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(Daily Kos)   Geitner draws line in sand; Grover threatens Teaparty 2.0. The quickening approaches   (dailykos.com) divider line 282
    More: Interesting, Teaparty, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, Health Care, International, Meet the Press, Candy Crowley, mean business, Grover Norquist, Bush Tax Cuts  
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5540 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Dec 2012 at 7:36 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-02 01:44:14 PM  
Geithner made the Sunday-coddle-Repubs shows (ABC, FOX, NBC, CNN) and said explicitly that the Obama administration's recent offer to Congress was balanced and the fiscally responsible thing to do. He insisted that there HAD to be rate hikes (not some fancy accounting gimmick) on the top 2% before the WH would consider any deal.

Good. Seriously, when did Democrats evolve backbones, anyway?
 
2012-12-02 02:09:12 PM  
the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....
 
2012-12-02 02:31:58 PM  

Bontesla: Geithner made the Sunday-coddle-Repubs shows (ABC, FOX, NBC, CNN) and said explicitly that the Obama administration's recent offer to Congress was balanced and the fiscally responsible thing to do. He insisted that there HAD to be rate hikes (not some fancy accounting gimmick) on the top 2% before the WH would consider any deal.

Good. Seriously, when did Democrats evolve backbones, anyway?


I don't know, but at least they finally did, and picked a pretty good place to finally stand up. If they get an agreement, the rates for the top go up. If they don't, the rates go up anyway, and then Obama can push through the Obama Tax Cuts to restore the old rates that the GOP killed.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-02 02:46:27 PM  

Bontesla: Geithner made the Sunday-coddle-Repubs shows (ABC, FOX, NBC, CNN) and said explicitly that the Obama administration's recent offer to Congress was balanced and the fiscally responsible thing to do. He insisted that there HAD to be rate hikes (not some fancy accounting gimmick) on the top 2% before the WH would consider any deal.

Good. Seriously, when did Democrats evolve backbones, anyway?


Since recently I guess. They seemed to want to go back to being the minority party so they didn't have to actually do anything for the first few years.
 
2012-12-02 02:52:52 PM  

Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....


Well, they lost the presidency. However, they won the majority in the House. So, it does make some sense for the House Representatives to represent the views of the voters who elected them.

Of course, they also appear to have lost the majority of people who voted for House candidates. But that's a minor detail.

A major detail is that unless they can come up with a better offer, the fiscal cliff will raise those taxes anyway, after which the Democrats can try finding enough Republicans willing to settle for pass a bill that lowers taxes just for the sub-250k range, or perhaps just the sub-100k range.
 
2012-12-02 02:54:22 PM  

abb3w: However, they won the majority in the House


Only because of gerrymandering. I think they actually lost the House 'popular vote' if you will.
 
2012-12-02 02:59:22 PM  

Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....


But they didn't lose enough seats in the House to lose their majority or enough in the Senate to prevent a filibuster, therefore America loves Paul Ryan's budget and Sarah Palin is automatically President.

...or something.
 
2012-12-02 03:03:27 PM  

abb3w: Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....

Well, they lost the presidency. However, they won the majority in the House


They LOST seats in the House.
 
2012-12-02 03:06:09 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: abb3w: Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....

Well, they lost the presidency. However, they won the majority in the House

They LOST seats in the House.


just not enough seats to lose their majority...still, their lead is much thinner than it was before, which SHOULD have been a clue for the GOP to rethink their strategy. instead they seem determined to dig in their heels and be more obstructionist than they were before. I don't think that plan is going to be as big a help to them in 2014 as they hope. in fact it might actually hurt them even more than they realize.
 
2012-12-02 03:12:22 PM  

Weaver95: Marcus Aurelius: abb3w: Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....

Well, they lost the presidency. However, they won the majority in the House

They LOST seats in the House.

just not enough seats to lose their majority...still, their lead is much thinner than it was before, which SHOULD have been a clue for the GOP to rethink their strategy. instead they seem determined to dig in their heels and be more obstructionist than they were before. I don't think that plan is going to be as big a help to them in 2014 as they hope. in fact it might actually hurt them even more than they realize.


I think it's finally dawning on them that this president isn't going to surrender again. They're used to bullying to get their way, and when that's your strategy, and it fails, alternatives tend to be few and far in between.
 
2012-12-02 03:38:24 PM  

abb3w: However, they won the majority in the House.

GAT_00: Only because of gerrymandering.


AKA...

abb3w: Of course, they also appear to have lost the majority of people who voted for House candidates.

Though the tendency for blue regions to be more tightly geographically clustered means there's a certain amount of natural gerrymandering.

Marcus Aurelius: They LOST seats in the House.

Weaver95: just not enough seats to lose their majority...


Bingo.

Weaver95: still, their lead is much thinner than it was before, which SHOULD have been a clue for the GOP to rethink their strategy.


More exactly, should have been a clue that if the GOP don't alter their strategy their margin will continue eroding (all the way to "negative margin"). However, many of the GOP seem to think the alteration most likely to improve their electoral prospects would be to double down on the derp.
 
2012-12-02 03:44:59 PM  

abb3w: abb3w: However, they won the majority in the House.
GAT_00: Only because of gerrymandering.

AKA...

abb3w: Of course, they also appear to have lost the majority of people who voted for House candidates.

Though the tendency for blue regions to be more tightly geographically clustered means there's a certain amount of natural gerrymandering.


Ah, my apologies. I was having trouble figuring out what you meant by that sentence. The meaning of that sentence was a little murky.

I think the Democrats need to start making a big push on the state level now. They need governorships, assemblies.
 
2012-12-02 04:07:09 PM  

GAT_00: Ah, my apologies. I was having trouble figuring out what you meant by that sentence. The meaning of that sentence was a little murky.


Yeah; my phrasing tends more than a little odd.

GAT_00: I think the Democrats need to start making a big push on the state level now. They need governorships, assemblies.


More critically, they need their coalition turning out to vote more than just every four years. Assemblies aren't going to be critical until about 2018; for 2014, focus would be best on the House and Senate... though Assemblies are a good prep academy for those.
 
2012-12-02 04:31:19 PM  

Marcus Aurelius:
I think it's finally dawning on them that this president isn't going to surrender again. They're used to bullying to get their way, and when that's your strategy, and it fails, alternatives tend to be few and far in between.


the GOP is very angry they lost, and they don't seem to have an actual leader. right now they're all stumbling around confused, angry and looking for someone to blame for their loss. Romney seems to have evaporated, so they can't really go after him in any satisfying manner. they can try being obstructionist but...again, reality kind of biatch slapped 'em for being jerks in this past election. I suppose they could crawl back to the echo chamber and tell one another comforting lies but that won't get them anywhere.
 
2012-12-02 04:37:13 PM  

Weaver95: Marcus Aurelius: abb3w: Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....

Well, they lost the presidency. However, they won the majority in the House

They LOST seats in the House.

just not enough seats to lose their majority...still, their lead is much thinner than it was before, which SHOULD have been a clue for the GOP to rethink their strategy. instead they seem determined to dig in their heels and be more obstructionist than they were before. I don't think that plan is going to be as big a help to them in 2014 as they hope. in fact it might actually hurt them even more than they realize.


The GOP isn't big on introspection.
 
2012-12-02 04:38:00 PM  

Weaver95: Romney seems to have evaporated


Nah, he's just been busy pumping gas and eating Boston Market.

Hey, he really is just like us!
 
2012-12-02 04:40:31 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....

But they didn't lose enough seats in the House to lose their majority or enough in the Senate to prevent a filibuster, therefore America loves Paul Ryan's budget and Sarah Palin is automatically President.

...or something.


Filibuster rules will probably be changed on the first day of the new Senate next year, especially at this pace of unprecedented ass-kicking the Democrats have been giving. The Democrats have enough votes to change the filibuster rules. Hopefully they won't just go slink in a corner.
 
2012-12-02 04:41:49 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Weaver95: Romney seems to have evaporated

Nah, he's just been busy pumping gas and eating Boston Market.

Hey, he really is just like us!


He puts his magic underwear on one leg at a time.
 
2012-12-02 04:45:13 PM  

trivial use of my dark powers:
The GOP isn't big on introspection.


I think one of the things that's driving the GOP nuts right now is that they're being forced to confront the reasons for their electoral ass beating. that's why we're seeing all this rage from the GOP leadership - they're digging in their heels not so much because they dislike Obama's plan but because they really don't know what else to do right now. so they're gonna bunker down and try to make the hurting stop for a bit.
 
2012-12-02 04:50:39 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Lionel Mandrake: Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....

But they didn't lose enough seats in the House to lose their majority or enough in the Senate to prevent a filibuster, therefore America loves Paul Ryan's budget and Sarah Palin is automatically President.

...or something.

Filibuster rules will probably be changed on the first day of the new Senate next year, especially at this pace of unprecedented ass-kicking the Democrats have been giving. The Democrats have enough votes to change the filibuster rules. Hopefully they won't just go slink in a corner.


Reid has been making noises about it, and he rarely makes a public statement that he doesn't intend to carry through. If he says it on TV, there's an incredibly good chance he's going to do it if possible.
 
2012-12-02 05:24:45 PM  

GAT_00: ecmoRandomNumbers: Lionel Mandrake: Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....

But they didn't lose enough seats in the House to lose their majority or enough in the Senate to prevent a filibuster, therefore America loves Paul Ryan's budget and Sarah Palin is automatically President.

...or something.

Filibuster rules will probably be changed on the first day of the new Senate next year, especially at this pace of unprecedented ass-kicking the Democrats have been giving. The Democrats have enough votes to change the filibuster rules. Hopefully they won't just go slink in a corner.

Reid has been making noises about it, and he rarely makes a public statement that he doesn't intend to carry through. If he says it on TV, there's an incredibly good chance he's going to do it if possible.


Oh please...oh please...
 
2012-12-02 05:28:06 PM  

trivial use of my dark powers: The GOP isn't big on introspection.


More to the point, they're not big on empiricism. They're too wedded to their principles rather than practicalities. Thus, their position shifts are based on what changes they think the important part of the electorate SHOULD respond to net-favorably, rather than on considering how the overall electorate WILL respond.

Which is a possible design choice. We'll see how it works out for them, and for the country.

ecmoRandomNumbers: Filibuster rules will probably be changed on the first day of the new Senate next year, especially at this pace of unprecedented ass-kicking the Democrats have been giving. The Democrats have enough votes to change the filibuster rules. Hopefully they won't just go slink in a corner.


With luck, he'll do something modest, which will continue allowing it when the minority is genuinely upset, but that will result in continuing a filibuster by the minority requiring effort much nearer to equal of the majority's effort to oppose it. Right now it practically only requires two opponents to sustain a filibuster, but 49 to oppose it. (One opponent to speak, one to second any motion for quorum count that the speaking opponent makes; 49 to make sure there's a quorum despite this.) In practice, this means the threat is all it takes to effect the filibuster.
 
2012-12-02 06:07:45 PM  

Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....


I don't see the reality sinking in for them until Jan 20, 2013. Then of course the reality will probably still elude them.
Their all still busy pointing fingers at everyone but themselves and their failed policies.
 
2012-12-02 06:55:54 PM  
I don't understand how the Republicans can think they're bargaining from a position of strength

/I mean, if they want cuts, all they have to do is... well, what they've always done; nothing
 
2012-12-02 06:57:37 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-02 07:02:20 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I don't understand how the Republicans can think they're bargaining from a position of strength


Since the last debt ceiling deal, Obama framed this as a long game that would end before his Presidency ended, whether re-elected or not. And his people set this up to break the back of the House Republicans by forcing them into this situation where saving their asses was dependent on reaching an agreement with the President. Of course they are trying to use image to project strength. 'Image' is all their base understands.
 
2012-12-02 07:08:46 PM  

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 425x280]


Awesome

*right click...save as...* 
 
2012-12-02 07:16:16 PM  
Tell me how the Republicans have not compromised. "Paying any taxes at all" was the compromise. It's now time for Taxbongo to stop being a baby and impeach himself.
 
2012-12-02 07:35:23 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Tell me how the Republicans have not compromised. "Paying any taxes at all" was the compromise. It's now time for Taxbongo to stop being a baby and impeach himself.


The Republicans should be called "The Honeydrippers" because they always want to

"impeach the President"
 
2012-12-02 07:40:35 PM  
Tea Party 2.0 won't show up until the next census.
 
2012-12-02 07:44:35 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Filibuster rules will probably be changed on the first day of the new Senate next year


Pretty sure the Republicans have already threatened that if this happens they will respond by becoming completely obstructive, as opposed to the current situation where they are only almost completely obstructive.
 
2012-12-02 07:45:13 PM  
There isn't any way for the Republicans to win. Either way, the Bush tax cuts are gone for the top two percent. If they let everyone go over the fiscal cliff, the Democrats will just try to get tax cuts passed for the upper-middle and middle-classes, and the Republicans will have to either stand in the way of those in order to get tax cuts back for the top two percent (and thus maybe do enough damage already to keep the Senate in D hands in 2014) or go along with what the Ds want anyway.

In other words, these dolts went all in and lost. It's fantastic political theater AND the right thing for our country to do - a rare win-win.
 
2012-12-02 07:45:47 PM  
Teaparty 2.0, made up entirely of people who use AOL 3.0
 
2012-12-02 07:47:18 PM  
How on Earth can they pull off a Tea Party 2.0? Haven't they run out of elderly low information white voters who hate the president for being a Kenyan Muslim Marxist?

Unless they're figuring out a way to bring the Stormfront crowd into the mainstream of the Republican Party.
 
2012-12-02 07:49:38 PM  
www.gagdonkey.com
 
2012-12-02 07:50:36 PM  

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 425x280]


I like the way the nut in that picture looks really orange.
 
2012-12-02 07:52:13 PM  

Bontesla: Geithner made the Sunday-coddle-Repubs shows (ABC, FOX, NBC, CNN) and said explicitly that the Obama administration's recent offer to Congress was balanced and the fiscally responsible thing to do. He insisted that there HAD to be rate hikes (not some fancy accounting gimmick) on the top 2% before the WH would consider any deal.

Good. Seriously, when did Democrats evolve backbones, anyway?


He really wasn't taking any of Chris Wallace's shiat this morning, which was fun. Then they had Boehner, who appeared to be drunk.
 
2012-12-02 07:53:08 PM  
My vote for a Geitner versus Norquist battle would be with double-bitted lumberjack axes while standing 6' deep in a moving river; but if the Democrats really do maintain their spine this time, this'll do, pig, this'll do.
 
2012-12-02 07:53:26 PM  

GAT_00: Bontesla: Geithner made the Sunday-coddle-Repubs shows (ABC, FOX, NBC, CNN) and said explicitly that the Obama administration's recent offer to Congress was balanced and the fiscally responsible thing to do. He insisted that there HAD to be rate hikes (not some fancy accounting gimmick) on the top 2% before the WH would consider any deal.

Good. Seriously, when did Democrats evolve backbones, anyway?

I don't know, but at least they finally did, and picked a pretty good place to finally stand up. If they get an agreement, the rates for the top go up. If they don't, the rates go up anyway, and then Obama can push through the Obama Tax Cuts to restore the old rates that the GOP killed.


Here's the thing. If the GOP refuses to budge, taxes will go up for everyone as the 10% and 25% tax rates will go away If the Dems get what they want - tax hikes for the top 2% - net taxes for the rich will still be lower than if none of the tax cuts are enacted as the 10% and 25% tax rates are still in place.
 
2012-12-02 07:56:13 PM  
TG: If Republicans are not willing to let rates go back up (on the 2%) and we think they should go back to the Clinton levels when the American economy did exceptionally well, then there will NOT be an agreement

*drops mic walks off stage*

3219a2.medialib.glogster.com

This is a throwdown.
 
2012-12-02 07:56:42 PM  
why is the right beholden to s farking lobbyist?
 
2012-12-02 07:57:56 PM  
Republicans can either make a deal now, and have taxes on the richest only go up - or not make a deal and have taxes for everyone go up.

And then, for extra trolling by Obama, after they decided to go with #2, they'll either have to vote for the Obama tax cuts, or explain how cutting taxes is now suddenly bad only because it was proposed by a democrat.
 
2012-12-02 07:58:07 PM  
Tea Party 2.0? 

i1134.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-02 07:58:15 PM  
One wonders if the GOP "plan" is simply to blow up the economy out of spite. The American people didn't vote for their guy, so it's time for revenge.
 
2012-12-02 07:58:38 PM  
Teaparty 2.0 Now with TWICE the extra chromosomes!
 
2012-12-02 08:00:41 PM  

ultraholland: why is the right beholden to s farking lobbyist 12-year old's mastabatory economic theory?

 
2012-12-02 08:00:54 PM  

ultraholland: why is the right beholden to s farking lobbyist?


He's only one of many they're beholden to.
 
2012-12-02 08:01:56 PM  

Weaver95: the GOP still hasn't accepted the fact that they LOST the election....


As I said last night, elections have consequences, biatches.
 
2012-12-02 08:03:25 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: They LOST seats in the House.


I read an article last night that said "Democrats failed to hold the House."

LOLspin. You can't "hold" something you didn't have, dumbasses.
 
2012-12-02 08:05:27 PM  

Whiskey Pete: Teaparty 2.0 Now with TWICE the extra chromosomes!


Two chromosomes too many?

De-evolution is real!

www.portlandmercury.com

We can't say we weren't warned about this.
 
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