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(BGR)   For RIM, 2013 is do or die   (bgr.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, rim  
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1960 clicks; posted to Business » on 30 Nov 2012 at 1:19 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



73 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-11-30 10:14:00 AM  
It'll be some job
 
2012-11-30 10:17:48 AM  
I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.
 
2012-11-30 10:20:15 AM  

R.A.Danny: I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.


Theoretically, I guess.

I don't want to throw around phrases like "death-spiral" out there willy-nilly, but RIM hasn't been doing very well for a while now.
 
2012-11-30 10:25:17 AM  

Shostie: R.A.Danny: I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.

Theoretically, I guess.

I don't want to throw around phrases like "death-spiral" out there willy-nilly, but RIM hasn't been doing very well for a while now.


No argument whatsoever. Businesses LOVE Blackberrys and BES though and the promise of control and support of IOS and Android devices in the near future has a lot of shops taking another look.
 
2012-11-30 11:00:22 AM  
die
 
2012-11-30 11:11:27 AM  
I want RIM to survive for whatever reason, but I just can't see myself owning a Blackberry device.
 
2012-11-30 11:20:19 AM  

R.A.Danny: Shostie: R.A.Danny: I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.

Theoretically, I guess.

I don't want to throw around phrases like "death-spiral" out there willy-nilly, but RIM hasn't been doing very well for a while now.

No argument whatsoever. Businesses LOVE Blackberrys and BES though and the promise of control and support of IOS and Android devices in the near future has a lot of shops taking another look.


I still have a Blackberry because we have 2,000 people still on a BES. That number is shrinking daily and when the last one leaves, I'm drop-kicking this goddamn phone over a bridge. This is a company that is so inept they gave me a Playbook for free and I don't use it anymore because it sucks that bad.
 
2012-11-30 11:31:48 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: die


Goddammit! Beat me to it.
 
2012-11-30 11:36:25 AM  
I'm one of the last holdouts and even I'm about to go buy a Samsung or whatever. Sorry RIM it's too late.
 
2012-11-30 12:11:19 PM  
Unless RIM creates some kind of game changer that is on par, or better than an Android or iPhone, they do not stand a chance of ever seeing a single penny from me again.

I honestly do not know what else they can innovate that suddenly makes them more relevant that Google or Apple.
 
2012-11-30 12:57:12 PM  
That preview of their OS doesn't look bad. But it's just another touch pad phone/media device.
 
2012-11-30 01:03:57 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-30 01:26:34 PM  

Endive Wombat: Unless RIM creates some kind of game changer that is on par, or better than an Android or iPhone, they do not stand a chance of ever seeing a single penny from me again.

I honestly do not know what else they can innovate that suddenly makes them more relevant that Google or Apple.


How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support. Bberries are not smartphones, they are phones with a PIM and a real kb. That's all I want in a phone, not a game or video console.
 
2012-11-30 01:34:17 PM  

Endive Wombat: I honestly do not know what else they can innovate that suddenly makes them more relevant that Google or Apple.


If they really wanted to get in tight with the business world, they could take Android (it's open-source), and combine it with serious enterprise management tools. Basically AD/Group Policy for mobile. Push app-updates from IT. Forced VPN settings. SOX-compliant logging. Remote help for 70-year-old idjits who won't retire but still want tech at hand. All that direction. It's a niche, but not a small one. Windows Phone isn't doing much of that, either.

Or, that was the opportunity they had. That opportunity has sailed, though. Since their IT wings didn't keep up and everyone wanted an iPhone, many companies have largely acceded to the 'whatever' security of Bring Your Own Device. GMail and Dropbox and everything else just keep creeping in everywhere.
 
2012-11-30 01:36:09 PM  
I have a $20 bet with a friend who works at RIM. My money's on BB10 being good but "too little, too late", and RIM's shareholders eventually selling the BES and IP off, probably to Microsoft. MS might not be interested at that point however, as Activesync is almost good enough, and MS is, technologically, on a roll with Winphone 8.
 
2012-11-30 01:42:16 PM  
Die already please.
 
2012-11-30 01:57:40 PM  
I'll always prefer their trackpad over touchscreen. Too bad the market went the other way and so too did RIM.
 
2012-11-30 02:04:56 PM  
Meanwhile, in the United Kingdom...

"Blackberry 10: AWESOME! If the hardware matches it, rim jobs are safe"

OK, fess up. Which one of us works at El Reg?
 
2012-11-30 02:14:13 PM  
CoD: RIM shot.
 
2012-11-30 02:15:25 PM  

lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.


We just got done moving all of our users, 45,000 of them, to Google. The largest complaint by far is Google Calendar. I don't understand why Google can't manage to replicate Exchange functionality, it shouldn't be that difficult.

Still, having Google manage the mail problems is worth having a shiatty calendar, and we're saving over 6 million a year.
 
2012-11-30 02:19:52 PM  

lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support. Bberries are not smartphones, they are phones with a PIM and a real kb. That's all I want in a phone, not a game or video console.


Unfortunately, the vast majority of both markets have more demands than that, demands which are better satisfied by a myriad of their competitors, and thus RIM are stuck in their current predicament.
 
2012-11-30 02:26:15 PM  
Will outlast RIM.

www.abevigoda.com
 
2012-11-30 02:37:19 PM  

lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.


For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.
 
2012-11-30 02:40:34 PM  
I'm stuck with my Bold until sometime next summer (or, until I smash it with a hammer).

For a phone, I think it works pretty well. I prefer the real keyboard (I do HATE the clicking though) and the trackpad over touch screen.

My main issue is with the browser and internet capabilities. I have to look stuff up for work on my phone a lot; half the time, sites crash the browser for being "too large". What kind of shiatty browser are they rolling out with their phones?
 
2012-11-30 02:47:45 PM  
My brother has a dirt-old Blackberry Curve from his work. He figured he'd look up information on BB 10 on the device so he could decide if he wanted to upgrade to that or some other phone. The site first caused the browser to crash, then the phone. I think he's done with BB.
 
2012-11-30 02:54:40 PM  

Lsherm: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

We just got done moving all of our users, 45,000 of them, to Google. The largest complaint by far is Google Calendar. I don't understand why Google can't manage to replicate Exchange functionality, it shouldn't be that difficult.

Still, having Google manage the mail problems is worth having a shiatty calendar, and we're saving over 6 million a year.


Exchange is the most stable product that has ever come out of Microsoft, A lot of money and work has gone into making that possible. It would take google a while to catch up to that. Not saying it can't be done but it's not easy even for google.

\Exchange admin
\\powershell junkie
\\\loves 2012
 
2012-11-30 02:56:41 PM  

Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.


I'm not sure if it's a BB specific feature, but the "auto conference dial" for calendar appointments is a farking awesome feature. When you get a reminder for a calender appointment, if there's a conference bridge number anywhere in the appointment it will dial it automatically, wait for the pause, then enter the code. It's about as hands-free as you can possibly get for a remote meeting.

Also not sure if it's a BB only feature, but creating conference calls on the fly using the phone is a pretty big plus. Multiple select people in your address book, hit the menu key, and choose "create conference" and it dials everybody and creates a conference call on your phone. I hate my BB, but I use that feature a farkton.
 
2012-11-30 03:12:53 PM  
It is so farking easy to fix RIM that I don't understand why people don't get it....

First things first - realize what your biggest market advantage is, and know that it's not BBM, or BES or the fact that it's a "business" phone. That's stupid. Your biggest market advantage is you are basically the only phone out there with a phyiscal keyboard, and you need to use that to retain your customers. There are still TONS of people out there who continue to buy Blackberries because they don't like the touchscreen keyboard, but they're slowly making their way over because BBs suck balls otherwise.

All RIM needs to do is create a smartphone that is as nice and awesome as the Samsung Galaxy series or the iPhone series, and put a physical keyboard attachment at the bottom. Sell them together and BOOM - you've retained basically your entire customer base, and you may even attract some new ones. It wouldn't be a "tall" phone by any means (think iPhone 4 height, but with the attachment, it would still likely be smaller than the Galaxy S3).

Oh, and pay someone a lot of money to do some real marketing for you, because otherwise you're just going to have another product that no one knows anything about.
 
2012-11-30 03:19:49 PM  
enry

My brother has a dirt-old Blackberry Curve from his work. He figured he'd look up information on BB 10 on the device so he could decide if he wanted to upgrade to that or some other phone. The site first caused the browser to crash, then the phone. I think he's done with BB.

Tell him to get a better phone to look up the information at. Seriously the curve is over 4 years old and that is ancient in technology (especially phone) terms. Take IE6 anywhere on the internet and you will prolly replicate the results.

I am pretty interested in BB, I want to see what they have been doing for the past 3 years. I would like them to succeed along with WinMo7/8. I am very happy with my Samsung G3 but the more players in the game keep the big dogs from getting complacent and when the consumer has choice we all win. Yes I have a soft spot (recovering BB addict) but I would prefer not to see the two party system like the US government.
 
2012-11-30 03:22:14 PM  
In the consumer market, RIM is done. They may still have a chance in the Enterprise market, if they can get a superior, must-have product for iOS/WinMo/Android management. Otherwise, as has been alluded to above, ActiveSync is "good enough" for most places.

/Farewell, Nortel 2.0.
 
2012-11-30 03:25:21 PM  

Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.


Well, I can set my out of office reply from my mobile on a BB, but not an iPhone. The Apple client implements only a portion of the ActiveSync API. Apple pretty much just cares about top level features. More importantly, BES is simply more reliable and less buggy for less widely used features like calendaring. Every single one of my colleagues who use an iPhone complain of issues syncing calendar. I had one for 3 months, and a decent percentage of calendar items simply would not show up on my iPhone. The various Android ActiveSync clients are just sh*t.

Only Microsoft and BB care about calendaring, because they're the ones who have meaningful enterprise customers.
 
2012-11-30 03:25:29 PM  

R.A.Danny: I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.


RIM doesn't have a Steve Jobs returning to yank their heads out of their asses.
 
2012-11-30 03:30:51 PM  

homarjr: It is so farking easy to fix RIM that I don't understand why people don't get it....

First things first - realize what your biggest market advantage is, and know that it's not BBM, or BES or the fact that it's a "business" phone. That's stupid. Your biggest market advantage is you are basically the only phone out there with a phyiscal keyboard, and you need to use that to retain your customers. There are still TONS of people out there who continue to buy Blackberries because they don't like the touchscreen keyboard, but they're slowly making their way over because BBs suck balls otherwise.

All RIM needs to do is create a smartphone that is as nice and awesome as the Samsung Galaxy series or the iPhone series, and put a physical keyboard attachment at the bottom. Sell them together and BOOM - you've retained basically your entire customer base, and you may even attract some new ones. It wouldn't be a "tall" phone by any means (think iPhone 4 height, but with the attachment, it would still likely be smaller than the Galaxy S3).

Oh, and pay someone a lot of money to do some real marketing for you, because otherwise you're just going to have another product that no one knows anything about.


Soooooo, do you read the news? Cause that's pretty much exactly what they're doing. Like almost word for word.
 
2012-11-30 03:33:26 PM  

AcneVulgaris: R.A.Danny: I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.

RIM doesn't have a Steve Jobs returning to yank their heads out of their asses.


To be fair neither does Apple anymore.
 
2012-11-30 03:42:47 PM  

AcneVulgaris: R.A.Danny: I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.

RIM doesn't have a Steve Jobs returning to yank their heads out of their asses.


Even if they did, Apple still had a healthy, but aging product line. Steve Jobs came back in 1996. OSX and the iPod didn't even get introduced for another five years, and the iPod wouldn't even become a significant revenue stream for another 4 years after that. For nearly a decade, Jobs basically squeaked out over $60B in sales from IP that existed before Jobs took over.

Apple was able to leverage existing IP to generate revenue while developing next gen stuff. RIM's tech is dead. They idea that it can sell existing stuff for more than another six months is ridiculous. And of course, one of their problems is that they have advertised the shiat out of BB10, the promise of which has been cannibalizing sales for a good 18 months.

The entire company could be bought for $6B. A private equity firm could probably get it for somewhere in the neighborhood of $600M. It's extremely precarious.
 
2012-11-30 03:52:51 PM  
Sounds like MS should buy BB for its BES, integrate the best parts, use a new Win8 platform and completely own Business and Enterprise.
 
2012-11-30 03:57:45 PM  

homarjr: It is so farking easy to fix RIM that I don't understand why people don't get it....

First things first - realize what your biggest market advantage is, and know that it's not BBM, or BES or the fact that it's a "business" phone. That's stupid. Your biggest market advantage is you are basically the only phone out there with a phyiscal keyboard, and you need to use that to retain your customers. There are still TONS of people out there who continue to buy Blackberries because they don't like the touchscreen keyboard, but they're slowly making their way over because BBs suck balls otherwise.

All RIM needs to do is create a smartphone that is as nice and awesome as the Samsung Galaxy series or the iPhone series, and put a physical keyboard attachment at the bottom. Sell them together and BOOM - you've retained basically your entire customer base, and you may even attract some new ones. It wouldn't be a "tall" phone by any means (think iPhone 4 height, but with the attachment, it would still likely be smaller than the Galaxy S3).

Oh, and pay someone a lot of money to do some real marketing for you, because otherwise you're just going to have another product that no one knows anything about.


there are, and have been android phones which have a keyboard. I've had 2 of them.
 
2012-11-30 04:05:28 PM  

Lsherm: Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.

I'm not sure if it's a BB specific feature, but the "auto conference dial" for calendar appointments is a farking awesome feature. When you get a reminder for a calender appointment, if there's a conference bridge number anywhere in the appointment it will dial it automatically, wait for the pause, then enter the code. It's about as hands-free as you can possibly get for a remote meeting.

Also not sure if it's a BB only feature, but creating conference calls on the fly using the phone is a pretty big plus. Multiple select people in your address book, hit the menu key, and choose "create conference" and it dials everybody and creates a conference call on your phone. I hate my BB, but I use that feature a farkton.


Those are definitely BB specific features. Definitely sound like some cool things to have.


Babwa Wawa: Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

Well, I can set my out of office reply from my mobile on a BB, but not an iPhone. The Apple client implements only a portion of the ActiveSync API. Apple pretty much just cares about top level features. More importantly, BES is simply more reliable and less buggy for less widely used features like calendaring. Every single one of my colleagues who use an iPhone complain of issues syncing calendar. I had one for 3 months, and a decent percentage of calendar items simply would not show up on my iPhone. The various Android ActiveSync clients are just sh*t.

Only Microsoft and BB care about calendaring, because they're the ones who have meaningful enterprise customers.


It is probably because I've been using Windows Phones, but those features have both been working flawlessly on my recent phones. OOO auto-replies work especially well because I get the option to set different wording for internal and external replies.
 
2012-11-30 04:17:41 PM  

Mad_Radhu: It is probably because I've been using Windows Phones, but those features have both been working flawlessly on my recent phones. OOO auto-replies work especially well because I get the option to set different wording for internal and external replies.


Yeah, MS does their ActiveSync client right. Which makes the fact that they're developing Outlook for Android all that much more interesting. I will consider an Android phone once that comes out. I could live without a calendar, but an inaccurate calendar is worse than nothing at all.
 
2012-11-30 04:23:11 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Those are definitely BB specific features. Definitely sound like some cool things to have.


Well that's a little depressing, because I use those all the time. Someone should get to work to duplicate it. It's balls out awesome for people who don't have an office.

If you're in Redmond, maybe you can pass the suggestion up the chain *wink wink*
 
2012-11-30 04:25:09 PM  

Lsherm: Mad_Radhu: Those are definitely BB specific features. Definitely sound like some cool things to have.

Well that's a little depressing, because I use those all the time. Someone should get to work to duplicate it. It's balls out awesome for people who don't have an office.

If you're in Redmond, maybe you can pass the suggestion up the chain *wink wink*


Unfortunately, I don't work for that particular company in Redmond, but I do occasionally work with them so I might be able to say a few.
 
2012-11-30 04:26:51 PM  
Sorta off-topic, but I'm looking to buy a new cell phone in the next few weeks, and one of the operators here is having a promotion on the Motorola RAZR HD. Anyone have any experience with this phone, good or bad? Reviews are positive but not beaming, so I was wondering if any of you had any input.

It's tough to decide, really. The iPhone 5 is right out, because even though the design and build quality are apparently excellent (A) maps are still broken, and that's one functionality I use all the time, (B) it's still way, way too expensive to get one with enough storage for what I use it for, even with the new-contract subsidy, and (C) Apple still hasn't come out with one that works on French 4G frequencies.

On the other hand, I really like the functionality of the Samsung Galaxy SIII and everything I've heard says its a great phone, but it is OMGHUEG sized and the plastic case just feels cheap.
 
2012-11-30 05:19:14 PM  
Go RIM, I'll need something to replace my 9100 soon...

Played with both versions (touch & keyboard models) of the new hardware a couple weeks ago. Seems solid, I like the interface. Hopefully it will resonate with the public, I'll pick one up regardless, not sure how many others will though.
 
2012-11-30 05:21:47 PM  
Hey I know, maybe HP could buy them!
 
2012-11-30 05:23:43 PM  

R.A.Danny: Shostie: R.A.Danny: I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.

Theoretically, I guess.

I don't want to throw around phrases like "death-spiral" out there willy-nilly, but RIM hasn't been doing very well for a while now.

No argument whatsoever. Businesses LOVE Blackberrys and BES though and the promise of control and support of IOS and Android devices in the near future has a lot of shops taking another look.


Hey Grandpa get with the times Business "use" to like Blackberry's. Have you by chance seen all the government organizations in the last year or two coming out and openly announcing that they are kicking all the Blackberry's to the curb? (NTSB, ICE)

I manage wireless devices for a Fortune 500 company and we got rid of our BES at the beginning of this year simply because the cost of it was not worth it and the devices were utter junk. We became a full blown Apple shop for corporate users and non corporate users can attach either their android or iOS device to our Mobileiron security appliance. Much like the BES of old days new mobile device appliances like Mobileiron or Airwatch give you functionality much like you previously had so our IT security group could sign off on us moving to those devices.

I have a friend here in Dallas who works at the RIM headquarters for the US and they just got their walking papers because of how little demand they are needed. About a week ago a report came out and said that RIM only has a 1.6 percent market share in the mobile space. It is shrinking monthly and getting worse.

RIM does have one last shot with the BB10 devices, they better be solid and a complete 180 from the current slow, random rebooting nightmare phones they are selling. RIM's integration with iOS and android came in the way of a MDM client called Fusion which was part of a recent acquisition of a German company who is in the mobile device space. I have heard nothing but bad things about it from everyone who has tried it out.

It will be interesting to see how RIM goes forward but from everything I know about the company and how it works internally I doubt they have a fighting chance. I actually interviewed their and was offered a decently high paying gig but I walked away because RIM was at the start of this huge death spiral, now I look at everything and I am so glad I didn't make the move. All I can say is good luck RIM you are going to need it.
 
2012-11-30 05:24:23 PM  

Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.


Non BES integration is very buggy (see iOS Exchange calendaring bug which took out entire corp scheduling systems). Android has its share of bugs too because of the market fragmentation -- almost every device's Android build is unique and thus bugs everywhere.

Often on non-BES phones you can't do a group invite or if you deleted a meeting it never sent the cancellation to the other attendees or booked room to release it.

BES was an MDM solution before its time. Now Mobile Iron, Zenprise, AirWatch, etc. can block apps do remote screen support, inventory, push apps, central policy push, etc. but it comes at a premium.
 
2012-11-30 05:28:26 PM  

lohphat: Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.

Non BES integration is very buggy (see iOS Exchange calendaring bug which took out entire corp scheduling systems). Android has its share of bugs too because of the market fragmentation -- almost every device's Android build is unique and thus bugs everywhere.

Often on non-BES phones you can't do a group invite or if you deleted a meeting it never sent the cancellation to the other attendees or booked room to release it.

BES was an MDM solution before its time. Now Mobile Iron, Zenprise, AirWatch, etc. can block apps do remote screen support, inventory, push apps, central policy push, etc. but it comes at a premium.


the iOS calendaring bug was cleared up in iOS 6.0.1. You also can use Meraki's free MDM management tool if you want to, it also works with laptops which is pretty interesting.
 
2012-11-30 05:42:11 PM  

R.A.Danny: No argument whatsoever. Businesses LOVE Blackberrys and BES though and the promise of control and support of IOS and Android devices in the near future has a lot of shops taking another look.


Tools to mange iOS based devices just like Blackberries have existed for at least three years. And businesses don't "love" blackberrys. Its just been the tool of choice for this application for a while with no viable competitors. Now that there is an actual alternative - organizations are abandoning them in droves.
 
2012-11-30 05:56:15 PM  
Another Fortune 500 company here that is getting rid of Blackberries.

Really, how stupid is it that you have to run TWO BES servers... one for pre-os10 devices, and a completely different one for version 10 and up. Nail in the coffin right there.

Android/iOS/WP8 shop now.
 
2012-11-30 05:59:41 PM  

USA Prime Credit Peggy: Really, how stupid is it that you have to run TWO BES servers... one for pre-os10 devices, and a completely different one for version 10 and up. Nail in the coffin right there.


That is exactly why we are moving away from RIM. Our German counterparts are LIVID with the decision, they still have Blackberrys with trackballs and are horrified at change.
 
2012-11-30 06:15:38 PM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: the iOS calendaring bug


You say that like there's just one iOS calendaring bug.
 
2012-11-30 06:28:24 PM  

Babwa Wawa: TheGhostofFarkPast: the iOS calendaring bug

You say that like there's just one iOS calendaring bug.


The other bugs are a result of a few things.

1) A lot of people have many delegates for their inbox which causes a lot of problems, no one observes MS best practices.
2) Another thing people need to do is when they get their new fancy account setup on their iOS device they need to go to settings- > Mail, contacts, and calendars and make sure their companies settings are listed everywhere it says "default account" and under default calendar you have to click it and then select your companies calendar. Also under the calendar app they need to uncheck "on my iphone" or "on my ipad" Problem is people leave all sorts of email accounts as the default which causes utter chaos. I have ingrained in all my users the proper settings from day one.
 
2012-11-30 06:54:11 PM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: Another thing people need to do is when they get their new fancy account setup on their iOS device they need to go to settings- > Mail, contacts, and calendars and make sure their companies settings are listed everywhere it says "default account" and under default calendar you have to click it and then select your companies calendar. Also under the calendar app they need to uncheck "on my iphone" or "on my ipad" Problem is people leave all sorts of email accounts as the default which causes utter chaos. I have ingrained in all my users the proper settings from day one.


Let's just pretend for a second that performing all these gyrations will result in iOS/ActiveSync calendar integration that doesn't cause f*cking data loss. It won't, but let's just pretend for a second.

The very fact that you have to do all this shiat underscores the reality that Apple is a consumer electronics company "playing" in the enterprise technology space. Most people just need a calendar book, and don't need it to sync. Most people don't have address books with thousands of people in them. Most people don't need a facility to search the GAL (I have no idea whether this is possible in iOS, but it's an example of enterprise vs consumer requirements).

MS and RIM address these issues for the business user, because the business user is their bread and butter. Apple doesn't give a shiat, because the majority of their customer base just needs basic functionality in email, contacts and calendar - they want advanced functionality in other areas like media and gaming. I don't care about being able to play minecraft on my phone. I need something that won't fark up my calendar. I'd prefer an email app that elegantly integrates with the contacts app (RIM does this beautifully). I hate my blackberry, I wish I could use an iPhone in a productive manner for business, but I can't.

I'll probably switch over to Android once MS comes out with their own ActiveSync client for it.
 
2012-11-30 07:13:15 PM  

Babwa Wawa: TheGhostofFarkPast: Another thing people need to do is when they get their new fancy account setup on their iOS device they need to go to settings- > Mail, contacts, and calendars and make sure their companies settings are listed everywhere it says "default account" and under default calendar you have to click it and then select your companies calendar. Also under the calendar app they need to uncheck "on my iphone" or "on my ipad" Problem is people leave all sorts of email accounts as the default which causes utter chaos. I have ingrained in all my users the proper settings from day one.

Let's just pretend for a second that performing all these gyrations will result in iOS/ActiveSync calendar integration that doesn't cause f*cking data loss. It won't, but let's just pretend for a second.

The very fact that you have to do all this shiat underscores the reality that Apple is a consumer electronics company "playing" in the enterprise technology space. Most people just need a calendar book, and don't need it to sync. Most people don't have address books with thousands of people in them. Most people don't need a facility to search the GAL (I have no idea whether this is possible in iOS, but it's an example of enterprise vs consumer requirements).

MS and RIM address these issues for the business user, because the business user is their bread and butter. Apple doesn't give a shiat, because the majority of their customer base just needs basic functionality in email, contacts and calendar - they want advanced functionality in other areas like media and gaming. I don't care about being able to play minecraft on my phone. I need something that won't fark up my calendar. I'd prefer an email app that elegantly integrates with the contacts app (RIM does this beautifully). I hate my blackberry, I wish I could use an iPhone in a productive manner for business, but I can't.

I'll probably switch over to Android once MS comes out with their own ActiveSync client for ...


Wow man you are talking way outside your field of depth and experience.

1) MS make an activesync client for Android? Are you high, why would they waste the time Activesync is being grafted into all the phones already. Plus you have apps like "Touchdown for Smartphones"which is the best Exchange/outlook mail client you can get on Android and blows everything out of the water. Apparently you have never touched an Android phone or have a clue what you are talking about.

2) Those settings you are complaining about take all of literally 5 seconds to change. I stress tested those settings in a corporate environment by doing over 200 calendar invites and cancellations with meetings ranging from 1 person to over 100. I lost all of one appointment and that was probably because I was messing around with different versions of Outlook. I would recommend "Week Cal" from the AppStore or "Calvetica Calendar" they are by far the most robust calendars in the whole marketplace.

3) GAL and contact integration with email- The Blackberry and the iPhone work the same way, You can search the GAL on both, when you are in the TO portion of the email and start typing a name it will reach out across the GAL and try to find who you are looking for just like on a Blackberry.

If you know what you are doing an iPhone or an Android(I recommend devices over 4.0 OS) smartphone can be used exactly like a Blackberry you just need to know what you are doing in the first place.
 
2012-11-30 07:50:41 PM  
LOL. I'm not high. Hell, I'm not even speculating. MS announced Outlook for Android this week, citing fragmentation in the Android market, which is a nice way of saying that Exchange/Android integration sucks. See link below.

As for calendar integration, those fixes don't work across all enterprises, but good on you that it works for you. But the very fact that it doesn't work with the default settings, where WP and BB do, along with the various Activesync clusterfarks Apple has perpetrated, underscores the fact that APPL puts enterprise integration pretty far down the list.

And yeah, I've used Touchdown. It's a godawful mess. Being the best ActiveSync client on Android is like being the tallest midget.

http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/11/27/microsoft-says-many-gmail-users-wo u ld-consider-switching-to-outlook-com-launches-android-app-conversation -threading-more/?p=2&icid=art_next0
 
2012-11-30 08:26:29 PM  

Robo Beat: Sorta off-topic, but I'm looking to buy a new cell phone in the next few weeks, and one of the operators here is having a promotion on the Motorola RAZR HD. Anyone have any experience with this phone, good or bad? Reviews are positive but not beaming, so I was wondering if any of you had any input.

It's tough to decide, really. The iPhone 5 is right out, because even though the design and build quality are apparently excellent (A) maps are still broken, and that's one functionality I use all the time, (B) it's still way, way too expensive to get one with enough storage for what I use it for, even with the new-contract subsidy, and (C) Apple still hasn't come out with one that works on French 4G frequencies.

On the other hand, I really like the functionality of the Samsung Galaxy SIII and everything I've heard says its a great phone, but it is OMGHUEG sized and the plastic case just feels cheap.


I haven't used the Droid Razr HD myself, but in the latest round of tests by Consumer Reports it got even higher marks than the Galaxy S III.
 
2012-11-30 08:33:28 PM  
But RIM will die!

collider.com

It's dead already!
 
2012-11-30 08:36:00 PM  

Babwa Wawa: LOL. I'm not high. Hell, I'm not even speculating. MS announced Outlook for Android this week, citing fragmentation in the Android market, which is a nice way of saying that Exchange/Android integration sucks. See link below.

As for calendar integration, those fixes don't work across all enterprises, but good on you that it works for you. But the very fact that it doesn't work with the default settings, where WP and BB do, along with the various Activesync clusterfarks Apple has perpetrated, underscores the fact that APPL puts enterprise integration pretty far down the list.

And yeah, I've used Touchdown. It's a godawful mess. Being the best ActiveSync client on Android is like being the tallest midget.

http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/11/27/microsoft-says-many-gmail-users-wo u ld-consider-switching-to-outlook-com-launches-android-app-conversation -threading-more/?p=2&icid=art_next0


That's actually an app to sync with Outlook.com, which is the rebranded version of Hotmail web mail, not full-on Exchange syncing. From the reviews on the Google Play page for the app, they just repurposed the existing Hotmail app made by Seven.
 
2012-11-30 08:41:00 PM  
And the inconsistent syncing they cite in the article might be due to the Exchange syncing for m.hotmail.com, which uses part of the Exchange protocol but doesn't do everything a full Exchange server will do. For example, it'll get annoyed at you if you sync email with too many devices at once, but it doesn't have a web interface available like Exchange does that allows you to remove devices that are synced. I'm sure there is other weirdness with how it uses Exchange that throws off iOS and Android devices that are thinking that they are syncing with a real Exchange server.
 
2012-11-30 09:10:23 PM  

Endive Wombat: Unless RIM creates some kind of game changer that is on par, or better than an Android or iPhone, they do not stand a chance of ever seeing a single penny from me again.

I honestly do not know what else they can innovate that suddenly makes them more relevant that Google or Apple.


That's it though. The 10 could be better than the galaxy and iPhone but still might not be enough. Too much time has passed since they mattered.
 
2012-11-30 10:39:42 PM  

Babwa Wawa: I'll probably switch over to Android once MS comes out with their own ActiveSync client for it.


ActiveSync? I'd hope all the email clients are using EWS by now.
 
2012-11-30 11:19:19 PM  

Babwa Wawa: LOL. I'm not high. Hell, I'm not even speculating. MS announced Outlook for Android this week, citing fragmentation in the Android market, which is a nice way of saying that Exchange/Android integration sucks. See link below.

As for calendar integration, those fixes don't work across all enterprises, but good on you that it works for you. But the very fact that it doesn't work with the default settings, where WP and BB do, along with the various Activesync clusterfarks Apple has perpetrated, underscores the fact that APPL puts enterprise integration pretty far down the list.

And yeah, I've used Touchdown. It's a godawful mess. Being the best ActiveSync client on Android is like being the tallest midget.

http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/11/27/microsoft-says-many-gmail-users-wo u ld-consider-switching-to-outlook-com-launches-android-app-conversation -threading-more/?p=2&icid=art_next0


What are you talking about? You first say MS is going to create an Activesync application then you point to their new Outlook.com client? How is that suppose to work in an enterprise environment? So again MS has not nor will they put out an Activesync client to work across the enterprise framework. They will NOT make an application that works with Activesync in an enterprise world and this little Hotmail/Outlook.com app is worthless. Not to mention you could already use the m.hotmail.com as an exchange setup in any of the mail clients on any phone you can get your hands up, my parents have been running this same setup for years.

Also you haven't used Touchdown in a long time if you are saying that because they have massively overhauled it. It has been completely redone from the ground up over the last 6 months and it's very smooth now. Also the Touchdown HD version is great to use on tablets.

So once again this is you posting and talking out your ass about stuff you have no clue about.
 
2012-12-01 01:10:29 AM  
Maybe B'eh'n Capital will buy them.

We have a 12 user license BES server. The support on it would have been something like $4000/yr. We dropped support on it years ago. We are down to 3 users until the phones or the server croaks. Yes there is BES lite or something like that but I'd rather have another root canal than figure out how to install it.

I have a Torch and has the worst interface of anything I've used yet. If you look at it funny it will butt dial someone.
 
2012-12-01 02:10:06 AM  
This is not a repeat of 2012, 2011, 2010...
 
2012-12-01 02:56:33 AM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: Babwa Wawa: TheGhostofFarkPast: the iOS calendaring bug

You say that like there's just one iOS calendaring bug.

The other bugs are a result of a few things.

1) A lot of people have many delegates for their inbox which causes a lot of problems, no one observes MS best practices.
2) Another thing people need to do is when they get their new fancy account setup on their iOS device they need to go to settings- > Mail, contacts, and calendars and make sure their companies settings are listed everywhere it says "default account" and under default calendar you have to click it and then select your companies calendar. Also under the calendar app they need to uncheck "on my iphone" or "on my ipad" Problem is people leave all sorts of email accounts as the default which causes utter chaos. I have ingrained in all my users the proper settings from day one.


This is the problem with Enterprise environments: You can expect individuals to take action on individual devices. Voluntary compliance does not scale and does not meet external audit requirements when you have thousands of devices. You must be able to mandate and enforce policies centrally and document you've done so.

Voluntary compliance is not compliance.
 
2012-12-01 08:52:00 AM  

Lsherm: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

We just got done moving all of our users, 45,000 of them, to Google. The largest complaint by far is Google Calendar. I don't understand why Google can't manage to replicate Exchange functionality, it shouldn't be that difficult.

Still, having Google manage the mail problems is worth having a shiatty calendar, and we're saving over 6 million a year.


Ha ha yeah "what's so difficult about calendaring anyway?"

Looks like the market is ripe for you to start something up to challenge MSExchange in your garage :)

Blackberry held on to the market as long as it did because of dinosaur companies that still schedule meeting rooms and use email as a dumping ground for all their corporate content and messaging. One-by-one, as the older crowd retires, email becomes less important, and therefore "enterprise email" (whatever that could mean, I guess 'email IT can read over my shoulder') becomes less important, and as we've already seen, user experience trumps security.

Blackberry makes products for the paranoid Fortune 500 set. Apple makes products for the get-er-done startup set. I know who I want to work for.
 
2012-12-01 12:23:44 PM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: lohphat: Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.

Non BES integration is very buggy (see iOS Exchange calendaring bug which took out entire corp scheduling systems). Android has its share of bugs too because of the market fragmentation -- almost every device's Android build is unique and thus bugs everywhere.

Often on non-BES phones you can't do a group invite or if you deleted a meeting it never sent the cancellation to the other attendees or booked room to release it.

BES was an MDM solution before its time. Now Mobile Iron, Zenprise, AirWatch, etc. can block apps do remote screen support, inventory, push apps, central policy push, etc. but it comes at a premium.

the iOS calendaring bug was cleared up in iOS 6.0.1. You also can use Meraki's free MDM management tool if you want to, it also works with laptops which is pretty interesting.


Bah. I'm scared about what Cisco's MDM will do. They will have to try really hard to keep my business with them.
 
2012-12-01 01:42:35 PM  

mccallcl: Blackberry makes products for the paranoid profitable Fortune 500 set. Apple makes products for the get-er-doneseed capital sqandering startup set. I know who I want to work for.

 
2012-12-01 03:05:03 PM  
The only reason Blackberry won't die? farking keyboards. I'm serious. I can't tell you how many of my customers (attorneys mostly) hang on to their BB's because they hate touch keyboards.

If Apple ever made an IPhone with a slidey outey keyboard, it would be game over. BES sucks to maintain and does nothing that a well configured Exchange 2010 server can't do natively.
 
2012-12-01 05:17:15 PM  
5 more phones die or contracts end and we can retire our BES at work. I think we'll reach that number in 2013.

Close2TheEdge: The only reason Blackberry won't die? farking keyboards. I'm serious. I can't tell you how many of my customers (attorneys mostly) hang on to their BB's because they hate touch keyboards.


and that. Granted those people are mostly just stubborn assholes.
 
2012-12-01 08:31:24 PM  

Close2TheEdge: The only reason Blackberry won't die? farking keyboards. I'm serious. I can't tell you how many of my customers (attorneys mostly) hang on to their BB's because they hate touch keyboards.

If Apple ever made an IPhone with a slidey outey keyboard, it would be game over. BES sucks to maintain and does nothing that a well configured Exchange 2010 server can't do natively.


I have an Android phone with a physical slide-out keyboard. I'll take it over a RIMjob phone any day of the week. (or an iPhone, for that matter.)
 
2012-12-02 04:00:28 AM  

Close2TheEdge: BES sucks to maintain and does nothing that a well configured Exchange 2010 server can't do natively.


BES provides much more policy control than does ActiveSync and offers built-in end-to-end VPN so that you can access internal resources without having to fire-up a VPN client. BES also can report location of devices, push applications, and change almost any setting on the device as part of group policies.

It is not hard to maintain.

With that said, BES can't compete with modern MDM solutions like Mobile Iron et al.
 
2012-12-02 11:37:46 AM  

mccallcl: Lsherm: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

We just got done moving all of our users, 45,000 of them, to Google. The largest complaint by far is Google Calendar. I don't understand why Google can't manage to replicate Exchange functionality, it shouldn't be that difficult.

Still, having Google manage the mail problems is worth having a shiatty calendar, and we're saving over 6 million a year.

Ha ha yeah "what's so difficult about calendaring anyway?"

Looks like the market is ripe for you to start something up to challenge MSExchange in your garage :)

Blackberry held on to the market as long as it did because of dinosaur companies that still schedule meeting rooms and use email as a dumping ground for all their corporate content and messaging. One-by-one, as the older crowd retires, email becomes less important, and therefore "enterprise email" (whatever that could mean, I guess 'email IT can read over my shoulder') becomes less important, and as we've already seen, user experience trumps security.

Blackberry makes products for the paranoid Fortune 500 set. Apple makes products for the get-er-done startup set. I know who I want to work for.


Well, based on that rambling post, I know who I don't want you working for: me.

TheGreatGazoo: Yes there is BES lite or something like that but I'd rather have another root canal than figure out how to install it.


BES express gives you a free license for 15 users, and it installs just the same as the paid product. You don't get support for it either way, but you don't have to pay for the client licenses. Since CALs are one-time expenses for BB's, this might not affect you.
 
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