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(Time)   Atheists are now creating their own anti-Nativity scenes   (ideas.time.com) divider line 478
    More: Interesting, nativity, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Yale Law School, Santa Monica  
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21978 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Dec 2012 at 2:23 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



478 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-02 02:05:30 PM  

ShawnDoc: Lionel Mandrake: I see. And who decides what makes something "negative" or "dark?"

A crucifix is pretty dark

Being told you're going to spend an eternity burning in a lake of fire if you don't believe in a 2,000 year old book, seems pretty dark and negative to me.


"My young son asked me what happens after we die. I told him we get buried under a bunch of dirt and worms eat our bodies. I guess I should have told him the truth - that most of us go to Hell and burn eternally - but I didn't want to upset him." - Jack Handey
 
2012-12-02 02:05:58 PM  
The dense and obtuse really crawled out of the woodwork for this thread, too many trolls to respond to.

I wish your decedents the best of luck in XXX years when Christians are considered a minority. Between education, immigration, and the birth-rates of other groups being high, it will happen eventually.

If our small problem of localized Dominionism is overcome by something more akin to Sharia Law(a fight that's happening in the UK iirc), then we'll see who's clamoring and campaigning for separation of church and state.
 
2012-12-02 02:13:06 PM  
This kind of harassment needs to stop. I understand that some atheists feel like the open expression of Christianity implies they're second class citizens.

And I don't think the ten commandments belong on court monuments.
I don't think Nativity Scenes belong at the state capitals.
I know that no prayers should be endorsed or led by public school teachers or principles.

But there is a big difference between expressing love for a spaghetti monster that may or may not be real and directed hate speech and harassment meant to belittle and/or humiliate and/or mock.

But no, the christians have been so mean to athiests and they've killed so many people so they deserve it! Even if they're individually good people, they're guilty by homeowners association!
 
2012-12-02 02:17:23 PM  

mutterfark: REO-Weedwagon: Atheists are the same as Westboro Baptist Church.

We are? But what do I put on the signs? 'THE UNIVERSE DOESN'T CARE IF YOU'RE GAY OR GET MARRIED AND NEITHER DO I'? And what kind of funerals am I supposed to show up at?


i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-02 02:20:24 PM  
i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-02 02:31:21 PM  

bigdanc: This kind of harassment needs to stop.


What harassment? If you want to promote your views on state property then it has to be open to other views as well.

There are two choices: Promote your views on private property or accept that views contradicting yours may be posted side-by-side with yours on public property.

Why do christians go all sandy-vagina when things are fair??
 
2012-12-02 02:39:35 PM  

machoprogrammer: If the militant atheists make it so we don't get Christmas off, I will become a Christian out of spite.


You see anyone complaining about the day off?
 
2012-12-02 02:39:43 PM  
Well, at least everybody understands the true meaning of Christmas: making sure everybody knows exactly where you stand politically.

My atheist nativity scene is going to be Barack and Michelle Obama as Mary and Joseph and maybe a mockup of the Constitution as Baby Jesus. I don't know who the wise men will be - maybe Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert and Rachel Maddow.

Or, if it's less trouble, maybe research and see if there are any Zoroastrian holiday traditions I can exploit. Zoroastrianism doesn't get nearly as much attention as the more glamorous religions.
 
2012-12-02 02:45:25 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: I don't know who the wise men will be - maybe Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert and Rachel Maddow.


I get it!! har har har
 
2012-12-02 02:47:28 PM  
I have to say, as an atheist, I'm not terribly offended by nativity scenes on public property, but I understand why others are.

It's a precedent thing. If you allow religious people to display their particular fairy tales on public property, they won't stop there. They'll use it to shoehorn religion into everything else (as they prove almost every day).

They don't want things to be fair. They want Christianity to be in charge of everything. And if they could, they'd make every other religion illegal, like other countries do to benefit Islam.

Just put the farking nativity in front of the church or your front yard and be done with it. How hard is that? Why does it have to go in front of city hall or the courthouse?

Answer: it doesn't, unless you're the kind of asshole who believes in rubbing it into other people's faces. That's the reason this shiat happens every year.
 
2012-12-02 02:48:51 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Smelly Pirate Hooker: I don't know who the wise men will be - maybe Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert and Rachel Maddow.

I get it!! har har har


I'm nothing if not subtle. I thought about Pelosi, Biden and Reid as the wise men, but thought that might be a little too much.
 
2012-12-02 02:52:44 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: I have to say, as an atheist, I'm not terribly offended by nativity scenes on public property, but I understand why others are.

It's a precedent thing. If you allow religious people to display their particular fairy tales on public property, they won't stop there. They'll use it to shoehorn religion into everything else (as they prove almost every day).

They don't want things to be fair. They want Christianity to be in charge of everything. And if they could, they'd make every other religion illegal, like other countries do to benefit Islam.

Just put the farking nativity in front of the church or your front yard and be done with it. How hard is that? Why does it have to go in front of city hall or the courthouse?

Answer: it doesn't, unless you're the kind of asshole who believes in rubbing it into other people's faces. That's the reason this shiat happens every year.


It's the typical complaint; Christians view having their special privileges revoked as persecution. Look at what happened to Damon Fowler.

Damon Fowler, an atheist student at Bastrop High School in Louisiana, was about to graduate. His public school was planning to have a prayer as part of the graduation ceremony: as they traditionally did, as so many public schools around the country do every year. But Fowler -- knowing that government-sponsored prayer in the public schools is unconstitutional and legally forbidden -- contacted the school superintendent to let him know that he opposed the prayer, and would be contacting the ACLU if it happened. The school -- at first, anyway -- agreed, and canceled the prayer.

Then Fowler's name, and his role in this incident, was leaked. As a direct result:

1) Fowler has been hounded, pilloried, and ostracized by his community.

2) One of Fowler's teachers has publicly demeaned him.

3) Fowler has been physically threatened. Students have threatened to "jump him" at graduation practice, and he has received multiple threats of bodily harm, and even death threats.

4) Fowler's parents have cut off his financial support, kicked him out of the house, and thrown his belongings onto the front porch.

Oh, and by the way? They went ahead and had the graduation prayer anyway .
 
2012-12-02 02:57:11 PM  

L.D. Ablo: I'd sure like to put up a display for Eris and hand out free hot dogs on Fridays.


What is stopping you? Or do you mean you would sure like to put up a display for Eris and hand out free hot dogs on Fridays on public property? If you want to do that on public property well you need to get the proper permits. Otherwise your are littering and possible vandalizing public property, not to mention disturbing the peace.
 
2012-12-02 03:01:23 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: But telling kids they are going to burn in fire is just peachy, right.


the ha ha guy: The churches already do that when they put up signs telling people that they're going to be tortured for eternity if they don't believe in the magical sky baby.

Are you saying that only Christians should be allowed to continue using borderline hate speech in their displays? Or are you saying that your greatest childhood memories are of seeing nativity displays with "believer" and "unbeliever" signs on each side, with the latter quoting Zechariah 14:12?



These generally aren't a part of traditional nativity displays.

In any given group you're going to have a percentage of assholes. If these people acting like assholes causes you to turn around and act like an asshole then we simply create a loop where, at the end, everybody's acting like an asshole because somebody else was an asshole to them. If we can't even use Christmas as a time to -not- be petulant children out to ruin somebody else's day then I think we might be farked as a society.

So now nobody can put up displays on the public property where nativity scenes had been featured for 60+ years because people ended up acting like spoiled brats and got their toys taken away altogether. So yeah, you got your equality under the law but now a Christmas tradition that brought happiness to a lot of folks over the years is no more. While it's the right thing legally, it's pretty farked up morally.

"But now it's the same for both sides and the Xians can just put their false beliefs up in the church yard! The atheists tried to have equal rights but people didn't like it when they put up displays denigrating a large segment of the population during a widely celebrated holiday, so now nobody gets to use the public land for anything, it's totally fair!" Don't be obtuse.
 
2012-12-02 03:03:47 PM  

WhippingBoy: This makes as much sense as putting up anti-leprechaun displays on St. Patrick's day.

What happened to you, Fat Iran? You used to be cool.


Hey buddy, I'm constantly complaining about the leprechaunists.

/aleprechaunist
 
2012-12-02 03:05:32 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: This About That: Revek: these assholes ... remind me of christian wingnuts

Bingo.

Seconded.


Third-ed

/or whatever
 
2012-12-02 03:22:09 PM  

feckingmorons: Just let the nativity scenes be set up on private property rather than public property.


That's really all the atheists are asking for.

But if public space and public funds are going to be used for religious displays, then we're entitled to the same.
 
2012-12-02 03:26:59 PM  
What would Christmas be without hate and intolerance?
 
2012-12-02 03:28:38 PM  
Repo Man: Oh, and by the way? They went ahead and had the graduation prayer anyway .


Sounds like the standards of the community prevailed.
 
2012-12-02 03:29:13 PM  
It's so interesting to watch people fighting and verbally blacking each other's eyes over symbols instead of actual, tangible realities.

NOT.

Please rub the crumbs n stickies outta your eyes, folks. You're being deliberately played.

If you want an alternative target, go after the mass media, which knowingly whips this stale, boring sh*tstorm up every gods damned year for nothing better than a greasy fistful of shiattily-scripted-blipvert dollars.

It's a deliberate, premeditated crime against the human intellect.
 
2012-12-02 03:30:33 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's a precedent thing. If you allow religious people to display their particular fairy tales on public property, they won't stop there. They'll use it to shoehorn religion into everything else (as they prove almost every day).


While it can be a precedent, it's not always. Sometimes it's just the image conveyed, almost as if one is advertising "We're a christian only community." And then the assholes of the group act like that.

That's why the city tried to allow for everything. Nothing wrong with that, it's the asshole vandals that broke the fairness., not the Atheists. The Atheists vandalized nothing(barring the possibility mentioned up thread of people doing it to make the religious look bad.....[and at that, it's not as if atheists have to do anything for that to happen, historically some do well enough on their own, not much motivates people to do stupid shiat like true zealotry...their only rivals are drunk rednecks who say, "Here, hold my beer").

That's what's farked up about these threads and why I said they're crawling out of the woodwork. The socially unacceptable behavior, vandalism, was the breaking point, and signs point to it being some of the religious people.
Yet, here we have a thread full of people blaming atheists for wrongdoing, very conveniently not grasping that point.
 
2012-12-02 04:39:12 PM  

Repo Man: [i50.tinypic.com image 600x600]


Damn, I want a Nietzsche sweater...
 
2012-12-02 04:41:02 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: get real: Separation from Church and state, I do not think you undersand.

don't be a dick... i don't think you get it.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 400x400]


The point is, that why should Christians get to set up stuff on PUBLIC property, but other religious groups are not.

I'm an atheist, and I have no personal issue with nativity scenes on public property, so long as other groups of people are allowed to use public property to promote their views also. The atheists got the right to do so and the Christians threw a hissy fit, thus leading the city to decide to ban any such displays, so they've only themselves to blame.
 
2012-12-02 04:45:12 PM  

Kittypie070: It's so interesting to watch people fighting and verbally blacking each other's eyes over symbols instead of actual, tangible realities.

NOT.

Please rub the crumbs n stickies outta your eyes, folks. You're being deliberately played.

If you want an alternative target, go after the mass media, which knowingly whips this stale, boring sh*tstorm up every gods damned year for nothing better than a greasy fistful of shiattily-scripted-blipvert dollars.

It's a deliberate, premeditated crime against the human intellect.


You forgot to yell "WAKE UP SHEEPLE".
 
2012-12-02 04:54:16 PM  

Repo Man: 4) Fowler's parents have cut off his financial support, kicked him out of the house, and thrown his belongings onto the front porch.


That may be the most righteous of all those Christian actions.

I don't get the total disconnect in people like this (and I am NOT talking about all Christians, and certainly none that I know). How do you pretend to worship a man/god that preached nothing but love and a hatred of hypocrisy, then cut off your kid completely for embarrassing you?
 
2012-12-02 05:20:24 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Kittypie070: It's so interesting to watch people fighting and verbally blacking each other's eyes over symbols instead of actual, tangible realities.

NOT.

Please rub the crumbs n stickies outta your eyes, folks. You're being deliberately played.

If you want an alternative target, go after the mass media, which knowingly whips this stale, boring sh*tstorm up every gods damned year for nothing better than a greasy fistful of shiattily-scripted-blipvert dollars.

It's a deliberate, premeditated crime against the human intellect.

You forgot to yell "WAKE UP SHEEPLE".



Are you too dense to figure out that I was deliberately avoiding that miserable, shiatty, demeaning phrase?
 
2012-12-02 05:21:34 PM  

L.D. Ablo: scalpod: L.D. Ablo: I'd sure like to put up a display for Eris and hand out free hot dogs on Fridays.

Maybe a monument to the Original Snub?

Golden apples for all!

Not that Discordianism is a real religion. It's just a joke. Right?


It's still real to me dammit!
 
2012-12-02 05:24:06 PM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


God evolved.
 
2012-12-02 05:25:35 PM  

trappedspirit: If you are wound up so tight that nativity scenes get your panties in a wad, then I have some bad news for you, your life is going to be miserable.


But if not having them causes you to suffer a conniption fit, you'll be just fine.
 
2012-12-02 05:29:41 PM  

trappedspirit: DaCaptain19: Puppets are - by definition - brainless beings.

And I am your puppet-master. I use the media to sow fear, hatred and discord while you march - under my controlling hand - to buy your petty guns for a lie I conjured and events which will never happen.

I call my puppets hu-MANS and I create them as fools.

DaCaptain19: Puppets, acting as I bid. These fools don't understand that not believing in God or myself takes more faith than believing.

And nobody knows or can accept that the very thing they report not to believe in is orchestrating their every move.

Fools.

Wow, you are really puppeting up the threads today


He enjoys putting his arm up other peoples' backsides, that's all. Nothing weird or anything.
 
2012-12-02 05:30:47 PM  

dopekitty74: HindiDiscoMonster: get real: Separation from Church and state, I do not think you undersand.

don't be a dick... i don't think you get it.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 400x400]

The point is, that why should Christians get to set up stuff on PUBLIC property, but other religious groups are not.

I'm an atheist, and I have no personal issue with nativity scenes on public property, so long as other groups of people are allowed to use public property to promote their views also. The atheists got the right to do so and the Christians threw a hissy fit, thus leading the city to decide to ban any such displays, so they've only themselves to blame.


and i agree with the ruling... like i said before... if nobody can play nice, nobody gets to play. :)
i also believe however, that when any group puts up something intended to troll another group, that is hateful... when someone can explain how a nativity scene is also hateful, then i won't have a problem with a hateful counterpoint... till then, i still say "don't be a dick"... thats all i was saying. nobody pissed on anyone's cheerios by putting up a nativity scene, but putting up something that is equivalent to EABOD in response is hateful. i saw - somewhere back in the thread an athiest sponsored message of love and understanding... now that would be something in line with a counter point to a nativity scene... something still saying love and understanding, but without the religious dogma.
 
2012-12-02 05:33:17 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: WhippingBoy: This makes as much sense as putting up anti-leprechaun displays on St. Patrick's day.

What happened to you, Fat Iran? You used to be cool.

Hey buddy, I'm constantly complaining about the leprechaunists.

/aleprechaunist


i could get behind that... except maybe: stoutprechaunist... :P
 
2012-12-02 05:40:49 PM  

Revek: Atheist are trying to convince peaceful people who are not trying to knock on your door that they are right and theist are wrong without having any proof they are right.


Proof they're right. How do they have any burden of proof? You don't get to just make shiat up and ask other people to prove you wrong.
 
2012-12-02 05:53:53 PM  

scalpod: L.D. Ablo: scalpod: L.D. Ablo: I'd sure like to put up a display for Eris and hand out free hot dogs on Fridays.

Maybe a monument to the Original Snub?

Golden apples for all!

Not that Discordianism is a real religion. It's just a joke. Right?

It's still real to me dammit!


It has some cool music.
 
2012-12-02 06:19:15 PM  
Repo Man: 4) Fowler's parents have cut off his financial support, kicked him out of the house, and thrown his belongings onto the front porch.

Lionel Mandrake: I don't get the total disconnect in people like this (and I am NOT talking about all Christians, and certainly none that I know). How do you pretend to worship a man/god that preached nothing but love and a hatred of hypocrisy, then cut off your kid completely for embarrassing you?



Parents aren't obligated to provide room and board for children who have reached majority. Christians are not justified in trying to impose beliefs upon someone who has plainly rejected those beliefs.

Occam's Razor would lead to the obvious conclusion that Fowler simply alienated his parents one time too many and they had enough.

If you do a bit of research, read his own words, you'll find this fellow is a bit of a twat- waffle whose main ambitions seem to be suing the parish school system or learning to be a video game programmer. Sounds like a real winner.
 
2012-12-02 07:09:03 PM  
I guess I'm just now realizing how vindictive and petty atheists have become. Sounds like they are the angry, vindictive, preachy arseholes forcing their values on everyone else. you know,what they claim everyone else is.
 
2012-12-02 07:14:37 PM  

Proteios1: I guess I'm just now realizing how vindictive and petty atheists have become. Sounds like they are the angry, vindictive, preachy arseholes forcing their values on everyone else. you know,what they claim everyone else is.


Just now, if you don't count all of the other times you've posted essentially the same shiat.
 
2012-12-02 07:15:05 PM  

Proteios1: I guess I'm just now realizing how vindictive and petty atheists have become. Sounds like they are the angry, vindictive, preachy arseholes forcing their values on everyone else. you know,what they claim everyone else is.


Yes ... asking for equal rights and to have the constitution followed by government bodies is being an "angry, vindictive, preachy arsehole".

But christians using government facilities to shove their ridiculous beliefs down everyone's throats is being "kind, warm and loving people". Right??
 
2012-12-02 07:25:18 PM  

Proteios1: I guess I'm just now realizing how vindictive and petty atheists have become. Sounds like they are the angry, vindictive, preachy arseholes forcing their values on everyone else. you know,what they claim everyone else is.


Oh yes, so petty and vindictive, what with following the law, asking that the law be equally applied to all, and all that. Not like those kind, law-abiding Christians who vandalized the atheist displays, causing the city to pass the blanket ban, thus making it so no one could use public property for their displays. Those people are above reproach.
 
2012-12-02 07:42:25 PM  

mamoru: Proteios1: I guess I'm just now realizing how vindictive and petty atheists have become. Sounds like they are the angry, vindictive, preachy arseholes forcing their values on everyone else. you know,what they claim everyone else is.

Oh yes, so petty and vindictive, what with following the law, asking that the law be equally applied to all, and all that. Not like those kind, law-abiding Christians who vandalized the atheist displays, causing the city to pass the blanket ban, thus making it so no one could use public property for their displays. Those people are above reproach.


Well, if the non believers would only be content with their second class status, we'd have none of these problems.
 
2012-12-02 07:58:33 PM  

JosephFinn: feckingmorons: It is a a bit silly, having a religious display on public land is not prohibited,

Actually, it is. 1st Amendment, no promotion of any religion or religions by the government.


Allowing any (as in any point of view, not restricting it to one or another) is not prohibited. I think you're talking about "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; "

Why people get all worked up about this is beyond me. If the Presbyterians want to have a Christmas display on the City Hall lawn let them as long as you let the Secular Humanists have a display on the lawn about evolution. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
2012-12-02 08:08:07 PM  
www.planetcalypsoforum.com
 
2012-12-02 08:12:23 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Revek: That you seek to tell us all how this unknown thing is this way rather than that way. In this respect you are identical to the theist. And how is it that the guy who wants in god we trust off the money is any different from the guy who want the nativity scene off the public land. To me, Both assholes. These things don't force you to go to church. They don't force you to believe. If it offends the eye then do not look upon it, My eyes see it all with equal doubt and I am not offended.

Boy, you like to generalize don't you?

Atheists are not trying to put non-science into science classes. They are not trying to put up monuments to E=mc2 or the laws of thermodynamics. Atheists do not knock on your door.

Everything an atheist does is easily not read, not watched, not listened to or walked away from.


So is Christian, and Jewish, and Muslim, and Wiccan.... After all, this is not 1984, and laws do go back to the Bible, and before that. Hammurabi anyone?
 
2012-12-02 08:15:57 PM  

Proteios1: I guess I'm just now realizing how vindictive and petty atheists have become. Sounds like they are the angry, vindictive, preachy arseholes forcing their values on everyone else. you know,what they claim everyone else is.


10/10, if we're going on amount of replies. 0/10 for content, complete lack of originality yet full of false assertions

Equal rights is not so much a value, as the most efficient means to peaceful civilization.

_____________________________

What I see as somewhat humorous, is that the wingnut section of religious people(in the US at any rate) has lost their ability to keep women down(aside from some leftover societal artifacts), losing the fight against keeping gays as second class citizens, and long ago lost the whole slavery issue, and because they're no longer able to wage actual war against other religions... have resorted to attempting to villify atheists to give the appearance that they're not the bottom rung of society.

Most jewish people really don't care much, and of the other religions that do, christians are allying themselves with the muslims in this fight against the "godless"(and women, and gays, and other races..down to bombing family planning clinics). Seriously the similarities between those two religion's societal views are staggering in number. How farked up is that?

How many christian zealots would shiat the proverbial brick if you gave them a detailed list like that?
 
2012-12-02 08:35:26 PM  

Proteios1: I guess I'm just now realizing how vindictive and petty atheists have become. Sounds like they are the angry, vindictive, preachy arseholes forcing their values on everyone else. you know,what they claim everyone else is.


Atheists are human. Just people. So if people sometimes seem petty, then atheists will sometimes seem petty. If people sometimes seem ignorant, then atheists will sometimes seem ignorant.

The important thing to remember is that these faults spring from being human, not from being atheist. Just as with Christians. The concept of being atheist is not inferior to any other state of being. The concept of being Christian isn't either. This is also something atheists would do well to keep in mind when the temptation to constantly bash Christians arises.

/agnostic
 
2012-12-02 10:09:32 PM  
God, I hate religious people. Atheists are the worst of them, though.
 
2012-12-02 10:29:30 PM  

letrole: Repo Man: Oh, and by the way? They went ahead and had the graduation prayer anyway .


Sounds like the standards of the community prevailed.


LOL. Now THAT's some trolling right there!

8/10
minus two for tardiness, but you found your groove in the end.
 
2012-12-02 10:43:35 PM  
We need to come up with some atheist Christmas carols so that we can spread some atheist cheer during the holidays.

♫Away in a manger, no crib for a bed.
The little Lord Jesus soon will be dead!
The stars in the sky look down where he lay.
The little Lord Jesus, an excuse to hate gays!♫

♫Oh come let us ignore him!
Oh come let us ignore him!
OH COME LET US IGNORE HI-IM,
Christ aint the Lord!♫

♫The first Noel, an angel they say
Was to ignorant shepherds in fields where they lay;
In fields, where they lay making up shiat,
On a cold winter's ni-ight what a bunch of twits!
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel,
born is the myth of Israel!♫

♫Silent night, Wednesday Night
All is calm, but somethin aint right
Said she's a virgin
What the fark's with the child
Illegitimate infant, it looks like she lied
Sleeps with everbody-y!
Sle-eeps with everybody!♫
 
2012-12-02 10:56:52 PM  

ewurm: We need to come up with some atheist Christmas carols so that we can spread some atheist cheer during the holidays.


No. No, we do not.
 
2012-12-02 11:13:51 PM  

gadian: What happened to live and let live? All sorts of things go up on public land and I don't give a shiat. If I don't like the look of it, I don't look at it. Please don't fark up Christmas celebrations to a point to where no one gets the day off, guys.

/atheist
//If you take my Christmas day, I will CUT YOU!


This.

This is why I don't get all the complaints regarding Christmas. Nobody get's that many holidays off a year, why would you fark with that?

/hell, go out during any hunting season and you'll realize that most people have no idea what or where public land even *is*.
//hunters accidentally hunting on private land.
///non hunters complain about hunters who are actually hunting on public land completely legally.
//\: even my slashies facepalm
 
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