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(NPR)   The USS Enterprise has come to the end of its 51 year mission. It didn't find any strange new worlds, new life, or new civilizations, but it certainly could have blown them up if it had   (npr.org) divider line 173
    More: Sad, Enterprise, aircraft carriers, Taliban in Afghanistan, Benedict Arnold, North Vietnam, Cuban Missile Crisis, vice admirals, missions  
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8768 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Dec 2012 at 4:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-01 08:22:01 PM  

jayphat: Keizer_Ghidorah: cptjeff: Keizer_Ghidorah: The sauces section only has impulse power. They also didn't have enough time to get far enough from the engineering section before it blew. Not even Sulu or Checov Chekov could have stopped the crash.

FTFY.

I understand that it wasn't exactly a great situation, but, on the farking Federation Flagship, they couldn't find somebody with a little more skill at the helm than the ship's shrink? Though I suppose they had randomly deputized some random kid who hadn't had any formal training for years, so maybe having a professional drive the thing wasn't the foremost concern.

\Apologies to Wil if you're reading this.

Most of the bridge crew was injured or otherwise busy. Deanna was the only person available.

jayphat: Lemme rephrase it.

"Out of orbit" means AWAY from the planet. Which means when the engineering section EXPLODES, it's BETWEEN you and the planet. Somehow, she managed to park their ass in a position still facing the planet, and that's why I blame her.

She didn't have TIME to. The engineering section exploded literally seconds after they separated.

Jesus Christ, he gave the order 5 minutes before the battle was over to leave orbit, not right when the ship exploded.


I'll go back and watch it, but he ordered that at the beginning of the fight, Deanna took the helm halfway through the fight, and for the entire fight they were trying to keep the Bird-of-Prey from targeting anything vital after the first salvo, which prevented them from leaving orbit. When they finally destroyed the BoP the Enterprise had swung around back toward the planet because of their evasive actions. Then they had to evacuate and separate and it's likely the drive section's engines had stopped working.
 
2012-12-01 08:26:28 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: jayphat: Keizer_Ghidorah: cptjeff: Keizer_Ghidorah: The sauces section only has impulse power. They also didn't have enough time to get far enough from the engineering section before it blew. Not even Sulu or Checov Chekov could have stopped the crash.

FTFY.

I understand that it wasn't exactly a great situation, but, on the farking Federation Flagship, they couldn't find somebody with a little more skill at the helm than the ship's shrink? Though I suppose they had randomly deputized some random kid who hadn't had any formal training for years, so maybe having a professional drive the thing wasn't the foremost concern.

\Apologies to Wil if you're reading this.

Most of the bridge crew was injured or otherwise busy. Deanna was the only person available.

jayphat: Lemme rephrase it.

"Out of orbit" means AWAY from the planet. Which means when the engineering section EXPLODES, it's BETWEEN you and the planet. Somehow, she managed to park their ass in a position still facing the planet, and that's why I blame her.

She didn't have TIME to. The engineering section exploded literally seconds after they separated.

Jesus Christ, he gave the order 5 minutes before the battle was over to leave orbit, not right when the ship exploded.

I'll go back and watch it, but he ordered that at the beginning of the fight, Deanna took the helm halfway through the fight, and for the entire fight they were trying to keep the Bird-of-Prey from targeting anything vital after the first salvo, which prevented them from leaving orbit. When they finally destroyed the BoP the Enterprise had swung around back toward the planet because of their evasive actions. Then they had to evacuate and separate and it's likely the drive section's engines had stopped working.


I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.
 
2012-12-01 08:32:41 PM  

The5thElement: jayphat: The5thElement: Misconduc: Since we lost some of the most famous carrier names (Yorktown, Hornet, Essex, Lexington) prepare for the U.S.S. Barack Obama ...

/always had a soft spot for the Yorktown, not sure if the guided missile cruiser yorktown is still active, probably decomissioned by now.

Oh that will definitely happen, and most likely before he is dead, thanks to Arleigh Burke by setting the precedent.

I for one hope and pray it will never happen. Presidents who never served in the armed services IMO really shouldn't be in the running to have a carrier named after them. Truman I'm OK with.

Still waiting on a callback from Abraham Lincoln for comments on this matter.


Actually, both Lincoln and Truman served in the Armed forces. Lincoln during the Blackhawk Wars and Truman during World War I, Lincoln as a Captain in the Militia and Truman went from Private in the Missouri National Guard on to retire as a Colonel in the Reserves.
 
2012-12-01 08:36:14 PM  

jayphat: The5thElement: Misconduc: Since we lost some of the most famous carrier names (Yorktown, Hornet, Essex, Lexington) prepare for the U.S.S. Barack Obama ...

/always had a soft spot for the Yorktown, not sure if the guided missile cruiser yorktown is still active, probably decomissioned by now.

Oh that will definitely happen, and most likely before he is dead, thanks to Arleigh Burke by setting the precedent.

I for one hope and pray it will never happen. Presidents who never served in the armed services IMO really shouldn't be in the running to have a carrier named after them. Truman I'm OK with.


Besides, they already named the buildings that soldiers sleep in on base after him, long ago.
 
2012-12-01 08:39:21 PM  

jayphat: I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.


She is the counselor, not the driver, and they were in a life-or-death fight, so that can be excused. Would you be mad at your friend who had never driven a vehicle yet you told him to drive the car after the driver has a heart attack on an ice-slick road and your friend ends up crashing?
 
2012-12-01 08:39:44 PM  

Darkviking: I built a model of the Enterprise a few years ago in 1/350. Here she is next to her WWII counterpart CV-6 for size comparisons.

[i6.photobucket.com image 850x658]


Nicely done.
 
2012-12-01 08:42:35 PM  
Alameda...
 
2012-12-01 08:53:03 PM  

dejavoodoo64: So? Yesterdays Democrats are just todays Republicans.

/A double dumb ass on you


Really? I then welcome FDR, JFK, and Truman to the GOP.

/suck-it
 
2012-12-01 09:14:01 PM  

Kit Fister: The5thElement: George Washington was a southern plantation owner and owned slaves and Harry Truman authorized the use of a nuclear weapon. Twice. Both have Nimitz class ships named after them. What's your point?

To be fair, though horrific, the use of the bombs by Truman saved millions of lives and shaved a couple of years of exhausting and expensive war off of the Japanese campaign.

I don't believe nukes are appropriate as tactical weapons, or weapons to just throw out there willy nilly. But if my choices were to throw hundreds of thousands of bodies at a war against an enemy that was prepared to die to the last man and make the whole thing stupendously costly for us without any gain to be had, or simply using a single weapon whose destructive potential as a show of force is enough to make the idea of further hostilities unfathomable, then I'll nuke a goddamn town.

Also remember, towards the end of the War, Stalin and the soviets already saw the US as a threat, and had begun to contemplate attacking us. Using the Bomb on Japan not only stopped the Japanese in their tracks (and probably saved them from nearly obliterating their culture), but it made the Soviets think twice about open hostilities.

In the end, instead of fighting openly with the Soviets, we fought a cold war that was nothing more than a tech race that birthed a lot of good byproducts in terms of advances of medicine and science, without the loss of life, thanks to MAD.

So, yeah. I got no bones about Truman having a ship named after him. As for Washington, given the time period and all, I won't condemn him for being a slave owner.


I'd go so far as to speculate that because Truman made the choice he made, the destructive power of nuclear weapons was seen, and no one's used them since.
 
2012-12-01 09:26:14 PM  
Captain.

*salute*
 
2012-12-01 09:30:39 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: jayphat: I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.

She is the counselor, not the driver, and they were in a life-or-death fight, so that can be excused. Would you be mad at your friend who had never driven a vehicle yet you told him to drive the car after the driver has a heart attack on an ice-slick road and your friend ends up crashing?


Which goes to my point of, in a ship with a crew of 1,000 or so, them somehow not being able to get somebody qualified to fly a farking shuttle to the bridge.
 
2012-12-01 09:32:00 PM  

cptjeff: Keizer_Ghidorah: jayphat: I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.

She is the counselor, not the driver, and they were in a life-or-death fight, so that can be excused. Would you be mad at your friend who had never driven a vehicle yet you told him to drive the car after the driver has a heart attack on an ice-slick road and your friend ends up crashing?

Which goes to my point of, in a ship with a crew of 1,000 or so, them somehow not being able to get somebody qualified to fly a farking shuttle to the bridge.


Everyone on the bridge who could fly it was taken out during the fight.
 
2012-12-01 09:34:00 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: cptjeff: Keizer_Ghidorah: jayphat: I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.

She is the counselor, not the driver, and they were in a life-or-death fight, so that can be excused. Would you be mad at your friend who had never driven a vehicle yet you told him to drive the car after the driver has a heart attack on an ice-slick road and your friend ends up crashing?

Which goes to my point of, in a ship with a crew of 1,000 or so, them somehow not being able to get somebody qualified to fly a farking shuttle to the bridge.

Everyone on the bridge who could fly it was taken out during the fight.


Let's also not forget Riker's strategy of "Fire one phaser beam at the enemy, then run around like a headless chicken while making up some technobabble solution instead of firing an entire salvo of phasers and torpedoes" which led to Troi taking the helm.
 
2012-12-01 09:34:02 PM  

bmfderek: I'd go so far as to speculate that because Truman made the choice he made, the destructive power of nuclear weapons was seen, and no one's used them since.


I agree. Unfortunately, too, with an enemy like the Soviets, we had little choice but to fight the cold war that we did, since it was a big, expensive game of chicken. Unfortunately, the Soviets are the last rational enemy we've fought under any definition of war. While our clashes with Korea and Viet Nam were ostensibly fought to prevent a Communist proxy from gaining territory and power, the fact that those wars were messy, brutal affairs that had little focus or clear plan of attack.

It also highlights, I think, the modern lack of resolve in achieving our objectives, and a clear lesson in what happens when traditional military doctrine clashes with political, social, or religious ideologies, and how incredibly ineffective fighting an idea with bullets and bombs is. Religion, politics, and social ideologies are the modern equivalent of the Hydra, and all we've done in every clash against such has been to keep cutting off the heads without killing the beast.

It's funny, looking at China, that it's taken no force of arms to begin the slow and inevitable decline of communism there: simply give the country enough wealth and opportunity, and such things go by the way-side for more open, free-enterprise capitalism.
 
2012-12-01 09:41:59 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Keizer_Ghidorah: cptjeff: Keizer_Ghidorah: jayphat: I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.

She is the counselor, not the driver, and they were in a life-or-death fight, so that can be excused. Would you be mad at your friend who had never driven a vehicle yet you told him to drive the car after the driver has a heart attack on an ice-slick road and your friend ends up crashing?

Which goes to my point of, in a ship with a crew of 1,000 or so, them somehow not being able to get somebody qualified to fly a farking shuttle to the bridge.

Everyone on the bridge who could fly it was taken out during the fight.

Let's also not forget Riker's strategy of "Fire one phaser beam at the enemy, then run around like a headless chicken while making up some technobabble solution instead of firing an entire salvo of phasers and torpedoes" which led to Troi taking the helm.


This.

Also, as a side note, the whole thing about cloaking devices in Star Trek annoy the piss out of me. Epic battle? ZOMG THE ENEMY IS COMPLETELY UNDETECTABLE! Interesting plot device? Oh look, it emits a trail of gasses and other matter as a byproduct of impulse ion drives/Has a unique type of engine core that shows up as a singularity/etc.

From a scientific standpoint, you can bend light to hide your vessel in the visible spectrum. You can probably utilize a number of techniques in order to blend the ship into the background so as to make it disappear from direct sensor detection. However, space isn't a vacuum, and no cloaking device yet can mask the ship's presence/effects on particles and radiation in space. The ship has mass, artificial gravity, and presumably has some impact on radiation levels and so forth.

Klingons and Romulans have been quasi-enemies or enemies for long enough that you'd've had to have figured out that "Gee, look, this wash of background particles shows an interesting disturbance, almost as if a ship has passed through them and displaced them!" or "Hey, there's this weird ion trail that seems similar to a ship's engine output but no other ship here..." or "hey, there's this gravitational anomaly on the area that is about the size and 'shape' as a ship's artificial gravity field" or even "hey, there's a magnetic field out here with no detectible body to produce it..."

Suspension of disbelief? You can scramble sensors and all, all you want, but these are ships that are supposed to have all this equipment to detect and catalog the most minute of interesting spacial phenomena that conveniently stops existing the moment you're facing an enemy with an ancient cloaking device.

/rant off
//always bugged by that
///Worst case, attach a giant magnet to the goddamn torpedo and let it go out and find the hull of the enemy's ship on its own.
 
2012-12-01 09:45:39 PM  
And another thing. If the Borg can adapt to energy weapons and block them, but can't do the same with projectile weapons, WHY THE FARK DO YOU STILL USE ENERGY WEAPONS AGAINST THEM?!
 
2012-12-01 09:49:10 PM  

Darkviking: I built a model of the Enterprise a few years ago in 1/350. Here she is next to her WWII counterpart CV-6 for size comparisons.

[i6.photobucket.com image 850x658]


Damn nice work, well done on both!

/IPMS'er since 96
//lives next to the shipyard, grandfather helped build both CV-6 and CVN-65
 
2012-12-01 09:59:39 PM  

Kit Fister: And another thing. If the Borg can adapt to energy weapons and block them, but can't do the same with projectile weapons, WHY THE FARK DO YOU STILL USE ENERGY WEAPONS AGAINST THEM?!


Starfleet did start using projectile weapons, apparently sometime after the events of First Contact: TR-116 Rifle

Apparently it took a while for Starfleet to finally get around to the idea, but I guess Picard mowing down drones with a tommy gun finally convinced them that old-style firearms still had a use in the 24th century.
 
2012-12-01 10:10:35 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Everyone on the bridge who could fly it was taken out during the fight.


Riker was around, wasn't he? And were turbolifts not functioning? Pretty sure they were, because I'm sure they were in use to get people out of the secondary hull. If more than one or two members of the bridge crew go down, you might want to pull Ensign whoever away from his post maintaining some secondary sensor array and pull him up to the Bridge. Or, here's an idea, the Enterprise runs three shifts, right? Wake up a couple of the more junior bridge crew folk who normally work the night watch.

Yes, they ran out of people on the bridge who could fly the ship. But there were multiple opportunities for them to NOT run out of people qualified to fly the ship. Probably should have had twice the staff up there to begin with- help on the tactical and engineering stations, and a couple extra people hitting the sensors at science might have helped them find a ship with a decades old cloaking device, or at least the ion trail. If adequate sensors to pick that up can fit on a torpedo from Kirk's era, surely the giant exploration platform that is the Enterprise would have one or two ways of looking at such a trail and putting it on a screen on the OPS console.

Troi should not have ever been at the helm in that situation, unless she was literally the last one alive on the bridge.
 
2012-12-01 10:11:08 PM  

Silverstaff: Kit Fister: And another thing. If the Borg can adapt to energy weapons and block them, but can't do the same with projectile weapons, WHY THE FARK DO YOU STILL USE ENERGY WEAPONS AGAINST THEM?!

Starfleet did start using projectile weapons, apparently sometime after the events of First Contact: TR-116 Rifle

Apparently it took a while for Starfleet to finally get around to the idea, but I guess Picard mowing down drones with a tommy gun finally convinced them that old-style firearms still had a use in the 24th century.


Fair point.
 
2012-12-01 10:25:56 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: cptjeff: Keizer_Ghidorah: jayphat: I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.

She is the counselor, not the driver, and they were in a life-or-death fight, so that can be excused. Would you be mad at your friend who had never driven a vehicle yet you told him to drive the car after the driver has a heart attack on an ice-slick road and your friend ends up crashing?

Which goes to my point of, in a ship with a crew of 1,000 or so, them somehow not being able to get somebody qualified to fly a farking shuttle to the bridge.

Everyone on the bridge who could fly it was taken out during the fight.


Deanna Troi is a Starfleet officer with the rank of full Commander (same as Will). In an episode where Data goes missing, she takes tests in order to show proficency in all things related to command including bridge operations (which both realms of training would include piloting, that's one reason why Dr Bashir could pilot the Defiant and successfully fire the phasers to destroy a Dominion ship in DS9: The Search pt. 1). Her sudden inability to follow a simple command of "Get us out of orbit" is incompetence of the highest order (and a stupid plot device the writers used to destroy the ship).
 
2012-12-01 10:34:58 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: jayphat: I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.

She is the counselor, not the driver, and they were in a life-or-death fight, so that can be excused. Would you be mad at your friend who had never driven a vehicle yet you told him to drive the car after the driver has a heart attack on an ice-slick road and your friend ends up crashing?


Rank: COMMANDER. You don't just get that rank for shiats and giggles.
 
2012-12-01 10:43:34 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Keizer_Ghidorah: cptjeff: Keizer_Ghidorah: jayphat: I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.

She is the counselor, not the driver, and they were in a life-or-death fight, so that can be excused. Would you be mad at your friend who had never driven a vehicle yet you told him to drive the car after the driver has a heart attack on an ice-slick road and your friend ends up crashing?

Which goes to my point of, in a ship with a crew of 1,000 or so, them somehow not being able to get somebody qualified to fly a farking shuttle to the bridge.

Everyone on the bridge who could fly it was taken out during the fight.

Deanna Troi is a Starfleet officer with the rank of full Commander (same as Will). In an episode where Data goes missing, she takes tests in order to show proficency in all things related to command including bridge operations (which both realms of training would include piloting, that's one reason why Dr Bashir could pilot the Defiant and successfully fire the phasers to destroy a Dominion ship in DS9: The Search pt. 1). Her sudden inability to follow a simple command of "Get us out of orbit" is incompetence of the highest order (and a stupid plot device the writers used to destroy the ship).


There are different levels of pilot training in the Star Trek world. Somebody in a medical field's level of general skills would probably be similar doctors in the real military- boot camp level, and that's it. She would have basic flight proficiency yes, but would almost certainly not be anywhere near qualified to fly a galaxy class starship in a battle scenario. Routine shuttle flights, sure. Maneuvering a damaged vessel, in an unusual and suboptimal configuration while under fire? A qualified pilot could have done it. But I have a hard time believing that any part of the medical staff was qualified to fly the ship in those conditions.
 
2012-12-01 10:43:59 PM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 475x200]

Pavel Chekov..... Admiral


He gets there, eventually.
i24.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-01 10:44:40 PM  

grimlock1972: While this ship comes to its end the storied history of the Enterprise shall continued, a legacy stretching from the battles of the Revolution to the Battles of the Coral sea and Midway to Korea, Vietnam to the wars in the gulf. The ships may have have changed but the name USS Enterprise has long stood for greatness.

God speed CVN-65 your contributions to the legacy of the proud name you proud bore shall not be forgotten.


FTFY
 
2012-12-01 10:48:23 PM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 475x200]

Pavel Chekov..... Admiral


Better image -

i24.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-01 10:48:24 PM  
My dad's first job in 1957 was working at Newport News Shipbuilding and Drydock designing some of the hydraulic support systems for this version of the Big E. My whole childhood was filled with stories of my newlywed parents living in Newport News and being amazed at the job, and of course the separation of the races back then. He said he hated the colored drinking fountains and such and moved on to a chemical plant in Nebraska, the state where my siblings were born.

Anyway, he said it's kind of weird the fruit of his first job is being scrapped. I said the fruit of my first job was scrapped 20 years ago, so he should feel very proud.
 
2012-12-01 10:49:01 PM  
Maybe the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise helped prevent this...
i923.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-01 10:50:36 PM  

armanox: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 475x200]

Pavel Chekov..... Admiral

He gets there, eventually.
[i24.photobucket.com image 731x699]


Where is that from?
 
2012-12-01 11:13:49 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: God-is-a-Taco:
youtube

Crap I meant to quoteDarkSoulNoHope. That was for both of you, I guess.


Let me introduce you to Fark....

/lulz
 
2012-12-01 11:18:57 PM  
What the heck is "enterprising" about a dedicated killing machine ?

A trading ship would deserve that name perhaps, a ship built for exploration perhaps, but a warship ?
 
2012-12-01 11:31:19 PM  

Slartibartfaster: What the heck is "enterprising" about a dedicated killing machine ?

A trading ship would deserve that name perhaps, a ship built for exploration perhaps, but a warship ?




fark you and the whore of a mother you fell out of. America's military strength has saved the world from infinitely more evil than it inflicted.
 
2012-12-02 12:02:37 AM  

fusillade762: Qatmandu: Treat her like a lady and she'll always bring you home.

That's Star Wars, dumbass.


Unless Dr. McCoy and Data were in Star Wars, and Star Wars had a TV episode titled "Encounter at Farpoint", then:
wiki.ytmnd.com

And extra points off for being wrong AND a douche.
 
2012-12-02 12:05:23 AM  

cptjeff: armanox: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 475x200]

Pavel Chekov..... Admiral

He gets there, eventually.
[i24.photobucket.com image 731x699]

Where is that from?


Star Trek: Of Gods and Men. Admiral Chekov will also be in Star Trek: Renegades.
 
2012-12-02 12:09:30 AM  

fusillade762: Qatmandu: fusillade762: Qatmandu: Treat her like a lady and she'll always bring you home.

That's Star Wars, dumbass.

Why you gotta be such a dootchbag?

I keed, I keed. Just trolling my fellow nerds.


Damn. Wish I'd seen this BEFORE I posted my last...
 
2012-12-02 12:28:09 AM  

damonm: fusillade762: Qatmandu: fusillade762: Qatmandu: Treat her like a lady and she'll always bring you home.

That's Star Wars, dumbass.

Why you gotta be such a dootchbag?

I keed, I keed. Just trolling my fellow nerds.

Damn. Wish I'd seen this BEFORE I posted my last...


LOL. Though I actually did screw up, in a way. When I made the original post I was thinking the quote was from Mal's speech at the end of "Serenity".

You can learn all the math in the 'Verse, but you take a boat in the air that you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.
 
2012-12-02 12:28:29 AM  

MadMagnum: grimlock1972: While this ship comes to its end the storied history of the Enterprise shall continued, a legacy stretching from the battles of the Revolution to the Battles of the Coral sea and Midway to Korea, Vietnam to the wars in the gulf. The ships may have have changed but the name USS Enterprise has long stood for greatness.

God speed CVN-65 your contributions to the legacy of the proud name you proud bore shall not be forgotten.

FTFY


Thank you good sir, I am admittedly not knowledgeable about US naval history prior to world war II.
 
2012-12-02 12:31:21 AM  

cptjeff: There are different levels of pilot training in the Star Trek world. Somebody in a medical field's level of general skills would probably be similar doctors in the real military- boot camp level, and that's it. She would have basic flight proficiency yes, but would almost certainly not be anywhere near qualified to fly a galaxy class starship in a battle scenario. Routine shuttle flights, sure. Maneuvering a damaged vessel, in an unusual and suboptimal configuration while under fire? A qualified pilot could have done it. But I have a hard time believing that any part of the medical staff was qualified to fly the ship in those conditions.


Then I will give you the continuation of the scene in Deep Space Nine: The Search Part 1 of just after the Defiant piloted by Bashir destroyed the Jem'Hadar ship. The Dominion vessels moved to just outside of the Defiant's phaser range to regroup and attack again. Sisko: "Doctor, use evasive pattern 'Omega 5'. We need to keep them off balance until we get warp power back!" Doctor: "Aye, Sir!" Now at that point the Defiant was badly damaged from a direct hit to it's warp nacelle and whatever else was damaged that caused the console to explode, on the second volley, killing the (red shirt!) regular helmsman. Bashir didn't go to Sisko and say, "Maybe you should do this sir, I don't know how to preform evasive maneuvers." instead he was able to do the job as a helmsman and knew how to preform that *specific* maneuver successfully (Bashir was still at the helm at the time they got boarded by the Jem'Hadar, so he wasn't relieved by Sisko or anyone else on the ship who could have piloted it). Sisko didn't say just "take evasive action" he gave Bashir a specific instruction of what maneuver to use. Now at that point Bashir's genetic enhancements were not yet open knowledge (nor probably conceived by the writers yet, if you were going to use that as an argument against my points), so Sisko was confidently giving a Starfleet Doctor with little combat experience a specific maneuver that Bashir remembered from his Starfleet training and acted upon it.

Deanna should have known to fly away from the planet per her original order. What's worse is that when Riker ordered Worf to "fire" the photon torpedo (should have been more than one, as Riker ordered a "spread of torpedos", but that's another argument entirely!) at the Bird of Prey, the Enterprise was maneuvering *TOWARD* the planet! (after the torpedo was fired from the rear launcher, the Enterprise turned rightward towards the planet's direction as shown on the bird of prey's viewscreen!) As I continue to point out (and agree with cptjeff, Deanna's at fault for crashing the ship by not following a simple order ("Get us out of orbit!") that her Starfleet training prepared her for. (and the writers are at fault for making a stupid plot device to get rid of the Enterprise-D for future films!)
 
2012-12-02 12:38:09 AM  
Treeks.
 
2012-12-02 12:47:12 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Now at that point Bashir's genetic enhancements were not yet open knowledge (nor probably conceived by the writers yet, if you were going to use that as an argument against my points),


They did, however, already have him cast as ridiculously smart and an overachiever. But point generally taken. I would, however, point out that on DS9, just about everybody was routinely piloting runabouts on short trips, since that was the primary means of transport. With the small capacities and frequent call for senior staff off the station- they frequently start a story with people going to or returning from conferences and other minor mission type whatnots -and crashing- you would expect every member of that crew, regardless of field, to have a substantial level of flight experience. On the Enterprise, where everyone is carted around on a giant ship everywhere they go, there's a lot less flight time to go around and a lot less necessity for everybody, regardless of field, to keep those skills polished.
 
2012-12-02 01:22:29 AM  

cptjeff: jayphat: The5thElement: Misconduc: Since we lost some of the most famous carrier names (Yorktown, Hornet, Essex, Lexington) prepare for the U.S.S. Barack Obama ...

/always had a soft spot for the Yorktown, not sure if the guided missile cruiser yorktown is still active, probably decomissioned by now.

Oh that will definitely happen, and most likely before he is dead, thanks to Arleigh Burke by setting the precedent.

I for one hope and pray it will never happen. Presidents who never served in the armed services IMO really shouldn't be in the running to have a carrier named after them. Truman I'm OK with.

IMO, if you're going to name ships after presidents, whether they served in the armed services or not is irrelevant. They all commanded the armed services. I'm not sure I like routinely naming carriers for Presidents in the first place (historic figures like Washington excluded), but if you're gonna do it, you can't play games with who gets one and who doesn't.

I did really like the choice of a sub for Carter though, a nice nod to his career as a submariner rather than just a quick and easy 'slap his name on the next Carrier'.


Not only that, they named that baddest shark in the water after Jimmy.

That boat is always busy.
 
2012-12-02 01:27:02 AM  

fickenchucker: Slartibartfaster: What the heck is "enterprising" about a dedicated killing machine ?

A trading ship would deserve that name perhaps, a ship built for exploration perhaps, but a warship ?



fark you and the whore of a mother you fell out of. America's military strength has saved the world from infinitely more evil than it inflicted.


Do you even know the definition of the word "Enterprise" ? wtf has your military strength got to do with that ?

Calm your nads down... then feel free to go "save" another nation dickweed.
 
2012-12-02 01:41:20 AM  

cptjeff: DarkSoulNoHope: Now at that point Bashir's genetic enhancements were not yet open knowledge (nor probably conceived by the writers yet, if you were going to use that as an argument against my points),

They did, however, already have him cast as ridiculously smart and an overachiever. But point generally taken. I would, however, point out that on DS9, just about everybody was routinely piloting runabouts on short trips, since that was the primary means of transport. With the small capacities and frequent call for senior staff off the station- they frequently start a story with people going to or returning from conferences and other minor mission type whatnots -and crashing- you would expect every member of that crew, regardless of field, to have a substantial level of flight experience. On the Enterprise, where everyone is carted around on a giant ship everywhere they go, there's a lot less flight time to go around and a lot less necessity for everybody, regardless of field, to keep those skills polished.


I would agree with you about the routine runabout missions, except that most of those missions didn't include combat using runabouts , and I doubt specific "refresher training" would include specific evasive maneuvers for runabout ship pilots, since those vessels aren't designed for combat! The Doctor knew how to successfully pilot a warship using knowledge of Starfleet evasive maneuvers with little combat experience and virtually no knowledge of it beyond it's standardized Starfleet controls. I think Starfleet training is a bit more advanced than our US Navy! (especially with children on board [TNG: When The Bough Breaks] around the age of 10 that get angry at their parents for making them go to Calculus classes!!!)
 
2012-12-02 02:52:43 AM  
Farewell, Enterprise.

Well done, oh good and faithful friend.

Enter into the remembrance of your crews, a memory that shall not fade.

I shall be glad indeed when the bright day of rebirth dawns, to welcome CVN-80 to the mighty ranks of United States Navy warships.

May she never need to set sail in anger, and may Poseidon look upon her with great favour.
 
2012-12-02 04:07:50 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: cptjeff: Keizer_Ghidorah: jayphat: I realize this is a gigantic nerd battle, the exact phrase "Deanna, take the helm. Get us out of orbit." And that is why I blame her. That battle should have been taken out into space. Alas, it wasn't.

She is the counselor, not the driver, and they were in a life-or-death fight, so that can be excused. Would you be mad at your friend who had never driven a vehicle yet you told him to drive the car after the driver has a heart attack on an ice-slick road and your friend ends up crashing?

Which goes to my point of, in a ship with a crew of 1,000 or so, them somehow not being able to get somebody qualified to fly a farking shuttle to the bridge.

Everyone on the bridge who could fly it was taken out during the fight.


Data was available, and every console on the bridge could be reconfigured as a helm console. Hell, Riker could control the ship from the captain's chair, albeit with limited controls. It was lazy writing.
 
2012-12-02 04:10:59 AM  

Silverstaff: Apparently at the Enterprises decommissioning ceremony the Secretary of the Navy announced that the new Ford-class carrier, CVN-80 will be the new U.S.S. Enterprise, the seventh US Navy ship to bear the name.

Link


that will be the ninth actually

/former crew member
//communications, Hailing frequencies open
 
2012-12-02 04:27:20 AM  

Darkviking: I built a model of the Enterprise a few years ago in 1/350. Here she is next to her WWII counterpart CV-6 for size comparisons.

[i6.photobucket.com image 850x658]


WTG. Will miss the Big "E". Was the baddest boat on the high seas. Wish they would save something like the Island or even just the bridge for like the Smithsonian.
 
2012-12-02 07:01:31 AM  

tgambitg: It was lazy writing.


Nothing in Generations made sense. Nothing.
 
2012-12-02 10:51:13 AM  

Silverstaff: Apparently at the Enterprises decommissioning ceremony the Secretary of the Navy announced that the new Ford-class carrier, CVN-80 will be the new U.S.S. Enterprise, the seventh US Navy ship to bear the name.

Link


if you want to be super pinchy technical about it, it will be either the 9th or 12th US military vessel if you count the following as well:
Two ships that sailed under the continental navy
a baloon that the army did stuff with during the civil war (not entirely sure what it actually did however)
the space shuttle
a non military riverboat that was used by the military during the war of 1812

9th if only counting navel vessels, 12th if you count all vessels that ether have seen combat and/or been commissioned or built by the US govt.
 
2012-12-02 11:34:20 AM  

Vegaz73: Darkviking: I built a model of the Enterprise a few years ago in 1/350. Here she is next to her WWII counterpart CV-6 for size comparisons.

[i6.photobucket.com image 850x658]

WTG. Will miss the Big "E". Was the baddest boat on the high seas. Wish they would save something like the Island or even just the bridge for like the Smithsonian.


IIRC they replaced the original island years ago.
 
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