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(HyperVocal)   Bob Costas in the crosshairs of gun owners   ( hypervocal.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Bob Costas, Jason Whitlock, NBC Studios, Nicole Brown Simpson, Brit Hume, Kansas City Chiefs, Andy Levy  
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15934 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Dec 2012 at 2:22 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



508 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-12-03 02:26:28 AM  
There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.
 
2012-12-03 02:26:31 AM  
Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.
 
2012-12-03 02:27:16 AM  
you are watching NBC it's like a long running Elephants turd.
 
2012-12-03 02:28:33 AM  
this should be good

/fark you Costas
 
2012-12-03 02:30:18 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are? And when they decide to take them away completely? Do you say "No biggie, I didn't need a gun anyway."
 
2012-12-03 02:32:00 AM  
NBC pushes their agenda throughout their program list, from Monday Night Football to Law and Order. Costas is just a cog in this.
 
2012-12-03 02:32:33 AM  

SumDumGit: And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are?


The Supreme Court does, and even Scalia thinks there can and should be restrictions. Just not "absolute personal ownership" bans, like what was overturned in DC.
 
2012-12-03 02:32:39 AM  
Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.
 
2012-12-03 02:34:36 AM  
Strange...never heard Costas get all that upset before about a guy killing his girlfriend, then himself...

OH, RIGHT...these were actually important people because NFL.
 
2012-12-03 02:35:38 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.
 
2012-12-03 02:36:15 AM  

Frank N Stein: NBC pushes their agenda throughout their program list, from Monday Night Football to Law and Order. Costas is just a cog in this.


The General Electric agenda? Or the Comcast agenda.
 
2012-12-03 02:39:50 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Actually Whitlock is a Fox Sports journalist from Kansas City.
 
2012-12-03 02:41:47 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.
 
2012-12-03 02:43:30 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Look, I am not getting into this argument with you. It is like arguing how many angels can fit on a pin head?
 
2012-12-03 02:43:34 AM  
I wondered how long this thread would take to turn up.
 
2012-12-03 02:44:15 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Lots of people die due to our car culture, and our athletics culture, hell our food culture.

The problems aren't the tools we use to hurt ourselves, merely that we have a systematic breakdown of society that prevents us from recognizing the difference between WHAT we are doing vs WHY we are doing it.

This young man committed violence on not only himself. but another human being. That is what needs to be addressed. Not the fact that he used a lump of metal to do so.

Was the announcer wrong? I would say he had a national pulpit to make his statement from. I don't agree with his words, but he's got stones to say it so bluntly on a national stage. I just wish that he would have gotten to the root of the people instead of beating the same old tired drum.
 
2012-12-03 02:44:59 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.


... One of a very, very small number of NFL starting players, just yeserday, shot his child's mother dead in cold blood, then drove to the practice facility and home of his employer, an NFL team, and shot himself in front of a front office man and the team's head coach.

So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.
 
2012-12-03 02:45:33 AM  

carnifex2005: people don't need handguns


Says who? You?

carnifex2005: every other Western nation in the world already knows.


Citation needed.
 
2012-12-03 02:46:18 AM  
Who the fark cares about what random people on twitter say or care about?
 
2012-12-03 02:47:44 AM  
I saw that, live, and the first thing I thought was, "Oh man, he's gonna be in trouble now..."

Pray 4 Mojo: Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Can we? That would be awesome and save me a fortune, every year. Unfortunately, there's no real public transportation where I live, so I have to keep mine.
 
2012-12-03 02:49:58 AM  

puffy999: So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.


Alright then. Why did he blame the gun? Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself. Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL? Why not the media's, including NBC's, role in perpetuating and glorifying the "gun culture"? Why take the simpleton's route of blaming the gun for the action of the man?

It's been brought up. Now defend it.
 
2012-12-03 02:50:10 AM  

Frank N Stein: carnifex2005: people don't need handguns

Says who? You?

carnifex2005: every other Western nation in the world already knows.

Citation needed.


you are a puppet: Frank N Stein: NBC pushes their agenda throughout their program list, from Monday Night Football to Law and Order. Costas is just a cog in this.

The General Electric agenda? Or the Comcast agenda.


You forgot to answer this.
 
2012-12-03 02:50:10 AM  

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


You mean like Mexico?

Or like Switzerland?
 
2012-12-03 02:50:30 AM  
Some people have a big problem with having a political agenda pushed down their throats during a football game. The problem isn't with the misguided beliefs but with the stage on which they were espoused.
 
2012-12-03 02:50:48 AM  

ElwoodCuse: SumDumGit: And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are?

The Supreme Court does, and even Scalia thinks there can and should be restrictions. Just not "absolute personal ownership" bans, like what was overturned in DC.


B-b-b-ut this is America! The constitution says every family needs at least one fully automatic machine pistol, just for huntin'!

/Or so I've heard.
//But switchblades and brass knuckles are illegal in most states, because, you know, they're like dangerous!
 
2012-12-03 02:52:21 AM  
It's no different than a politician going on tv and saying abortion is wrong. Every other show on tv made some sort of comment about it, he was told to say something and he spoke his mind. You don't like what he has to say? Who cares, you're watching grown men run into each other while fighting over a ball. Get over it.
 
2012-12-03 02:52:43 AM  

you are a puppet: You forgot to answer this.


I don't know. All I know is that a multi-billion dollar international corporation doesn't let some pipsqueak sports journalist go on a soap box without their approval.

Now, answer my questions.
 
2012-12-03 02:52:50 AM  
Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.

Until then tell me if I'm out 5 grand to some bad men from Vegas.

Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.

/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?
 
2012-12-03 02:53:34 AM  
It took less than 10 minutes for the right wing rage machine to go into full blown freakout mode.

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


I laugh at your naivete...
 
2012-12-03 02:53:51 AM  

naptapper: Some people have a big problem with having a political agenda pushed down their throats during a football game. The problem isn't with the misguided beliefs but with the stage on which they were espoused.


Thank you.
 
2012-12-03 02:54:21 AM  
Gun ownership? Nothing wrong with it. I have no issues with the legality of any weapons.

Glorifying gun ownership, however, is ridiculous. You can show a guy getting shot in the farking head on network TV but you can't show a bare female breast without getting fined. You can't say "fark" on a talk show, but we can have 25 cop shows, 10 war movies and a million ads for a first-person shooter video game. There's like 100 reality shows about guns, gun owners, gun range visitors, gun inventors, shooting guns, bigger guns, better guns, guns that haven't been invented yet but seem like a cool idea...

That part, I think, is the problem - not the fact that you can legally own one. Glorification of weapons is usually kinda silly IMO when in moderate amounts. We're saturated with violence to the point that we become desensitized to it when we see it and defensive of anything we perceive may be a threat to our right to inflict it.

It's a combination of factors, not the least of which is the psychological crutch that "oh, because bad guys are out there and they may have guns, we must all own guns to protect ourselves!" -- Never mind that you instantaneously become far more likely to have an accident or deliberate criminal action happen with that actual gun you bought to "protect" yourself than to be the victim of homicide from the hypothetical one you use to justify the purchase.

I think all drugs should be legal, too - but I don't think everyone should run out and buy some heroin, nor do I think we need ads for them on TV. If you need a gun, or think you need a gun, you're going to get a gun anyway. Maybe if we didn't get such a boner for Jack Bauer and Call of Duty the whole "gun culture" problem wouldn't exist but whatever -- I'm a 24 fan myself, so I choose to blame media as a whole for flooding the market with it. I know, no personal responsibility, shock right? heh... but that's the thing -- I'm FOR gun ownership, just not in favor of making gun use/ownership seem like it's "cool" or whatever the children call it these days.
 
2012-12-03 02:54:48 AM  

Poo_Fight: Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.
Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.

/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?



lol. Costas has gained a lot of respect from me. Anything that angers fratboys is good for the world.
 
2012-12-03 02:55:27 AM  

Frank N Stein: puffy999: So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.

Alright then. Why did he blame the gun? Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself. Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL? Why not the media's, including NBC's, role in perpetuating and glorifying the "gun culture"? Why take the simpleton's route of blaming the gun for the action of the man?

It's been brought up. Now defend it.


I can see the spittle flying out of your mouth.
 
2012-12-03 02:57:12 AM  

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You forgot to answer this.

I don't know. All I know is that a multi-billion dollar international corporation doesn't let some pipsqueak sports journalist go on a soap box without their approval.

Now, answer my questions.


You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.
 
2012-12-03 02:58:00 AM  

naptapper: Some people have a big problem with having a political agenda pushed down their throats during a football game. The problem isn't with the misguided beliefs but with the stage on which they were espoused.


It wasn't being pushed down their throats during the game; saying that implies, to me, that Michaels and Collinsworth got on a soapbox and were quoting Whitlock while neglecting their play-by-play and color-commentary duties. Halftime is different. I think making a social commentary during halftime of one of the most widely watched TV programs and thereby sparking debate is something to be applauded. The other pre- and postgame shows (Fox, CBS) are basically mindless, worthless drivel that does nothing but promote the NFL and its players. I also think that everyone should calm the fark down and stop being so defensive, regardless of which side of the argument you're on.
 
2012-12-03 02:58:13 AM  

Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.


Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.
 
2012-12-03 02:58:45 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Poo_Fight: Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.
Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.

/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?


lol. Costas has gained a lot of respect from me. Anything that angers fratboys is good for the world.


Frat boys? I'm 49. You ignorant prick.
 
2012-12-03 03:00:40 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Poo_Fight: Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.
Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.

/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?


lol. Costas has gained a lot of respect from me. Anything that angers fratboys is good for the world.


*Clicks on profile*

Jesus Christ, YOU'RE a FRATBOY!
 
2012-12-03 03:00:55 AM  
What is wrong with you people that listen to Costas in the first place? I realize not everyone owns a Tivo, but damn, leave the room or mute him or something.
 
2012-12-03 03:02:42 AM  
Ok, being a Canuckistani, who owns no guns, may I make the following suggestion. Granted that I'm sure that it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.

Require people to take a gun safety course when they first decide to purchase a weapon, and pass, a la a licensing exam. As part of said course, have a portion (say an hour of a weekend long course in my view) where people are told how to recognize situations where their judgment can be clouded and how to get out of or defuse those situations.

From my cultural viewpoint, you guys take guns to an extreme. In terms of gun ownership and use you guys are waaaaayyyy ahead of most of the western world. Sadly crimes where guns are invioved are much more common. Access can correlate almost directly with use, just like places with lots of cars have lots of accidents.

You guys have fun with trying to come up with an answer on that issue. I'm glad that here in Canada, it's much more rare that I hear about gun violence.
 
2012-12-03 03:03:10 AM  

you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.


Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.
 
2012-12-03 03:04:07 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


If only cars had some other use besides killing people...
 
2012-12-03 03:04:16 AM  

carnifex2005: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Actually Whitlock is a Fox Sports journalist from Kansas City.


I'm pretty sure that's what he meant by a local journalist.

This happened in Kansas City.
 
2012-12-03 03:04:58 AM  

thegod082: naptapper: Some people have a big problem with having a political agenda pushed down their throats during a football game. The problem isn't with the misguided beliefs but with the stage on which they were espoused.

It wasn't being pushed down their throats during the game; saying that implies, to me, that Michaels and Collinsworth got on a soapbox and were quoting Whitlock while neglecting their play-by-play and color-commentary duties. Halftime is different. I think making a social commentary during halftime of one of the most widely watched TV programs and thereby sparking debate is something to be applauded. The other pre- and postgame shows (Fox, CBS) are basically mindless, worthless drivel that does nothing but promote the NFL and its players. I also think that everyone should calm the fark down and stop being so defensive, regardless of which side of the argument you're on.


Oh, OK - so it's fine with you if anyone spouts off anything as long as it's not actually during the game. Hmm. So if someone who is deeply religious, say Tim Tebow for example, got on a halftime show and told people how they were going to Hell, that would be OK with you?

It's all about the time and place. I don't want to be preached to by anyone when I'm watching a farking pastime.
 
2012-12-03 03:04:58 AM  
Guns are for pussy-asses bed-wetters acared of their own shadows, nevermind dark people
 
2012-12-03 03:05:48 AM  

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.

Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.


You are really something.
 
2012-12-03 03:06:18 AM  

Poo_Fight: /Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?


Look! The same red herring!

Yep. Someone died from something other than gun violence, so that means there is no reason at all to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Same old tired fallacy. You managed to combine it with ad homs and a whole lot of angry projection.

Congrats.
 
2012-12-03 03:06:32 AM  

mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.


I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder
 
2012-12-03 03:07:02 AM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Ok, being a Canuckistani, who owns no guns, may I make the following suggestion. Granted that I'm sure that it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.

Require people to take a gun safety course when they first decide to purchase a weapon, and pass, a la a licensing exam. As part of said course, have a portion (say an hour of a weekend long course in my view) where people are told how to recognize situations where their judgment can be clouded and how to get out of or defuse those situations.

From my cultural viewpoint, you guys take guns to an extreme. In terms of gun ownership and use you guys are waaaaayyyy ahead of most of the western world. Sadly crimes where guns are invioved are much more common. Access can correlate almost directly with use, just like places with lots of cars have lots of accidents.

You guys have fun with trying to come up with an answer on that issue. I'm glad that here in Canada, it's much more rare that I hear about gun violence.


Gun ownership in Canada is similar to that of the US.
 
2012-12-03 03:07:34 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Actually, lots of people die needlessly due to our let old people continue driving until they run someone over and kill them culture...

so... let's get rid of old people.

Get RID of them.

images1.pinporn.comView Full Size
 

/gif unrelated
 
2012-12-03 03:08:04 AM  
i guess if it was going to be a violent death for her, a gun was better. i know this sounds crass, but i can't see how not having a gun would have prevented this tragedy.
He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own. There are so many other ways to do that.
i feel horrible for the families of both the deceased. They get to experience first hand, the calamity that is murder/suicide.

/Not a gun owner.
//Not a believer in 'no-one-should-have-guns', either.
///i have to believe she died faster than from knife wounds. Or poison.
//What he did was shocking.
/And very sad.
 
2012-12-03 03:08:11 AM  

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


DC is similar. And NYC. Generally, the more liberal a city = the more violent the crime statistics.
 
2012-12-03 03:08:16 AM  

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


Are you more scared of black people or Hispanics?
 
2012-12-03 03:08:23 AM  

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


When did I mention handgun bans?

And why are you so over the top angry that anyone even WANTS to discuss the problem of rampant gun violence in the United States?
 
2012-12-03 03:08:31 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


No one has mentioned our zombie culture...
I'm sure tens of people die every year...WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THE ZOMBIES???
 
2012-12-03 03:08:47 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: Guns are for pussy-asses bed-wetters acared of their own shadows, nevermind dark people


Says the guy that lives in place that where an ID is required to purchase a butter knife.
 
2012-12-03 03:09:59 AM  

Frank N Stein: I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder



I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is
 
2012-12-03 03:10:04 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: Are you more scared of black people or Hispanics?


Ok, so you're a troll. Congrats.
 
2012-12-03 03:10:12 AM  

Poo_Fight: God-is-a-Taco: Poo_Fight: Hey Blob Cutlas, When I want your opinion on weighty matters, I'll TELL you what they are.
Either way, go fark yourself you pompous puffed up talking head.

/Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?


lol. Costas has gained a lot of respect from me. Anything that angers fratboys is good for the world.

Frat boys? I'm 49. You ignorant prick.


Well, I suppose I was too hopeful. You only have the maturity and composure of a frat boy.
21 years older me and you act like you're 21 years younger.
Take a deep breath and realize that the large Africans will be chasing after the ball again really soon in the future, there's nothing to fear.
 
2012-12-03 03:12:33 AM  

Nemo's Brother: Gun ownership in Canada is similar to that of the US.


*Spits out water* Are you serious? Maybe, maybe in the hunting community or in rural settings (I come from a line of farmers, so no this isn't a city vs country thing).

Of the people I know there are maybe 1 or 2 people that own a handgun (which they have to store at a range to use). And another... 10-15% that are hunters or farmers that have a couple of rifles/shotguns around.

When you consider how many people own handguns for defence in the states (not even getting into those who carry all the time), it's not even close. There are way more guns per capita south of the 49th parallel!
 
2012-12-03 03:13:58 AM  

Frank N Stein: HaywoodJablonski: Are you more scared of black people or Hispanics?

Ok, so you're a troll. Congrats.


Answer the question.

Alternatively, please convince me why you need a handgun
 
2012-12-03 03:14:36 AM  

naptapper: thegod082: naptapper: Oh, OK - so it's fine with you if anyone spouts off anything as long as it's not actually during the game. Hmm. So if someone who is deeply religious, say Tim Tebow for example, got on a halftime show and told people how they were going to Hell, that would be OK with you?

It's all about the time and place. I don't want to be preached to by anyone when I'm watching a farking pastime.


Addressing your first point, didn't Tebow appear in an anti-abortion commercial that aired during the Super Bowl, which is a much bigger deal than a midseason Sunday Night Football game? And no, although I don't agree with his views, I managed not to lose my mind over it.

Second, and I believe it's very possible that you are a bright, informed person, I think there are many Americans who may not be as socially aware as you are. After 9 consecutive hours of football-watching, I think it's fine that Costas has five minutes to talk to a large number of Americans about real American issues that transcend, "Bill Belichick: Evil Guy Because He's Mean in Press Conferences and Taped Football Players Practicing" or "Why Isn't Tebow Starting? Jets Suck lol."
 
2012-12-03 03:14:49 AM  

mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is


By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?
 
2012-12-03 03:15:27 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Regardless of your position on gun control, this is an idiotic analogy. I hope you can figure out why.
 
2012-12-03 03:19:09 AM  
"Gun culture" is derived largely from the video games and movies that advertise during football and pay Costas's salary. Also some of the shows on his network. Culture comes from media. But I doubt we'll hear much bed wetting about restricting the first amendment.
 
2012-12-03 03:19:22 AM  

mediablitz: Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?


Switzerland?
 
2012-12-03 03:19:35 AM  
Gun huh?

Hadn't thought about that... better write it down.
cardboardconnection.comView Full Size
 
2012-12-03 03:19:38 AM  

XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.


You don't know much about this story, then.
 
2012-12-03 03:19:59 AM  

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.

Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.


You never asked me that, and I never claimed that. If you've noticed there is a username that appears at the beginning of posts; only the posts that correspond to my username are the ones written by me. Also there's no shadowy corporation behind my posts, and my posts don't necessarily reflect the opinions of any other posters. Let me know if you're still not following.
 
2012-12-03 03:20:41 AM  
I'm planning on going out and buying myself some SWAT-grade armor, a Stinger missile launcher, and a bunch of Uzis with radioactive bullets when I get home from work. That seems to be the best way to protect myself at this point with everyone going gonzo for guns lately.
 
2012-12-03 03:21:22 AM  

you are a puppet: Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.

Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.

You never asked me that, and I never claimed that. If you've noticed there is a username that appears at the beginning of posts; only the posts that correspond to my username are the ones written by me. Also there's no shadowy corporation behind my posts, and my posts don't necessarily reflect the opinions of any other posters. Let me know if you're still not following.


Oh wow. I didn't even notice that the person I quoted wasn't you. Sorry about that.
 
2012-12-03 03:22:08 AM  

Serious Black: radioactive bullets


Enjoy your cancer.
 
2012-12-03 03:22:13 AM  

Blame Hofmann: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Regardless of your position on gun control, this is an idiotic analogy. I hope you can figure out why.


Yes I can.

/That was the point.
//A dopey analogy for a dopey assertion.
 
2012-12-03 03:22:23 AM  
I was listening to him present that quote on air, and was blown away by the conclusion. I really wonder how it would be recieved if he emphasized the idea that sports promote violence in our violent culture.

"I truely believe that if he was not a professional football player, both of them would still be alive today."
 
2012-12-03 03:24:52 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Blame Hofmann: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Regardless of your position on gun control, this is an idiotic analogy. I hope you can figure out why.

Yes I can.

/That was the point.
//A dopey analogy for a dopey assertion.


Nope, you didn't figure it out.
 
2012-12-03 03:26:34 AM  

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


Evidence like that, as well as evidence of areas with relatively high rates of gun ownership and low rates of gun violence show that a lot (or most) gun violence in the US is ultimately a product of people living in poor socioeconomic conditions, and that it's simplistic to think that gun bans or high rates of gun ownership, in themselves, will make an area far less or more dangerous.

BUT, preventing unstable or dangerous people from obtaining handguns cannot be unreasonable, whatever sort of culture they come from. So there has to be some amount of gun ownership restriction, although I wouldn't know what that amount is.
 
2012-12-03 03:26:40 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access would not have prevented this tragedy from happening. Belcher was an American success story, right up until the time he murdered his girlfriend.

Costas was way out of line with that act.
 
2012-12-03 03:26:45 AM  

mediablitz: Poo_Fight: /Costas, the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson was unarmed certainly helped her survive the attack from a kitchen knife, didn't it?

Look! The same red herring!

Yep. Someone died from something other than gun violence, so that means there is no reason at all to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Same old tired fallacy. You managed to combine it with ad homs and a whole lot of angry projection.

Congrats.


What fallacy is there in the argument that that a woman who is armed, trained, and mentally prepared is better able to defend herself against a murderer or rapist than a woman who is unarmed?
This is an entirely valid argument in favor of legal ownership of handguns, of the idea that women should be encouraged to be prepared to defend themselves, and that concealed carry permits should be reasonably available to those who desire them in all states of our nation.

Not only that, but you are the one throwing out the red herring, since that is literally all your post consists of. You are not arguing anything and are instead distracting everyone from the core issue with a red herring.
 
2012-12-03 03:27:02 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Lots of people needlessly die due to our car culture.
Lots of people needlessly die due to our smoking culture.
Lots of people needlessly die due to our fast food culture.
Lots of people needlessly die due to our drinking culture.
etc.
 
2012-12-03 03:28:07 AM  

Blame Hofmann: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder

Evidence like that, as well as evidence of areas with relatively high rates of gun ownership and low rates of gun violence show that a lot (or most) gun violence in the US is ultimately a product of people living in poor socioeconomic conditions, and that it's simplistic to think that gun bans or high rates of gun ownership, in themselves, will make an area far less or more dangerous.

BUT, preventing unstable or dangerous people from obtaining handguns cannot be unreasonable, whatever sort of culture they come from. So there has to be some amount of gun ownership restriction, although I wouldn't know what that amount is.


I agree. The system we have now, in which people with mental or psychological disorders are prevented from legally owning a firearm, would work much better if we had a mental health system worth a damn in this country.
 
2012-12-03 03:28:32 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.


The time and place to discuss the reality of a possible epidemic of firearms enabled violence must be when and where nobody is looking.
 
2012-12-03 03:29:23 AM  

Triumph: "Gun culture" is derived largely from the video games and movies that advertise during football and pay Costas's salary. Also some of the shows on his network. Culture comes from media. But I doubt we'll hear much bed wetting about restricting the first amendment.


i am afraid 'Gun Culture' is a misnomer.
We live in dire times and guns aren't the only way to die.
Do we derisively attack each other debating whether guns are the culprits of our social anxieties? Or do we address that there are problems in society that far outweigh whether a person owns a gun or not?
i know many people who own guns. They're pretty sound individuals i don't have an issue being around.
i have a hard time believing it's guns that make people kill others. i am fairly sure it's the inappropriate ideas in the minds of those who would kill another that causes murder (self murder also).

/Not a philosopher
//Just an observer
 
2012-12-03 03:29:31 AM  

Serious Black: I'm planning on going out and buying myself some SWAT-grade armor, a Stinger missile launcher, and a bunch of Uzis with radioactive bullets when I get home from work. That seems to be the best way to protect myself at this point with everyone going gonzo for guns lately.


Pussy. I'm getting a nuke. MAD, FTW!
 
2012-12-03 03:30:05 AM  

libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.


i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?
 
2012-12-03 03:30:38 AM  
If I were truly sure I was in the right when I defended gun culture, unlimited gun rights, etc., I wouldn't go yelping like a scalded dog every time someone suggests we might want to enact a law or two to dial that culture back a notch.
Instead, I would quietly say "Fark you, enact what you want, I'M the one with the guns."

Those who squawl like 5-year-olds deprived of a toy are telling me that deep down inside, they know their position is indefensible. The sad thing is, they're convinced someone is about to actually do away with the entire 2nd Amendment. Shallow-minded extremism, that is. No wonder they don't want a gun control debate; such a conversation would require nuanced thought.

By the way, I'm fine with a gun or two around the home, office, whatever, for personal defense. I think that's what the 2nd Amendment endorses. There are bad guys out there. (I'd have one myself, but I don't like loud noises.) (Or death.) Unfortunately, there's no law that could have prevented what happened to the Chiefs player. That was a mental thing.
 
2012-12-03 03:30:58 AM  

Frank N Stein: Serious Black: radioactive bullets

Enjoy your cancer.


I was unaware that just having depleted uranium ammunition in my house could give me cancer. I figured the risk would be more to the person whom I shot with them.
 
2012-12-03 03:31:24 AM  

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?
 
2012-12-03 03:32:08 AM  
tell me again why we are talking about what a sports caster think about gun control? oh that's right. it's because he's on TV.
 
2012-12-03 03:32:18 AM  

Frank N Stein: you are a puppet: You didn't ask me any questions. And whatever your questions are, you aren't entitled to any answers until you can better explain what NBC's agenda is and who is behind it.

Their agenda is an anti-gun one, apparently. I don't know who's behind it, but I'm willing to bet the speech was vetted and approved by the company he works for.

And yes, I did ask you for citation or rationale to your claim that every other western nation knows that people do not need handguns.


Wow. You say that like it's a BAD thing.

I thought corporations were people too, and had "human" rights and everything??
 
2012-12-03 03:32:23 AM  

Rent Party: AverageAmericanGuy:
Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access would not have prevented this tragedy from happening. Belcher was an American success story, right up until the time he murdered his girlfriend.


I've talked to some people in the know and they seem confident Farter will realize the dream that Belcher failed to reach.
 
2012-12-03 03:32:36 AM  

XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?


She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.
 
2012-12-03 03:33:26 AM  
 
2012-12-03 03:34:51 AM  

Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?


You can murder someone with alcohol?
 
2012-12-03 03:36:54 AM  

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?


They do have the highest per capita rate of suicide, and the majority of those (also a nation leading percentage) are by firearm.
 
2012-12-03 03:36:57 AM  

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


Fast food, too, apparently.
 
2012-12-03 03:37:11 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


How much are you paying a month in gun insurance and where did you take your gun test.

Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.

This is the same group that used Charlton Heston, when he was suffering from dementia and forgot that he once loudly stood for registration and sensible gun laws, as a spokesman.

So go back to your cellar and polish your Taurus and Kel-Tec collection and STFU.
 
2012-12-03 03:37:44 AM  

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


My ex wife drove me to drink. So yes.
 
2012-12-03 03:37:53 AM  
All guns should be banned except for fully automatic rifles with armor piercing rounds.

But really, regardless of your gun politics, this was a bad example to use. A dude killing his girlfriend and then himself didn't even require a gun. It was just faster, I guess. A better example to use would be school shootings, or really any time a killer takes out a large number of people.
 
2012-12-03 03:37:54 AM  

logruszed: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

The time and place to discuss the reality of a possible epidemic of firearms enabled violence must be when and where nobody is looking.


The time and place is when there can be a discussion...

Not when one person is giving me his unsolicited and unquestioned opinion during an entertainment/sporting event... and taking advantage of a personal family tragedy to ply his unsolicited opinion.
 
2012-12-03 03:38:33 AM  

Metalithic: ElwoodCuse: SumDumGit: And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are?

The Supreme Court does, and even Scalia thinks there can and should be restrictions. Just not "absolute personal ownership" bans, like what was overturned in DC.

B-b-b-ut this is America! The constitution says every family needs at least one fully automatic machine pistol, just for huntin'!

/Or so I've heard.
//But switchblades and brass knuckles are illegal in most states, because, you know, they're like dangerous!



Keep banning stuff that kills people, don't fix the stupidity that caused it in the first place
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.comView Full Size

sfgate.comView Full Size
 
2012-12-03 03:38:46 AM  

libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?

She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.


Even sadder then? i didn't find that detail in the articles i read. All i read was he killed her 3 months after the birth of their daughter and then went to the stadium and spoke to staff/coaches and then shot himself in their presence.

Thank you for your input- i always look for your comments.

/i feel even worse now.
//i don't favorite anyone, but i respect you and a few others.
 
2012-12-03 03:39:18 AM  
Human beings are very inventive when it comes maiming, torturing and massacring one another. I don't really think taking away guns is going to change that. As a species we are so destructive and violent against one another, I actually feel worse when I hear a cop has shot a person's pet then I would if he/she just shot the person. I guess I'm not a big fan of people (that includes myself). There, I said it.
 
2012-12-03 03:40:08 AM  

Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?


No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?
 
2012-12-03 03:40:28 AM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Ok, being a Canuckistani, who owns no guns, may I make the following suggestion. Granted that I'm sure that it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.

Require people to take a gun safety course when they first decide to purchase a weapon, and pass, a la a licensing exam. As part of said course, have a portion (say an hour of a weekend long course in my view) where people are told how to recognize situations where their judgment can be clouded and how to get out of or defuse those situations.

From my cultural viewpoint, you guys take guns to an extreme. In terms of gun ownership and use you guys are waaaaayyyy ahead of most of the western world. Sadly crimes where guns are invioved are much more common. Access can correlate almost directly with use, just like places with lots of cars have lots of accidents.

You guys have fun with trying to come up with an answer on that issue. I'm glad that here in Canada, it's much more rare that I hear about gun violence.


Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.
 
2012-12-03 03:41:45 AM  

fusillade762: Serious Black: I'm planning on going out and buying myself some SWAT-grade armor, a Stinger missile launcher, and a bunch of Uzis with radioactive bullets when I get home from work. That seems to be the best way to protect myself at this point with everyone going gonzo for guns lately.

Pussy. I'm getting a nuke. MAD, FTW!


I was planning on working my way up to some nukes. Step two would be a ring of Patriot missile launchers around my house, and step three would be a new version of Tsar Bomba.
 
2012-12-03 03:41:59 AM  
Link

Something to consider.
 
2012-12-03 03:42:02 AM  

rugby-n-beers: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

They do have the highest per capita rate of suicide, and the majority of those (also a nation leading percentage) are by firearm.


I posted the statistics. He can continue to pretend they don't exist. I get the impression he is all about willfully ignoring anything that doesn't fit his narrative/red herring argument.
 
2012-12-03 03:42:23 AM  

Frank N Stein: puffy999: So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.

Alright then. Why did he blame the gun? Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself. Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL? Why not the media's, including NBC's, role in perpetuating and glorifying the "gun culture"? Why take the simpleton's route of blaming the gun for the action of the man?

It's been brought up. Now defend it.


Because a gun allows pretty much anyone to kill. Benoit was lifting weights and shooting steroids for years. farking duh. The majority of FARK members are (ok, like me) out of shape and could maybe fist-fight for a few minuted before getting winded; they could not kill people with bare hands. But put a gun into their hands and they don't even have to run after you (as opposed to a knife or a club) and unlike say a bow or other projectile weapon even low-cap firearms can unload a lot of hell in a hurry.

Is there no little voice in your head that tells you this shiat before your fingers go to work?
 
2012-12-03 03:42:48 AM  

Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.


Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?
 
2012-12-03 03:45:19 AM  

smells_like_meat: Link

Something to consider.


As soon as I found out about this story on Saturday afternoon, I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation. I'm convinced, though, that the only way football is going to completely change (or go away completely) is if Peyton Manning's head is literally ripped off of his neck in the middle of the Super Bowl.
 
2012-12-03 03:45:33 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


You are right. Americans really should reconsider the bloodbath on the roads.
 
2012-12-03 03:46:15 AM  
I guess the idea that the terrible tragedy of a man killing his girlfriend and then himself (with a gun) providing a springboard to mention that too many other people die by killing themselves (with guns) is just more than some people can bear.

I seriously doubt that if the same guy had killed his girlfriend and himself by driving drunk and going over a cliff, and Costas had taken the opportunity at halftime to speak out against drunk driving, that an equal number of NFL fans and Farkers would be infuriated about his "pushing his agenda" against drinking, driving, or Miller Lite. Or perhaps they would. People get outraged by so many things these days.

Say what you like, but it's not wrong to point out that a lot of people use handguns to kill themselves and their significant others when they are depressed and/or angry. This is a bad thing. They might well find another way to do it, if the handguns were not available; however, it's undeniable that handguns make it much easier and quicker than if they had to use baseball bats or crossbows. That would be a bad thing too, and then people could be angry that Costas was making a halftime speech about people using crossbows to commit suicide, and they'd still look like insensitive idiots.
 
2012-12-03 03:46:18 AM  

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?


Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.
 
2012-12-03 03:47:36 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: logruszed: Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.

The time and place to discuss the reality of a possible epidemic of firearms enabled violence must be when and where nobody is looking.

The time and place is when there can be a discussion...

Not when one person is giving me his unsolicited and unquestioned opinion during an entertainment/sporting event... and taking advantage of a personal family tragedy to ply his unsolicited opinion.


That is how a television works, you're confusing it with Skype. If you have a problem with being told things and being unable to engage in a discussion stick to Skype and call-in shows (hint: call-in shows only work when they are live. Watching rebroadcasts won't work).
 
2012-12-03 03:49:13 AM  

thegod082: I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation.


I'd say that since jealous guys have been killing their SOs long before football was around, head injuries aren't really needed in the equation.
 
2012-12-03 03:49:36 AM  

Gyrfalcon: I guess the idea that the terrible tragedy of a man killing his girlfriend and then himself (with a gun) providing a springboard to mention that too many other people die by killing themselves (with guns) is just more than some people can bear.

I seriously doubt that if the same guy had killed his girlfriend and himself by driving drunk and going over a cliff, and Costas had taken the opportunity at halftime to speak out against drunk driving, that an equal number of NFL fans and Farkers would be infuriated about his "pushing his agenda" against drinking, driving, or Miller Lite. Or perhaps they would. People get outraged by so many things these days.

Say what you like, but it's not wrong to point out that a lot of people use handguns to kill themselves and their significant others when they are depressed and/or angry. This is a bad thing. They might well find another way to do it, if the handguns were not available; however, it's undeniable that handguns make it much easier and quicker than if they had to use baseball bats or crossbows. That would be a bad thing too, and then people could be angry that Costas was making a halftime speech about people using crossbows to commit suicide, and they'd still look like insensitive idiots.


I think people like being outraged, I really do. Everyone wants to push his/her politics on everyone else.
 
2012-12-03 03:50:34 AM  

Mock26:
Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.


That independent study seems unskewed
 
2012-12-03 03:51:16 AM  

Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.


A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link
 
2012-12-03 03:51:40 AM  

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?


I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:03 AM  

XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?

She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.

Even sadder then? i didn't find that detail in the articles i read. All i read was he killed her 3 months after the birth of their daughter and then went to the stadium and spoke to staff/coaches and then shot himself in their presence.

Thank you for your input- i always look for your comments.

/i feel even worse now.
//i don't favorite anyone, but i respect you and a few others.


Yes, even sadder, IMO as well.

I just learned a few hours ago the she was a cousin of Jamaal Charles' wife.

The sad keeps piling on.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:08 AM  

thegod082: smells_like_meat: Link

Something to consider.

As soon as I found out about this story on Saturday afternoon, I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation. I'm convinced, though, that the only way football is going to completely change (or go away completely) is if Peyton Manning's head is literally ripped off of his neck in the middle of the Super Bowl.


Robert Griffin III could have the same effect, and he would have the added bonus of being, what, 14 years younger than Peyton Manning? Of course, the odds of RGIII making it to the Super Bowl anytime soon are pretty slim.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:14 AM  

log_jammin: thegod082: I figured that eventually head injuries would come into the equation.

I'd say that since jealous guys have been killing their SOs long before football was around, head injuries aren't really needed in the equation.


Do you follow the NFL, or professional sports? I myself am not blaming it on head injuries -- I don't know the facts. But I had strong suspicions that the media, correctly or incorrectly, would eventually tie it to head injuries, because they've probably been the biggest ongoing story in the NFL for the last few years.
 
2012-12-03 03:52:42 AM  

libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.


That 2.5 million number is all over right wing sites. Not worked up at all. If he is trolling, so is 76% of the right wing.

Wait...
 
2012-12-03 03:53:18 AM  

libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: libranoelrose: XplodedSynapses: He obviously was intent on ending her life and his own.

You don't know much about this story, then.

i must not. i read what i could find on the 'nets. Have i missed something?

She came home late from a concert. He'd been suspecting her of cheating. It was a crime of passion.

Even sadder then? i didn't find that detail in the articles i read. All i read was he killed her 3 months after the birth of their daughter and then went to the stadium and spoke to staff/coaches and then shot himself in their presence.

Thank you for your input- i always look for your comments.

/i feel even worse now.
//i don't favorite anyone, but i respect you and a few others.

Yes, even sadder, IMO as well.

I just learned a few hours ago the she was a cousin of Jamaal Charles' wife.

The sad keeps piling on.


Oh for fark's sake.
Damn.

/Damn.
//Damn.
//DAMN!
 
2012-12-03 03:53:21 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.


I'm telling you human beings are bad news.
 
2012-12-03 03:55:19 AM  

logruszed: (hint: call-in shows only work when they are live. Watching rebroadcasts won't work)


That was funny.
 
2012-12-03 03:55:53 AM  

BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.



Aye.
It's humans.
 
2012-12-03 03:56:12 AM  

thegod082: Do you follow the NFL, or professional sports?


does darts count?

thegod082: I myself am not blaming it on head injuries -- I don't know the facts. But I had strong suspicions that the media, correctly or incorrectly, would eventually tie it to head injuries, because they've probably been the biggest ongoing story in the NFL for the last few years.


They'll link it because it will sell.

Not trying to argue with you. just saying.
 
2012-12-03 03:56:54 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.


Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.
 
2012-12-03 03:59:43 AM  

XplodedSynapses: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.


Aye.
It's humans.


Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.
 
2012-12-03 04:00:17 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.


The problem is that "smart, reasonable restrictions" usually mean "only the rich and well-connected get to own them".
 
2012-12-03 04:01:04 AM  

Gyrfalcon: I guess the idea that the terrible tragedy of a man killing his girlfriend and then himself (with a gun) providing a springboard to mention that too many other people die by killing themselves (with guns) is just more than some people can bear.

I seriously doubt that if the same guy had killed his girlfriend and himself by driving drunk and going over a cliff, and Costas had taken the opportunity at halftime to speak out against drunk driving, that an equal number of NFL fans and Farkers would be infuriated about his "pushing his agenda" against drinking, driving, or Miller Lite. Or perhaps they would. People get outraged by so many things these days.

Say what you like, but it's not wrong to point out that a lot of people use handguns to kill themselves and their significant others when they are depressed and/or angry. This is a bad thing. They might well find another way to do it, if the handguns were not available; however, it's undeniable that handguns make it much easier and quicker than if they had to use baseball bats or crossbows. That would be a bad thing too, and then people could be angry that Costas was making a halftime speech about people using crossbows to commit suicide, and they'd still look like insensitive idiots.



Concise.
 
2012-12-03 04:01:32 AM  

Krieghund: What is wrong with you people that listen to Costas in the first place? I realize not everyone owns a Tivo, but damn, leave the room or mute him or something.


major bingo.

other intelligent things i've heard during football games: (interview) Pro Athlete: "I knew if we could stay ahead in points we would win the game".
 
2012-12-03 04:02:18 AM  

mediablitz: Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.


humans are humans no matter where they are. But life, laws, and customs are all very different across the globe. Gun ownership is just one in a ton of other factors.
 
2012-12-03 04:02:27 AM  

mediablitz: XplodedSynapses: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.


Aye.
It's humans.

Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.


i do not want to sound like a smartass, but guns don't shoot all by themselves.
 
2012-12-03 04:03:53 AM  

XplodedSynapses: mediablitz: XplodedSynapses: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

I'm telling you human beings are bad news.


Aye.
It's humans.

Except when you look at the facts about Switzerland and gun ownership, you see it isn't at all the same.

i do not want to sound like a smartass, but guns don't shoot all by themselves.


Of course, if i'd actually read all the comments to the quote, i'd know better than to say that?
 
2012-12-03 04:04:48 AM  

mediablitz:
Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.


That article says the exact opposite of what you are implying it says. It says Switzerland has one of the lowest homicide rates around (.5 per 100,000), despite easy access to guns. All it says is that 48% of the very few homicides it does have are committed with guns. You will note that means that the majority of the very few homicides in Switzerland are committed with something other than a gun, despite their easy access there.

The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.
 
2012-12-03 04:05:56 AM  

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


Ever hear of drunk driving?
 
2012-12-03 04:06:14 AM  

fusillade762: Mock26: People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

OK, fine. People need cars. We do not need alcohol. And more people die from alcohol related problems than they do from guns. So are you not advocating the prohibition of alcohol? Hmmm?

You can murder someone with alcohol?


Ever heard of drunk driving?
 
2012-12-03 04:06:23 AM  

Rent Party: The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.


a violent people who do things like not treat the mentally ill and dismiss poverty.
 
2012-12-03 04:07:42 AM  
This behavior disgusts me so I'll just leave this here.

"Funny how the people who want to remove guns from the street also expect a police officer to show up instantly when they call 911 and do violence on their behalf to keep them safe. I wonder if what they're really scared of is the concept of taking personal responsibility for your own safety."
 
2012-12-03 04:08:28 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: mediablitz: I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is

By "one of the highest per capita gun violence rates" you mean 30th in the nation Link?

No. I meant how often guns are used in VIOLENT CRIMES, just like I said.

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"

Montana rates 5th in gun related deaths:

Link

Go ahead now. Ignore that. It doesn't fit your narrative.

Two thirds of all suicides in Montana involve guns, compared to half, which is the average in the United States.

Link

Go ahead. Ignore that statistic too. I realize neither fit your narrative, and discussing these issues frighten you at some basic level. That's the only explanation for your irrational anger. 

Now: do you want to calmly and rationally discuss this, or are you all about screaming and willful ignorance?

I'll say it again... Switzerland has one of the most armed populations in the world... and a "gun culture" that rivals or surpasses that of the US... yet... there is almost no gun violence.

Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.


There are a number of issues you're either intentionally or accidentally ignorant of or just failing to represent:

Not the least of which is that due to mandatory militia/military service (the actual reason so many guns are out there) a psychiatric evaluation determines eligibility for firearms ownership. If you're a dangerous nut you don't get a farking gun.

Private sales don't need a permit but there is a mandatory paper trail and the seller is quite accountable.

The certainly do have a lower per-capita gun crime rate than here some of which can be explained by the above but they also do not have the same socioeconomic problems we have here. They are largely a homogenous people, have universal healthcare, they are by U.S. standards basically Socialist with a strong social welfare system and little relative poverty.

So you want everyone to have guns like Switzerland? Cool. When do we get our socialism and free universal healthcare? Also when do we kick out all the white people (since according to FOX they are the minority now, that just seems easier).
 
2012-12-03 04:09:12 AM  

log_jammin: Rent Party: The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.

a violent people who do things like not treat the mentally ill and dismiss poverty.


Those would be violent acts by my definition.
 
2012-12-03 04:09:32 AM  

Securitywyrm: the concept of taking personal responsibility for your own safety."


how does that have fark all to do with the guy who shot his GF then himself?
 
2012-12-03 04:10:18 AM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: If I were truly sure I was in the right when I defended gun culture, unlimited gun rights, etc., I wouldn't go yelping like a scalded dog every time someone suggests we might want to enact a law or two to dial that culture back a notch.
Instead, I would quietly say "Fark you, enact what you want, I'M the one with the guns."

Those who squawl like 5-year-olds deprived of a toy are telling me that deep down inside, they know their position is indefensible. The sad thing is, they're convinced someone is about to actually do away with the entire 2nd Amendment. Shallow-minded extremism, that is. No wonder they don't want a gun control debate; such a conversation would require nuanced thought.


That squall you refer to is the concept of not giving an inch. Those who'd rather keep their rights are well-aware of when concessions are made in the direction of eliminating or restricting rights. It's very difficult to get them back again.
 
2012-12-03 04:10:28 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.


Heart disease is the #1 killer in America...Perhaps while we're on the subject of banning things for their 'useless nature' we can go ahead and add ALL fast-food joints to the list.
 
2012-12-03 04:12:17 AM  

mediablitz: Not saying that this justifies an armed populace... just that most of the violence problems are societal/cultural... doesn't matter if guns are controlled or not.

Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.


I would read it... but their site apparently REALLY wants me to buy a new surround sound system... since the full screen ad re-opens every time I close it. Maybe my puter is broken.

The opposite end of the spectrum would be places like D.C. where gun violence was (still is) out of control... even though guns were illegal.

I had to submit to an extensive background check, take a safety class and demonstrate competent handling of the weapon when I got my CCW. I have no issues with that. I have no issue with regulations/laws designed to keep guns away from criminals. What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens (as they do in most cities in CA for example).
 
2012-12-03 04:14:42 AM  

TheEdibleSnuggie: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Heart disease is the #1 killer in America...Perhaps while we're on the subject of banning things for their 'useless nature' we can go ahead and add ALL fast-food joints to the list.


Oh come on. LIVING is the #1 killer in America.
 
2012-12-03 04:15:33 AM  

mediablitz:

Montana is 7th. 71.4% of all violent crimes in Montana involve guns:

Link Go ahead. Sort by "%gun"


According to that link, when it comes to gun homicides Montana is 30th, with 2.31 per 100,000.

Also, from the FBI:
img.photobucket.comView Full Size

img.photobucket.comView Full Size

img.photobucket.comView Full Size


Montana:
Firearm robberies (per 100,000): 49th
Firearm assaults (per 100,000): 30th
 
2012-12-03 04:15:47 AM  

XplodedSynapses: TheEdibleSnuggie: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

Heart disease is the #1 killer in America...Perhaps while we're on the subject of banning things for their 'useless nature' we can go ahead and add ALL fast-food joints to the list.

Oh come on. LIVING is the #1 killer in America.


i am fairly sure, it's a global epidemic.
 
2012-12-03 04:17:36 AM  

Securitywyrm: This behavior disgusts me so I'll just leave this here.

"Funny how the people who want to remove guns from the street also expect a police officer to show up instantly when they call 911 and do violence on their behalf to keep them safe. I wonder if what they're really scared of is the concept of taking personal responsibility for your own safety."


I'm sure most people have no interest in taking personal responsibility for anything they do. That's way all the farking lawsuits. A guy robbing someone's house gets shot. The criminal could and probably has sued the owner of the house.
 
2012-12-03 04:17:48 AM  

LaughingRadish: That squall you refer to is the concept of not giving an inch. Those who'd rather keep their rights are well-aware of when concessions are made in the direction of eliminating or restricting rights. It's very difficult to get them back again.


I agree that it would be very difficult to get those rights back again, because future generations would be saying, "Why the fark would we go back to the old ways? Clearly, those people were doing something stupid." Sort of like how there isn't much of a serious push to bring back slavery.
 
2012-12-03 04:17:55 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens


Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.
 
2012-12-03 04:19:09 AM  

logruszed: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

How much are you paying a month in gun insurance and where did you take your gun test.

Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.

This is the same group that used Charlton Heston, when he was suffering from dementia and forgot that he once loudly stood for registration and sensible gun laws, as a spokesman.

So go back to your cellar and polish your Taurus and Kel-Tec collection and STFU.


This. I used to be a member of the NRA until the organization got hijacked by Neo-Con Jeebus freaks and the Tea Baggers. As an owners of firearms, I find nothing wrong with some legislation that aids law enforcement to help solve gun crimes. In addition, what the hell is wrong with having mandatroy firearms training for future gun owners?
 
2012-12-03 04:19:38 AM  

UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.


And this is exactly why all the "good citizens only" gun laws in the world wouldn't have done shiat for these people. Belcher was a model citizen and success story until he hit a bump.
 
2012-12-03 04:20:01 AM  

fugeeface: this should be good

/fark you Costas


You'd be surprised how civil us NFL fans can be when we circle our wagons.
 
2012-12-03 04:20:15 AM  

UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.


you may as well say everyone isn't a murderer until their life hits a bump.
 
2012-12-03 04:22:06 AM  

UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.


It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.
 
2012-12-03 04:22:28 AM  

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link


Let me get this straight. You're using a relatively anonymous poster, who seems to be unaware that DGU's are rarely reported, on some forum to debunk the study?
 
2012-12-03 04:22:53 AM  

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?


Yes, because that disparity is not from a single study. If it was then I would see your point. I was just offering two different set of statistics on the subject. Feel free to take either one, because both are still greater than the number of murders each year. Heck, take the Department of Justice number, halve it, and it is still greater than the number of murders committed in this country each year.
 
2012-12-03 04:23:51 AM  

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: I live in Chicago, one of the most gun-violent cities in America. For 30 years there was a handgun ban, and gun crime continued to rise. Recently, handgun bans were found unconstitutional, therefore the city had to allow them, although the permits are very difficult to get. Murders have gone down a bit, but again Chicago is still one of the most gun violent places.

Go ahead, tell me how handgun bans are effective in stopping gun violence/murder


I live in Montana. There are very few gun limitations. Montana has one of the highest per capita gun violence rates, and suicide by gun rates in the nation.

Go ahead. Tell me how unfettered access to guns is effective in stopping gun violence?

/that's how idiotic your "argument" is


In 2010 Montana was 30th out of 51 states (DC included) in Assaults with a firearm.
It was also 38 of 51 for murders by firearm.
Japan has one of the higher suicide rates in the world even though there are virtually no firearms of any kind available in that country. The problem with suicide is not firearms, it is that people want to kill themselves.
So yeah... You need to stop trotting out this argument.

Another thing to consider is violence vs gun violence. For instance, Illinois is lower than Montana in firearm assaults per capita, but it is twice as high in violent crimes. This supports the idea that while legal handguns increases gun crimes over a total ban it greatly decreases violent crimes in general.

There is also the reporting issues that makes data gathered based on police reports somewhat invalid for inter-state comparison. One aspect is how crimes are categorized. One state may call "brandishing" felony assault with a firearm while another states calls it misdemeanor assault (firearm not mentioned). It is also much easier to get nailed with "brandishing" in states where open carry is legal than in states where it is not, so the numbers get skewed by this. Then there are areas in some larger cities where people who are assaulted with a firearm don't tend to report it, while in towns and smaller cities it is virtually always reported. Police in some cities may also discourage formal reporting of such incidents if they know there is nothing that can be done, which probably doesn't happen in places like Montana as much as in Chicago.

All that being said, the idea that guns being legal and common inherently stops or discourages violent crime isn't entire true. There is a correlation between gun legality/accessibility and decreased violent crime, but it is not a particularly strong correlation. In other words, there is enough of a correlation to say it definitely helps, not enough to explain the difference between, for instance, Chicago and Cheyenne. Those differences are based on a lot of other factors as well.
 
2012-12-03 04:24:33 AM  

libranoelrose: fugeeface: this should be good

/fark you Costas

You'd be surprised how civil us NFL fans can be when we circle our wagons.


I understand some European football fans riot and set things on fire when their team looses........or wins................or shows up.
 
2012-12-03 04:24:40 AM  

libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.


Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.
 
2012-12-03 04:24:54 AM  

libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.


Nope. Not trolling.
 
2012-12-03 04:28:08 AM  

libranoelrose: It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.


I can't. please explain it to me.

My life has had plenty of "bumps", so has most of the people I know. Yet I've never gunned someone down, and neither has anyone else I know. From my point of view murder/suicides are a rare thing, despite life generally sucking.

so what am I missing?
 
2012-12-03 04:28:16 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.


So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.
 
2012-12-03 04:28:58 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.


I don't believe any of it. My life has hit lots of bumps, but I don't own a gun......so i guess, BULLY for me.
 
2012-12-03 04:30:49 AM  
Well, gun nuts creep me the fook out.
 
2012-12-03 04:31:05 AM  

thegod082: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.


Seriously?

Let me point out the two key words here... "everyone" and "Javon Belcher".

Try again...
 
2012-12-03 04:31:10 AM  

thegod082: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.


Maybe just maybe he was bat shait crazy all along. You can never ever really know what another person is thinking.
 
2012-12-03 04:31:11 AM  

thegod082: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.


I think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said "I need to see a farking shrink before I hurt her and myself"
 
2012-12-03 04:33:07 AM  

thegod082: LaughingRadish: That squall you refer to is the concept of not giving an inch. Those who'd rather keep their rights are well-aware of when concessions are made in the direction of eliminating or restricting rights. It's very difficult to get them back again.

I agree that it would be very difficult to get those rights back again, because future generations would be saying, "Why the fark would we go back to the old ways? Clearly, those people were doing something stupid." Sort of like how there isn't much of a serious push to bring back slavery.


The argument of "why the fark would be go back to the old ways" is very commonly used by tyrants to squelch dissent. Read "Animal Farm" sometime. It's full of that sort of thing.

"When a tyrant first appears he always comes as your protector." -- Plato
 
2012-12-03 04:33:53 AM  

log_jammin: thegod082: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

So you think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said, "I'm actually an irresponsible gun owner, and if things ever get out of control in my life, there's a pretty good possibility I'm going to murder my girlfriend and then turn the gun on myself"?

No, of course he thought he was a responsible gun owner.

I think Javon Belcher, if he were to have honestly evaluated himself, would have said "I need to see a farking shrink before I hurt her and myself"


Well now maybe he'll get a Darwin award, although, he did already reproduce.
 
2012-12-03 04:33:59 AM  

BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

I don't believe any of it. My life has hit lots of bumps, but I don't own a gun......so i guess, BULLY for me.


No gun? Uhhh... you should get one. What are you going to do when a bear knocks down your door?
 
2012-12-03 04:36:17 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

I don't believe any of it. My life has hit lots of bumps, but I don't own a gun......so i guess, BULLY for me.

No gun? Uhhh... you should get one. What are you going to do when a bear knocks down your door?


I specifically asked to live in a bear free zone. Someone is gonna have some splainin to do if that shait happens.
Oh wait someone's at the door........
 
2012-12-03 04:38:32 AM  

mediablitz: libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.

That 2.5 million number is all over right wing sites. Not worked up at all. If he is trolling, so is 76% of the right wing.

Wait...


The reason I included it is because it is cited so many times by so many gun advocates. Note, though, that it was not the only number I put out there. I personally do not believe the number from the Kleck study but even the lower number from the Department of Justice is far greater than the number of murders committed each year in this country.
 
2012-12-03 04:38:36 AM  

BlousyBrown: libranoelrose: fugeeface: this should be good

/fark you Costas

You'd be surprised how civil us NFL fans can be when we circle our wagons.

I understand some European football fans riot and set things on fire when their team looses........or wins................or shows up.


I'd be surprised if this thread lasts long enough to get the soccer hooligans here, but good on ya for the effort.

Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.


I think we might have hit a bump here.

I wasn't meaning to say that responsible citizens shouldn't be able to own weapons.

I was agreeing with UtlimaCS that it's easy to use that weapon responsibly until the human condition takes over.

Mock26: libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.

Nope. Not trolling.


I know you like to troll, that huge disparity in the amount of times guns are used to stop a crime proves it.

Silly goose.

log_jammin: so what am I missing?


There's a reason people don't just have a button installed on them that you can press to end their life.
 
2012-12-03 04:39:26 AM  

BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

I don't believe any of it. My life has hit lots of bumps, but I don't own a gun......so i guess, BULLY for me.

No gun? Uhhh... you should get one. What are you going to do when a bear knocks down your door?

I specifically asked to live in a bear free zone. Someone is gonna have some splainin to do if that shait happens.
Oh wait someone's at the door........


I guess this shiat really works huh?

newsgrift.comView Full Size
 
2012-12-03 04:40:02 AM  

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


Then move away, asshole.
 
2012-12-03 04:43:47 AM  

libranoelrose: Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: UltimaCS: Pray 4 Mojo: What I do have an issue with is those laws being used to keep guns out of the hands of responsible citizens

Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump.

It's amazing how people can't comprehend this.

Not as amazing as it is that people believe it.

I think we might have hit a bump here.

I wasn't meaning to say that responsible citizens shouldn't be able to own weapons.

I was agreeing with UtlimaCS that it's easy to use that weapon responsibly until the human condition takes over.


Problem is... that's not what he or she said.

There are plenty of things in every home that will quickly and easily kill a person... yet... we all don't get all murdery when life throws us a curve.
 
2012-12-03 04:43:53 AM  

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link


Guns in America: National Survey on
Private Ownership and Use of Firearms

U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
National Institute of Justice

See Page 8 for numbers on defensive gun use, including comparisons to the Kleck report.
 
2012-12-03 04:44:30 AM  

libranoelrose: There's a reason people don't just have a button installed on them that you can press to end their life.


that reason is, because we are not machines. But that is not an answer to my question.

"Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump." is obviously not true since the vast majority of gun owners don't kill themselves or others when their life hits a bump, and murder suicides are a very rare event. yes? no? why or why not?
 
2012-12-03 04:44:51 AM  

stirfrybry: carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.

Then move away, asshole.


Here's an example of humans being humans becoming belligerent and hostile. What is wrong with you? Lighten up
no one is taking your car or your gun.
 
2012-12-03 04:45:25 AM  

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: puffy999: So, whether or not I agree with Costas, I'd say this was as good as any time to bring this up.

Alright then. Why did he blame the gun? Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself. Why not address the issue of concussion-causing brain damage rampant in the NFL? Why not the media's, including NBC's, role in perpetuating and glorifying the "gun culture"? Why take the simpleton's route of blaming the gun for the action of the man?

It's been brought up. Now defend it.

I can see the spittle flying out of your mouth.


translation: I got nothin
 
2012-12-03 04:46:39 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: There are plenty of things in every home that will quickly and easily kill a person.


Stop it.

I don't take you for someone that will argue semantics about how easy it is to kill someone with a gun as opposed to any other household weapon.

Don't be that guy.
 
2012-12-03 04:49:17 AM  

libranoelrose: Mock26: libranoelrose: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to use a disparity that large as fact?

Stop getting quite so worked up, he's trolling.

Nope. Not trolling.

I know you like to troll, that huge disparity in the amount of times guns are used to stop a crime proves it.

Silly goose.


If that disparity was from a single study, then you might be right. But it is not from a single study. As I said to another poster, take either number, either the one from the Department of Justice or the one from the Kleck report. Either number is greater than the number of murders committed in this country each year. Hell, divide each number in half and they are each still greater than the number of murders committed each year.
 
2012-12-03 04:51:09 AM  

BlousyBrown: Lighten up no one is taking your car or your gun.


While ownership is technically still legal in California... it's petty much illegal to use them in most cities.

that's the problem.

/interactions with PD's in California get VERY scary when the citizen is carrying.
//and that's really not necessary
 
2012-12-03 04:53:02 AM  

log_jammin: libranoelrose: There's a reason people don't just have a button installed on them that you can press to end their life.

that reason is, because we are not machines. But that is not an answer to my question.

"Everyone's a good, responsible gun owner until their life hits a bump." is obviously not true since the vast majority of gun owners don't kill themselves or others when their life hits a bump, and murder suicides are a very rare event. yes? no? why or why not?


I do believe that murder suicide events are rare compared to the circus.
 
2012-12-03 04:54:09 AM  

mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link


Also, I would like to point out that the guy who you linked to does not offer up a single shred of evidence when he "debunks" the numbers from the Kleck report. Whether or not you agree with Kleck's numbers (and by the way, I do not), he at least has data to support them. The guy you linked to has none.
 
2012-12-03 04:54:18 AM  
Noon'e posted this yet? Im shocked.

images2.dailykos.comView Full Size
 
2012-12-03 04:57:09 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: Lighten up no one is taking your car or your gun.

While ownership is technically still legal in California... it's petty much illegal to use them in most cities.

that's the problem.

/interactions with PD's in California get VERY scary when the citizen is carrying.
//and that's really not necessary


I'd say interactions with PDs in the US is freakin scary, irrespective of whether the pd is californian or arizonan or oregonian or ohioan or whereever. American cops are scary, stupid, well armed, protect one another to ridiculous extremes and see the world in terms of Cops and Perps.
 
2012-12-03 04:59:36 AM  

libranoelrose: I do believe that murder suicide events are rare compared to the circus.


...ok....
 
2012-12-03 05:00:51 AM  

libranoelrose: Pray 4 Mojo: There are plenty of things in every home that will quickly and easily kill a person.

Stop it.

I don't take you for someone that will argue semantics about how easy it is to kill someone with a gun as opposed to any other household weapon.

Don't be that guy.


Don't tell me which guy to be!

Look... it's not a semantic argument. Is a big-ass butcher knife the same as a gun? No. I'm not saying it is. The point is that "responsible gun owners"... in fact as it was said "every" responsible gun owner will not get all murdery just 'cause their life its a bump.

The gun provides an easier option if one chooses to get murdery... that's it.

Case in point... I would guess that if Belche didn't have a gun... the only life that would have been saved is his. A massive, strong and athletic human male got really, really pissed off and shot his girlfriend... I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would have just beaten, stabbed, strangled her if he had no gun.
 
2012-12-03 05:04:49 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: libranoelrose: Pray 4 Mojo: There are plenty of things in every home that will quickly and easily kill a person.

Stop it.

I don't take you for someone that will argue semantics about how easy it is to kill someone with a gun as opposed to any other household weapon.

Don't be that guy.

Don't tell me which guy to be!

Look... it's not a semantic argument. Is a big-ass butcher knife the same as a gun? No. I'm not saying it is. The point is that "responsible gun owners"... in fact as it was said "every" responsible gun owner will not get all murdery just 'cause their life its a bump.

The gun provides an easier option if one chooses to get murdery... that's it.

Case in point... I would guess that if Belche didn't have a gun... the only life that would have been saved is his. A massive, strong and athletic human male got really, really pissed off and shot his girlfriend... I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would have just beaten, stabbed, strangled her if he had no gun.


I'm sorry, little confused. I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

Who is that guy? Is he bad? Is there more than one "that guy". I submit that there would have to be more than one.
 
2012-12-03 05:05:27 AM  

Mock26: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link

Guns in America: National Survey on
Private Ownership and Use of Firearms
U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
National Institute of Justice

See Page 8 for numbers on defensive gun use, including comparisons to the Kleck report.


Both of those links debunk 2.5 million DGUs quite nicely and explain the origin of the myth/talking point. While no one can dispute firearms can dissuade crime, it is a silly position to take to that it counterpoints the documented crimes committed with firearms. That's like comparing dog bites to puppy cuddles and weighting them equally.

Not to mention how many of those DGUs were people pulling guns on people who pulled a gun on them, that never makes it to the statistics.
 
2012-12-03 05:06:14 AM  

log_jammin: libranoelrose: I do believe that murder suicide events are rare compared to the circus.

...ok....


I'm glad you agree.

It's ridiculous how often we have to get into gun ownership threads on Fark when the original subject sometimes isn't about that.

It's like somehow there was a comment by a commentator who pulled the "I don't always agree with this guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy, but now I do.", turned into a gun rights thread.

This is a circus now.
 
2012-12-03 05:07:51 AM  
Probably the loudest, whiniest group of entitled-feeling white men in America - and that's saying something. I can think of no group who has less to biatch anout than gun owners = and yet their paranoid, self-martyring wailing shakes the rafters.
What a bunch of sissy-assed, no balls little girls.

And yes, I own guns - have all my life. I'm just sick of the whining - it's embarrassing.
 
2012-12-03 05:08:43 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Case in point... I would guess that if Belche didn't have a gun... the only life that would have been saved is his. A massive, strong and athletic human male got really, really pissed off and shot his girlfriend... I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would have just beaten, stabbed, strangled her if he had no gun.


Yeah, but it didn't happen that way.

He shot her right in front of his mom, who was holding their baby.

If he didn't have a gun I doubt the beating would have gotten any further than him raising his fist and then his mom slapping him in the face.
 
2012-12-03 05:09:14 AM  

libranoelrose: It's like somehow there was a comment by a commentator who pulled the "I don't always agree with this guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy, but now I do.", turned into a gun rights thread.


In fairness the "guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy" is Jason Whitlock. and the dude is a troll. He knew this would blow up and get him page views. Guys been doing crap like ths for years.
 
2012-12-03 05:10:22 AM  

BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"


You're being that guy.
 
2012-12-03 05:11:00 AM  

Father_Jack: Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: Lighten up no one is taking your car or your gun.

While ownership is technically still legal in California... it's petty much illegal to use them in most cities.

that's the problem.

/interactions with PD's in California get VERY scary when the citizen is carrying.
//and that's really not necessary

I'd say interactions with PDs in the US is freakin scary, irrespective of whether the pd is californian or arizonan or oregonian or ohioan or whereever. American cops are scary, stupid, well armed, protect one another to ridiculous extremes and see the world in terms of Cops and Perps.


"Hello, Officer. I'd like to inform you that I'm legally carrying a concealed and loaded 9mm pistol under my left arm which I intend to leave holstered."

It's fun starting off every interaction I have with CA cops with that speech. Hate doing it, but it's better than having some dumbass shoot me if he happens to see it.
 
2012-12-03 05:12:31 AM  

logruszed: Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.


You're missing one big difference. Driving is a privilege, while gun ownership is a Constitutionally protected right.
 
2012-12-03 05:13:49 AM  

log_jammin: libranoelrose: It's like somehow there was a comment by a commentator who pulled the "I don't always agree with this guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy, but now I do.", turned into a gun rights thread.

In fairness the "guy who is from the same town as where this tragedy" is Jason Whitlock. and the dude is a troll. He knew this would blow up and get him page views. Guys been doing crap like ths for years.


I'm so conflicted here.

Whitlock is a troll if you are a blind Chiefs fan, but I'm not one of those.

Most Chiefs fans I know are. I've been yelling at them for years, and arguing with Jason as much as much as most of them.

I know who Whitlock is.
 
2012-12-03 05:13:58 AM  
There's like 50 people a day killed in the U.S. every day. Most of those are from unregistered, illegal handguns, and most involve the drug trade in some way.You only hear about the high profile cases unfortunately, and most of those are licensed gun carriers, though I don't know if this guy was licensed. To restrict gun ownership to law abiding citizenry will not effect gun violence as a whole since the criminals will still get a gun one way or another.

Illegal drugs are still available if you want to break the law..as guns will be.

/not a gun owner
 
2012-12-03 05:14:18 AM  

libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.


I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.
 
2012-12-03 05:14:51 AM  

libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.


It's like a poker game... if you can't spot the sucker... you are the sucker. Same thing... if you don't know who "that guy" is... you are that guy.
 
2012-12-03 05:15:22 AM  
-1 as much
 
2012-12-03 05:17:16 AM  

BlousyBrown: libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.

I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.


I think you should tell us about them...

and use lots of adjectives.

/and big words.
 
2012-12-03 05:18:27 AM  

BlousyBrown: I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.


Pray 4 Mojo: It's like a poker game... if you can't spot the sucker... you are the sucker. Same thing... if you don't know who "that guy" is... you are that guy.


ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-12-03 05:21:25 AM  

BlousyBrown: except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic.


Can we go over this part again, please?
 
2012-12-03 05:22:09 AM  
I just get sick and tired of all these gun control nuts popping up and shoving their agenda down our throats any chance they can get.

Why won't they just shut the fark up about it and get over it?

The 2nd Amendment is our right to bear arms in the United States. Get over it and stop your whining. You are starting to make our ears bleed.

( and no, the gun didn't mind control Belcher into killing people and himself. And if he didn't have a gun, it would have been a knife. )
 
2012-12-03 05:22:39 AM  
It's the gun fantasy that's the problem. I had a friend that was a gun lover and he frequently fantasized about finding someone in his house and shooting them. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're a better shot than a bad guy.

There is a reason the offense has an advantage in football. They know what they are going to do and the defense doesn't know. If a bad guy has a gun and they want to kill you, they will usually succeed because it was their idea.

/It also doesn't protect you from a crazy spouse or child in your house.
 
2012-12-03 05:23:48 AM  
I like Costas. I think he is one of the few talented journalists. Regardless of his opinions or speculations, I won't judge.
 
2012-12-03 05:24:15 AM  

libranoelrose: Pray 4 Mojo: Case in point... I would guess that if Belche didn't have a gun... the only life that would have been saved is his. A massive, strong and athletic human male got really, really pissed off and shot his girlfriend... I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would have just beaten, stabbed, strangled her if he had no gun.

Yeah, but it didn't happen that way.

He shot her right in front of his mom, who was holding their baby.

If he didn't have a gun I doubt the beating would have gotten any further than him raising his fist and then his mom slapping him in the face.


Fair point I guess... I admittedly don't know many of the details of this case.

It's the "every" that pissed me off...

I've had plenty of "bumps" in my life... even a few that were violent or potentially violent... and I still haven't shot anybody.
 
2012-12-03 05:24:21 AM  

MagicMissile: I just get sick


You won't last a year here. Good luck.
 
2012-12-03 05:24:24 AM  
Obama says guns belong in the hands of soldiers. And drug cartels. But not you.
 
2012-12-03 05:24:34 AM  

Acharne: Mock26: mediablitz: Mock26: Depending on the statistics you look at, guns are used 80,000 to 2,500,000 times per year to stop crimes. (The 80,000 number is from the Department of Justice, the 2.5 million from an independent study.) They certainly prevent more crimes than they take lives.

A quick and easy debunking of this 2.5 million number:

Link

Guns in America: National Survey on
Private Ownership and Use of Firearms
U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
National Institute of Justice

See Page 8 for numbers on defensive gun use, including comparisons to the Kleck report.

Both of those links debunk 2.5 million DGUs quite nicely and explain the origin of the myth/talking point. While no one can dispute firearms can dissuade crime, it is a silly position to take to that it counterpoints the documented crimes committed with firearms. That's like comparing dog bites to puppy cuddles and weighting them equally.

Not to mention how many of those DGUs were people pulling guns on people who pulled a gun on them, that never makes it to the statistics.


Actually, the link posted by the other user debunks nothing. It has no supporting data to support it. As for the link that I posted:

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.

So, it really does not debunk the Kleck numbers, either.

But that is neither here nor there. Disregard the Kleck study completely and take the Department of Justice number of 80,000 (108,000 according to the link I provided) and the number of murders committed in this country is significantly lower than the number of times a gun is used to prevent a crime in this country.

* NSPOF: National Survey of Private Ownership of Firearms.
 
2012-12-03 05:25:26 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.

I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.

I think you should tell us about them...

and use lots of adjectives.

/and big words.


Locked, Stacked and two Smokin melons. Also round........ aww crap, I'm bluffing....I really am "that guy"
(still a girl, though)
 
2012-12-03 05:25:46 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: It's the "every" that pissed me off...


I hear ya.

They expect us to be polite all the time, yet they escalate whenever possible.
 
2012-12-03 05:25:59 AM  

libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic.

Can we go over this part again, please?


You're a perv...
 
2012-12-03 05:27:43 AM  

BlousyBrown: Pray 4 Mojo: BlousyBrown: libranoelrose: BlousyBrown: I have never understood the expression "don't be that guy"

You're being that guy.

I AM that guy.........except for the boob having and no penis part. AND my boobs are fantastic. I'm sticking to my guns on that.

I think you should tell us about them...

and use lots of adjectives.

/and big words.

Locked, Stacked and two Smokin melons. Also round........ aww crap, I'm bluffing....I really am "that guy"
(still a girl, though)


I would never ask you to reveal you cleavage in a thread, so I think you should upload a pic to ******* DAMMIT
 
2012-12-03 05:27:48 AM  

pnkgtr: It's the gun fantasy that's the problem. I had a friend that was a gun lover and he frequently fantasized about finding someone in his house and shooting them. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're a better shot than a bad guy.

There is a reason the offense has an advantage in football. They know what they are going to do and the defense doesn't know. If a bad guy has a gun and they want to kill you, they will usually succeed because it was their idea.

/It also doesn't protect you from a crazy spouse or child in your house.


And just because you own a gun does not mean that you fantasize about using it in an heroic fashion. I have several guns, and any gun fantasies that I might have involve either target shooting or hunting. I have never fantasized about using one to defend my home or my life.
 
2012-12-03 05:30:09 AM  
Now that guns, football and boobie trifecta is complete.

It's time for sleep.

/Good talk Rusty.
 
2012-12-03 05:31:37 AM  

libranoelrose: Whitlock is a troll if you are a blind Chiefs fan, but I'm not one of those.

Most Chiefs fans I know are. I've been yelling at them for years, and arguing with Jason as much as much as most of them.

I know who Whitlock is.



I'm proud to say that I haven't been a chiefs fan since before the turn of the century.
 
2012-12-03 05:35:01 AM  

Mock26: pnkgtr: It's the gun fantasy that's the problem. I had a friend that was a gun lover and he frequently fantasized about finding someone in his house and shooting them. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're a better shot than a bad guy.

There is a reason the offense has an advantage in football. They know what they are going to do and the defense doesn't know. If a bad guy has a gun and they want to kill you, they will usually succeed because it was their idea.

/It also doesn't protect you from a crazy spouse or child in your house.

And just because you own a gun does not mean that you fantasize about using it in an heroic fashion. I have several guns, and any gun fantasies that I might have involve either target shooting or hunting. I have never fantasized about using one to defend my home or my life.


i have zombie defense fantasies with mine. im not gonna lie. illl man up to admitting that. all my red mist fantasies involve the brain craving undead.

who happen to sort of resemble high school bullies, supes that fired me and exes who wronge me. but its coincidental.
 
2012-12-03 05:35:11 AM  

Pokey.Clyde: logruszed: Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.

You're missing one big difference. Driving is a privilege, while gun ownership is a Constitutionally protected right.


If only the framers had figured out the possibility that they might have not had the perfect everlasting solution and left in some way to alter or amend this document.

Because I'm sure people with low population density and muzzle-loading knew ahead of time that walking in to some place like a mall and being able to loose 9 rounds in less time than it took them to reload once was what they were thinking.

Or could you accept that shiat changes? Today isn't then. You can't beat your wife and kids anymore without losing them, you can't own people anymore, you can't shoot savages, etc. On the bright side diphtheria isn't much of an issue any more.
 
2012-12-03 05:36:09 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Now that guns, football and boobie trifecta is complete.

It's time for sleep.

/Good talk Rusty.


You got favorited for that, Clark.
 
2012-12-03 05:36:19 AM  

Mock26: But that is neither here nor there. Disregard the Kleck study completely and take the Department of Justice number of 80,000 (108,000 according to the link I provided) and the number of murders committed in this country is significantly lower than the number of times a gun is used to prevent a crime in this country.


Are murders the only kind of violent act that could theoretically be prevented by a gun?
 
2012-12-03 05:37:07 AM  

log_jammin: libranoelrose: Whitlock is a troll if you are a blind Chiefs fan, but I'm not one of those.

Most Chiefs fans I know are. I've been yelling at them for years, and arguing with Jason as much as much as most of them.

I know who Whitlock is.


I'm proud to say that I haven't been a chiefs fan since before the turn of the century.


Good for you.
 
2012-12-03 05:38:28 AM  

logruszed: On the bright side diphtheria isn't much of an issue any more.


This is one of my favorite things.
 
2012-12-03 05:42:13 AM  
Its great to see the paranoid gun control crowd under fire, Bob Costas should issue a public apology for what he did.
 
2012-12-03 05:46:49 AM  

MagicMissile: Its great to see the paranoid gun control crowd under fire, Bob Costas should issue a public apology for what he did.


Right after your parents issue their own.
 
2012-12-03 05:47:24 AM  

MagicMissile: Its great to see the paranoid gun control crowd under fire, Bob Costas should issue a public apology for what he did.


Nah - Costas is a jerk, but gun fappers are too sensitive, and need more slapping down when they whine, and less coddling. Man up and grow a pair, Nancy-boy.
 
2012-12-03 05:50:41 AM  
you shouldnt talk to your father that way Logruszed
 
2012-12-03 06:02:23 AM  
Amazing how a bunch of big, tough gun owners turn into whiny biatches when someone expresses an opinion questioning their need to arm themselves.

Insecure much?
 
2012-12-03 06:02:53 AM  
The knuckle-dragging, alpha-male, thug culture that these barely literate Football players live in is what needs to be controlled!
 
2012-12-03 06:07:34 AM  
i471.photobucket.comView Full Size


Would'ja rather dey's pushed from windas, little goil?
 
2012-12-03 06:07:38 AM  
There are a lot of whiny insecure biatches here complaining about the 2nd amendment, that's what I'm seeing!


I plan on using my tax return to by a rifle this year. How about you guys?
 
2012-12-03 06:09:44 AM  

carnifex2005: Pray 4 Mojo: Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Lots of people also die needlessly due to our car culture...

so... let's get rid of those too.

People need cars, people don't need handguns as every other Western nation in the world already knows.


No, people do not *need* cars. Humanity survived tens of thousands of years without them. Besides, who are you to tell us what he do and do not need, you pretentious twerp?
 
2012-12-03 06:09:53 AM  

MagicMissile: There are a lot of whiny insecure biatches here complaining about the 2nd amendment, that's what I'm seeing!


I plan on using my tax return to by a rifle this year. How about you guys?


dont buy something ghey. Get some old milsurp. Stay away from that „tacticool" AR15 and AK47 polymer bs. Get an old mauser or an old enfield from ww2.
 
2012-12-03 06:12:53 AM  
I don't care on what side of the issue you stand, all I know is that if you use the words "jam down my throat " or "shoved down my throat" then those thoughts preceding and following that are not your own. You might agree with the sentiment but you are essentially repeating a thought leader's, good or bad, talking points.

My FB feed is proof of this.
 
2012-12-03 06:13:13 AM  

mediablitz: Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.

Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.


It's not a fallacy, it's a fact. You don't need a gun to kill someone. Hey, but thanks for playing.
 
2012-12-03 06:22:59 AM  

TerminalEchoes: mediablitz: Frank N Stein: Christ Benoit proved that a roided up strongman needs no weapons to kill his wife and himself.

Ah, the old "not everyone dies via gun violence, therefore there is no need to discuss gun violence" red herring.

This tired fallacy is a staple of those unwilling to discuss rampant gun violence in the United States.

Congratulations on your lack of originality.

It's not a fallacy, it's a fact. You don't need a gun to kill someone. Hey, but thanks for playing.


You're right. I could kill somebody using an Ethernet cord. Or a lawn chair. Or an umbrella. Or insert whatever thing you want to here. The difference is very few of those things were designed with the sole intent of killing another living thing.
 
2012-12-03 06:28:51 AM  
How come no one ever talks about banning swords. I mean.... swords killed a lot of people in our species history....
 
2012-12-03 06:32:40 AM  
When I want to talk guns I certainly won't listen to a Costa who doesn't have his own action figure.

dl.dropbox.comView Full Size



jso2897: Nah - Costas is a jerk, but gun fappers are too sensitive,


We whine because the stupid burns too much to be ignored.
We've just come off a seventy year run of gun control measures that amounted to bumpkiss. Despite all the office furniture and helicopter time bought by the ATF, crime rates are falling while gun sales are spiking. It suggests that those billions spent to collect serial numbers and hunt moon shiners were wasted while education and actual law enforcement went in need.
Most of these anti-gun measures slipped past because people didn't complain loudly enough at the time.
What we learned was that a few thousand reasonable laws will eventually amount to an unreasonable outcome.

Now We have celebrities telling us that, between two weapons of the same caliber and same performance, one is more dangerous than the other due to the color of its plastic. We've got lawyers arguing that people who steal your things have a right to walk away if caught in the act. We have a man who takes a moment away from his job of narrating a gladiatorial sport to lecture us about how bad an influence those black kids and their loud hip hop music are.

Any fan of living in a free society should whine about this, because bad ideas have small beginnings.

/If you want to see domestic violence tragedies, follow the news in less affluent nations.
/Especially those in Africa, Asia, and the Middle east where gun control is often very strict (if selectively enforced). 
/Locking up the guns won't give women the edge in a fight against men. It would more do the opposite.
 
2012-12-03 06:41:01 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Dear sage, please enlighten us with your words of wisdom. More people die every day in car accidents than die by handgun violence in a year. I guess it is only reasonable to say that getting rid of cars is the natural solution to that. Use your head for something other than a hat rack, guns are nothing but objects. The football player that triggered this outburst wanted his wife dead. If he didn't have access to a gun, there is no doubt he would have used something else. It would be better to get rid of the reason that these people are doing these things rather than the tool they use to do them. Otherwise, they will continue to happen.
 
2012-12-03 06:52:06 AM  
hbk72777: don't fix the stupidity that caused it in the first place

You've obviously never tried to fix stupid.
 
2012-12-03 06:53:41 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.


Lots of people die due to our gun/car/drug/sedentary/abortion culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of doing bidness in Muricah.
 
2012-12-03 06:56:09 AM  

immrlizard: Harry_Seldon: Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Dear sage, please enlighten us with your words of wisdom. More people die every day in car accidents than die by handgun violence in a year. I guess it is only reasonable to say that getting rid of cars is the natural solution to that. Use your head for something other than a hat rack, guns are nothing but objects. The football player that triggered this outburst wanted his wife dead. If he didn't have access to a gun, there is no doubt he would have used something else. It would be better to get rid of the reason that these people are doing these things rather than the tool they use to do them. Otherwise, they will continue to happen.


We require people to be certified to operate a car. Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.
 
2012-12-03 07:05:22 AM  

Serious Black: immrlizard: Harry_Seldon: Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.

Dear sage, please enlighten us with your words of wisdom. More people die every day in car accidents than die by handgun violence in a year. I guess it is only reasonable to say that getting rid of cars is the natural solution to that. Use your head for something other than a hat rack, guns are nothing but objects. The football player that triggered this outburst wanted his wife dead. If he didn't have access to a gun, there is no doubt he would have used something else. It would be better to get rid of the reason that these people are doing these things rather than the tool they use to do them. Otherwise, they will continue to happen.

We require people to be certified to operate a car. Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.


Vehicles operate on public property and with the constant interaction with other vehicles/drivers. The cost to repair them if a crash occurs is significant. On top of that, the smooth operation of these vehicles on public roads is necessary for the continued financial success of the country. As such, licensing is appropriate. Firearms do not have any of these requirements and would be much more comparable to the other enumerated rights.
 
2012-12-03 07:14:11 AM  

logruszed: Pokey.Clyde: logruszed: Look, I'm a firearms owner o.k. but your comparison is the kind of farktard ammunition people who are absolutely against firearms ownership use as an example of everyone who owns a gun. It's poorly thought out rationalizations like those that make us all look as stupid as you. The NRA currently wants people to believe that any sort of legislation and registration and mandatory training (all of which would actually make them somewhat like cars) would somehow lead to the end of western liberty and civilization.

You're missing one big difference. Driving is a privilege, while gun ownership is a Constitutionally protected right.

If only the framers had figured out the possibility that they might have not had the perfect everlasting solution and left in some way to alter or amend this document.

Because I'm sure people with low population density and muzzle-loading knew ahead of time that walking in to some place like a mall and being able to loose 9 rounds in less time than it took them to reload once was what they were thinking.

Or could you accept that shiat changes? Today isn't then. You can't beat your wife and kids anymore without losing them, you can't own people anymore, you can't shoot savages, etc. On the bright side diphtheria isn't much of an issue any more.


the Idea at the time was to make the citizenry as equipped as the military so that there was an able-bodied gun owner behind every door. The idea that you had to codify into law or explain that firearms are for hunters only is absurd since that is how EVERYONE got their food back in the day.

If you dont like what the 2nd amendment says, change it. That is why we have the process in place.

Serious Black: You're right. I could kill somebody using an Ethernet cord. Or a lawn chair. Or an umbrella. Or insert whatever thing you want to here. The difference is very few of those things were designed with the sole intent of killing another living thing.


There's a reason the old Colt revolver was called the equalizer since it put 60 year old grannies on the same playing field as 22 year old punks. Jovan Belcher would have been intent on killing his girlfriend either way. Guns or no guns, the only thing that might have changed the situation was if she had owned one...but gun-grabbers would rather someone be a victim than step out of line and use a gun to protect His/herself
 
2012-12-03 07:22:06 AM  

Anarchangel: Glorifying gun ownership, however, is ridiculous. You can show a guy getting shot in the farking head on network TV but you can't show a bare female breast without getting fined. You can't say "fark" on a talk show, but we can have 25 cop shows, 10 war movies and a million ads for a first-person shooter video game.


Most people would say that the problem in this is insufficient respect for the first amendment, not too much respect for the second.

Serious Black: Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.


... so? Killing things is a pretty useful function which is in no way sinister or bad in itself, and it in no way indicates any particular danger to people. Given that you were alive at least long enough to learn how to type, you yourself have killed more living things than all guns put together throughout history ever have just in the process of fighting off infections. And you've eaten literally nothing that wasn't a living thing that someone else killed for you.

As for licenses, we do require licenses for the use of guns in ways with a potential to be dangerous to bystanders (concealed carry of handguns for self-defense), just as we only require licensing for vehicles used in ways potentially dangerous to bystanders (you can drive whatever you want on your own property, and certain vehicles with low maximum speeds like farm tractors can be taken on public roads without license). It's pretty internally consistent.
 
2012-12-03 07:22:13 AM  

o5iiawah: Guns or no guns, the only thing that might have changed the situation was if she had owned one...but gun-grabbers would rather someone be a victim than step out of line and use a gun to protect His/herself


What if she didn't want a gun though?
 
2012-12-03 07:25:15 AM  

ronaprhys: Serious Black: We require people to be certified to operate a car. Also, cars were created with a purpose beyond just killing another living thing.

Vehicles operate on public property and with the constant interaction with other vehicles/drivers. The cost to repair them if a crash occurs is significant. On top of that, the smooth operation of these vehicles on public roads is necessary for the continued financial success of the country. As such, licensing is appropriate. Firearms do not have any of these requirements and would be much more comparable to the other enumerated rights.


By that logic, since the smooth functioning of the financial industry is is necessary for economic success and the cost of a bank collapse is obviously massive, we should license day traders and bankers.

o5iiawah:
Serious Black: You're right. I could kill somebody using an Ethernet cord. Or a lawn chair. Or an umbrella. Or insert whatever thing you want to here. The difference is very few of those things were designed with the sole intent of killing another living thing.

There's a reason the old Colt revolver was called the equalizer since it put 60 year old grannies on the same playing field as 22 year old punks. Jovan Belcher would have been intent on killing his girlfriend either way. Guns or no guns, the only thing that might have changed the situation was if she had owned one...but gun-grabbers would rather someone be a victim than step out of line and use a gun to protect His/herself


I thought the point of the 2nd Amendment was to be able to call up a milita at a moment's notice rather than to protect yourself.
 
2012-12-03 07:26:59 AM  

Serious Black: I thought the point of the 2nd Amendment was to be able to call up a milita at a moment's notice rather than to protect yourself.


The point of the Second Amendment is for a lot of people to speculate about it's point as if speculation were fact.
 
2012-12-03 07:28:03 AM  

Rent Party: mediablitz:
Switzerland has one of the highest RIFLE ownership levels, not handguns. And Switzerland has very high domestic violence gun usage stats:

Good reading

Switzerland is trotted out regularly, with people unwilling to look past the basic numbers.

That article says the exact opposite of what you are implying it says. It says Switzerland has one of the lowest homicide rates around (.5 per 100,000), despite easy access to guns. All it says is that 48% of the very few homicides it does have are committed with guns. You will note that means that the majority of the very few homicides in Switzerland are committed with something other than a gun, despite their easy access there.

The problem in American isn't gun violence, it's that we are a violent people.


You seem to have missed the larger point.

Why do the Swiss have guns? Compulsory military service.

What's an important part of the military screening process? Psychological testing.

Thus, in order to receive access to a gun, Swiss citizens must not be mentally unstable. This is called gun control and is one of the two biggest reasons why gun violence per capita is low in Switzerland. The other: ammunition has not been issued as part of the standard equipment since 2008. That also sounds suspiciously like gun control. There's a lot of other factors that also contribute (much better education system, universal healthcare, higher standard of living, etc.), but "having easy access to guns = no murders in Switzerland" is incorrect at best and deliberately misleading for propaganda purposes at worst.
 
2012-12-03 08:00:11 AM  
Oh. Look. A bunch of professional right-wing media hairpieces and sociopaths who manually stimulate themselves to the thought of shooting things are outraged that somebody has an opinion differing from their own. What an absolute shock. It must be sometime between 12:00 AM and 11:59 PM on a day that's part of a week inside of a month that makes up 1/12 of a year.
 
2012-12-03 08:09:08 AM  

SumDumGit: AverageAmericanGuy: Smart, reasonable restrictions on gun access and ownership isn't at odds with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment.

And which political party that you don't like gets to say what those restrictions are? And when they decide to take them away completely? Do you say "No biggie, I didn't need a gun anyway."


which party? both of them. there's no supermajority in either house of congress on the national level and most states that do have one in their state govt are Republican. What makes you think both parties wouldn't have say as to what regulations are put into place? Do you really think that the Dems have total control of govt and are oppressive dictators?
 
2012-12-03 08:11:01 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: There's a time and a place... this was neither.

Classy Bob... classy.


So when is that time and place that it's appropriate to talk about such sacred subjects? People are killed with guns every day in the US.
 
2012-12-03 08:11:37 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Bob Costa's was quoting a local journalist and nothing he said is wrong.

Lots of people needlessly die due to our gun culture. This seems to be an acceptable cost of business as usual in America.



It is an acceptable cost. As any gun enthusiast will tell you: we need to keep and bear arms in case Govt tries to oppress us. Well, they tell you that when they are not talking about how oppressive Govt is.

/waiting for 2Aers to throw off these oppressive Govt shackles
//still waiting
///crickets
 
2012-12-03 08:11:39 AM  
Bob had to say something. This was perfect. He can't just gloss over two murders in his field of work.
There's nothing that's revolutionary in what he said, "this has to stop somehow". Who can argue with that, Idi Amin?
No, so intelligent people know this and move past the violence and the commentary on it.

image2.findagrave.comView Full Size


Is smiling from his grave
 
2012-12-03 08:16:35 AM  

Jim_Callahan: As for licenses, we do require licenses for the use of guns in ways with a potential to be dangerous to bystanders (concealed carry of handguns for self-defense), just as we only require licensing for vehicles used in ways potentially dangerous to bystanders (you can drive whatever you want on your own property, and certain vehicles with low maximum speeds like farm tractors can be taken on public roads without license). It's pretty internally consistent.


to operate a car you must have completed the written test. the eye test and the driving skills test. to the satisfaction of a state examiner and maintain insurance on the vehicles. not to mention passing a bit of a background check with your i.d. check and address check. to get my license I had to prove my d.o.b. all over again this year and have proof of residency. this is after having a license in this same state for over 40 yrs.

getting a gun license is much easier that this.
 
2012-12-03 08:20:14 AM  
But if he didn't have a gun, maybe he would use a knife...

We need more knife control
 
2012-12-03 08:20:36 AM  

fusillade762: Nemo's Brother: Gun ownership in Canada is similar to that of the US.

Not sure if troll or idiot.

Number of guns per capita by country (2007)

United States

Guns per 100
residents - 88.8

Rank - 1


Canada

Guns per 100
residents - 30.8

Rank - 13


I'm an idiot. I assumed something Michale Moore said wasn't a complete lie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_for_Columbine
 
2012-12-03 08:21:13 AM  

HanBammer:
Thus, in order to receive access to a gun, Swiss citizens must not be mentally unstable. This is called gun control and is one of the two biggest reasons why gun violence per capita is low in Switzerland.


Federal law prohibits firearm ownership of any person in the United States who has ever been involuntarily committed to a mental institution or ajudicated mentally defective.

What we don't do is take rights away from people who have done nothing wrong.
 
2012-12-03 08:22:51 AM  
Should we mandate liability insurance for gun owners?
 
2012-12-03 08:23:33 AM  
I don't really get sometimes how people think doing something illegal with a legal object is supposed to be controlled by tighter laws on said legal object. As if breaking the law wasn't something they'd do whether they were legal or illegal.

There will always be people breaking laws. They will steal. They will lie. They might even kill. They will do whatever they think they have to do to get what they think they need, physically or emotionally. And as long as it's physically, humanly possible to do something, people will do it, no matter how many laws or warning labels or legal disclaimers exist.

Legislating against these actions would make Sysiphus himself shake his head at you and tell you it'd never happen.
 
2012-12-03 08:23:37 AM  

tbhouston: But if he didn't have a gun, maybe he would use a knife...

We need more knife control


I knew a State Trooper who owned a lot of guns. The day he murdered his wife, he used a knife though, to make it look like a robbery. He was on duty and they just looked at the radio repeater logs to see his car was not where he said it was and now he is in prison.
 
2012-12-03