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(Think Progress)   Mississippi Governor devised an "abstinence only" sex education plan, leading to his state having the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in the nation. He would've gotten away with it, if it weren't for those horny, meddling kids   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 96
    More: Ironic, Governors of Mississippi, teenage pregnancy, Mississippi, sex education, abstinence  
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10784 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2012 at 11:33 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-11-30 08:10:36 PM
13 votes:
Republican policies are made up of open lies and do the opposite of what they claim to do.

This story a repeat from every Republican policy for the last 20 years.
2012-11-30 08:48:30 PM
11 votes:
Let's see...

Solutions that have no basis in reality? Check.
Complete disregard for studies or facts? Check.
Blaming the victim? Check.
Refusal to take any responsibility whatsoever? Check.

Yep! It's a Republican.
2012-11-30 10:48:19 PM
9 votes:
Teenagers fark. That's a fact of life. Pretending they don't, wishing they wouldn't, and telling them not to aren't actually going to make them stop farking. It's only going to make them do it more. The same with telling them smoking pot will lead to shooting heroin into your eyeballs. It's just going to make them try weed to see if you're full of shiat or not.

The smart, nay vital thing to do, is tell them how to have sex safely and smartly. Tell them what contraception is and how to use it. Tell them what it does, what it protects them from, and where to get it. Putting a penis into a vagina (or ass or mouth or all three) is not going to summon the rapture or the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse. If these Christofascists ever stopped beating people over the head with a BIble they'd see there's a whole lot of living they're scaring people away from experiencing.
2012-12-01 12:42:01 AM
5 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Still comedy. Or tragedy. Whichever. Link


PERRY: "Abstinence works."

FACTS: "Third highest teen pregnancy rate in nation."

PERRY: "Abstinence works."

FACTS: "Third highest teen pregnancy rate in nation."

PERRY: "Maybe the abstinence isn't being applied right."

Setting aside that massive mountain of cognitive dissiWTF, Perry chose to NOT mention he's being paid by federal tax dollars to teach abstinence as part of Bush's "faith-based initiative." You know, as part of that smaller-government bootstrappy independence thing because this is a Chrissss-chun Naaa-shun.
2012-11-30 11:37:45 PM
5 votes:
Conservatives accuse liberals of "magical thinking", and then assume teenagers won't fark just because you tell them not to...
2012-11-30 08:58:08 PM
5 votes:
That is what happens when you have unrealistic expectations. I mean really you think you can take the nature out of teenage hormones. It didn't happen when those prudes were kids or when their parents were kids. Its the illusion of the mid 20th century where they buried the truth in leave it to beaver.
2012-12-01 01:12:10 AM
4 votes:

JohnnyC: Realists arm teenagers with knowledge... while the religious just shame them and try to scare them. A shame, really...

At least if my kids end up getting pregnant/getting someone pregnant, they'll know why.


Shame is a huge component of the problem...but, I think you've slightly missed exactly why that is.

I'm pretty sure most of these kids understand that sex leads to children and that there are birth control methods out there that can prevent pregnancy.

The problem is that the entire culture they're surrounded by says that sex before marriage is evil. And, after marriage, sex is only for procreation. What girl, in that sort of society, is going to go to her doctor to ask for a birth control prescription? What girl is going to go to the pharmacy to pick it up? What boy is going to buy condoms at the drug store where he might be seen by nosy neighbors?

One of most important keys to sexual health, in my opinion, is dissipating the shame that has historically been attached to the subject. Comprehensive sex education is one of the most important steps in making that happen. But, it's not the only step.
2012-12-01 01:02:40 AM
4 votes:

tacojohn: They should do a statistical test and randomly assign half the students to abstinence based education and the other half to comprehensive sexual education and see which group has a lower rate of teen pregnancy.


No need. States are the laboratories of democracy, and we have enough data from different regions using different methods to say definitively that abstinence-only doesn't work and comprehensive education does.
2012-12-01 12:33:43 AM
4 votes:

pedrop357: That's the problem. Who decides what gets taught in public schools, if not the people who pay the taxes and vote for the school board?


People are stupid. Consider how stupid the average person is and then remember that 50% of humanity is stupider than that. There is no way that parents should be designing the curriculum.
2012-12-01 12:27:47 AM
4 votes:

pedrop357: StashMonster: YES YES YES

The kids go to school to be educated. As in, learn facts.
This isn't a valid excuse for teaching creationism [intelligent design] so why should sex education be any different?
I don't even think parents should have the option of saying they don't want their kids to attend these lessons.

It takes five farking minutes for a teacher to explain how condoms are used, if that. And surely understanding how the pill works would be part of a general biology education?

If these kids are going to study biology in any sort of serious way they will need to know about a lot more than just contraception.

Ridiculous. Could only happen in America.

That's the problem. Who decides what gets taught in public schools, if not the people who pay the taxes and vote for the school board?


There are these things called "facts" and these other things called "myths".
Guess which ones schools NEED to teach?
2012-12-01 12:10:19 AM
4 votes:

pedrop357: It would also appear that a higher proportion of parents of children in Mississippi aren't teaching anything but abstinence either. This would seem to suggest that a non-abstinence curriculum would go against the wishes of a significant number of people in the population.

What exactly would you suggest? School districts go against the wishes of the voters in their districts? We may think it's idiotic and/or shortsighted, but this is what the people seem to have chosen. Similar to how cities and states demand marijuana legalization or de-prioritization, many people in MS have chose against more comprehensive or balanced sex education in favor of abstinence only. It sucks, but it isn't merely schools and the government doing it, it's the parents and relatives of these teens. Until their attitudes change, that of the schools won't.


YES YES YES

The kids go to school to be educated. As in, learn facts.
This isn't a valid excuse for teaching creationism [intelligent design] so why should sex education be any different?
I don't even think parents should have the option of saying they don't want their kids to attend these lessons.

It takes five farking minutes for a teacher to explain how condoms are used, if that. And surely understanding how the pill works would be part of a general biology education?

If these kids are going to study biology in any sort of serious way they will need to know about a lot more than just contraception.

Ridiculous. Could only happen in America.
2012-11-30 11:51:58 PM
4 votes:
"Scars may fade. A baby is FOREVER."

They are? I thought they grew out of that phase at some point.
2012-11-30 09:23:33 PM
4 votes:

Revek: That is what happens when you have unrealistic expectations. I mean really you think you can take the nature out of teenage hormones. It didn't happen when those prudes were kids or when their parents were kids. Its the illusion of the mid 20th century where they buried the truth in leave it to beaver.


Well, the Republicans are anti-Science. You think they understand things like "Hormones"?
2012-12-01 02:42:31 AM
3 votes:
giftedmadness: "Do u really believe teens don't know what a condom is unless its taught in a classroom?"

Teens who receive *practical* sexual education have lower rates of teen pregnancy and STDs. That's what the numbers show. Time and again.

Whether the kids are actually learning about condoms for the first time is irrelevant. The education helps. Without it, they do *measurably* worse.
There's no need for an appeal to our own faulty memories or anecdata. Science has been done on the topic. Data collected. Falsifiable hypotheses tested.

Teaching kids about condoms and safer sex *works*.
Teaching kids only about abstinence and religious values does not.
2012-12-01 02:31:41 AM
3 votes:
Clemkadidlefark (farkied: Douchebag who uses "Democrat" as an adjective): Abstinence does work. You know, as in morality.

Until you Publicans throw the profiteers and warmongers out of your party, you can STFU about morality.
2012-12-01 01:23:38 AM
3 votes:

Clemkadidlefark: THINK PROGRESS is, as always, cherry picking data. Abstinence does work. You know, as in morality.



Abstinence works if you don't want to get pregnant and you don't want disease. Abstinence is also not a real world solution. In the real world, people f*ck (maybe not you, but most people)... even teenagers. Brand new bodyparts plus hormones at 200 mph means there are some who will have sex.

Let me repeat that... they will have sex.

A logical solution (like in a class) would be to say "not having sex is 100% effective against pregnancy and disease. However, since that's not how normal humans work, this is how to reduce your chances to near zero".

And one more thing... who in the bucket of f*ck are you to say that your "morality" is better than anyone elses? You only get to define what "morality" is for the space inside your head, not mine. F*ck you and your "morality", and leave everyone else alone.
2012-12-01 01:04:05 AM
3 votes:
I think when people approach human nature for what it is rather than what they want it to be, they will find it much easier to manage. This is a good example. Teenagers have sex... that's a fact. There is no avoiding that fact, there is no getting around that fact, it simply is a fact. Not all teenagers will (manage), of course, but a good portion will end up having sex. The question one should be asking themselves in light of that fact is, "Are teenagers better off wandering into sex with foreknowledge passed down to them from their parents and society or bumbling through it like hormones on a mission?"

Realists arm teenagers with knowledge... while the religious just shame them and try to scare them. A shame, really...

At least if my kids end up getting pregnant/getting someone pregnant, they'll know why.
2012-12-01 12:25:21 AM
3 votes:
Two words about abstinence only sex education. Bristol Palin. That is all.
2012-11-30 11:54:58 PM
3 votes:

pedrop357: It would also appear that a higher proportion of parents of children in Mississippi aren't teaching anything but abstinence either. This would seem to suggest that a non-abstinence curriculum would go against the wishes of a significant number of people in the population.

What exactly would you suggest? School districts go against the wishes of the voters in their districts? We may think it's idiotic and/or shortsighted, but this is what the people seem to have chosen. Similar to how cities and states demand marijuana legalization or de-prioritization, many people in MS have chose against more comprehensive or balanced sex education in favor of abstinence only. It sucks, but it isn't merely schools and the government doing it, it's the parents and relatives of these teens. Until their attitudes change, that of the schools won't.


It's our national duty to drag Mississippi kicking and screaming into the 20th century.
2012-11-30 11:45:41 PM
3 votes:
It would also appear that a higher proportion of parents of children in Mississippi aren't teaching anything but abstinence either. This would seem to suggest that a non-abstinence curriculum would go against the wishes of a significant number of people in the population.

What exactly would you suggest? School districts go against the wishes of the voters in their districts? We may think it's idiotic and/or shortsighted, but this is what the people seem to have chosen. Similar to how cities and states demand marijuana legalization or de-prioritization, many people in MS have chose against more comprehensive or balanced sex education in favor of abstinence only. It sucks, but it isn't merely schools and the government doing it, it's the parents and relatives of these teens. Until their attitudes change, that of the schools won't.
2012-11-30 09:20:14 PM
3 votes:
The plan had several parts:
1) no sex until marriage
2) overturn Obamacare
3) huge tax cuts for the extremely wealthy
You can't expect to see results until it's fully implemented
2012-11-30 08:37:24 PM
3 votes:
So prayer and wishful thinking don't work? I need to re-examine my life strategies.
2012-11-30 08:24:07 PM
3 votes:
States ranked by median household income

50 Mississippi $36,919

I believe their strategy is to outnumber us and take our fancy big-city dwellings.
2012-12-01 02:05:04 PM
2 votes:

randomjsa: So you're saying that the following statement is not factual...

"Don't have sex and you won't get pregnant"

Okay, so you're not, you're just assuming that when people are told that... Even teenagers... They are so stupid that they don't know what condoms are or what the results of unprotected sex are.

Do you know what Mississippi also has one of the highest rates of? Poverty. It's going to have one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy no matter what you do.


randomjsa: Oh and...

http://www.cdc.gov/VitalSigns/TeenPregnancy/images/state-info-mapA_62 6 px.jpg

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Poverty-rates - by-State-2009.jpg

Gee I wonder... what could possibly be the correlation here?


So, what you're saying is that years and years of Republicanist policies not only make you poor as shiat, they also increase your chances of being knocked up?
2012-12-01 02:43:34 AM
2 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Yea, I know but what if you use two forms of birth control, my gosh the cost skyrocket.
/And that wind bag should be in jail.


I wouldn't say he should be in jail; I'm a firm believer in freedom of speech, and the "ditto head" bumper sticker gives me a great impression of the intelligence level I am dealing with when meeting someone for the first time.

I am well aware of the costs to a woman for the 6-month exams that she NEEDS in order to safely use The Pill, as well as the risks involved in things like IUD's, Norplant, and The B*tch Shot. Women have complex plumbing, and if us guys want access to a really nice, fully functioning and disease-free model we should make damn sure that EVERY woman has access to excellent health care so that the one we fall for (okay, or pick up drunkenly in a bar one night) has her hoo-ha in great working condition.

If medical science views impotence as a "condition" that can be treated with medication, as good sexual health means good prostrate health means good overall health, then we need to make sure that we have access to healthy hoo-has to practice that good sexual health with. I'm all for gay marriage, but I'm not interested in dudes (except for Ryan Gosling). I would like to make sure that the pool of available women to keep my (and my fellow men's) prostrate healthy are healthy themselves, and I am willing to pay extra on my health insurance to make that happen. If you want to call it selfish, I can understand that; however, it seems that the argument of keeping women healthy for the sake of basic human decency is lost on many people.
2012-12-01 01:15:32 AM
2 votes:

pedrop357: simplicimus: No, the former. It all depends on how soon the parents want to become grandparents.

Some of the complacent in more comprehensive sex ed might come from a I-was-a-teen-parent-and-I-turned-out-fine or an 'understanding' that this is just how it is.

Not saying I agree, just that it's going to take more then talking to the governor to change such a stance on education as it pertains to sex ed.


I was a single dad with a teenage daughter. I told her that, when she felt ready, I would provide the pills and condoms. When she was ready, I provided. Even if I am old as hell, I still remember being a teenager.
2012-12-01 12:59:23 AM
2 votes:

Clemkadidlefark: THINK PROGRESS is, as always, cherry picking data. Abstinence does work. You know, as in morality. But only if the community in total is on board, as in more than just a "government program". Like, families, mothers, fathers, churches, schools, teachers, the general moral culture of an area, friends, neighbors, colleagues, etc etc etc. (thinking cap) ... as in everyone in the social structure shares at least some sort of value that waiting until marriage is the ideal.

THINK PROGRESS wants government solutions to private social challenges and why they mock failure. This is why THINK PROGRESS sucks donkey kong.


Clemkadidlefark: THINK PROGRESS is, as always, cherry picking data. Abstinence does work. You know, as in morality. But only if the community in total is on board, as in more than just a "government program". Like, families, mothers, fathers, churches, schools, teachers, the general moral culture of an area, friends, neighbors, colleagues, etc etc etc. (thinking cap) ... as in everyone in the social structure shares at least some sort of value that waiting until marriage is the ideal.

THINK PROGRESS wants government solutions to private social challenges and why they mock failure. This is why THINK PROGRESS sucks donkey kong.


Or, you know, parents could do like, I don't know, parenting?
2012-12-01 12:40:57 AM
2 votes:

Amos Quito: 12349876: Amos Quito: Not defending what may or may not have been previously implied, but single motherhood has, in fact, been quite the challenge among the black community in particular, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, but you're making a huge leap in assuming all those single mothers got pregnant as teens.

Plus there's plenty of heavily white states like Arkansas, Kentucky, and West Virginia that also have much higher than normal teen pregnancy rates and states like New York and New Jersey with black population rates near the national average have much lower than average teenage pregnancy rates.


I'm not making any "huge leaps".

The destruction of the nuclear family unit is devastating society at large.

The US black community is merely a shining example,


Destruction of the nuclear family does not require teens getting pregnant.
2012-12-01 12:30:50 AM
2 votes:

Amos Quito: Not defending what may or may not have been previously implied, but single motherhood has, in fact, been quite the challenge among the black community in particular, wouldn't you agree?


Yes, but you're making a huge leap in assuming all those single mothers got pregnant as teens.

Plus there's plenty of heavily white states like Arkansas, Kentucky, and West Virginia that also have much higher than normal teen pregnancy rates and states like New York and New Jersey with black population rates near the national average have much lower than average teenage pregnancy rates.
2012-12-01 12:27:43 AM
2 votes:

trivial use of my dark powers: Let's see...

Solutions that have no basis in reality? Check.
Complete disregard for studies or facts? Check.
Blaming the victim? Check.
Refusal to take any responsibility whatsoever? Check.

Yep! It's a Republican.


This X 1000.

It's getting pretty farking ridiculous.
2012-12-01 12:20:25 AM
2 votes:

tacojohn: They should do a statistical test and randomly assign half the students to abstinence based education and the other half to comprehensive sexual education and see which group has a lower rate of teen pregnancy.


I would bet that the information itself that's conveyed to students of actual comprehensive sex ed doesn't wholly account for their better odds at dodging pregnancy and STDs. I suspect that a large part in its success is that they receive the information from teachers, i.e., authority figures. When teachers (or parents, for that matter) use an abstinence-only approach, it appears they're making a tacit moral judgment on the teens who give into their sex drive. Whereas the kids who have been properly taught how to handle it will do so without fear of shame.

Or I could be totally wrong. I'm just going by what I remember from being a teen surrounded by other teens.
2012-12-01 12:13:20 AM
2 votes:
Why this sort of thing is a surprise to anyone is beyond my comprehension (as a lot of things are anyway). When you get some idiot screaming about "No, if they have a condom, they'll have sex!!" I seriously want to smack some sense into someone and tell them their precious snowflake is probably having sex anyway, they need to be safe about it, that way they're not a teen parent, with the AIDS.

I seriously can't stand the stoopid of the "abstinence only" crowd. Kids are stupid and do stupid things. Keep them as safe as possible, and that safety includes knowing about proper condom usage. Hurr de durr.
2012-12-01 12:07:28 AM
2 votes:

zippythechimp: elchip: In his defense, Mississippi also has the highest percentage of African-Americans in the country (37%).

[students.com.miami.edu image 450x201]

Yep


Your point being...what? That somehow black kids don't go to public schools? Or that abstinence-only sex ed would work for white kids? Or that black parents are unusually resistant to other forms of sex ed? That black girls get preggers more than white girls?

What does having a higher percentage of blacks than anyone else have to do with it, exactly? Or did you just need any excuse to pull out your sheets tonight?
2012-12-01 12:02:36 AM
2 votes:
They should do a statistical test and randomly assign half the students to abstinence based education and the other half to comprehensive sexual education and see which group has a lower rate of teen pregnancy.
2012-11-30 11:52:08 PM
2 votes:

Waldo Pepper: really what teens haven't heard about birth control.


An overwhelming majority of these people don't even believe in evolution.

That's the level of general societal ignorance and scientific illiteracy they're dealing with.
2012-11-30 11:50:29 PM
2 votes:
How do they do as far as reading/writing, adding/subtracting or other subjects

Maybe it doesn't matter what you teach these kids in regards to sex ed.....I doubt their brains retain anything you teach them.
2012-11-30 11:43:38 PM
2 votes:
Never been to the deep south, but I get the sense that it's America's Third World.
2012-11-30 11:41:30 PM
2 votes:

BronyMedic: [www.gribblenation.com image 576x426]

They need to add an additional sign once you cross the state line. "Warning: Now entering failcountry." Or Maybe "Mississippi: Atleast we're not as bad as Alabama"


Hey wait a minute Mississippi is the reason Alabama isn't last in everything : )
2012-11-30 10:44:39 PM
2 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: States ranked by median household income

50 Mississippi $36,919

I believe their strategy is to outnumber us and take our fancy big-city dwellings.


After spending the past four months in Biloxi, Mississippi; I'd surprised it's even that high.
2012-11-30 09:49:13 PM
2 votes:

Mentat: I thought babies are a gift from God. Why are they trying to prevent pregnancies?


Most gifts can be returned if you don't want them.
2012-11-30 09:44:06 PM
2 votes:
I thought babies are a gift from God. Why are they trying to prevent pregnancies?
2012-11-30 08:51:38 PM
2 votes:
Stay classy, Mississippi!

Oh, wait...you were never classy

SECEDE MISSISSIPPI!!
2012-12-01 02:54:47 PM
1 votes:

Lernaeus: Look, it's real simple, folks - no charts or graphs needed.

Mississippi is a poor state, and there's nothing to do.


A more thoughtful person might say that Mississippi is a poor state because teen pregnancy tends to cause multigenerational poverty.
2012-12-01 12:09:30 PM
1 votes:

pedrop357: It would also appear that a higher proportion of parents of children in Mississippi aren't teaching anything but abstinence either. This would seem to suggest that a non-abstinence curriculum would go against the wishes of a significant number of people in the population.

What exactly would you suggest? School districts go against the wishes of the voters in their districts? We may think it's idiotic and/or shortsighted, but this is what the people seem to have chosen. Similar to how cities and states demand marijuana legalization or de-prioritization, many people in MS have chose against more comprehensive or balanced sex education in favor of abstinence only. It sucks, but it isn't merely schools and the government doing it, it's the parents and relatives of these teens. Until their attitudes change, that of the schools won't.


If it was up to Mississippi parents, the kids wouldn't have more than a 3rd grade education.
2012-12-01 06:08:16 AM
1 votes:
Why are you guys still talking to that troll? Don't you have any porn you could be watching?
2012-12-01 04:42:08 AM
1 votes:
img209.imageshack.us

But seriously, guys. Stop arguing with him. He's either a dedicated troll with too much time on his hands or he's dumber than a flaming bag of dogshiat. Either way, you may as well go shout at a stump.
2012-12-01 04:24:49 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/02/abstinence.study/index.html


Dude, seriously, if you don't stop quoting articles about the same goddamn study where I've pointed out the glaring methodological flaws in using self-reported sexual activity, I'm going to come find you, rip your arms out of your sockets, and start beating you senseless with them.
2012-12-01 04:14:52 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: Ur a Moran, most welfare goes to blue states.


You overplayed your hand. Good night all!
2012-12-01 03:55:08 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: Lmao...that is your claim


On the contrary, my claim is that states that promote abstinence only sex education have higher teen birth rates. It is backed up by the data I have provided. You have made a statement opposing my thesis, therefore it is on you to provide data refuting my statement. I never made the statement:

giftedmadness: States where abstinence education prevails yet teen pregnancy remains high


Therefore you must provide data backing up this statement or you will be laughed at and called silly for believing Republican talking points.

Once again, (citation needed).
2012-12-01 03:53:55 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: ox45tallboy: giftedmadness: This proves my point actually , thanks. Lack of general education has nothing to do with abstinence only Ed

Actually, it provides a direct correlation. Lack of general education leads to people voting for "abstinence only" sex ed. You're only making yourself look sillier here.

Correlation is not causation


Correlation does not rule out causation either, kid.
2012-12-01 03:38:50 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: This proves my point actually , thanks. Lack of general education has nothing to do with abstinence only Ed


Actually, it provides a direct correlation. Lack of general education leads to people voting for "abstinence only" sex ed. You're only making yourself look sillier here.
2012-12-01 03:32:16 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/01/AR201 0 020102628.html


All of your citations are citing the same study. Are you intentionally posting these separately in order for there to appear that there is more evidence that supports your claims?
2012-12-01 03:28:57 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: http://www.aolnews.com/2010/02/02/study-teaching-abstinence-works-bet t er-than-sex-ed/


This study also suffers from social desirability bias since it relies on self-reporting of sexual activity status. If you want me to take you seriously, stop posting links to articles with clear methodological flaws.
2012-12-01 03:18:48 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: Provide evidence of your claims first


Well you made the claim abstinence only works, and in light of the the teen pregnancy and birth rates in places like Mississippi, you still haven't provided any proof that it actually works. Also, you haven't even provided an argument why it's anyone's business to stop teens from having sex.
2012-12-01 03:08:16 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: Again, do u have any proof that ab.sex Education leads to higher preg rates? Do u have stats about this states year by year teen preg rates? Correlation is not causation


www.cdc.gov


No, correlation has absolutely nothing to do with causation. Except when it does.
2012-12-01 03:07:46 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: WhyteRaven74: giftedmadness: Citations?

The lowest rate of teen pregnancy in the nation is in Massachusetts, and they have actual sex ed.

Correlation is not causation


There are many reasons why, when we have a relationship between factors A and B, we can reject a conclusion that A causes B:

- B actually causes A.
- A third factor C causes both A and B.
- It is a complete coincidence that A and B are related.

I think it's pretty absurd to say that more teen pregnancies cause schools to teach abstinence-only sex education or to drop sex education requirements altogether.

I cannot think of any factors that would cause schools to change their sex education requirements AND cause more teen pregnancies at the same time. Perhaps you can, in which case I am all ears.

As absurd as it is to say that higher teen pregnancy rates cause schools to drop sex education requirements or teach abstinence-only sex education, I think it's an even more absurd conclusion to say that their relationship is 100% coincidental.
2012-12-01 02:55:10 AM
1 votes:

giftedmadness: ox45tallboy: giftedmadness: Do u really believe teens don't know what a condom is unless its taught in a classroom? Do u have stats year by year of teen prego rates? This would obviously be helpful

You know, I though about responding to this with, "Do you really think a 16-year-old doesn't know what a car is? So why can't they drive one?" But I realized that operating a car is more complex than putting on a condom.

At the age of fifteen, had you ever had a condom demonstrated for you?

Yes, I do really believe that proper use (and especially storage! A condom is not good if it's been in your wallet for six months!) of condoms is something that should be taught and not assumed.

If you didn't get your teenage sex education from school or your parents, where did you get it? From the locker room? If you're like me, you know what kind of misinformation is spread in high school P.E. locker rooms. Now think about the number of kids that don't get their sex ed from their school in health class, and think about where they do get it.

Again, do u have any proof that ab.sex Education leads to higher preg rates? Do u have stats about this states year by year teen preg rates? Correlation is not causation


This report covers the different kinds of sex education classes that are taught in various states (if they are taught at all). This report covers teen pregnancy rates broken down by state for 2006. Without going through an actual statistical analysis, it sure does appear that the states with abstinence-only sex education or no sex education whatsoever have higher teen pregnancy rates.

And you're right that correlation doesn't equal causation, but that's because you have to figure out what a causal link between the factors might be. In this case, the causal link is that people who don't learn about birth control methods in school are much less likely to use said birth control methods when they have sex, and sex leads to more pregnancies when birth control is not used.
2012-12-01 02:43:57 AM
1 votes:
Abstinence only education is doing exactly what it was intended to do: increase the population.

It actually works against the Republicans from a voter stand-point, but, hey, it gives us plenty of people to wage another war with.
2012-12-01 02:06:33 AM
1 votes:

LavenderWolf: Because People in power are Stupid: States ranked by median household income

50 Mississippi $36,919

I believe their strategy is to outnumber us and take our fancy big-city dwellings.

Wouldn't really have to outnumber you. They'd be fighting dirty

/we.


They do fight dirty, and in sometimes not so sly ways! When some of the Norwegian relatives came to visit us little tiny clan in Cali, one of them looked me right in the face and said "I forgive you". EXCUSE YOU??? Not only do I not need her forgiveness, there is no forgiveness in Heathenism. I am somewhere between Forn Sed and Nordisk Sed, so I take full responsibility for all of my actions. So should everyone else, including crazy Lutheran chick cousin. Fark you, biatch. I let her have it. Verbally. She got lucky.

/wanna fight dirty, I'll give ya tips
//and not a single person escaped verbally unscathed that day
///I won, so there.
2012-12-01 01:57:24 AM
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: So it was working?
/ Just kidding
//It's amazing how education and poverty affect these sorts of things


I am thoroughly convinced that poor people f*ck more because they don't have anything else to do.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that at all, just that sometimes more wealthy people watch a movie or go out on the town or (*gasp*) engage in intellectual conversation for entertainment at times. Poor people don't have many other options. Therefore, it is of even more importance that poor people be provided sex ed than those more well off, not only because they f*ck more, but because they can't afford the children.
2012-12-01 01:52:55 AM
1 votes:

Serious Black: Good point. Speaking of opposition to abortion, we could also emulate this guy:


It's not the opposition to abortion as much as enforcement of religious ideology because God is impotent and requires humans to do his dirty work of saving souls at the cost of lives for him.

Just like the Taliban.

However, it is somewhat unfair to compare the Mississippi government to those who kill in the name of God, as they aren't actually taking lives, just f*cking up lives by keeping people stupid.
2012-12-01 01:48:32 AM
1 votes:
Clemkadidlefark: Abstinence does work. You know, as in morality. But only if the community in total is on board, as in more than just a "government program". Like, families, mothers, fathers, churches, schools, teachers, the general moral culture of an area, friends, neighbors, colleagues, etc etc etc. (thinking cap) ... as in everyone in the social structure shares at least some sort of value that waiting until marriage is the ideal.

Oh dear!! You're suggesting a form of...of...[horrors!!!]...community organizing!!
2012-12-01 01:40:24 AM
1 votes:

Coco LaFemme: Teenagers fark. That's a fact of life. Pretending they don't, wishing they wouldn't, and telling them not to aren't actually going to make them stop farking. It's only going to make them do it more. The same with telling them smoking pot will lead to shooting heroin into your eyeballs. It's just going to make them try weed to see if you're full of shiat or not.

The smart, nay vital thing to do, is tell them how to have sex safely and smartly. Tell them what contraception is and how to use it. Tell them what it does, what it protects them from, and where to get it. Putting a penis into a vagina (or ass or mouth or all three) is not going to summon the rapture or the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse. If these Christofascists ever stopped beating people over the head with a BIble they'd see there's a whole lot of living they're scaring people away from experiencing.


I think a potential problem is even if you do force Mississippi schools to teach about contraceptives, they will try to twist the curriculum to make it look like they are ineffective. Fundamentalist Christian church leaders tell flat-out lies like condoms have a 90% failure rate, the morning after-pill is abortive and not contraceptive, and so on. They have official-looking but deliberately flawed studies reported by Parent's Concerned Family Values-type groups to back them up.

Many schools in the Deep South still hold prayers in spite of the separation of church and state. Not much of a stretch to think teachers will derp about how condoms almost always break, or how HPV shots will turn little Bobbie Sue into an insatiable human succubus, etc.
2012-12-01 01:34:11 AM
1 votes:

pedrop357: A public school teaching Abstinence in place of a more comprehensive sex is not a 14th amendment issue, or larger equal rights issue, so the issue comes back to who decides on abstinence vs. a more comprehensive curriculum?


Hmmm... you're right, I guess a better example would be the Scopes Monkey Trials, and whether or not the teaching of evolution should be outlawed based upon the fact that most people in Tennessee "believe" that evolution is bullsh*t and the Earth is 6,000 years old.
2012-12-01 01:34:00 AM
1 votes:
Making fun of Mississippi is like making fun of the mentally challenged. There's no challenge to it, and in the end you look like a huge asshole.
2012-12-01 01:26:29 AM
1 votes:

pedrop357: My issue and my points here go beyond a governor of a state or Republicans. Schools are not the only place to learn about sex education, contraception, etc. so the issue and the blame lies with the parents, relatives, and voting population at large. Everyone who seems to have a say has chosen this particular curriculum over others.


But an educated population will go with the method that they see the evidence of working. The problem is, you have to educate the first generation enough to look at the actual data instead of relying on their local preacher's interpretation of a "holy book".

Kind of like

1.bp.blogspot.com
"...and den dey eat da poo poo!"


How do you fight ignorance if the people won't allow their children to be educated, and insist that it is their right as parents that their children grow up with the same prejudices they did?
2012-12-01 01:25:47 AM
1 votes:

phrawgh: Notabunny: Serious Black: News Flash: Sex is fun.

You know what else if fun? Reading the Bible. So the next time you're at your girlfriend's house and you can't think of anything to do, just lean over, reach out, and grab a handful of the Word of the Lord!

You hit the nail on the head. We need to get God and scripture back in the schools and all facets of life. We really need to get back to the old time religion. Real true Christianity is the answer. Not the white washed, everybody feel good crap.The Lord handed us down directions on how to deal with these issues. We ignore the Lord at our peril and now look at the state of our country. The time has come to burn the non-Christians, heretics and unbelievers.

It is time we truly took our country back. We all know what that means. It will not be pretty or easy. Our country is being run into the ground by blasphemers and unbelievers. If we do not do what we know we must, destroy the unbelievers, our loving and merciful Lord will turn His back on us and we will burn in a lake of fire.

I guarantee after we stone a few of the harlots to death the rest will take notice and decide to live moral and right.


Or we can just shoot them like the Taliban shot Malala Yousafazi. That's pretty much the same thing, right?
2012-12-01 01:23:05 AM
1 votes:
Morality is the way you think the world should be

Data is the way the world really is

The fundies are continually running into these brick walls called data

That pesky nigra won the election despite our prayers

Sandy devastated NY despite Fox News telling us that climate change was a liberal plot

Even Pat Robertson says the facts show world is more than 6000 years old

The election post-mortem continually cites the GOP/Jesusland anti-science attitude as a factor in their defeat

and abstinence-only sex ed fails once again, according to data

drip by drip the mountain erodes
2012-12-01 01:19:46 AM
1 votes:

eraser8: JohnnyC: I'm pretty sure most of these kids understand that sex leads to children


Having worked with foster kids in California, I can say that your assumption is incorrect. Most of these kids are ignorant here in California and in Mississippi - where ignorance is next to Godliness - they probably think that babies are spontaneously generated.
2012-12-01 01:16:36 AM
1 votes:
Am I the only one who thinks "Scars may fade. A baby is FOREVER" sounds like a pro-abortion message?
2012-12-01 01:11:59 AM
1 votes:
I f babies are always a "gift from God", what is the problem?
2012-12-01 01:11:40 AM
1 votes:

Clemkadidlefark: Abstinence does work. You know, as in morality.


You seem to be working under the assumption that religion, specifically your flavor of religion, is the source of morals... how conceited.
2012-12-01 01:09:52 AM
1 votes:

simplicimus: No, the former. It all depends on how soon the parents want to become grandparents.


Some of the complacent in more comprehensive sex ed might come from a I-was-a-teen-parent-and-I-turned-out-fine or an 'understanding' that this is just how it is.

Not saying I agree, just that it's going to take more then talking to the governor to change such a stance on education as it pertains to sex ed.
2012-12-01 01:07:04 AM
1 votes:

Clemkadidlefark: THINK PROGRESS is, as always, cherry picking data. Abstinence does work. You know, as in morality. But only if the community in total is on board, as in more than just a "government program". Like, families, mothers, fathers, churches, schools, teachers, the general moral culture of an area, friends, neighbors, colleagues, etc etc etc. (thinking cap) ... as in everyone in the social structure shares at least some sort of value that waiting until marriage is the ideal.


You are correct. Enjoy your high poverty rate.
2012-12-01 01:05:36 AM
1 votes:

Mentat: No need. States are the laboratories of democracy, and we have enough data from different regions using different methods to say definitively that abstinence-only doesn't work and comprehensive education does.


I couldn't agree more. I don't agree that abstinence only is effective.

Now it's time to let the people in Mississippi and other states decide that AND when they don't, lay the blame on all of them and not simply on the school board, governor, etc.
2012-12-01 01:03:32 AM
1 votes:

pedrop357: simplicimus: Or, you know, parents could do like, I don't know, parenting?

I'm sure a lot of conservative parents think the same thing about birth control or contraceptive education, or both and the parents who go that route.


I think I answered too quickly before really reading your post. If you were suggesting that parents should be the ones to handle (or not handle) this, then my post was wrong.

If you were suggesting that parents who don't teach contraception are not 'parenting', then my response stands.
2012-12-01 12:56:22 AM
1 votes:
Larger point being, this appears to be the will of the parents and voters and will not change unless attitudes change. It doesn't belong just to governors, republicans, etc.
2012-12-01 12:39:03 AM
1 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Free porn and World of Warcraft accounts for all Mississippi teenage boys. Problem solved

/Joke shamelessly stolen


You'd need to chip in a computer and internet access for many of them considering it's Mississippi.
2012-12-01 12:38:39 AM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Republican policies are made up of open lies and do the opposite of what they claim to do.

This story a repeat from every Republican policy for the last 20 years.


20 years? Reagan was funding abstinence-only sex ed in 1981.
2012-12-01 12:34:56 AM
1 votes:

LeafyGreens:


What the fark is up with that kids messed up stomach?? His left hip appears nonexistent and his right side is harboring some type of deformed growth.
2012-12-01 12:20:55 AM
1 votes:

elchip: In his defense, Mississippi also has the highest percentage of African-Americans in the country (37%).


In the 80's the GOP wanted mandatory norplant usage for welfare recipients.

/funny how times change
2012-12-01 12:19:37 AM
1 votes:
What a farking idiot. He shouldn't be able allowed to work or earn money. Make the stupid fark a homeless untouchable.
2012-12-01 12:10:35 AM
1 votes:
Most of the time when reports talk about teen pregnancy rate they cite statistics on birth rates, which are highly impacted by abortion rates. The Guttmacher Institute tends to be one of the only institutions that tracks conceptions, abortions, and births.

Teen conception rates are fairly consistent across the US, running .7% overall, but with wide variance by race. Whites range .3% to about .6%, Blacks and Hispanics ranging from about .9% to 2.2% in Tennessee (with a few outliers in states like Utah and Maine that have very low minority levels), so state rankings are highly correlated with the racial makeup of the state's teens. Likely because of this correlation, DC easily leads the nation in teen conceptions.

I know everyone is enjoying getting their Mississippi bash on, but once broken out by race, Mississippi is above average but doesn't lead in any racial teen conception rates.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/USTPtrends.pdf
Older report, but I've not seen a newer equally comprehensive one.
2012-12-01 12:10:21 AM
1 votes:
Brilliant. These kids will bred even more poor uneducated kids whose only hope is in superstition which in turn ensures they will breed poor uneducated children! And the circle of life continues. Amen!

/them republicrats is some smart fellas
2012-12-01 12:05:13 AM
1 votes:

Giltric: How do they do as far as reading/writing, adding/subtracting or other subjects


I dunno, but it looks like they got multiplication down pat.
2012-12-01 12:03:08 AM
1 votes:
well, were they white babies or black babies or rape babies?

/grew up 662/601, representin in the 213.
2012-12-01 12:00:37 AM
1 votes:
News Flash: Sex is fun.
2012-11-30 11:55:00 PM
1 votes:
Ya know, you don't even need an abstinence only program to work.

What you need is a FUD program from M$

Show the fifth grade boys pictures of shrivled and rotting penises and they'll find protection.
2012-11-30 11:52:11 PM
1 votes:

Waldo Pepper: really what teens haven't heard about birth control.


It's not about hearing, It's about getting it and the consequences if someone finds out.
2012-11-30 11:48:26 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Republican policies are made up of open lies and do the opposite of what they claim to do.

This story a repeat from every Republican policy for the last 20 years.


Done in one.
2012-11-30 11:47:22 PM
1 votes:

drjekel_mrhyde: elchip: In his defense, Mississippi also has the highest percentage of African-Americans in the country (37%).

[students.com.miami.edu image 450x201]

If that's true Obama should have won it right?


No. Whites in Mississippi voted overwhelmingly for the white guy.
2012-11-30 11:44:45 PM
1 votes:

elchip: In his defense, Mississippi also has the highest percentage of African-Americans in the country (37%).

[students.com.miami.edu image 450x201]


If that's true Obama should have won it right?
2012-11-30 09:26:01 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Revek: That is what happens when you have unrealistic expectations. I mean really you think you can take the nature out of teenage hormones. It didn't happen when those prudes were kids or when their parents were kids. Its the illusion of the mid 20th century where they buried the truth in leave it to beaver.

Well, the Republicans are anti-Science. You think they understand things like "Hormones"?


Hormones sounds too much like homos, so of course they reject them (in public).
2012-11-30 08:55:50 PM
1 votes:

simplicimus: So prayer and wishful thinking don't work? I need to re-examine my life strategies.


Nonsense. They just didn't pray hard enough.
2012-11-30 08:43:05 PM
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Still comedy. Or tragedy. Whichever. Link


That man was a serious contender for the White House. That's scary.
2012-11-30 08:38:13 PM
1 votes:
www.gribblenation.com

They need to add an additional sign once you cross the state line. "Warning: Now entering failcountry." Or Maybe "Mississippi: Atleast we're not as bad as Alabama"
 
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