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(NPR)   France's president says homework "penalizes students with difficult home lives." So clearly, the solution is to help improve the home life. Wait, no, it's getting rid of homework entirely   (npr.org) divider line 227
    More: Fail, social democracies, Bryant Gumbel  
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3780 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Dec 2012 at 12:18 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-02 01:13:59 PM  
Isn't this along the lines of hobbling those who can run faster than others? In the sense that home environment is somewhat "hereditary" in that if the parents didn't learn good study habits, or didn't have a quite place to study when they were young, they aren't likely to provide these things for their children. So in effect this decree says homes with better study habits won't have an advantage over homes without.

They're bringing the higher level down instead of the lower level up. It's weak.

/college level education is also somewhat "hereditary". if your parents didn't go to college you are less likely to do so
 
2012-12-02 01:14:15 PM  

LiberalEastCoastElitist: You can not properly teach math with one practice set per week. No way. They would be struggling to maintain what they were already taught.


No, not really. I did about one practice set a week, even though being assigned a lot more, and still did well in the advanced level math classes. That's an excuse, and it's not true. Kids can learn math at a much, much faster rate than we let them- I had a professor once who was involved in a program that was teaching basic levels of calculus to kids in elementary school. When you're learning new skills, you're applying the old ones and still getting practice with them, without the utter drudgery and uselessness of taking three months to teach fractions.

LiberalEastCoastElitist: Sure there is. The school district can't afford the 1:1 attention each kid needs, so they send Junior home with homework and recruit the parent's help. This is part of the reason why kids with educated parents and a stable household do better in school. They can't shorten the school day in light of this either, because working class people are basically depending on public school for daycare purposes.


Yeah, and school should be a lot more than daycare. They're there, why not actually teach them rather than trying to make the actual learning happen at home? As Fark_Guy_Rob points out, the guy or girl who's training to operate on your brain spends significantly less time in class than an elementary schooler. They spend a tremendous amount of time in class, and that time can and should be used to work on problem sets and whatnot- with the expert in the room to work with a kid, or go over the occasional problem on the board. You don't need particularly small class sizes to do that effectively, you just need to alter the structure of how you teach the class. Set aside the chalk every now and then and have kids work through the problems while they can call on you when they're having problems, so that rather than struggling with it, not getting it, and having problems with that concept later, the problem is found quickly, easily corrected, and the kid learns the material much faster and much more strongly. You get what, 30 kids sitting at their desks working. The teacher walks around looking for frustrated faces. She then walks over to the kid and helps them out. If two or three have the same problem, go over it in the board.

That's been shown to be a tremendously effective method of teaching. But the mindset is that the teacher should be up there talking the whole time they're in the room, which is just entirely counterproductive.
 
2012-12-02 01:15:13 PM  

Rich Cream: didn't have a quite quiet place to study


/mediocre study habits
 
2012-12-02 01:16:57 PM  

APE992: I've had professors who use shiatty books to try to reinforce what they teach in class. What they teach in class may amount to 75% of what is in the book and they never test or even talk about that last 25% but damn if you don't need to read everything and pray you learned enough to pass a test (Hint: I didn't because this method sucks). Then on top of it all the book is written in a perspective of being a seasoned engineer and fark you if you don't understand what it says.


That's what office hours are for. Not only do you get the opportunity to get individual help, but if enough people show up wanting help it should get the idea across to the prof that what he's doing isn't getting through to a lot of the class. If he wants his office hours to be spent more productively than dealing with a long line of students, he'll have to change his methods.
 
2012-12-02 01:17:12 PM  
My favorite excuse from teachers giving homework: "It's a way for the less proficient kids to get a higher grade". Sure, graded homework will help some kids, but how come all of the smarter kids lost 10-15% of their grade because they had clubs and advanced classes, and no time for homework? I would have preferred a longer day with no homework with teachers to actually back up the work they give us than bullshiat work meant to raise the average of the class, while penalizing those who didn't have quite enough time to do it.

/I think the real reason for it is that some teachers are sadists, as some were visibly upset that a sub didn't give out homework on every useless thing they book-taught us.
//Im smarting most of the comments in the thread.
///Slashies come in threes
 
2012-12-02 01:17:36 PM  
i.imgur.com
We shall start an underground network immediately after we surrender our syllabi.
 
2012-12-02 01:17:46 PM  
Subby needs to think a bit more about this.

When I was in middle and high school in the 1990s, homework was pretty much busy work. Lots of repetitious problems. I doubt much has changed. The sheer amount of work that had to do done each night was also a bit overwhelming. I didn't get home from School until 4pm; if I was on an after school sports team it was more like 6 to 7pm. I then had to get up at 6:30am in the morning.

Starting sophomore of high school I begin doing most of my homework in groups during free periods. I got a lot more out of that than doing it alone at night because when I didn't understand something, I could discuss it with classmates. I would have never made in through Calculus BC and Physics AP if it wasn't for doing homework in groups. And that's more like how homework is done in undergrad and grad school -- you work in study groups.
 
2012-12-02 01:19:31 PM  

ApatheticMonkey: For all of you farkers who think that homework is unnecessary and useless, I'd like you to go do something. Go find yourself a teacher that operates outside of a school environment - a sports coach, or a piano teacher or something. Now make your same argument to them, but replace "homework" with "practice".

And essays and disserations teach us to use critical thinking and be able to back up our statements and arguments using facts and the opinions of credible sources. Otherwise, we'll all end up like that "study it out" lady.



While everything you said is true, there's a difference between practice and busywork, and not all teachers have the skill to distinguish between the two. Multiplication tables? Fine. Persuasive essay? Fine. Look up these 20 words in the dictionary and write down their definitions longhand? What? If you're trying to teach vocabulary,use the words in a sentence, and teach language roots and their word structure. (What does 'rectangle' 'rectify' and 'direction' have in common? If you're reeling especially lokisome, add 'erection' in there and leave them to titter.) This actually accomplishes its stated purpose, besides taking far less time, and is also more likely to lead to later success. This is what the French leaders were complaining about in TFA, when we rely on filling people's heads with rote memorization instead of teaching overall knowledge. After all, which option is more likely to allow you to use 'rectify' later in life? Learning the use of phonemes, allowing for outright wordsmithing, or strange buffoonery, such as memorizing a list of words for 24 hours which are forgotten in 72?
 
2012-12-02 01:20:57 PM  
Yes, let's laugh at a country with a better economy and a bigger GDP than ours for ideas that might actually work.
 
2012-12-02 01:21:05 PM  

cptjeff: APE992: Then there is the whole writing paper thing that never made sense to me. Most people don't spend their lives writing proposals, dissertations, so I've never understood why high school kids have to write essays comparing/contrasting two books with their teacher offering vague feedback that doesn't really direct how to improve your thought processes to write a better paper later.

A hell of a lot of people spend a lot of time and effort writing stuff like grant proposals. Scientists do, anybody in the nonprofit world begging for money does, people in any sort of business looking to get a project started need to be able to argue their case. And even if you don't write often, being able to coherently express yourself in the English language is an incredibly valuable, and, among certain technical classes, vanishingly rare skill.

And writing papers forces you to build an argument, and learn how to use evidence to support that argument. The feedback isn't the point so much as the practice is. The subject matter is really quite irrelevant, it's the process of writing and argumentation that's important. We use literature to teach those skills because literature offers interesting insights into our culture and society, which are damn good things to understand. It's also supposed to be interesting to read. We also teach those skills in history and civics class, and a good science teacher should assign some writing on occasion as well.


Very well said.

It's funny how the whiners in this thread say they want critical thinking, and then reject the idea that it be assigned.
 
2012-12-02 01:22:24 PM  
HEROtag.jpg
 
2012-12-02 01:22:31 PM  

Portia: Keep in mind that some districts mandate homework. My district requires a minimum of 3 homework assignments per week per class. As the teacher I wouldn't choose to do that if I had any say in the matter.


Good point. In the United States we're so fast to blame teachers and teacher unions when so many of the moronic policies in our schools are set by the people on the school board. Often to be on the school board you don't have to have any background/experience in education -- you just have a to win an election.
 
2012-12-02 01:31:26 PM  

optional: cptjeff: APE992: Then there is the whole writing paper thing that never made sense to me. Most people don't spend their lives writing proposals, dissertations, so I've never understood why high school kids have to write essays comparing/contrasting two books with their teacher offering vague feedback that doesn't really direct how to improve your thought processes to write a better paper later.

A hell of a lot of people spend a lot of time and effort writing stuff like grant proposals. Scientists do, anybody in the nonprofit world begging for money does, people in any sort of business looking to get a project started need to be able to argue their case. And even if you don't write often, being able to coherently express yourself in the English language is an incredibly valuable, and, among certain technical classes, vanishingly rare skill.

And writing papers forces you to build an argument, and learn how to use evidence to support that argument. The feedback isn't the point so much as the practice is. The subject matter is really quite irrelevant, it's the process of writing and argumentation that's important. We use literature to teach those skills because literature offers interesting insights into our culture and society, which are damn good things to understand. It's also supposed to be interesting to read. We also teach those skills in history and civics class, and a good science teacher should assign some writing on occasion as well.

Very well said.

It's funny how the whiners in this thread say they want critical thinking, and then reject the idea that it be assigned.


that would suggest most people even know how to communicate properly. Alot of people can't even read body language, and the ones that do call it "street sense".
 
2012-12-02 01:32:35 PM  

Kuroutesshin: cptjeff: Erom: Wow, amazed that the attitude is anti-homework here. If I didn't have homework in school, I would have been absolutely worthless in college. Homework is a great character builder and teaches kids that life can suck sometimes.

Ah, character building. The traditional excuse given when you have no good reason, but want a kid to do something anyway.

I did find in college after blowing off a pretty fair amount of homework in school prior. I had simply learned early to distinguish between what was important for me to understand the material and bullshiat make work.

Yeah, learning how to manage a deadline, prioritize work, and complete assigned tasks in adolescence is a complete waste of time. Not only that, but making students apply what they've learned in class to homework in order to reinforce lessons is stupid, kids automatically remember everything they learned when the bell sounds at 3:00.


I learned how to prioritize work, all right. I learned just how useless most of the homework I was given was, and what parts were interesting and useful. Like papers or projects- bigger things where my brain was actually engaged.

And if school is letting out at 3 without anything sticking, there's a major problem with how you're teaching the material. If working through the material is how you learn things and nothing from the constant droning is sticking, maybe you could reduce the constant drone of lecture to the important parts and move the serious learning inside the classroom? Otherwise, being in the classroom at all is a giant waste of time. My point is that it doesn't have to be.

ryant123: Also helpful was that most of my teachers had masters degrees in their subject area, were competent, and didn't assign work that was inane and completely pointless.


I think this is an important point. Good homework, assigned by somebody who cares and knows something about the homework, is going to enhance your understanding and engage you. You're probably also going to learn a lot in class. To me, this is all about better and more efficient teaching. You can do a lot of the rote stuff in class, where it gets done faster, with problems addressed much more quickly and easily, so it takes up much more time overall. The material gets learned faster, the material gets learned better. You save the intrusion into the student's home life for real stuff that can't be done in class. Projects, papers. Busywork has no place whatsoever being sent home.
 
2012-12-02 01:37:11 PM  

Kuroutesshin: cptjeff: Erom: Wow, amazed that the attitude is anti-homework here. If I didn't have homework in school, I would have been absolutely worthless in college. Homework is a great character builder and teaches kids that life can suck sometimes.

Ah, character building. The traditional excuse given when you have no good reason, but want a kid to do something anyway.

I did find in college after blowing off a pretty fair amount of homework in school prior. I had simply learned early to distinguish between what was important for me to understand the material and bullshiat make work.

Yeah, learning how to manage a deadline, prioritize work, and complete assigned tasks in adolescence is a complete waste of time. Not only that, but making students apply what they've learned in class to homework in order to reinforce lessons is stupid, kids automatically remember everything they learned when the bell sounds at 3:00.



Reading this thread, I can understand why it's becoming more and more common for people to mindlessly bounce from career to career, failing to actually dedicate and apply themselves and then blaming their superiors for failing to adapt to their special needs.
 
2012-12-02 01:37:18 PM  

thornhill: When I was in middle and high school in the 1990s, homework was pretty much busy work. Lots of repetitious problems. I doubt much has changed. The sheer amount of work that had to do done each night was also a bit overwhelming. I didn't get home from School until 4pm; if I was on an after school sports team it was more like 6 to 7pm. I then had to get up at 6:30am in the morning.



You should try going to a military academy boarding school. Every second of the day is pretty much accounted for. Morning formation, inspection, breakfast, classes, lunch, classes, formations, sport activities, dinner, study period, break time, study period, bed.

/cry me a river
 
2012-12-02 01:39:43 PM  
The only thing homework ever taught me is procrastinating.

Like they'd give us three months to do a book report and I would forget all about it until the week-end right before the monday it was due, read the thing sunday morning and shiat out the report in the afternoon.

Also the horror of remembering some big homework assignment you'd totally forgot about on a sunday evening (which was already depressing in the first place). I even had nightmares about that. Good times.
 
2012-12-02 01:40:44 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: More and more it seem school is just day-care and the homework is meant to be the learning?

I've known medical students, veterinary students, and engineers who spend significantly less time in class than a 2nd grader. I'm not really sure what kids are doing in school all day, but I'm pretty sure it's not really learning in the traditional sense.

At most universities a 'full-time' student is one who will have '15-credit hours' and that should translate, roughly, into 15 hours in class, each week. That's roughly *three hours* per day. And this is for serious university types.


Have you ever been to a university before? Do you understand how it works at all?

A comment like that tells me no.
 
2012-12-02 01:43:07 PM  

Rich Cream: Isn't this along the lines of hobbling those who can run faster than others?



But that makes everyone equal, which, after all, is the goal. Protecting feelings is far more important than discovering and developing future achievers and creators.
 
2012-12-02 01:44:27 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com

Surprised I'm the Weeners this
 
2012-12-02 01:45:19 PM  

BigNumber12: Kuroutesshin: cptjeff: Erom: Wow, amazed that the attitude is anti-homework here. If I didn't have homework in school, I would have been absolutely worthless in college. Homework is a great character builder and teaches kids that life can suck sometimes.

Ah, character building. The traditional excuse given when you have no good reason, but want a kid to do something anyway.

I did find in college after blowing off a pretty fair amount of homework in school prior. I had simply learned early to distinguish between what was important for me to understand the material and bullshiat make work.

Yeah, learning how to manage a deadline, prioritize work, and complete assigned tasks in adolescence is a complete waste of time. Not only that, but making students apply what they've learned in class to homework in order to reinforce lessons is stupid, kids automatically remember everything they learned when the bell sounds at 3:00.


Reading this thread, I can understand why it's becoming more and more common for people to mindlessly bounce from career to career, failing to actually dedicate and apply themselves and then blaming their superiors for failing to adapt to their special needs.


Almost like a certain educational institution failed to teach them how. In fact, how much of school is applying yourself? All I see in school is standardized testing and memorization, as well as imaginary concepts. And then people wonder why the trades disappeared.
 
2012-12-02 01:46:53 PM  
* first one to post this. Where the hell did Weeners come from?
 
2012-12-02 01:47:20 PM  

thornhill: And that's more like how homework is done in undergrad and grad school -- you work in study groups.


Hmmm...maybe I was/am an outlier, but I never did homework in groups---not in high school, not in undergrad, not in grad school---and I performed well and never felt especially overwhelmed with the volume of work, either.

As far as young children getting assigned homework goes: our daughter (a kindergartener) is assigned one worksheet of homework per night, and that doesn't include any reading or math practice we parents might want our kid to do.
 
2012-12-02 01:50:14 PM  
Or...the kids who have a difficult home life can do what I did -- don't do the homework. Still finished in the top 10% of my high school class, in honors classes. I think my actual homework average was around 20%, mainly for lack of doing it. I had a somewhat public full-time job in high school, so most of my teachers counted my job as my homework. A few of them even said I was going to learn far more about their subject on the job than I would in their classroom and gave me quite a few free passes.

Now in Uni, different story. Application of knowledge, not a problem. BUT rote memorization a.k.a. read & regurgitate, was the order de jour. I even had a professor get angry with me asking application-type questions of the material, insisting that "that's not what you need here! Just memorize it and spit it out on the test. You don't need to understand it!"
 
2012-12-02 01:50:22 PM  

BumpInTheNight: It's 5:30 p.m. and getting dark outside, as kids pour out of Gutenberg Elementary School in Paris 15th arrondissement.

5:30pm let-out time? Whew things have changed.


I think that's part of the argument, France has a long school day, why not get everything done then.
 
2012-12-02 01:51:01 PM  

marchnrun4: * first one to post this. Where the hell did Weeners come from?


Hmmm let's see this noob's accou
2006-09-14 22:06:21

What? How? This only makes for more questions.

/first time back since?
 
2012-12-02 01:51:12 PM  
Let me get this straight... countries are falling behind in math..
math requires repetition to learn...
decrease the amount of repetition...
better math scores?
 
2012-12-02 01:51:34 PM  

Alphakronik: Yes, let's laugh at a country with a better economy and a bigger GDP than ours for ideas that might actually work.


Oh look, a crazy person.
 
2012-12-02 01:54:57 PM  

dave2198: Let me get this straight... countries are falling behind in math..
math requires repetition to learn...
decrease the amount of repetition...
better math scores?


If it were that simple, don't you think with all the homework and repetition there wouldn't be any problems with math. Or is there more to understanding math then simply "do as many of these questions that you don't understand as you possibly can".

If you don't understand something to begin with, doing more of it won't help any.
 
2012-12-02 01:58:51 PM  

Rich Cream: marchnrun4: * first one to post this. Where the hell did Weeners come from?

Hmmm let's see this noob's accou
2006-09-14 22:06:21

What? How? This only makes for more questions.

/first time back since?


I read FARK everyday, I hardly ever post anything though
 
2012-12-02 02:00:14 PM  
Homework (that is actually graded) reinforces in-class learning...is it really that hard to understand? You know, EXPERIENCE. Those griping that homework is a sign of failed teaching obviously sucked at school (or their kid sucks at school).

The teacher will not be standing by as these kids take the standardized tests required to graduate from high school nor when they take the standardized tests required by college admissions (both undergraduate and graduate). You can argue all you want about the role standardized tests should play, but the teachers have little say in whether little snowflake gets into Harvard, Georgetown or the University of the Pacific. 

Again, homework is necessary to confirm that Johnny or Jenny Snowflake understood what was taught. It is a method of feedback used to improve learning. It is not a punishment or a tool to keep the poor impoverished. The fact that so many want to scrap it, and then piss and moan about how schools let our kids down, is pathetic.
 
2012-12-02 02:00:47 PM  

links136: dave2198: Let me get this straight... countries are falling behind in math..
math requires repetition to learn...
decrease the amount of repetition...
better math scores?

If it were that simple, don't you think with all the homework and repetition there wouldn't be any problems with math. Or is there more to understanding math then simply "do as many of these questions that you don't understand as you possibly can".

If you don't understand something to begin with, doing more of it won't help any.


Did I say that everyone could get good at math simply through repetition? No... I said that math requires repetition to learn... which it does, especially at the grade school level. Multiplication tables, division, etc.is best learned through practicing a variety of problems multiple times, so you can learn to apply the rules in various situations.

Also, did I say that repetition was the ONLY factor?

Good lord, I can see who failed reading comprehension tests in school.
 
2012-12-02 02:02:41 PM  
I thought there were recent studies showing that homework is bullshiat and not very effective? Something about giving the same homework to all the students regardless of how well they understood the lesson was fail.
 
2012-12-02 02:03:29 PM  

nmemkha: We need to return to actually teaching critical thinking and imparting knowledge rather than rote memorization to pass standardized tests.


That's no way to create more Republican voters.
 
2012-12-02 02:04:11 PM  

dave2198: links136: dave2198: Let me get this straight... countries are falling behind in math..
math requires repetition to learn...
decrease the amount of repetition...
better math scores?

If it were that simple, don't you think with all the homework and repetition there wouldn't be any problems with math. Or is there more to understanding math then simply "do as many of these questions that you don't understand as you possibly can".

If you don't understand something to begin with, doing more of it won't help any.

Did I say that everyone could get good at math simply through repetition? No... I said that math requires repetition to learn... which it does, especially at the grade school level. Multiplication tables, division, etc.is best learned through practicing a variety of problems multiple times, so you can learn to apply the rules in various situations.

Also, did I say that repetition was the ONLY factor?

Good lord, I can see who failed reading comprehension tests in school.


The other issue. Not everyone has the same comprehension of concepts. What, you think trades people understand concepts the way scholars do? There's a reason trades are disappearing fast regardless of outsourcing.
 
2012-12-02 02:05:08 PM  

jst3p: I thought there were recent studies showing that homework is bullshiat and not very effective? Something about giving the same homework to all the students regardless of how well they understood the lesson was fail.


So tailor the homework to the student... problem solved...

Doing away with homework altogether won't help anybody.
 
2012-12-02 02:06:05 PM  

BigNumber12: Rich Cream: Isn't this along the lines of hobbling those who can run faster than others?


But that makes everyone equal, which, after all, is the goal. Protecting feelings is far more important than discovering and developing future achievers and creators.


+1. Please continue...
 
2012-12-02 02:06:24 PM  

links136: Almost like a certain educational institution failed to teach them how. In fact, how much of school is applying yourself?


What do you think homework is? Any moron can nod along as a teacher guides them through a lesson plan. Homework teaches you the importance of understanding a concept well enough to be able to perform it on your own. Unless you're going to work in a sweatshop, the classroom environment is not going to teach you how to accomplish tasks independently or seek out and utilize tools and resources, like an actual job requires.

links136: All I see in school is standardized testing and memorization, as well as imaginary concepts.


What's an imaginary concept? Last time I checked, nearly all of the difficult ideas behind the tools and technologies that enable modern life aren't exactly tangible. Godforbid we teach kids to deal with ideas that can't be seen with the naked eye.

links136: And then people wonder why the trades disappeared.


No argument here. I'm in General Contracting, and we're seeing a real crisis both in recruitment of tradespeople and in leaders emerging from the ranks of the trades. Lots of people with no work ethic, no investment in the bigger picture. Just want to show up at 7:30, clock out right when break starts, and disappear at 3:30. We're facing the imminent retirement of large numbers of senior superintendents, and it's looking like large swaths of their knowledge won't be passed down to anyone.
 
2012-12-02 02:08:33 PM  

marchnrun4: Rich Cream: marchnrun4: * first one to post this. Where the hell did Weeners come from?

Hmmm let's see this noob's accou
2006-09-14 22:06:21

What? How? This only makes for more questions.

/first time back since?

I read FARK everyda
y, I hardly ever post anything though



Inconceivable.
 
2012-12-02 02:08:37 PM  

links136: dave2198: links136: dave2198: Let me get this straight... countries are falling behind in math..
math requires repetition to learn...
decrease the amount of repetition...
better math scores?

If it were that simple, don't you think with all the homework and repetition there wouldn't be any problems with math. Or is there more to understanding math then simply "do as many of these questions that you don't understand as you possibly can".

If you don't understand something to begin with, doing more of it won't help any.

Did I say that everyone could get good at math simply through repetition? No... I said that math requires repetition to learn... which it does, especially at the grade school level. Multiplication tables, division, etc.is best learned through practicing a variety of problems multiple times, so you can learn to apply the rules in various situations.

Also, did I say that repetition was the ONLY factor?

Good lord, I can see who failed reading comprehension tests in school.

The other issue. Not everyone has the same comprehension of concepts. What, you think trades people understand concepts the way scholars do? There's a reason trades are disappearing fast regardless of outsourcing.


So your solution is do get rid of scholars to tradespeople don't feel bad?

I never said the concept of homework couldn't be improved. Tailor it to the student, put people in different classes, whatever...But doing away with homework altogether would only hurt our society.
 
2012-12-02 02:08:43 PM  

RandomExcess: The problem is not assigning homework, it is grading it. If you cannot determine the appropriate grade based on in class performance (outside projects/term papers) then you are doing it wrong. So assign all the homework you want, and the student should do as much as they want, but grading it is for losers.



Because the real world doesn't grade the outcome of a person's work, right? Who cares if the rocket detonates on the launchpad, or the patient dies on the operating table, as long as the worker felt good about having tried hard, right?
 
2012-12-02 02:10:14 PM  
Anything I add will come across as trolling. Most folks are so bought into the system that my own assessment of the situation will only result in taunts and jeers. But do carry on. I'll just stand back and watch.
 
2012-12-02 02:11:12 PM  

Erom: Wow, amazed that the attitude is anti-homework here. If I didn't have homework in school, I would have been absolutely worthless in college. Homework is a great character builder and teaches kids that life can suck sometimes.


Don't they spend all day learning that in school?
 
2012-12-02 02:12:11 PM  
North African peoples problems.
 
2012-12-02 02:13:47 PM  
The race to the bottom continues.
 
2012-12-02 02:15:25 PM  

dave2198:

I never said the concept of homework couldn't be improved. Tailor it to the student, put people in different classes, whatever...But doing away with homework altogether would only hurt our society.


I agree with the "tailor it to the student" approach, but that's where I feel parents come in. As much as I would prefer teachers to assign unique assignments based on individual students' needs, I don't see that happening in most public schools. For example, the "math" homework our 5 year old daughter is assigned is below her level of understanding and "booooring" (her word), so I take the time to teach her more advanced concepts like the number line, negative numbers, how subtracting numbers is the same as adding negative numbers, etc.
 
2012-12-02 02:16:27 PM  

Rich Cream: marchnrun4: Rich Cream: marchnrun4: * first one to post this. Where the hell did Weeners come from?

Hmmm let's see this noob's accou
2006-09-14 22:06:21

What? How? This only makes for more questions.

/first time back since?

I read FARK everyday, I hardly ever post anything though


Inconceivable.


It does seem strange, but I don't know the parameters for that Weeners thing. Hell I like FARK more than reddit. Plus I was tempted to bust out an Inigo Montoya joke but eh
 
2012-12-02 02:17:50 PM  

cptjeff: No, not really. I did about one practice set a week, even though being assigned a lot more, and still did well in the advanced level math classes. That's an excuse, and it's not true. Kids can learn math at a much, much faster rate than we let them- I had a professor once who was involved in a program that was teaching basic levels of calculus to kids in elementary school. When you're learning new skills, you're applying the old ones and still getting practice with them, without the utter drudgery and uselessness of taking three months to teach fractions.


This might be news to you, but not everyone is as bright as you. For ever person like you who doesn't have to work their buns off doing math problems to get math, there are ten people breaking pencils in frustration and pouring over hours and hours of homework to etch out a B because they just don't get it (easily). Look at highschool graduation rates (about 75%). Look at the average reading level (about 6th grade). What portion of matriculated college freshman would be prepared to start calculus? My guess would be less whan a quarter. I seem to recall my undergrad class schedule has over a dozen dummy algebra classes and maybe three calc 1s. These people at one point knew algebra and geometry, but they didn't do enough problem sets to retain it. Also, most of them are worthless without a calculator because they didn't do enough pencil and paper work starting with grade school. Studies show most math errors are small computational errors, which is a direct result of lack of practice. Each grade level a student passes without mastery of the lower levels makes math harder and more soul crushing for them. It's easier to invest the time.

The only Chinese characters I still remember from two years of Chinese are the characters I recalled from memory over and over doing homework.

cptjeff: Yeah, and school should be a lot more than daycare. They're there, why not actually teach them rather than trying to make the actual learning happen at home?

Because that would be fantastically expensive and our society, for better or for worse, hasn't decided that should be a priority.
 
2012-12-02 02:24:06 PM  

jjorsett: That's what office hours are for. Not only do you get the opportunity to get individual help, but if enough people show up wanting help it should get the idea across to the prof that what he's doing isn't getting through to a lot of the class. If he wants his office hours to be spent more productively than dealing with a long line of students, he'll have to change his methods.


Or, in the case of most professors, their office hours.
 
2012-12-02 02:25:52 PM  
I don't know what kind of homework everybody else had, but our homework as the same as classroom work. It didn't add anything to learning that could not have been done in class. Actually most people did finish their homework in class.

It's interesting how some people who are for homework are the ones here who are bullying others. Saying if you don't like it then it's OBVIOUS you sucked at school. And it's clear you can't hold a job. Yet none of those things are clear at all. You'd think if you did good with homework and it taught you so much you'd know not to jump to conclusions like that. I always thought intelligent people were the ones who could debate something without getting emotional or rude.
 
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