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(Time)   Atheists are now creating their own anti-Nativity scenes   (ideas.time.com) divider line 107
    More: Interesting, nativity, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Yale Law School, Santa Monica  
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21972 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Dec 2012 at 2:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-02 01:35:49 AM
12 votes:
The Supreme Court has ruled that when the government opens up public property to private citizens - when it creates a public forum for speech - it cannot discriminate in favor of some viewpoints and against others.  

So, STFU about your oppression and the WAR ON CHRISTMAS™ and pack up your nativity scenes and take them somewhere private. I bet your church would let you set up a creche on their property. Why, I bet any number of individuals and businesses would gladly let you set up your displays on their property.

STOP SETTING THIS SHIAT UP ON PUBLIC PROPERTY
2012-12-02 02:14:41 AM
8 votes:

Revek: That you come in talking about how atheist don't do this or don't' do that but the truth is that they just do different asshole things.


For example?

Revek: I just simply don't care how wrong you are about the tendency of atheist to be just as uncompromising in their quest to be... Well assholes


When are atheists uncompromising?

When they demand that the Constitution be applied equally to all groups? When they fight to keep "Intelligent Design" out of science textbooks? When, like one guy sues over "In God We Trust" on the money? OK, that guy's an ass, but I happen to agree it doesn't belong there. Nevertheless, that is like ONE guy. Unless he's your neighbor or a relative, you can easily ignore the whole thing.

What exactly do atheists do but talk on a TV that you can turn off, and write books you don't have to buy, and chat in threads that you don't have to read?
2012-12-02 01:27:02 AM
7 votes:
Just put Nativity scenes on church lawns and the issue goes away. why do they need to be anywhere else?
2012-12-02 12:45:50 AM
7 votes:
Put up all the nativity scenes you want on church or private property. It's easy.

Most people wanting to put them up on government property are probably the same who believe government is bad. Get off the government teat and put them up on your own or your church's property.
2012-12-02 12:30:40 AM
7 votes:
What's Anti-Nativity mean? Three dumb women travel to see a dying old man and steal sh*t from him?
2012-12-02 01:38:45 AM
6 votes:

This About That: Revek: these assholes ... remind me of christian wingnuts

Bingo.


Yeah, those damn atheists always putting up displays on Darwin's birthday, even though the courts tell them EVERY. farkING. YEAR. to knock it off.

And then they use it as an excuse to whine about the WAR on science and reason!
2012-12-02 01:15:42 AM
6 votes:
I think these assholes are the reason i finally deicded on Apatheism. They remind me of christian wingnuts. They only feel free if they are trying to tell other hows to be free.
2012-12-02 12:42:33 AM
6 votes:
Why would they want an anti-religious display?

Just let the nativity scenes be set up on private property rather than public property. It is a a bit silly, having a religious display on public land is not prohibited, nor is a secular display. But why keep lawyers in business when you can just move them to a church or some other private property.

Why fight with people who insist on shiatting on nice things?
2012-12-02 02:38:52 AM
5 votes:
We can put the Christ back in Christmas but first things first. Let's somehow attempt to insert the Christ into Christian.
2012-12-02 02:18:24 AM
5 votes:

Revek: but the truth is that they just do different asshole things.


different asshole things....like expecting the same privilege granted to religious institutions? cause that's all that happened here.
2012-12-02 12:37:47 AM
5 votes:
Let's keep Christmas in the malls where it belongs
2012-12-02 03:13:55 AM
4 votes:

HotWingAgenda: Revek: And how is it that the guy who wants in god we trust off the money is any different from the guy who want the nativity scene off the public land. To me, Both assholes. These things don't force you to go to church. They don't force you to believe. If it offends the eye then do not look upon it, My eyes

They're only asking government officials to stop violating the 1st Amendment prohibition on the government respecting an establishment of religion. It's not about feelings, it's about adherence to the supreme law of the land. How can a non-Christian expect due process at a courthouse covered in Christian labeling? How can I have faith that my government has my best interests in mind, if its very money is printed with a slogan for a religious group that has historically tortured and persecuted members of other religions?


Not that I disagree with the sentiment; but you do realize, don't you, that we have ALWAYS gotten due process at courthouses--including the highest in the land--"covered in Christian labeling." Courthouses that oftener than not dispensed fairly even-handed justice regarding establishment of religion IN FAVOR of no religion at all, while sitting in a big building with "IN GOD WE TRUST" carved on the lintels.

The point being that it's really irrelevant whether the Christian god is invoked at a courthouse, or the Muslim god, or indeed the Norse gods or the Flying Spaghetti Monster--as long as DUE PROCESS is followed inside, which is theoretically religion-free, or should be. A Jewish judge should be able to sit on the bench with In God We Trust on the wall and still be relied upon to dispense justice to the Hindu and Buddhist complainants--and if he can't, then it hardly matters if the courtroom is scrubbed clean of every religious symbol known to man. I don't much care what the outside looks like, I just want to be sure the people inside are adhering to the law--they can practice in a cathedral for all I care, as long as the rule of law is scrupulously followed.
2012-12-02 03:11:32 AM
4 votes:

Eddie Ate Dynamite: Lionel Mandrake: The Supreme Court has ruled that when the government opens up public property to private citizens - when it creates a public forum for speech - it cannot discriminate in favor of some viewpoints and against others.  

So, STFU about your oppression and the WAR ON CHRISTMAS™ and pack up your nativity scenes and take them somewhere private. I bet your church would let you set up a creche on their property. Why, I bet any number of individuals and businesses would gladly let you set up your displays on their property.

STOP SETTING THIS SHIAT UP ON PUBLIC PROPERTY

While this is all technically correct, I still find it a bit sad. I consider myself agnostic, but I still grew up in a church doing Christmas plays and what not. Nativity scenes are part and parcel of Christmas, just like a Christmas tree, egg nog, turkey and ham dinners, and Christmas music talking about Jesus. Perhaps some or all of these things don't apply to your Christmas, or maybe you don't celebrate or even recognize Christmas in any way, but that doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.

Nativity scenes inspire warm feelings of remembrance and tradition in many people, and public grounds are a great place to put them because so many people can enjoy them in a common locale. Now the laws are correct, it wouldn't be right to allow a pro-Christ display without allowing an anti-Christ display as well. However I think there should also be some sort of a "don't be a farking asshole" law that judges the intent of such a display or something. A nativity scene is most likely meant to inspire and spread happiness and remembrance, whereas an anti-Christ display would most likely be intended to upset people, or at least not have warm-fuzzies as the reasoning behind it, arguments about indoctrination or whatever regarding a nativity scene aside.

Okay so religion has done a whole lot of bad things. There are assholes that are religious. There are also assholes that are non religious, and ev ...


Chances are you did that stuff in church or at your house. Nobody says you shouldn't.

But the 1st Amendment is simple: if Christians get to put up their stuff on PUBLIC PROPERTY, then so does everyone else.

It's very simple. All or nothing.
2012-12-02 03:07:59 AM
4 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: The Supreme Court has ruled that when the government opens up public property to private citizens - when it creates a public forum for speech - it cannot discriminate in favor of some viewpoints and against others.  

So, STFU about your oppression and the WAR ON CHRISTMAS™ and pack up your nativity scenes and take them somewhere private. I bet your church would let you set up a creche on their property. Why, I bet any number of individuals and businesses would gladly let you set up your displays on their property.

STOP SETTING THIS SHIAT UP ON PUBLIC PROPERTY


While this is all technically correct, I still find it a bit sad. I consider myself agnostic, but I still grew up in a church doing Christmas plays and what not. Nativity scenes are part and parcel of Christmas, just like a Christmas tree, egg nog, turkey and ham dinners, and Christmas music talking about Jesus. Perhaps some or all of these things don't apply to your Christmas, or maybe you don't celebrate or even recognize Christmas in any way, but that doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.

Nativity scenes inspire warm feelings of remembrance and tradition in many people, and public grounds are a great place to put them because so many people can enjoy them in a common locale. Now the laws are correct, it wouldn't be right to allow a pro-Christ display without allowing an anti-Christ display as well. However I think there should also be some sort of a "don't be a farking asshole" law that judges the intent of such a display or something. A nativity scene is most likely meant to inspire and spread happiness and remembrance, whereas an anti-Christ display would most likely be intended to upset people, or at least not have warm-fuzzies as the reasoning behind it, arguments about indoctrination or whatever regarding a nativity scene aside.

Okay so religion has done a whole lot of bad things. There are assholes that are religious. There are also assholes that are non religious, and every other potential permutation of a human being can also consist of an asshole. I bet somebody thought Ghandi was a real piece of shiat. Unfortunately for you atheists, theists still comprise the majority so there tends to be more assholes that claim religion than otherwise, but that doesn't mean you need to work extra hard to represent the other side, or to ruin a holiday (holy-day, by the way, religion is sorta the reason you have the day off) traditionally meant to spread warmth cheer and good tidings.

If you want to be a grinch and refrain from enjoying the festivities that's fine, but nobody's hurting you with it so how about just being a decent human being for about a month a year? If you are being hurt by it, or if some person or group is doing something decidedly unmagnanimous, then by all means shut that shiat down. But until then how about a little live and let live where you don't piss in someone's corn flakes just because you don't like what some ignorant rednecks in Texas are doing to the education system.
2012-12-02 03:03:54 AM
4 votes:
Those damn atheists screwed up an opportunity for the Christians to get their way like they always do. If you have a problem with the atheist pointing out he has a right, too...then I really don't know what to say. He didn't try to tear down the displays (like someone did last year to the atheist displays) and he went through the proper legal channels to receive a result that fits with expected constitutional rights.

Saying "he sure is an asshole" seems pretty short sighted when people of non faith are constantly fighting an uphill and sometimes losing battle.

I'll find issue with this fight when there are stories of atheists interrupting church sermons at midnight mass or something
2012-12-02 02:47:23 AM
4 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Revek: That you come in talking about how atheist don't do this or don't' do that but the truth is that they just do different asshole things.

For example?

Revek: I just simply don't care how wrong you are about the tendency of atheist to be just as uncompromising in their quest to be... Well assholes

When are atheists uncompromising?

When they demand that the Constitution be applied equally to all groups? When they fight to keep "Intelligent Design" out of science textbooks? When, like one guy sues over "In God We Trust" on the money? OK, that guy's an ass, but I happen to agree it doesn't belong there. Nevertheless, that is like ONE guy. Unless he's your neighbor or a relative, you can easily ignore the whole thing.

What exactly do atheists do but talk on a TV that you can turn off, and write books you don't have to buy, and chat in threads that you don't have to read?


I always thought "E Pluribus Unum" made more sense on the money of a nation devoted to the theory of inclusion.
2012-12-02 02:33:10 AM
4 votes:
What happened to live and let live? All sorts of things go up on public land and I don't give a shiat. If I don't like the look of it, I don't look at it. Please don't fark up Christmas celebrations to a point to where no one gets the day off, guys.

/atheist
//If you take my Christmas day, I will CUT YOU!
2012-12-02 02:30:21 AM
4 votes:
Now, get "In God We Trust" off your fecking money, and you'll be able to take a few more steps away from ignorance.
2012-12-02 06:40:00 AM
3 votes:

Valiente: Now, get "In God We Trust" off your fecking money, and you'll be able to take a few more steps away from ignorance.


www.hotlikesauce.com
2012-12-02 04:49:58 AM
3 votes:

publikenemy: Stop fighting the atheists please. If you really wanted to piss them off, instruct every one of your church members to erect a nativity scene on their property as close to whatever road you live on. If you live in an apartment, maybe you can tape the scene to a big window or your front door.


That wouldn't piss off any atheists. In fact, that's the goal. The whole point is to keep it on private property. Then put up whatever you want and as much as you want. Do it year-round for all I care.
2012-12-02 03:29:32 AM
3 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: I see. And who decides what makes something "negative" or "dark?"

A crucifix is pretty dark


Being told you're going to spend an eternity burning in a lake of fire if you don't believe in a 2,000 year old book, seems pretty dark and negative to me.
2012-12-02 03:23:57 AM
3 votes:

Eddie Ate Dynamite: Lionel Mandrake: Chances are you did that stuff in church or at your house. Nobody says you shouldn't.

But the 1st Amendment is simple: if Christians get to put up their stuff on PUBLIC PROPERTY, then so does everyone else.

It's very simple. All or nothing.

Yeah I get that. But I also think it's a simplistic and...um...cold? way of looking at it. Putting up an "atheist display" that says "There is no God or heaven" is incredibly dark to somebody that needs to believe that, or using your display to shiat on the nativity scene next door. I guess what I'd be happy with is saying you can put up whatever you want as long as it's not negative or some such thing. Do you see what I'm driving at? I don't want special rights for the Christians or anybody else, but I don't want to see a bunch of people being assholes to each other under the guise of fairness or justice or equal rights either.


Didn't anyone read TFA? The whole reason these "anti-nativity" displays are coming up is because the polite approach (you know, lawsuits to have the nativity removed from public land) was tried and failed.

Thus were secular proponents forced to proceed to reductio ad absurdum. 

If the christians had just taken their displays away when they were asked nicely, the mocking would be unnecessary.
2012-12-02 03:21:04 AM
3 votes:

WorldCitizen: Put up all the nativity scenes you want on church or private property. It's easy.

Most people wanting to put them up on government property are probably the same who believe government is bad. Get off the government teat and put them up on your own or your church's property.


The venn diagram showing the intersection of people who complain about how the government should stay out of their personal business, the people who think the government should mind other people's personal business and the people who think the government should be a promoter of and enforcer for their religious beliefs and morals is very compacted. And depressing.
2012-12-02 03:12:48 AM
3 votes:

omgwtfetc: Living in Canada, when I (rarely) happen to mention to a religious person that I don't believe there is a God I don't get more than a "meh", so I don't understand why some atheists in the US seem to be so aggressive. But what I understand even less is the attitude that a lot of religious people in the States seem to have towards atheists. If you honestly believe that here is a God who loves you and will accept you into Heaven, but will send all these dirty non-believers to Hell, where is all the anger coming from? Shouldn't there be more pity than condescension, more love than hate? I know that if I believed I knew the ultimate nature of the Universe I'd feel a lot more secure. So... what's up with that?


Christians in America actively lobby the goverment to take freedoms away from other people to force them to follow what Christians believe is their god's laws. They use tax-free money to do this. What's not to love?
2012-12-02 02:50:51 AM
3 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: Not discriminating against a group's rights to free speech, can /also/ be done in various other times of the year, right? In that way, as long as you keep the agenda open to anybody wanting to participate, you can have your nativity scene around christmas, and some Nietsche quote during, I don't know, october or something.


Yup. All or nothing.

But why just a quote? If they can put up a big cross, can I put up a statue of Nietzsche? Or an upside-down cross?

The best, easiest and most reasonable solution is to keep them all off public property. There is a HELL of a lot of private property for all that.
2012-12-02 02:30:16 AM
3 votes:
I've always felt a little admiration for the Moslems' proscription on graven images. How soon archetypes become icons.
2012-12-02 01:20:36 AM
3 votes:

Revek: these assholes ... remind me of christian wingnuts


Bingo.
2012-12-02 11:28:54 AM
2 votes:

roblarky: A Nativity scene isn't infringing anyone's rights nor attempting to shove anything down their throats.


Nor is a sign that says "Happy Holidays" or "Love is within you", but that didn't stop them from being vandalized for not promoting the christian mythology.

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
2012-12-02 10:40:04 AM
2 votes:

HindiDiscoMonster: obviously you never had a family in childhood... you must have never had pie, or Christmas dinner, or presents or happy children in your life... I would hate to see what terrible memories you must have of childhood if it brings you to hate anyone who might have a good memory to express.

/I pitty and am sorry for you


Not everyone wants a "The White People TM" Christmas dickhead. You assholes are the reason we have Christmas carols going nonstop since Thanksgiving.
2012-12-02 10:30:52 AM
2 votes:
Good. Judge ruled correctly. I work in the Pacific Palisades/Malibu area. There are plenty of churches in the area to place these Nativity scenes on.
2012-12-02 06:26:22 AM
2 votes:

Terrible Old Man: Ah, Atheism. A religion just as arrogant, ignorant, and full of dickery as any other. Unfortunately, for a group of people with absolutely nothing to say, we sure hear a lot of it.


That was an awful lot of stupid packed into two brief sentences.
2012-12-02 04:43:28 AM
2 votes:

Drunk Astronaut: Speaking as an atheist, I wish these uppity PITA atheists would get off of their high horses, shut the hell up and let Christians have their Nativity scenes if it makes them happy.


Sorry, it's usually the Christians who get a bug up their ass whenever someone else comes along. You've got some serious gall to suggest that someone demanding that the First Amendment be respected is up on a high horse and that they should just "shut the hell up" (irony, considering this is the First Amendment at issue.)

Really, it doesn't offend me, or even hurt my sensitive widdle feewings in any way.

You wouldn't get offended that someone demands you be silenced because they don't like you? Cause that's what happens at damn near every one of these incidents and it's usually always the Christian groups biatching.
2012-12-02 04:26:15 AM
2 votes:

Revek: I believe that everything is at its best when it is in balance.


Right. No religious displays on public land. This includes everyone. How do you get more balanced than that?

There's one and only one other way that's balanced: everyone gets to put up religious displays on public property.

I'm good either way, but I think the "nobody" option would be waaaayy easier.
2012-12-02 04:07:33 AM
2 votes:
I find it ironic that the people complaining that the atheists in question are assholes are themselves assholes.
2012-12-02 04:05:52 AM
2 votes:

Drunk Astronaut: Speaking as an atheist, I wish these uppity PITA atheists would get off of their high horses, shut the hell up and let Christians have their Nativity scenes if it makes them happy.


No one is saying they can't have them. They want them removed from public buildings. You know, those building built with tax money and are used by the government. Or, they want public buildings open to all holiday displays from all religions, including those without religion.

How hard is that to understand?
2012-12-02 03:52:09 AM
2 votes:
Speaking as an atheist, I wish these uppity PITA atheists would get off of their high horses, shut the hell up and let Christians have their Nativity scenes if it makes them happy. Really, it doesn't offend me, or even hurt my sensitive widdle feewings in any way.

Merry Christmas if it applies to you.
Happy Hanukkah if you lean that way.
Have a joyous Ramadan if that's your thing.
And if you a FSM acolyte don't forget the parmesan.

Live and let live.
2012-12-02 03:47:54 AM
2 votes:

feckingmorons: It is a a bit silly, having a religious display on public land is not prohibited,


Actually, it is. 1st Amendment, no promotion of any religion or religions by the government.
2012-12-02 03:33:05 AM
2 votes:
Some of these so called "Atheists" need to chill the f*ck out. I'm an atheist, and I also believe in the philosophy of live and let live. Putting up decorations does not hurt me. Inventing holidays that are celebrated by giving gifts means I get to get and give gifts. Wheeee! What fun! And holidays, for whatever reason, are often cause for drinking and making merry. I'm all for that! So, chill out and let people believe what they want so long as it doesn't actually cause harm to somebody else. Aside from a hangover ;)
2012-12-02 03:21:43 AM
2 votes:

Eddie Ate Dynamite: Lionel Mandrake: Chances are you did that stuff in church or at your house. Nobody says you shouldn't.

But the 1st Amendment is simple: if Christians get to put up their stuff on PUBLIC PROPERTY, then so does everyone else.

It's very simple. All or nothing.

Yeah I get that. But I also think it's a simplistic and...um...cold? way of looking at it. Putting up an "atheist display" that says "There is no God or heaven" is incredibly dark to somebody that needs to believe that, or using your display to shiat on the nativity scene next door. I guess what I'd be happy with is saying you can put up whatever you want as long as it's not negative or some such thing. Do you see what I'm driving at? I don't want special rights for the Christians or anybody else, but I don't want to see a bunch of people being assholes to each other under the guise of fairness or justice or equal rights either.


I see. And who decides what makes something "negative" or "dark?"

A crucifix is pretty dark
2012-12-02 03:19:01 AM
2 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Chances are you did that stuff in church or at your house. Nobody says you shouldn't.

But the 1st Amendment is simple: if Christians get to put up their stuff on PUBLIC PROPERTY, then so does everyone else.

It's very simple. All or nothing.


Yeah I get that. But I also think it's a simplistic and...um...cold? way of looking at it. Putting up an "atheist display" that says "There is no God or heaven" is incredibly dark to somebody that needs to believe that, or using your display to shiat on the nativity scene next door. I guess what I'd be happy with is saying you can put up whatever you want as long as it's not negative or some such thing. Do you see what I'm driving at? I don't want special rights for the Christians or anybody else, but I don't want to see a bunch of people being assholes to each other under the guise of fairness or justice or equal rights either.
2012-12-02 03:14:22 AM
2 votes:
Am I the only one who is ticked off at this guy because he missed an opportunity to do something artsy with their display spots. (A chance that only comes ONCE a year.) Fine, you don't want to do a Nativity scene. Still, there are many families who like to look at the displays for art's sake. Much like the way even if you don't like Halloween, you can still get a kick at seeing how some people go all out on their costumes and decorating their front yard. So, why couldn't Vix do a lovely secular winter scene with Jack Frost and Frosty the Snowman or something similar and say that this way done by such and such Atheist group so all can enjoy it. But, no, Vix just puts up an ugly and very uncreative sign and displays dismissing religion all together. Way to win hearts and minds. I swear, this guy's people skills are of that of a worm. A dead worm.
2012-12-02 02:57:52 AM
2 votes:
The only bigger asshole then a Christian has got to be an Atheist what a bunch of dickheads.
2012-12-02 02:50:12 AM
2 votes:

HotWingAgenda: Revek: And how is it that the guy who wants in god we trust off the money is any different from the guy who want the nativity scene off the public land. To me, Both assholes. These things don't force you to go to church. They don't force you to believe. If it offends the eye then do not look upon it, My eyes

They're only asking government officials to stop violating the 1st Amendment prohibition on the government respecting an establishment of religion. It's not about feelings, it's about adherence to the supreme law of the land. How can a non-Christian expect due process at a courthouse covered in Christian labeling? How can I have faith that my government has my best interests in mind, if its very money is printed with a slogan for a religious group that has historically tortured and persecuted members of other religions?


Well said! Liberty and political freedoms are like muscles, if you don't use them, they shrink and go away. Putting up an "Anti-Nativity" isn't the point in itself, it's the flexing of religious freedoms, and pushing back against encroachment by the followers of a particular religion.
2012-12-02 02:36:55 AM
2 votes:
I have no problem with tasteful and respectful holiday displays from any religion or group.
2012-12-02 02:22:21 AM
2 votes:
Well now that the puns are over and the arguing has started.. I don't understand why an atheist would put up anything, other than to be a troll. Now I get your point, these churchy things should be on private land, I agree, but even if they all were, you would still put up whatever non-decoration it is you put up. You would put it up religiously, in fact. That's your right, to troll the hell out of people, and I'm fine with it, but I don't get it, with your analytical reasoning and facts and all, there are biological and evolutionary mysteries to solve and fretting about silly religious displays should be beneath you. It doesn't suit you.

Happy Holidays.
2012-12-02 01:42:46 AM
2 votes:

Revek: Lionel Mandrake: This About That: Revek: these assholes ... remind me of christian wingnuts

Bingo.

Yeah, those damn atheists always putting up displays on Darwin's birthday, even though the courts tell them EVERY. farkING. YEAR. to knock it off.

And then they use it as an excuse to whine about the WAR on science and reason!

Lets get this guy some clown shoes.


Do you have a point to make, or should I just ignore you?
2012-12-02 01:39:36 AM
2 votes:
The Puritans outlawed nativity scenes, so I guess these atheists are carrying on with a long Christian tradition. There's a tradition in Catalonia to include a caganer, or a little figure in mid bowel motion.
2012-12-05 11:40:01 PM
1 votes:

aerojockey: There are apparently a group (tiny according to you) of atheists you evidently don't want to exist, because you are unfathomably butthurt over the fact that I even bothered to mention them.


I am not remotely butt hurt.

I am simply pointing out that you are arguing with people who are not here ... apparently because you have no argument against actual atheism.

It is sad and pathetic that you cannot support anything you say. I asked you to produce one atheists from this thread that actually believes what you say we believe ... you produced nothing.

omeganuepsiilon has asked you several times to produce some support for your 'Materialism' claims ... you produced nothing.

You are a typical religious person ... attacking strawmen of your own creation because you cannot accept that your belief in magic is illogical and unsupported by evidence.

Go back to your mommy and daddy ... they'll tell you over and over that jesus loves you and that will make your weak mind feel better. It really is magic.
2012-12-05 01:37:23 AM
1 votes:
Bolded the wrong parts. It was the "adhering to" point that you had said and that I replied to.

One does not go down a list and pick a philosophy that they agree with and live by it's tenets. That is what you implied, and what I called you out on. There is no organization known as Materialism as you imply. There is no church, no worship. There is no large population of materialists, no clubs, no support groups, no community. All of which is what you imply by saying they're not a fringe group. You imply massive numbers.

A little bit of reading comprehension goes a long ways if you want to debate in a text based forum.
2012-12-05 01:10:18 AM
1 votes:

aerojockey: Farking Canuck: aerojockey: If the question is, "Is it a fact that there is no God?", then burden of proof is on those who claim there is no God.

Show me one person in this thread making this claim.

Why? Whether anyone's making the claim doesn't have any bearing on the truth or falsity of this statement.


Fine ... let's derail this thread into a discussion of how christians like to murder doctors.
2012-12-04 08:43:43 PM
1 votes:

aerojockey: I'm sure what you write is true, and really that simple, for some people calling themselves atheists, but I GUARANTEE you that a significant percentage of them privately believe in the non-existence of God


That is completely true ... I do not believe in the existence of god.

This is a completely different thing from making the claim that no gods exist.

One is a position taken based on the weight of available evidence and the other is a statement of certainty (which is subject to the burden of proof).

If you ask religious people, the majority of them will state that it is a fact that god exists. The opposite is not true of atheists. Therefore we do not bear the same burden of proof. Full stop.
2012-12-04 08:43:33 AM
1 votes:

aerojockey: OTOH, if a person flatly asserts, "God does not exist," then it's their burden of proof. (I do realize that many if not most atheists don't assert this, often precisely because they know that it's pretty much unprovable.)


Since you acknowledge that the majority of atheists are not making the positive claim then you must agree that the burden of proof remains on the religious.

There is no value in making a case against a small fringe group that nobody takes seriously.
2012-12-03 08:36:34 PM
1 votes:

Farking Canuck: It is one of the prime messages of christianity so you don't get to dodge it because it isn't explicitly spelled out in this display ... I'm sure it is on several billboards within 5 minutes drive of the site. It is told to us by the door-to-door harassers, the street-corner whack-jobs, and regularly by internet posters. The very concept of hell is the epitome of evil and any god that allows it to exist (much less who created it and uses it to satiate his sadistic needs) is evil.



Timothy 1:13
Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.

Re: epitomizing evil - are you talking about the hell described in Dante's inferno?

So now we're saying Dante's Inferno = the bible/the word of god

And I'm pretty sure the prime message of Christianity is, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Matthew 7:12

You said: I am not generalizing. I am directly addressing the people who do not understand this simple concept: When it is government property either everyone gets a fair chance to post what they want or nobody posts.


And I getcha man. I know you're not wrong. The question is: are you acting ethically?

I try to live my life according to Matty 7:12, so I find harassing people for the sake of harassing them somewhat offensive and I think it to be unethical.

You're right though, it's hypocritical to force my christian values on other people, I should be luke 6:29'n it.
2012-12-03 05:21:55 PM
1 votes:

porkloin: Let us all join hands and agree that what little we we know about the vast universe is completely piddling compared to that universe. Likewise, let us agree that what we know about our home planet is also quite meager. So, if one considers this slim ratio of what we know, to what we don't know, maybe we should all be a bit humble when spouting off about what actually is. Let us celebrate the huge mystery that confronts us on this spinning magnetic ball, and do our best to push back the veil of what we do not know.


And because we don't know answers ... let's argue that magic must be real!!!

/love the logic of religious people
2012-12-03 01:26:15 PM
1 votes:

MonoChango: Ok I don't really care about any of this, but... I do have one question for any hard core Atheist out there.
How can you prove a negative?
The few atheist I've met, all say pretty much the same thing, "There is no God, and only scientifically ignorant people would believe in such fairy tales about sky wizards."
OK, I can see that is a nice theory. Now how do you prove it?



You really don't prove negatives. The burden of proof is on those making the claim that something exists. People shouldn't just get to run up and shout, "Hey everyone, I have learned that we are being guided by a sentient pair of blue jeans travelling through the cosmos just out of reach of our scientific instruments, which I can speak to. If you can't prove I'm wrong, that means I win and I'm right."
2012-12-03 09:09:59 AM
1 votes:
To everyone who defends "In God We Trust" on currency:

How tolerant do you think you or other Xtians would be if instead it were changed to "Hail Satan!", "In Xenu we trust" or "Allah Akbar"? Yeah, I didn't think so.

It doesn't belong there, really. And if it's "not a big deal", why do you care if it gets removed?
2012-12-03 12:01:02 AM
1 votes:
If someone says that they believe that the moon is made of cheese, or that the government plots to fly planes into skyscrapers, or that the President is not a citizen, that person is rightfully branded as an idiot. When a person says that a Jew died in order that he be made a scapegoat, and that he was corporeally reassembled and will return again to save mankind, we should "live and let live". That's nonsense. That's not what Christians do. Christians set up their nonsense displays because it is advertising for their myth. They are constantly trying to use the law to advance their religion. The belief that life is eternal and that "the Lord will provide" leads to a decimation of resources and an absolute disregard for our environment. If the religious want to have their beliefs in their own home, or in their own church, then they won't have to hear from me. As soon as they make it public, or try to incorporate their religion into law, then they have chosen to be criticized. If that makes me an asshole, send me a t-shirt with "asshole" written on it, and I will wear it. There are real consequences to people's beliefs.
2012-12-02 07:25:18 PM
1 votes:

Proteios1: I guess I'm just now realizing how vindictive and petty atheists have become. Sounds like they are the angry, vindictive, preachy arseholes forcing their values on everyone else. you know,what they claim everyone else is.


Oh yes, so petty and vindictive, what with following the law, asking that the law be equally applied to all, and all that. Not like those kind, law-abiding Christians who vandalized the atheist displays, causing the city to pass the blanket ban, thus making it so no one could use public property for their displays. Those people are above reproach.
2012-12-02 04:54:16 PM
1 votes:

Repo Man: 4) Fowler's parents have cut off his financial support, kicked him out of the house, and thrown his belongings onto the front porch.


That may be the most righteous of all those Christian actions.

I don't get the total disconnect in people like this (and I am NOT talking about all Christians, and certainly none that I know). How do you pretend to worship a man/god that preached nothing but love and a hatred of hypocrisy, then cut off your kid completely for embarrassing you?
2012-12-02 02:31:21 PM
1 votes:

bigdanc: This kind of harassment needs to stop.


What harassment? If you want to promote your views on state property then it has to be open to other views as well.

There are two choices: Promote your views on private property or accept that views contradicting yours may be posted side-by-side with yours on public property.

Why do christians go all sandy-vagina when things are fair??
2012-12-02 11:13:49 AM
1 votes:

craig328:
Arlington national cemetery is public land as well...guess what you'll see all over the place there. Public land does not necessarily in and of itself mean no religious symbols whatsoever...mostly because it can be argued that banning such promotes atheism and is prohibiting the free exercise of religion.


Arlington is an example that supports what happened in this story. Any group can be represented there which means the government is not endorsing one religion (which is constitutionally sound). The following symbols are available for gravestones there:

img38.imageshack.us
2012-12-02 11:02:05 AM
1 votes:
meh... the courts got it right - allow all points of view to be displayed equally on public property, or allow nothing. That way - no one is offended - and no particular point of view is "supported' over a different point of view.

Quite frankly ... people that are so narrow minded, who believe only their particular 'point of view' is the 'correct' one, are people I typically want to stay as far, far away from as I possibly can.
2012-12-02 10:41:08 AM
1 votes:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Never turn your back on these people, for even a second.


I really do see where you're coming from, and it's honestly difficult to have to argue against it as I used to feel exactly the same.

However, I've decided to base my feelings on matters contextually. Meaning, in this context, it's not "obscene" nor hurting anybody, therefore I'm indifferent. When any group crosses that line, changing the context (like having the Ten Commandments on the courthouse steps), I would become vocal against it because it's a blatant effort to associate their beliefs with the legal system. A Nativity scene isn't infringing anyone's rights nor attempting to shove anything down their throats.

That's like stating that the thousands (no idea here, just pulling out a likely figure) of homeless people who are fed and sheltered by religious groups should be left hungry and sleeping on benches in said public parks because to allow Christians to feed and/or shelter them is somehow manipulating a person in desperation and somehow leads to Christians infringing on my rights or forcing their beliefs down my throat.

At the end of the day, most religions, when properly interpreted and practiced, have similar goals: be nice and do for others as you would hope they would do for you.

Sure, there are DROVES of religious people who interpret and selectively follow some parts while ignoring other areas; just as there are plenty of Atheists who set out to attack religion.

So for me, I choose my battles based on context. As I said earlier, Atheists should certainly exercise their right to setup a display, but I feel it should be used to show that we are just as caring and kind-spirited as our (rational, non-asshole) Christians are. That we're not a bunch of extremists set out to make people unhappy.

Just my thoughts, not my place to tell anyone what they should think.
2012-12-02 10:05:36 AM
1 votes:

HindiDiscoMonster: you of course know i was referring to your comment "Yup, sounds about right for a Christian..."


... and? A coalition of churches challenged the First Amendment as a violation of their religious rights. They do this shiat all the time. So, like I said: Yup, sounds about right for a Christian...
2012-12-02 09:51:21 AM
1 votes:

smadge1: Atheists can put up their atheistic displays on their national atheist holiday seasons.

Fairs fair


We do. We're celebrating the winter solstice. A tradition dating back long before the the story of Jesus was cobbled together from even older stories. It's a date backed by observation, reason and/or science.

These days, it's just a good time to have a party. End of the year... beginning of winter... not a bad time for presents, either, a nice boost to retailers to finish out the year. Chop down and drag an evergreen into the house and hang crap on it, just like jesus would've done. It's pretty.

Besides... the christians started it by co-opting winter solstice to celebrate the birthday of a character in a book that, apparently, wouldn't have even been born in december, according to clues given in their own book.

So, who's celebrating whose holiday?

Sorry dude. Axial tilt is the reason for the season. Nothing else.
2012-12-02 09:50:20 AM
1 votes:
Freely airing one's thoughts in a public forum through a decorative holiday display is only acceptable if you're a Xtian.

If you want to limit the ability of other people who disagree with you to air their opinions in proximity to you, stay on your goddamn property. Otherwise, if you're going to stand on your soapbox in the town square shouting you don't get to whine like a little biatch because other zealots show up and dilute your message.
2012-12-02 09:33:44 AM
1 votes:

HindiDiscoMonster: What exactly do atheistsChristians do but talk on a TV that you can turn off, and write books you don't have to buy, and chat in threads that you don't have to read?


I'm going to go with "Attempt to force their backward religious beliefs into laws, schools, and government so that everyone is subject to their moral traditions" for $1000, Alex.

HindiDiscoMonster: see how that works both ways?


Yeah, it works well, as long as you're more concerned with advancing your own litany than with being truthful...

HindiDiscoMonster: though most seem to simply disregard the inconvenient parts.


... and that about wraps that up.  Thanks for playing.
2012-12-02 09:24:23 AM
1 votes:

Studson: lordjupiter: When an Xtian tries to convert me or tell me I'm going to "Hell", is that "hate speech"? Not only are they disagreeing with my view of life and religion, they're threatening me with ETERNAL DAMNATION if I don't do what they say (and that's about the worst thing you can threaten someone with).

How is that acceptable, but freedom FROM that is "hate speech"? You farkers.

0/10
There was a shiat ton of wharrrrrgrrrbble on this thread. You win the prize for the most.



Enjoy your "hell", dipshiat.
2012-12-02 09:00:13 AM
1 votes:
Remember, you owe your right to be an atheist douchebag to the tolerance of your Christian neighbors.
2012-12-02 08:58:42 AM
1 votes:
Active outspoken Atheist here.
I really don't like the anti-nativity scenes. I find them repulsive.
What atheists should put up isn't anti-christian scenes, but pro-freedom, happiness, family, and real rather than imagined goods.
2012-12-02 08:40:05 AM
1 votes:
If someone happens to have no faith in a Creator, then the word 'atheist' is simply a descriptor or an attribute. Those who take on Atheist as an identity in itself can universally be regarded as smarmy, conceited, and belligerent tossers. This thread bears those facts out plainly.

The motivations for the Schoolboy Atheist are generally anger and resentment. Those who simply had no faith would have no interest in such discussions. It's safe to say that the common heathen just doesn't care -- but these lads here? They have serious mommy and daddy issues.
2012-12-02 08:25:27 AM
1 votes:

fireclown: That there is a dick move.


I know, right?... If the Xians hadn't vandalized the other displays, everyone could have had their holiday fun. Now no one can. What a bunch of assholes.

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


*Yawn*
2012-12-02 07:36:23 AM
1 votes:

Revek: That you seek to tell us all how this unknown thing is this way rather than that way. In this respect you are identical to the theist.


You're mistaken. Atheists don't give a fark what you believe or don't believe. They just want your religious bullshiat out of government and schools.

nmemkha:
I have no problem with tasteful and respectful holiday displays from any religion or group.


Neither do I. As long as they aren't on government property.

HotWingAgenda: Dude, shhhhhh. Just tell them that the worst, most infuriating thing they can do is worship privately without involving our governmental institutions.


Yeah, I'll tell you... what would really get my dander up is if I couldn't tell who believed in gods and who didn't. If all theists kept that shiat secret, and only prayed silently and privately?... man, that would drive me nuts. I'd feel like there were ninja-believers all around me, all the time. Shoot, I'd probably have to start believing in Jesus myself, I'd be so mad. Please Xians, continue to behave like whiny children every time someone challenges your infringement on the Establishment Clause, so I can continue hating the God that I secretly believe in deep down... I just don't know what I'd do if didn't have that fire to keep me warm at night.
2012-12-02 07:29:34 AM
1 votes:
Christians have to draw athiests into a shiat fight or they'll just continue to sink into irrelevance.

Some ethos desperately need an enemy for their on existence to be meaningful.
2012-12-02 07:28:40 AM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: The Supreme Court has ruled that when the government opens up public property to private citizens - when it creates a public forum for speech - it cannot discriminate in favor of some viewpoints and against others.


this is how the challenge for Citizens United should proceed. based upon this ruling. because when they said money=speech they themselves created a forum for speech that was inherently discriminatory on the basis of wealth.
2012-12-02 07:27:27 AM
1 votes:

RDixon: Xmas.

That is all.


I more or less despise Christianity, but even I have the courtesy of calling it "Christmas." "Xmas" to me has always come across as extremely petty and needlessly caustic unless the person using is it using it as a genuine abbreviation (which was common long before the "War on Christmas" was even a phrase).

There are many factual ways to irritate Christians if that's your thing, without resorting to denigrating their holiday. I irritate Christians frequently, but only via rebuttal to stupid claims on their part. But stooping to that as an insult is pretty damn douchey if you ask me.

/only celebrates Lord Kimbo Day
2012-12-02 07:11:50 AM
1 votes:

mekki: The public as by tradition. If they think what you are doing is negative and dark, there's a good chance it is. And if they deem you a dick for doing such displays, there's also a good chance you are.


To many Christians, anything involving, mentioning, or implying Atheism is considered "dark". I could very easily imagine enough people of Santa Monica would complain about even a simple "Have a Happy Winter Solstice and Holiday Season from the Atheists of Santa Monica" display, because atheism is "dark: to them (not to mention not directly referencing Christmas), to cause a problem.

No, the Santa Monica government did the right thing. They tried to allow all equally, the atheists followed the rules, and then someone (most likely Christian, with the slim possibility of an atheist or other doing it to stir up the pot) couldn't accept that the atheists were given equal voice and vandalized their displays. So, this time the government very rightly decided that it would be easier for all concerned if they just put a blanket ban on displays on PUBLIC PROPERTY (emphasis, because many people seem to be missing this key point here). All are banned equally. NONE are banned from putting displays up on private property.

And yet, it is the Christians who are complaining that their rights are being infringed because they are not being accorded special privileges, but rather all are being treated equally under the law.

Ed Grubermann: How hard is that to understand?


There seem to be an incredibly large number of people in this thread who are missing the point, either deliberately or out of ignorance. I guess it's just much easier to complain about uppity atheists demanding equal application of the law. :-/
2012-12-02 06:55:12 AM
1 votes:
www.iruntheinternet.com
2012-12-02 06:41:21 AM
1 votes:
i18.photobucket.com
2012-12-02 05:56:10 AM
1 votes:
Atheists can put up their atheistic displays on their national atheist holiday seasons.

Fairs fair
2012-12-02 04:59:26 AM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: publikenemy: Stop fighting the atheists please. If you really wanted to piss them off, instruct every one of your church members to erect a nativity scene on their property as close to whatever road you live on. If you live in an apartment, maybe you can tape the scene to a big window or your front door.

That wouldn't piss off any atheists. In fact, that's the goal.



Dude, shhhhhh. Just tell them that the worst, most infuriating thing they can do is worship privately without involving our governmental institutions.
2012-12-02 04:43:18 AM
1 votes:
As a Christian, I think the right decision was made. There should be nothing allowed on public property. In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw a nativity scene on public property in and around where I live.

Stop fighting the atheists please. If you really wanted to piss them off, instruct every one of your church members to erect a nativity scene on their property as close to whatever road you live on. If you live in an apartment, maybe you can tape the scene to a big window or your front door.

Really though, relax everyone. God is just creating these situations to sort it all out and draw out the believers and non-believers for Armageddon which he has to get done on the 21st of December because he doesn't want to make the Mayans look bad because they were righteous God fearing people..or something
2012-12-02 04:08:31 AM
1 votes:
Those displays were annoying.
2012-12-02 03:56:57 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: If atheists are going to be such PITAs, they're no better than the fundie, evangelical, charismatic, pentacostal assholes they look down upon. I can't be the only one who thinks their all boobies for tactics like these, can I? Besides, Christmas is a federal holiday, so it's not like it's all that religious anymore anyway.


Correct. It was never even a federal holiday until President Grant noted that there was so much absenteeism from federal workers that it may as well be a day off for all.
2012-12-02 03:50:29 AM
1 votes:

Duck_of_Doom: Or if you want to instigate, put up signs with all those Bible passages about idolatry, and how a nativity scene could be construed as idolatry. Or post real Christian verses, about giving up all your possessions to follow Christ, rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, what you do to the least of men you do to Jesus, etc.


Or just a quote from the Treaty of Tripoli.

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion . . .
2012-12-02 03:46:07 AM
1 votes:

mekki: Am I the only one who is ticked off at this guy because he missed an opportunity to do something artsy with their display spots. (A chance that only comes ONCE a year.) Fine, you don't want to do a Nativity scene. Still, there are many families who like to look at the displays for art's sake. Much like the way even if you don't like Halloween, you can still get a kick at seeing how some people go all out on their costumes and decorating their front yard. So, why couldn't Vix do a lovely secular winter scene with Jack Frost and Frosty the Snowman or something similar and say that this way done by such and such Atheist group so all can enjoy it. But, no, Vix just puts up an ugly and very uncreative sign and displays dismissing religion all together. Way to win hearts and minds. I swear, this guy's people skills are of that of a worm. A dead worm.


Great idea. No snark, that is a creative and fun idea. One need not be raging killjoys to get their point across.

Or maybe they should have done something educational. And not an upside down cross or Darwin statue, as someone suggested. The cross is instigation, and people will tune you out - not good if you want people to be open to what you have to say. Not to mention you're turning Darwin into an idol, a symbol for your ideas.

Or if you want to instigate, put up signs with all those Bible passages about idolatry, and how a nativity scene could be construed as idolatry. Or post real Christian verses, about giving up all your possessions to follow Christ, rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, what you do to the least of men you do to Jesus, etc.
2012-12-02 03:38:54 AM
1 votes:
If atheists are going to be such PITAs, they're no better than the fundie, evangelical, charismatic, pentacostal assholes they look down upon. I can't be the only one who thinks their all boobies for tactics like these, can I? Besides, Christmas is a federal holiday, so it's not like it's all that religious anymore anyway.
2012-12-02 03:24:56 AM
1 votes:

Spartan_Manhandler: omgwtfetc: Living in Canada, when I (rarely) happen to mention to a religious person that I don't believe there is a God I don't get more than a "meh", so I don't understand why some atheists in the US seem to be so aggressive. But what I understand even less is the attitude that a lot of religious people in the States seem to have towards atheists. If you honestly believe that here is a God who loves you and will accept you into Heaven, but will send all these dirty non-believers to Hell, where is all the anger coming from? Shouldn't there be more pity than condescension, more love than hate? I know that if I believed I knew the ultimate nature of the Universe I'd feel a lot more secure. So... what's up with that?

Christians in America actively lobby the goverment to take freedoms away from other people to force them to follow what Christians believe is their god's laws. They use tax-free money to do this. What's not to love?


This pisses me off. Religion and gov't should be separate. None of them should get tax exemptions or special rights; this would solve a lot of isues.
If you want to set up a display on private property have at it. Jesus wasn't born this time of year but whatever.
I'd like to get all canned holiday music banned. That sh*t makes me want to kick elves.
2012-12-02 03:24:06 AM
1 votes:

Eddie Ate Dynamite: Lionel Mandrake: Chances are you did that stuff in church or at your house. Nobody says you shouldn't.

But the 1st Amendment is simple: if Christians get to put up their stuff on PUBLIC PROPERTY, then so does everyone else.

It's very simple. All or nothing.

Yeah I get that. But I also think it's a simplistic and...um...cold? way of looking at it. Putting up an "atheist display" that says "There is no God or heaven" is incredibly dark to somebody that needs to believe that, or using your display to shiat on the nativity scene next door. I guess what I'd be happy with is saying you can put up whatever you want as long as it's not negative or some such thing. Do you see what I'm driving at? I don't want special rights for the Christians or anybody else, but I don't want to see a bunch of people being assholes to each other under the guise of fairness or justice or equal rights either.


Then they'd just complain that you're infringing on their right to tell you how you're going to suffer and roast for eternity for being such a sinful scumbag.
2012-12-02 03:16:14 AM
1 votes:

Revek: Lionel Mandrake: Revek: Atheist are trying to convince peaceful people who are not trying to knock on your door that they are right and theist are wrong without having any proof they are right. Sound familiar?

Where is this happening that you can't change the channel or put back the book or walk away from the asshole?

Revek: While you are worrying about them trying to take the science out of schools you should note they usually fail.

And "usually" is good enough for you? Maybe you also noticed that they never get up. And they'll keep on losing...until they win.

Yup its a average and averages are usually in the middle.


I don't know what that means.

But, I do know that you don't like to to answer questions directly.
2012-12-02 03:13:55 AM
1 votes:

log_jammin: Valiente: Now, get "In God We Trust" off your fecking money, and you'll be able to take a few more steps away from ignorance.

yes. such a major issue...


Hey, you got your church in your state, buddy, not me. It's why some call America "Fat Iran".
2012-12-02 02:57:26 AM
1 votes:
Living in Canada, when I (rarely) happen to mention to a religious person that I don't believe there is a God I don't get more than a "meh", so I don't understand why some atheists in the US seem to be so aggressive. But what I understand even less is the attitude that a lot of religious people in the States seem to have towards atheists. If you honestly believe that here is a God who loves you and will accept you into Heaven, but will send all these dirty non-believers to Hell, where is all the anger coming from? Shouldn't there be more pity than condescension, more love than hate? I know that if I believed I knew the ultimate nature of the Universe I'd feel a lot more secure. So... what's up with that?
2012-12-02 02:54:26 AM
1 votes:

inglixthemad: I always thought "E Pluribus Unum" made more sense on the money of a nation devoted to the theory of inclusion.


It was good enough for 180 years, but then...something something...and now people act like it was always "In God We Trust"
2012-12-02 02:48:36 AM
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: They're only asking government officials to stop violating the 1st Amendment prohibition on the government respecting an establishment of religion. It's not about feelings, it's about adherence to the supreme law of the land. How can a non-Christian expect due process at a courthouse covered in Christian labeling? How can I have faith that my government has my best interests in mind, if its very money is printed with a slogan for a religious group that has historically tortured and persecuted members of other religions?


I think you think too seriously about these things. Just let it go in these cases and you'll be much happier. It is what it is and this fight is better reserved for textbooks and national policy.
2012-12-02 02:44:26 AM
1 votes:

Revek: And how is it that the guy who wants in god we trust off the money is any different from the guy who want the nativity scene off the public land. To me, Both assholes. These things don't force you to go to church. They don't force you to believe. If it offends the eye then do not look upon it, My eyes


They're only asking government officials to stop violating the 1st Amendment prohibition on the government respecting an establishment of religion. It's not about feelings, it's about adherence to the supreme law of the land. How can a non-Christian expect due process at a courthouse covered in Christian labeling? How can I have faith that my government has my best interests in mind, if its very money is printed with a slogan for a religious group that has historically tortured and persecuted members of other religions?
2012-12-02 02:44:25 AM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: They are not trying to put up monuments to E=mc2 or the laws of thermodynamics.


They probably should be.
2012-12-02 02:43:20 AM
1 votes:

phrawgh: We can put the Christ back in Christmas but first things first. Let's somehow attempt to insert the Christ into Christian.


Truer words were never spoken. The problem with most Christians is that they get the word from the preacher instead of getting it from the book.

/That goes for Muslims to.
2012-12-02 02:42:19 AM
1 votes:
Just get a regular Nativity Scene diorama, and replace all of the people with those little bottles of booze they give you on the airplane.
Jack Daniels makes for the best baby Jebus.
2012-12-02 02:41:33 AM
1 votes:

Revek: That you seek to tell us all how this unknown thing is this way rather than that way. In this respect you are identical to the theist. And how is it that the guy who wants in god we trust off the money is any different from the guy who want the nativity scene off the public land. To me, Both assholes. These things don't force you to go to church. They don't force you to believe. If it offends the eye then do not look upon it, My eyes see it all with equal doubt and I am not offended.


Boy, you like to generalize don't you?

Atheists are not trying to put non-science into science classes. They are not trying to put up monuments to E=mc2 or the laws of thermodynamics. Atheists do not knock on your door.

Everything an atheist does is easily not read, not watched, not listened to or walked away from.
2012-12-02 02:37:42 AM
1 votes:
Not discriminating against a group's rights to free speech, can /also/ be done in various other times of the year, right? In that way, as long as you keep the agenda open to anybody wanting to participate, you can have your nativity scene around christmas, and some Nietsche quote during, I don't know, october or something.
2012-12-02 02:34:57 AM
1 votes:
This is like a long running Elephants turd.
2012-12-02 02:31:46 AM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Revek: That you come in talking about how atheist don't do this or don't' do that but the truth is that they just do different asshole things.

For example?

Revek: I just simply don't care how wrong you are about the tendency of atheist to be just as uncompromising in their quest to be... Well assholes

When are atheists uncompromising?

When they demand that the Constitution be applied equally to all groups? When they fight to keep "Intelligent Design" out of science textbooks? When, like one guy sues over "In God We Trust" on the money? OK, that guy's an ass, but I happen to agree it doesn't belong there. Nevertheless, that is like ONE guy. Unless he's your neighbor or a relative, you can easily ignore the whole thing.

What exactly do atheists do but talk on a TV that you can turn off, and write books you don't have to buy, and chat in threads that you don't have to read?


That you seek to tell us all how this unknown thing is this way rather than that way. In this respect you are identical to the theist. And how is it that the guy who wants in god we trust off the money is any different from the guy who want the nativity scene off the public land. To me, Both assholes. These things don't force you to go to church. They don't force you to believe. If it offends the eye then do not look upon it, My eyes see it all with equal doubt and I am not offended.
2012-12-02 02:27:00 AM
1 votes:
Whoops. Link didn't take.

Zombie Nativity Scene
2012-12-02 02:05:31 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: No, they aren't. Well, maybe someone somewhere is, but not in TFA.


From TFA: Three years ago, Vix asked the city government to let him put up an antireligious display in the park alongside the Nativity scenes.

That's what subby meant by anti-Nativity scene.

/not subby
2012-12-02 01:54:27 AM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Revek: Lionel Mandrake: This About That: Revek: these assholes ... remind me of christian wingnuts

Bingo.

Yeah, those damn atheists always putting up displays on Darwin's birthday, even though the courts tell them EVERY. farkING. YEAR. to knock it off.

And then they use it as an excuse to whine about the WAR on science and reason!

Lets get this guy some clown shoes.

Do you have a point to make, or should I just ignore you?


That you come in talking about how atheist don't do this or don't' do that but the truth is that they just do different asshole things. But by all means ignore me. I just simply don't care how wrong you are about the tendency of atheist to be just as uncompromising in their quest to be... Well assholes
2012-12-02 12:56:18 AM
1 votes:

jaylectricity: MaudlinMutantMollusk: that one's the wurst

Ugh.


Really.... I never sausage a thing
2012-12-02 12:35:04 AM
1 votes:
No, they aren't. Well, maybe someone somewhere is, but not in TFA.
 
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