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(Time)   Atheists are now creating their own anti-Nativity scenes   (ideas.time.com) divider line 443
    More: Interesting, nativity, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Yale Law School, Santa Monica  
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21978 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Dec 2012 at 2:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-02 03:24:06 AM  

Eddie Ate Dynamite: Lionel Mandrake: Chances are you did that stuff in church or at your house. Nobody says you shouldn't.

But the 1st Amendment is simple: if Christians get to put up their stuff on PUBLIC PROPERTY, then so does everyone else.

It's very simple. All or nothing.

Yeah I get that. But I also think it's a simplistic and...um...cold? way of looking at it. Putting up an "atheist display" that says "There is no God or heaven" is incredibly dark to somebody that needs to believe that, or using your display to shiat on the nativity scene next door. I guess what I'd be happy with is saying you can put up whatever you want as long as it's not negative or some such thing. Do you see what I'm driving at? I don't want special rights for the Christians or anybody else, but I don't want to see a bunch of people being assholes to each other under the guise of fairness or justice or equal rights either.


Then they'd just complain that you're infringing on their right to tell you how you're going to suffer and roast for eternity for being such a sinful scumbag.
 
2012-12-02 03:24:46 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: I see. And who decides what makes something "negative" or "dark?"

A crucifix is pretty dark



Maybe lighten up the mood with a noose and a guillotine?
 
2012-12-02 03:24:56 AM  

Spartan_Manhandler: omgwtfetc: Living in Canada, when I (rarely) happen to mention to a religious person that I don't believe there is a God I don't get more than a "meh", so I don't understand why some atheists in the US seem to be so aggressive. But what I understand even less is the attitude that a lot of religious people in the States seem to have towards atheists. If you honestly believe that here is a God who loves you and will accept you into Heaven, but will send all these dirty non-believers to Hell, where is all the anger coming from? Shouldn't there be more pity than condescension, more love than hate? I know that if I believed I knew the ultimate nature of the Universe I'd feel a lot more secure. So... what's up with that?

Christians in America actively lobby the goverment to take freedoms away from other people to force them to follow what Christians believe is their god's laws. They use tax-free money to do this. What's not to love?


This pisses me off. Religion and gov't should be separate. None of them should get tax exemptions or special rights; this would solve a lot of isues.
If you want to set up a display on private property have at it. Jesus wasn't born this time of year but whatever.
I'd like to get all canned holiday music banned. That sh*t makes me want to kick elves.
 
2012-12-02 03:25:44 AM  
The religious groups sued when their displays were taken down as the "nothing" approach in "all or nothing". It's just not fair that we can't promote our religion on public space!
 
2012-12-02 03:26:23 AM  

Kurmudgeon: What city and how did their officials do in the last election?
/just curious


This is in Santa Monica, CA. No idea how the city politics play out. It was all over the news a week or so ago when the city announced they decided it was too much hassle, and wouldn't let anyone put up anything on city property, and then were immediately sued by the Christian groups who claimed they had a right to put up nativity scenes on public property.

So basically, for the last 50 years the city let the religious groups put up nativity scenes. After pressure from atheist and non-Christian groups, the city held a lottery last year for the spaces. The Christian groups got upset, and at least one sued, because they only got to put up 1/3rd the number of nativities scenes as they wanted. So this year the city says, "We're tired of this shiat, so you know what, we're just going to not let anyone put anything up on city property", and the Christian groups immediately sue and make the talk show circuit whining about how they are being oppressed.
 
2012-12-02 03:29:32 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: I see. And who decides what makes something "negative" or "dark?"

A crucifix is pretty dark


Being told you're going to spend an eternity burning in a lake of fire if you don't believe in a 2,000 year old book, seems pretty dark and negative to me.
 
2012-12-02 03:30:12 AM  

Eddie Ate Dynamite: I guess what I'd be happy with is saying you can put up whatever you want as long as it's not negative or some such thing.


Which in itself is another problem I guess. You don't (and shouldn't) have the right to not be offended. And I'm generally against legislating morality. I don't know man..just...EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY GOD DAMMIT.

I think what we need is a Santa-bot that murders anybody who deliberately acts like an asshole during the month of December.

Putting up displays to make Christians feel like shiat? .50 cal to the face
Passive-aggressive biatchiness to your son-in-law because he's not a billionaire hedge-fund manager? Garroted while checking on the turkey
Not waving at the guy for letting you into traffic? A-10 strafing run

I want to see forced smiles and warm-wishes through gritted teeth and a palpable sense of terror at any social contact for fear of getting gakked because you inadvertently slipped back into being an asshole before Jan 1.
 
2012-12-02 03:31:48 AM  

Eddie Ate Dynamite: Eddie Ate Dynamite: I guess what I'd be happy with is saying you can put up whatever you want as long as it's not negative or some such thing.

Which in itself is another problem I guess. You don't (and shouldn't) have the right to not be offended. And I'm generally against legislating morality. I don't know man..just...EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY GOD DAMMIT.

I think what we need is a Santa-bot that murders anybody who deliberately acts like an asshole during the month of December.

Putting up displays to make Christians feel like shiat? .50 cal to the face
Passive-aggressive biatchiness to your son-in-law because he's not a billionaire hedge-fund manager? Garroted while checking on the turkey
Not waving at the guy for letting you into traffic? A-10 strafing run

I want to see forced smiles and warm-wishes through gritted teeth and a palpable sense of terror at any social contact for fear of getting gakked because you inadvertently slipped back into being an asshole before Jan 1.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-02 03:32:05 AM  

Errk: Pork....

[thechive.files.wordpress.com image 500x375]


NOT KOSHER
 
2012-12-02 03:33:05 AM  
Some of these so called "Atheists" need to chill the f*ck out. I'm an atheist, and I also believe in the philosophy of live and let live. Putting up decorations does not hurt me. Inventing holidays that are celebrated by giving gifts means I get to get and give gifts. Wheeee! What fun! And holidays, for whatever reason, are often cause for drinking and making merry. I'm all for that! So, chill out and let people believe what they want so long as it doesn't actually cause harm to somebody else. Aside from a hangover ;)
 
2012-12-02 03:34:45 AM  

ShawnDoc: Lionel Mandrake: I see. And who decides what makes something "negative" or "dark?"

A crucifix is pretty dark

Being told you're going to spend an eternity burning in a lake of fire if you don't believe in a 2,000 year old book, seems pretty dark and negative to me.


Yeah but these are both way separate issues. A crucifix isn't party of a nativity scene, and as far as I remember aren't part of any Christmas displays, if they are that's pretty farked up. The cross is for Easter. And the whole judging thing and telling people they're going to hell if they don't believe is pretty dark and isn't something that should be done, and should not be a part of a Christmas display or message. It's wrong when either side acts like a biatch, whether it's legal or not.
 
2012-12-02 03:37:55 AM  
Sadly by banning all displays, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, complete with scary meatball eyes gets banned too.
 
2012-12-02 03:38:54 AM  
If atheists are going to be such PITAs, they're no better than the fundie, evangelical, charismatic, pentacostal assholes they look down upon. I can't be the only one who thinks their all boobies for tactics like these, can I? Besides, Christmas is a federal holiday, so it's not like it's all that religious anymore anyway.
 
2012-12-02 03:39:15 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Revek: Lionel Mandrake: Revek: Atheist are trying to convince peaceful people who are not trying to knock on your door that they are right and theist are wrong without having any proof they are right. Sound familiar?

Where is this happening that you can't change the channel or put back the book or walk away from the asshole?

Revek: While you are worrying about them trying to take the science out of schools you should note they usually fail.

And "usually" is good enough for you? Maybe you also noticed that they never get up. And they'll keep on losing...until they win.

Yup its a average and averages are usually in the middle.

I don't know what that means.

But, I do know that you don't like to to answer questions directly.


Oh it was a direct answer but you are to far to one side of the problem to see it. Try this 'specific boy' live and let live. don't rock the boat. chill out. Don't get your panties in a wad. turn the other cheek. Find something else to worry about like that male pattern baldness or the ozone layer.  And for your obviously comprehension deprived brain. Try not to be so butthurt that the majority don't have a problem with a fantasy of the origin of one their symbols being displayed on public land.
 
2012-12-02 03:39:35 AM  
What's the under/over on how many more times this story gets green-lit?
 
2012-12-02 03:41:07 AM  

Eddie Ate Dynamite: (holy-day, by the way, religion is sorta the reason you have the day off) t


Nah. It was because of a bunch of rich treasonists that didn't want to pay taxes.
 
2012-12-02 03:41:33 AM  

Kevin72: Sadly by banning all displays, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, complete with scary delicious meatball eyes gets banned too.


FTFY.
 
2012-12-02 03:42:00 AM  

Revek: Try not to be so butthurt that the majority don't have a problem with a fantasy of the origin of one their symbols being displayed on public land.


then why are you so butthurt about people doing the exact same thing? because, again, that's all that happened.
 
2012-12-02 03:42:40 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: Eddie Ate Dynamite: (holy-day, by the way, religion is sorta the reason you have the day off) t

Nah. It was because of a bunch of rich treasonists that didn't want to pay taxes.


Ms. Stroud approves.

damox.com
 
2012-12-02 03:44:12 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Eddie Ate Dynamite: Lionel Mandrake: Chances are you did that stuff in church or at your house. Nobody says you shouldn't.

But the 1st Amendment is simple: if Christians get to put up their stuff on PUBLIC PROPERTY, then so does everyone else.

It's very simple. All or nothing.

Yeah I get that. But I also think it's a simplistic and...um...cold? way of looking at it. Putting up an "atheist display" that says "There is no God or heaven" is incredibly dark to somebody that needs to believe that, or using your display to shiat on the nativity scene next door. I guess what I'd be happy with is saying you can put up whatever you want as long as it's not negative or some such thing. Do you see what I'm driving at? I don't want special rights for the Christians or anybody else, but I don't want to see a bunch of people being assholes to each other under the guise of fairness or justice or equal rights either.

I see. And who decides what makes something "negative" or "dark?"


The public as by tradition. If they think what you are doing is negative and dark, there's a good chance it is. And if they deem you a dick for doing such displays, there's also a good chance you are.

Why put up things that most people would see as instigating? Why not put up beautiful secular displays that all can enjoy? Instead of a Nativity scene, put up a scene from you favorite secular winter themed book, movie or painting. Something Jack Frost related from the recently released movie, Rise of the Guardians, would have won more kids' and parents' hearts than a simple banner condemning the displays that actually look like someone put some thought into it.
 
2012-12-02 03:45:59 AM  

JustTheTip: Well said! Liberty and political freedoms are like muscles, if you don't use them, they shrink and go away. Putting up an "Anti-Nativity" isn't the point in itself, it's the flexing of religious freedoms, and pushing back against encroachment by the followers of a particular religion.


Precisely.
 
2012-12-02 03:46:07 AM  

mekki: Am I the only one who is ticked off at this guy because he missed an opportunity to do something artsy with their display spots. (A chance that only comes ONCE a year.) Fine, you don't want to do a Nativity scene. Still, there are many families who like to look at the displays for art's sake. Much like the way even if you don't like Halloween, you can still get a kick at seeing how some people go all out on their costumes and decorating their front yard. So, why couldn't Vix do a lovely secular winter scene with Jack Frost and Frosty the Snowman or something similar and say that this way done by such and such Atheist group so all can enjoy it. But, no, Vix just puts up an ugly and very uncreative sign and displays dismissing religion all together. Way to win hearts and minds. I swear, this guy's people skills are of that of a worm. A dead worm.


Great idea. No snark, that is a creative and fun idea. One need not be raging killjoys to get their point across.

Or maybe they should have done something educational. And not an upside down cross or Darwin statue, as someone suggested. The cross is instigation, and people will tune you out - not good if you want people to be open to what you have to say. Not to mention you're turning Darwin into an idol, a symbol for your ideas.

Or if you want to instigate, put up signs with all those Bible passages about idolatry, and how a nativity scene could be construed as idolatry. Or post real Christian verses, about giving up all your possessions to follow Christ, rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, what you do to the least of men you do to Jesus, etc.
 
2012-12-02 03:47:54 AM  

feckingmorons: It is a a bit silly, having a religious display on public land is not prohibited,


Actually, it is. 1st Amendment, no promotion of any religion or religions by the government.
 
2012-12-02 03:50:02 AM  

log_jammin: Revek: Try not to be so butthurt that the majority don't have a problem with a fantasy of the origin of one their symbols being displayed on public land.

then why are you so butthurt about people doing the exact same thing? because, again, that's all that happened.


I'm not butthurt I'm a notorious troll having fun saying things I really believe to people who I know are not going to change their minds.

/Or as I like to call it insomnia theater.
//From one troll to another I shouldn't have to tell you this.
 
2012-12-02 03:50:29 AM  

Duck_of_Doom: Or if you want to instigate, put up signs with all those Bible passages about idolatry, and how a nativity scene could be construed as idolatry. Or post real Christian verses, about giving up all your possessions to follow Christ, rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, what you do to the least of men you do to Jesus, etc.


Or just a quote from the Treaty of Tripoli.

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion . . .
 
2012-12-02 03:51:10 AM  

BSABSVR: Errk: Pork....

[thechive.files.wordpress.com image 500x375]

Why is there what appears to be a sedan on the right hand side of the nativity scene?


Didn't they all go in one Accord?
 
2012-12-02 03:52:09 AM  
Speaking as an atheist, I wish these uppity PITA atheists would get off of their high horses, shut the hell up and let Christians have their Nativity scenes if it makes them happy. Really, it doesn't offend me, or even hurt my sensitive widdle feewings in any way.

Merry Christmas if it applies to you.
Happy Hanukkah if you lean that way.
Have a joyous Ramadan if that's your thing.
And if you a FSM acolyte don't forget the parmesan.

Live and let live.
 
2012-12-02 03:52:58 AM  

headhurt: BSABSVR: Errk: Pork....

[thechive.files.wordpress.com image 500x375]

Why is there what appears to be a sedan on the right hand side of the nativity scene?

Didn't they all go in one Accord?


I just realized...it's a camel.
 
2012-12-02 03:53:54 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Or just a quote from the Treaty of Tripoli.

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion . . .


See, great idea. They can title the display "The History Of Christmas In America". Include that, some quotes from Jefferson, the stuff about Christmas being banned by Puritans, Washington crossing the Delaware... Educational.
 
2012-12-02 03:56:57 AM  

Yoyo: If atheists are going to be such PITAs, they're no better than the fundie, evangelical, charismatic, pentacostal assholes they look down upon. I can't be the only one who thinks their all boobies for tactics like these, can I? Besides, Christmas is a federal holiday, so it's not like it's all that religious anymore anyway.


Correct. It was never even a federal holiday until President Grant noted that there was so much absenteeism from federal workers that it may as well be a day off for all.
 
2012-12-02 03:57:02 AM  

Revek: I'm not butthurt I'm a notorious troll having fun saying things I really believe to people who I know are not going to change their minds.


Very odd definition of "troll"

Revek: //From one troll to another I shouldn't have to tell you this.


Not a troll. I like to smack a troll around sometimes, but all my comments are sincere.
 
2012-12-02 04:05:52 AM  

Drunk Astronaut: Speaking as an atheist, I wish these uppity PITA atheists would get off of their high horses, shut the hell up and let Christians have their Nativity scenes if it makes them happy.


No one is saying they can't have them. They want them removed from public buildings. You know, those building built with tax money and are used by the government. Or, they want public buildings open to all holiday displays from all religions, including those without religion.

How hard is that to understand?
 
2012-12-02 04:05:58 AM  

Drunk Astronaut: Merry Christmas if it applies to you.
Happy Hanukkah if you lean that way.
Have a joyous Ramadan if that's your thing.
And if you a FSM acolyte don't forget the parmesan.


You're a few months late for Ramadan, and it's a while before Eid-al-Ahda.

Bountiful Kwanzaa if you like that sort of thing.
Festive Solstice if you swing that way too.

/I'm just waiting for January to roll around, so we can all get slammed to honor Janus.
 
2012-12-02 04:06:10 AM  
The real miracle is that a woman married to a construction worker tald him a, the kid wasn't his, and b, she was still a virgin, and not only kept her teeth but got him to believe her. Then again, maybe old Yusef had spent a few too many years working in the sun.
 
2012-12-02 04:06:52 AM  

This About That: An anti-Nativity scene would be a lean-to where animals bleat, shiat, smell, and eat hay from the manger.

// Where can I get some "barn smell" scent spray?


don't use that chemical spray for gosh sake! it's no good for you. just take a walk, most people do not clean up after their pets (they are horrible people who will burn in hell for their sins). just scoop up some of the Real McCoy in a plastic bag and toss it right in the display. the Devil's in the details, mate!
 
2012-12-02 04:07:33 AM  
I find it ironic that the people complaining that the atheists in question are assholes are themselves assholes.
 
2012-12-02 04:08:31 AM  
Those displays were annoying.
 
2012-12-02 04:08:46 AM  

scalpod: L.D. Ablo: I'd sure like to put up a display for Eris and hand out free hot dogs on Fridays.

Maybe a monument to the Original Snub?


Golden apples for all!

Not that Discordianism is a real religion. It's just a joke. Right?
 
2012-12-02 04:11:40 AM  
Do Scientologists celebrate X-mas, or do they have their own winter holiday?

/and why isn't "scientologist" in the Google Chrome dictionary?
 
2012-12-02 04:15:15 AM  

Revek: Oh it was a direct answer but you are to far to one side of the problem to see it.


Yes. I'm far on the side of equal access to Constitutional rights. Guilty

Try this 'specific boy' live and let live. don't rock the boat. chill out. Don't get your panties in a wad. turn the other cheek. Find something else to worry about like that male pattern baldness or the ozone layer. And for your obviously comprehension deprived brain. Try not to be so butthurt that the majority don't have a problem with a fantasy of the origin of one their symbols being displayed on public land.

Look at that. And you complain about other people having their panties in a wad? Other people being butthurt? I think maybe you're the asshole that pisses you off.After an insult-laden rant like that, I don't think you're in a good position to complain about how atheists behave.

Live and let live means letting the atheists have their say along with everyone else's. If they annoy you, walk away. That's what I do when annoying people are annoying me by being annoying.
 
2012-12-02 04:17:36 AM  

Drunk Astronaut: Speaking as an atheist, I wish these uppity PITA atheists would get off of their high horses, shut the hell up and let Christians have their Nativity scenes if it makes them happy.


There are plenty of places on private property to do just that.

Knock yourselves out.
 
2012-12-02 04:18:08 AM  

log_jammin: Revek: I'm not butthurt I'm a notorious troll having fun saying things I really believe to people who I know are not going to change their minds.

Very odd definition of "troll"

Revek: //From one troll to another I shouldn't have to tell you this.

Not a troll. I like to smack a troll around sometimes, but all my comments are sincere.


A true troll instinctively know what will evoke a response from another. Every thing I said in this thread was sincere. I believe that everything is at its best when it is in balance. Atheist and theist and I have called myself both with sincerity are the easiest to troll. By troll? I mean to invoke their passionate disagreement in hope I can show how they are both wrong. You however recognize that both arguments are the same and equal. You do not however recognize the truth that the guy in the middle while equally sincere is just as unfortunately equal. I have no doubt that most people are sincere in their beliefs and express them as such. I just want everyone to understand that no matter what they should tolerate others if the expect to be tolerated..
 
2012-12-02 04:20:03 AM  
I hate, loath, and despise christmas. But, nativity scenes on public land do not bother me in the least bit. I just ignore them. Nor do I see them as an endorsement of christianity. I see them as an endorsement of christmas. Yeah, yeah, the name "christ" appears in christmas, but to me the holiday has always been more about kindness, good cheer, and being nice to each other. The whole jesus thing secondary to this. But, I have to say that I do approve of the idea for others to request to put up displays on public land. Everyone has the same rights.
 
2012-12-02 04:21:42 AM  
I want to see someone put up a display of a migrant worker picking crops or an illegal immigrant washing dishes. I would find that very funny.
 
2012-12-02 04:23:31 AM  

Mock26: I want to see someone put up a display of a migrant worker picking crops or an illegal immigrant washing dishes. I would find that very funny.


27.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-02 04:24:58 AM  

ShawnDoc: and the Christian groups immediately sue and make the talk show circuit whining about how they are being oppressed


Yes, most people get upset when their freedom of speech and expression are curtailed.
Oh well, that's California, they do what they do.
 
2012-12-02 04:25:43 AM  
Out of curiosity, how much land did these things take up in the public park(s)? Were the 21 lots so big that they made the park all buy unusable?
 
2012-12-02 04:26:14 AM  

Mock26: I want to see someone put up a display of a migrant worker picking crops or an illegal immigrant washing dishes. I would find that very funny.


See that's trolling and sincere.
 
2012-12-02 04:26:15 AM  

Revek: I believe that everything is at its best when it is in balance.


Right. No religious displays on public land. This includes everyone. How do you get more balanced than that?

There's one and only one other way that's balanced: everyone gets to put up religious displays on public property.

I'm good either way, but I think the "nobody" option would be waaaayy easier.
 
2012-12-02 04:28:00 AM  
Anti-Nativity? Would that be a N.I.B.?
 
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