If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Lexington Herald Leader)   Thanks to the War On Pain Pills, now real hillbillies are using real heroin   (kentucky.com) divider line 59
    More: Ironic, Kentucky, Kentucky State Police, heroin, Ohio River, White House Office, oxycodone, Appalachia  
•       •       •

8697 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2012 at 11:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-11-30 11:29:44 AM  
6 votes:
"There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE, ... "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

I don't understand how officer Smoot can say this and not immediately conclude "therefore, the war on drugs is doomed to be a complete failure and waste of money."

The people who are going to take drugs are going to take drugs no matter what; we aren't going to convince them to stop. If you remove one drug, they will find another, and that new one might be worse. We really have to start treating drug addiction as a health issue, rather than a law enforcement issue. The drug war is costing us too much for no socially useful results.
2012-11-30 11:27:31 AM  
5 votes:

Lunaville: I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.


It's more of a need to self-medicate. Opiate addicts can be perfectly functional in society. It's the lack of a clean, cheap, and and reliable opium source that does all the damage.
2012-11-30 11:42:15 AM  
4 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: We still have murders, that doesn't mean laws against murder are a "failure".



You might feel differently if the police were charging people with murder simply because they owned a gun, confiscating vehicles because the trunk vaguely smells of your dead pet you took to the vet last year, confiscating cash and making people prove the money was not earned from a murder contract, etc.

But in the war on drugs, police do these things every day.
2012-11-30 10:31:43 AM  
4 votes:
Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.
2012-11-30 08:46:29 PM  
3 votes:
Just stop with War On American Citizens already. Just unlock the pharmacy. Period. Want to get high on medical heroin (yes, it's evderywhere else just not here)? Get hot. Like some vicodin for big cleaning days? Head on over to Walgreens. Want some adderal to help with that lard ass? Motor on over to CVS. Have a legit medical need for the pain pills, antibiotics, blood pressure pills etc? Get a chit (prescription) from your doctor and get the drugs for 1/2 price and even covered under insurance. No chit? You pay. Had that illness, injury etc. before and know what the doc is going to give you? Save a buck on M.D. fees and just get the meds. Let the M.D. use his time to actually help someone who needs it.

All that extra money from OTC drug sales? It should be split 4 ways. 25% to the retailer for his new paper work, 25% tax to support inspection etc. 25% manufacturer profit (offset real need discounts) 25% rehab superfund. Watch enough friends and family pay a real consequence for a change drug use will moderate on its own.

Employers will still be free to mandate only non-recreational use of drugs. Just like some treat nicotine like drugs now. If you want a safety critical job like police, EMS, driver you may have to abstain.

Doing drugs doesn't make you a criminal any more than eating carrots makes you a scientist or smoking cigars makes you a deer poacher. Engaging in criminal activity makes you a criminal.

Laws of prohibition, support of laws of prohibition is anti-freedom, anti-civil rights anti-american.
2012-11-30 03:16:52 PM  
3 votes:

Jument: Couldn't people just, you know, not abuse drugs? They're bad, m'k?


For starters policy would be better off realizing that (1) not all use is abuse (even recreationally) and (2) not all drugs are the same level of risky.

Currently the drug warriors draw some bright line in between alcohol (OK!) and weed (Evil!) and then lump weed in with "all other drugs" and take horror stories from the worst of heroin and meth addicts and call that "the dangers of drugs."

Whereas, the first drug (as in something you consume that noticeably alters your mood to the point of possibly not being able to work efficiently, and is enjoyable) that most people consume isn't weed, it's ALCOHOL. But alcohol is okay, for various historical reasons. (Of course there are certainly plenty of modern teetotalling crusaders who would like to ban alcohol again as well.)

Meanwhile, (1) abuse of pain pills is happening, abuse of Ritalin and adderall is DEFINITELY happening (big on college campuses, apparently) but they're prescription so sort of "okay," and (2) zero-tolerance for alcohol and weed particularly for young people is leading them to try smoking crazier and crazier things with probably worse side effects.

This idea that it needs to be all or nothing, that taking one sip is the same as being an addict, and that all substances behave the same way (because they make you "an addict" and that's just terrible!!! You're going to jump off a building and rip your face off!!!) with the same risks, is the problem.

On the other hand there are people who seem to think that well, if we legalize things no one will have a drug problem, that isn't right either. There are alcoholics and alcohol is legal. But!! For people who DO have an addiction problem (because people can get addicted to all sorts of things, not even just substances either) making some way for them to properly get treatment for it is probably a better way to go, I would think. Lots of people do realize they have a problem, even aside from the hard core problem people whom maybe just plain can't be helped.
2012-11-30 01:12:32 PM  
3 votes:

vudukungfu: nekom: My solution: Treat substance abuse as a public health issue rather than a criminal one.

My solution: Hancuff them to cots bolted to the floor. Give them water and bread. And when they've been clean for 3 months, they can leave jail.
If you catch them using agian, repeat. No coddle drugs. Just cold turket.
fark them. they bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting in to.
Fark junkies all right to hell.


...opiate withdrawal is incredibly painful and can kill you.

After you quit (or stop taking them... However you want to look at it) you can feel like you have an extremely bad flu for weeks.

Being a junkie is bad. It makes people bad sometimes.

Getting a junkie to quit by strapping them to a cot will do absolutely nothing except for maybe kill them.

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them and I agree with you in theory.

But that wouldn't even kind of work. At all.
2012-11-30 12:52:22 PM  
3 votes:

DubyaHater: Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.


Yep, and now we have been put into the position to have "the talk" with that patient. That talk is seldom a nice quiet conversation. I hate being put in that position. We also have a way to look people up on the state narcotics bureau list. Insurance companies also send us letters about people.

/it's not always who you think it would be
//most time, you're not fooling anyone
///it's our license on the line, not yours.
2012-11-30 11:26:49 AM  
3 votes:
Yet another reason why the "War on Drugs" will never succeed. The government ends up playing whack-a-mole.

Seriously, if we took the route of Portugal, and treated it as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue...we'd have more success.
2012-11-30 11:26:35 AM  
3 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

It depends on whether you have a realistic definition of failure. I don't think there's any doubt that if pain pills were 50 cents a pop on every street corner that far more high school kids would be strung out on narcotics. Just because it hasn't eliminated a problem doesn't mean it hasn't helped. We still have murders, that doesn't mean laws against murder are a "failure".


However, locking up addicts and pretending that's going to solve the problem instead of trying to fix the underlying causes of the addiction that they're probably going to immediately go back to once they get out, especially since they just rotted in prison for essentially no good reason, because we either really like vengeance, or because Prison owners need to make money... that's failure.
2012-11-30 11:23:11 AM  
3 votes:
Darwin is busy in the sleepy hollows. If someone decides not to live their life but to stay in a dream world we should make it easy for them. That way they can OD before they reproduce
2012-11-30 10:43:05 AM  
3 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.


Since when?
2012-11-30 07:00:14 PM  
2 votes:
Years ago I got blood poisoning from an abscessed tooth after a crown fell off and I didn't have the means to see a dentist. After two days of taking OTC Ibuprofen it stopped helping and I went to the ER. After waiting six hours the doc looked in my mouth and said there was no sign of infection. He also added "we don't give drugs out, see a dentist." So I went home and took way too many Ibuprofen and tried to go to sleep only to wake up with a massive pounding in my jaw. So I went back to the same ER and another doc looked at it and said the same thing, except she gave me a shot of Lydocaine. Which of course only wore off in a few hours.

The following morning my jaw had swollen up to where it looked like I had a golf ball in my cheek and I went back to the same ER and guess what? This is a public hospital connected to a state university with a dental school and they have two fully equipped dental exam rooms right there in the ER. So they make an appointment for me to go to their maxiofacial clinic four days later. By then the swelling was so bad my face looked ghastly. When the doc examined me he found that I had this red line running from my jaw to my heart and started barking orders to the other staff. He then gave me a form to sign and began administering anesthesia. When I woke up the tooth was out and they had cut a hole in the bottom of my jaw to let about 8 oz of puss drain, and I spent the next five days in that hospital getting anti-biotic infusion. When I was discharged they presented me with a $24,000 bill. If I hadn't been so buzzed from all the pain pills they had given me I would have freaked out. I was just happy to be alive.

All I wanted was for them to pull the damn tooth, I never once asked them for any sort of medication. At the time I didn't realize it but this hospital had a big problem with people coming in scamming for pain meds. I thought they were denying me treatment because they were just being cheap. But in hindsight I can see it would have cost them a whole lot less had they just pulled the tooth. I got the bill waived after discussing all that with the people in the billing office.

But it sure pissed me off that I came so close to dying all because some jackwagon thinks all people without the ability to pay a dentist are drug addicts. The whole drug warrior crowd can fark right off as far as I'm concerned.
2012-11-30 05:36:58 PM  
2 votes:
I have chronic pain as a result of a constellation of adverse reactions to an antibiotic. If fluoroquinolone antobiotics were treated like controlled substances instead of handed out like candy every time someone sneezes, I would be in no need of pain killers and not have been forced to spend the last 1.7 years in agonizing non-stop pain unable to work and staring at the wall. As another result of being crippled by Cipro, I've had to move back to Ohio from California. In California, it was relatively easy to get the medication I need to keep my pain at a "tolerable" level. Here, they refuse to give you a recurring script, don't pass messages on the doctors and the doctors, themselves, are wildly ignorant about the side effects drugs like fluoroquinolone antibiotics commonly cause. Naproxen made all my nerve pain worse and made me feel like I was high on crack for 18 hours straight. Cymbalta also increased my nerve pain and threw me into what I believe was the beginning of a manic episode. Acetaminophen decreases the body's stores of L-Glutathione thereby increasing joint pain so you'd have to be a fool to take it or anything containing it for joint problems. NSAIDs and steroids interfere with natural swelling which promotes healing and is required for full healing. All of these things are garbage and cause much worse problems than they may potentially and temporarily help with. My ex is a heroin addict and devolved into being a horrible human being. However, making it difficult for people in actual pain to get medication which makes their lives only tolerable does nothing to stop junkies from scoring fentanyl or bricks of xanax. This game is rigged as backwardly as the media producers refusing to provide paid on demand streaming content to punish pirates; it does nothing to stop illegal practices and only punishes the legitimate customers.
2012-11-30 04:54:02 PM  
2 votes:
FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 .

The street price of typical oxy is a couple dollars. For all their contact with drug dealers cops sure get the prices of drugs wrong a lot. I wonder why that is?

/Alcohol is cheap and legal.
//Tramadol is the only thing I've found that works for my back and doesn't make me sleepy.
///It also works very well for depression.
2012-11-30 01:47:34 PM  
2 votes:
Where are all of these people getting their pain pills? I went into the hospital three days after gallbladder surgery because I was in so much pain I thought I was dying, and they thought I was drug seeking and sent me home, where I writhed on the couch at a level 9.5 on the pain scale for 24 hours. Before the surgery, no one would give me anything either, even though my gallbladder hurt so bad it was hard to walk. Hell, at the same time that my gallbladder was going to explode, I had an ectopic pregnancy, which no one could seem to diagnose except me, and which would regularly drop me to the floor at a level 10. That was considered to just be me trying to get pain pills, too, until they opened me up for the gallbladder and saw that I was hemorrhaging from it.

fark the war on pain pills. My doctors let me suffer in a way that no one should ever have to, just because they were afraid I wanted drugs for recreational use. Even though I had legitimate issues, they let me suffer. I have real anger issues over this.
2012-11-30 01:17:26 PM  
2 votes:
I'm riding the dragon right now, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies
2012-11-30 12:43:34 PM  
2 votes:

StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.


Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.
2012-11-30 12:40:47 PM  
2 votes:
Underlying problem? The underlying problem is that people can't cope. Whether they have a mental illness, need instant gratification or are a spoiled farking arsehole...they can't cope. Can't handle your problems or what happens in life? Pop a pill. Load a needle. And guess what? Society in a general sense has taught them this is the answer when they were a kid/teen. Kid acting out? Getting in trouble? Doc writes a script or five. Problem (never) solved. Rinse. Repeat. Have a (short) nice life!
2012-11-30 11:49:42 AM  
2 votes:

slayer199: Yet another reason why the "War on Drugs" will never succeed. The government ends up playing whack-a-mole.

Seriously, if we took the route of Portugal, and treated it as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue...we'd have more success.


Yeah, but Portugal has less of a puritan epidemic than does the US. The War on (Some) Drugs won't stop--like so many other wrong-headed, anti-freedom policies--until the system bankrupts itself. The shiatbags who advocate for these church laws have religious conviction on their side, and are thus unencumbered by issues related to conscience when confronted by the damage their laws cause. Godliness through legislation FTW.
2012-11-30 11:29:54 AM  
2 votes:

Dirtybird971: "We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?" Mark said.

Pay attention! They just said it.

is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.


Or you can just grow your own poppies.

www.plant-and-flower-guide.com
2012-11-30 11:21:33 AM  
2 votes:
"We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?" Mark said.

Pay attention! They just said it.


is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.
2012-11-30 11:19:52 AM  
2 votes:
I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.
2012-11-30 11:13:38 AM  
2 votes:
Why not just let people have whatever pills they want?

I'm serious.
2012-11-30 10:57:09 AM  
2 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.


Indeed. It is widely reported that you can get booze and pretty much any drug you want in prison. At an inflated price that reflects the risks involved, of course, but still. If you can get anything you want in that restrictive environment, you're a fool if you think you're ever going to stop people from getting the drugs they want.

My solution: Treat substance abuse as a public health issue rather than a criminal one.

My not so CSB: In our sleepy little town, within a year there were two fatal overdoses. They had been taking oxycodone patches (time-release, like nicotine patches), slicing them open and chewing on whatever was inside. They might as well have been doing heroin.
2012-11-30 10:51:33 AM  
2 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

 

ferdyonfilms.com
2012-11-30 10:43:34 AM  
2 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.


The drug war hasn't killed quite as many Americans as the civil war, but it's probably cost more and destroyed nearly as many families.
2012-12-01 12:16:30 PM  
1 votes:
Tenatra:

My habit was nightly but I have however had friends that needed it right when they woke up. Withdrawal looks ugly and it was a big motivator for me to get away from it before I fell deeper. For them if they didn't start drinking their bottles right when they woke up it would lead to convulsions and vomiting.

Yeah but how many of those hard-core cases were there? Were all the "alcohol abusers" you knew like that or only some? Two of my buddies back in Louisville and one roommate in Baltimore started drinking as soon as they got up, right after morning coffee if they bothered with that, but most of the drinkers I know wait till evening and then don't get so drunk that they can't walk a straight line.

I'm beginning to think that AA might be partly right: maybe some people are born with a heightened propensity to get physically addicted to alcohol, while most drinkers, even most "heavy" drinkers, just really like the stuff.

The problem I have with the label is when you start calling everybody who usually has two glasses of wine with dinner "alcoholic." In France they call that "over 16."
2012-12-01 12:03:14 PM  
1 votes:

Jon iz teh kewl: Tenatra: Jon iz teh kewl:

an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.

i used to drink about 3-6 beers every night to fall asleep. i quit like 11 months later and had no withdrawal symptoms


Although I'm not a properly degreed, certified and peer-monitored expert, it's my impression that except for the very unlucky rarity, actual physical addiction to alcohol takes a few years to develop -- if it happens at all. Of course when I think about withdrawal from physical addiction to alchohol what comes to mind is a bad case of the shakes, convulsions and DTs: there are many other possible symptoms (link), a lot of which might be attributed to something else. It could be that people sometimes withdraw from alcohol with symptoms so mild they think it's just the flu or something.

Most of the people I've known and heard about who quit drinking struck me as being either non-habituated heavy users (who can quit any time) or psychologically but not physically dependent (who can quit pretty easily any time they make up their mind to). I have heard of people who got bad DTs, had seizures or even died from withdrawal, but what I hear more is just that quitters miss their booze, are a little nervous and short-tempered and have trouble getting to sleep at first, which happen to me when deprived of an Internet connection. (I doubt anybody can really get physically addicted to the World Wide Web without a direct hard-wired neural hookup.)

So my opinion resembles Jon's, that someone gets labelled "alcoholic" because somebody disapproves of his drinking or behavior when he's drunk, regardless of what's actually going on with the actual person. Maybe he just gets drunk as an excuse to beat his wife, maybe his wife got Born Again and finds that disapproving of any drinking at all is part of what that label means, or maybe he got busted for DUI and found that if he volunteered for AA the judge would suspend his sentence.

Be that as it may, I'm never going to move to a dry county; drinking is too much fun to give up, regardless of how easily I might do it. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it.)
2012-12-01 11:37:35 AM  
1 votes:
Jon iz teh kewl:

an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Until he passes out in an important meeting with a big customer and gets fired. Or until his wife finds somebody handsomer, younger, stupider and richer, then it becomes an excuse for divorce.
2012-11-30 09:32:21 PM  
1 votes:

DrBreRuthlessVillain: ThrobblefootSpectre: I do however disagree with the "legalize everything" crowd. I think that's naive and would be socially disastrous. Unfortunately, many people who repeat the "drug war is a failure" rhetoric fall into the latter category.

Minimal snark intended here, but if you're able to say that legalizing everything would be "socially disastrous," then you must have a special ability to see the future that the rest of us--even on the "legalize everything" side of the argument--lack. If I had that ability I'd be busy picking lottery numbers and enjoying the winnings instead of wasting the workday on Fark, but I digress.

The point of legalizing everything, at least for me, is a matter of principle. Would legalization be a "disaster" for society? I don't pretend to know that with any real certainty, but what I do know is that a society that tolerates laws that make contraband out of certain substances is, in effect, an open air prison colony. I support legalization because it's the right thing to do and a good starting point considering what an authoritarian shiatshow prohibition has been. I don't doubt that some people's lives will be disasters post-legalization, but I can only really say that with any certainty because the existing laws haven't done a thing to prevent it in the here and now. One thing is certain: it will still be an imperfect world post-legalization; it's just that do-gooders might be able to channel their efforts a little more productively once the artificial (legal) problems are eliminated.

Start by doing the right thing, then address the problems that remain.


THIS.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences."
― P.J. O'Rourke
2012-11-30 08:41:22 PM  
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Lunaville: I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.

It's more of a need to self-medicate. Opiate addicts can be perfectly functional in society. It's the lack of a clean, cheap, and and reliable opium source that does all the damage.


How many opiate addicts do you actually know? Most of the ones I know are miserable and disabled, and it's somewhat unclear if they need the narcotics because they have a disabling condition, or if they have a disabling condition because they need an easy way to get their drugs.

Of course, we may have a different definition for "perfectly functional". The ones I know aren't sticking up Walgreeens as long as they can get their scripts.
2012-11-30 05:57:55 PM  
1 votes:

StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.

Yeah, I have to get a monthly script that could also land my doctor in trouble if I was doctor shopping. So I had to provide all kinds of documentation and answer a barrage of questions (including about all past medications which I took and why they weren't effective, when I had been first diagnosed, every doctor I had since the diagnosis and what I had been prescribed by each of them and how much, what I was doing in regards to my behavior that could possibly limit the amount I would need to take) before he wrote a script.

I wouldn't expect any less from him, and if I couldn't answer his questions (with documentation from my previous doctor) he probably wouldn't have given me a script that first visit, as was his right - and I would have understood that. Hell, sucks for me, but I completely understand why.

It sucks if you don't have the time to see patients all that long or develop a relationship with them, but damn, if the ...


The drug seekers are very good at their game. Doctors get fooled from time to time. As a dentist, patients come in all the time with complaints of toothaches. My regular patients are fine. They're never the problem. It's usually the one-time emergency patients that are the issue. With these patients, you can usually weed out the people truly in need of help vs. the drug seekers. A person states they have pain on a particular tooth, you look at it and see the obvious reason for the pain (decay, tooth fracture, etc). Unfortunately, I'm not perfect and I can get fooled. People lie on their health history form. You sit down and talk with the patient. They give you all the right buzzwords and symptoms. Unfortunately, dentistry (like other professions) isn't so cut and dry. Luckily, in my field, it's usually enough pain meds for a day or two and a referral to a specialist.

I do have all the proper documentation to support my reasons for writing a prescription. I just hate getting that phone call with the pharmacist stating, "You know, Joe Blow has three other prescriptions for Vicodin already". I don't like being fooled. I'm not saying this is a regular occurrence, maybe once a year, if that.

Am I in danger of losing my license for writing a prescription? Probably not. However, there has been a crackdown on narcotics prescriptions and no doctor wants any attention on them. I need my DEA license to practice properly and manage post-op pain from certain procedures. I'd like to keep that license free and clear of any problems.
/I would hate to be a pain management specialist.
//They have it rough.
2012-11-30 05:52:15 PM  
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: It depends on whether you have a realistic definition of failure. I don't think there's any doubt that if pain pills were 50 cents a pop on every street corner that far more high school kids would be strung out on narcotics. Just because it hasn't eliminated a problem doesn't mean it hasn't helped. We still have murders, that doesn't mean laws against murder are a "failure".


Please cite sources that even begin to suggest this would happen. In every country where drugs have been wholesale legalised not only has their been a dramatic reduction in drug related crime (muggings to fund a fix type not just dealing) but also in consumption; Portugal had a major problem when it legalised everything... the rehab programs couldn't take that many people hitting them at once.

The American 'War on Drugs' is working as well as your 'War on Alcohol' did in the 20's... I mean that one worked out really well for ya and I'm glad to see that America as a country does not consume a single drop of... ohh... wait....

Prohibition doesn't work, it sends the wrong message to the wrong people. It tells them that this is risky and dangerous (even if it isn't actually dangerous or risky). Legalising drugs makes them boring.

Besides which the little war you lot have been fighting is tearing apart several South American countries; Mexico being one of them.
2012-11-30 05:08:55 PM  
1 votes:

DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.


Yeah, I have to get a monthly script that could also land my doctor in trouble if I was doctor shopping. So I had to provide all kinds of documentation and answer a barrage of questions (including about all past medications which I took and why they weren't effective, when I had been first diagnosed, every doctor I had since the diagnosis and what I had been prescribed by each of them and how much, what I was doing in regards to my behavior that could possibly limit the amount I would need to take) before he wrote a script.

I wouldn't expect any less from him, and if I couldn't answer his questions (with documentation from my previous doctor) he probably wouldn't have given me a script that first visit, as was his right - and I would have understood that. Hell, sucks for me, but I completely understand why.

It sucks if you don't have the time to see patients all that long or develop a relationship with them, but damn, if they're coming in asking for Percocet and you don't have a history of treating that patient? Why would you write it (unless you're in an urgent care / ER setting where you don't have access to patient history)? If you do your due diligence as a doctor, how can you be held liable?

Hell, I have still undiagnosed random bouts of incredibly intense pain (undiagnosed after a ER visit, CAT, Ultrasound, two specialists, and X-Ray, and two doctors later - it's not killing me yet (I hope) and I can't afford any more "we don't know what it is that literally floored you from pain"). My past doctor gave me a Vicodin script that I would take as needed (wasn't often, but when it was bad it was really bad), current doctor wants me to keep a detailed log of certain activities so he can rule out other causes without breaking out more procedures or hitting me up with pain meds. If I was a junkie I somewhat doubt I'd have the patience to do that.

/honest questions
//and just because heroin is on the streets doesn't mean people aren't going to be taking pills whenever they can source them
2012-11-30 04:37:11 PM  
1 votes:

shroomgirl34: If you honestly have bad joint pain, this is the best non-narcotic remedy you could possibly find Link My girlfriend who has pretty bad chronic back pain says it takes the pain away better than oxy, my grandma uses it for her neck pain instead of percocet, I have been using it with like 2 aspirin for my knees. Only bad thing is it's only available to medical marijuana patients in Colorado.

Dammit man!! I was all happy til I read that last line


You may honestly want to get checked out for ankylosing spondylitis, particularly if you started hurting in your late teens/early 20s, or if you feel better when you're active instead of sedentary. It usually takes 7-10 years to get diagnosed properly due to poor diagnostic procedures, which sounds like something you've been through.

It's a son of a biatch, but it can be managed once you know what you're dealing with.
2012-11-30 04:34:54 PM  
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: Mazzic518: you can get antibiotics OTC at pretty much any pet store

Then they aren't the regulated antibiotics I was asking about, are they? ;-)


Yes they are
2012-11-30 04:22:14 PM  
1 votes:

Jon iz teh kewl: Tenatra: Jon iz teh kewl: an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.

i used to drink about 3-6 beers every night to fall asleep. i quit like 11 months later and had no withdrawal symptoms


oh lawd, you drank six beers from presumably 6 o'clock in the afternoon until 11 o'clock at night? you must be hard. like, totally i bet you were a drinking professional.

/sarcasm out of batteries.
2012-11-30 03:05:30 PM  
1 votes:

DrBreRuthlessVillain: Minimal snark intended here, but if you're able to say that legalizing everything would be "socially disastrous," then you must have a special ability to see the future that the rest of us--even on the "legalize everything" side of the argument--lack. If I had that ability I'd be busy picking lottery numbers and enjoying the winnings instead of wasting the workday on Fark, but I digress


Um...........okay.


DrBreRuthlessVillain: The point of legalizing everything, at least for me, is a matter of principle. Would legalization be a "disaster" for society? I don't pretend to know that with any real certainty, but what I do know is that a society that tolerates laws that make contraband out of certain substances is, in effect, an open air prison colony.


Okay, so what about other drugs? Say antibiotics - where we know overuse has very undesirable and serious effects on society as a whole (bacterial resistance). Do you want to have a free for all on ALL drugs? Or just the fun ones? Honest question.

Another complication is that we seem to expect the government to protect us when it comes to "big corporations" selling us unsafe products. Oh noe, this product had a bad side effect, sue sue sue! BUT.... then we expect the government to completely deregulate things which we already know for a fact often have bad effects on people. Which is it? This seems to me like a complete 100% contradiction.

Should corporations be able to market anything, even useless stuff, poorly made stuff, known dangerous stuff? Again, this is an honest question. If we allow companies to all out market products known to be unsafe or kill you, then so be it. But that floodgate is open. I don't think you can say "only unsafe fun drugs should be deregulated, but other bad corporate things stay regulated by the government"

/ps. try a little harder on minimizing the snark. Additional side stories about lottery tickets will probably cause me to dismiss you as a nutjob.cause me
2012-11-30 02:58:43 PM  
1 votes:

Noticeably F.A.T.: itazurakko: /happily back to being able to manage just with cheap generic ibuprofen from the supermarket

This stuff is the shiat for pain. It doesn't last quite as long as the pills, but it kicks in faster than anything else and will take the edge off damn near anything. I use it pretty much exclusively now, pretty much all my pains come and go throughout the day (well, my back and knees are constant, but low enough I don't need to constantly medicate) so I don't need anything that will last more than four hours or so at a pop.


Hm. I'll definitely have to give it a try - for me when I have pain too it's pretty localized in time, and usually I'm wanting something to make it bearable to do (or, start) the therapy exercises I do which actually make the rest of the day good.

Cyno01: The Pharmacist was telling me it doesnt count me sleeping, but that acetaminophen is the leading cause of liver failure nowadays, even more than alcohol.


Interesting. I suspect people who are abusing opiate painkillers probably aren't caring so much about the "see, we put the consequence in it!" bit by the time they get well and truly hooked, so probably contributing to that total...
2012-11-30 01:39:36 PM  
1 votes:
"There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE,

FOR farkS SAKE, LEGALIZE WEED THEN.

Theres just a level of infinite cognitive dissonance required to make a statement like that and still be a part of the war on drugs.

"Well sure, once weve eliminated every other drug, people will be reduced to shooting krokodil and huffing gasoline, theyll all die and the war on drugs will be won, its as easy as that!"

/thats the beautiful part, come winter the gorillas just freeze to death
2012-11-30 01:18:04 PM  
1 votes:

shroomgirl34: DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.

In all seriousness, what should those of us in real constant pain do? I was diagnosed with one of those made up diseases (first they said lupus then Grave's disease then rheumatoid arthritis then fibromyalgia then settled on scleroderma pfft whatever) so the doctors they kept sending me to "specialist" all wanted to put me on all this horrific medicine that would potentially make me blind or suicidal or have liver failure or you know, DIE. And by refusing to take any of that crap they say they can't treat me because I am an unwilling patient. WHATEVER ... all I want is something to make the pain go away so I can work. Mostly it is ok with OTC stuff but a half a hydro and getting to sleep makes a big difference when you are working seven 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time. Now it's so bad I have been escorted out simply for mentioning "joint pain". That's all it took, appointment over, we don't waste our time on pain patients. Sigh... So f ...


If you honestly have bad joint pain, this is the best non-narcotic remedy you could possibly find Link My girlfriend who has pretty bad chronic back pain says it takes the pain away better than oxy, my grandma uses it for her neck pain instead of percocet, I have been using it with like 2 aspirin for my knees. Only bad thing is it's only available to medical marijuana patients in Colorado.

As for the use of Oxy, it can be (ab?)used responsibly. I buy like 2-3 pills a month, it's not addictive because it sucks a lot. I realize that I am in a very small minority of people who could do that and not have the desire to be on them all the time (probably has something to do with actually seeing people in sever opioid withdrawal, it's pretty farking ugly). One of the less talked about things in Obamacare is it provides much greater access to addicts seeking treatment. I'm hoping that it can help those people, because a lot of them don't want to have to take a pill everyday, they just have too.
2012-11-30 12:52:38 PM  
1 votes:

distopianDream: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

Ha, I know a "Christian" woman that's always on pain meds for one of her many ailments. In her case though I think it's because she wants attention for the ailments not the high. I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.


Sounds like my brothers MIL. she won't allow alcohol on her house cause drinking is a sin, but keeps a pharmacology book on her kitchen counter to make sure all the pills she takes won't interact.

Valium with her coffee every morning.
2012-11-30 12:18:26 PM  
1 votes:

distopianDream: I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.


$
2012-11-30 12:15:51 PM  
1 votes:

bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.


Ha, I know a "Christian" woman that's always on pain meds for one of her many ailments. In her case though I think it's because she wants attention for the ailments not the high. I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.
2012-11-30 11:48:45 AM  
1 votes:

bim1154: cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.

Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator


There's simply no way this can be true. A drug user will seek out the high, sure, but they won't pay 5x what they could be paying just so they can have 1 tab of Oxy versus a half gram of heroin. The supply of the pills is still greater than the heroin, even with the restrictions.

I'd believe $100/g for pure oxycodone, but I don't know where you'd find that. Anyone paying $80-$100 for a single pill of ANYTHING is either retarded, or a high school student.
2012-11-30 11:43:29 AM  
1 votes:

cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.


Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator
2012-11-30 11:37:43 AM  
1 votes:

doczoidberg: Why not just let people have whatever pills they want?

I'm serious.


...........................Nut even sure how to respond
2012-11-30 11:36:38 AM  
1 votes:
"There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE, which handles drug investigations in 29 eastern Kentucky counties where pain pill abuse had been rampant. "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

And herein lies the problem. Not only can you not 'win' the war on drugs, even when you make progress (cut off the supply of pills), it makes absolutely no difference.
2012-11-30 11:34:12 AM  
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.


But politicians need the votes of middle-aged men that wear suits and have lots of money and 'investments'; also those senile old people.

/visiting my Father-In-Law this weekend - He'll launch into one of his tirades about 'kids that take drugs' again, even though himself he takes enough goddamn pills to rattle.  Hypocrite.
2012-11-30 11:24:25 AM  
1 votes:

Dreyelle: FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?


Heh. farking opiates, how do they work?
2012-11-30 11:23:14 AM  
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?


It depends on whether you have a realistic definition of failure. I don't think there's any doubt that if pain pills were 50 cents a pop on every street corner that far more high school kids would be strung out on narcotics. Just because it hasn't eliminated a problem doesn't mean it hasn't helped. We still have murders, that doesn't mean laws against murder are a "failure".
2012-11-30 11:20:22 AM  
1 votes:
FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?
2012-11-30 11:18:42 AM  
1 votes:
Dope is for dopes.

conhomeusa.typepad.com

We're all stars now in the dope show.
2012-11-30 11:18:35 AM  
1 votes:
FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.
2012-11-30 11:15:45 AM  
1 votes:
news.brown.edu
2012-11-30 11:14:44 AM  
1 votes:

sigdiamond2000: FirstNationalBastard: sigdiamond2000: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

[ferdyonfilms.com image 434x231]

Cop Rock wasn't a failure, it was just 20 years ahead of its time.

Hmm. I never thought about it that way.


I still think if Cop Rock had been resurrected in the period right after Glee came along, it would have been a hit.
2012-11-30 11:14:04 AM  
1 votes:
comicbooked.comicbookedllc.netdna-cdn.com
2012-11-30 10:57:08 AM  
1 votes:

sigdiamond2000: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history? 

[ferdyonfilms.com image 434x231]


Cop Rock wasn't a failure, it was just 20 years ahead of its time.
 
Displayed 59 of 59 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report