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(The Newspaper)   Washington voters may get the right to vote on the right to vote on red light cameras   (thenewspaper.com) divider line 62
    More: PSA, red light cameras, speed cameras, Tim Eyman, formal organization  
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1054 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Dec 2012 at 4:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-02 04:16:18 PM  
*scans headline* 

t.qkme.me
 
2012-12-02 05:08:10 PM  
Oh, red light cameras. I thought, well never mind. I wont be moving back to Tacoma after all.
 
2012-12-02 05:14:26 PM  
Automated fine machines like red light camera ticketing scams are a cash cow that cash strapped local government/LEOs the world over are looking at and trying to implement where ever they can.

Generally over the sounds of mass wailing and gnashing of many teeth.

They are an abomination upon this earth and should not be tolerated.

/Ya wanna give me a ticket?
//Do it in person or GTFO.
 
2012-12-02 05:17:01 PM  

quatchi: Automated fine machines like red light camera ticketing scams are a cash cow that cash strapped local government/LEOs the world over are looking at and trying to implement where ever they can.

Generally over the sounds of mass wailing and gnashing of many teeth.

They are an abomination upon this earth and should not be tolerated.

/Ya wanna give me a ticket?
//Do it in person or GTFO.


How about you don't run red lights?
 
2012-12-02 05:17:54 PM  

a_bilge_monkey: Oh, red light cameras. I thought, well never mind. I wont be moving back to Tacoma after all.


I can't imagine any set of circumstances that would lead a reasonable person consider moving to Tacoma the first time, much less moving back.
 
2012-12-02 05:18:26 PM  
DC has a ton of cameras, it's a huge cash machine for the city. They made so much money last year off of them that the city council decided to lower fines and up the speed limits on certain roads. It's not like DCPD really enforced traffic laws much in the first place.
 
2012-12-02 05:18:33 PM  
I wonder what people hate more. Red light cameras or the cops they replaced.
 
2012-12-02 05:19:50 PM  
The proposal also extends the deadline for completing the signature gathering process from ten to sixteen months after filing.

Ah, so this is really about Eyman making it easier to get initiatives on the ballot so that he can make more money pushing stupid initiatives.
 
2012-12-02 05:21:06 PM  
You guys know how you feel when you hear poutrage about health insurance, birth control, and religious freedom?

*holding up mirror*
 
2012-12-02 05:21:09 PM  

Happy Hours: quatchi: Automated fine machines like red light camera ticketing scams are a cash cow that cash strapped local government/LEOs the world over are looking at and trying to implement where ever they can.

Generally over the sounds of mass wailing and gnashing of many teeth.

They are an abomination upon this earth and should not be tolerated.

/Ya wanna give me a ticket?
//Do it in person or GTFO.

How about you don't run red lights?


Yeah, kinda this. Red light cameras offend me greatly, but not as much as assholes who run red lights. I'm going to have to indulge in some situational ethics here.
 
2012-12-02 05:23:32 PM  

Happy Hours: How about you don't run red lights?


I don't. The cameras get you when you're waiting at a green light to turn left as a rule. That's not running a red light.
 
2012-12-02 05:29:54 PM  

BMulligan: a_bilge_monkey: Oh, red light cameras. I thought, well never mind. I wont be moving back to Tacoma after all.

I can't imagine any set of circumstances that would lead a reasonable person consider moving to Tacoma the first time, much less moving back.


They're a gang member.
 
2012-12-02 05:35:42 PM  

Summoner101: BMulligan: a_bilge_monkey: Oh, red light cameras. I thought, well never mind. I wont be moving back to Tacoma after all.

I can't imagine any set of circumstances that would lead a reasonable person consider moving to Tacoma the first time, much less moving back.

They're a gang member.


I stand corrected.
 
2012-12-02 05:36:45 PM  
Be careful, Washington. This is how California got so farked up. We made the initiative process more binding, just as you are about to do, because our government was telling us to fark off when the majority demanded something, just like what happened to you. Now every stupid idea imaginable becomes and initiative and usually passes because the average voter is a moron and doesn't read the damn things.

The road to hell, good intentions, we're farked.
 
2012-12-02 05:42:58 PM  

OgreMagi: Be careful, Washington. This is how California got so farked up. We made the initiative process more binding, just as you are about to do, because our government was telling us to fark off when the majority demanded something, just like what happened to you. Now every stupid idea imaginable becomes and initiative and usually passes because the average voter is a moron and doesn't read the damn things.

The road to hell, good intentions, we're farked.


I don't often agree with you, but when you're right, you're right. The thing is that any Washingtonian not in the thrall of Tim Eyman ought to know this by now.
 
2012-12-02 05:48:03 PM  
Initiative mastermind Tim Eyman,

LOL now I've got a good reason to vote against it.

Stupid teabagger bullshiat.
 
2012-12-02 05:50:10 PM  

BMulligan: a_bilge_monkey: Oh, red light cameras. I thought, well never mind. I wont be moving back to Tacoma after all.

I can't imagine any set of circumstances that would lead a reasonable person consider moving to Tacoma the first time, much less moving back.


I did not move, I was moved.
 
2012-12-02 05:52:38 PM  
I voted for red light cameras last time it was on the ballot. City governments need the money and I don't run red lights. I don't think it passed though. Direct democracy sucks.

And Tim Eyman sucks even more.
 
2012-12-02 05:57:40 PM  

a_bilge_monkey: Oh, red light cameras. I thought, well never mind. I wont be moving back to Tacoma Fife after all.

 
2012-12-02 06:01:18 PM  

whidbey: a_bilge_monkey: Oh, red light cameras. I thought, well never mind. I wont be moving back to Tacoma Fife after all.


Ha Ha. I would have accepted Federal Way as well.
 
2012-12-02 06:07:29 PM  

quatchi: Happy Hours: How about you don't run red lights?

I don't. The cameras get you when you're waiting at a green light to turn left as a rule. That's not running a red light.


I saw a car get popped by a red light camera for moving to make way for an emergency vehicle. Since there are no points and just a civil fine, I doubt it would be worth fighting.
 
2012-12-02 06:14:23 PM  
Tim Eyman. All that needs to be said. I hope something horrible happens to that fark.
 
2012-12-02 06:15:31 PM  

a_bilge_monkey: whidbey: a_bilge_monkey: Oh, red light cameras. I thought, well never mind. I wont be moving back to Tacoma Fife after all.

Ha Ha. I would have accepted Federal Way as well.


Both are good places to get zapped if you happen to just find yourself off the Interstate, but Fife is especially Nazi. What gives?
 
2012-12-02 06:21:02 PM  

Happy Hours: quatchi: Automated fine machines like red light camera ticketing scams are a cash cow that cash strapped local government/LEOs the world over are looking at and trying to implement where ever they can.

Generally over the sounds of mass wailing and gnashing of many teeth.

They are an abomination upon this earth and should not be tolerated.

/Ya wanna give me a ticket?
//Do it in person or GTFO.

How about you don't run red lights?


How about you follow DOT recommendations about the minimum length of a yellow light based on the speed limit?

Oh, AND TIME THE farkING LIGHTS SO I DON'T HAVE TO STOP AT EACH INTERSECTION. Might as well cut down the lights and put up stop signs.
 
2012-12-02 06:24:08 PM  
"When I first started doing initiatives fifteen years ago, you needed 180,000 signatures to qualify for the ballot," Eyman said. "This last election we had to turn in 330,000 signatures to qualify for the ballot. There's been this exponential growth in the number of signatures, but the amount of time has remained the same.

i.imgur.com 

/quite a lot of porn comes up in a GIS for "morbo", btw
 
2012-12-02 06:24:37 PM  

discount sushi: I saw a car get popped by a red light camera for moving to make way for an emergency vehicle. Since there are no points and just a civil fine, I doubt it would be worth fighting.


That's the thing, for most people a day in court to fight an unjust ticket is throwing good money after bad even if you win because of the loss of a day's pay and the powers-that-be bloody well know it.
 
2012-12-02 06:31:42 PM  
I don't understand why every last person doesn't agree with my absolutely correct opinion that all photo enforcement is unconstitutional and should be banned. I never read any counter-arguments to my position because obviously they're crap. I assume any government that employs photo enforcement has been taken over by organized crime and is illegitimate.
 
2012-12-02 06:41:55 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Tim Eyman. All that needs to be said. I hope something horrible happens to that fark.


Maybe his high school ring business will be indicted for...something. Dude needs to begging for nickels out by the Mukilteo Ferry Dock.
 
2012-12-02 06:54:07 PM  

Nem Wan: I don't understand why every last person doesn't agree with my absolutely correct opinion that all photo enforcement is unconstitutional and should be banned. I never read any counter-arguments to my position because obviously they're crap. I assume any government that employs photo enforcement has been taken over by organized crime and is illegitimate.


In fairness, the point won't actually be litigated for another 300 years.

cache.gawker.com
 
2012-12-02 06:54:34 PM  
I live in Chicago and not only do we have the stupid red light cameras that freak people out and cause them to slam the brakes when they should just keep going, but we're also getting over 300 speed cameras throughout the city so we get automatic tickets if we exceed the limit by over 5mph.
 
2012-12-02 07:01:57 PM  

Happy Hours: How about you don't run red lights?


Because machines never make mistakes nor do local governments mess with timing signals to maximize revenue

/its all about the safety!
//I see we are following the normal red light camera thread pattern
 
2012-12-02 07:21:24 PM  
An ultra lib's dilemma: red light cameras.
 
2012-12-02 07:28:07 PM  

Happy Hours: quatchi: Automated fine machines like red light camera ticketing scams are a cash cow that cash strapped local government/LEOs the world over are looking at and trying to implement where ever they can.

Generally over the sounds of mass wailing and gnashing of many teeth.

They are an abomination upon this earth and should not be tolerated.

/Ya wanna give me a ticket?
//Do it in person or GTFO.

How about you don't run red lights?


In MI, the right to clip a red light is a basic right of driving. Not sure if you can stop in time? Just go for it. We can wait an extra .3 seconds for you to clear the light. The state cops and 99% of the local cops don't care.

With that said, if you run the light, you're an asshole who deserves whatever's coming to you.

The problem with red light cameras is that they don't differentiate between clipping and running the light (or any other situation where the "correct" thing to do is to screw the light, like the emergency vehicle thing mentioned up-thread). So everyone has to slam their brakes, and pray they don't get rear-ended.

/I think MI has banned speed cameras AND red-light cameras. It's great.
 
2012-12-02 07:32:22 PM  

CorporatePerson: I live in Chicago and not only do we have the stupid red light cameras that freak people out and cause them to slam the brakes when they should just keep going, but we're also getting over 300 speed cameras throughout the city so we get automatic tickets if we exceed the limit by over 5mph.


OBEY, It's for the betterment of everyone.
 
2012-12-02 07:33:58 PM  

Happy Hours: How about you don't run red lights?


How about you live in an area that snows every winter and NEVER EVER slip your tires because that is an 'exhibition of speed" dick head.
 
2012-12-02 07:44:48 PM  
People up here drive like arseholes. I'd rather SPD start tasing these drivers in the nuts. Outside of that, I say bring on the police state.

//Used to be a libertarian.
//Seattle drivers changed that.
 
2012-12-02 07:49:15 PM  

IntertubeUser: People up here drive like arseholes. I'd rather SPD start tasing these drivers in the nuts. Outside of that, I say bring on the police state.

//Used to be a libertarian.
//Seattle drivers changed that.


Having spent 3 months (in the summer. Winter may be different) driving there, Seattle drivers are not bad. The only thing that drove me nuts was the bit where they DON'T ACCELERATE ON THE ONRAMP (This was made worse by the bit where my car didn't have a 3rd gear, so 40 to 60 took about 20 seconds.). THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR YOU IDIOTS. STOP DOING 25 ON THE [redacted] ONRAMP. Now there's a lot of traffic, but that's a different story.

/There was also the fun bit where I was doing 65 in a 70, and by FAR the fastest person on the road.
 
2012-12-02 07:58:17 PM  

Dirty Hot Linker: Happy Hours: How about you don't run red lights?

How about you live in an area that snows every winter and NEVER EVER slip your tires because that is an 'exhibition of speed" dick head.


I do and although I have skidded in the past that simply means you weren't driving safely for conditions. Usually it's considered failure to maintain control unless your'e doing accelerating.

Somehow the RLC equipped intersection that I go through all the time has never ticketed me.
 
2012-12-02 08:01:11 PM  

meyerkev: IntertubeUser: People up here drive like arseholes. I'd rather SPD start tasing these drivers in the nuts. Outside of that, I say bring on the police state.

//Used to be a libertarian.
//Seattle drivers changed that.

Having spent 3 months (in the summer. Winter may be different) driving there, Seattle drivers are not bad. The only thing that drove me nuts was the bit where they DON'T ACCELERATE ON THE ONRAMP (This was made worse by the bit where my car didn't have a 3rd gear, so 40 to 60 took about 20 seconds.). THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR YOU IDIOTS. STOP DOING 25 ON THE [redacted] ONRAMP. Now there's a lot of traffic, but that's a different story.

/There was also the fun bit where I was doing 65 in a 70, and by FAR the fastest person on the road.


I agree that Seattle drivers really aren't that bad, at least compared to other places I've driven. There are a lot of people here who seem to treat red lights as advisory, though, especially on certain arterials. One of those arterials runs through my neighborhod, and there have been a number of fatalities on that street in the last couple of years, including one of my wife's good friends who was killed about four blocks from where I'm sitting right now.
 
2012-12-02 08:03:30 PM  

Happy Hours: How about you don't run red lights?


There are plenty of situations where one might run a right light - avoiding an accident, slick roads, failed brakes, obstructed view - which would probably not result in a ticket if witnessed by a live officer. Not every single incident of entering the intersection after the light turns red is a driver who says "screw this, I'm not waiting."
 
2012-12-02 08:11:58 PM  

ImpendingCynic: Happy Hours: How about you don't run red lights?

There are plenty of situations where one might run a right light - avoiding an accident, slick roads, failed brakes, obstructed view - which would probably not result in a ticket if witnessed by a live officer. Not every single incident of entering the intersection after the light turns red is a driver who says "screw this, I'm not waiting."


Virtually all of those situations can be avoided if one is not driving too fast for conditions and leaving adequate following distance. The extremely rare exceptions can almost always be addressed with a very brief discussion with the magistrate.
 
2012-12-02 08:15:54 PM  
I don't have a problem if they're run in a transparent and fair manner.. not doing what they did a few years ago here where they shortened the yellow light time to increase the number of tickets.
The city I'm in actually loses money on the cameras because they've had an effect in deterring people from running the lights.
 
2012-12-02 09:53:49 PM  
I guess I don't speed significantly enough to be concerned about being caught by a traffic camera moreso than I am about being caught by a cop.
 
2012-12-02 09:55:29 PM  

meyerkev: IntertubeUser: People up here drive like arseholes. I'd rather SPD start tasing these drivers in the nuts. Outside of that, I say bring on the police state.

//Used to be a libertarian.
//Seattle drivers changed that.

Having spent 3 months (in the summer. Winter may be different) driving there, Seattle drivers are not bad. The only thing that drove me nuts was the bit where they DON'T ACCELERATE ON THE ONRAMP (This was made worse by the bit where my car didn't have a 3rd gear, so 40 to 60 took about 20 seconds.). THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR YOU IDIOTS. STOP DOING 25 ON THE [redacted] ONRAMP. Now there's a lot of traffic, but that's a different story.

/There was also the fun bit where I was doing 65 in a 70, and by FAR the fastest person on the road.


Compared to the decades I spent down South, they are horrible and aggressive. For every person there doesn't accelerate on the onramp, there's two others who whip by everyone else in the Bus Only lane or drive 10 over the posted speed limit on a street with sharp turns that is also popular with cyclists. Or they'll bull their way across a double line in order to get ahead of everyone waiting to merge onto I-5.

I'd rather traffic laws be aggressively enforced and fines hiked dramatically than another tax increase. I think of it as a tax for douchey driving.
 
2012-12-02 09:58:01 PM  

evil saltine: I don't have a problem if they're run in a transparent and fair manner.. not doing what they did a few years ago here where they shortened the yellow light time to increase the number of tickets.
The city I'm in actually loses money on the cameras because they've had an effect in deterring people from running the lights.


Some might say that is the point.
 
2012-12-02 10:08:32 PM  

Happy Hours: How about you don't run red lights?


Sometimes you have to run red lights. I usually end up doing it when I'm taking a left turn at this one particular intersection.

The light is very short, and sometimes you're taking a left at a dedicated light and the person in front of you takes the turn so slowly that the light is green when you enter the intersection and red by the time you finish your turn. Sometimes you're taking a left and someone coming the other way decides to be a total asshole and take a right on their red when you have right of way, leaving you stranded in the intersection. And sometimes the person you're following to the left decides to pull into that Chevron, but gets cut off, and you end up stuck in the intersection.

Put a camera in that intersection and I'll go from paying $0/year is traffic tickets to hundreds of dollars. Fark that. Fark that right in the eye.
 
2012-12-02 11:09:45 PM  
BTW, I make turns at lights with cameras all the time, especially downtown ... right on a red, left on green or blinking yellow...and I've never gotten a ticket.
 
2012-12-02 11:13:01 PM  

Happy Hours: I do and although I have skidded in the past that simply means you weren't driving safely for conditions. Usually it's considered failure to maintain control unless your'e doing accelerating.

Somehow the RLC equipped intersection that I go through all the time has never ticketed me



And yet in Washington DC, red light camera intersections had a more than 100% increase in collisions.

The analysis shows that the number of crashes at locations with cameras more than doubled, from 365 collisions in 1998 to 755 [in 2005]. Injury and fatal crashes climbed 81 percent, from 144 such wrecks to 262. Broadside crashes, also known as right-angle or T-bone collisions, rose 30 percent, from 81 to 106 during that time frame. Traffic specialists say broadside collisions are especially dangerous because the sides are the most vulnerable areas of cars.
...
The results were similar or worse than figures at intersections that have traffic signals but no cameras. The number of overall crashes at those 1,520 locations increased 64 percent; injury and fatal crashes rose 54 percent; and broadside collisions rose 17 percent.
 
2012-12-02 11:14:03 PM  
As much as I hate them, there are two places I'd love to see them in the DFW area, 121 & 35 service roads and Preston and George Bush. Idiots fly through at 70/80 on a red light. Seen plenty of bad accidents for it.
 
hej [TotalFark]
2012-12-03 12:08:40 AM  

theknuckler_33: I guess I don't speed significantly enough to be concerned about being caught by a traffic camera moreso than I am about being caught by a cop.


Red light camera != speed camera
 
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