blabbering on about a topic they obviously no nothing about. So, preach on brother.
 
2012-12-03 12:13:09 PM

carnifex2005: people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


1/10
 
2012-12-03 12:15:56 PM
sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk
 
2012-12-03 12:19:33 PM

StoPPeRmobile: [sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk image 600x700]


sharkrobot.com
 
2012-12-03 12:27:57 PM
Heili Skrimsli,

My only critique of you is the way you hold your pistol. There is no control with "cup and saucer" grip. Move your left hand higher up on the bore axis and drive your thumb forward which will cause the outside of your left hand to exert more pressure on the bottom of the grip. This will reduce muzzle flip and increase the speed and accuracy of follow up shots.
 
2012-12-03 12:28:53 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Most anti-gunners actually help the pro-rights side by blabbering on about a topic they obviously no nothing about. So, preach on brother.


It isn't their fault. Obviously their keyboards are responsible for their stupid posts.
 
2012-12-03 12:30:20 PM

BoobySnacks: Heili Skrimsli,

My only critique of you is the way you hold your pistol. There is no control with "cup and saucer" grip. Move your left hand higher up on the bore axis and drive your thumb forward which will cause the outside of your left hand to exert more pressure on the bottom of the grip. This will reduce muzzle flip and increase the speed and accuracy of follow up shots.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-03 12:32:35 PM

DeathCipris: RobFMJ:
There's no "license" per se, you pay $200 to the BATFE along with your application and get a tax stamp for each item you buy/make (suppressor, SBR, SBS, AOW, DD or machine gun). They look like this. I think a lot of people get that mixed up with the SOT-class Federal Firearms Licenses that allows you to buy/sell/manufacture NFA stuff as your business. Those are expensive and the ATF frowns upon them for personal use, plus most people don't want the record-keeping requirements and random inspections that go with them.

Some states will restrict what you can own (for example, WA legalized suppressor ownership but still does not allow SBR's, if memory serves me). Louisiana is an odd duck that allows anything but requires registration with the Louisiana Stat ...

That is a lot less BS than in VA. You have to pay for the aforementioned tax stamp, being that it is a Federal thing, and then you have to get a "Class-3 Firearms License." The application process involves the tax stamp, proving the gun is in your will, submission to random inspections, full background investigation, registration with VA State Police, and the signature of the police chief in your county/locality stating he/she is aware you have it and you are OK to have it. All of this is paid for at your expense. I think it is close to like 500 dollars just to get the damn licensing to own a class-3 firearm, just like you said anything that falls into these categories (suppressor, SBR, SBS, AOW, DD or machine gun) is considered a class-3 in VA. Each one of the categories of a class-3 is a little different...like a suppressor. You have to have a reason why you need one...same goes for SBS and SBR. I can't remember if a SBR/SBS requires police chief signature, but I KNOW it does for an automatic weapon. There is a shiatload of red tape that is for sure.


Unless something's changed very recently, there's no state-specific license to purchase or own any NFA items in Virginia, just a mandatory (and exclusive to machine guns) registration with the state police.

Other than that, the process is the same there as it is in the majority of the rest of the country. The CLEO signoff/fingerprints/photos apply to all NFA items, unless you're buying for a living trust or LLC. A tax stamp is not expressed consent to random searches, although keeping copies of your stamped form 1s/4s with your things as proof of legal ownership is never a bad idea. The firearms are just like other items in your possession with regards to your will, only that the receiving party after your death will have to complete the transfer process all over again (also does not apply if you go the LLC/Trust route and the receiving party is included in the Corp/Trust).

The license you describe sounds most like a Special Occupational Tax FFL, which is inadvisable and unnecessary for private ownership and use.
 
2012-12-03 12:37:41 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Most anti-gunners actually help the pro-rights side by blabbering on about a topic they obviously no nothing about.


ct.fra.bz
 
2012-12-03 12:53:02 PM

Apik0r0s: It is an acceptable cost. As any gun enthusiast will tell you: we need to keep and bear arms in case Govt tries to oppress us. Well, they tell you that when they are not talking about how oppressive Govt is.


And also to repel people who try to oppress us, such as the KKK and other "milita groups" in the South, during Reconstruction; people intent on attacking someone for being gay/female/pro-union. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a human right that long predates the U.S. Constitution. While it certainly includes revolution against oppressive government, that is not its only purpose. The idea of a citizenry that is capable and equipped to defend itself is the gist of it.
 
2012-12-03 12:55:04 PM

SkunkWerks: [emo.jpg]


Wait a minute. That guy's Emo? I thought that was Hipster. Dammit I just don't know anymore. I'm getting old. If only there were some trigger enacted contraption with metal slugs and gunpowder that could help me end my life before I get older.
 
2012-12-03 12:59:39 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


What you define as "smart" and "reasonable" may be "useless" and "ineffective" to everyone else. I seem to recall the AWB of 94' promoting such language as your own. We all know how well that worked.
 
2012-12-03 01:05:57 PM
Just throwing some gasoline on the fire.

i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-03 01:08:21 PM
Some stats on guns and domestic violence, sources on second page. Link, .pdf
 
2012-12-03 01:14:11 PM

mediablitz: : I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?


You know I'm from Montana too, and while you can say the Montana is 7th in gun related violent crimes, I'd also like to point out that Montana is 41st in the occurrence of violent crimes.

So yeah, most of the crimes that happened involved guns, but a lot less crimes happen in general, should what's your point?

 
2012-12-03 01:22:17 PM

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


Mine saved my life. No ITG BS. Things worked out, nobody got hurt, and the other guy is getting help, and he has a supportive family, who I have spoken with, and things are going to be kosher it appears.
 
2012-12-03 01:25:30 PM

hundreddollarman: Just throwing some gasoline on the fire.

[i47.tinypic.com image 498x499]


Why bother with speedlimits and outlawing murder?
 
2012-12-03 01:27:56 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Snort: Ow! That was my feelings!: Snort: All the people here saying Costas was wrong to say it are Free Speech hating fascists.

You don't like your cocoon's infiltrated by ideas you disagree with. The NFL used to be a nice place of God, Country, and "safe" violence. After all the concussion talk, now this!

So, using our free speech rights to rebut Costas makes us fascists? You're free to say whatever you want, but we're also free to disagree with you. It goes both ways.

You want him to not speak out at all. You would be the suit that tells him not to speak. Don't talk about issues, its not right.

No, that is not what I want at all. I don't give two shiats what an insufferable ass like Costas thinks or says. Most anti-gunners actually help the pro-rights side by blabbering on about a topic they obviously no nothing about. So, preach on brother.


I never mentioned gun rights. Its your knee jerk restraint of speech I find amusing. Gunning down one right for another, as it were.
 
2012-12-03 01:27:58 PM

Serious Black: TerminalEchoes: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.

Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.

It's not a fallacy, it's a fact. You don't need a gun to kill someone. Hey, but thanks for playing.

You're right. I could kill somebody using an Ethernet cord. Or a lawn chair. Or an umbrella. Or insert whatever thing you want to here. The difference is very few of those things were designed with the sole intent of killing another living thing.


But the common factor in all of those hypothetical deaths is you. Try blaming the mentality for once, rather than the instrumentality. It doesn't matter that Belcher used a gun, or if he used his fists, a frying pan, a steak-knife, of a frickin' Tickle Me Elmo. What matters is that he was willing to kill her.

The topic for discussion should be domestic violence, not gun control.
 
2012-12-03 01:34:22 PM

Snort: Ow! That was my feelings!: Snort: Ow! That was my feelings!: Snort: All the people here saying Costas was wrong to say it are Free Speech hating fascists.

You don't like your cocoon's infiltrated by ideas you disagree with. The NFL used to be a nice place of God, Country, and "safe" violence. After all the concussion talk, now this!

So, using our free speech rights to rebut Costas makes us fascists? You're free to say whatever you want, but we're also free to disagree with you. It goes both ways.

You want him to not speak out at all. You would be the suit that tells him not to speak. Don't talk about issues, its not right.

No, that is not what I want at all. I don't give two shiats what an insufferable ass like Costas thinks or says. Most anti-gunners actually help the pro-rights side by blabbering on about a topic they obviously no nothing about. So, preach on brother.

I never mentioned gun rights. Its your knee jerk restraint of speech I find amusing. Gunning down one right for another, as it were.


Huh? Please point out where I supported "knee jerk restraint of speech". He can say whatever he wants. People disagreeing with him is not the same as trying to 'restrain' his speech.

You have the right to say almost anything you want in the US, BUT people have the right to use their speech to disagree. That is not a 'restraint' on free speech.
 
2012-12-03 01:37:36 PM

BoobySnacks: Heili Skrimsli,

My only critique of you is the way you hold your pistol. There is no control with "cup and saucer" grip. Move your left hand higher up on the bore axis and drive your thumb forward which will cause the outside of your left hand to exert more pressure on the bottom of the grip. This will reduce muzzle flip and increase the speed and accuracy of follow up shots.


It's a horrible grip in that picture, and it's not how I actually grip when shooting.

In order to get that picture and do it safely, I had to make sure that nobody was actually standing in front of the pistol, so I was using my webcam. My left elbow is hitting the keyboard so that I could actually capture the image. When I'm actually shooting, my grip is basically exactly what you describe.
 
2012-12-03 01:41:55 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Snort: Ow! That was my feelings!: Snort: Ow! That was my feelings!: Snort: All the people here saying Costas was wrong to say it are Free Speech hating fascists.

You don't like your cocoon's infiltrated by ideas you disagree with. The NFL used to be a nice place of God, Country, and "safe" violence. After all the concussion talk, now this!

So, using our free speech rights to rebut Costas makes us fascists? You're free to say whatever you want, but we're also free to disagree with you. It goes both ways.

You want him to not speak out at all. You would be the suit that tells him not to speak. Don't talk about issues, its not right.

No, that is not what I want at all. I don't give two shiats what an insufferable ass like Costas thinks or says. Most anti-gunners actually help the pro-rights side by blabbering on about a topic they obviously no nothing about. So, preach on brother.

I never mentioned gun rights. Its your knee jerk restraint of speech I find amusing. Gunning down one right for another, as it were.

Huh? Please point out where I supported "knee jerk restraint of speech". He can say whatever he wants. People disagreeing with him is not the same as trying to 'restrain' his speech.

You have the right to say almost anything you want in the US, BUT people have the right to use their speech to disagree. That is not a 'restraint' on free speech.


And those above that did not want him to say it, wished he had not said it, etc. are at heart, gunning down one right so as not to have their paradigms challenged on their own TV.

Its not about an act of restraining speech, its about what is at the heart of some poster's thinking. Certainly you can understand that odd dichotomy of stances.

Personally, more speech and more guns makes life more interesting.
 
2012-12-03 01:47:41 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: Father_Jack: dont buy something ghey. Get some old milsurp. Stay away from that „tacticool" AR15 and AK47 polymer bs. Get an old mauser or an old enfield from ww2.

Cheaper'n Dirt had a bit saying one of the Four Essential Shootin' Arns is the Russhkin Mosin-Nagant. They seem ancient and ready to explode while being held close to my face. Are they still solid and stable and no-exploding even at their advanced age?


I'll tell you after next weekend. I just ordered 4 of them.

/2 hex, 2 round
 
2012-12-03 01:49:50 PM

Skyd1v: AngryJailhouseFistfark: Father_Jack: dont buy something ghey. Get some old milsurp. Stay away from that „tacticool" AR15 and AK47 polymer bs. Get an old mauser or an old enfield from ww2.

Cheaper'n Dirt had a bit saying one of the Four Essential Shootin' Arns is the Russhkin Mosin-Nagant. They seem ancient and ready to explode while being held close to my face. Are they still solid and stable and no-exploding even at their advanced age?

I'll tell you after next weekend. I just ordered 4 of them.

/2 hex, 2 round


Well you'll tell us if they don't explode. Telling us if they did explode would be an impressive feat of fark loyalty.
 
2012-12-03 01:50:04 PM
The Derp Brigade popped up on my Facebook feed with this. I had no idea until now who Bob Costas was (being that I'm not particularly interested in handegg, nor am I particularly interested in watching people run into each other for exorbitant amounts of money) but apparently he's a "far left liberal" according to a guy I knew in high school:

http://www.facebook.com/trey.todd.796/posts/606651678749

I hope so. I'm too pissed off at stupid Bob Costas and his rant! Why does the liberal media continue to push their nonsense? If you don't believe in guns, then don't. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Someone has to pull the trigger. Just because there are a few people out there that can't use a gun the way it was intended, it means the rest of us have to suffer for others' stupidity. Liberals....I really can't stand them! If the guy didn't have a gun, he wouldn't have killed that poor, innocent girlfriend? Seriously? If he was crazy enough to do that in front of others, do you think he was right in the head? NO! He would have found another way to do it.
 
2012-12-03 01:59:31 PM

aircraftkiller: The Derp Brigade popped up on my Facebook feed with this. I had no idea until now who Bob Costas was (being that I'm not particularly interested in handegg, nor am I particularly interested in watching people run into each other for exorbitant amounts of money) but apparently he's a "far left liberal" according to a guy I knew in high school:

http://www.facebook.com/trey.todd.796/posts/606651678749

I hope so. I'm too pissed off at stupid Bob Costas and his rant! Why does the liberal media continue to push their nonsense? If you don't believe in guns, then don't. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Someone has to pull the trigger. Just because there are a few people out there that can't use a gun the way it was intended, it means the rest of us have to suffer for others' stupidity. Liberals....I really can't stand them! If the guy didn't have a gun, he wouldn't have killed that poor, innocent girlfriend? Seriously? If he was crazy enough to do that in front of others, do you think he was right in the head? NO! He would have found another way to do it.


This isn't reddit. No one here cares about your facebook friend.
 
2012-12-03 02:03:51 PM
Frank N Stein

This isn't reddit. No one here I don't cares about your facebook friend.

Fixed that for you.
 
2012-12-03 02:06:22 PM
Seems to me that society should focus in on an acceptable death rate and make changes to laws/policies/education as needed to hover around that death rate. Not just for guns but for anything that can cause death. For example, if restricting some freedoms has a net benefit in overall death rates, that restriction would be lifted if advances in the education system results in a further lowering of the death rate (thus staying within the limit and expanding personal freedoms). With some luck, maybe this process could hone in on a method by which we can have zero gun restrictions and a death rate well below acceptable.

Obviously it wouldn't be feasible to simply ban anything that increases the risk of death. And restricting freedoms is not something to be taken lightly, even if you personally don't see the benefit in having that freedom. There needs to be room in the process not only to restrict freedoms, but expand them as well. What would be bad is a system that only reduces personal freedoms and never solves problems at the root. I would hope that no one wants patchwork laws that move us away from a free society.
 
2012-12-03 02:08:40 PM

aircraftkiller: Frank N Stein

This isn't reddit. No one here I don't cares about your facebook friend.

Fixed that for you.


i45.tinypic.com

You mad bro?
 
2012-12-03 02:23:31 PM
Not really, bro. I can't imagine a reality in which losing a 12 year old acquaintance will be troublesome, but knock yourself out if it makes you feel better
 
2012-12-03 02:24:32 PM

aircraftkiller: Not really, bro. I can't imagine a reality in which losing a 12 year old acquaintance will be troublesome, but knock yourself out if it makes you feel better


The real question is why do you hang out with twelve year olds?
 
2012-12-03 02:26:52 PM

redmid17: Skyd1v: AngryJailhouseFistfark: Father_Jack: dont buy something ghey. Get some old milsurp. Stay away from that „tacticool" AR15 and AK47 polymer bs. Get an old mauser or an old enfield from ww2.

Cheaper'n Dirt had a bit saying one of the Four Essential Shootin' Arns is the Russhkin Mosin-Nagant. They seem ancient and ready to explode while being held close to my face. Are they still solid and stable and no-exploding even at their advanced age?

I'll tell you after next weekend. I just ordered 4 of them.

/2 hex, 2 round

Well you'll tell us if they don't explode. Telling us if they did explode would be an impressive feat of fark loyalty.


*Snerk* That...is a very good point. ( wanders off to find bench vise and ball of string )
 
2012-12-03 02:27:35 PM

umad: aircraftkiller: Not really, bro. I can't imagine a reality in which losing a 12 year old acquaintance will be troublesome, but knock yourself out if it makes you feel better

The real question is why do you hang out with twelve year olds?


Too old.
 
2012-12-03 02:39:34 PM

GoldSpider: CrappityCrap: Gun Control laws won't do jack shiat. Hell, look at that crap in Wyoming. No guns involved and yet 3 people still died. If someone wants you dead, they're damn well going to try and make that happen with or without a gun! And there isn't a single law that will prevent that. Quit being dumbasses.

See, I have a problem with the "They'll just use something else to kill you" argument. Yes, if someone is really determined to see someone dead, there are many tools and means at their disposal to make that happen.

However a gun is ideal for facilitating a killing of passion/impulse. It's easy, requires no physical ability, and it's equally effective at a distance. When was the last time you read about a drive-by knifing?


Here's a better question: What percentage of gun crime is committed by those who have legally purchased and are legally allowed to own a firearm? Sure, the high-profile cases is "He was such a normal person and then went crazy" but consider the overwhelming amount of gun crime is committed by those with existing criminal history. No law against guns will stop career criminals from using them, but a law against guns would certainly encourage them to commit more crimes from knowing their law-abiding victims are unarmed.
 
2012-12-03 02:53:09 PM

armoredbulldozer: carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

Mine saved my life. No ITG BS. Things worked out, nobody got hurt, and the other guy is getting help, and he has a supportive family, who I have spoken with, and things are going to be kosher it appears.


So, help me out here. You shot a Jew? Or you shot a Jew's car? I am confuse.
 
2012-12-03 02:58:28 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


How many of those deaths are caused by someone deliberately killing someone with their car?
 
2012-12-03 03:03:36 PM

RobFMJ: Hobodeluxe: GoldSpider: Enough with the "Huuur you need a license to drive, but not to own a gun!" stupidity.

The day driving becomes an enumerated constitutional right like the right to bear arms is the day you can start making that comparison without sounding like you slept through 10th grade civics.

just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.

Well, you have the right to vote regardless of you ability (or lack thereof) to understand how the constitution works or why its in place, so I'd let that one go, there, champ


So do you own land? Because originally you had to be a land owner of a certain amount of land before you were allowed to vote in the United States. The constitution does not grant the RIGHT to vote, it only covers the MECHANICS of how said votes are counted.
That's right. You have more right to a gun than you do to vote under the United States Constitution.
 
2012-12-03 03:08:35 PM

Serious Black: Mock26: But that is neither here nor there. Disregard the Kleck study completely and take the Department of Justice number of 80,000 (108,000 according to the link I provided) and the number of murders committed in this country is significantly lower than the number of times a gun is used to prevent a crime in this country.

Are murders the only kind of violent act that could theoretically be prevented by a gun?


According the the FBI numbers I posted earlier firearms accounted for 67.5% of all murders.
According to the National Institute of Justice, "477,040 persons were victims of a crime committed with a firearm."
 
2012-12-03 03:15:22 PM

Snort: All the people here saying Costas was wrong to say it are Free Speech hating fascists.

You don't like your cocoon's infiltrated by ideas you disagree with. The NFL used to be a nice place of God, Country, and "safe" violence. After all the concussion talk, now this!


Nope. Not even close. The people here saying Costas was wrong are exercising their First Right Amendment just like Bob Costas did. Additionally, most of them seem to be saying that they disapproved of the venue. And it was an inappropriate time for him to do so. He was hired to talk about the game, not to spout his gun beliefs. And the people who tuned in to watch the game did so expecting to watch the game and have the half time show be about sports.
 
2012-12-03 03:15:45 PM

HaywoodJablonski: Are you more scared of black people or Hispanics?



I live in Washington State, so if I ever have to use a firearm for protection, chances are it will be a white trash tweaker.

Next question.
 
2012-12-03 03:18:57 PM

Snort: You want him to not speak out at all. You would be the suit that tells him not to speak. Don't talk about issues, its not right.


When he is hired to talk about sports, then, "Yes, I do not want him to speak out on guns" when he is at work. Outside of that venue let him speak all he wants about anything in the world.
 
2012-12-03 03:20:22 PM

Hobodeluxe: GoldSpider: Enough with the "Huuur you need a license to drive, but not to own a gun!" stupidity.

The day driving becomes an enumerated constitutional right like the right to bear arms is the day you can start making that comparison without sounding like you slept through 10th grade civics.

just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.


And the Supreme Court has ruled that the regulation of the ownership of firearms does not violate the 2nd Amendment.
 
2012-12-03 03:29:13 PM

RobFMJ: DeathCipris:

That is a lot less BS than in VA. You have to pay for the aforementioned tax stamp, being that it is a Federal thing, and then you have to get a "Class-3 Firearms License." The application process involves the tax stamp, proving the gun is in your will, submission to random inspections, full background investigation, registration with VA State Police, and the signature of the police chief in your county/locality stating he/she is aware you have it and you are OK to have it. All of this is paid for at your expense. I think it is close to like 500 dollars just to get the damn licensing to own a class-3 firearm, just like you said anything that falls into these categories (suppressor, SBR, SBS, AOW, DD or machine gun) is considered a class-3 in VA. Each one of the categories of a class-3 is a little different...like a suppressor. You have to have a reason why you need one...same goes for SBS and SBR. I can't remember if a SBR/SBS requires police chief signature, but I KNOW it does for an automatic weapon. There is a shiatload of red tape that is for sure.

Unless something's changed very recently, there's no state-specific license to purchase or own any NFA items in Virginia, just a mandatory (and exclusive to machine guns) registration with the state police.

Other than that, the process is the same there as it is in the majority of the rest of the country. The CLEO signoff/fingerprints/photos apply to all NFA items, unless you're buying for a living trust or LLC. A tax stamp is not expressed consent to random searches, although keeping copies of your stamped form 1s/4s with your things as proof of legal ownership is never a bad idea. The firearms are just like other items in your possession with regards to your will, only that the receiving party after your death will have to complete the transfer process all over again (also does not apply if you go the LLC/Trust route and the receiving party is included in the Corp/Trust).

The license you describe sounds most like a Special Occupational Tax FFL, which is inadvisable and unnecessary for private ownership and use.


Ah-ha! I found out what is going on and why the process is so different. Apparently this is some local law BS, not State law. The Class-3 permit is for a SBR. You are right. All of that stuff applies to NFA and tax stamp is not automatic consent to a search, but in the local permit paperwork for a class-3, at least when it was signed, it stated that a LEO can demand to see the rifle at anytime to ensure it remains in compliance with State and Federal laws. The SBR was also required to be put in a Will and a trustee designated as part of the permit process. You are right on completing the process all over again too. In order to get the firearm, in case of demise, the trustee would have to re-apply and re-pay for all tax stamps and paperwork all over again.
 
2012-12-03 03:37:18 PM
He's in the 'cross hairs' for offering a stupid opinion about something he knows little about.

As for the guy and his girlfriend still being alive if only he didn't have a gun: let's talk to OJ Simpson about that.
 
2012-12-03 03:43:06 PM
Can the gun kooks get Bob Costas fired, or do they not own the country any more? We will see. Anyone is more likely to use a deadly weapon in anger than in self-defense. The gun kooks try to deny that, but it is simple human nature.
 
2012-12-03 04:01:12 PM

umad: aircraftkiller: Not really, bro. I can't imagine a reality in which losing a 12 year old acquaintance will be troublesome, but knock yourself out if it makes you feel better

The real question is why do you hang out with twelve year olds?


i think we just found Elmos Fark handle
 
2012-12-03 04:02:25 PM
I heard some clown on Fox news say today "if guns didnt exist these two people would be alive," with a straight face. That's what scares me about the most outspoken gun control advocates, they are the ones that would be dictating the terms and they are farkng idiots.
 
2012-12-03 04:06:39 PM

macdaddy357: We will see. Anyone is more likely to use a deadly weapon in anger than in self-defense.


That sounds loco.
 
2012-12-03 04:11:38 PM

This text is now purple: Hobodeluxe: just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.

Show me your Internet Communication license, please.


Didn't know they passed PIPA.
 
2012-12-03 04:16:35 PM

macdaddy357: Anyone is more likely to use a deadly weapon in anger than in self-defense.


This is pretty much the definition of "projection"
 
2012-12-03 04:17:18 PM
I bought my first gun because I'm allowed to. I bought my other 4 because libs don't want me to have them
 
2012-12-03 04:22:05 PM

Mock26: Hobodeluxe: GoldSpider: Enough with the "Huuur you need a license to drive, but not to own a gun!" stupidity.

The day driving becomes an enumerated constitutional right like the right to bear arms is the day you can start making that comparison without sounding like you slept through 10th grade civics.

just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.

And the Supreme Court has ruled that the regulation of the ownership of firearms does not violate the 2nd Amendment.


There's a fine line between regulation and restriction. For example, "You must take a handgun safety course" is regulation. "YOu must take a handgun safety course from one of these instructors, of which there are 20 in the state, and each charge $250 or more for the course" is restriction.
 
2012-12-03 04:22:42 PM

Gleeman: This text is now purple: Hobodeluxe: just because you have a right in the constitution to own a gun doesn't mean you shouldn't have to prove your ability to own and operate one responsibly.

Show me your Internet Communication license, please.

Didn't know they passed PIPA.


She has a nice ass
 
2012-12-03 04:30:02 PM

Gdalescrboz: I bought my first gun because I'm allowed to. I bought my other 4 because libs don't want me to have them


They are asexual.
 
2012-12-03 05:11:54 PM
In my opinion this specific tragedy is not one that would likely have been averted had tighter gun regulations been in place. Domestic disputes escalate into murder-suicides with or without firearms. Crimes of passion are just as readily committed with knives or poisons or bare hands.

This country desperately needs a dialogue about its relationship to the gun, but this is not an appropriate opportunity to introduce the subject. Viz the panicked howling from both sides.
 
2012-12-03 05:13:47 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


IKR

We should only allow successful millionaires with nice looking families buy guns*

*as long as they aren't large black men.


Bob Costas: a liberal racist unaware.
 
2012-12-03 05:39:08 PM
So let me see if I got this right.

White men shouldn't own guns because they'll just flip out and shoot everyone.

Black and Hispanic men shouldn't guns because they're all thugs/criminals/gangbangers.

Asian men shouldn't own guns because they'd probably shoot as well as they can drive.

I think that about covers it. Not sure about the gheys.
 
2012-12-03 06:03:41 PM
cdn.pjmedia.com
 
2012-12-03 06:22:33 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: [cdn.pjmedia.com image 320x480]


Dammit, I was about to post that...
 
2012-12-03 06:52:09 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: Father_Jack: dont buy something ghey. Get some old milsurp. Stay away from that „tacticool" AR15 and AK47 polymer bs. Get an old mauser or an old enfield from ww2.

Cheaper'n Dirt had a bit saying one of the Four Essential Shootin' Arns is the Russhkin Mosin-Nagant. They seem ancient and ready to explode while being held close to my face. Are they still solid and stable and no-exploding even at their advanced age?


They actually are, and they're fun to shoot as well. The lloks you get at the range after the first thunderclap are pretty humorous. I've got an all-matching 1942 as a placeholder in my gun collection until I can find an all-matching one from before 1917.
 
2012-12-03 07:45:25 PM

Frank N Stein: NBC pushes their agenda throughout their program list, from Monday Night Football to Law and Order. Costas is just a cog in this.


mimg.ugo.com
 
2012-12-03 08:28:43 PM
everytime Americans get all up in arms over their right to have guns and shoot shiat you look like farking nutters to the rest of the entire world.
 
2012-12-03 08:32:45 PM
LOL at Bob Costas/OJ Simpson picture. Do people expect Bob to resign at NBC so he can help his pal OJ find the real killer? Yeah, call me crazy, but it's been too long. I doubt they'll ever find the real killer.
 
2012-12-03 08:40:14 PM
NEWSFLASH: Pussified males support handgun bans.
 
2012-12-03 08:44:11 PM

The_Sponge: NEWSFLASH: Pussified males support handgun bans.


potato/10
 
2012-12-03 08:50:24 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.


Pretty much.

But I always wonder why those so fervently behind the Second Amendment are so quick to limit the First.
 
2012-12-03 09:01:52 PM

SkunkWerks: BoobySnacks: Heili Skrimsli,

My only critique of you is the way you hold your pistol. There is no control with "cup and saucer" grip. Move your left hand higher up on the bore axis and drive your thumb forward which will cause the outside of your left hand to exert more pressure on the bottom of the grip. This will reduce muzzle flip and increase the speed and accuracy of follow up shots.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]


I stand corrected.
 
2012-12-03 09:34:25 PM

edmo: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

Pretty much.

But I always wonder why those so fervently behind the Second Amendment are so quick to limit the First.


Did anyone in this thread suggest that the government do something about his comments? No? Or did we use our free speech rights by calling him an airhead?

Think about it and get back me.
 
2012-12-03 09:35:15 PM

404 page not found: The_Sponge: NEWSFLASH: Pussified males support handgun bans.

potato/10


Sorry bro, but I am right.
 
2012-12-03 10:25:09 PM

The_Sponge: 404 page not found: The_Sponge: NEWSFLASH: Pussified males support handgun bans.

potato/10

Sorry bro, but I am right.


OK, fine. You convinced me.
 
2012-12-03 10:34:35 PM

404 page not found: The_Sponge: 404 page not found: The_Sponge: NEWSFLASH: Pussified males support handgun bans.

potato/10

Sorry bro, but I am right.

OK, fine. You convinced me.


F yeah.
 
2012-12-03 11:39:34 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


The same could be said of abortion, yet there are people who when common sense restrictions are discussed, blow a gasket and start pouting off about their Constitution right to privacy and freedom of choice.

No, Costas is probably a few months from being out of the sportscasting business (let's face it, Jim McKay he is not, and essentially he fills the same role now for NBC, trotting out and trying to look like the senior sports anchor and an authority figure, which is silly in the era of ESPN), at least on Sunday Night football. He knows it, so he decided to get in a cheap shot against handguns, when in reality there was nothing particularly special about the tool used in the murder/suicide tragedy in KC that couldn't have been duplicated by hundreds of others tools, including simple CO in a garage.
 
2012-12-03 11:55:10 PM
I watched 30 seconds of that mindless derping by Costas before I bailed. Now that Keith Olbermann is essentially retired, Costas is easily the most irritating pompous arrogant fark on Tv. And with Chris Berman still on the airwaves, that's high praise.
 
2012-12-04 01:51:20 AM
I was watching "The Walking Dead," but, wasn't he quoting (with permission) Jason Whitlock of Fox Sports?
 
2012-12-04 03:20:07 AM
Yes, whenever I need firearm safety tips, I always ask people involved with sports that regularly cause traumatic brain injuries.
 
2012-12-04 06:15:36 AM
looking back on what Costas/Whitlock said (haven't read Whitlock's article, don't care to) it kinda comes across as CYA.

First it was all like "This gun culture we have is so warped and in its own reality..."

and then (it seemed like this when watching live, anyway) Costas is sitting there, mid-sentence, thinking "Wait... Oh shiat, I forgot, I've spent my entire career working for giant media conglomerates that help desensitize Americans to violence, ramp up fear and paranoia, and even encourage violence upon other human beings... that probably all has a farkton to do with why there's a gun culture problem I'm having to talk about at halftime of a goddamn football game in the first place... fark, what do I do now?"

so he's like "Damn it, if only handguns weren't so easily accessible!"

oh, also...

1. I have a toy lightsaber. Since buying it, violent crime in my area has not risen. I feel much safer packing a toy lightsaber. You can replace toy lightsaber with gun and it's the same argument. This was brought up earlier by someone else.

2. A gun is a tool designed to expedite the process of killing a given target. It is not the same as something that kills people but is not specifically intended to expedite the process of killing people. It is foolish to compare a gun to a method of transportation. Transportation is not combat, and the vast majority of cars on the road are not manufactured with the purpose of "kill more things faster." I know it sounds like I'm repeating myself - that's what it sounds like when this argument is used seventeen thousand times per thread. This was also brought up earlier by someone else.

3. There is no such thing as a safe gun. Yes, it is possible to put a gun somewhere it will not be reached by most people, and that is a safe way of ~storing~ a gun. There are plenty of devices and mechanisms that, when activated, prevent the trigger of a gun from being pulled. But a gun, in and of itself, is not safe. This isn't necessarily something that was mentioned in this thread, but sometimes I see people say "well my gun's safe" - I know what you're trying to say, but please stop saying it like that.

4. Being against the glorification of gun ownership is not the same as being in favor of banning guns of any kind. I know you're able to leap to tall conclusions in a single bound, but a culture/moral issue is not necessarily the same as a legal/constitutional one. I know, you're just used to always equating gun discussions to second amendment arguments. It's inevitable.

I have no problem with the second amendment as it's interpreted now or legality of gun ownership. I don't own one myself. My family's all over the place on that issue. Personally, I also think all drugs should be legalized and regulated just like guns, but that doesn't mean I think everyone should run out and try acid. I mean, it was always farking awesome every time I did, but everyone's different, you know?
 
2012-12-04 06:36:31 AM

edmo: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

Pretty much.

But I always wonder why those so fervently behind the Second Amendment are so quick to limit the First.


I don't recall a situation where 2nd amendment supporters said there should be regulation of the first, or even that there should be discussion on how best to control it. Laws controlling his speech are between him and the FCC.

He chose his words and timing poorly, and he's going to pay a social consequence for that, but no ones stopping him from saying what he felt.

/actually, by blogging about what he said, 2nd amendment supporters inadvertently spread his message to a broader audience.
/an audience that may not agree, and one that has its own opinions, but his original statement was delivered uninterrupted
 
2012-12-04 09:53:19 AM
Sanctimonious drivel from Costas is nothing new.
 
2012-12-04 09:53:23 AM

edmo: But I always wonder why those so fervently behind the Second Amendment are so quick to limit the First.


Now that you mention it, we should definitely impose a few reasonable restrictions on the first. I think we can all agree that religion is no longer needed like it was when the constitution was written. They couldn't foresee the internet either, so we should require a license to use it and start censoring things a bit. Dangerous speech got a U.S. Representative shot in the head last year. It is about damn time we do something about it. One life is too many to sacrifice for some selfish "freedom".
 
2012-12-04 10:13:55 AM

hdhale: AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.

The same could be said of abortion, yet there are people who when common sense restrictions are discussed, blow a gasket and start pouting off about their Constitution right to privacy and freedom of choice.

No, Costas is probably a few months from being out of the sportscasting business (let's face it, Jim McKay he is not, and essentially he fills the same role now for NBC, trotting out and trying to look like the senior sports anchor and an authority figure, which is silly in the era of ESPN), at least on Sunday Night football. He knows it, so he decided to get in a cheap shot against handguns, when in reality there was nothing particularly special about the tool used in the murder/suicide tragedy in KC that couldn't have been duplicated by hundreds of others tools, including simple CO in a garage.


Wishful thinking. He scores well with the female demographic as well as traditional demographics. One gun commentary will not sink his ship.
 
2012-12-04 10:14:54 AM
500
 
2012-12-04 11:33:19 AM
A lot of people keep saying First Amendment without knowing what it really means. The first amendment just says "Congress shall make no law". That just says that the Federal Government cannot limit your freedom of speech, religion, or assembly.

Nothing more. An individual cannot violate your First Amendment rights.

The Second Amendment however says "Shall Not Be Infringed" which is much stronger language.

Which one do you think the writers of the Constitution thought was more important?
 
2012-12-04 12:15:24 PM

xterraadam: A lot of people keep saying First Amendment without knowing what it really means. The first amendment just says "Congress shall make no law". That just says that the Federal Government cannot limit your freedom of speech, religion, or assembly.

Nothing more. An individual cannot violate your First Amendment rights.

The Second Amendment however says "Shall Not Be Infringed" which is much stronger language.

Which one do you think the writers of the Constitution thought was more important?


Both
 
2012-12-04 02:24:32 PM

Snort: 500


Worst sequel ever.
 
2012-12-04 10:59:37 PM
"Here's where I stand: I do not want to see the Second Amendment repealed. ... People should be allowed to own guns for their own protection. Obviously, those who are hunters. ... Access to guns is too easy in some cases. I don't see any reason a citizen should be able to arm himself in some states in ways only police or military should - to have a virtual militia [by] mail order or gun shows. Why do you need a semi-automatic weapon? What possible use is there? ... Whitlock wrote about a gun culture. That's what I was focusing on."

Looks like we can throw Costas in with all the other ignorant gun grabbers that haven't so much as a farking clue what their talking about. Another farking idiot who thinks semi-automatic means machine gun. Somebody ask this moran what a barrel shroud is.

For the record Bob YOU CANNOT MAIL ORDER GUNS, purchasing a gun from an ffl at a gun show STILL REQUIRES A NICS BACKGROUND CHECK, and SEMI-AUTOMATIC DOES NOT MEAN MACHINE GUN! Semi-automatic means that for every pull of the trigger one bullet is fired. You know like just about every gun made since the industrial revolution.

If you're going to pretend like you're taking some sort of big brave stand (which this asshole didn't do by quoting someone else to give himself wriggle room) in front of a giant national audience at least do Americans a favor and read up on the subject first instead of spouting a bunch of ignorant bullshiat cliches like the uninformed jack-off you are.
 
2012-12-05 05:01:18 AM

XplodedSynapses: i do not want to sound like a smartass, but guns don't shoot all by themselves.


Hence the hold Switzerland falling apart. They don't have bullets.
 
2012-12-05 05:03:58 AM

give me doughnuts: But the common factor in all of those hypothetical deaths is you. Try blaming the mentality for once,


I bet you think this is a rational, reasonable argument.

"Why don't more people kill with an ethernet cable than a gun?!?!?!"

You really buy into that, don't you?

LMMFAO
 
2012-12-06 01:51:35 AM

mediablitz: XplodedSynapses: i do not want to sound like a smartass, but guns don't shoot all by themselves.

Hence the hold Switzerland falling apart. They don't have bullets.


Huh?
 
2012-12-06 11:21:25 AM

mediablitz: XplodedSynapses: i do not want to sound like a smartass, but guns don't shoot all by themselves.

Hence the hold Switzerland falling apart. They don't have bullets.


They also don't have a 3rd world country half controlled by violent drug cartels and a retarded approach to drug laws.
 
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