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(Time)   Atheists are now creating their own anti-Nativity scenes   (ideas.time.com) divider line 478
    More: Interesting, nativity, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Yale Law School, Santa Monica  
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21972 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Dec 2012 at 2:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-02 04:29:12 AM

Revek: A true troll instinctively know what will evoke a response from another. Every thing I said in this thread was sincere. I believe that everything is at its best when it is in balance. Atheist and theist and I have called myself both with sincerity are the easiest to troll. By troll? I mean to invoke their passionate disagreement in hope I can show how they are both wrong. You however recognize that both arguments are the same and equal. You do not however recognize the truth that the guy in the middle while equally sincere is just as unfortunately equal. I have no doubt that most people are sincere in their beliefs and express them as such. I just want everyone to understand that no matter what they should tolerate others if the expect to be tolerated..


Ok. I've read this about 8 times now and I have no clue what it is you are trying to say. The only thing I can come up with is that alcohol is involved.
 
2012-12-02 04:31:33 AM

mutterfark: Anti-Nativity? Would that be a N.I.B.?

In a 1992 interview, Geezer Butler states that the title simply refers to Bill Ward's goatee at the time, which the rest of the band thought was shaped like a pen nib; also referred to as nibby.[2] Apparently, Geezer Butler said: "Originally it was Nib, which was Bill's beard. When I wrote N.I.B., I couldn't think of a title for the song, so I just called it Nib, after Bill's beard. To make it more intriguing I put punctuation marks in there to make it N.I.B. By the time it got to America, they translated it to Nativity In Black."

 
2012-12-02 04:31:53 AM
Found this over at another site:


A lawyer representing a group of churches that appears to have lost their bid to continue a nearly 60-year-old tradition of hosting a Nativity scene at a park in the beach city of Santa Monica, Calif., says the battle to preserve Christmas displays in the national public square has been lost.

"When [Monday] (11/19/2012), United States District Court Judge Audrey B Collins delivered a 28-page ruling denying my client the right to continue a 59-year-old tradition of exhibiting Nativity scenes along Ocean Boulevard in the City of Santa Monica this Christmas season, another dagger plunged into the heart of America's twilight customs and traditions. The sneered-at 'war on Christmas' was effectively lost for good," wrote William J. Becker, Jr., of The Becker Law Firm, in an article.

A controversy over the display about the birth of Jesus at Palisades Park erupted last Christmas season when an atheist group "manipulated" the city's lottery system for spaces, according to the Santa Monica Nativity Scene Committee, resulting in only two booths for the Christian group that normally uses 14 booths for the various Nativity-related scenes.

Last Monday, Judge Audrey B. Collins denied a request from the committee to erect the large displays, primarily on the grounds that the city's administration was overburdened with the permit process for the displays, according to Becker. A temporary injunction to allow the displays to go up this Christmas season was not allowed.

Becker wrote in his article that the case has not been dismissed (at least not yet), but it appears that an upcoming hearing on Dec. 3 will be about a motion to dismiss the lawsuit against the city of Santa Monica.

"As lead counsel for the Santa Monica Nativity Scenes Committee, a nonprofit made up of local churches and the police union, it is not my intention to surrender the cause," he states. "But the legal theories we presented to support the preservation of the Nativity tradition in Santa Monica and which the court rejected in their entirety are the identical legal theories advanced in opposition to the City's motion to dismiss ... I lack the cheery optimism (or delusional hope) the trend will somehow magically reverse course, carrying us safely back to dock in the port of redemption. I fancy myself an able advocate, not a miracle worker."

Hunter Jameson, head of the Nativity scene committee, told The Christian Post on Monday that it is a shame that the atheist activist group swayed the city to eliminate the tradition.

"It's a very sad day when a small number of people with an axe to grind, people who do not like Christianity, and who do not like God, are able to prevail by manipulating rules to censor our message from the public place where it has been displayed for the enjoyment of millions of people for nearly 60 years," Jameson said.

"It's even sadder that a city government would allow itself to go along with this effort to try to snuff out a message that a small group of people did not agree with," Jameson added.

The group's lawyer summed up: "Traditions like the Nativity displays in Palisades Park Traditions like the Nativity displays in Palisades Park, religious tolerance and common sense can always look to tomorrow. But, I fear, in my naïve way, not before the gravitational pull of society's regressive 'progressive' movement has tired of battle." 



There is some mighty fine derp in there, especially the dagger comment.
 
2012-12-02 04:32:40 AM

Lionel Mandrake: Revek: I believe that everything is at its best when it is in balance.

Right. No religious displays on public land. This includes everyone. How do you get more balanced than that?

There's one and only one other way that's balanced: everyone gets to put up religious displays on public property.

I'm good either way, but I think the "nobody" option would be waaaayy easier.


I am sure that some christians would say that no display supports atheism!
 
2012-12-02 04:33:57 AM

Mock26: I am sure that some christians would say that no display supports atheism!


heh...I've heard far more ridiculous things from the religious right.
 
2012-12-02 04:35:50 AM
People on fark drinking... Never! However going with long tradition that I understand you but you don't understand me answer this first and I will unpack that statement to your hearts desire.

Not a troll. I like to smack a troll around sometimes, but all my comments are sincere.

How exactly do you smack around a troll? If they are truly trolling how do you piss on their parade, prove them wrong or otherwise do anything to smack them other than not respond.
 
2012-12-02 04:37:37 AM
Goddamn atheists.
 
2012-12-02 04:43:18 AM
As a Christian, I think the right decision was made. There should be nothing allowed on public property. In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw a nativity scene on public property in and around where I live.

Stop fighting the atheists please. If you really wanted to piss them off, instruct every one of your church members to erect a nativity scene on their property as close to whatever road you live on. If you live in an apartment, maybe you can tape the scene to a big window or your front door.

Really though, relax everyone. God is just creating these situations to sort it all out and draw out the believers and non-believers for Armageddon which he has to get done on the 21st of December because he doesn't want to make the Mayans look bad because they were righteous God fearing people..or something
 
2012-12-02 04:43:28 AM

Drunk Astronaut: Speaking as an atheist, I wish these uppity PITA atheists would get off of their high horses, shut the hell up and let Christians have their Nativity scenes if it makes them happy.


Sorry, it's usually the Christians who get a bug up their ass whenever someone else comes along. You've got some serious gall to suggest that someone demanding that the First Amendment be respected is up on a high horse and that they should just "shut the hell up" (irony, considering this is the First Amendment at issue.)

Really, it doesn't offend me, or even hurt my sensitive widdle feewings in any way.

You wouldn't get offended that someone demands you be silenced because they don't like you? Cause that's what happens at damn near every one of these incidents and it's usually always the Christian groups biatching.
 
2012-12-02 04:44:12 AM

Revek: How exactly do you smack around a troll? If they are truly trolling how do you piss on their parade, prove them wrong or otherwise do anything to smack them other than not respond.


It's easy actually. you just use their words against them, until they get caught in a trap of their own doing. At that point they usually slink away.
 
2012-12-02 04:44:46 AM

Lionel Mandrake: mutterfark: Anti-Nativity? Would that be a N.I.B.?

In a 1992 interview, Geezer Butler states that the title simply refers to Bill Ward's goatee at the time, which the rest of the band thought was shaped like a pen nib; also referred to as nibby.[2] Apparently, Geezer Butler said: "Originally it was Nib, which was Bill's beard. When I wrote N.I.B., I couldn't think of a title for the song, so I just called it Nib, after Bill's beard. To make it more intriguing I put punctuation marks in there to make it N.I.B. By the time it got to America, they translated it to Nativity In Black."


Thanks for ruining my already weak joke.:b (but thanks for a cool bit of rock trivia:D)
 
2012-12-02 04:47:35 AM
There was a group locally that was going for something like this. People who get tired of hearing about God and then press their beliefs on others don't realize they are the opposite of the same coin.
 
2012-12-02 04:49:06 AM

Mock26: Lionel Mandrake: Revek: I believe that everything is at its best when it is in balance.

Right. No religious displays on public land. This includes everyone. How do you get more balanced than that?

There's one and only one other way that's balanced: everyone gets to put up religious displays on public property.

I'm good either way, but I think the "nobody" option would be waaaayy easier.

I am sure that some christians would say that no display supports atheism!


You sir know just what to say to keep them going.
 
2012-12-02 04:49:58 AM

publikenemy: Stop fighting the atheists please. If you really wanted to piss them off, instruct every one of your church members to erect a nativity scene on their property as close to whatever road you live on. If you live in an apartment, maybe you can tape the scene to a big window or your front door.


That wouldn't piss off any atheists. In fact, that's the goal. The whole point is to keep it on private property. Then put up whatever you want and as much as you want. Do it year-round for all I care.
 
2012-12-02 04:50:19 AM
Photoshop contest?
 
2012-12-02 04:52:25 AM

log_jammin: Revek: How exactly do you smack around a troll? If they are truly trolling how do you piss on their parade, prove them wrong or otherwise do anything to smack them other than not respond.

It's easy actually. you just use their words against them, until they get caught in a trap of their own doing. At that point they usually slink away.


A troll cares nothing for traps or for how you use their words. They just want a response. They slink away because your boringly predictable.
 
2012-12-02 04:52:59 AM

mutterfark: Thanks for ruining my already weak joke.:b (but thanks for a cool bit of rock trivia:D)


I really couldn't make it any lamer, so tried to make everyone feel better after reading it with a little factoid.

/
 
2012-12-02 04:54:13 AM
Xmas.

That is all.
 
2012-12-02 04:58:14 AM

Revek: A troll cares nothing for traps or for how you use their words. They just want a response. They slink away because your boringly predictable.


I'm fully aware of how trolls work and what they are after. why they end up slinking away is open to interpretation and depends on the troll.
 
2012-12-02 04:58:14 AM

Lionel Mandrake: publikenemy: Stop fighting the atheists please. If you really wanted to piss them off, instruct every one of your church members to erect a nativity scene on their property as close to whatever road you live on. If you live in an apartment, maybe you can tape the scene to a big window or your front door.

That wouldn't piss off any atheists. In fact, that's the goal. The whole point is to keep it on private property. Then put up whatever you want and as much as you want. Do it year-round for all I care.


I know, I was being sarcastic. I really believe there is only a minuscule portion of Christians of any kind who would actually want to fight a fight like this. Most don't even go to church..cough..cough..(me)..and those that do, are too busy with their daily lives, as all of us are, to get aggressive about it.
 
2012-12-02 04:58:54 AM
mutterfark:

That's a kick-ass vid, btw. The sound is excellent. I'll have to check out the whole concert.
 
2012-12-02 04:59:26 AM

Lionel Mandrake: publikenemy: Stop fighting the atheists please. If you really wanted to piss them off, instruct every one of your church members to erect a nativity scene on their property as close to whatever road you live on. If you live in an apartment, maybe you can tape the scene to a big window or your front door.

That wouldn't piss off any atheists. In fact, that's the goal.



Dude, shhhhhh. Just tell them that the worst, most infuriating thing they can do is worship privately without involving our governmental institutions.
 
2012-12-02 05:01:42 AM

publikenemy: Lionel Mandrake: publikenemy: Stop fighting the atheists please. If you really wanted to piss them off, instruct every one of your church members to erect a nativity scene on their property as close to whatever road you live on. If you live in an apartment, maybe you can tape the scene to a big window or your front door.

That wouldn't piss off any atheists. In fact, that's the goal. The whole point is to keep it on private property. Then put up whatever you want and as much as you want. Do it year-round for all I care.

I know, I was being sarcastic. I really believe there is only a minuscule portion of Christians of any kind who would actually want to fight a fight like this. Most don't even go to church..cough..cough..(me)..and those that do, are too busy with their daily lives, as all of us are, to get aggressive about it.


I took the last part as sarcasm, but that part seemed real...or more likely to be real, anyway.

Damn that Poe and Law!!
 
2012-12-02 05:02:45 AM

log_jammin: Revek: A troll cares nothing for traps or for how you use their words. They just want a response. They slink away because your boringly predictable.

I'm fully aware of how trolls work and what they are after. why they end up slinking away is open to interpretation and depends on the troll.


I think the just get bored.
 
2012-12-02 05:05:33 AM

Revek: I think the just get bored.


some do. Some end up contradicting themselves so badly they find they don't have an out. some just thread shiat and leave so they don't have to back up anything they say. some aren't trolls and are just really really stupid people who don't have a clue what thy are talking about.
 
2012-12-02 05:07:14 AM

log_jammin: Revek: I think the just get bored.

some do. Some end up contradicting themselves so badly they find they don't have an out. some just thread shiat and leave so they don't have to back up anything they say. some aren't trolls and are just really really stupid people who don't have a clue what thy are talking about.


Wheres my contradiction or am I sincere?
 
2012-12-02 05:14:29 AM

Lionel Mandrake: Lionel Mandrake: they never get up

never give up


I was gonna say... you want to see a religious man get up? Put an 8-year-old boy in the same room.

/I'm here all night.
 
2012-12-02 05:19:01 AM
Atheists are the same as Westboro Baptist Church.
 
2012-12-02 05:19:58 AM

Revek: Wheres my contradiction or am I sincere?


drunk.
 
2012-12-02 05:23:54 AM

REO-Weedwagon: Atheists are the same as Westboro Baptist Church.


i159.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-02 05:26:17 AM

log_jammin: Revek: Wheres my contradiction or am I sincere?

drunk.


You are! Me to.
How is being drunk a contradiction of anything I said tonight/this morning. Come on don't disappoint you have been doing so well.
 
2012-12-02 05:28:10 AM

Lionel Mandrake: mutterfark:

That's a kick-ass vid, btw. The sound is excellent. I'll have to check out the whole concert.


Just a lucky find when I Googled NIB.
BTW I think the factoid is hilarious because my family moved from Cali to WV in '77 when I was 13 and everybody there saw Satanism under every rock song. Kiss was Knights In Satan's Service, etc. I was a long-haired kid from Hippyland and generally suspect so I was regularly informed of the threat to my everlasting soul.

OT...Was raised Catholic but I'm an atheist and frankly none of this seems worth the rise in blood pressure.
 
2012-12-02 05:28:33 AM

Fibro: Lionel Mandrake: Lionel Mandrake: they never get up

never give up

I was gonna say... you want to see a religious man get up? Put an 8-year-old boy in the same room.

/I'm here all night.


You know that's funny. Even if you are boring intolerant atheist troll
 
2012-12-02 05:30:59 AM

publikenemy: If you really wanted to piss them off, instruct every one of your church members to erect a nativity scene on their property as close to whatever road you live on. If you live in an apartment, maybe you can tape the scene to a big window or your front door.


Why the fark would we care what you do on your own property?
 
2012-12-02 05:33:14 AM

Revek: How is being drunk a contradiction of anything I said tonight/this morning.


You being drunk doesn't contradict anything you've said. What is does do is make you difficult to understand what you are trying to say.
 
2012-12-02 05:33:21 AM

JosephFinn: feckingmorons: It is a a bit silly, having a religious display on public land is not prohibited,

Actually, it is. 1st Amendment, no promotion of any religion or religions by the government.


Actually, the text of the First Amendment is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It's about creating laws. It says they can't make a law establishing a religion or a law banning it. Using the amendment as an excuse to push one agenda or another in the guise of "it offends me" has been taken to the ludicrous extreme that we see today. Arlington national cemetery is public land as well...guess what you'll see all over the place there. Public land does not necessarily in and of itself mean no religious symbols whatsoever...mostly because it can be argued that banning such promotes atheism and is prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

For legislators and the chief executive who swear an oath to God on a religious text when they take office, this kind of idiocy seems fairly...well...contrived.
 
2012-12-02 05:40:52 AM

REO-Weedwagon: Atheists are the same as Westboro Baptist Church.


We are? But what do I put on the signs? 'THE UNIVERSE DOESN'T CARE IF YOU'RE GAY OR GET MARRIED AND NEITHER DO I'? And what kind of funerals am I supposed to show up at?
 
2012-12-02 05:48:00 AM

craig328: It's about creating laws. It says they can't make a law establishing a religion or a law banning it. Using the amendment as an excuse to push one agenda or another in the guise of "it offends me" has been taken to the ludicrous extreme that we see today. Arlington national cemetery is public land as well...guess what you'll see all over the place there.


Graves marked with the religions of the people buried there. All of the religions. Including those with no religion.

Public land does not necessarily in and of itself mean no religious symbols whatsoever...mostly because it can be argued that banning such promotes atheism and is prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

Oh, look. Someone doesn't know the difference between secular and atheist. Typical whiny little God-botherer.
 
2012-12-02 05:56:10 AM
Atheists can put up their atheistic displays on their national atheist holiday seasons.

Fairs fair
 
2012-12-02 06:01:54 AM

log_jammin: Revek: How is being drunk a contradiction of anything I said tonight/this morning.

You being drunk doesn't contradict anything you've said. What is does do is make you difficult to understand what you are trying to say.


which part i;m not that drunk. What i'm saying is that all parties that is the for and against crowd are full of shiat. Sue to get your own useless display like in the article but be respectful instead of being an ass. if you don't really care that much about whether public land is used for impotent displays of something that can't be proved to have happened then just STFU. If you care that much then get out you wallet and prove your sincerity and create your own opinion how things are(you know that thing i call the universe but some call creation). But If your like me just ignore it all. There is a nativity scene less than 100 feet from me on public land. I drove by it at least 10 times today and I can't remember seeing once although i know its there. I think its a fairy tale personally but I would not try to talk anyone out of their belief in it. Having said that its still funny to watch the responses of people that believe they have a truth from a unknown and unknowable whether they are for it or against it. Go read this page Shouldn't take more than a week or two if you really wan't to understand what I believe. Of course I don't believe/agree with all of it just some(Its allowed) of it. You have to figure out which parts. Apathetic Agnostic
 
2012-12-02 06:04:31 AM
This is why we can't have nice things.
 
2012-12-02 06:06:17 AM
I am Jesus
 
2012-12-02 06:08:19 AM
Imagine no religions, no Twinkies too!
 
2012-12-02 06:17:34 AM

ransack.: I am Jesus


Go mow my lawn.... Dude
 
2012-12-02 06:22:53 AM
Ah, Atheism. A religion just as arrogant, ignorant, and full of dickery as any other. Unfortunately, for a group of people with absolutely nothing to say, we sure hear a lot of it.
 
2012-12-02 06:23:31 AM

omgwtfetc: I don't understand why some atheists in the US seem to be so aggressive.


Because the christian movement in the US can get very oppressive.

Here's a thread that made Fark.
Link

In a nutshell, atheists "unblessed" a highway, because when it was blessed, the prayer more or less asked for non-believers to be jailed or not allowed to enter town.

Ah, here's the part from the publicly posted prayer:
If they will not submit to God's way of living, then the prayer is to have them incarcerated or removed from the county. We prey for salvation of each person and the full knowledge of Jesus Christ as Savior.

Some backstory, See:
Some of their past behavior, such as having the police arrest atheists and forcibly remove them from town meetings(all for simply talking before the meeting was actually started), arresting an atheist with more than a dozen deputies dressed like SWAT....one who....tried to use the Freedom Of Information Act to see how legit the use of the sheriff department's credit card and on the clock sheriff deputies and other personnel to uproot and transfer tax-payer property (jail basketball goals) to eight area churches.....on a bogus felony charge because she put "Esq" on her name on the form.

From:
Link

See also:
http://free2think.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1414

Same town. Sure, it's one of the worse examples, but the phenomenon is hardly rare. Lots of smaller towns still have that vibe of Dominionism going and or tend to favor christianity, not as a majority practicing, but as town and even state making actual allowances for(and against what the church dislikes). Just look at gay marriage laws, hell, even what kinds of consensual sex between consenting adults is illegal.

Is it any wonder that Atheists can get up in arms over the separation of church and state and lack therof? This is what can happen when that division is not maintained. Christians not only harassing atheists, but arresting and jailing them on trumped up charges.
 
2012-12-02 06:26:22 AM

Terrible Old Man: Ah, Atheism. A religion just as arrogant, ignorant, and full of dickery as any other. Unfortunately, for a group of people with absolutely nothing to say, we sure hear a lot of it.


That was an awful lot of stupid packed into two brief sentences.
 
2012-12-02 06:30:28 AM
*slinks away*
 
2012-12-02 06:33:37 AM

Terrible Old Man: Ah, Atheism. A religion just as arrogant, ignorant, and full of dickery as any other. Unfortunately, for a group of people with absolutely nothing to say, we sure hear a lot of it.


1. Not a religion, more typically a lack of one.
2. Atheism =/= apathy or not caring. What we do care about is abuse of science, and abuse of other people, really, any rational human being should.

To remain apathetic in the case of what I posted above is just a smidge sociopathic, it may be a good idea for you to see a shrink.

Here's the thing about atheists. We don't hate groups of people for their religion. We hate individual assholes who go out of their way to argue against proven science, or try as hard as they can to make others conform or GTFO their town.

Sure, there are some legitimate assholes in any given gathering of people, though there is no reason for you all to go flaming bigot and pretend "they" are all alike.

/at least some of you found a way to feel superior to everyone else, religious or non-
 
2012-12-02 06:35:19 AM

Terrible Old Man: Ah, Atheism. A religion just as arrogant, ignorant, and full of dickery as any other. Unfortunately, for a group of people with absolutely nothing to say, we sure hear a lot of it.




Anti-nativity scenes? Now it's willfully ignorant mithra/fertility goddess worshippers versus those oh so pleasant people who believe in nothing and never miss a chance to remind you about it.
 
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