Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(IT World)   The city of Munich has saved $14 million by switching from Windows to Linux. It's their best decision since eliminating Lederhosen Fridays   (itworld.com ) divider line
    More: Amusing, Windows, linux, Munich, trade  
•       •       •

1997 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Dec 2012 at 3:22 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-12-01 01:12:01 PM  
Linux is overrated

Darwin is where you get all the good looking girls
 
2012-12-01 03:33:54 PM  
I was going to say they may have underestimated the associated retraining costs switching from windows to linux, but let's be honest - they're german, and they love tweaking, linux is absolutely perfect.
 
2012-12-01 03:36:57 PM  
Linux is only free if your time has no value.

/but as this is a government organization they have all the people and time to throw in the world
//call me when a corporation does it
 
2012-12-01 03:40:24 PM  

Somaticasual: I was going to say they may have underestimated the associated retraining costs switching from windows to linux


I'm a Windows user, but you know, switching from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and from old versions of Office to any version with the farking ribbon is more painful for a user than switching to Ubuntu.

/ I hate the ribbon and I want it to die... horribly.
 
2012-12-01 03:45:27 PM  
They'll be back.
 
2012-12-01 03:49:01 PM  

carnifex2005: They'll be back.


Yes it's unfortunate that Open/Libre Office is a piece of trash.
 
2012-12-01 03:58:18 PM  

Somaticasual: I was going to say they may have underestimated the associated retraining costs switching from windows to linux, but let's be honest - they're german, and they love tweaking, linux is absolutely perfect.


Apparently, those costs have been factored in:

Costs that are not related to the operating system, such as staff and training costs, were identically listed at around €22 million (£17 million) in all three scenarios. Overall, the project says that Windows and Microsoft Office would have cost just over €34 million (£27 million), while Windows with Open Office would have cost about €30 million (£24 million). The LiMux scenario, on the other hand, has reportedly cost less than €23 million (£18 million).
 
2012-12-01 04:00:49 PM  

farkeruk: Somaticasual: I was going to say they may have underestimated the associated retraining costs switching from windows to linux

I'm a Windows user, but you know, switching from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and from old versions of Office to any version with the farking ribbon is more painful for a user than switching to Ubuntu.

/ I hate the ribbon and I want it to die... horribly.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-01 04:05:35 PM  

carnifex2005: They'll be back.


I came here to post that
 
2012-12-01 04:13:21 PM  
Just to set the record straight dirndl mondays saved much more by cutting down on absenteeism
 
2012-12-01 04:26:12 PM  
That's wonderful they don't have to pay for licensing the OS, but what is it costing them in converting their existing systems over to it. Active Directory is a powerful tool that Linux simply doesn't have an equal to.

And all the Linux equivalents of Office, Photoshop, etc. are all garbage.
 
2012-12-01 04:40:07 PM  

gingerjet: Linux is only free if your time has no value.


Because Windows machines never required setup or maintenance.
 
2012-12-01 05:03:32 PM  

farkeruk: Somaticasual: I was going to say they may have underestimated the associated retraining costs switching from windows to linux

I'm a Windows user, but you know, switching from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and from old versions of Office to any version with the farking ribbon is more painful for a user than switching to Ubuntu.

/ I hate the ribbon and I want it to die... horribly.


Ribbon was created as some kind of Ease of Access tool for people with Parkinsons and it ended up taking over the entire product line. Now it pisses off people of all abilities and disabilities.

Just looking at it makes me want to go on a vendetta to find the mind behind it.
 
2012-12-01 05:11:33 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: farkeruk: Somaticasual: I was going to say they may have underestimated the associated retraining costs switching from windows to linux

I'm a Windows user, but you know, switching from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and from old versions of Office to any version with the farking ribbon is more painful for a user than switching to Ubuntu.

/ I hate the ribbon and I want it to die... horribly.

Ribbon was created as some kind of Ease of Access tool for people with Parkinsons and it ended up taking over the entire product line. Now it pisses off people of all abilities and disabilities.

Just looking at it makes me want to go on a vendetta to find the mind behind it.


At least Clippy was cute
 
2012-12-01 05:29:57 PM  

carnifex2005: They'll be back.

Employees had trouble with documents that were formatted in a seemingly complete random way when opened in another office suite. There were also conversion problems between the presentation programs Power Point and Impress. And spreadsheet program Calc and Impress were seen as significantly underperforming compared to the Microsoft alternative, the council wrote


That is the problem we ran into. We exchange many, many documents with out partners. We have problems when we use different revs of Office, must less different products. We had a full fledged pilot to see if Open Office or Google Apps would be viable. There there was too much cross pollination of people working across the offices for some to use a different product than others. In the end, it would look like about 70% of the users in a office would have to use both products, which would be a flipping nightmare for support and document exchange.

So good on them for using Linux and saving money. That means they don't do any meaningful document exchange with the outside world (send PDFs mabye) and they don't have a whole gaggle of legacy apps that must be run and have to run in Windows. If you can get away with running most everything in a web browser, you should be gold.

TLDR: Who cares what your OS is, the apps are what is important. Pick the mission critical applications and build from there.
 
2012-12-01 05:47:58 PM  
gingerjet : Linux is only free if your time has no value.

Once I got up to speed in linux, I didn't spend any more time maintaining it than I do my windows boxes.

divx88: Yes it's unfortunate that Open/Libre Office is a piece of trash.

From what I've seen, it's compatibility with office that sucks. And base sucks as well (but you could just as easily go with mini SQL instead).

If they're all using open office, then they'll be fine.

// remember, word is a word processing tool, not a damn page layout tool, move that fancy shiat to framemaker or quark :P

// didn't we go through this same shiat with word vs wordperfect (wordperfect > word BTW, but the rest of the wordperfect suite sucked so it died, sadly, taking reveal codes with it)

// also, add me to the "fark the ribbon" crowd as well.
 
2012-12-01 05:50:18 PM  
Hmm actually, it's been about 7 or so years since I had to do hardcore page layout, are people still even using framemaker and quark?

// Is framemaker still a pain in the ass?
 
2012-12-01 05:56:33 PM  
Framemaker or Pagemaker? I don't recall framemaker.

Publisher for MSWIN.
 
2012-12-01 05:57:34 PM  

wingnut396: carnifex2005: They'll be back.

Employees had trouble with documents that were formatted in a seemingly complete random way when opened in another office suite. There were also conversion problems between the presentation programs Power Point and Impress. And spreadsheet program Calc and Impress were seen as significantly underperforming compared to the Microsoft alternative, the council wrote

That is the problem we ran into. We exchange many, many documents with out partners. We have problems when we use different revs of Office, must less different products. We had a full fledged pilot to see if Open Office or Google Apps would be viable. There there was too much cross pollination of people working across the offices for some to use a different product than others. In the end, it would look like about 70% of the users in a office would have to use both products, which would be a flipping nightmare for support and document exchange.

So good on them for using Linux and saving money. That means they don't do any meaningful document exchange with the outside world (send PDFs mabye) and they don't have a whole gaggle of legacy apps that must be run and have to run in Windows. If you can get away with running most everything in a web browser, you should be gold.

TLDR: Who cares what your OS is, the apps are what is important. Pick the mission critical applications and build from there.


Yeah, or get them to switch to Linux too. The formatting issues are deliberate on the part of MS, so they can pass the blame to OOO.

/It's a strong monopolistic practice... switching isn't viable unless companies do it en masse.
 
2012-12-01 06:08:50 PM  

ZoeNekros: Yeah, or get them to switch to Linux too. The formatting issues are deliberate on the part of MS, so they can pass the blame to OOO.

/It's a strong monopolistic practice... switching isn't viable unless companies do it en masse.


Yeah, well we do what our clients want. So if they said they wanted OOO on this project, then we would do it. So far they all keep with MS products.

The other issue are the Excel docs and Access DBs that users create that are pretty much application in their own right. OOO can't reproduce the functionality. Of course there is likely a better way of doing what the users created, but who is going to pay for the conversion of an application that is working and was likely created as billable hours?
 
2012-12-01 06:19:02 PM  
If only there was some word to describe the period when switch from Windows to Linux was made. Some sort of night where they realized all the Windows were broken...
 
2012-12-01 06:33:03 PM  

Sock Ruh Tease: If only there was some word to describe the period when switch from Windows to Linux was made. Some sort of night where they realized all the Windows were broken...


Clever and dark, nicely crafted.
 
2012-12-01 06:36:34 PM  

wingnut396: Of course there is likely a better way of doing what the users created


And that's a huge part of the reason I hate Office. You get these guys who go, "I can program, look at this Excel macro I made!" and before you know it, they've got this entire kludged together abomination of insanity and then they turn to IT and say, "Hey... um... we need you to support this."
 
2012-12-01 06:39:54 PM  
You know who else wanted to change policies, starting in Munich?
 
2012-12-01 06:43:33 PM  
wingnut396: Framemaker or Pagemaker? I don't recall framemaker.

Pagemaker was 1987-2004 (succeded by InDesign)
Framemaker was 1986-current

The way I understand it, pagemaker was more for short layout type stuff (posters, brochures etc) and framemaker was more for large technical documents and books. (I had 500 page documents in framemaker).

As a result, pagemaker was easier to use, whereas framemaker was a huge PITA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_FrameMaker
 
2012-12-01 07:04:32 PM  

t3knomanser: And that's a huge part of the reason I hate Office. You get these guys who go, "I can program, look at this Excel macro I made!" and before you know it, they've got this entire kludged together abomination of insanity and then they turn to IT and say, "Hey... um... we need you to support this."


My favourite story on this:

some users had approached the IT department (with insufficient notice) asking for a system to record customer feedback for a billing system. They then wrote it all in Excel with Macros, stuck it on a PC and shared it around.

People were recording stuff, then one day, the users come in and... nothing. Turns out the installation team had come in, swapped out some PCs, nuked the old ones and reinstalled Windows on them. Two months of business data, completely lost.

Most companies have no idea about the risks they're running with this stuff.
 
2012-12-01 07:17:32 PM  

farkeruk: Turns out the installation team had come in, swapped out some PCs, nuked the old ones and reinstalled Windows on them. Two months of business data, completely lost.


Oh yes. This is totally the macros fault.

This can't be utterly incompetent IT at ALL. Nosirree.

/no documentation?
//no asking anyone "Is there anything on here you need still?"
 
2012-12-01 07:45:18 PM  

gingerjet: //call me when a corporation does it


I can personally attest to several banks and stock exchanges moving large critical infra to RHEL or home-brewed Linux distros.

/call me when they move their desktops and mainframes to Linux
 
2012-12-01 08:06:19 PM  
For server infrastructure, it's a no brainier to switch from Microsoft to Linux/BSD. I don't think there is any function that Microsoft performs that cannot be matched with open source technology. Even single sign on LDAP directories and SMB network shares can be run on Linux (389 Directory server+Samba+RADIUS for example). The only advantage of Windows Server is that it is much easier for admins to transition from desktop computer use to server administration.

For desktop use, Linux has become quite intuitive and easy to learn IMO. I don't think something like Xubuntu is any harder for a Windows user to get used to using than Mac OS X. As others have mentioned, the biggest barrier for more wide spread office use of Linux is inevitable compatibility issues with more widely used Microsoft products. Since Microsoft is not open source and has incentive for open source products not to be cross compatible, this problem is liekely to continue until the consumer really demands it.
 
2012-12-01 08:40:22 PM  

gingerjet: //call me when a corporation does it


http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/i-confirmed-ernie-ball-still-runs- l inux-macs-help-200413041.html
 
2012-12-01 09:29:57 PM  

count chocula: For server infrastructure, it's a no brainier to switch from Microsoft to Linux/BSD. I don't think there is any function that Microsoft performs that cannot be matched with open source technology. Even single sign on LDAP directories and SMB network shares can be run on Linux (389 Directory server+Samba+RADIUS for example). The only advantage of Windows Server is that it is much easier for admins to transition from desktop computer use to server administration.

For desktop use, Linux has become quite intuitive and easy to learn IMO. I don't think something like Xubuntu is any harder for a Windows user to get used to using than Mac OS X. As others have mentioned, the biggest barrier for more wide spread office use of Linux is inevitable compatibility issues with more widely used Microsoft products. Since Microsoft is not open source and has incentive for open source products not to be cross compatible, this problem is liekely to continue until the consumer really demands it.


Its not so much the just network shares as it is a large offering of COTS programs that leverage AD. Just like it use to leverage NDS. It can change if the costs are justified and the apps are there.
 
2012-12-01 09:32:08 PM  

fluffy2097: farkeruk: Turns out the installation team had come in, swapped out some PCs, nuked the old ones and reinstalled Windows on them. Two months of business data, completely lost.

Oh yes. This is totally the macros fault.

This can't be utterly incompetent IT at ALL. Nosirree.

/no documentation?
//no asking anyone "Is there anything on here you need still?"


When I did desktop support and we had large replacements, the ones that always got nabbed were the ones that never bothered to answer any of the ITs surveys or call after getting repeated warnings of what was going to happen. Sorry, but we don't have time to personally track down and interview everyone in replacement plan. You have a network drive, keep you shiat there and it won't be a problem.
 
2012-12-01 09:36:06 PM  

t3knomanser: wingnut396: Of course there is likely a better way of doing what the users created

And that's a huge part of the reason I hate Office. You get these guys who go, "I can program, look at this Excel macro I made!" and before you know it, they've got this entire kludged together abomination of insanity and then they turn to IT and say, "Hey... um... we need you to support this."


Yeah, its how we pissed off a large portion of the users when we took Access of most of the machines back in the 97 to 2000 upgrade (It was also cheaper to leave out Access, so that meant business management was really, really behind it). Got tired of people wanting support on a database they created when the suddenly hit the 20 user limit or whatever access had. Not to mention if their machine died taking all the procurement data from a 10 million dollar project with it. Good thing they saved money and didn't get a database admin to help them put it in a proper database that was backup every night.
 
2012-12-01 09:43:29 PM  

wingnut396: When I did desktop support and we had large replacements, the ones that always got nabbed were the ones that never bothered to answer any of the ITs surveys or call after getting repeated warnings of what was going to happen. Sorry, but we don't have time to personally track down and interview everyone in replacement plan. You have a network drive, keep you shiat there and it won't be a problem.


Still not the macro's fault. IT should have dropped the Macro they made for the user in the network drive. IT should have documented this thing they made was in use. The user shares the blame as well though for not putting it there on their own, and for not responding to surveys. IT's hardly Microsoft's fault, It's poor administration to let that sort of thing happen.

My companies deployments were always small enough and over a long enough period of time we could and did talk to everyone getting upgraded. Nobodies machine was EVER just taken off to be reformatted without talking to them in person first and going down a whole checklist of stuff to backup for them. We had lots of mobile users, so network drives/Roaming profiles weren't a viable option. Things had to be stored locally. Finance knew damn well to keep everything on shared drives though. If they brought anything home on their laptops they put it back up on the shared drive when they got back to the office.

I'm just kind of annoyed how some people were trying to turn human ignorance into a problem with an excel macro, thus somehow justifying the use of shiatty open source office programs.
 
2012-12-01 09:49:03 PM  

farkeruk: People were recording stuff, then one day, the users come in and... nothing. Turns out the installation team had come in, swapped out some PCs, nuked the old ones and reinstalled Windows on them. Two months of business data, completely lost.


And they didn't save the user data? They should be fired.
 
2012-12-01 10:01:05 PM  

saturn badger: farkeruk: People were recording stuff, then one day, the users come in and... nothing. Turns out the installation team had come in, swapped out some PCs, nuked the old ones and reinstalled Windows on them. Two months of business data, completely lost.

And they didn't save the user data? They should be fired.


Not always that cut and dry - I had a client company complain that one of my techs had wiped out their payroll history, and that it wasn't being backed up like it was supposed to be. The guy had whatever the weekly flavor of Fraud A/V on his machine, and as part of the cleanup, my tech cleaned out the profile's temp folder. Which contained their only copy of their payroll data.
 
2012-12-01 10:35:23 PM  

fang06554: the profile's temp folder. Which contained their only copy of their payroll data.


ಠ_ಠ

Why didn't they just store it in the recycle bin like a normal retard?
 
2012-12-02 01:13:25 AM  

farkeruk: t3knomanser: And that's a huge part of the reason I hate Office. You get these guys who go, "I can program, look at this Excel macro I made!" and before you know it, they've got this entire kludged together abomination of insanity and then they turn to IT and say, "Hey... um... we need you to support this."

My favourite story on this:

some users had approached the IT department (with insufficient notice) asking for a system to record customer feedback for a billing system. They then wrote it all in Excel with Macros, stuck it on a PC and shared it around.

People were recording stuff, then one day, the users come in and... nothing. Turns out the installation team had come in, swapped out some PCs, nuked the old ones and reinstalled Windows on them. Two months of business data, completely lost.

Most companies have no idea about the risks they're running with this stuff.


Stories like this is why I don't reload machines right away. PC's are so cheap right now if a computer needs to be reloaded that person gets a new PC. And that PC gets reloaded 2-4 weeks later when I have time. It then gets used as a spare or to replace an even slower machine. I don't know how many times I've had to go back a week later to find some file in some random directory because something didn't work.
 
2012-12-02 08:43:07 AM  

fluffy2097: Oh yes. This is totally the macros fault.

This can't be utterly incompetent IT at ALL. Nosirree.

/no documentation?
//no asking anyone "Is there anything on here you need still?"


The IT department didn't have anything to do with it. First we heard, was when this data disappeared. The users had created their "database" off their own back, with an amateur kid in their department doing the programming (having learnt it from books) in contravention of a number of IT policies (like where data was stored, backed-up, secured etc). The PC in question was not assigned to any user, so the team just moved it. On top of that, data wasn't supposed to be stored on the PC but on a network drive.

There's nothing wrong with Excel macros. I've seen very good uses of them. The problem is that they're often part of a workaround to the IT process. A manager needs a report, IT say it'll take 2 weeks, so they do something in Access or Excel, when the process should be that they tell their manager they can't do it, and the management is then forced to discuss the IT process.
 
Displayed 39 of 39 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter








In Other Media
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report