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(Lexington Herald Leader)   Thanks to the War On Pain Pills, now real hillbillies are using real heroin   (kentucky.com) divider line 217
    More: Ironic, Kentucky, Kentucky State Police, heroin, Ohio River, White House Office, oxycodone, Appalachia  
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8697 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2012 at 11:10 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-30 12:52:38 PM  

distopianDream: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

Ha, I know a "Christian" woman that's always on pain meds for one of her many ailments. In her case though I think it's because she wants attention for the ailments not the high. I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.


Sounds like my brothers MIL. she won't allow alcohol on her house cause drinking is a sin, but keeps a pharmacology book on her kitchen counter to make sure all the pills she takes won't interact.

Valium with her coffee every morning.
 
2012-11-30 12:57:09 PM  

mcreadyblue: distopianDream: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

Ha, I know a "Christian" woman that's always on pain meds for one of her many ailments. In her case though I think it's because she wants attention for the ailments not the high. I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.

Sounds like my brothers MIL. she won't allow alcohol on her house cause drinking is a sin, but keeps a pharmacology book on her kitchen counter to make sure all the pills she takes won't interact.

Valium with her coffee every morning.


I remember my grandmother and mother always had at least 3 flavors of valium in their little shoeboxes.
 
2012-11-30 12:57:18 PM  
This article has reassured me that everyone involved in drug prohibition is either completely full of sh*t, or has suffered major brain damage.

"We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

If you're that stupid you should probably apply for disability benefits and some assisted-living before you drown in a glass of water.

heroin can cost as little as $15 to $20 for a hit that will give the user the same high for 24 hours

You can't just copy and paste your scaremongering drug "facts" interchangeably. Heroin isn't super-meth, a heroin high lasts a few hours.

So and so's kid died, chat with the medical examiner, same old media scare piece, stay vigilant citizens. We will win this drug war any day now.
 
2012-11-30 12:57:22 PM  
For some reason I misread the headline as "War On Owls".
 
2012-11-30 01:04:50 PM  

DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.


In all seriousness, what should those of us in real constant pain do? I was diagnosed with one of those made up diseases (first they said lupus then Grave's disease then rheumatoid arthritis then fibromyalgia then settled on scleroderma pfft whatever) so the doctors they kept sending me to "specialist" all wanted to put me on all this horrific medicine that would potentially make me blind or suicidal or have liver failure or you know, DIE. And by refusing to take any of that crap they say they can't treat me because I am an unwilling patient. WHATEVER ... all I want is something to make the pain go away so I can work. Mostly it is ok with OTC stuff but a half a hydro and getting to sleep makes a big difference when you are working seven 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time. Now it's so bad I have been escorted out simply for mentioning "joint pain". That's all it took, appointment over, we don't waste our time on pain patients. Sigh... So frustrating.
~~~~aaaaand back to lurking ha
 
2012-11-30 01:05:10 PM  
"Heroin didn't show up in federal drug seizure statistics until 2006"

So what was DEA doing with the boodle before then?
 
2012-11-30 01:09:01 PM  

basemetal: DubyaHater: Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.

Yep, and now we have been put into the position to have "the talk" with that patient. That talk is seldom a nice quiet conversation. I hate being put in that position. We also have a way to look people up on the state narcotics bureau list. Insurance companies also send us letters about people.

/it's not always who you think it would be
//most time, you're not fooling anyone
///it's our license on the line, not yours.


I feel bad for pharmacists as well. I wouldn't want to be put in the position of saying "I'm sorry, but we can't fill this prescription because of your prescription history". I don't like getting that phone call from the pharmacist because I know you guys are on the front lines.
 
2012-11-30 01:09:11 PM  

Dirtybird971: "We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?" Mark said.

Pay attention! They just said it.

is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.


I was told years ago that Buffalo/Rochester are heroin hubs as well, though this was all hearsay. I believe it though; Bill Johnson royally screwed Rochester up for a decade and the gang violence got a lot worse during that time. So I could totally see that being related to increased heroin trade in the city. I've also noticed during my time in the southern tier that a LOT of people get arrested for possession with intent to distribute during routine traffic stops on the highway.
 
2012-11-30 01:09:46 PM  
I purposely didn't fill my script for painkillers after my root canal and dental implant both to balance the scales a bit in KY in regards to drug abuse.
 
2012-11-30 01:12:32 PM  

vudukungfu: nekom: My solution: Treat substance abuse as a public health issue rather than a criminal one.

My solution: Hancuff them to cots bolted to the floor. Give them water and bread. And when they've been clean for 3 months, they can leave jail.
If you catch them using agian, repeat. No coddle drugs. Just cold turket.
fark them. they bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting in to.
Fark junkies all right to hell.


...opiate withdrawal is incredibly painful and can kill you.

After you quit (or stop taking them... However you want to look at it) you can feel like you have an extremely bad flu for weeks.

Being a junkie is bad. It makes people bad sometimes.

Getting a junkie to quit by strapping them to a cot will do absolutely nothing except for maybe kill them.

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them and I agree with you in theory.

But that wouldn't even kind of work. At all.
 
2012-11-30 01:12:45 PM  

violentsalvation: This article has reassured me that everyone involved in drug prohibition is either completely full of sh*t, or has suffered major brain damage.

"We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

If you're that stupid you should probably apply for disability benefits and some assisted-living before you drown in a glass of water.

heroin can cost as little as $15 to $20 for a hit that will give the user the same high for 24 hours

You can't just copy and paste your scaremongering drug "facts" interchangeably. Heroin isn't super-meth, a heroin high lasts a few hours.

So and so's kid died, chat with the medical examiner, same old media scare piece, stay vigilant citizens. We will win this drug war any day now.


I think what they meant is that you can get a 20 bag of 'that heron' which can keep someone with a moderate tolerance high for 24-48 hours.

On a personal note, I don't mess with opiates because I want the morphine to work if I end up in the hospital for major trauma. The tolerance buildup for opiods is ridiculous.
 
2012-11-30 01:17:20 PM  
Dreyelle:

FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?


I think they were hoping people would turn to Jesus. People tell me there ain't much else to do there.



Lunaville: I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.

Some people do need to destroy themselves, unfortunately. Anyway, the article said the smack was "imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America." That leads me to believe it's "Black Tar" from Mexico (or the brown powder made from cutting that with lactose or some other white powder), instead of the "normal" form of white powder heroin from Central Asia. In the past few years there's been a lot of talk in the regional media about Black Tar, including attributing its presence to "illegal immigrants" plotting to pollute our boldily fluids.

So what happened to old-fashioned white powder heroin anyway? Is it still around in the really big cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.)?


(Begin blathering rant:) By the way, yesterday I went to do an "Intake" at a psychiatric clinic, filling out forms etc., so I can keep getting the Wellbutrin XL and Celexa that I've become used to these past few years. I was a little dismayed that they required me to aswer questions about recent illegal/illict drug use (all no, dammit) and piss in a cup but I did it anyway, then one form contained a clause I was expected to agree to and initial: something like "I agree to come in for random drug tests on demand."

Of course I blew my stack. In writing and in person I informed the staff there that in the first place I'm there for Wellbutrin and Celexa, neither of which was a Controlled Substance the last time I checked, and that during a scheduled appointment if the prescriber gives me a good reason for urine or blood tests ("checking for liver damage" or some such) I'll gladly cooperate, but there's no way in hell I'm going to agree to drop everything an come in for a drug test at their beck and call.

First the answer was "Then maybe you don't need to come here then." That pissed me off even more. I pointed out again that Celexa and Wellbutin are not Controlled Substances and said that I'm not going to be seeking Controlled Subvstances there (certainly not after that), then asked again why they would want to test me. Finally, after treating me like I was "being difficult" for five minutes, somebody gave me an answer that made some kind of sense: if they're not prescribing me Controlled Substances then "of course" I won't have to be tested. Okay...

So why didn't they say so in the first place instead of acting like they were going to have me forcibly tased for questioning them? And why do they piss-test everybody trying to sign up for any reason and shove their policy on Controlled Substances at them? It would make more sense if they'd first establish prescribing a Controlled Substance was an issue, then say as "As a condition of giving you a prescription for that we'll want you to piss in a cup and to read, understand and consent to abide by our policy on Controlled Substances as spelled out in this here paper."

Nope, instead they expect everybody coming there for anything to agree to random drug tests right off the bat. They might at least change the wording, something like "I agree that if I'm ever prescribed a Controlled Substance [there] I will come in for random drug tests."

They also make everybody to agree to fill all their prescriptions at the same pharmacy, to stop getting pain pills there if they go elsewhere (such as a pain clinic) and get pain pills, etc. etc. etc. They explain that as part of KY's new "get tough on pill abuse" policy; they haven't yet explained why they insist on shoving this crap at everybody who walks in the door.

They gave me an appoointment about 3 weeks hence, but it would not surprize me if they call to cancel because they think I'll be "disruptive" or something. Like I said, when I questioned this policy their Weeners was to slap me for challenging their authority, that it took about five minutes of back & forth before some employee finally "clarified" that that most likely won't apply to me anyway. The logical answer would have begun with another question: "Do you want us to give you a Controlled Substance?" to which I'd answer in the negative, then they'd say "Oh, so that doesn't apply to you anyway, never mind about it." (Leaving aside the issue of piss tests on demand for anybody, which I told to be tyrannical.)

Any Farker who's bothered to not Ignore me over the past few months has undoubtedly noted that I have "problems with Authority"; if they're not very nice to me when/if I go for my first real appointment I'm going to walk down the street to another psych clinic and see what they have to say for themselves. If nothing else my Family Practice doctor will probably prescribe to get me through the winter: she can be a little bossy but at least she's nice about it and doesn't bother me with intrusive crap that doesn't have anything to do with why I'm there (e.g., that practice has never wanted a drug analysis in the 5 years I've been going).

"There is some shiat I will not eat." It's too bad more people don't draw that line clearly: there is some shiat They should know better than to bring up by now.

Anyway.

/blathering rant
 
2012-11-30 01:17:26 PM  
I'm riding the dragon right now, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies
 
2012-11-30 01:18:04 PM  

shroomgirl34: DubyaHater: StreetlightInTheGhetto: DubyaHater: I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

Because dealing with heroin addiction (addiction issues + added bonus of probably shared needles, heroin cut with ____, etc. issues!) is better? Or you won't have to deal with those ramifications in your office? Jesus.

Here's the problem. It's when they put on a convincing act, I write a prescription, and 60 minutes later the pharmacy calls saying this person had 3 other prescriptions written for him/her that day. It has the potential to affect my license. I don't my career affected because of some drug seeker.
Yes, I feel bad for drug addicts. They need help. There are social problems that could help (addiction clinics, clean needle programs). However, coming into my office and trying to take advantage of me is something I will not tolerate. So get off your high horse and stop trying to paint me as some insensitive prick.

In all seriousness, what should those of us in real constant pain do? I was diagnosed with one of those made up diseases (first they said lupus then Grave's disease then rheumatoid arthritis then fibromyalgia then settled on scleroderma pfft whatever) so the doctors they kept sending me to "specialist" all wanted to put me on all this horrific medicine that would potentially make me blind or suicidal or have liver failure or you know, DIE. And by refusing to take any of that crap they say they can't treat me because I am an unwilling patient. WHATEVER ... all I want is something to make the pain go away so I can work. Mostly it is ok with OTC stuff but a half a hydro and getting to sleep makes a big difference when you are working seven 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time. Now it's so bad I have been escorted out simply for mentioning "joint pain". That's all it took, appointment over, we don't waste our time on pain patients. Sigh... So f ...


If you honestly have bad joint pain, this is the best non-narcotic remedy you could possibly find Link My girlfriend who has pretty bad chronic back pain says it takes the pain away better than oxy, my grandma uses it for her neck pain instead of percocet, I have been using it with like 2 aspirin for my knees. Only bad thing is it's only available to medical marijuana patients in Colorado.

As for the use of Oxy, it can be (ab?)used responsibly. I buy like 2-3 pills a month, it's not addictive because it sucks a lot. I realize that I am in a very small minority of people who could do that and not have the desire to be on them all the time (probably has something to do with actually seeing people in sever opioid withdrawal, it's pretty farking ugly). One of the less talked about things in Obamacare is it provides much greater access to addicts seeking treatment. I'm hoping that it can help those people, because a lot of them don't want to have to take a pill everyday, they just have too.
 
2012-11-30 01:21:52 PM  
When the war on drugs destroys more lives than the actual drugs, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
 
2012-11-30 01:23:00 PM  

impaler: When the war on drugs destroys more lives than the actual drugs, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.


But people who alter their consciousness by consuming substances are inherently evil and must be punished!
 
2012-11-30 01:23:05 PM  

R.A.Danny: BigLuca: Skarekrough:
I've been in to see the Doc twice in the past two years and each time I've walked away with a prescription for Oxycodone. The amount they give me us just ludicrous; a weeks supply for something that will likely start to abate due to treatment in 24 hours or so.

They just can't seem to give me enough of it.

I'm reluctant to take it. Both times I took one dose because I wouldn't be able to sleep with the pain being as bad as it was and then that was it. A few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).

[i269.photobucket.com image 831x456]

Yeah. My Dr. thoroughly believes I should have a bottle of Vicodin around the house just in case my torn rotator cuff, my shredded knees, or my diskless L5 act up. I use about 20 a year. That amount wouldn't last a week with my in-laws.


the VA sends me 180 a month....

Tolerance is a motherfarker.
 
2012-11-30 01:32:29 PM  
Growing your own poppies is a grey legal area. I've seen plenty of gardeners swear it is legal and plenty of LEO types say "we really don't care". I imagine if you're suddenly growing an acre or 5 of Papaver Somniferum you'll probably get a knock on your door to see if you're growing them for ornamentation purposes or not (they're apparently big for arrangements or something).

Thing is growing magic mushrooms is considered to be "manufacture of a controller substance" but opium production only starts, from what I've read, as soon as you've scored the pod. You can make a tea from the dried pods and get a good high from it which makes them as good as mushrooms IMO when it comes to manufacturing a controlled substance. Granted the plant/fungus is doing the work so I don't see how you can accuse a person of manufacturing anything. If all you did was chuck some seeds in an empty lot you're guilty of maybe littering and tresspassing.

Still, to support a serious habit you'd need more than a few acres of land to supply it. For occasion use you'd probably be fine with a handful of plants.

/not that I'd know or anything
 
2012-11-30 01:33:04 PM  
If you honestly have bad joint pain, this is the best non-narcotic remedy you could possibly find Link My girlfriend who has pretty bad chronic back pain says it takes the pain away better than oxy, my grandma uses it for her neck pain instead of percocet, I have been using it with like 2 aspirin for my knees. Only bad thing is it's only available to medical marijuana patients in Colorado.

Dammit man!! I was all happy til I read that last line
 
2012-11-30 01:39:36 PM  
"There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE,

FOR farkS SAKE, LEGALIZE WEED THEN.

Theres just a level of infinite cognitive dissonance required to make a statement like that and still be a part of the war on drugs.

"Well sure, once weve eliminated every other drug, people will be reduced to shooting krokodil and huffing gasoline, theyll all die and the war on drugs will be won, its as easy as that!"

/thats the beautiful part, come winter the gorillas just freeze to death
 
2012-11-30 01:40:07 PM  

shroomgirl34: If you honestly have bad joint pain, this is the best non-narcotic remedy you could possibly find Link My girlfriend who has pretty bad chronic back pain says it takes the pain away better than oxy, my grandma uses it for her neck pain instead of percocet, I have been using it with like 2 aspirin for my knees. Only bad thing is it's only available to medical marijuana patients in Colorado.

Dammit man!! I was all happy til I read that last line


Since it's just lotion and you seem legit I could mail you some. Let me put some email in my profile real quick and you can email me.
 
2012-11-30 01:42:08 PM  

Dreyelle: FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?


They still haven't learned to pick their battles wisely. Pills may be bad, but Heroin is probably worse. At least it's not Meth and Krocodil yet.

A real strategy would involve going after the most harmful drugs the hardest and trying to manage the least harmful. It would probably mean letting marijuana and moonshine become decriminalized. It would also be political suicide because your not "Hard on Crime".
 
2012-11-30 01:43:26 PM  

A Terrible Human: tricycleracer: Maybe original-recipe Four Loko could have saved us from this scourge.

That doesn't help when you live in a dry town that has fark all to do. Maybe if these little shiathole towns didn't try to kill people via boredom people wouldn't want to get high all the time.


Agreed. I blame society. Listen, Society, if you were more enriching, fulfilling and lucrative, people wouldn't need to "do drugs" to erase the pain and fill the void.

/i do drugs.
//if by "drugs" you mean "bacon."
 
2012-11-30 01:43:47 PM  

lewismarktwo: On a personal note, I don't mess with opiates because I want the morphine to work if I end up in the hospital for major trauma. The tolerance buildup for opiods is ridiculous.


No kidding. When I get Vicodin and take it for effect rather than for pain relief taking another one even after ten days or so is like swallowing an M&M for me. I figure this is Cthulhu's way of keeping me from being addicted. And even though I was tempted (and he offered) I stayed the hell away from my husband's Dilaudid after his knee replacement surgery last year. I'd like there to be at least one drug I haven't tried yet.
 
2012-11-30 01:44:27 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: Dreyelle: FTFA: "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

You don't say....

Did they think the replacement would be caffeine?

They still haven't learned to pick their battles wisely. Pills may be bad, but Heroin is probably worse. At least it's not Meth and Krocodil yet.

A real strategy would involve going after the most harmful drugs the hardest and trying to manage the least harmful. It would probably mean letting marijuana and moonshine become decriminalized. It would also be political suicide because your not "Hard on Crime".


That shiat sounds like a god damn nightmare from what I've read of it. I'm always amazed at peoples inner macgyver when it comes to finding a way to get farked up.
 
2012-11-30 01:47:27 PM  
i bet the police wish they would turn to phenazepam or bath salts
 
2012-11-30 01:47:34 PM  
Where are all of these people getting their pain pills? I went into the hospital three days after gallbladder surgery because I was in so much pain I thought I was dying, and they thought I was drug seeking and sent me home, where I writhed on the couch at a level 9.5 on the pain scale for 24 hours. Before the surgery, no one would give me anything either, even though my gallbladder hurt so bad it was hard to walk. Hell, at the same time that my gallbladder was going to explode, I had an ectopic pregnancy, which no one could seem to diagnose except me, and which would regularly drop me to the floor at a level 10. That was considered to just be me trying to get pain pills, too, until they opened me up for the gallbladder and saw that I was hemorrhaging from it.

fark the war on pain pills. My doctors let me suffer in a way that no one should ever have to, just because they were afraid I wanted drugs for recreational use. Even though I had legitimate issues, they let me suffer. I have real anger issues over this.
 
2012-11-30 01:53:16 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: FirstNationalBastard: However, locking up addicts and pretending that's going to solve the problem instead of trying to fix the underlying causes of the addiction that they're probably going to immediately go back to once they get out, especially since they just rotted in prison for essentially no good reason, because we either really like vengeance, or because Prison owners need to make money... that's failure.

I would agree we need more focus on treatment and social root causes. I do however disagree with the "legalize everything" crowd. I think that's naive and would be socially disastrous. Unfortunately, many people who repeat the "drug war is a failure" rhetoric fall into the latter category. If you had just made a comment about addiction treatment to start with, instead of a very soundbitish one liner about "failure" I probably would have just agreed with you.


It would be socially disastrous to the docs who no longer have a monopoly on decent drugs.
 
2012-11-30 02:14:01 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?


nope...there hasn't. waaay too much money in the prison-industrial complex for legalization to happen...especially now.
 
2012-11-30 02:15:01 PM  

stir22: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the war on drugs... has there been a bigger failure in this nation's history?

nope...there hasn't. waaay too much money in the prison-industrial complex for legalization to happen...especially now.


Yes. My sister in law.
 
2012-11-30 02:15:59 PM  

Skarekrough: 'm reluctant to take it. Both times I took one dose because I wouldn't be able to sleep with the pain being as bad as it was and then that was it. A few months later I take a drive down to the local Police Dept to surrender it so it isn't hanging around the house (I have young kids).


This is a terrible idea.
 
2012-11-30 02:22:18 PM  

distopianDream: Ha, I know a "Christian" woman that's always on pain meds for one of her many ailments. In her case though I think it's because she wants attention for the ailments not the high. I honestly want to know why her doctors don't set her up with a psychologist when it's obvious her ailments always prove to be in her head.


money. chronic pain management patients are the most lucrative in a physicians office. they will always pay their bill, always be on time for appointments...as long as they get their Rx.
 
2012-11-30 02:26:29 PM  

FloydA: "There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE, ... "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

I don't understand how officer Smoot can say this and not immediately conclude "therefore, the war on drugs is doomed to be a complete failure and waste of money."

The people who are going to take drugs are going to take drugs no matter what; we aren't going to convince them to stop. If you remove one drug, they will find another, and that new one might be worse. We really have to start treating drug addiction as a health issue, rather than a law enforcement issue. The drug war is costing us too much for no socially useful results.


Extremely much this.

Perhaps defunding the DEA might help solve some of the budget problems.

As for pain pills: I was on Vicodin last year for acute back problems, and I noticed that the pills always have X grams of hydrocodone (the stuff that's actually working) plus a bit of... acetaminophen (i.e. Tylenol, the stuff which at that level of pain is not really doing anything). I asked about that out of curiosity, and was told they put the acetaminophen in it because it will fark up your liver if you abuse the pills, so it's like a built in consequence to prevent people abusing it, or something.

Looking it up now in Wikipedia, it seems there's an actual pain reason to put the acetaminophen in it, but also there is actually a law saying that to remain Schedule III they do have to put some "non-narcotic therapeutic ingredient" in it at a certain percentage, so...

I will say I was in crazy amounts of pain and taking that pill helped it (as in, wow, I can kinda crawl around, and think about something other than pain), my first thought was, I can see why people are desperate to steal these things.

Side effects sucked for me though - really hard to pee and nauseous enough I needed to take Dramamine just to fly my desk at home.

/happily back to being able to manage just with cheap generic ibuprofen from the supermarket
 
2012-11-30 02:33:56 PM  

Skarekrough: Freakish. I've had the opposite experience.

I've been in to see the Doc twice in the past two years and each time I've walked away with a prescription for Oxycodone. The amount they give me us just ludicrous; a weeks supply for something that will likely start to abate due to treatment in 24 hours or so.


Are you upper middle class and white, by any chance?

Sadly enough these things definitely matter when it comes to doctors being happy to prescribe pain medication.
 
2012-11-30 02:41:33 PM  

bim1154: R.A.Danny: bim1154: Lernaeus: R.A.Danny: This is where my Mother in law and two sisters in law are heading. They are a pill popping mess.

I have cousins in the same boat.

The sadness is that I know people with legitimate pain medicine needs that can't get enough pain medication because they've been labeled "drug seekers" by their doctors the DEA.

My sister in law is like another version of Elvis Presley. She takes pills for every farking thing in her imagination and then some. Can't wake up... take a pill, can't go to sleep... take a pill, Can't take a shiat... take a pill, shiat too much... take a pill and the list is long.

We might just be related.

I know my doctor on a personal level as well. It would probably be fairly easy for me to get some good stuff on occasion, but I am fully aware that I have what I call an "addiction gene". I have some pretty good aches and pains from my bull riding days, but to date I have avoided everything stronger than 500mg naproxen and that shiat seizes me up if I take more than 2 a day for 2 consecutive days, so I don't.


Bullrider? So in addition to tending toward addiction you are a crazy bastard.

We're you any good?

/from cheyenne and love bullriding.
//watching
 
2012-11-30 02:43:11 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: I do however disagree with the "legalize everything" crowd. I think that's naive and would be socially disastrous. Unfortunately, many people who repeat the "drug war is a failure" rhetoric fall into the latter category.


Minimal snark intended here, but if you're able to say that legalizing everything would be "socially disastrous," then you must have a special ability to see the future that the rest of us--even on the "legalize everything" side of the argument--lack. If I had that ability I'd be busy picking lottery numbers and enjoying the winnings instead of wasting the workday on Fark, but I digress.

The point of legalizing everything, at least for me, is a matter of principle. Would legalization be a "disaster" for society? I don't pretend to know that with any real certainty, but what I do know is that a society that tolerates laws that make contraband out of certain substances is, in effect, an open air prison colony. I support legalization because it's the right thing to do and a good starting point considering what an authoritarian shiatshow prohibition has been. I don't doubt that some people's lives will be disasters post-legalization, but I can only really say that with any certainty because the existing laws haven't done a thing to prevent it in the here and now. One thing is certain: it will still be an imperfect world post-legalization; it's just that do-gooders might be able to channel their efforts a little more productively once the artificial (legal) problems are eliminated.

Start by doing the right thing, then address the problems that remain.
 
2012-11-30 02:43:32 PM  

itazurakko: /happily back to being able to manage just with cheap generic ibuprofen from the supermarket


This stuff is the shiat for pain. It doesn't last quite as long as the pills, but it kicks in faster than anything else and will take the edge off damn near anything. I use it pretty much exclusively now, pretty much all my pains come and go throughout the day (well, my back and knees are constant, but low enough I don't need to constantly medicate) so I don't need anything that will last more than four hours or so at a pop.
 
2012-11-30 02:50:24 PM  

itazurakko: FloydA: "There's always some type of drug to step up when another gets taken out," said Dan Smoot, law enforcement director of Operation UNITE, ... "We didn't know it was going to be heroin. We knew something was going to replace pills."

I don't understand how officer Smoot can say this and not immediately conclude "therefore, the war on drugs is doomed to be a complete failure and waste of money."

The people who are going to take drugs are going to take drugs no matter what; we aren't going to convince them to stop. If you remove one drug, they will find another, and that new one might be worse. We really have to start treating drug addiction as a health issue, rather than a law enforcement issue. The drug war is costing us too much for no socially useful results.

Extremely much this.

Perhaps defunding the DEA might help solve some of the budget problems.

As for pain pills: I was on Vicodin last year for acute back problems, and I noticed that the pills always have X grams of hydrocodone (the stuff that's actually working) plus a bit of... acetaminophen (i.e. Tylenol, the stuff which at that level of pain is not really doing anything). I asked about that out of curiosity, and was told they put the acetaminophen in it because it will fark up your liver if you abuse the pills, so it's like a built in consequence to prevent people abusing it, or something.

Looking it up now in Wikipedia, it seems there's an actual pain reason to put the acetaminophen in it, but also there is actually a law saying that to remain Schedule III they do have to put some "non-narcotic therapeutic ingredient" in it at a certain percentage, so...

I will say I was in crazy amounts of pain and taking that pill helped it (as in, wow, I can kinda crawl around, and think about something other than pain), my first thought was, I can see why people are desperate to steal these things.

Side effects sucked for me though - really hard to pee and nauseous enough I needed to take Dramamine j ...


I think there was a semi-recent FDA mandate to reduce the amount of acetaminophen in things like that, i dont know about the schedule thing, but i was chatting with the pharmacist for a bit last time i got a pain pill script (root canal), i got 7.5/750 hydro/tylenol, and it said one every four hours, i asked, wouldnt that put me over the daily max dose of tylenol (which is 4g)? The Pharmacist was telling me it doesnt count me sleeping, but that acetaminophen is the leading cause of liver failure nowadays, even more than alcohol. I got 7.5/325 oxy/tylenol the next time, yay. When i take them though i only take half of one every 3 hours instead of a whole one ever 4, even with a claratin the itching is pretty bad, and i dont like being 3 days behind on pooping.
 
2012-11-30 02:58:43 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: itazurakko: /happily back to being able to manage just with cheap generic ibuprofen from the supermarket

This stuff is the shiat for pain. It doesn't last quite as long as the pills, but it kicks in faster than anything else and will take the edge off damn near anything. I use it pretty much exclusively now, pretty much all my pains come and go throughout the day (well, my back and knees are constant, but low enough I don't need to constantly medicate) so I don't need anything that will last more than four hours or so at a pop.


Hm. I'll definitely have to give it a try - for me when I have pain too it's pretty localized in time, and usually I'm wanting something to make it bearable to do (or, start) the therapy exercises I do which actually make the rest of the day good.

Cyno01: The Pharmacist was telling me it doesnt count me sleeping, but that acetaminophen is the leading cause of liver failure nowadays, even more than alcohol.


Interesting. I suspect people who are abusing opiate painkillers probably aren't caring so much about the "see, we put the consequence in it!" bit by the time they get well and truly hooked, so probably contributing to that total...
 
2012-11-30 03:00:52 PM  
A Terrible Human:

I love how they just made everything worse. Now instead of playing spot the meth addict I can play spot the heroin addict. At least the heroin addicts won't look as gross.

And they're much easier to get along with. They'll still steal from you though.
 
2012-11-30 03:01:48 PM  
Couldn't people just, you know, not abuse drugs? They're bad, m'k?
 
2012-11-30 03:05:30 PM  

DrBreRuthlessVillain: Minimal snark intended here, but if you're able to say that legalizing everything would be "socially disastrous," then you must have a special ability to see the future that the rest of us--even on the "legalize everything" side of the argument--lack. If I had that ability I'd be busy picking lottery numbers and enjoying the winnings instead of wasting the workday on Fark, but I digress


Um...........okay.


DrBreRuthlessVillain: The point of legalizing everything, at least for me, is a matter of principle. Would legalization be a "disaster" for society? I don't pretend to know that with any real certainty, but what I do know is that a society that tolerates laws that make contraband out of certain substances is, in effect, an open air prison colony.


Okay, so what about other drugs? Say antibiotics - where we know overuse has very undesirable and serious effects on society as a whole (bacterial resistance). Do you want to have a free for all on ALL drugs? Or just the fun ones? Honest question.

Another complication is that we seem to expect the government to protect us when it comes to "big corporations" selling us unsafe products. Oh noe, this product had a bad side effect, sue sue sue! BUT.... then we expect the government to completely deregulate things which we already know for a fact often have bad effects on people. Which is it? This seems to me like a complete 100% contradiction.

Should corporations be able to market anything, even useless stuff, poorly made stuff, known dangerous stuff? Again, this is an honest question. If we allow companies to all out market products known to be unsafe or kill you, then so be it. But that floodgate is open. I don't think you can say "only unsafe fun drugs should be deregulated, but other bad corporate things stay regulated by the government"

/ps. try a little harder on minimizing the snark. Additional side stories about lottery tickets will probably cause me to dismiss you as a nutjob.cause me
 
2012-11-30 03:12:32 PM  
Marcus Aurelius:

Lunaville: I'm sure the increased supply of heroin has little to nothing to do with our liberating Afghanistan. That said some people seem to have an internal need to destroy themselves.

It's more of a need to self-medicate. Opiate addicts can be perfectly functional in society.


Well, true to a point: there are opiate users who use it as medication, some who use it more or less responsibly for recreation, and there ate those who use it as a weapon against themselves. Same as with alcohol, some users can be functional and some don't even try.


It's the lack of a clean, cheap, and and reliable opium source that does all the damage.

That and a lack of common sense. You do know that when many smack users hear of a new "brand" that's ODing people left & right they can't wait to try it themselves, right? Some'll even try it when they know it's mixed with some kind of poison just to see what the high is like.

While I support legalizing heroin and have nothing against heroin per se, there are some who can't be trusted with anything in any way dangerous. Maybe society should let people do H all they want but stop bringing them back from ODs after the third time. (One guy I know got Narcanned twice in one month; he eventually died when there was nobody around to call 911.)
 
2012-11-30 03:15:48 PM  

nekom: Fear the Clam: Or you can just grow your own poppies.

I wonder if any addict actually ever tried this. And for that matter, at what point does it become illegal? I've seen the seeds for sale (which doesn't demonstrate them to be legal, but suggests they must be), are they even legal to grow as ornamental? Does the point at which you break the law start when they are harvested or scraped or however you get the goo?

Not going to do it, just curious.


Pretty sure you need a buttload of them to make any heroin

/I have poppies in my backyard
 
2012-11-30 03:16:52 PM  

Jument: Couldn't people just, you know, not abuse drugs? They're bad, m'k?


For starters policy would be better off realizing that (1) not all use is abuse (even recreationally) and (2) not all drugs are the same level of risky.

Currently the drug warriors draw some bright line in between alcohol (OK!) and weed (Evil!) and then lump weed in with "all other drugs" and take horror stories from the worst of heroin and meth addicts and call that "the dangers of drugs."

Whereas, the first drug (as in something you consume that noticeably alters your mood to the point of possibly not being able to work efficiently, and is enjoyable) that most people consume isn't weed, it's ALCOHOL. But alcohol is okay, for various historical reasons. (Of course there are certainly plenty of modern teetotalling crusaders who would like to ban alcohol again as well.)

Meanwhile, (1) abuse of pain pills is happening, abuse of Ritalin and adderall is DEFINITELY happening (big on college campuses, apparently) but they're prescription so sort of "okay," and (2) zero-tolerance for alcohol and weed particularly for young people is leading them to try smoking crazier and crazier things with probably worse side effects.

This idea that it needs to be all or nothing, that taking one sip is the same as being an addict, and that all substances behave the same way (because they make you "an addict" and that's just terrible!!! You're going to jump off a building and rip your face off!!!) with the same risks, is the problem.

On the other hand there are people who seem to think that well, if we legalize things no one will have a drug problem, that isn't right either. There are alcoholics and alcohol is legal. But!! For people who DO have an addiction problem (because people can get addicted to all sorts of things, not even just substances either) making some way for them to properly get treatment for it is probably a better way to go, I would think. Lots of people do realize they have a problem, even aside from the hard core problem people whom maybe just plain can't be helped.
 
2012-11-30 03:18:51 PM  

A Terrible Human: tricycleracer:

Maybe original-recipe Four Loko could have saved us from this scourge.

That doesn't help when you live in a dry town that has fark all to do. Maybe if these little shiathole towns didn't try to kill people via boredom people wouldn't want to get high all the time.


Sometimes I wonder why these little towns are there in the first place. In many of them there are no jobs available for most people and some don't even have their own schools; there's almost always a holy roller church there though, and a Wal-Mart 40 miles away by treacherous rural roads. Why not move everybody close to the county seat or biggest nearby town and let the rest of the land go back to forest? Is there any good reason for "Dick Lick, Pop. 87?"
 
2012-11-30 03:19:03 PM  
FTA: "Law enforcement officials in Kentucky and Ohio said the heroin, which is generally snorted or injected in powder form"

Now I used to hang out with a few heroin junkies and I've NEVER even heard them mention snorting it. Does anyone actually do that?
I've only seen them smoke or inject it.

Bunny Deville: fark the war on pain pills. My doctors let me suffer in a way that no one should ever have to, just because they were afraid I wanted drugs for recreational use. Even though I had legitimate issues, they let me suffer. I have real anger issues over this.


Reminds me of a problem I had. I was in excruciating pain after a run when I screwed up my knee, I went to the hospital to be seen. The doctor listened to what I said and did a quick look at my knee. He didn't write me a prescription or a note to be excused from PT, he told me to just go buy some ibuprofen from the store.

Fast forward 4 years when I filed a claim with the VA. I was just seen a couple months ago but the doctor that examined my knee did a thorough look at it, pulling and pushing on it various ways, seeing how I could support myself standing on it/walking and such and even took xrays of it. It turns out that my knee became misaligned in the injury and was causing degenerative wear this whole time. Thank you initial doctor that didn't care, thank you coworkers on a power trip that forced me to continue running on it.
 
2012-11-30 03:20:37 PM  

itazurakko: Jument: Couldn't people just, you know, not abuse drugs? They're bad, m'k?

For starters policy would be better off realizing that (1) not all use is abuse (even recreationally) and (2) not all drugs are the same level of risky.

Currently the drug warriors draw some bright line in between alcohol (OK!) and weed (Evil!) and then lump weed in with "all other drugs" and take horror stories from the worst of heroin and meth addicts and call that "the dangers of drugs."

Whereas, the first drug (as in something you consume that noticeably alters your mood to the point of possibly not being able to work efficiently, and is enjoyable) that most people consume isn't weed, it's ALCOHOL. But alcohol is okay, for various historical reasons. (Of course there are certainly plenty of modern teetotalling crusaders who would like to ban alcohol again as well.)

Meanwhile, (1) abuse of pain pills is happening, abuse of Ritalin and adderall is DEFINITELY happening (big on college campuses, apparently) but they're prescription so sort of "okay," and (2) zero-tolerance for alcohol and weed particularly for young people is leading them to try smoking crazier and crazier things with probably worse side effects.

This idea that it needs to be all or nothing, that taking one sip is the same as being an addict, and that all substances behave the same way (because they make you "an addict" and that's just terrible!!! You're going to jump off a building and rip your face off!!!) with the same risks, is the problem.

On the other hand there are people who seem to think that well, if we legalize things no one will have a drug problem, that isn't right either. There are alcoholics and alcohol is legal. But!! For people who DO have an addiction problem (because people can get addicted to all sorts of things, not even just substances either) making some way for them to properly get treatment for it is probably a better way to go, I would think. Lots of people do realize they have a problem, e ...


an alcoholic isn't an addict to alcohol. he's a violent man that beats his family. someone else who treats their family nicely and drinks the same amount is considered normal
 
2012-11-30 03:22:49 PM  
DubyaHater:

I'm fine with that. I just want the druggies to stop coming into my office and telling me they need pain pills, but are allergic to everything but 10mg Percocet.

I was going to say "Why would anybody bother with Percocet?" but then the Wikipedia article makes me think the Percocet of today is a different formulation from the weak near-placebo my mom took for back ache in 1976. Was there always oxycodone in it?
 
2012-11-30 03:23:03 PM  

ladyfortuna [TotalFark]

Dirtybird971: "We were like, 'Heroin? Where did that come from?" Mark said.

Pay attention! They just said it.

is imported into the United States from Mexico and Central America. It's first going to Illinois, Michigan and Ohio, then migrating across the Ohio River into Kentucky.

I was told years ago that Buffalo/Rochester are heroin hubs as well, though this was all hearsay. I believe it though; Bill Johnson royally screwed Rochester up for a decade and the gang violence got a lot worse during that time. So I could totally see that being related to increased heroin trade in the city. I've also noticed during my time in the southern tier that a LOT of people get arrested for possession with intent to distribute during routine traffic stops on the highway.


I'm in NJ and I used to be addicted. I just went to Newark for mine. But back when I was using a 'friend" of mine had to go to the FL keys and while he was there he went into withdrawl. he looked around for a likely candidate and was able to score there too. This guy said "you come form a heroin "capital" (NJ) and you need me to help you?"
 
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