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1951 clicks; posted to Business » on 30 Nov 2012 at 1:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-30 06:15:38 PM

TheGhostofFarkPast: the iOS calendaring bug


You say that like there's just one iOS calendaring bug.
 
2012-11-30 06:28:24 PM

Babwa Wawa: TheGhostofFarkPast: the iOS calendaring bug

You say that like there's just one iOS calendaring bug.


The other bugs are a result of a few things.

1) A lot of people have many delegates for their inbox which causes a lot of problems, no one observes MS best practices.
2) Another thing people need to do is when they get their new fancy account setup on their iOS device they need to go to settings- > Mail, contacts, and calendars and make sure their companies settings are listed everywhere it says "default account" and under default calendar you have to click it and then select your companies calendar. Also under the calendar app they need to uncheck "on my iphone" or "on my ipad" Problem is people leave all sorts of email accounts as the default which causes utter chaos. I have ingrained in all my users the proper settings from day one.
 
2012-11-30 06:54:11 PM

TheGhostofFarkPast: Another thing people need to do is when they get their new fancy account setup on their iOS device they need to go to settings- > Mail, contacts, and calendars and make sure their companies settings are listed everywhere it says "default account" and under default calendar you have to click it and then select your companies calendar. Also under the calendar app they need to uncheck "on my iphone" or "on my ipad" Problem is people leave all sorts of email accounts as the default which causes utter chaos. I have ingrained in all my users the proper settings from day one.


Let's just pretend for a second that performing all these gyrations will result in iOS/ActiveSync calendar integration that doesn't cause f*cking data loss. It won't, but let's just pretend for a second.

The very fact that you have to do all this shiat underscores the reality that Apple is a consumer electronics company "playing" in the enterprise technology space. Most people just need a calendar book, and don't need it to sync. Most people don't have address books with thousands of people in them. Most people don't need a facility to search the GAL (I have no idea whether this is possible in iOS, but it's an example of enterprise vs consumer requirements).

MS and RIM address these issues for the business user, because the business user is their bread and butter. Apple doesn't give a shiat, because the majority of their customer base just needs basic functionality in email, contacts and calendar - they want advanced functionality in other areas like media and gaming. I don't care about being able to play minecraft on my phone. I need something that won't fark up my calendar. I'd prefer an email app that elegantly integrates with the contacts app (RIM does this beautifully). I hate my blackberry, I wish I could use an iPhone in a productive manner for business, but I can't.

I'll probably switch over to Android once MS comes out with their own ActiveSync client for it.
 
2012-11-30 07:13:15 PM

Babwa Wawa: TheGhostofFarkPast: Another thing people need to do is when they get their new fancy account setup on their iOS device they need to go to settings- > Mail, contacts, and calendars and make sure their companies settings are listed everywhere it says "default account" and under default calendar you have to click it and then select your companies calendar. Also under the calendar app they need to uncheck "on my iphone" or "on my ipad" Problem is people leave all sorts of email accounts as the default which causes utter chaos. I have ingrained in all my users the proper settings from day one.

Let's just pretend for a second that performing all these gyrations will result in iOS/ActiveSync calendar integration that doesn't cause f*cking data loss. It won't, but let's just pretend for a second.

The very fact that you have to do all this shiat underscores the reality that Apple is a consumer electronics company "playing" in the enterprise technology space. Most people just need a calendar book, and don't need it to sync. Most people don't have address books with thousands of people in them. Most people don't need a facility to search the GAL (I have no idea whether this is possible in iOS, but it's an example of enterprise vs consumer requirements).

MS and RIM address these issues for the business user, because the business user is their bread and butter. Apple doesn't give a shiat, because the majority of their customer base just needs basic functionality in email, contacts and calendar - they want advanced functionality in other areas like media and gaming. I don't care about being able to play minecraft on my phone. I need something that won't fark up my calendar. I'd prefer an email app that elegantly integrates with the contacts app (RIM does this beautifully). I hate my blackberry, I wish I could use an iPhone in a productive manner for business, but I can't.

I'll probably switch over to Android once MS comes out with their own ActiveSync client for ...


Wow man you are talking way outside your field of depth and experience.

1) MS make an activesync client for Android? Are you high, why would they waste the time Activesync is being grafted into all the phones already. Plus you have apps like "Touchdown for Smartphones"which is the best Exchange/outlook mail client you can get on Android and blows everything out of the water. Apparently you have never touched an Android phone or have a clue what you are talking about.

2) Those settings you are complaining about take all of literally 5 seconds to change. I stress tested those settings in a corporate environment by doing over 200 calendar invites and cancellations with meetings ranging from 1 person to over 100. I lost all of one appointment and that was probably because I was messing around with different versions of Outlook. I would recommend "Week Cal" from the AppStore or "Calvetica Calendar" they are by far the most robust calendars in the whole marketplace.

3) GAL and contact integration with email- The Blackberry and the iPhone work the same way, You can search the GAL on both, when you are in the TO portion of the email and start typing a name it will reach out across the GAL and try to find who you are looking for just like on a Blackberry.

If you know what you are doing an iPhone or an Android(I recommend devices over 4.0 OS) smartphone can be used exactly like a Blackberry you just need to know what you are doing in the first place.
 
2012-11-30 07:50:41 PM
LOL. I'm not high. Hell, I'm not even speculating. MS announced Outlook for Android this week, citing fragmentation in the Android market, which is a nice way of saying that Exchange/Android integration sucks. See link below.

As for calendar integration, those fixes don't work across all enterprises, but good on you that it works for you. But the very fact that it doesn't work with the default settings, where WP and BB do, along with the various Activesync clusterfarks Apple has perpetrated, underscores the fact that APPL puts enterprise integration pretty far down the list.

And yeah, I've used Touchdown. It's a godawful mess. Being the best ActiveSync client on Android is like being the tallest midget.

http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/11/27/microsoft-says-many-gmail-users-wo u ld-consider-switching-to-outlook-com-launches-android-app-conversation -threading-more/?p=2&icid=art_next0
 
2012-11-30 08:26:29 PM

Robo Beat: Sorta off-topic, but I'm looking to buy a new cell phone in the next few weeks, and one of the operators here is having a promotion on the Motorola RAZR HD. Anyone have any experience with this phone, good or bad? Reviews are positive but not beaming, so I was wondering if any of you had any input.

It's tough to decide, really. The iPhone 5 is right out, because even though the design and build quality are apparently excellent (A) maps are still broken, and that's one functionality I use all the time, (B) it's still way, way too expensive to get one with enough storage for what I use it for, even with the new-contract subsidy, and (C) Apple still hasn't come out with one that works on French 4G frequencies.

On the other hand, I really like the functionality of the Samsung Galaxy SIII and everything I've heard says its a great phone, but it is OMGHUEG sized and the plastic case just feels cheap.


I haven't used the Droid Razr HD myself, but in the latest round of tests by Consumer Reports it got even higher marks than the Galaxy S III.
 
2012-11-30 08:33:28 PM
But RIM will die!

collider.com

It's dead already!
 
2012-11-30 08:36:00 PM

Babwa Wawa: LOL. I'm not high. Hell, I'm not even speculating. MS announced Outlook for Android this week, citing fragmentation in the Android market, which is a nice way of saying that Exchange/Android integration sucks. See link below.

As for calendar integration, those fixes don't work across all enterprises, but good on you that it works for you. But the very fact that it doesn't work with the default settings, where WP and BB do, along with the various Activesync clusterfarks Apple has perpetrated, underscores the fact that APPL puts enterprise integration pretty far down the list.

And yeah, I've used Touchdown. It's a godawful mess. Being the best ActiveSync client on Android is like being the tallest midget.

http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/11/27/microsoft-says-many-gmail-users-wo u ld-consider-switching-to-outlook-com-launches-android-app-conversation -threading-more/?p=2&icid=art_next0


That's actually an app to sync with Outlook.com, which is the rebranded version of Hotmail web mail, not full-on Exchange syncing. From the reviews on the Google Play page for the app, they just repurposed the existing Hotmail app made by Seven.
 
2012-11-30 08:41:00 PM
And the inconsistent syncing they cite in the article might be due to the Exchange syncing for m.hotmail.com, which uses part of the Exchange protocol but doesn't do everything a full Exchange server will do. For example, it'll get annoyed at you if you sync email with too many devices at once, but it doesn't have a web interface available like Exchange does that allows you to remove devices that are synced. I'm sure there is other weirdness with how it uses Exchange that throws off iOS and Android devices that are thinking that they are syncing with a real Exchange server.
 
2012-11-30 09:10:23 PM

Endive Wombat: Unless RIM creates some kind of game changer that is on par, or better than an Android or iPhone, they do not stand a chance of ever seeing a single penny from me again.

I honestly do not know what else they can innovate that suddenly makes them more relevant that Google or Apple.


That's it though. The 10 could be better than the galaxy and iPhone but still might not be enough. Too much time has passed since they mattered.
 
2012-11-30 10:39:42 PM

Babwa Wawa: I'll probably switch over to Android once MS comes out with their own ActiveSync client for it.


ActiveSync? I'd hope all the email clients are using EWS by now.
 
2012-11-30 11:19:19 PM

Babwa Wawa: LOL. I'm not high. Hell, I'm not even speculating. MS announced Outlook for Android this week, citing fragmentation in the Android market, which is a nice way of saying that Exchange/Android integration sucks. See link below.

As for calendar integration, those fixes don't work across all enterprises, but good on you that it works for you. But the very fact that it doesn't work with the default settings, where WP and BB do, along with the various Activesync clusterfarks Apple has perpetrated, underscores the fact that APPL puts enterprise integration pretty far down the list.

And yeah, I've used Touchdown. It's a godawful mess. Being the best ActiveSync client on Android is like being the tallest midget.

http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/11/27/microsoft-says-many-gmail-users-wo u ld-consider-switching-to-outlook-com-launches-android-app-conversation -threading-more/?p=2&icid=art_next0


What are you talking about? You first say MS is going to create an Activesync application then you point to their new Outlook.com client? How is that suppose to work in an enterprise environment? So again MS has not nor will they put out an Activesync client to work across the enterprise framework. They will NOT make an application that works with Activesync in an enterprise world and this little Hotmail/Outlook.com app is worthless. Not to mention you could already use the m.hotmail.com as an exchange setup in any of the mail clients on any phone you can get your hands up, my parents have been running this same setup for years.

Also you haven't used Touchdown in a long time if you are saying that because they have massively overhauled it. It has been completely redone from the ground up over the last 6 months and it's very smooth now. Also the Touchdown HD version is great to use on tablets.

So once again this is you posting and talking out your ass about stuff you have no clue about.
 
2012-12-01 01:10:29 AM
Maybe B'eh'n Capital will buy them.

We have a 12 user license BES server. The support on it would have been something like $4000/yr. We dropped support on it years ago. We are down to 3 users until the phones or the server croaks. Yes there is BES lite or something like that but I'd rather have another root canal than figure out how to install it.

I have a Torch and has the worst interface of anything I've used yet. If you look at it funny it will butt dial someone.
 
2012-12-01 02:10:06 AM
This is not a repeat of 2012, 2011, 2010...
 
2012-12-01 02:56:33 AM

TheGhostofFarkPast: Babwa Wawa: TheGhostofFarkPast: the iOS calendaring bug

You say that like there's just one iOS calendaring bug.

The other bugs are a result of a few things.

1) A lot of people have many delegates for their inbox which causes a lot of problems, no one observes MS best practices.
2) Another thing people need to do is when they get their new fancy account setup on their iOS device they need to go to settings- > Mail, contacts, and calendars and make sure their companies settings are listed everywhere it says "default account" and under default calendar you have to click it and then select your companies calendar. Also under the calendar app they need to uncheck "on my iphone" or "on my ipad" Problem is people leave all sorts of email accounts as the default which causes utter chaos. I have ingrained in all my users the proper settings from day one.


This is the problem with Enterprise environments: You can expect individuals to take action on individual devices. Voluntary compliance does not scale and does not meet external audit requirements when you have thousands of devices. You must be able to mandate and enforce policies centrally and document you've done so.

Voluntary compliance is not compliance.
 
2012-12-01 08:52:00 AM

Lsherm: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

We just got done moving all of our users, 45,000 of them, to Google. The largest complaint by far is Google Calendar. I don't understand why Google can't manage to replicate Exchange functionality, it shouldn't be that difficult.

Still, having Google manage the mail problems is worth having a shiatty calendar, and we're saving over 6 million a year.


Ha ha yeah "what's so difficult about calendaring anyway?"

Looks like the market is ripe for you to start something up to challenge MSExchange in your garage :)

Blackberry held on to the market as long as it did because of dinosaur companies that still schedule meeting rooms and use email as a dumping ground for all their corporate content and messaging. One-by-one, as the older crowd retires, email becomes less important, and therefore "enterprise email" (whatever that could mean, I guess 'email IT can read over my shoulder') becomes less important, and as we've already seen, user experience trumps security.

Blackberry makes products for the paranoid Fortune 500 set. Apple makes products for the get-er-done startup set. I know who I want to work for.
 
2012-12-01 12:23:44 PM

TheGhostofFarkPast: lohphat: Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.

Non BES integration is very buggy (see iOS Exchange calendaring bug which took out entire corp scheduling systems). Android has its share of bugs too because of the market fragmentation -- almost every device's Android build is unique and thus bugs everywhere.

Often on non-BES phones you can't do a group invite or if you deleted a meeting it never sent the cancellation to the other attendees or booked room to release it.

BES was an MDM solution before its time. Now Mobile Iron, Zenprise, AirWatch, etc. can block apps do remote screen support, inventory, push apps, central policy push, etc. but it comes at a premium.

the iOS calendaring bug was cleared up in iOS 6.0.1. You also can use Meraki's free MDM management tool if you want to, it also works with laptops which is pretty interesting.


Bah. I'm scared about what Cisco's MDM will do. They will have to try really hard to keep my business with them.
 
2012-12-01 01:42:35 PM

mccallcl: Blackberry makes products for the paranoid profitable Fortune 500 set. Apple makes products for the get-er-doneseed capital sqandering startup set. I know who I want to work for.

 
2012-12-01 03:05:03 PM
The only reason Blackberry won't die? farking keyboards. I'm serious. I can't tell you how many of my customers (attorneys mostly) hang on to their BB's because they hate touch keyboards.

If Apple ever made an IPhone with a slidey outey keyboard, it would be game over. BES sucks to maintain and does nothing that a well configured Exchange 2010 server can't do natively.
 
2012-12-01 05:17:15 PM
5 more phones die or contracts end and we can retire our BES at work. I think we'll reach that number in 2013.

Close2TheEdge: The only reason Blackberry won't die? farking keyboards. I'm serious. I can't tell you how many of my customers (attorneys mostly) hang on to their BB's because they hate touch keyboards.


and that. Granted those people are mostly just stubborn assholes.
 
2012-12-01 08:31:24 PM

Close2TheEdge: The only reason Blackberry won't die? farking keyboards. I'm serious. I can't tell you how many of my customers (attorneys mostly) hang on to their BB's because they hate touch keyboards.

If Apple ever made an IPhone with a slidey outey keyboard, it would be game over. BES sucks to maintain and does nothing that a well configured Exchange 2010 server can't do natively.


I have an Android phone with a physical slide-out keyboard. I'll take it over a RIMjob phone any day of the week. (or an iPhone, for that matter.)
 
2012-12-02 04:00:28 AM

Close2TheEdge: BES sucks to maintain and does nothing that a well configured Exchange 2010 server can't do natively.


BES provides much more policy control than does ActiveSync and offers built-in end-to-end VPN so that you can access internal resources without having to fire-up a VPN client. BES also can report location of devices, push applications, and change almost any setting on the device as part of group policies.

It is not hard to maintain.

With that said, BES can't compete with modern MDM solutions like Mobile Iron et al.
 
2012-12-02 11:37:46 AM

mccallcl: Lsherm: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

We just got done moving all of our users, 45,000 of them, to Google. The largest complaint by far is Google Calendar. I don't understand why Google can't manage to replicate Exchange functionality, it shouldn't be that difficult.

Still, having Google manage the mail problems is worth having a shiatty calendar, and we're saving over 6 million a year.

Ha ha yeah "what's so difficult about calendaring anyway?"

Looks like the market is ripe for you to start something up to challenge MSExchange in your garage :)

Blackberry held on to the market as long as it did because of dinosaur companies that still schedule meeting rooms and use email as a dumping ground for all their corporate content and messaging. One-by-one, as the older crowd retires, email becomes less important, and therefore "enterprise email" (whatever that could mean, I guess 'email IT can read over my shoulder') becomes less important, and as we've already seen, user experience trumps security.

Blackberry makes products for the paranoid Fortune 500 set. Apple makes products for the get-er-done startup set. I know who I want to work for.


Well, based on that rambling post, I know who I don't want you working for: me.

TheGreatGazoo: Yes there is BES lite or something like that but I'd rather have another root canal than figure out how to install it.


BES express gives you a free license for 15 users, and it installs just the same as the paid product. You don't get support for it either way, but you don't have to pay for the client licenses. Since CALs are one-time expenses for BB's, this might not affect you.
 
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