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(Lexington Herald Leader)   Thanks to the War On Pain Pills, now real hillbillies are using real heroin   (kentucky.com) divider line 217
    More: Ironic, Kentucky, Kentucky State Police, heroin, Ohio River, White House Office, oxycodone, Appalachia  
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8692 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2012 at 11:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-30 10:31:43 AM
Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.
 
2012-11-30 10:43:05 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.


Since when?
 
2012-11-30 10:43:34 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.


The drug war hasn't killed quite as many Americans as the civil war, but it's probably cost more and destroyed nearly as many families.
 
2012-11-30 10:45:37 AM
This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.
 
2012-11-30 10:51:33 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

 

ferdyonfilms.com
 
2012-11-30 10:57:08 AM

sigdiamond2000: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history? 

[ferdyonfilms.com image 434x231]


Cop Rock wasn't a failure, it was just 20 years ahead of its time.
 
2012-11-30 10:57:09 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.


Indeed. It is widely reported that you can get booze and pretty much any drug you want in prison. At an inflated price that reflects the risks involved, of course, but still. If you can get anything you want in that restrictive environment, you're a fool if you think you're ever going to stop people from getting the drugs they want.

My solution: Treat substance abuse as a public health issue rather than a criminal one.

My not so CSB: In our sleepy little town, within a year there were two fatal overdoses. They had been taking oxycodone patches (time-release, like nicotine patches), slicing them open and chewing on whatever was inside. They might as well have been doing heroin.
 
2012-11-30 11:13:15 AM

FirstNationalBastard: sigdiamond2000: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

[ferdyonfilms.com image 434x231]

Cop Rock wasn't a failure, it was just 20 years ahead of its time.


Hmm. I never thought about it that way.
 
2012-11-30 11:13:38 AM
Why not just let people have whatever pills they want?

I'm serious.
 
2012-11-30 11:14:04 AM
comicbooked.comicbookedllc.netdna-cdn.com
 
2012-11-30 11:14:44 AM

sigdiamond2000: FirstNationalBastard: sigdiamond2000: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

[ferdyonfilms.com image 434x231]

Cop Rock wasn't a failure, it was just 20 years ahead of its time.

Hmm. I never thought about it that way.


I still think if Cop Rock had been resurrected in the period right after Glee came along, it would have been a hit.
 
2012-11-30 11:15:45 AM
news.brown.edu
 
2012-11-30 11:15:57 AM
Ain't nuthing illegal until you get caught. - Tickle
 
2012-11-30 11:16:05 AM
What is WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!?
METH AIN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YA?!!?!
 
2012-11-30 11:16:06 AM
I heard a rumor once that marijuana can assist with pain relief.

I don't believe it though. If that were true, it'd have been considered as a viable option.
 
2012-11-30 11:16:27 AM
Stepping on up from meth and moonshine?
 
2012-11-30 11:18:35 AM
FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.
 
2012-11-30 11:18:40 AM
We prefer the term "Appalachian American"
 
2012-11-30 11:18:42 AM
Dope is for dopes.

conhomeusa.typepad.com

We're all stars now in the dope show.
 
2012-11-30 11:19:24 AM
As God intended.
 
2012-11-30 11:19:52 AM
I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.
 
2012-11-30 11:20:22 AM
FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?
 
2012-11-30 11:20:40 AM
now that is what i call winning the drug war. I bet those police are slapping each other on the back and telling each other what a great job they are doing. nothing beats a heroin addict.
 
2012-11-30 11:21:33 AM
"We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?" Mark said.

Pay attention! They just said it.


is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.
 
2012-11-30 11:23:11 AM
Darwin is busy in the sleepy hollows. If someone decides not to live their life but to stay in a dream world we should make it easy for them. That way they can OD before they reproduce
 
2012-11-30 11:23:14 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?


It depends on whether you have a realistic definition of failure. I don't think there's any doubt that if pain pills were 50 cents a pop on every street corner that far more high school kids would be strung out on narcotics. Just because it hasn't eliminated a problem doesn't mean it hasn't helped. We still have murders, that doesn't mean laws against murder are a "failure".
 
2012-11-30 11:24:25 AM

Dreyelle: FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?


Heh. farking opiates, how do they work?
 
2012-11-30 11:26:35 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

It depends on whether you have a realistic definition of failure. I don't think there's any doubt that if pain pills were 50 cents a pop on every street corner that far more high school kids would be strung out on narcotics. Just because it hasn't eliminated a problem doesn't mean it hasn't helped. We still have murders, that doesn't mean laws against murder are a "failure".


However, locking up addicts and pretending that's going to solve the problem instead of trying to fix the underlying causes of the addiction that they're probably going to immediately go back to once they get out, especially since they just rotted in prison for essentially no good reason, because we either really like vengeance, or because Prison owners need to make money... that's failure.
 
2012-11-30 11:26:49 AM
Yet another reason why the "War on Drugs" will never succeed. The government ends up playing whack-a-mole.

Seriously, if we took the route of Portugal, and treated it as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue...we'd have more success.
 
2012-11-30 11:26:59 AM

Dreyelle: FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?


Maybe original-recipe Four Loko could have saved us from this scourge.
 
2012-11-30 11:27:31 AM

Lunaville: I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.


It's more of a need to self-medicate. Opiate addicts can be perfectly functional in society. It's the lack of a clean, cheap, and and reliable opium source that does all the damage.
 
2012-11-30 11:29:44 AM
"There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE, ... "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

I don't understand how officer Smoot can say this and not immediately conclude "therefore, the war on drugs is doomed to be a complete failure and waste of money."

The people who are going to take drugs are going to take drugs no matter what; we aren't going to convince them to stop. If you remove one drug, they will find another, and that new one might be worse. We really have to start treating drug addiction as a health issue, rather than a law enforcement issue. The drug war is costing us too much for no socially useful results.
 
2012-11-30 11:29:54 AM

Dirtybird971: "We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?" Mark said.

Pay attention! They just said it.

is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.


Or you can just grow your own poppies.

www.plant-and-flower-guide.com
 
2012-11-30 11:33:09 AM
I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.
 
2012-11-30 11:34:12 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.


But politicians need the votes of middle-aged men that wear suits and have lots of money and 'investments'; also those senile old people.

/visiting my Father-In-Law this weekend - He'll launch into one of his tirades about 'kids that take drugs' again, even though himself he takes enough goddamn pills to rattle.  Hypocrite.
 
2012-11-30 11:34:27 AM

DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.


The chewable ones, right? Those nearly killed my MIL and one SIL one night, and neither one said what they were on and were about to let each other die before the Dr.s figured it out.
 
2012-11-30 11:36:38 AM
"There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE, which handles drug investigations in 29 eastern Kentucky counties where pain pill abuse had been rampant. "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

And herein lies the problem. Not only can you not 'win' the war on drugs, even when you make progress (cut off the supply of pills), it makes absolutely no difference.
 
2012-11-30 11:37:43 AM

doczoidberg: Why not just let people have whatever pills they want?

I'm serious.


...........................Nut even sure how to respond
 
2012-11-30 11:40:35 AM
"In many cases, heroin, like pain pills dissolved in water, is being injected, snorted and smoked"

Nice sentence. Any editors working for this rag?
If pain pills were dissolved in water, they probably wouldn't snort or smoke too well.
Or maybe I'm wrong? Perhaps water is flammable with the dissolved drugs in it??
 
2012-11-30 11:42:06 AM

Fear the Clam


Smartest
Funniest

2012-11-30 11:29:54 AM

Dirtybird971: "We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?" Mark said.

Pay attention! They just said it.

is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.

Or you can just grow your own poppies.

www.plant-and-flower-guide.com


If only it was that easy.
 
2012-11-30 11:42:09 AM
It's a culling.
 
2012-11-30 11:42:15 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: We still have murders, that doesn't mean laws against murder are a "failure".



You might feel differently if the police were charging people with murder simply because they owned a gun, confiscating vehicles because the trunk vaguely smells of your dead pet you took to the vet last year, confiscating cash and making people prove the money was not earned from a murder contract, etc.

But in the war on drugs, police do these things every day.
 
2012-11-30 11:43:29 AM

cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.


Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator
 
2012-11-30 11:45:01 AM

FirstNationalBastard: However, locking up addicts and pretending that's going to solve the problem instead of trying to fix the underlying causes of the addiction that they're probably going to immediately go back to once they get out, especially since they just rotted in prison for essentially no good reason, because we either really like vengeance, or because Prison owners need to make money... that's failure.


I would agree we need more focus on treatment and social root causes. I do however disagree with the "legalize everything" crowd. I think that's naive and would be socially disastrous. Unfortunately, many people who repeat the "drug war is a failure" rhetoric fall into the latter category. If you had just made a comment about addiction treatment to start with, instead of a very soundbitish one liner about "failure" I probably would have just agreed with you.
 
2012-11-30 11:45:45 AM
FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100, heroin can cost as little as $15 to $20 for a hit that will give the user the same high for 24 hours, said Van Ingram, executive director for the Kentucky Office of Drug Control Policy.

Bullshiat.
 
2012-11-30 11:46:46 AM
where to start...

oh sweet opiates, that ought to slow down the meth production.

A Terrible Human: tricycleracer: Maybe original-recipe Four Loko could have saved us from this scourge.

That doesn't help when you live in a dry town that has fark all to do. Maybe if these little shiathole towns didn't try to kill people via boredom people wouldn't want to get high all the time.


have they tried religion? i am sure if you spend enough time digging around in the 'good book' you could find all kinds of rational for new and interdasting 'blue laws'

Lunaville: I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.


well they have access to alcohol and sleeping pills, so i don't see what the need is for all these illegal shenanigans
 
2012-11-30 11:48:45 AM

bim1154: cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.

Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator


There's simply no way this can be true. A drug user will seek out the high, sure, but they won't pay 5x what they could be paying just so they can have 1 tab of Oxy versus a half gram of heroin. The supply of the pills is still greater than the heroin, even with the restrictions.

I'd believe $100/g for pure oxycodone, but I don't know where you'd find that. Anyone paying $80-$100 for a single pill of ANYTHING is either retarded, or a high school student.
 
2012-11-30 11:49:07 AM

Evil Mackerel: It's a culling.


RIP Edward Cullen
 
2012-11-30 11:49:40 AM

R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.


I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.
 
2012-11-30 11:49:42 AM

slayer199: Yet another reason why the "War on Drugs" will never succeed. The government ends up playing whack-a-mole.

Seriously, if we took the route of Portugal, and treated it as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue...we'd have more success.


Yeah, but Portugal has less of a puritan epidemic than does the US. The War on (Some) Drugs won't stop--like so many other wrong-headed, anti-freedom policies--until the system bankrupts itself. The shiatbags who advocate for these church laws have religious conviction on their side, and are thus unencumbered by issues related to conscience when confronted by the damage their laws cause. Godliness through legislation FTW.
 
2012-11-30 11:52:33 AM
Good, it's a lot better for you.
 
2012-11-30 11:53:06 AM

grinding_journalist: bim1154: cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.

Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator

There's simply no way this can be true. A drug user will seek out the high, sure, but they won't pay 5x what they could be paying just so they can have 1 tab of Oxy versus a half gram of heroin. The supply of the pills is still greater than the heroin, even with the restrictions.

I'd believe $100/g for pure oxycodone, but I don't know where you'd find that. Anyone paying $80-$100 for a single pill of ANYTHING is either retarded, or a high school student.


I have to agree with you. To be honest, in my day a bag of weed (ounce) cost 15 - 20 bucks. 25 and you were getting premo shiat. I have no clue what any of that stuff goes for these days but those numbers stated above.... I find sort of fishy.
 
2012-11-30 11:55:28 AM
I'm not at all surprised.
 
2012-11-30 11:56:16 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?


It's not a failure - the gov't profiting from the drug trade has been quite successful.

This isn't a "war on drugs," it's a "war on anyone else making money off drugs."
 
2012-11-30 11:56:31 AM

Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.


My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.
 
2012-11-30 11:57:49 AM

grinding_journalist: There's simply no way this can be true. A drug user will seek out the high, sure, but they won't pay 5x what they could be paying just so they can have 1 tab of Oxy versus a half gram of heroin. The supply of the pills is still greater than the heroin, even with the restrictions.


Yes, they will if it feels semi-legal and socially acceptable. Doctor shopping for pills is something many stay at home middle class soap opera watching mom's will do because it is socially acceptable. They wouldn't stand on a street corner at 3am trying to score smack, even if it costs 1/5 as much.
 
2012-11-30 11:58:30 AM

bim1154: grinding_journalist: bim1154: cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.

Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator

There's simply no way this can be true. A drug user will seek out the high, sure, but they won't pay 5x what they could be paying just so they can have 1 tab of Oxy versus a half gram of heroin. The supply of the pills is still greater than the heroin, even with the restrictions.

I'd believe $100/g for pure oxycodone, but I don't know where you'd find that. Anyone paying $80-$100 for a single pill of ANYTHING is either retarded, or a high school student.

I have to agree with you. To be honest, in my day a bag of weed (ounce) cost 15 - 20 bucks. 25 and you were getting premo shiat. I have no clue what any of that stuff goes for these days but those numbers stated above.... I find sort of fishy.


excuse me sir or madam, but when did weed stop being sold in 'lids'? i hear this reference sometimes in old cheech and chong movies, but it seems to have died out. do you happen to know the origin or meaning of the term?

/yes, i have googled it before, just looking for farker feedback instead of random internet static
 
2012-11-30 11:58:45 AM

Dreyelle: FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?



No, with Jesus and sweetened iced tea.
 
2012-11-30 12:00:41 PM

bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.


I have a few cousins hooked on pain pills, too. It's really sad...both of their lives have essentially fallen apart because of it. Neither have held down a job in years and live only to acquire, sell, and take their pills. You can't trust them in your house...they'd steal off their own mother (and have on several occasions).
 
2012-11-30 12:01:30 PM

Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.


Freakish. I've had the opposite experience.

I've been in to see the Doc twice in the past two years and each time I've walked away with a prescription for Oxycodone. The amount they give me us just ludicrous; a weeks supply for something that will likely start to abate due to treatment in 24 hours or so.

They just can't seem to give me enough of it.

I'm reluctant to take it. Both times I took one dose because I wouldn't be able to sleep with the pain being as bad as it was and then that was it. A few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).
 
2012-11-30 12:02:44 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

I mean, even the Confederacy realized they had lost and surrendered.

Since when?


While I am certainly no Confederate apologist, it actually notable, from a historical perspective of similar uprisings, that Confederate insurrectionists aren't blowing up buses in Knoxville every other week.

Lincoln, Grant, Lee, and Sherman deserve some credit with regard to the manner in which the U.S. Civil war was ended. While Southerners can certainly be irritating, it stands out in history that there wasn't an organized guerrilla resistance following the war on the scale of an IRA or Hamas.

Just a little perspective.
 
2012-11-30 12:04:57 PM

bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.


We might just be related.
 
2012-11-30 12:06:06 PM

grinding_journalist: There's simply no way this can be true.


BTW - it's true for several drugs besides just pain pills. People will pay way more for xanax and adderal than a shot of heroin too, so long as it's in a clean pharmaceutical package they can pop at work instead of a needle that they need to cook up and stick in their arm.
 
2012-11-30 12:10:23 PM
www.newvideo.com

Needs to update her business model.
 
2012-11-30 12:10:27 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre:

BTW - it's true for several drugs besides just pain pills. People will pay way more for xanax and adderal than a shot of heroin too, so long as it's in a clean pharmaceutical package they can pop at work instead of a needle that they need to cook up and stick in their arm.


Yep. People will pay more to avoid stigma.
 
2012-11-30 12:10:56 PM

THX 1138: I heard a rumor once that marijuana can assist with pain relief.

I don't believe it though. If that were true, it'd have been considered as a viable option.


An MS patient with chronic pain swears by it.
 
2012-11-30 12:11:58 PM

FirstNationalBastard: ThrobblefootSpectre: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

It depends on whether you have a realistic definition of failure. I don't think there's any doubt that if pain pills were 50 cents a pop on every street corner that far more high school kids would be strung out on narcotics. Just because it hasn't eliminated a problem doesn't mean it hasn't helped. We still have murders, that doesn't mean laws against murder are a "failure".

However, locking up addicts and pretending that's going to solve the problem instead of trying to fix the underlying causes of the addiction that they're probably going to immediately go back to once they get out, especially since they just rotted in prison for essentially no good reason, because we either really like vengeance, or because Prison owners need to make money... that's failure.


Splat thinks you might be onto something.
 
2012-11-30 12:13:17 PM

divgradcurl: bim1154: grinding_journalist: bim1154: cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.

Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator

There's simply no way this can be true. A drug user will seek out the high, sure, but they won't pay 5x what they could be paying just so they can have 1 tab of Oxy versus a half gram of heroin. The supply of the pills is still greater than the heroin, even with the restrictions.

I'd believe $100/g for pure oxycodone, but I don't know where you'd find that. Anyone paying $80-$100 for a single pill of ANYTHING is either retarded, or a high school student.

I have to agree with you. To be honest, in my day a bag of weed (ounce) cost 15 - 20 bucks. 25 and you were getting premo shiat. I have no clue what any of that stuff goes for these days but those numbers stated above.... I find sort of fishy.

excuse me sir or madam, but when did weed stop being sold in 'lids'? i hear this reference sometimes in old cheech and chong movies, but it seems to have died out. do you happen to know the origin or meaning of the term?

/yes, i have googled it before, just looking for farker feedback instead of random internet static


From what I have heard it was enough to cover the lid of a coffee canister. I guess there were not cheap scales back then.
 
2012-11-30 12:15:51 PM

bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.


Ha, I know a "Christian" woman that's always on pain meds for one of her many ailments. In her case though I think it's because she wants attention for the ailments not the high. I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.
 
2012-11-30 12:18:01 PM

Skarekrough:
I've been in to see the Doc twice in the past two years and each time I've walked away with a prescription for Oxycodone. The amount they give me us just ludicrous; a weeks supply for something that will likely start to abate due to treatment in 24 hours or so.

They just can't seem to give me enough of it.

I'm reluctant to take it. Both times I took one dose because I wouldn't be able to sleep with the pain being as bad as it was and then that was it. A few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).


i269.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-30 12:18:26 PM

distopianDream: I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.


$
 
2012-11-30 12:19:27 PM
I was just thinking about seeing my Dr. for some pain pills. Then I remembered that I don't take them because I like them too much.

/bruised rib
 
2012-11-30 12:20:58 PM

divgradcurl: bim1154: grinding_journalist: bim1154: cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.

Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator

There's simply no way this can be true. A drug user will seek out the high, sure, but they won't pay 5x what they could be paying just so they can have 1 tab of Oxy versus a half gram of heroin. The supply of the pills is still greater than the heroin, even with the restrictions.

I'd believe $100/g for pure oxycodone, but I don't know where you'd find that. Anyone paying $80-$100 for a single pill of ANYTHING is either retarded, or a high school student.

I have to agree with you. To be honest, in my day a bag of weed (ounce) cost 15 - 20 bucks. 25 and you were getting premo shiat. I have no clue what any of that stuff goes for these days but those numbers stated above.... I find sort of fishy.

excuse me sir or madam, but when did weed stop being sold in 'lids'? i hear this reference sometimes in old cheech and chong movies, but it seems to have died out. do you happen to know the origin or meaning of the term?

/yes, i have googled it before, just looking for farker feedback instead of random internet static


We called them lids back in the day. My "heyday" was the early to late 70s. I only used the word "ounce" above in case the word "lid" was outdated. I don't know where the term came from. In the late 60s, early 70s it was usually sold by "matchbox" for 5 bucks or "lid" for 15 - 20.
 
2012-11-30 12:21:17 PM
FT: "We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?'"

Ermahgerd! Herrerin!
 
2012-11-30 12:21:35 PM

cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.

 
2012-11-30 12:21:55 PM

BigLuca: Skarekrough:
I've been in to see the Doc twice in the past two years and each time I've walked away with a prescription for Oxycodone. The amount they give me us just ludicrous; a weeks supply for something that will likely start to abate due to treatment in 24 hours or so.

They just can't seem to give me enough of it.

I'm reluctant to take it. Both times I took one dose because I wouldn't be able to sleep with the pain being as bad as it was and then that was it. A few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).

[i269.photobucket.com image 831x456]


Yeah. My Dr. thoroughly believes I should have a bottle of Vicodin around the house just in case my torn rotator cuff, my shredded knees, or my diskless L5 act up. I use about 20 a year. That amount wouldn't last a week with my in-laws.
 
2012-11-30 12:22:45 PM

divgradcurl: bim1154: grinding_journalist: bim1154: cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.

Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator

There's simply no way this can be true. A drug user will seek out the high, sure, but they won't pay 5x what they could be paying just so they can have 1 tab of Oxy versus a half gram of heroin. The supply of the pills is still greater than the heroin, even with the restrictions.

I'd believe $100/g for pure oxycodone, but I don't know where you'd find that. Anyone paying $80-$100 for a single pill of ANYTHING is either retarded, or a high school student.

I have to agree with you. To be honest, in my day a bag of weed (ounce) cost 15 - 20 bucks. 25 and you were getting premo shiat. I have no clue what any of that stuff goes for these days but those numbers stated above.... I find sort of fishy.

excuse me sir or madam, but when did weed stop being sold in 'lids'? i hear this reference sometimes in old cheech and chong movies, but it seems to have died out. do you happen to know the origin or meaning of the term?

/yes, i have googled it before, just looking for farker feedback instead of random internet static


Prince Albert can would hold one ounce, the lid 1/8th. Now you know.
 
2012-11-30 12:25:11 PM

DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.


So, how is your war going?
 
2012-11-30 12:25:15 PM
 
2012-11-30 12:26:26 PM

Fear the Clam: Or you can just grow your own poppies.


I wonder if any addict actually ever tried this. And for that matter, at what point does it become illegal? I've seen the seeds for sale (which doesn't demonstrate them to be legal, but suggests they must be), are they even legal to grow as ornamental? Does the point at which you break the law start when they are harvested or scraped or however you get the goo?

Not going to do it, just curious.
 
2012-11-30 12:26:33 PM
majestic: thank you also
 
2012-11-30 12:27:21 PM

R.A.Danny: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

We might just be related.


I know my doctor on a personal level as well. It would probably be fairly easy for me to get some good stuff on occasion, but I am fully aware that I have what I call an "addiction gene". I have some pretty good aches and pains from my bull riding days, but to date I have avoided everything stronger than 500mg naproxen and that shiat seizes me up if I take more than 2 a day for 2 consecutive days, so I don't.
 
2012-11-30 12:27:48 PM

Skarekrough: few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).


When my stepfather died, I found his stash of pain pills. I disposed of them because 1.) I have a young child 2.) I like them too much; it would be too tempting. and 3.) I did not want to do a felony. Still, I cried as I was dumping them.
 
2012-11-30 12:29:05 PM

bim1154: I know my doctor on a personal level as well. It would probably be fairly easy for me to get some good stuff on occasion, but I am fully aware that I have what I call an "addiction gene". I have some pretty good aches and pains from my bull riding days, but to date I have avoided everything stronger than 500mg naproxen and that shiat seizes me up if I take more than 2 a day for 2 consecutive days, so I don't.


I got lucky there I guess. I enjoy the good night's sleep and lack of pain, but I never craved one.
 
2012-11-30 12:30:09 PM

DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.


Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.
 
2012-11-30 12:31:08 PM
blog.zap2it.com
In unrelated news, Justified comes back in January!
 
2012-11-30 12:33:23 PM

DrBreRuthlessVillain: slayer199: Yet another reason why the "War on Drugs" will never succeed. The government ends up playing whack-a-mole.

Seriously, if we took the route of Portugal, and treated it as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue...we'd have more success.

Yeah, but Portugal has less of a puritan epidemic than does the US. The War on (Some) Drugs won't stop--like so many other wrong-headed, anti-freedom policies--until the system bankrupts itself. The shiatbags who advocate for these church laws have religious conviction on their side, and are thus unencumbered by issues related to conscience when confronted by the damage their laws cause. Godliness through legislation FTW.


I actually think that's a red herring to garner Republican support. Lawmakers are making money and that's their primary goal. This isn't morality based decision making so they need blind allegiance and draping it in religion gains the support of a rather large uneducated base.

There's a reason why Christianity is used to justify a lot of unrelated nonsense. Merely invoking the name automatically translates to social support in large groups.
 
2012-11-30 12:38:21 PM

Skarekrough: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

Freakish. I've had the opposite experience.

I've been in to see the Doc twice in the past two years and each time I've walked away with a prescription for Oxycodone. The amount they give me us just ludicrous; a weeks supply for something that will likely start to abate due to treatment in 24 hours or so.

They just can't seem to give me enough of it.

I'm reluctant to take it. Both times I took one dose because I wouldn't be able to sleep with the pain being as bad as it was and then that was it. A few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).


The medical facility on my college campus routinely handed out Vicodin to cope with headaches and aches from the flu. In fact, a physician made a side business selling the pills to non-patients and non-students. During the investigation, he was allowed to continue practicing. The college allocated legal protection and he continues to work as a prescribing physician today.
 
2012-11-30 12:40:47 PM
Underlying problem? The underlying problem is that people can't cope. Whether they have a mental illness, need instant gratification or are a spoiled farking arsehole...they can't cope. Can't handle your problems or what happens in life? Pop a pill. Load a needle. And guess what? Society in a general sense has taught them this is the answer when they were a kid/teen. Kid acting out? Getting in trouble? Doc writes a script or five. Problem (never) solved. Rinse. Repeat. Have a (short) nice life!
 
2012-11-30 12:43:34 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.


Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.
 
2012-11-30 12:44:48 PM
If you look far enough back, this situation is very ironic. Think: Opium Wars
 
2012-11-30 12:45:04 PM

Ghengis_Socrates: Skarekrough: few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).

When my stepfather died, I found his stash of pain pills. I disposed of them because 1.) I have a young child 2.) I like them too much; it would be too tempting. and 3.) I did not want to do a felony. Still, I cried as I was dumping them.


See, that doesn't bother me.

Like I said....the gold standard was set when I was in the hospital. It bothers me as much as dumping a can of warm Bud Light.
 
2012-11-30 12:45:24 PM
Meh, pain pills aren't candy, subbs. I've seen many a person turn their life into shiat because they liked them so much. In this case, I blame the addict for being dumb enough to make the switch.

/it's not like most people have never heard of the addicting properties of opiates
//some just didn't listen
 
2012-11-30 12:45:36 PM

nekom: Fear the Clam: Or you can just grow your own poppies.

I wonder if any addict actually ever tried this. And for that matter, at what point does it become illegal? I've seen the seeds for sale (which doesn't demonstrate them to be legal, but suggests they must be), are they even legal to grow as ornamental? Does the point at which you break the law start when they are harvested or scraped or however you get the goo?

Not going to do it, just curious.


I think once you score the side of the poppy pod to cause the flower to protect itself by oozing that sweet sweet goo, it's illegal.
 
2012-11-30 12:45:42 PM

BigLuca: Skarekrough:
I've been in to see the Doc twice in the past two years and each time I've walked away with a prescription for Oxycodone. The amount they give me us just ludicrous; a weeks supply for something that will likely start to abate due to treatment in 24 hours or so.

They just can't seem to give me enough of it.

I'm reluctant to take it. Both times I took one dose because I wouldn't be able to sleep with the pain being as bad as it was and then that was it. A few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).

[i269.photobucket.com image 831x456]


Heh...yeah....I get it.

But about ten years ago I was laid up in the hospital for a few days after surgery and they gave me morphine.

It was awesome. It set the gold-standard for enjoying narcotics.

The stuff I get prescribed doesn't hold a candle compared to that experience. As a result it's not worth it. And with a 3 and 7-year old around the house, and their friends, it's not worth the risk. I have enough trouble keeping them out of my guitars.
 
2012-11-30 12:46:14 PM

nekom: My solution: Treat substance abuse as a public health issue rather than a criminal one.


My solution: Hancuff them to cots bolted to the floor. Give them water and bread. And when they've been clean for 3 months, they can leave jail.
If you catch them using agian, repeat. No coddle drugs. Just cold turket.
fark them. they bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting in to.
Fark junkies all right to hell.
 
2012-11-30 12:46:32 PM
So Big Pharma gets people hooked on drugs. People start doing crazy things because drugs are tearing their lives apart. Big Pharma denies responsibility, stops selling the drug. People start doing even crazier things and shift to illegal drugs. (which just happen to be available now).

/ Big Pharma never goes to jail.
// Big Pharma never gives back the money.
/// But corporations are people too my friends!
 
2012-11-30 12:50:08 PM
dummidumbwit.files.wordpress.com

It's my life, and it's my wife.
 
2012-11-30 12:51:12 PM
I must be wired differently than most people. I've had morphine in the ER, and it was OK. As in it worked on the pain, but it didn't take me to my happy place. Vicodin and Percoset are pretty much the same way. But Tramadol/Ultram, the stuff that supposed to be less addictive -- whooooweeeee. I like that stuff way too much. I took it for 6 weeks when I wrenched my back, and it was physically painful to stop taking it.

My problem now is that I can't take NSAIDS (prone to ulcers), so docs want to prescribe Tramadol when I have pain. I'd feel safer taking Vicodin.
 
2012-11-30 12:52:22 PM

DubyaHater: Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.


Yep, and now we have been put into the position to have "the talk" with that patient. That talk is seldom a nice quiet conversation. I hate being put in that position. We also have a way to look people up on the state narcotics bureau list. Insurance companies also send us letters about people.

/it's not always who you think it would be
//most time, you're not fooling anyone
///it's our license on the line, not yours.
 
2012-11-30 12:52:38 PM

distopianDream: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

Ha, I know a "Christian" woman that's always on pain meds for one of her many ailments. In her case though I think it's because she wants attention for the ailments not the high. I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.


Sounds like my brothers MIL. she won't allow alcohol on her house cause drinking is a sin, but keeps a pharmacology book on her kitchen counter to make sure all the pills she takes won't interact.

Valium with her coffee every morning.
 
2012-11-30 12:57:09 PM

mcreadyblue: distopianDream: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

Ha, I know a "Christian" woman that's always on pain meds for one of her many ailments. In her case though I think it's because she wants attention for the ailments not the high. I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.

Sounds like my brothers MIL. she won't allow alcohol on her house cause drinking is a sin, but keeps a pharmacology book on her kitchen counter to make sure all the pills she takes won't interact.

Valium with her coffee every morning.


I remember my grandmother and mother always had at least 3 flavors of valium in their little shoeboxes.
 
2012-11-30 12:57:18 PM
This article has reassured me that everyone involved in drug prohibition is either completely full of sh*t, or has suffered major brain damage.

"We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

If you're that stupid you should probably apply for disability benefits and some assisted-living before you drown in a glass of water.

heroin can cost as little as $15 to $20 for a hit that will give the user the same high for 24 hours

You can't just copy and paste your scaremongering drug "facts" interchangeably. Heroin isn't super-meth, a heroin high lasts a few hours.

So and so's kid died, chat with the medical examiner, same old media scare piece, stay vigilant citizens. We will win this drug war any day now.
 
2012-11-30 12:57:22 PM
For some reason I misread the headline as "War On Owls".
 
2012-11-30 01:04:50 PM

DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.


In all seriousness, what should those of us in real constant pain do? I was diagnosed with one of those made up diseases (first they said lupus then Grave's disease then rheumatoid arthritis then fibromyalgia then settled on scleroderma pfft whatever) so the doctors they kept sending me to "specialist" all wanted to put me on all this horrific medicine that would potentially make me blind or suicidal or have liver failure or you know, DIE. And by refusing to take any of that crap they say they can't treat me because I am an unwilling patient. WHATEVER ... all I want is something to make the pain go away so I can work. Mostly it is ok with OTC stuff but a half a hydro and getting to sleep makes a big difference when you are working seven 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time. Now it's so bad I have been escorted out simply for mentioning "joint pain". That's all it took, appointment over, we don't waste our time on pain patients. Sigh... So frustrating.
~~~~aaaaand back to lurking ha
 
2012-11-30 01:05:10 PM
"Heroin didn't show up in federal drug seizure statistics until 2006"

So what was DEA doing with the boodle before then?
 
2012-11-30 01:09:01 PM

basemetal: DubyaHater: Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.

Yep, and now we have been put into the position to have "the talk" with that patient. That talk is seldom a nice quiet conversation. I hate being put in that position. We also have a way to look people up on the state narcotics bureau list. Insurance companies also send us letters about people.

/it's not always who you think it would be
//most time, you're not fooling anyone
///it's our license on the line, not yours.


I feel bad for pharmacists as well. I wouldn't want to be put in the position of saying "I'm sorry, but we can't fill this prescription because of your prescription history". I don't like getting that phone call from the pharmacist because I know you guys are on the front lines.
 
2012-11-30 01:09:11 PM

Dirtybird971: "We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?" Mark said.

Pay attention! They just said it.

is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.


I was told years ago that Buffalo/Rochester are heroin hubs as well, though this was all hearsay. I believe it though; Bill Johnson royally screwed Rochester up for a decade and the gang violence got a lot worse during that time. So I could totally see that being related to increased heroin trade in the city. I've also noticed during my time in the southern tier that a LOT of people get arrested for possession with intent to distribute during routine traffic stops on the highway.
 
2012-11-30 01:09:46 PM
I purposely didn't fill my script for painkillers after my root canal and dental implant both to balance the scales a bit in KY in regards to drug abuse.
 
2012-11-30 01:12:32 PM

vudukungfu: nekom: My solution: Treat substance abuse as a public health issue rather than a criminal one.

My solution: Hancuff them to cots bolted to the floor. Give them water and bread. And when they've been clean for 3 months, they can leave jail.
If you catch them using agian, repeat. No coddle drugs. Just cold turket.
fark them. they bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting in to.
Fark junkies all right to hell.


...opiate withdrawal is incredibly painful and can kill you.

After you quit (or stop taking them... However you want to look at it) you can feel like you have an extremely bad flu for weeks.

Being a junkie is bad. It makes people bad sometimes.

Getting a junkie to quit by strapping them to a cot will do absolutely nothing except for maybe kill them.

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them and I agree with you in theory.

But that wouldn't even kind of work. At all.
 
2012-11-30 01:12:45 PM

violentsalvation: This article has reassured me that everyone involved in drug prohibition is either completely full of sh*t, or has suffered major brain damage.

"We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

If you're that stupid you should probably apply for disability benefits and some assisted-living before you drown in a glass of water.

heroin can cost as little as $15 to $20 for a hit that will give the user the same high for 24 hours

You can't just copy and paste your scaremongering drug "facts" interchangeably. Heroin isn't super-meth, a heroin high lasts a few hours.

So and so's kid died, chat with the medical examiner, same old media scare piece, stay vigilant citizens. We will win this drug war any day now.


I think what they meant is that you can get a 20 bag of 'that heron' which can keep someone with a moderate tolerance high for 24-48 hours.

On a personal note, I don't mess with opiates because I want the morphine to work if I end up in the hospital for major trauma. The tolerance buildup for opiods is ridiculous.
 
2012-11-30 01:17:20 PM
Dreyelle:

FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?


I think they were hoping people would turn to Jesus. People tell me there ain't much else to do there.



Lunaville: I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.

Some people do need to destroy themselves, unfortunately. Anyway, the article said the smack was "imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America." That leads me to believe it's "Black Tar" from Mexico (or the brown powder made from cutting that with lactose or some other white powder), instead of the "normal" form of white powder heroin from Central Asia. In the past few years there's been a lot of talk in the regional media about Black Tar, including attributing its presence to "illegal immigrants" plotting to pollute our boldily fluids.

So what happened to old-fashioned white powder heroin anyway? Is it still around in the really big cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.)?


(Begin blathering rant:) By the way, yesterday I went to do an "Intake" at a psychiatric clinic, filling out forms etc., so I can keep getting the Wellbutrin XL and Celexa that I've become used to these past few years. I was a little dismayed that they required me to aswer questions about recent illegal/illict drug use (all no, dammit) and piss in a cup but I did it anyway, then one form contained a clause I was expected to agree to and initial: something like "I agree to come in for random drug tests on demand."

Of course I blew my stack. In writing and in person I informed the staff there that in the first place I'm there for Wellbutrin and Celexa, neither of which was a Controlled Substance the last time I checked, and that during a scheduled appointment if the prescriber gives me a good reason for urine or blood tests ("checking for liver damage" or some such) I'll gladly cooperate, but there's no way in hell I'm going to agree to drop everything an come in for a drug test at their beck and call.

First the answer was "Then maybe you don't need to come here then." That pissed me off even more. I pointed out again that Celexa and Wellbutin are not Controlled Substances and said that I'm not going to be seeking Controlled Subvstances there (certainly not after that), then asked again why they would want to test me. Finally, after treating me like I was "being difficult" for five minutes, somebody gave me an answer that made some kind of sense: if they're not prescribing me Controlled Substances then "of course" I won't have to be tested. Okay...

So why didn't they say so in the first place instead of acting like they were going to have me forcibly tased for questioning them? And why do they piss-test everybody trying to sign up for any reason and shove their policy on Controlled Substances at them? It would make more sense if they'd first establish prescribing a Controlled Substance was an issue, then say as "As a condition of giving you a prescription for that we'll want you to piss in a cup and to read, understand and consent to abide by our policy on Controlled Substances as spelled out in this here paper."

Nope, instead they expect everybody coming there for anything to agree to random drug tests right off the bat. They might at least change the wording, something like "I agree that if I'm ever prescribed a Controlled Substance [there] I will come in for random drug tests."

They also make everybody to agree to fill all their prescriptions at the same pharmacy, to stop getting pain pills there if they go elsewhere (such as a pain clinic) and get pain pills, etc. etc. etc. They explain that as part of KY's new "get tough on pill abuse" policy; they haven't yet explained why they insist on shoving this crap at everybody who walks in the door.

They gave me an appoointment about 3 weeks hence, but it would not surprize me if they call to cancel because they think I'll be "disruptive" or something. Like I said, when I questioned this policy their Weeners was to slap me for challenging their authority, that it took about five minutes of back & forth before some employee finally "clarified" that that most likely won't apply to me anyway. The logical answer would have begun with another question: "Do you want us to give you a Controlled Substance?" to which I'd answer in the negative, then they'd say "Oh, so that doesn't apply to you anyway, never mind about it." (Leaving aside the issue of piss tests on demand for anybody, which I told to be tyrannical.)

Any Farker who's bothered to not Ignore me over the past few months has undoubtedly noted that I have "problems with Authority"; if they're not very nice to me when/if I go for my first real appointment I'm going to walk down the street to another psych clinic and see what they have to say for themselves. If nothing else my Family Practice doctor will probably prescribe to get me through the winter: she can be a little bossy but at least she's nice about it and doesn't bother me with intrusive crap that doesn't have anything to do with why I'm there (e.g., that practice has never wanted a drug analysis in the 5 years I've been going).

"There is some shiat I will not eat." It's too bad more people don't draw that line clearly: there is some shiat They should know better than to bring up by now.

Anyway.

/blathering rant
 
2012-11-30 01:17:26 PM
I'm riding the dragon right now, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies
 
2012-11-30 01:18:04 PM

shroomgirl34: DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.

In all seriousness, what should those of us in real constant pain do? I was diagnosed with one of those made up diseases (first they said lupus then Grave's disease then rheumatoid arthritis then fibromyalgia then settled on scleroderma pfft whatever) so the doctors they kept sending me to "specialist" all wanted to put me on all this horrific medicine that would potentially make me blind or suicidal or have liver failure or you know, DIE. And by refusing to take any of that crap they say they can't treat me because I am an unwilling patient. WHATEVER ... all I want is something to make the pain go away so I can work. Mostly it is ok with OTC stuff but a half a hydro and getting to sleep makes a big difference when you are working seven 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time. Now it's so bad I have been escorted out simply for mentioning "joint pain". That's all it took, appointment over, we don't waste our time on pain patients. Sigh... So f ...


If you honestly have bad joint pain, this is the best non-narcotic remedy you could possibly find Link My girlfriend who has pretty bad chronic back pain says it takes the pain away better than oxy, my grandma uses it for her neck pain instead of percocet, I have been using it with like 2 aspirin for my knees. Only bad thing is it's only available to medical marijuana patients in Colorado.

As for the use of Oxy, it can be (ab?)used responsibly. I buy like 2-3 pills a month, it's not addictive because it sucks a lot. I realize that I am in a very small minority of people who could do that and not have the desire to be on them all the time (probably has something to do with actually seeing people in sever opioid withdrawal, it's pretty farking ugly). One of the less talked about things in Obamacare is it provides much greater access to addicts seeking treatment. I'm hoping that it can help those people, because a lot of them don't want to have to take a pill everyday, they just have too.
 
2012-11-30 01:21:52 PM
When the war on drugs destroys more lives than the actual drugs, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
 
2012-11-30 01:23:00 PM

impaler: When the war on drugs destroys more lives than the actual drugs, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.


But people who alter their consciousness by consuming substances are inherently evil and must be punished!
 
2012-11-30 01:23:05 PM

R.A.Danny: BigLuca: Skarekrough:
I've been in to see the Doc twice in the past two years and each time I've walked away with a prescription for Oxycodone. The amount they give me us just ludicrous; a weeks supply for something that will likely start to abate due to treatment in 24 hours or so.

They just can't seem to give me enough of it.

I'm reluctant to take it. Both times I took one dose because I wouldn't be able to sleep with the pain being as bad as it was and then that was it. A few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).

[i269.photobucket.com image 831x456]

Yeah. My Dr. thoroughly believes I should have a bottle of Vicodin around the house just in case my torn rotator cuff, my shredded knees, or my diskless L5 act up. I use about 20 a year. That amount wouldn't last a week with my in-laws.


the VA sends me 180 a month....

Tolerance is a motherfarker.
 
2012-11-30 01:32:29 PM
Growing your own poppies is a grey legal area. I've seen plenty of gardeners swear it is legal and plenty of LEO types say "we really don't care". I imagine if you're suddenly growing an acre or 5 of Papaver Somniferum you'll probably get a knock on your door to see if you're growing them for ornamentation purposes or not (they're apparently big for arrangements or something).

Thing is growing magic mushrooms is considered to be "manufacture of a controller substance" but opium production only starts, from what I've read, as soon as you've scored the pod. You can make a tea from the dried pods and get a good high from it which makes them as good as mushrooms IMO when it comes to manufacturing a controlled substance. Granted the plant/fungus is doing the work so I don't see how you can accuse a person of manufacturing anything. If all you did was chuck some seeds in an empty lot you're guilty of maybe littering and tresspassing.

Still, to support a serious habit you'd need more than a few acres of land to supply it. For occasion use you'd probably be fine with a handful of plants.

/not that I'd know or anything
 
2012-11-30 01:33:04 PM
If you honestly have bad joint pain, this is the best non-narcotic remedy you could possibly find Link My girlfriend who has pretty bad chronic back pain says it takes the pain away better than oxy, my grandma uses it for her neck pain instead of percocet, I have been using it with like 2 aspirin for my knees. Only bad thing is it's only available to medical marijuana patients in Colorado.

Dammit man!! I was all happy til I read that last line
 
2012-11-30 01:39:36 PM
"There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE,

FOR farkS SAKE, LEGALIZE WEED THEN.

Theres just a level of infinite cognitive dissonance required to make a statement like that and still be a part of the war on drugs.

"Well sure, once weve eliminated every other drug, people will be reduced to shooting krokodil and huffing gasoline, theyll all die and the war on drugs will be won, its as easy as that!"

/thats the beautiful part, come winter the gorillas just freeze to death
 
2012-11-30 01:40:07 PM

shroomgirl34: If you honestly have bad joint pain, this is the best non-narcotic remedy you could possibly find Link My girlfriend who has pretty bad chronic back pain says it takes the pain away better than oxy, my grandma uses it for her neck pain instead of percocet, I have been using it with like 2 aspirin for my knees. Only bad thing is it's only available to medical marijuana patients in Colorado.

Dammit man!! I was all happy til I read that last line


Since it's just lotion and you seem legit I could mail you some. Let me put some email in my profile real quick and you can email me.
 
2012-11-30 01:42:08 PM

Dreyelle: FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?


They still haven't learned to pick their battles wisely. Pills may be bad, but Heroin is probably worse. At least it's not Meth and Krocodil yet.

A real strategy would involve going after the most harmful drugs the hardest and trying to manage the least harmful. It would probably mean letting marijuana and moonshine become decriminalized. It would also be political suicide because your not "Hard on Crime".
 
2012-11-30 01:43:26 PM

A Terrible Human: tricycleracer: Maybe original-recipe Four Loko could have saved us from this scourge.

That doesn't help when you live in a dry town that has fark all to do. Maybe if these little shiathole towns didn't try to kill people via boredom people wouldn't want to get high all the time.


Agreed. I blame society. Listen, Society, if you were more enriching, fulfilling and lucrative, people wouldn't need to "do drugs" to erase the pain and fill the void.

/i do drugs.
//if by "drugs" you mean "bacon."
 
2012-11-30 01:43:47 PM

lewismarktwo: On a personal note, I don't mess with opiates because I want the morphine to work if I end up in the hospital for major trauma. The tolerance buildup for opiods is ridiculous.


No kidding. When I get Vicodin and take it for effect rather than for pain relief taking another one even after ten days or so is like swallowing an M&M for me. I figure this is Cthulhu's way of keeping me from being addicted. And even though I was tempted (and he offered) I stayed the hell away from my husband's Dilaudid after his knee replacement surgery last year. I'd like there to be at least one drug I haven't tried yet.
 
2012-11-30 01:44:27 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: Dreyelle: FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?

They still haven't learned to pick their battles wisely. Pills may be bad, but Heroin is probably worse. At least it's not Meth and Krocodil yet.

A real strategy would involve going after the most harmful drugs the hardest and trying to manage the least harmful. It would probably mean letting marijuana and moonshine become decriminalized. It would also be political suicide because your not "Hard on Crime".


That shiat sounds like a god damn nightmare from what I've read of it. I'm always amazed at peoples inner macgyver when it comes to finding a way to get farked up.
 
2012-11-30 01:47:27 PM
i bet the police wish they would turn to phenazepam or bath salts
 
2012-11-30 01:47:34 PM
Where are all of these people getting their pain pills? I went into the hospital three days after gallbladder surgery because I was in so much pain I thought I was dying, and they thought I was drug seeking and sent me home, where I writhed on the couch at a level 9.5 on the pain scale for 24 hours. Before the surgery, no one would give me anything either, even though my gallbladder hurt so bad it was hard to walk. Hell, at the same time that my gallbladder was going to explode, I had an ectopic pregnancy, which no one could seem to diagnose except me, and which would regularly drop me to the floor at a level 10. That was considered to just be me trying to get pain pills, too, until they opened me up for the gallbladder and saw that I was hemorrhaging from it.

fark the war on pain pills. My doctors let me suffer in a way that no one should ever have to, just because they were afraid I wanted drugs for recreational use. Even though I had legitimate issues, they let me suffer. I have real anger issues over this.
 
2012-11-30 01:53:16 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: FirstNationalBastard: However, locking up addicts and pretending that's going to solve the problem instead of trying to fix the underlying causes of the addiction that they're probably going to immediately go back to once they get out, especially since they just rotted in prison for essentially no good reason, because we either really like vengeance, or because Prison owners need to make money... that's failure.

I would agree we need more focus on treatment and social root causes. I do however disagree with the "legalize everything" crowd. I think that's naive and would be socially disastrous. Unfortunately, many people who repeat the "drug war is a failure" rhetoric fall into the latter category. If you had just made a comment about addiction treatment to start with, instead of a very soundbitish one liner about "failure" I probably would have just agreed with you.


It would be socially disastrous to the docs who no longer have a monopoly on decent drugs.
 
2012-11-30 02:14:01 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?


nope...there hasn't. waaay too much money in the prison-industrial complex for legalization to happen...especially now.
 
2012-11-30 02:15:01 PM

stir22: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

nope...there hasn't. waaay too much money in the prison-industrial complex for legalization to happen...especially now.


Yes. My sister in law.
 
2012-11-30 02:15:59 PM

Skarekrough: 'm reluctant to take it. Both times I took one dose because I wouldn't be able to sleep with the pain being as bad as it was and then that was it. A few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).


This is a terrible idea.
 
2012-11-30 02:22:18 PM

distopianDream: Ha, I know a "Christian" woman that's always on pain meds for one of her many ailments. In her case though I think it's because she wants attention for the ailments not the high. I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.


money. chronic pain management patients are the most lucrative in a physicians office. they will always pay their bill, always be on time for appointments...as long as they get their Rx.
 
2012-11-30 02:26:29 PM

FloydA: "There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE, ... "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

I don't understand how officer Smoot can say this and not immediately conclude "therefore, the war on drugs is doomed to be a complete failure and waste of money."

The people who are going to take drugs are going to take drugs no matter what; we aren't going to convince them to stop. If you remove one drug, they will find another, and that new one might be worse. We really have to start treating drug addiction as a health issue, rather than a law enforcement issue. The drug war is costing us too much for no socially useful results.


Extremely much this.

Perhaps defunding the DEA might help solve some of the budget problems.

As for pain pills: I was on Vicodin last year for acute back problems, and I noticed that the pills always have X grams of hydrocodone (the stuff that's actually working) plus a bit of... acetaminophen (i.e. Tylenol, the stuff which at that level of pain is not really doing anything). I asked about that out of curiosity, and was told they put the acetaminophen in it because it will fark up your liver if you abuse the pills, so it's like a built in consequence to prevent people abusing it, or something.

Looking it up now in Wikipedia, it seems there's an actual pain reason to put the acetaminophen in it, but also there is actually a law saying that to remain Schedule III they do have to put some "non-narcotic therapeutic ingredient" in it at a certain percentage, so...

I will say I was in crazy amounts of pain and taking that pill helped it (as in, wow, I can kinda crawl around, and think about something other than pain), my first thought was, I can see why people are desperate to steal these things.

Side effects sucked for me though - really hard to pee and nauseous enough I needed to take Dramamine just to fly my desk at home.

/happily back to being able to manage just with cheap generic ibuprofen from the supermarket
 
2012-11-30 02:33:56 PM

Skarekrough: Freakish. I've had the opposite experience.

I've been in to see the Doc twice in the past two years and each time I've walked away with a prescription for Oxycodone. The amount they give me us just ludicrous; a weeks supply for something that will likely start to abate due to treatment in 24 hours or so.


Are you upper middle class and white, by any chance?

Sadly enough these things definitely matter when it comes to doctors being happy to prescribe pain medication.
 
2012-11-30 02:41:33 PM

bim1154: R.A.Danny: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

We might just be related.

I know my doctor on a personal level as well. It would probably be fairly easy for me to get some good stuff on occasion, but I am fully aware that I have what I call an "addiction gene". I have some pretty good aches and pains from my bull riding days, but to date I have avoided everything stronger than 500mg naproxen and that shiat seizes me up if I take more than 2 a day for 2 consecutive days, so I don't.


Bullrider? So in addition to tending toward addiction you are a crazy bastard.

We're you any good?

/from cheyenne and love bullriding.
//watching
 
2012-11-30 02:43:11 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: I do however disagree with the "legalize everything" crowd. I think that's naive and would be socially disastrous. Unfortunately, many people who repeat the "drug war is a failure" rhetoric fall into the latter category.


Minimal snark intended here, but if you're able to say that legalizing everything would be "socially disastrous," then you must have a special ability to see the future that the rest of us--even on the "legalize everything" side of the argument--lack. If I had that ability I'd be busy picking lottery numbers and enjoying the winnings instead of wasting the workday on Fark, but I digress.

The point of legalizing everything, at least for me, is a matter of principle. Would legalization be a "disaster" for society? I don't pretend to know that with any real certainty, but what I do know is that a society that tolerates laws that make contraband out of certain substances is, in effect, an open air prison colony. I support legalization because it's the right thing to do and a good starting point considering what an authoritarian shiatshow prohibition has been. I don't doubt that some people's lives will be disasters post-legalization, but I can only really say that with any certainty because the existing laws haven't done a thing to prevent it in the here and now. One thing is certain: it will still be an imperfect world post-legalization; it's just that do-gooders might be able to channel their efforts a little more productively once the artificial (legal) problems are eliminated.

Start by doing the right thing, then address the problems that remain.
 
2012-11-30 02:43:32 PM

itazurakko: /happily back to being able to manage just with cheap generic ibuprofen from the supermarket


This stuff is the shiat for pain. It doesn't last quite as long as the pills, but it kicks in faster than anything else and will take the edge off damn near anything. I use it pretty much exclusively now, pretty much all my pains come and go throughout the day (well, my back and knees are constant, but low enough I don't need to constantly medicate) so I don't need anything that will last more than four hours or so at a pop.
 
2012-11-30 02:50:24 PM

itazurakko: FloydA: "There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE, ... "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

I don't understand how officer Smoot can say this and not immediately conclude "therefore, the war on drugs is doomed to be a complete failure and waste of money."

The people who are going to take drugs are going to take drugs no matter what; we aren't going to convince them to stop. If you remove one drug, they will find another, and that new one might be worse. We really have to start treating drug addiction as a health issue, rather than a law enforcement issue. The drug war is costing us too much for no socially useful results.

Extremely much this.

Perhaps defunding the DEA might help solve some of the budget problems.

As for pain pills: I was on Vicodin last year for acute back problems, and I noticed that the pills always have X grams of hydrocodone (the stuff that's actually working) plus a bit of... acetaminophen (i.e. Tylenol, the stuff which at that level of pain is not really doing anything). I asked about that out of curiosity, and was told they put the acetaminophen in it because it will fark up your liver if you abuse the pills, so it's like a built in consequence to prevent people abusing it, or something.

Looking it up now in Wikipedia, it seems there's an actual pain reason to put the acetaminophen in it, but also there is actually a law saying that to remain Schedule III they do have to put some "non-narcotic therapeutic ingredient" in it at a certain percentage, so...

I will say I was in crazy amounts of pain and taking that pill helped it (as in, wow, I can kinda crawl around, and think about something other than pain), my first thought was, I can see why people are desperate to steal these things.

Side effects sucked for me though - really hard to pee and nauseous enough I needed to take Dramamine j ...


I think there was a semi-recent FDA mandate to reduce the amount of acetaminophen in things like that, i dont know about the schedule thing, but i was chatting with the pharmacist for a bit last time i got a pain pill script (root canal), i got 7.5/750 hydro/tylenol, and it said one every four hours, i asked, wouldnt that put me over the daily max dose of tylenol (which is 4g)? The Pharmacist was telling me it doesnt count me sleeping, but that acetaminophen is the leading cause of liver failure nowadays, even more than alcohol. I got 7.5/325 oxy/tylenol the next time, yay. When i take them though i only take half of one every 3 hours instead of a whole one ever 4, even with a claratin the itching is pretty bad, and i dont like being 3 days behind on pooping.
 
2012-11-30 02:58:43 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: itazurakko: /happily back to being able to manage just with cheap generic ibuprofen from the supermarket

This stuff is the shiat for pain. It doesn't last quite as long as the pills, but it kicks in faster than anything else and will take the edge off damn near anything. I use it pretty much exclusively now, pretty much all my pains come and go throughout the day (well, my back and knees are constant, but low enough I don't need to constantly medicate) so I don't need anything that will last more than four hours or so at a pop.


Hm. I'll definitely have to give it a try - for me when I have pain too it's pretty localized in time, and usually I'm wanting something to make it bearable to do (or, start) the therapy exercises I do which actually make the rest of the day good.

Cyno01: The Pharmacist was telling me it doesnt count me sleeping, but that acetaminophen is the leading cause of liver failure nowadays, even more than alcohol.


Interesting. I suspect people who are abusing opiate painkillers probably aren't caring so much about the "see, we put the consequence in it!" bit by the time they get well and truly hooked, so probably contributing to that total...
 
2012-11-30 03:00:52 PM
A Terrible Human:

I love how they just made everything worse. Now instead of playing spot the meth addict I can play spot the heroin addict. At least the heroin addicts won't look as gross.

And they're much easier to get along with. They'll still steal from you though.
 
2012-11-30 03:01:48 PM
Couldn't people just, you know, not abuse drugs? They're bad, m'k?
 
2012-11-30 03:05:30 PM

DrBreRuthlessVillain: Minimal snark intended here, but if you're able to say that legalizing everything would be "socially disastrous," then you must have a special ability to see the future that the rest of us--even on the "legalize everything" side of the argument--lack. If I had that ability I'd be busy picking lottery numbers and enjoying the winnings instead of wasting the workday on Fark, but I digress


Um...........okay.


DrBreRuthlessVillain: The point of legalizing everything, at least for me, is a matter of principle. Would legalization be a "disaster" for society? I don't pretend to know that with any real certainty, but what I do know is that a society that tolerates laws that make contraband out of certain substances is, in effect, an open air prison colony.


Okay, so what about other drugs? Say antibiotics - where we know overuse has very undesirable and serious effects on society as a whole (bacterial resistance). Do you want to have a free for all on ALL drugs? Or just the fun ones? Honest question.

Another complication is that we seem to expect the government to protect us when it comes to "big corporations" selling us unsafe products. Oh noe, this product had a bad side effect, sue sue sue! BUT.... then we expect the government to completely deregulate things which we already know for a fact often have bad effects on people. Which is it? This seems to me like a complete 100% contradiction.

Should corporations be able to market anything, even useless stuff, poorly made stuff, known dangerous stuff? Again, this is an honest question. If we allow companies to all out market products known to be unsafe or kill you, then so be it. But that floodgate is open. I don't think you can say "only unsafe fun drugs should be deregulated, but other bad corporate things stay regulated by the government"

/ps. try a little harder on minimizing the snark. Additional side stories about lottery tickets will probably cause me to dismiss you as a nutjob.cause me
 
2012-11-30 03:12:32 PM
Marcus Aurelius:

Lunaville: I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.

It's more of a need to self-medicate. Opiate addicts can be perfectly functional in society.


Well, true to a point: there are opiate users who use it as medication, some who use it more or less responsibly for recreation, and there ate those who use it as a weapon against themselves. Same as with alcohol, some users can be functional and some don't even try.


It's the lack of a clean, cheap, and and reliable opium source that does all the damage.

That and a lack of common sense. You do know that when many smack users hear of a new "brand" that's ODing people left & right they can't wait to try it themselves, right? Some'll even try it when they know it's mixed with some kind of poison just to see what the high is like.

While I support legalizing heroin and have nothing against heroin per se, there are some who can't be trusted with anything in any way dangerous. Maybe society should let people do H all they want but stop bringing them back from ODs after the third time. (One guy I know got Narcanned twice in one month; he eventually died when there was nobody around to call 911.)
 
2012-11-30 03:15:48 PM

nekom: Fear the Clam: Or you can just grow your own poppies.

I wonder if any addict actually ever tried this. And for that matter, at what point does it become illegal? I've seen the seeds for sale (which doesn't demonstrate them to be legal, but suggests they must be), are they even legal to grow as ornamental? Does the point at which you break the law start when they are harvested or scraped or however you get the goo?

Not going to do it, just curious.


Pretty sure you need a buttload of them to make any heroin

/I have poppies in my backyard
 
2012-11-30 03:16:52 PM

Jument: Couldn't people just, you know, not abuse drugs? They're bad, m'k?


For starters policy would be better off realizing that (1) not all use is abuse (even recreationally) and (2) not all drugs are the same level of risky.

Currently the drug warriors draw some bright line in between alcohol (OK!) and weed (Evil!) and then lump weed in with "all other drugs" and take horror stories from the worst of heroin and meth addicts and call that "the dangers of drugs."

Whereas, the first drug (as in something you consume that noticeably alters your mood to the point of possibly not being able to work efficiently, and is enjoyable) that most people consume isn't weed, it's ALCOHOL. But alcohol is okay, for various historical reasons. (Of course there are certainly plenty of modern teetotalling crusaders who would like to ban alcohol again as well.)

Meanwhile, (1) abuse of pain pills is happening, abuse of Ritalin and adderall is DEFINITELY happening (big on college campuses, apparently) but they're prescription so sort of "okay," and (2) zero-tolerance for alcohol and weed particularly for young people is leading them to try smoking crazier and crazier things with probably worse side effects.

This idea that it needs to be all or nothing, that taking one sip is the same as being an addict, and that all substances behave the same way (because they make you "an addict" and that's just terrible!!! You're going to jump off a building and rip your face off!!!) with the same risks, is the problem.

On the other hand there are people who seem to think that well, if we legalize things no one will have a drug problem, that isn't right either. There are alcoholics and alcohol is legal. But!! For people who DO have an addiction problem (because people can get addicted to all sorts of things, not even just substances either) making some way for them to properly get treatment for it is probably a better way to go, I would think. Lots of people do realize they have a problem, even aside from the hard core problem people whom maybe just plain can't be helped.
 
2012-11-30 03:18:51 PM

A Terrible Human: tricycleracer:

Maybe original-recipe Four Loko could have saved us from this scourge.

That doesn't help when you live in a dry town that has fark all to do. Maybe if these little shiathole towns didn't try to kill people via boredom people wouldn't want to get high all the time.


Sometimes I wonder why these little towns are there in the first place. In many of them there are no jobs available for most people and some don't even have their own schools; there's almost always a holy roller church there though, and a Wal-Mart 40 miles away by treacherous rural roads. Why not move everybody close to the county seat or biggest nearby town and let the rest of the land go back to forest? Is there any good reason for "Dick Lick, Pop. 87?"
 
2012-11-30 03:19:03 PM
FTA: "Law enforcement officials in Kentucky and Ohio said the heroin, which is generally snorted or injected in powder form"

Now I used to hang out with a few heroin junkies and I've NEVER even heard them mention snorting it. Does anyone actually do that?
I've only seen them smoke or inject it.

Bunny Deville: fark the war on pain pills. My doctors let me suffer in a way that no one should ever have to, just because they were afraid I wanted drugs for recreational use. Even though I had legitimate issues, they let me suffer. I have real anger issues over this.


Reminds me of a problem I had. I was in excruciating pain after a run when I screwed up my knee, I went to the hospital to be seen. The doctor listened to what I said and did a quick look at my knee. He didn't write me a prescription or a note to be excused from PT, he told me to just go buy some ibuprofen from the store.

Fast forward 4 years when I filed a claim with the VA. I was just seen a couple months ago but the doctor that examined my knee did a thorough look at it, pulling and pushing on it various ways, seeing how I could support myself standing on it/walking and such and even took xrays of it. It turns out that my knee became misaligned in the injury and was causing degenerative wear this whole time. Thank you initial doctor that didn't care, thank you coworkers on a power trip that forced me to continue running on it.
 
2012-11-30 03:20:37 PM

itazurakko: Jument: Couldn't people just, you know, not abuse drugs? They're bad, m'k?

For starters policy would be better off realizing that (1) not all use is abuse (even recreationally) and (2) not all drugs are the same level of risky.

Currently the drug warriors draw some bright line in between alcohol (OK!) and weed (Evil!) and then lump weed in with "all other drugs" and take horror stories from the worst of heroin and meth addicts and call that "the dangers of drugs."

Whereas, the first drug (as in something you consume that noticeably alters your mood to the point of possibly not being able to work efficiently, and is enjoyable) that most people consume isn't weed, it's ALCOHOL. But alcohol is okay, for various historical reasons. (Of course there are certainly plenty of modern teetotalling crusaders who would like to ban alcohol again as well.)

Meanwhile, (1) abuse of pain pills is happening, abuse of Ritalin and adderall is DEFINITELY happening (big on college campuses, apparently) but they're prescription so sort of "okay," and (2) zero-tolerance for alcohol and weed particularly for young people is leading them to try smoking crazier and crazier things with probably worse side effects.

This idea that it needs to be all or nothing, that taking one sip is the same as being an addict, and that all substances behave the same way (because they make you "an addict" and that's just terrible!!! You're going to jump off a building and rip your face off!!!) with the same risks, is the problem.

On the other hand there are people who seem to think that well, if we legalize things no one will have a drug problem, that isn't right either. There are alcoholics and alcohol is legal. But!! For people who DO have an addiction problem (because people can get addicted to all sorts of things, not even just substances either) making some way for them to properly get treatment for it is probably a better way to go, I would think. Lots of people do realize they have a problem, e ...


an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal
 
2012-11-30 03:22:49 PM
DubyaHater:

I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

I was going to say "Why would anybody bother with Percocet?" but then the Wikipedia article makes me think the Percocet of today is a different formulation from the weak near-placebo my mom took for back ache in 1976. Was there always oxycodone in it?
 
2012-11-30 03:23:03 PM

ladyfortuna [TotalFark]

Dirtybird971: "We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?" Mark said.

Pay attention! They just said it.

is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.

I was told years ago that Buffalo/Rochester are heroin hubs as well, though this was all hearsay. I believe it though; Bill Johnson royally screwed Rochester up for a decade and the gang violence got a lot worse during that time. So I could totally see that being related to increased heroin trade in the city. I've also noticed during my time in the southern tier that a LOT of people get arrested for possession with intent to distribute during routine traffic stops on the highway.


I'm in NJ and I used to be addicted. I just went to Newark for mine. But back when I was using a 'friend" of mine had to go to the FL keys and while he was there he went into withdrawl. he looked around for a likely candidate and was able to score there too. This guy said "you come form a heroin "capital" (NJ) and you need me to help you?"
 
2012-11-30 03:24:11 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal


Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.
 
2012-11-30 03:27:00 PM

Tenatra: Jon iz teh kewl: an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.


i used to drink about 3-6 beers every night to fall asleep. i quit like 11 months later and had no withdrawal symptoms
 
2012-11-30 03:29:42 PM
A fentanyl bomb has hit Appalachia. Not surprised that Heroin is close behind.

In my day it was something you used to dislodge Chechnyan separtists from theatres.

/adjusts opioid onion
 
2012-11-30 03:33:22 PM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7461009/81008619#c81008619" target="_blank">Jon iz teh kewl</a>:</b> <i>Tenatra: Jon iz teh kewl: an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.

i used to drink about 3-6 beers every night to fall asleep. i quit like 11 months later and had no withdrawal symptoms</i>

Probably thanks to teetotaler influence, what the medical type folks call alcoholism and binge drinking is far from what any normal person would consider alcoholism or binge drinking. Drinking 3 or more nights a week? Alcoholic. More than 3 drinks in one sitting, with the length of time of a sitting being left undefined? Binge drinking.

3 beers between when you get home from work at 6 and go to bed at 11? Big farking deal. Slamming a six pack right before bed... probably not good, but neither of those are going to give you the DTs like the guy pounding a pint of vodak in the parking lot before work would have if he stopped.

/disclaimer; anyone who drinks less than me is a teetoataler
//anyone who drinks more than me is an alcoholic
///sips whiskey and diet dew
 
2012-11-30 03:34:06 PM

Fentanyl Bomb: A fentanyl bomb has hit Appalachia. Not surprised that Heroin is close behind.

In my day it was something you used to dislodge Chechnyan separtists from theatres.

/adjusts opioid onion


your thinking of Car Fentanyl
a special kind of fentanyl designed for cars

Link
 
2012-11-30 03:39:35 PM

itazurakko: Hm. I'll definitely have to give it a try - for me when I have pain too it's pretty localized in time, and usually I'm wanting something to make it bearable to do (or, start) the therapy exercises I do which actually make the rest of the day good.


This oughta help then, if you're like me (and everyone I know), two packs will start working in about ten minutes. It's basically Excedrin in powder form, but it works much better than the pills.

If you do try it, don't mix it in water as is recommended. Just pour it out on your tongue and wash it down with something quick. It'll taste like shiat (which is why I recommend the orange stuff, it tastes like orange aspirin instead of just aspirin) and you don't want to breath it, but it'll work better.
 
2012-11-30 03:39:39 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: DrBreRuthlessVillain: Minimal snark intended here, but if you're able to say that legalizing everything would be "socially disastrous," then you must have a special ability to see the future that the rest of us--even on the "legalize everything" side of the argument--lack. If I had that ability I'd be busy picking lottery numbers and enjoying the winnings instead of wasting the workday on Fark, but I digress

Um...........okay.


DrBreRuthlessVillain: The point of legalizing everything, at least for me, is a matter of principle. Would legalization be a "disaster" for society? I don't pretend to know that with any real certainty, but what I do know is that a society that tolerates laws that make contraband out of certain substances is, in effect, an open air prison colony.

Okay, so what about other drugs? Say antibiotics - where we know overuse has very undesirable and serious effects on society as a whole (bacterial resistance). Do you want to have a free for all on ALL drugs? Or just the fun ones? Honest question.

Another complication is that we seem to expect the government to protect us when it comes to "big corporations" selling us unsafe products. Oh noe, this product had a bad side effect, sue sue sue! BUT.... then we expect the government to completely deregulate things which we already know for a fact often have bad effects on people. Which is it? This seems to me like a complete 100% contradiction.

Should corporations be able to market anything, even useless stuff, poorly made stuff, known dangerous stuff? Again, this is an honest question. If we allow companies to all out market products known to be unsafe or kill you, then so be it. But that floodgate is open. I don't think you can say "only unsafe fun drugs should be deregulated, but other bad corporate things stay regulated by the government"

/ps. try a little harder on minimizing the snark. Additional side stories about lottery tickets will probably cause me to dismiss you as a nutjob.cause me


you can get antibiotics OTC at pretty much any pet store
 
2012-11-30 03:40:19 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Fentanyl Bomb: A fentanyl bomb has hit Appalachia. Not surprised that Heroin is close behind.

In my day it was something you used to dislodge Chechnyan separtists from theatres.

/adjusts opioid onion

your thinking of Car Fentanyl
a special kind of fentanyl designed for cars

Link



Thats it. I prefer an ether-soaked sock in the floorboard for driving, myself.
 
2012-11-30 03:47:05 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Okay, so what about other drugs? Say antibiotics - where we know overuse has very undesirable and serious effects on society as a whole (bacterial resistance). Do you want to have a free for all on ALL drugs? Or just the fun ones? Honest question.


It is an honest and fair question. For me it's a matter of cause, effect and an overestimation of the effectiveness of centralized authority. You mention the issue of bacterial resistance to antibiotics, but what is the cause of this problem? As I understand it (and I have limited ability to discuss issues related to pharmacology: not much training), over-prescription is a factor along with incomplete use--so an incompletely treated infection has bacteria that survive and are resistant to the drug going forward. But this is all happening now WITH the leviathan state that acknowledges no limits on its power. Should more be done? Do patients taking antibiotics need a live-in agent from the government to see to it that all bottles of pills get finished? How much more hand-holding from the paternalists is needed before we can start to level-off the government's reach? I'm sure the answer to that question from some people here in the "land of the free" is scarier than any of the problems we're supposedly addressing with all this stuff.

Another complication is that we seem to expect the government to protect us when it comes to "big corporations" selling us unsafe products. Oh noe, this product had a bad side effect, sue sue sue! BUT.... then we expect the government to completely deregulate things which we already know for a fact often have bad effects on people. Which is it? This seems to me like a complete 100% contradiction.

Well, I personally expect very little from the government but still wind up disappointed more often than not. I think a lot of what you mention here could be resolved through the civil courts as you say, but also criminally by prosecuting the under-enforced crime of fraud. What you're describing here is either a mis-representation of an item for sale (fraud) or a breach of a duty of care or contract. Common law recognized and dealt with these concerns a long time before "we" decided a massive regulatory apparatus was of such critical importance. Other than that, I think people should be free to purchase, consume and have the items they want so long as what the goods being delivered are the goods being ordered.

/ps. try a little harder on minimizing the snark. Additional side stories about lottery tickets will probably cause me to dismiss you as a nutjob ...

Sensitive. I recognize this is a different way of approaching things, considering how doctrinaire and enamored of the conventional wisdom people can be. I'll be ok if you dismiss me as a nutjob with even more cause than you have now.
 
2012-11-30 03:51:01 PM

FirstNationalBastard: However, locking up addicts and pretending that's going to solve the problem instead of trying to fix the underlying causes of the addiction


Opiate receptors in the CNS?
 
2012-11-30 03:52:12 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Tenatra: Jon iz teh kewl: an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.

i used to drink about 3-6 beers every night to fall asleep. i quit like 11 months later and had no withdrawal symptoms


I was drinking a 5-6 of either of these nightly to go to sleep for close to 3 years
trashcan - Vodka, Gin, Tequila, Rum, Blue Curacao, Red bull
adios mother farker - Vodka, Gin, Tequila, Rum, Blue Curacao, sweet and sour, 7up

I felt like I needed it at night but I was able to quit. It took some effort, a few failed attempts, and ditching a lot of friends for good. My habit was nightly but I have however had friends that needed it right when they woke up. Withdrawal looks ugly and it was a big motivator for me to get away from it before I fell deeper. For them if they didn't start drinking their bottles right when they woke up it would lead to convulsions and vomiting. Vodka was their favorite since it looked like water and they were drinking in public (college, work, etc)
 
2012-11-30 03:59:44 PM

johnny queso: bim1154: R.A.Danny: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

We might just be related.

I know my doctor on a personal level as well. It would probably be fairly easy for me to get some good stuff on occasion, but I am fully aware that I have what I call an "addiction gene". I have some pretty good aches and pains from my bull riding days, but to date I have avoided everything stronger than 500mg naproxen and that shiat seizes me up if I take more than 2 a day for 2 consecutive days, so I don't.

Bullrider? So in addition to tending toward addiction you are a crazy bastard.

We're you any good?

/from cheyenne and love bullriding.
//watching


I was o.k. but far from being able to say I was championship material. I made the buzzer on a regular basis but others scored higher than me. Luck of the draw.

The thing I can say is I was riding bulls before they started wearing body armor and helmets. The other good thing about rough stock riders.... pussy, pussy, pussy and so much pussy you felt like a God.
 
2012-11-30 03:59:47 PM

Mazzic518: you can get antibiotics OTC at pretty much any pet store


Then they aren't the regulated antibiotics I was asking about, are they? ;-)
 
2012-11-30 04:03:19 PM

The One True TheDavid: DubyaHater:

I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

I was going to say "Why would anybody bother with Percocet?" but then the Wikipedia article makes me think the Percocet of today is a different formulation from the weak near-placebo my mom took for back ache in 1976. Was there always oxycodone in it?


Probably better synthesis of the active component. About 10 years ago, my doctor prescribed Percocet for a back injury. Good lord, what a ride.....right up until the time I started vomiting. Nonetheless, that was a good feeling and I haven't taken it since.
 
2012-11-30 04:05:12 PM

Cyno01: Probably thanks to teetotaler influence, what the medical type folks call alcoholism and binge drinking is far from what any normal person would consider alcoholism or binge drinking. Drinking 3 or more nights a week? Alcoholic. More than 3 drinks in one sitting, with the length of time of a sitting being left undefined? Binge drinking.

3 beers between when you get home from work at 6 and go to bed at 11? Big farking deal. Slamming a six pack right before bed... probably not good, but neither of those are going to give you the DTs like the guy pounding a pint of vodak in the parking lot before work would have if he stopped.


Indeed.

Serious alcohol withdrawal to the point where it's all about brain damage and hallucination is nothing to fark around with, on the other hand, most people will probably never know someone who is THAT badly off. Even most dependent people who are beating their families and all sorts of other horrible stuff aren't that far physically in. Just starting a google binge (heh) around the topic can be pretty horrifying yet fascinating.

I do think the official designations of binge drinking are pretty crazy these days though, yeah - I don't consider myself a particularly tolerant person, and yet on a Friday evening when I am planning to be pleasantly impaired, I can easily put away three or four beers (including a strong one, often) between 6 PM and midnight, all while remaining mellow and calm, and usually reading for pleasure or chatting it up with friends. If it's binge drinking, okay, but it's not impacting my life.

Apart from that though, even with things that aren't physically addicting (or people who aren't at that level) some people just have trouble stopping doing some behavior that THEY feel is impacting their life for the worse. That might be drinking too much beer (meaning: the amount of beer they drink or the time they spend not able to do work because they've started in on the beer is too much by THEIR OWN opinion for their own goals) or it might mean spending too much time playing video games to the exclusion of homework. Making it easier for people to get assistance altering their own habits is probably a good thing. That's even before people are being such problems for others that those others end up stepping in.
 
2012-11-30 04:06:37 PM

DrBreRuthlessVillain: But this is all happening now WITH the leviathan state that acknowledges no limits on its power. Should more be done? Do patients taking antibiotics need a live-in agent from the government to see to it that all bottles of pills get finished? How much more hand-holding from the paternalists is needed before we can start to level-off the government's reach?


How about not letting people have any and all antibiotics they want at any time, but only when a licenced medical doctor determines the person needs them?

We don't need hyperbolic strawmen about live-in government reps in our homes. Sorry but all of this seemed liked a very hyperbolic way of saying, "I can't think of a good answer."
 
2012-11-30 04:10:11 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.


You seem to be under the impression that the Hippocratic Oath is still taught.
 
2012-11-30 04:11:33 PM

Tenatra: I felt like I needed it at night but I was able to quit.


I should add that even though I've been away from alcohol for close to 2 1/2 years (aside from having 1 beer with dinner every 3 months). I want to drink really bad if it comes up in conversation. Oh damn you are all drinkin at the house tonight? I know not to do hard liquor because I'll have 1 drink, then it leads to another. BAM! Crazy drunk me makes enters the room and I won't be back until the next day after I pass the fark out.
 
2012-11-30 04:22:14 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Tenatra: Jon iz teh kewl: an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.

i used to drink about 3-6 beers every night to fall asleep. i quit like 11 months later and had no withdrawal symptoms


oh lawd, you drank six beers from presumably 6 o'clock in the afternoon until 11 o'clock at night? you must be hard. like, totally i bet you were a drinking professional.

/sarcasm out of batteries.
 
2012-11-30 04:28:07 PM

genzoman: Jon iz teh kewl: Tenatra: Jon iz teh kewl: an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.

i used to drink about 3-6 beers every night to fall asleep. i quit like 11 months later and had no withdrawal symptoms

oh lawd, you drank six beers from presumably 6 o'clock in the afternoon until 11 o'clock at night? you must be hard. like, totally i bet you were a drinking professional.

/sarcasm out of batteries.


but if i did the same thing and ended up in jail for assault i'd have an alcohol problem
 
2012-11-30 04:34:54 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Mazzic518: you can get antibiotics OTC at pretty much any pet store

Then they aren't the regulated antibiotics I was asking about, are they? ;-)


Yes they are
 
2012-11-30 04:37:11 PM

shroomgirl34: If you honestly have bad joint pain, this is the best non-narcotic remedy you could possibly find Link My girlfriend who has pretty bad chronic back pain says it takes the pain away better than oxy, my grandma uses it for her neck pain instead of percocet, I have been using it with like 2 aspirin for my knees. Only bad thing is it's only available to medical marijuana patients in Colorado.

Dammit man!! I was all happy til I read that last line


You may honestly want to get checked out for ankylosing spondylitis, particularly if you started hurting in your late teens/early 20s, or if you feel better when you're active instead of sedentary. It usually takes 7-10 years to get diagnosed properly due to poor diagnostic procedures, which sounds like something you've been through.

It's a son of a biatch, but it can be managed once you know what you're dealing with.
 
2012-11-30 04:38:33 PM
My ex-husband's girlfriend is taking Oxy for an injury that happened 5 years ago, she takes at least 2 a day and drinks a bottle of Vodak a day. I don't know how her liver can function, but I do know they are very miserable. (ha!)
 
2012-11-30 04:41:35 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: How about not letting people have any and all antibiotics they want at any time, but only when a licenced medical doctor determines the person needs them?

We don't need hyperbolic strawmen about live-in government reps in our homes. Sorry but all of this seemed liked a very hyperbolic way of saying, "I can't think of a good answer."


So the part you ignored about cause, effect and the efficacy of centralized authority is the irrelevant part of the answer, but the conjecture about what the government might do next in its righteous crusade is central to the point.

...And even all of that is fine either way, but you already have it your way and yet you seem to admit the problem persists in spite of the government's mandate. Considering the age we live in and the extreme (at least by my definition) measures government has taken to "solve" all manner of problems, is the idea of official supervision for people taking medications so far-fetched? Apparently you're more concerned with mutating bacteria than government gone wild. That's one of our differences.
 
2012-11-30 04:43:01 PM

bim1154: johnny queso: bim1154: R.A.Danny: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

We might just be related.

I know my doctor on a personal level as well. It would probably be fairly easy for me to get some good stuff on occasion, but I am fully aware that I have what I call an "addiction gene". I have some pretty good aches and pains from my bull riding days, but to date I have avoided everything stronger than 500mg naproxen and that shiat seizes me up if I take more than 2 a day for 2 consecutive days, so I don't.

Bullrider? So in addition to tending toward addiction you are a crazy bastard.

We're you any good?

/from cheyenne and love bullriding.
//watching

I was o.k. but far from being able to say I was championship material. I made the buzzer on a regular basis but others scored higher than me. Luck of the draw.

The thing I can say is I was riding bulls before they started wearing body armor and helmets. The other good thing about rough stock riders.... pussy, pussy, pussy and so much pussy you felt like a God.


in my memory, charles sampson was one of the first to wear a helmet after getting his face collapsed in front of ronald reagan. dont remember why he was riding a bull in front of ronald reagan.

rule of thumb from my youth- dont get in bar fights with bull riders or chuck wagon drivers.

sorry for the threadjack.
 
2012-11-30 04:50:29 PM
Could the increase in heroin have anything to do with the U.S. military guarding the poppy fields in Afghanistan? I thought I read that our troops in Afghanistan were guarding the poppy fields in order to keep the local populace from turning against us. However I can't find any reputable source on that so maybe it's just BS. If it is true though, it would explain the large increase in heroin use across the country.
 
2012-11-30 04:54:02 PM
FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 .

The street price of typical oxy is a couple dollars. For all their contact with drug dealers cops sure get the prices of drugs wrong a lot. I wonder why that is?

/Alcohol is cheap and legal.
//Tramadol is the only thing I've found that works for my back and doesn't make me sleepy.
///It also works very well for depression.
 
2012-11-30 04:55:18 PM

grinding_journalist: bim1154: cyks: FTA: Where a single oxycodone pill can run from $80 to $100 ....

A quick stop at my doctors and I'm on my way to Kentucky.

Yea, me too!
/breaks out calculator

There's simply no way this can be true. A drug user will seek out the high, sure, but they won't pay 5x what they could be paying just so they can have 1 tab of Oxy versus a half gram of heroin. The supply of the pills is still greater than the heroin, even with the restrictions.

I'd believe $100/g for pure oxycodone, but I don't know where you'd find that. Anyone paying $80-$100 for a single pill of ANYTHING is either retarded, or a high school student.


Around here (NC) the normal rate for a single OC is $1 a mg, so a 80mg pill = $80
 
2012-11-30 05:02:41 PM
johnny queso

Bullrider? So in addition to tending toward addiction you are a crazy bastard.

We're you any good?

/from cheyenne and love bullriding.
//watching

I was o.k. but far from being able to say I was championship material. I made the buzzer on a regular basis but others scored higher than me. Luck of the draw.

The thing I can say is I was riding bulls before they started wearing body armor and helmets. The other good thing about rough stock riders.... pussy, pussy, pussy and so much pussy you felt like a God.

in my memory, charles sampson was one of the first to wear a helmet after getting his face collapsed in front of ronald reagan. dont remember why he was riding a bull in front of ronald reagan.

rule of thumb from my youth- dont get in bar fights with bull riders or chuck wagon drivers.

sorry for the threadjack.


I was riding from late 60s (high school rodeos) to about 1978 or there bouts. I think I stopped following rodeos around 81 or so. If I'm not mistaken, right after Lane Frost got killed is when the body armor came into play and then I think after that the hockey helmets.

I'm sure that at some point I may have to find some way to reduce the kinds of aches and pains I have now, but as it stands now, as long as I am moving around, it's bearable.

Not sure about your experiences but once a year my one buddy (x-saddle bronc) and my brother (calf roper and bull dogging) get together and relive our legendary days of yore. I'm sure we are still banned from the "Vagabond Motel" in Roschelle, Illinois if it's still open.
 
2012-11-30 05:08:55 PM

DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.


Yeah, I have to get a monthly script that could also land my doctor in trouble if I was doctor shopping. So I had to provide all kinds of documentation and answer a barrage of questions (including about all past medications which I took and why they weren't effective, when I had been first diagnosed, every doctor I had since the diagnosis and what I had been prescribed by each of them and how much, what I was doing in regards to my behavior that could possibly limit the amount I would need to take) before he wrote a script.

I wouldn't expect any less from him, and if I couldn't answer his questions (with documentation from my previous doctor) he probably wouldn't have given me a script that first visit, as was his right - and I would have understood that. Hell, sucks for me, but I completely understand why.

It sucks if you don't have the time to see patients all that long or develop a relationship with them, but damn, if they're coming in asking for Percocet and you don't have a history of treating that patient? Why would you write it (unless you're in an urgent care / ER setting where you don't have access to patient history)? If you do your due diligence as a doctor, how can you be held liable?

Hell, I have still undiagnosed random bouts of incredibly intense pain (undiagnosed after a ER visit, CAT, Ultrasound, two specialists, and X-Ray, and two doctors later - it's not killing me yet (I hope) and I can't afford any more "we don't know what it is that literally floored you from pain"). My past doctor gave me a Vicodin script that I would take as needed (wasn't often, but when it was bad it was really bad), current doctor wants me to keep a detailed log of certain activities so he can rule out other causes without breaking out more procedures or hitting me up with pain meds. If I was a junkie I somewhat doubt I'd have the patience to do that.

/honest questions
//and just because heroin is on the streets doesn't mean people aren't going to be taking pills whenever they can source them
 
2012-11-30 05:09:04 PM

shroomgirl34: DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.

In all seriousness, what should those of us in real constant pain do? I was diagnosed with one of those made up diseases (first they said lupus then Grave's disease then rheumatoid arthritis then fibromyalgia then settled on scleroderma pfft whatever) so the doctors they kept sending me to "specialist" all wanted to put me on all this horrific medicine that would potentially make me blind or suicidal or have liver failure or you know, DIE. And by refusing to take any of that crap they say they can't treat me because I am an unwilling patient. WHATEVER ... all I want is something to make the pain go away so I can work. Mostly it is ok with OTC stuff but a half a hydro and getting to sleep makes a big difference when you are working seven 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time. Now it's so bad I have been escorted out simply for mentioning "joint pain". That's all it took, appointment over, we don't waste our time on pain patients. Sigh ...


Have you tried Cymbalta? My girlfriend used to get cortisol shots for fibromyalgia in her shoulder. It's been years since then with no reoccurance of pain, so it sems to really work for her.
 
2012-11-30 05:17:38 PM

Tenatra: Now I used to hang out with a few heroin junkies and I've NEVER even heard them mention snorting it. Does anyone actually do that?
I've only seen them smoke or inject it.


I've never heard of anyone smoking it, but I did have a friend who snorted it in college. Sigh. He's okay now, managed to kick his whatever-opiates-he-stumbled-onto habit just before graduation and has been fine since. Injecting it was a line that he simply wouldn't cross, and that plus the fact that he never had a steady connection probably helped keep it in check.

Had a friend of a friend who moved from inhaling to injecting. He just got out of rehab and from what I've heard is doing alright (he actually checked himself *back* into rehab a few months after the first round because he was seeing the signs that he might relapse - probably a good thing).
 
2012-11-30 05:21:07 PM

Stibium: shroomgirl34: DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet. .... Have you tried Cymbalta? My girlfriend used to get cortisol shots for fibromyalgia in her shoulder. It's been years since then with no reoccurance of pain, so it sems to really work for her.

No, I am too afraid of all the side effects, I've seen too many friends have horrific problems after taking some of those medications, I'm j ust joping I can work as much as I can before the symptoms get too bad

 
2012-11-30 05:24:58 PM

A Terrible Human: tricycleracer: Maybe original-recipe Four Loko could have saved us from this scourge.

That doesn't help when you live in a dry town that has fark all to do. Maybe if these little shiathole towns didn't try to kill people via boredom people wouldn't want to get high all the time.


Dear mother of fark, THIS.
 
2012-11-30 05:33:03 PM
This pretty much follows the plot of Oxy-Morons, a decent indy film. It's available on Netflix streaming.
 
2012-11-30 05:36:58 PM
I have chronic pain as a result of a constellation of adverse reactions to an antibiotic. If fluoroquinolone antobiotics were treated like controlled substances instead of handed out like candy every time someone sneezes, I would be in no need of pain killers and not have been forced to spend the last 1.7 years in agonizing non-stop pain unable to work and staring at the wall. As another result of being crippled by Cipro, I've had to move back to Ohio from California. In California, it was relatively easy to get the medication I need to keep my pain at a "tolerable" level. Here, they refuse to give you a recurring script, don't pass messages on the doctors and the doctors, themselves, are wildly ignorant about the side effects drugs like fluoroquinolone antibiotics commonly cause. Naproxen made all my nerve pain worse and made me feel like I was high on crack for 18 hours straight. Cymbalta also increased my nerve pain and threw me into what I believe was the beginning of a manic episode. Acetaminophen decreases the body's stores of L-Glutathione thereby increasing joint pain so you'd have to be a fool to take it or anything containing it for joint problems. NSAIDs and steroids interfere with natural swelling which promotes healing and is required for full healing. All of these things are garbage and cause much worse problems than they may potentially and temporarily help with. My ex is a heroin addict and devolved into being a horrible human being. However, making it difficult for people in actual pain to get medication which makes their lives only tolerable does nothing to stop junkies from scoring fentanyl or bricks of xanax. This game is rigged as backwardly as the media producers refusing to provide paid on demand streaming content to punish pirates; it does nothing to stop illegal practices and only punishes the legitimate customers.
 
2012-11-30 05:42:26 PM
Wow, who could ever foresee something like that happening?
 
2012-11-30 05:52:15 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: It depends on whether you have a realistic definition of failure. I don't think there's any doubt that if pain pills were 50 cents a pop on every street corner that far more high school kids would be strung out on narcotics. Just because it hasn't eliminated a problem doesn't mean it hasn't helped. We still have murders, that doesn't mean laws against murder are a "failure".


Please cite sources that even begin to suggest this would happen. In every country where drugs have been wholesale legalised not only has their been a dramatic reduction in drug related crime (muggings to fund a fix type not just dealing) but also in consumption; Portugal had a major problem when it legalised everything... the rehab programs couldn't take that many people hitting them at once.

The American 'War on Drugs' is working as well as your 'War on Alcohol' did in the 20's... I mean that one worked out really well for ya and I'm glad to see that America as a country does not consume a single drop of... ohh... wait....

Prohibition doesn't work, it sends the wrong message to the wrong people. It tells them that this is risky and dangerous (even if it isn't actually dangerous or risky). Legalising drugs makes them boring.

Besides which the little war you lot have been fighting is tearing apart several South American countries; Mexico being one of them.
 
2012-11-30 05:57:55 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.

Yeah, I have to get a monthly script that could also land my doctor in trouble if I was doctor shopping. So I had to provide all kinds of documentation and answer a barrage of questions (including about all past medications which I took and why they weren't effective, when I had been first diagnosed, every doctor I had since the diagnosis and what I had been prescribed by each of them and how much, what I was doing in regards to my behavior that could possibly limit the amount I would need to take) before he wrote a script.

I wouldn't expect any less from him, and if I couldn't answer his questions (with documentation from my previous doctor) he probably wouldn't have given me a script that first visit, as was his right - and I would have understood that. Hell, sucks for me, but I completely understand why.

It sucks if you don't have the time to see patients all that long or develop a relationship with them, but damn, if the ...


The drug seekers are very good at their game. Doctors get fooled from time to time. As a dentist, patients come in all the time with complaints of toothaches. My regular patients are fine. They're never the problem. It's usually the one-time emergency patients that are the issue. With these patients, you can usually weed out the people truly in need of help vs. the drug seekers. A person states they have pain on a particular tooth, you look at it and see the obvious reason for the pain (decay, tooth fracture, etc). Unfortunately, I'm not perfect and I can get fooled. People lie on their health history form. You sit down and talk with the patient. They give you all the right buzzwords and symptoms. Unfortunately, dentistry (like other professions) isn't so cut and dry. Luckily, in my field, it's usually enough pain meds for a day or two and a referral to a specialist.

I do have all the proper documentation to support my reasons for writing a prescription. I just hate getting that phone call with the pharmacist stating, "You know, Joe Blow has three other prescriptions for Vicodin already". I don't like being fooled. I'm not saying this is a regular occurrence, maybe once a year, if that.

Am I in danger of losing my license for writing a prescription? Probably not. However, there has been a crackdown on narcotics prescriptions and no doctor wants any attention on them. I need my DEA license to practice properly and manage post-op pain from certain procedures. I'd like to keep that license free and clear of any problems.
/I would hate to be a pain management specialist.
//They have it rough.
 
2012-11-30 06:12:12 PM
All the cool hillbillies are going for kratom instead of heroin.
 
2012-11-30 06:12:32 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: but if i did the same thing and ended up in jail for assault i'd have an alcohol problem


Well sure.

Included in the definition for not only addictions but plenty of other mental problems and "disorders" as well is the part about it having an adverse impact on your life. It's not only substance abuse that has that clause in.

If you can't drink three beers without getting in a fight, that means you have a drinking problem at three beers and should probably avoid drinking your three beers when around other people. I don't have a terrible problem with that, really.

Anything to do with the brain is going to show individual variation.

DubyaHater: I do have all the proper documentation to support my reasons for writing a prescription. I just hate getting that phone call with the pharmacist stating, "You know, Joe Blow has three other prescriptions for Vicodin already". I don't like being fooled. I'm not saying this is a regular occurrence, maybe once a year, if that.


Being fooled is never a fun experience. I can see how people would get bitter over it, no one likes that feeling of being taken for a mark.
 
2012-11-30 06:14:58 PM

johnny queso: bim1154: R.A.Danny: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

We might just be related.

I know my doctor on a personal level as well. It would probably be fairly easy for me to get some good stuff on occasion, but I am fully aware that I have what I call an "addiction gene". I have some pretty good aches and pains from my bull riding days, but to date I have avoided everything stronger than 500mg naproxen and that shiat seizes me up if I take more than 2 a day for 2 consecutive days, so I don't.

Bullrider? So in addition to tending toward addiction you are a crazy bastard.

We're you any good?

/from cheyenne and love bullriding.
//watching


favorited as a Wyoming (or once was) Farker
 
2012-11-30 06:29:04 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I've never heard of anyone smoking it


It's just like smoking oxy: The casing to a pen, tin foil and a lighter. I guess I've never seen it in a pure powder form though, the stuff I've seen is somewhat sticky.
 
2012-11-30 06:46:31 PM
Seems like everyone I grew up with is an addict. It's either this sort of crap or the opiate of the masses.
 
2012-11-30 06:55:22 PM

Tenatra: StreetlightInTheGhetto: I've never heard of anyone smoking it

It's just like smoking oxy: The casing to a pen, tin foil and a lighter. I guess I've never seen it in a pure powder form though, the stuff I've seen is somewhat sticky.


well gosh darn tootin
try "kratom" it's the "in" thing to do
and it's even illegal in some places cause it causes dependance
like nicotine
or even coffee
 
2012-11-30 07:00:14 PM
Years ago I got blood poisoning from an abscessed tooth after a crown fell off and I didn't have the means to see a dentist. After two days of taking OTC Ibuprofen it stopped helping and I went to the ER. After waiting six hours the doc looked in my mouth and said there was no sign of infection. He also added "we don't give drugs out, see a dentist." So I went home and took way too many Ibuprofen and tried to go to sleep only to wake up with a massive pounding in my jaw. So I went back to the same ER and another doc looked at it and said the same thing, except she gave me a shot of Lydocaine. Which of course only wore off in a few hours.

The following morning my jaw had swollen up to where it looked like I had a golf ball in my cheek and I went back to the same ER and guess what? This is a public hospital connected to a state university with a dental school and they have two fully equipped dental exam rooms right there in the ER. So they make an appointment for me to go to their maxiofacial clinic four days later. By then the swelling was so bad my face looked ghastly. When the doc examined me he found that I had this red line running from my jaw to my heart and started barking orders to the other staff. He then gave me a form to sign and began administering anesthesia. When I woke up the tooth was out and they had cut a hole in the bottom of my jaw to let about 8 oz of puss drain, and I spent the next five days in that hospital getting anti-biotic infusion. When I was discharged they presented me with a $24,000 bill. If I hadn't been so buzzed from all the pain pills they had given me I would have freaked out. I was just happy to be alive.

All I wanted was for them to pull the damn tooth, I never once asked them for any sort of medication. At the time I didn't realize it but this hospital had a big problem with people coming in scamming for pain meds. I thought they were denying me treatment because they were just being cheap. But in hindsight I can see it would have cost them a whole lot less had they just pulled the tooth. I got the bill waived after discussing all that with the people in the billing office.

But it sure pissed me off that I came so close to dying all because some jackwagon thinks all people without the ability to pay a dentist are drug addicts. The whole drug warrior crowd can fark right off as far as I'm concerned.
 
2012-11-30 07:01:51 PM

Vaneshi: Please cite sources that even begin to suggest this would happen. In every country where drugs have been wholesale legalised not only has their been a dramatic reduction in drug related crime (muggings to fund a fix type not just dealing) but also in consumption; Portugal had a major problem when it legalised everything... the rehab programs couldn't take that many people hitting them at once.


Um, Portugal didn't "legalize everything". Drug possession and use is still against the law, just not a major crime including a prison sentence in some cases. You do realize you need a prescription to get pain pills there right, just like in the US.? You can't just go to the pharmacist and order up a pound of Oxy's for the weekend - just like in the U.S.? Okay, maybe you didn't. Go ahead and read a little about it, instead of repeating what you heard about it on fark, and then get back to us. It's hard to know how to respond to the rest of your post when nothing you just said is true.
 
2012-11-30 08:18:29 PM

snowybunting: [dummidumbwit.files.wordpress.com image 317x307]

It's my life, and it's my wife.


Came here for this! Leaving satisfied.
 
2012-11-30 08:18:54 PM

Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

Sorry to hear that man. I lost my mom and sister that way. All started innocently enough with getting hurt and some surgeries and never went away. Over and over rehab didn't do a thing. Between the two they went thru nearly 60k of my Moms in about 3 yrs. Rough times.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.


I know and that's a damn shame. Its become entirely ridiculous and taken way too far. I know plenty of people in the same boat too and I'll have to include myself. I've got metal parts from head to toe, including both hips. Spinal cord surgeries and nerve damage. I don't want or need a lot, just enough to get comfortable enough to sleep. Pain clinics just want to sell you farkin' injections that don't work. That's what started my sister down her path. She had great insurance and made big bucks as a critical care cardiac nurse working for the hospital that ran the pain clinic, As soon as a date came around that insurance would allow and injection she had an appt and every month she had her prescriptions. When she finally said the injections really weren't helping she was labeled an addict and dismissed. They don't make enough money writing prescriptions to pay anesthesiologists since its a goddamn specialty now. Yeah of course injecting steroids around a nerve takes skill, but the people I know say it doesn't do much good. The only good is for the hospital or clinic when they bill the fark out your insurance for it. Nothing pisses me off more than to see vulnerable people, young and old and disabled, being taken advantage of by someone welding that much power. War on drugs against people who need it is more like it.

/ Fark 'em. I don't need it that bad. I'll figure something else out
//It's just a scam and another reason to fix healthcare.
///Sorry for the rant, but when I see comments like these guys made it hits home and really pisses me off
 
2012-11-30 08:32:05 PM
back in my younger years,i did heroin from time to time and it was a great buzz,but didnt last anywhere near 24 hours,5 or 6 at the most.diladid as well.but i always knew it wasnt something you could do on a regular basis as it would lead to a habit.knew a lot of folks who went down that path and all of them are dead now. mostly liver failures,didnt have the aids problem back then or at least it wasnt recognized at the time. i do know that hard core users will take whatever they can get. back then,there was a mixture of pills called "t's and blue's that some would take that had nearly the same effect. yes,i tried them. was kinda like an opiate high.
 
2012-11-30 08:41:22 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Lunaville: I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.

It's more of a need to self-medicate. Opiate addicts can be perfectly functional in society. It's the lack of a clean, cheap, and and reliable opium source that does all the damage.


How many opiate addicts do you actually know? Most of the ones I know are miserable and disabled, and it's somewhat unclear if they need the narcotics because they have a disabling condition, or if they have a disabling condition because they need an easy way to get their drugs.

Of course, we may have a different definition for "perfectly functional". The ones I know aren't sticking up Walgreeens as long as they can get their scripts.
 
2012-11-30 08:46:29 PM
Just stop with War On American Citizens already. Just unlock the pharmacy. Period. Want to get high on medical heroin (yes, it's evderywhere else just not here)? Get hot. Like some vicodin for big cleaning days? Head on over to Walgreens. Want some adderal to help with that lard ass? Motor on over to CVS. Have a legit medical need for the pain pills, antibiotics, blood pressure pills etc? Get a chit (prescription) from your doctor and get the drugs for 1/2 price and even covered under insurance. No chit? You pay. Had that illness, injury etc. before and know what the doc is going to give you? Save a buck on M.D. fees and just get the meds. Let the M.D. use his time to actually help someone who needs it.

All that extra money from OTC drug sales? It should be split 4 ways. 25% to the retailer for his new paper work, 25% tax to support inspection etc. 25% manufacturer profit (offset real need discounts) 25% rehab superfund. Watch enough friends and family pay a real consequence for a change drug use will moderate on its own.

Employers will still be free to mandate only non-recreational use of drugs. Just like some treat nicotine like drugs now. If you want a safety critical job like police, EMS, driver you may have to abstain.

Doing drugs doesn't make you a criminal any more than eating carrots makes you a scientist or smoking cigars makes you a deer poacher. Engaging in criminal activity makes you a criminal.

Laws of prohibition, support of laws of prohibition is anti-freedom, anti-civil rights anti-american.
 
2012-11-30 09:05:22 PM

simon_bar_sinister: Just stop with War On American Citizens already. Just unlock the pharmacy. Period. Want to get high on medical heroin (yes, it's evderywhere else just not here)? Get hot. Like some vicodin for big cleaning days? Head on over to Walgreens. Want some adderal to help with that lard ass? Motor on over to CVS. Have a legit medical need for the pain pills, antibiotics, blood pressure pills etc? Get a chit (prescription) from your doctor and get the drugs for 1/2 price and even covered under insurance. No chit? You pay. Had that illness, injury etc. before and know what the doc is going to give you? Save a buck on M.D. fees and just get the meds. Let the M.D. use his time to actually help someone who needs it.

All that extra money from OTC drug sales? It should be split 4 ways. 25% to the retailer for his new paper work, 25% tax to support inspection etc. 25% manufacturer profit (offset real need discounts) 25% rehab superfund. Watch enough friends and family pay a real consequence for a change drug use will moderate on its own.

Employers will still be free to mandate only non-recreational use of drugs. Just like some treat nicotine like drugs now. If you want a safety critical job like police, EMS, driver you may have to abstain.

Doing drugs doesn't make you a criminal any more than eating carrots makes you a scientist or smoking cigars makes you a deer poacher. Engaging in criminal activity makes you a criminal.

Laws of prohibition, support of laws of prohibition is anti-freedom, anti-civil rights anti-american.


Stop making sense.
 
2012-11-30 09:20:57 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: me society. Listen, Society, if you were more enriching, fulfilling and lucrative, people wouldn't need to "do drugs" to erase the pain and fill the void.


I think we all have a bacon-shaped hole in our soul.
 
2012-11-30 09:32:21 PM

DrBreRuthlessVillain: ThrobblefootSpectre: I do however disagree with the "legalize everything" crowd. I think that's naive and would be socially disastrous. Unfortunately, many people who repeat the "drug war is a failure" rhetoric fall into the latter category.

Minimal snark intended here, but if you're able to say that legalizing everything would be "socially disastrous," then you must have a special ability to see the future that the rest of us--even on the "legalize everything" side of the argument--lack. If I had that ability I'd be busy picking lottery numbers and enjoying the winnings instead of wasting the workday on Fark, but I digress.

The point of legalizing everything, at least for me, is a matter of principle. Would legalization be a "disaster" for society? I don't pretend to know that with any real certainty, but what I do know is that a society that tolerates laws that make contraband out of certain substances is, in effect, an open air prison colony. I support legalization because it's the right thing to do and a good starting point considering what an authoritarian shiatshow prohibition has been. I don't doubt that some people's lives will be disasters post-legalization, but I can only really say that with any certainty because the existing laws haven't done a thing to prevent it in the here and now. One thing is certain: it will still be an imperfect world post-legalization; it's just that do-gooders might be able to channel their efforts a little more productively once the artificial (legal) problems are eliminated.

Start by doing the right thing, then address the problems that remain.


THIS.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences."
― P.J. O'Rourke
 
2012-11-30 11:34:53 PM

megarian: But that wouldn't even kind of work. At all.


ANy dead junkie is a good junkie.
 
2012-12-01 06:30:06 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Um, Portugal didn't "legalize everything". Drug possession and use is still against the law, just not a major crime including a prison sentence in some cases. You do realize you need a prescription to get pain pills there right, just like in the US.? You can't just go to the pharmacist and order up a pound of Oxy's for the weekend - just like in the U.S.? Okay, maybe you didn't. Go ahead and read a little about it, instead of repeating what you heard about it on fark, and then get back to us. It's hard to know how to respond to the rest of your post when nothing you just said is true.


Except it did. And you're a liar. And who's talking about Oxycotin here? Only you. Nobody else.

Go back under your rock you daft bastard.
 
2012-12-01 11:37:35 AM
Jon iz teh kewl:

an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Until he passes out in an important meeting with a big customer and gets fired. Or until his wife finds somebody handsomer, younger, stupider and richer, then it becomes an excuse for divorce.
 
2012-12-01 11:39:13 AM

Tenatra: Jon iz teh kewl:

an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.


Um, I believe your sarcasm meter needs recalibrating, that Jon was talking about the label "alcoholic." You know, as in "the map is not the territory."
 
2012-12-01 12:03:14 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Tenatra: Jon iz teh kewl:

an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Spend some time around heavy alcoholics and watch their withdrawals, they can't function without it.

i used to drink about 3-6 beers every night to fall asleep. i quit like 11 months later and had no withdrawal symptoms


Although I'm not a properly degreed, certified and peer-monitored expert, it's my impression that except for the very unlucky rarity, actual physical addiction to alcohol takes a few years to develop -- if it happens at all. Of course when I think about withdrawal from physical addiction to alchohol what comes to mind is a bad case of the shakes, convulsions and DTs: there are many other possible symptoms (link), a lot of which might be attributed to something else. It could be that people sometimes withdraw from alcohol with symptoms so mild they think it's just the flu or something.

Most of the people I've known and heard about who quit drinking struck me as being either non-habituated heavy users (who can quit any time) or psychologically but not physically dependent (who can quit pretty easily any time they make up their mind to). I have heard of people who got bad DTs, had seizures or even died from withdrawal, but what I hear more is just that quitters miss their booze, are a little nervous and short-tempered and have trouble getting to sleep at first, which happen to me when deprived of an Internet connection. (I doubt anybody can really get physically addicted to the World Wide Web without a direct hard-wired neural hookup.)

So my opinion resembles Jon's, that someone gets labelled "alcoholic" because somebody disapproves of his drinking or behavior when he's drunk, regardless of what's actually going on with the actual person. Maybe he just gets drunk as an excuse to beat his wife, maybe his wife got Born Again and finds that disapproving of any drinking at all is part of what that label means, or maybe he got busted for DUI and found that if he volunteered for AA the judge would suspend his sentence.

Be that as it may, I'm never going to move to a dry county; drinking is too much fun to give up, regardless of how easily I might do it. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it.)
 
2012-12-01 12:16:30 PM
Tenatra:

My habit was nightly but I have however had friends that needed it right when they woke up. Withdrawal looks ugly and it was a big motivator for me to get away from it before I fell deeper. For them if they didn't start drinking their bottles right when they woke up it would lead to convulsions and vomiting.

Yeah but how many of those hard-core cases were there? Were all the "alcohol abusers" you knew like that or only some? Two of my buddies back in Louisville and one roommate in Baltimore started drinking as soon as they got up, right after morning coffee if they bothered with that, but most of the drinkers I know wait till evening and then don't get so drunk that they can't walk a straight line.

I'm beginning to think that AA might be partly right: maybe some people are born with a heightened propensity to get physically addicted to alcohol, while most drinkers, even most "heavy" drinkers, just really like the stuff.

The problem I have with the label is when you start calling everybody who usually has two glasses of wine with dinner "alcoholic." In France they call that "over 16."
 
2012-12-01 12:35:03 PM

Fentanyl Bomb: A fentanyl bomb has hit Appalachia. Not surprised that Heroin is close behind.

In my day it was something you used to dislodge Chechnyan separtists from theatres.

/adjusts opioid onion


I'd heard that was a public attempt at aerosolizing opiods. Poor bastards. Any links?
 
2012-12-01 12:39:56 PM

Dirtybird971: is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.


Are you suggesting heroin migrates?
 
2012-12-01 12:45:01 PM
I don't know about the bigger cities, but here, oxy is $10/mg.

/got a friend working at the county jail
//hookers price their tricks according to what pills they want to buy
///knows WAY too much about what hookers charge for bj/hj/regular sex/anal
 
2012-12-01 12:54:09 PM

Tenatra: Tenatra:

I felt like I needed it at night but I was able to quit.

I should add that even though I've been away from alcohol for close to 2 1/2 years (aside from having 1 beer with dinner every 3 months). I want to drink really bad if it comes up in conversation. Oh damn you are all drinkin at the house tonight? I know not to do hard liquor because I'll have 1 drink, then it leads to another. BAM! Crazy drunk me makes enters the room and I won't be back until the next day after I pass the fark out.


See, that's not me. I don't know what not drinking every day till I was 42 (2005) has to do with it if anything, but I've always been able to stop drinking before I get that drunk. Indeed sometimes I have to work to get very drunk at all.
 
2012-12-01 04:40:15 PM

The One True TheDavid: Jon iz teh kewl:

an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal

Until he passes out in an important meeting with a big customer and gets fired. Or until his wife finds somebody handsomer, younger, stupider and richer, then it becomes an excuse for divorce.


but if he passes out in an important meeting it won't be because of alcohol, cause nobody drinks before work :)
 
2012-12-02 08:28:20 AM
The clinical definition of alcoholism is someone whose alcohol consumption interferes with his life.

If he either gets violent or it somehow affects his relationship with his spouse...
If he gets arrested for DUI or public intox...
If his job performance suffers...
If he sex life falters...
...

Oddly enough what isn't in the clinical definition of alcohol is the amount or frequency of consumption.
The once every six months binge drinker is much of an alcoholic as the guy who starts with beer for breakfast.
 
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