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(Computerworld)   Upgrading RAM on the new iMac? Yeah, good luck with THAT   (computerworld.com) divider line 129
    More: Stupid, iMac  
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8382 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Dec 2012 at 4:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-02 02:21:21 PM  
Apple could solder chips onto the board so users won't be tempted to mess around.
 
2012-12-02 02:33:49 PM  
Why can't you just be happy they allow you to buy their product?
 
2012-12-02 02:40:27 PM  
I work with Macs at work but I never owned one. I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to tinker with an Apple product like you can with a PC. For one they make it difficult and I never really knew a Mac user who wanted to try to. For them it's easier just to buy the next version.
 
2012-12-02 03:02:00 PM  
Yeah, they solder that shiat in on other models. 'Cause it's Apple. We nerds have been trying to tell you people this shiat for years but only now when the full terror has come to pass do you see. Good luck and thanks for all the phish.
 
2012-12-02 03:11:01 PM  
In this case I believe it is a matter of form. With how thin the new iMac has become, they had to make a LOT of room to make it happen. It is about space saving measures for this one.
 
2012-12-02 04:10:05 PM  
Is anyone buying an Imac really using it for anything that demands more than 8GB of RAM?
 
2012-12-02 04:14:43 PM  
I was always under the impression that if you were buying an iMac that you weren't planning on upgrading much of anything. It's a good machine for people who only surf the web and use it for writing papers, it's not designed for gaming or any sort of CAD/3D work.
 
2012-12-02 04:18:14 PM  

discount sushi: I was always under the impression that if you were buying an iMac that you weren't planning on upgrading much of anything. It's a good machine for people who only surf the web and use it for writing papers, it's not designed for gaming or any sort of CAD/3D work.


yes but this also limits self repair of the unit. what if a ram chip goes dead and you want to swap it out yourself down the line?
 
2012-12-02 04:19:41 PM  

discount sushi: I was always under the impression that if you were buying an iMac that you weren't planning on upgrading much of anything. It's a good machine for people who only surf the web and use it for writing papers, it's not designed for gaming or any sort of CAD/3D work.


You have the wrong impression.

High-end iMac's are gaming beasts. The latest release for the high end has a bad-ass Ivy-bridge processor with a nVidia GeForce GT680MX
 
2012-12-02 04:21:25 PM  
I would expect those that buy Apple understand the path to upgrade is to buy the next model.

/not an Apple hater
//not an Apple owner
 
2012-12-02 04:24:51 PM  
Mugato: I work with Macs at work but I never owned one. I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to tinker with an Apple product like you can with a PC. For one they make it difficult

This is about them making it even more difficult.

They are now gluing parts together. So if you take it apart to upgrade the ram, you're going to have to glue it together again.
 
2012-12-02 04:27:52 PM  
Also, if you've never read an ifixit teardown, they're hilarious at times (especially if you open the images they link to).


We begin to strum away at the adhesive holding the display assembly in place.

s3-ec.buzzfed.com

Unlike in the previous iMac, this display is held in place with more than magnets.

To our dismay, we're forced to break out our heat gun and guitar picks to get past the adhesive holding the display down.

guide-images.ifixit.net
 
2012-12-02 04:30:08 PM  
All of the disadvantages of a laptop, in a desktop.
 
2012-12-02 04:43:14 PM  
Repo Man: All of the disadvantages of a laptop, in a desktop.

Nahh, you can actually still take a laptop apart and repair it.
 
2012-12-02 04:43:57 PM  

cman: The latest release for the high end has a bad-ass Ivy-bridge processor with a nVidia GeForce GT680MX


That's still a mobile chip running a display at twice the resolution of normal monitors. Hardly beastly.
 
2012-12-02 04:44:30 PM  

lordargent: Repo Man: All of the disadvantages of a laptop, in a desktop.

Nahh, you can actually still take a laptop apart and repair it.


lol
 
2012-12-02 04:48:36 PM  

Lsherm: cman: The latest release for the high end has a bad-ass Ivy-bridge processor with a nVidia GeForce GT680MX

That's still a mobile chip running a display at twice the resolution of normal monitors. Hardly beastly.


How would you know?

Ich bin ein Apfeller
 
2012-12-02 04:50:25 PM  

Repo Man: All of the disadvantages of a laptop, in a desktop in enlarged laptop.

 
2012-12-02 04:53:53 PM  

lordargent: Repo Man: All of the disadvantages of a laptop, in a desktop.

Nahh, you can actually still take a laptop apart and repair it.


Not Apple laptops. The current run of MacBooks do not have user accessible batteries or RAM, I understand. I'm not sure about the hard drive. I love my MacBook, but that concerns me. In the four years I've been using this, I've replaced the battery and doubled the RAM. I'm not a tinkerer, but I do like having options.
 
2012-12-02 05:01:17 PM  
I bought the last MacBook before they went all-aluminum. I have 2 batteries for it, and am already in need of a third, as my batteries only last about 3.5 hours now. I'd be screwed if I had the aluminum one.
 
2012-12-02 05:01:59 PM  
For most people, 8GB is plenty of RAM for the life of the computer. If you need 16GB RAM, and you can afford an iMac, you will pay for it.

As far as repairs go, Apple has a solid warranty program, and fixed price for non-warranty repairs.

My point is that few people go into buying these products having the expectations to tinker with these computers.
 
2012-12-02 05:06:25 PM  

bobtheallmighty: discount sushi: I was always under the impression that if you were buying an iMac that you weren't planning on upgrading much of anything. It's a good machine for people who only surf the web and use it for writing papers, it's not designed for gaming or any sort of CAD/3D work.

yes but this also limits self repair of the unit. what if a ram chip goes dead and you want to swap it out yourself down the line?


I did IT for 15 years, and worked on thousands of computers. During that time, I found ONE bad stick of ram.
 
2012-12-02 05:06:28 PM  

StingerJ: lordargent: Repo Man: All of the disadvantages of a laptop, in a desktop.

Nahh, you can actually still take a laptop apart and repair it.

Not Apple laptops. The current run of MacBooks do not have user accessible batteries or RAM, I understand. I'm not sure about the hard drive. I love my MacBook, but that concerns me. In the four years I've been using this, I've replaced the battery and doubled the RAM. I'm not a tinkerer, but I do like having options.


I've got a new MacBook, and I'm not terribly concerned. I'll save my tinkering for my desktop - I'd rather have the laptop be lighter and smaller, and that can best be accomplished by removing compartments for removable components that require significant structural strengthening.
 
2012-12-02 05:09:23 PM  

cman: In this case I believe it is a matter of form. With how thin the new iMac has become, they had to make a LOT of room to make it happen. It is about space saving measures for this one.


My laptop is thinner than the iMac, but accessing the drive and RAM is a matter of a few small screws and a plate. The motivation I believe is to encourage users to simply upgrade to the newest model. Their handhelds don't even have SD expansion slots like every Android, non-Apple tablet, and most modern standalone mp3 players have so users can easily and cheaply upgrade when they run out of space. An SD card at Amazon is like tree-fiddy.

On the other hand, nearly every Mac user I know wouldn't know a stick of ram from a stick of dynamite, so it's a non-issue for them. Still, the option would be nice. It's very condescending that the options aren't there.
 
2012-12-02 05:11:06 PM  

Harry_Seldon: For most people, 8GB is plenty of RAM for the life of the computer. If you need 16GB RAM, and you can afford an iMac, you will pay for it.

As far as repairs go, Apple has a solid warranty program, and fixed price for non-warranty repairs.

My point is that few people go into buying these products having the expectations to tinker with these computers.


It's that attitude that has the masses thinking that adding RAM is tinkering. The stuff is cheap off the shelf hardware. You just click it into place in any normal PC. Normally nothing else needs to be done. Apple goes far out of their way to keep RAM from being upgraded to prevent you from putting in 3rd party RAM. It's anti-competitive and they deserve a class action suit against them.
 
2012-12-02 05:12:05 PM  
StingerJ: Not Apple laptops. The current run of MacBooks do not have user accessible batteries or RAM,

Well there you go ... all of the disadvantages of an apple laptop in an apple desktop :D

ecmoRandomNumbers: I bought the last MacBook before they went all-aluminum. I have 2 batteries for it, and am already in need of a third, as my batteries only last about 3.5 hours now.

3.5 hours, man, back in my days, we were happy to get an hour of battery life out of a fresh laptop battery. And the batteries weighed about 10 pounds each, and we had to carry them uphill through the snow both ways. And the CPU generated so much heat that even after the machine was shut off, the residual heat would melt the snow on the sidewalk as we went home.
 
2012-12-02 05:24:20 PM  

cman: discount sushi: I was always under the impression that if you were buying an iMac that you weren't planning on upgrading much of anything. It's a good machine for people who only surf the web and use it for writing papers, it's not designed for gaming or any sort of CAD/3D work.

You have the wrong impression.

High-end iMac's are gaming beasts. The latest release for the high end has a bad-ass Ivy-bridge processor with a nVidia GeForce GT680MX




You have no idea what your talking about.
 
2012-12-02 05:24:48 PM  

StingerJ: lordargent: Repo Man: All of the disadvantages of a laptop, in a desktop.

Nahh, you can actually still take a laptop apart and repair it.

Not Apple laptops. The current run of MacBooks do not have user accessible batteries or RAM, I understand. I'm not sure about the hard drive. I love my MacBook, but that concerns me. In the four years I've been using this, I've replaced the battery and doubled the RAM. I'm not a tinkerer, but I do like having options.


When you buy something that's super-form factor, micro-weighted, etc, what else do people really expect? You don't buy something like an Iproduct air, and plan on doing stuff to it. You buy it because it's -3 lbs and 'just works' and is shiney aluminiumtine.

The rest of us get Dell 5 lbs hosebeasts who you can throw down a flight of Octomom's waffling ovaries and still function after swapping out batteries.
 
2012-12-02 05:30:17 PM  

Russ1642: Apple goes far out of their way to keep RAM from being upgraded to prevent you from putting in 3rd party RAM. It's anti-competitive and they deserve a class action suit against them.


No, it is the aggressively thin industrial design which was the key goal which makes end user upgrades more difficult to engineer in this package.
 
2012-12-02 05:36:46 PM  

AcneVulgaris: I did IT for 15 years, and worked on thousands of computers. During that time, I found ONE bad stick of ram.


Maybe you're just really bad at identifying bad RAM.

Did you ever think of that Mr. Smartypants?
 
2012-12-02 05:38:38 PM  

Harry_Seldon: Russ1642: Apple goes far out of their way to keep RAM from being upgraded to prevent you from putting in 3rd party RAM. It's anti-competitive and they deserve a class action suit against them.

No, it is the aggressively thin industrial design which was the key goal which makes end user upgrades more difficult to engineer in this package.



Someone who I know who was enamored with the design suddenly changed his mind about when someone else asked "When was the last time you looked at the back or the side of your desktop computer?"
 
2012-12-02 05:42:40 PM  
The ungainly huge 27" imacs have user-accessible ram.

Good thing my 2007 imac is still working well, because the new imacs do not float my boat:

* no DVD drive, which i still use
* no user-accessible ram
* who really cares how thin it is -- it's a desktop
* teeny-tiny keyboard that doesn't have a number pad
* only 512M video ram. Seriously. it's 2012 guys.

Grumble. Love macs & osx. But the mini is underpowered, the new imacs lackluster, and the pro non-existent.

When it's new computer time, I might just *shudder* build a hackintosh.
 
2012-12-02 05:43:47 PM  
This product is different, and I dislike this.
 
2012-12-02 05:49:14 PM  

cman: discount sushi: I was always under the impression that if you were buying an iMac that you weren't planning on upgrading much of anything. It's a good machine for people who only surf the web and use it for writing papers, it's not designed for gaming or any sort of CAD/3D work.

You have the wrong impression.

High-end iMac's are gaming beasts. The latest release for the high end has a bad-ass Ivy-bridge processor with a nVidia GeForce GT680MX


This article is about the 21.5-in. iMac, not the 27" which has user replaceable RAM and the nicer graphics processor.
 
2012-12-02 05:55:09 PM  

cman: Lsherm: cman: The latest release for the high end has a bad-ass Ivy-bridge processor with a nVidia GeForce GT680MX

That's still a mobile chip running a display at twice the resolution of normal monitors. Hardly beastly.

How would you know?

Ich bin ein Apfeller


Oh BURN!

... But seriously, that's all you got? That retort was so bad, it gave me cancer.
 
2012-12-02 05:59:26 PM  

kroonermanblack: When you buy something that's super-form factor, micro-weighted, etc, what else do people really expect? You don't buy something like an Iproduct air, and plan on doing stuff to it. You buy it because it's -3 lbs and 'just works' and is shiney aluminiumtine.


Is that a real material, or something out of the Marvel universe?

But really, one of the jobs of journalism is to point this sort of thing out. Not exactly to say "this shiat is evil", but to highlight the downsides.

Personally, I couldn't care too much about memory. Things like sticking a monitor + PC together so you have to pay for an expensive repair rather than just throwing out the monitor concern me more.
 
2012-12-02 06:08:59 PM  

farkeruk: kroonermanblack: When you buy something that's super-form factor, micro-weighted, etc, what else do people really expect? You don't buy something like an Iproduct air, and plan on doing stuff to it. You buy it because it's -3 lbs and 'just works' and is shiney aluminiumtine.

Is that a real material, or something out of the Marvel universe?

But really, one of the jobs of journalism is to point this sort of thing out. Not exactly to say "this shiat is evil", but to highlight the downsides.

Personally, I couldn't care too much about memory. Things like sticking a monitor + PC together so you have to pay for an expensive repair rather than just throwing out the monitor concern me more.


That's how it is when you value style over substance.
 
2012-12-02 06:11:19 PM  
I don't see why anyone is biatching about this. You're paying for a shiny plastic case, not ease of upgrading.

By the time you want more ram, they'll have a whole new iMac out and you'll HAVE to have it anyway.

/Apple knows their target market quite well
 
2012-12-02 06:12:19 PM  
I have been using a Mac since the SE30, and even then, me or my dad would buy extra 3rd party RAM and "install it" ourselves. I can't even change an oil filter, yet RAM is the easiest farking thing in the world to swap yourself. Every single Mac, desktop or laptop, I've ever owned, I buy extra RAM and install it myself. This might be then end of it, and I've been using Macs for 25+ years. That, and the slow dissolution of Mac OS into iOS, is making me sad. I knew dropping the Computer from the company name was a harbinger of doom.
 
2012-12-02 06:15:11 PM  

AcneVulgaris: bobtheallmighty: discount sushi: I was always under the impression that if you were buying an iMac that you weren't planning on upgrading much of anything. It's a good machine for people who only surf the web and use it for writing papers, it's not designed for gaming or any sort of CAD/3D work.

yes but this also limits self repair of the unit. what if a ram chip goes dead and you want to swap it out yourself down the line?

I did IT for 15 years, and worked on thousands of computers. During that time, I found ONE bad stick of ram.


I'm IT now for 5 years, worked on hundreds of machines... Bad RAM sticks crop up often. It's easier to see when you can poll the sticks for their hard error counts, and they're ECC. And yes, all manufacturers have parts that fail.
 
2012-12-02 06:28:02 PM  

bobtheallmighty: discount sushi: I was always under the impression that if you were buying an iMac that you weren't planning on upgrading much of anything. It's a good machine for people who only surf the web and use it for writing papers, it's not designed for gaming or any sort of CAD/3D work.

yes but this also limits self repair of the unit. what if a ram chip goes dead and you want to swap it out yourself down the line?


Eh not too hard to do BGA if you get the practice in and have the machine. What might change Apple's mind is if they get a HUGE batch of bad chips and they're mixed in with good chips. Like one machine is pumping out 100% bad chips but the other 4 in the room pump out good chips. Similar serials, similar date stamps...might be hard to pick out the bad ones. So out of 4-8 chips you've got a single bad one and have to swap them all.

They could either replace every Mac made with these chips, if it can be determined which are bad based upon the Mac they are in, or learn that the extra 20 cents for some DIMM slots is a good idea for all involved.
 
2012-12-02 06:30:02 PM  

snowshovel: Someone who I know who was enamored with the design suddenly changed his mind about when someone else asked "When was the last time you looked at the back or the side of your desktop computer?"


You know what's really hilarious? It's definitely true that in the vast majority of cases, you never look at the back or side of a desktop computer. Guess what one of the exceptions is? The stupid imacs, because the *insist* on continuing to put every single port on the back instead of the sides, apart from two usb ports on the keyboard. That includes the headphone jack. I have a... last? (not sure) generation imac on my desk at work, and I have to slide the damn thing out from its cubby and turn it halfway around multiple times a day, because I can't plug/unplug my headphones otherwise and because any usb drive that's even slightly thicker than the physical usb jack won't fit into the keyboard ports. It's really annoying.
 
2012-12-02 06:36:37 PM  

MuonNeutrino: I have a... last? (not sure) generation imac on my desk at work, and I have to slide the damn thing out from its cubby and turn it halfway around multiple times a day, because I can't plug/unplug my headphones otherwise and because any usb drive that's even slightly thicker than the physical usb jack won't fit into the keyboard ports. It's really annoying.


You might want to look into getting a USB hub and headphone extension cable if it is causing you that much distress.
 
2012-12-02 06:45:05 PM  

Mugato: I work with Macs at work but I never owned one. I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to tinker with an Apple product like you can with a PC. For one they make it difficult and I never really knew a Mac user who wanted to try to. For them it's easier just to buy the next version.


I upgraded the RAM for my mom's old iMac years ago. Impossible? No. A gigantic pain in the ass? Definitely.
 
2012-12-02 06:49:04 PM  

APE992: They could either replace every Mac made with these chips, if it can be determined which are bad based upon the Mac they are in, or learn that the extra 20 cents for some DIMM slots is a good idea for all involved.


There are DIMM slots. It's not about cost savings for not including them. The issue is that if you add a door or compartment, it's going to require some structural bracing around the opening, and they decided that the thin and seamless form factor was more important.

That said, unlike the laptop:

Tax Boy: * who really cares how thin it is -- it's a desktop


That, so what exactly was wrong with the old 1-inch thick iMac?
 
2012-12-02 06:53:11 PM  

fusillade762: Mugato: I work with Macs at work but I never owned one. I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to tinker with an Apple product like you can with a PC. For one they make it difficult and I never really knew a Mac user who wanted to try to. For them it's easier just to buy the next version.

I upgraded the RAM for my mom's old iMac years ago. Impossible? No. A gigantic pain in the ass? Definitely.


The last couple of generations were actually really easy. Open the bottom hatch, pop in memory, and you are good. The 27" had four slots so you could pile in the RAM pretty cheaply. My 2009 model 27" has 16 GB of RAM, which cost me a whopping $60 at the time I added it.
 
2012-12-02 07:10:14 PM  

Mad_Radhu: fusillade762: Mugato: I work with Macs at work but I never owned one. I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to tinker with an Apple product like you can with a PC. For one they make it difficult and I never really knew a Mac user who wanted to try to. For them it's easier just to buy the next version.

I upgraded the RAM for my mom's old iMac years ago. Impossible? No. A gigantic pain in the ass? Definitely.

The last couple of generations were actually really easy. Open the bottom hatch, pop in memory, and you are good. The 27" had four slots so you could pile in the RAM pretty cheaply. My 2009 model 27" has 16 GB of RAM, which cost me a whopping $60 at the time I added it.


And the 27" model still does. I don't know why anyone expects so much from a very basic, entry level consumer device. Think of it like a home theater in a box vs having a traditional setup. It's for a different subset of consumers that want to open the box, plug it in, and not tweak anything. The 27" gets 4 RAM slots, a gaming capable graphics card, and faster CPU.
 
2012-12-02 07:23:50 PM  
discount sushi: And the 27" model still does. I don't know why anyone expects so much from a very basic, entry level consumer device.

It's $1200

Which is more than what it cost to buy/build my core i7 box (12GB of ram, 60GB SSD, 3x500GB HDs and a pair of 22" LCDs), and I built this thing about ~2.5-3 years ago, it would be much cheaper to replicate it now.

I know technically it's the entry level for that product line, but I sort of expect more for my $1200 than a thinner case and a stylish design and I don't have a deficit of space under my desk so.

// need to upgrade to 1TB drives, thinking of rolling my own NAS.
 
2012-12-02 07:24:58 PM  

Mad_Radhu: fusillade762: Mugato: I work with Macs at work but I never owned one. I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to tinker with an Apple product like you can with a PC. For one they make it difficult and I never really knew a Mac user who wanted to try to. For them it's easier just to buy the next version.

I upgraded the RAM for my mom's old iMac years ago. Impossible? No. A gigantic pain in the ass? Definitely.

The last couple of generations were actually really easy. Open the bottom hatch, pop in memory, and you are good. The 27" had four slots so you could pile in the RAM pretty cheaply. My 2009 model 27" has 16 GB of RAM, which cost me a whopping $60 at the time I added it.


For whatever reason that wasn't the case with my mom's. It required almost completely disassembling the damn thing to get to the RAM slots.
 
2012-12-02 07:27:38 PM  
discount sushi : And the 27" model still does. I don't know why anyone expects so much from a very basic, entry level consumer device. Think of it like a home theater in a box vs having a traditional setup. It's for a different subset of consumers that want to open the box, plug it in, and not tweak anything. The 27" gets 4 RAM slots, a gaming capable graphics card, and faster CPU.

Also in your analogy.

Compared to a traditional setup, the home theatre in a box tends to be smaller, lighter on options and features, but it's easier to set up and also cheaper.

cheaper
 
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