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(PopCrush Albany)   So you say your house burnt down just in time for the holidays and you have nothing left? Hmmm Awkward. Here's a water bill for the hydrant the fire dept used to water down the leftover debris once known as your home and stuff. Ok-thanks-bye   (popcrush1057.com) divider line 35
    More: Asinine, fluid pressure  
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8206 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Dec 2012 at 1:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-12-01 01:25:18 AM  
6 votes:

Lsherm: ZAZ: Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes and is considered a basic government service. Cities can't even charge higher taxes for people with harder-to-extinguish buildings.

As I pointed out in another thread, 70% of all fire departments in the US are volunteer. That means you pay if you have a fire. And if you use another county's water to fight a fire, you have to pay that county for it.

This is what services actually cost, which is why the people in the story are being billed. Some people don't understand that services cost money, just:

Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes

That about sums it up. "Free" and "paid for by taxes" are interchangeable to the this mindset.


The problem is that you aren't putting the fire out for you, after all his house burned down, you are putting it out for everyone else. Rare is the case the fire department can get to a house fire quick enough to save much. Any fire that needs the department is likely to get real big, real fast, and water damage is not trivial. However, if you ignore the fire, well, just ask London about what happened in 1666. You can have a whole damn city burn down.

So the home owner could have ignored it, not called 911, said "Well, insurance will cover it, I don't want to pay for the water." Then as the fire spread, the town would get to pay for a whole lot more water as their shiat started catching on fire.

Fire service is the kind of thing you really have to be willing to publicly fund because it isn't the person who's place is on fire that has the issue, it is everyone else around them. If my place catches fire, my insurance company is paying out my coverage pretty much no matter what. A fire would spread quick in my house, and the fire department does not spare on the water putting shiat out. That's not why I'd call them, I'd call them because I'd rather not see my neighbourhood burned to the ground.

Same reason I'll call them if I see another house on fire. I won't say "Oh well, not my house, not my problem." Hell no, I want that shiat out before it IS my problem.
2012-12-01 01:19:50 AM  
6 votes:

Jesda: Most objections to small government have to do with the expansion of federal powers worldwide, not local fire services.


Bullshiat. You've never been to a town council meeting.
2012-11-30 09:12:58 PM  
6 votes:

ZAZ: Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes and is considered a basic government service. Cities can't even charge higher taxes for people with harder-to-extinguish buildings.


As I pointed out in another thread, 70% of all fire departments in the US are volunteer. That means you pay if you have a fire. And if you use another county's water to fight a fire, you have to pay that county for it.

This is what services actually cost, which is why the people in the story are being billed. Some people don't understand that services cost money, just:

Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes

That about sums it up. "Free" and "paid for by taxes" are interchangeable to the this mindset.
2012-12-01 12:42:36 AM  
4 votes:
Funny, how people scream and moan that they want smaller government, without really putting too much thought into exactly what it is that government spends all that tax money on, and how things might change when they have to pick up the tab individually, rather than as a community.
2012-12-01 03:50:04 AM  
3 votes:

Jesda: MisterTweak: Funny, how people scream and moan that they want smaller government, without really putting too much thought into exactly what it is that government spends all that tax money on, and how things might change when they have to pick up the tab individually, rather than as a community.

Most objections to small government have to do with the expansion of federal powers worldwide, not local fire services.


Actually, "most" are vague to the point that equates "I pay to much in taxes".

In your world of wishful thinking "most" people have a clue as to what or where their tax money goes, and a moral sense as to what is legitimate or not.

Enjoy your fantasy, but please don't try to proffer it as reality.

Reality is, people are selfish and ignorant, and just don't like the vague concept of big government that costs them money. Vote for tax cuts, complain about potholes, poor public education, poor law enforcement and a thousand other things that not-so-common sense tells you is what those taxes would have gone to.

Believing "most" people are not ignorant and selfish is really sort of disgustingly ignorant in and of itself.
2012-12-01 02:04:35 AM  
3 votes:

The Jami Turman Fan Club:

$1400 water bill? How many millions of gallons did they use?


"Poestenkill buys its water at a rate of $4.35 per thousand gallons... firefighters used 73,000 gallons of Poestenkill's water..." So, $317.55 worth of water.

It's the shipping and handling charges that got him. Link

"Water is pumped into large holding tanks and then pumped up a hill as crews battled a house fire on Garfield Road on Monday, Nov. 26, 2012 in Eagle Mills, N.Y. Because of a lack of water at the scene, water had to be trucked in."

ww1.hdnux.com
2012-12-01 01:29:51 AM  
3 votes:
FTFA: "Thomas Martin, the Fire Chief of Eagle Mills, hopes this is not going to become a reoccurring issue. Martin along with the rest of the Eagle Mills Fire District will be holding a pancake breakfast this Saturday morning, December 2nd, to raise money for the Pretio family to help pay off this unfair bill. All proceeds will go right towards the bill."

The city government may be douchebags, but the firefighters are class acts.
2012-12-01 02:22:03 AM  
2 votes:
Amazing how many people either did not read the article or simply did not understand it. The bill was NOT from the village where the person lived. It was from the neighboring village.
2012-12-01 02:10:55 AM  
2 votes:

bryen: Makes me wonder - if you get into a car accident in this town, and they need to use water to put out a fire involving your car, are you billed?


Depending on the town, you might also have to pay for the firefighters, the engines, the hoses, etc. But regardless of the actual charges, these are almost always picked up by the insurance company.

The only difference here is the guy either didn't have insurance, or he decided to go full-wharrgarbl in an attempt to get free money donations.
2012-12-01 01:35:17 AM  
2 votes:
"You know all that sh*t that people pay taxes for?"

"Yeah."

"Let's bill them for it anyhoo."

"Brilliant."
2012-12-01 01:30:21 AM  
2 votes:

sycraft: Lsherm: ZAZ: Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes and is considered a basic government service. Cities can't even charge higher taxes for people with harder-to-extinguish buildings.

As I pointed out in another thread, 70% of all fire departments in the US are volunteer. That means you pay if you have a fire. And if you use another county's water to fight a fire, you have to pay that county for it.

This is what services actually cost, which is why the people in the story are being billed. Some people don't understand that services cost money, just:

Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes

That about sums it up. "Free" and "paid for by taxes" are interchangeable to the this mindset.

The problem is that you aren't putting the fire out for you, after all his house burned down, you are putting it out for everyone else. Rare is the case the fire department can get to a house fire quick enough to save much. Any fire that needs the department is likely to get real big, real fast, and water damage is not trivial. However, if you ignore the fire, well, just ask London about what happened in 1666. You can have a whole damn city burn down.

So the home owner could have ignored it, not called 911, said "Well, insurance will cover it, I don't want to pay for the water." Then as the fire spread, the town would get to pay for a whole lot more water as their shiat started catching on fire.

Fire service is the kind of thing you really have to be willing to publicly fund because it isn't the person who's place is on fire that has the issue, it is everyone else around them. If my place catches fire, my insurance company is paying out my coverage pretty much no matter what. A fire would spread quick in my house, and the fire department does not spare on the water putting shiat out. That's not why I'd call them, I'd call them because I'd rather not see my neig ...


Tell that to the tea party and the libertarians
2012-12-01 01:26:23 AM  
2 votes:

bubo_sibiricus: Bullshiat. You've never been to a town council meeting


THIS
2012-11-30 10:06:43 PM  
2 votes:

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: trivial use of my dark powers: Why not add in wear and tear on the uniforms, gas for the engine, helmet polish, and dalmatian paw salve while you're at it? Commit to your douchebaggery--make me believe it.

An oxygen tax, too.

Don't forget an oxygen tax!


Well since it's an area covered by a volunteer fire department, it most likely means that they may very well have not ever paid any taxes to support the volunteer fire department
2012-12-02 03:26:28 AM  
1 votes:

Lsherm: We work for free.


you may. "Most" do not.

Lsherm: I also understand it's hard for you to understand.


The only thing hard for me to understand is why someone would keeps pushing a bare assertion like you have.
2012-12-01 04:12:50 PM  
1 votes:

Lsherm: ZAZ: Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes and is considered a basic government service. Cities can't even charge higher taxes for people with harder-to-extinguish buildings.

As I pointed out in another thread, 70% of all fire departments in the US are volunteer. That means you pay if you have a fire. And if you use another county's water to fight a fire, you have to pay that county for it.

This is what services actually cost, which is why the people in the story are being billed. Some people don't understand that services cost money, just:

Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes

That about sums it up. "Free" and "paid for by taxes" are interchangeable to the this mindset.


I think what ZAZ meant is that when you pay your taxes, you aren't supposed to have to pay extra for the same service, because you already paid for it. Imagine if you went to a restaurant, had a great meal, paid the bill, and a week later got the bill again in the mail.

It being volunteer does make sense, but it also points to why the area's firefighting system is entirely farked up.
2012-12-01 12:32:52 PM  
1 votes:

Spiralmonkey: As a UK farker I don't understand why you have volunteer fire services - can anyone explain? Why do towns and villages pay for these things individually, why not have a state level service that covers everything in that state instead?


Because the USA is a *big* country, and to be effective a fire-service needs to have a firehouse close to its protection district. We have little towns spread out across a large area, and each one of those little towns needs to have at least a *basic* firehouse with personnel and equipment. So (for a little town with limited tax income) it's more effective to have a volunteer department for a few reasons:
1. 90% of the cost of a fire department is personnel costs: wages, training, etc.
2. It makes no sense to spend all that money on full-time firefighters/EMS for a town that seems maybe 3 decent sized fires a year, and a handful of car wrecks.
3. Volunteer departments allows can focus their limited income equipment and maintenance.
4. Even with limited equipment, a small volunteer department can contain a fire until mutual aid from surrounding towns can make it to the scene. 

To try and do that at the state level would be expensive, and no politician is going to try and pitch that idea in this era of "cut everything".
2012-12-01 12:07:00 PM  
1 votes:

Lsherm: ZAZ: Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes and is considered a basic government service. Cities can't even charge higher taxes for people with harder-to-extinguish buildings.

As I pointed out in another thread, 70% of all fire departments in the US are volunteer. That means you pay if you have a fire. And if you use another county's water to fight a fire, you have to pay that county for it.

This is what services actually cost, which is why the people in the story are being billed. Some people don't understand that services cost money, just:

Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes

That about sums it up. "Free" and "paid for by taxes" are interchangeable to the this mindset.


Except that this is the point of having taxes. It's not free but the service has already been paid for. Why should there be any taxes at all if you are going to be charged for the services anyway
2012-12-01 08:25:38 AM  
1 votes:
Why doesn't the town where the homeowner lives just transfer to the other town the same amount of water used fighting the blaze? Problem solved,
2012-12-01 04:45:41 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: How do you mail someone a bill after their house is destroyed?


mail box
2012-12-01 03:26:26 AM  
1 votes:

Sin_City_Superhero: In some rural areas (and I do not know if this is one of them) residents do not pay the same taxes as the in-town folk. That being the case, they also do not enjoy the same benefits. Again, I do not know if this applies in this particular case, I'm just sayin'...


well now, this bit of non-information really added to the discussion.
2012-12-01 02:51:14 AM  
1 votes:

jtown: Wouldn't homeowner's insurance cover that sort of thing?


Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!
2012-12-01 02:22:12 AM  
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: It's the shipping and handling charges that got him. Link


Oooh, that link was very informative.

The firefighters got their water from a hydrant located in a different city than the house that was on fire. No wonder the homeowners got a bill.
2012-12-01 02:11:49 AM  
1 votes:

sycraft: Lsherm: ZAZ: Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes and is considered a basic government service. Cities can't even charge higher taxes for people with harder-to-extinguish buildings.

As I pointed out in another thread, 70% of all fire departments in the US are volunteer. That means you pay if you have a fire. And if you use another county's water to fight a fire, you have to pay that county for it.

This is what services actually cost, which is why the people in the story are being billed. Some people don't understand that services cost money, just:

Emergency services are supposed to be free where I live. The fire department is paid for by taxes

That about sums it up. "Free" and "paid for by taxes" are interchangeable to the this mindset.

The problem is that you aren't putting the fire out for you, after all his house burned down, you are putting it out for everyone else. Rare is the case the fire department can get to a house fire quick enough to save much. Any fire that needs the department is likely to get real big, real fast, and water damage is not trivial. However, if you ignore the fire, well, just ask London about what happened in 1666. You can have a whole damn city burn down.

So the home owner could have ignored it, not called 911, said "Well, insurance will cover it, I don't want to pay for the water." Then as the fire spread, the town would get to pay for a whole lot more water as their shiat started catching on fire.

Fire service is the kind of thing you really have to be willing to publicly fund because it isn't the person who's place is on fire that has the issue, it is everyone else around them. If my place catches fire, my insurance company is paying out my coverage pretty much no matter what. A fire would spread quick in my house, and the fire department does not spare on the water putting shiat out. That's not why I'd call them, I'd call them because I'd rather not see my neighbourhood burned to the ground.

Same reason I'll call them if I see another house on fire. I won't say "Oh well, not my house, not my problem." Hell no, I want that shiat out before it IS my problem.


Tips hat to your curtious and correct reply, I just hate republitard stupid and refuse to show them the courtesy of a thoughtfull reply at this point
2012-12-01 02:03:51 AM  
1 votes:
Wouldn't homeowner's insurance cover that sort of thing?

And I'm totally familiar with bogus fees. I just got a fire protection fee. "We're compensating for budget cuts." What cut? I didn't cut your budget. My property tax went up. Just another illegal tax increase. They think because they call it a fee instead of a tax, everything's cool. I'd treat it like the Adventure Pass bullshiat but failing to pay this new, illegal tax would have significant consequences. All I can do is gripe about it.
2012-12-01 02:03:20 AM  
1 votes:
Let the tucker burn then take out the whole neighborhood tuck it. Let the neighbors think about that. Republican stupid.
2012-12-01 01:50:51 AM  
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: How do yo bill a person for water that didn't go through there meter?


The truck is equipped with a meter, perhaps?

/that's actually a question. i really don't know
2012-12-01 01:44:28 AM  
1 votes:
Go ahead. "free market" and tax cut your way out of using emergency services.
2012-12-01 01:39:02 AM  
1 votes:
How do yo bill a person for water that didn't go through there meter?
2012-12-01 01:31:51 AM  
1 votes:
We had a house fire when I was a kid. My parents got a water bill that was in the thousands of dollars for the water the fire department used to put out the fire. I guess water ain't free.
2012-12-01 01:24:37 AM  
1 votes:
Wait until they get the bill from the Red Cross for the sandwiches, coffee, blankets and hotel room.
2012-12-01 01:23:57 AM  
1 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: Well since it's an area covered by a volunteer fire department, it most likely means that they may very well have not ever paid any taxes to support the volunteer fire department


A volunteer Fire department in my area means that the firefighters are not paid a salary/wage. However, the residents are taxed for: The building, the equipment, the overhead, the kegs of beer,the firefighters pensions, the firefighter's discount on property taxes, EMS/ambulatory services, conventions in Vegas, training and other miscellaneous expenditures.
2012-12-01 01:18:21 AM  
1 votes:
Send the town the house burned down in the bill
2012-12-01 01:17:43 AM  
1 votes:

MisterTweak: Funny, how people scream and moan that they want smaller government, without really putting too much thought into exactly what it is that government spends all that tax money on, and how things might change when they have to pick up the tab individually, rather than as a community.


Most objections to small government have to do with the expansion of federal powers worldwide, not local fire services.
2012-11-30 10:00:03 PM  
1 votes:

trivial use of my dark powers: Why not add in wear and tear on the uniforms, gas for the engine, helmet polish, and dalmatian paw salve while you're at it? Commit to your douchebaggery--make me believe it.


Well, you made me believe you didn't RTFA
2012-11-30 08:43:03 PM  
1 votes:
Why not add in wear and tear on the uniforms, gas for the engine, helmet polish, and dalmatian paw salve while you're at it? Commit to your douchebaggery--make me believe it.
 
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