Endive Wombat: I honestly do not know what else they can innovate that suddenly makes them more relevant that Google or Apple.

If they really wanted to get in tight with the business world, they could take Android (it's open-source), and combine it with serious enterprise management tools. Basically AD/Group Policy for mobile. Push app-updates from IT. Forced VPN settings. SOX-compliant logging. Remote help for 70-year-old idjits who won't retire but still want tech at hand. All that direction. It's a niche, but not a small one. Windows Phone isn't doing much of that, either.

Or, that was the opportunity they had. That opportunity has sailed, though. Since their IT wings didn't keep up and everyone wanted an iPhone, many companies have largely acceded to the 'whatever' security of Bring Your Own Device. GMail and Dropbox and everything else just keep creeping in everywhere.

I have a $20 bet with a friend who works at RIM. My money's on BB10 being good but "too little, too late", and RIM's shareholders eventually selling the BES and IP off, probably to Microsoft. MS might not be interested at that point however, as Activesync is almost good enough, and MS is, technologically, on a roll with Winphone 8.

Die already please.

I'll always prefer their trackpad over touchscreen. Too bad the market went the other way and so too did RIM.

CoD: RIM shot.

lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support. Bberries are not smartphones, they are phones with a PIM and a real kb. That's all I want in a phone, not a game or video console.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of both markets have more demands than that, demands which are better satisfied by a myriad of their competitors, and thus RIM are stuck in their current predicament.

lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.

I'm stuck with my Bold until sometime next summer (or, until I smash it with a hammer).

For a phone, I think it works pretty well. I prefer the real keyboard (I do HATE the clicking though) and the trackpad over touch screen.

My main issue is with the browser and internet capabilities. I have to look stuff up for work on my phone a lot; half the time, sites crash the browser for being "too large". What kind of shiatty browser are they rolling out with their phones?

My brother has a dirt-old Blackberry Curve from his work. He figured he'd look up information on BB 10 on the device so he could decide if he wanted to upgrade to that or some other phone. The site first caused the browser to crash, then the phone. I think he's done with BB.

Lsherm: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

We just got done moving all of our users, 45,000 of them, to Google. The largest complaint by far is Google Calendar. I don't understand why Google can't manage to replicate Exchange functionality, it shouldn't be that difficult.

Still, having Google manage the mail problems is worth having a shiatty calendar, and we're saving over 6 million a year.

Exchange is the most stable product that has ever come out of Microsoft, A lot of money and work has gone into making that possible. It would take google a while to catch up to that. Not saying it can't be done but it's not easy even for google.

\Exchange admin
\\powershell junkie
\\\loves 2012

It is so farking easy to fix RIM that I don't understand why people don't get it....

First things first - realize what your biggest market advantage is, and know that it's not BBM, or BES or the fact that it's a "business" phone. That's stupid. Your biggest market advantage is you are basically the only phone out there with a phyiscal keyboard, and you need to use that to retain your customers. There are still TONS of people out there who continue to buy Blackberries because they don't like the touchscreen keyboard, but they're slowly making their way over because BBs suck balls otherwise.

All RIM needs to do is create a smartphone that is as nice and awesome as the Samsung Galaxy series or the iPhone series, and put a physical keyboard attachment at the bottom. Sell them together and BOOM - you've retained basically your entire customer base, and you may even attract some new ones. It wouldn't be a "tall" phone by any means (think iPhone 4 height, but with the attachment, it would still likely be smaller than the Galaxy S3).

Oh, and pay someone a lot of money to do some real marketing for you, because otherwise you're just going to have another product that no one knows anything about.

In the consumer market, RIM is done. They may still have a chance in the Enterprise market, if they can get a superior, must-have product for iOS/WinMo/Android management. Otherwise, as has been alluded to above, ActiveSync is "good enough" for most places.

/Farewell, Nortel 2.0.

R.A.Danny: I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.

RIM doesn't have a Steve Jobs returning to yank their heads out of their asses.

homarjr: It is so farking easy to fix RIM that I don't understand why people don't get it....

First things first - realize what your biggest market advantage is, and know that it's not BBM, or BES or the fact that it's a "business" phone. That's stupid. Your biggest market advantage is you are basically the only phone out there with a phyiscal keyboard, and you need to use that to retain your customers. There are still TONS of people out there who continue to buy Blackberries because they don't like the touchscreen keyboard, but they're slowly making their way over because BBs suck balls otherwise.

All RIM needs to do is create a smartphone that is as nice and awesome as the Samsung Galaxy series or the iPhone series, and put a physical keyboard attachment at the bottom. Sell them together and BOOM - you've retained basically your entire customer base, and you may even attract some new ones. It wouldn't be a "tall" phone by any means (think iPhone 4 height, but with the attachment, it would still likely be smaller than the Galaxy S3).

Oh, and pay someone a lot of money to do some real marketing for you, because otherwise you're just going to have another product that no one knows anything about.

Soooooo, do you read the news? Cause that's pretty much exactly what they're doing. Like almost word for word.

Sounds like MS should buy BB for its BES, integrate the best parts, use a new Win8 platform and completely own Business and Enterprise.

homarjr: It is so farking easy to fix RIM that I don't understand why people don't get it....

First things first - realize what your biggest market advantage is, and know that it's not BBM, or BES or the fact that it's a "business" phone. That's stupid. Your biggest market advantage is you are basically the only phone out there with a phyiscal keyboard, and you need to use that to retain your customers. There are still TONS of people out there who continue to buy Blackberries because they don't like the touchscreen keyboard, but they're slowly making their way over because BBs suck balls otherwise.

All RIM needs to do is create a smartphone that is as nice and awesome as the Samsung Galaxy series or the iPhone series, and put a physical keyboard attachment at the bottom. Sell them together and BOOM - you've retained basically your entire customer base, and you may even attract some new ones. It wouldn't be a "tall" phone by any means (think iPhone 4 height, but with the attachment, it would still likely be smaller than the Galaxy S3).

Oh, and pay someone a lot of money to do some real marketing for you, because otherwise you're just going to have another product that no one knows anything about.

there are, and have been android phones which have a keyboard. I've had 2 of them.

Lsherm: Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.

I'm not sure if it's a BB specific feature, but the "auto conference dial" for calendar appointments is a farking awesome feature. When you get a reminder for a calender appointment, if there's a conference bridge number anywhere in the appointment it will dial it automatically, wait for the pause, then enter the code. It's about as hands-free as you can possibly get for a remote meeting.

Also not sure if it's a BB only feature, but creating conference calls on the fly using the phone is a pretty big plus. Multiple select people in your address book, hit the menu key, and choose "create conference" and it dials everybody and creates a conference call on your phone. I hate my BB, but I use that feature a farkton.

Those are definitely BB specific features. Definitely sound like some cool things to have.


Babwa Wawa: Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

Well, I can set my out of office reply from my mobile on a BB, but not an iPhone. The Apple client implements only a portion of the ActiveSync API. Apple pretty much just cares about top level features. More importantly, BES is simply more reliable and less buggy for less widely used features like calendaring. Every single one of my colleagues who use an iPhone complain of issues syncing calendar. I had one for 3 months, and a decent percentage of calendar items simply would not show up on my iPhone. The various Android ActiveSync clients are just sh*t.

Only Microsoft and BB care about calendaring, because they're the ones who have meaningful enterprise customers.

It is probably because I've been using Windows Phones, but those features have both been working flawlessly on my recent phones. OOO auto-replies work especially well because I get the option to set different wording for internal and external replies.

Lsherm: Mad_Radhu: Those are definitely BB specific features. Definitely sound like some cool things to have.

Well that's a little depressing, because I use those all the time. Someone should get to work to duplicate it. It's balls out awesome for people who don't have an office.

If you're in Redmond, maybe you can pass the suggestion up the chain *wink wink*

Unfortunately, I don't work for that particular company in Redmond, but I do occasionally work with them so I might be able to say a few.

Sorta off-topic, but I'm looking to buy a new cell phone in the next few weeks, and one of the operators here is having a promotion on the Motorola RAZR HD. Anyone have any experience with this phone, good or bad? Reviews are positive but not beaming, so I was wondering if any of you had any input.

It's tough to decide, really. The iPhone 5 is right out, because even though the design and build quality are apparently excellent (A) maps are still broken, and that's one functionality I use all the time, (B) it's still way, way too expensive to get one with enough storage for what I use it for, even with the new-contract subsidy, and (C) Apple still hasn't come out with one that works on French 4G frequencies.

On the other hand, I really like the functionality of the Samsung Galaxy SIII and everything I've heard says its a great phone, but it is OMGHUEG sized and the plastic case just feels cheap.

Go RIM, I'll need something to replace my 9100 soon...

Played with both versions (touch & keyboard models) of the new hardware a couple weeks ago. Seems solid, I like the interface. Hopefully it will resonate with the public, I'll pick one up regardless, not sure how many others will though.

Hey I know, maybe HP could buy them!

R.A.Danny: Shostie: R.A.Danny: I guess it is possible. Apple made a fairly decent comeback.

Theoretically, I guess.

I don't want to throw around phrases like "death-spiral" out there willy-nilly, but RIM hasn't been doing very well for a while now.

No argument whatsoever. Businesses LOVE Blackberrys and BES though and the promise of control and support of IOS and Android devices in the near future has a lot of shops taking another look.

Hey Grandpa get with the times Business "use" to like Blackberry's. Have you by chance seen all the government organizations in the last year or two coming out and openly announcing that they are kicking all the Blackberry's to the curb? (NTSB, ICE)

I manage wireless devices for a Fortune 500 company and we got rid of our BES at the beginning of this year simply because the cost of it was not worth it and the devices were utter junk. We became a full blown Apple shop for corporate users and non corporate users can attach either their android or iOS device to our Mobileiron security appliance. Much like the BES of old days new mobile device appliances like Mobileiron or Airwatch give you functionality much like you previously had so our IT security group could sign off on us moving to those devices.

I have a friend here in Dallas who works at the RIM headquarters for the US and they just got their walking papers because of how little demand they are needed. About a week ago a report came out and said that RIM only has a 1.6 percent market share in the mobile space. It is shrinking monthly and getting worse.

RIM does have one last shot with the BB10 devices, they better be solid and a complete 180 from the current slow, random rebooting nightmare phones they are selling. RIM's integration with iOS and android came in the way of a MDM client called Fusion which was part of a recent acquisition of a German company who is in the mobile device space. I have heard nothing but bad things about it from everyone who has tried it out.

It will be interesting to see how RIM goes forward but from everything I know about the company and how it works internally I doubt they have a fighting chance. I actually interviewed their and was offered a decently high paying gig but I walked away because RIM was at the start of this huge death spiral, now I look at everything and I am so glad I didn't make the move. All I can say is good luck RIM you are going to need it.

lohphat: Mad_Radhu: lohphat: How about stable and reliable enterprise group calendaring support.

For the last two companies we have been at, Exchange works just fine Calendaring and PIM. I've never used a BlackBerry, so pardon my ignorance, but what can a BES do calendar-wise that an Android /iOS/Windows Phone handset CAN'T do? I was under the impression that the BES mainly just acted as a middleman for Exchange and the BlackBerry for most companies, anyway, so Exchange calendaring features would always be a superset of BlackBerry features for most users.

Non BES integration is very buggy (see iOS Exchange calendaring bug which took out entire corp scheduling systems). Android has its share of bugs too because of the market fragmentation -- almost every device's Android build is unique and thus bugs everywhere.

Often on non-BES phones you can't do a group invite or if you deleted a meeting it never sent the cancellation to the other attendees or booked room to release it.

BES was an MDM solution before its time. Now Mobile Iron, Zenprise, AirWatch, etc. can block apps do remote screen support, inventory, push apps, central policy push, etc. but it comes at a premium.

the iOS calendaring bug was cleared up in iOS 6.0.1. You also can use Meraki's free MDM management tool if you want to, it also works with laptops which is pretty interesting.

R.A.Danny: No argument whatsoever. Businesses LOVE Blackberrys and BES though and the promise of control and support of IOS and Android devices in the near future has a lot of shops taking another look.

Tools to mange iOS based devices just like Blackberries have existed for at least three years. And businesses don't "love" blackberrys. Its just been the tool of choice for this application for a while with no viable competitors. Now that there is an actual alternative - organizations are abandoning them in droves.

Another Fortune 500 company here that is getting rid of Blackberries.

Really, how stupid is it that you have to run TWO BES servers... one for pre-os10 devices, and a completely different one for version 10 and up. Nail in the coffin right there.

Android/iOS/WP8 shop now.