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(Talking Points Memo)   Jon Stewart sums up the fiscal cliff quite nicely: "There's an asteroid headed towards the Earth. We made it and fired it at ourselves"   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 123
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2474 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Nov 2012 at 10:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-30 10:42:16 AM
If you want to go with the analogy of an asteroid, we built a 100 meter long asteroid and shot it at ourself to hit in 2013 while a 10 mile asteroid will hit us in 2035. If we can't deal with the small asteroid we created then were boned over the larger one.

If we don't deal with it now then one day we'll we'll be forced like Greece. Its not about today's finances. Its about the unsustainability of the federal budget.
 
2012-11-30 10:42:17 AM
There should be a tax on whining about tax rates. If the rich guys had to pay a dollar for every time they biatched about their taxes, our budget would have a gigantic surplus, and in the future, we'd never have to hear them biatch again.

I can only dream...
 
2012-11-30 10:43:41 AM

MFK: we should've raised them 10 years ago when we started going to war but nooooooo.


Swee'babyjeezus this.
 
2012-11-30 10:43:55 AM

thurstonxhowell: Giltric: 400 billion over 10 years is not enough...

Then the Republicans should suggest some more instead of whining that the Democrats don't do it for them.


Sort of like how the democrats version of presenting a budget is seeing what the republicans come up with and criticizing it without presenting one of their own?
 
2012-11-30 10:44:25 AM

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: There should be a tax on whining about tax rates. If the rich guys had to pay a dollar for every time they biatched about their taxes, our budget would have a gigantic surplus, and in the future, we'd never have to hear them biatch again.


That sounds like it would be a very effective feedback loop..
 
2012-11-30 10:44:30 AM

Giltric: I just spent 70k overhauling a king air....and 30k on landscaping before thanksgiving..... Whens the last time a poor person did that....

Keep pretending the wealthy dont spend a dime though.


That was an impressive straw man you built in such a short time.

Please quote the part of my post where I said the rich don't spend a dime though.

What I actually said was:

un4gvn666: who the hell do you think purchases all of the things that drive demand, and therefore, create jobs?


The rich may spend money, but they aren't the primary drivers of demand.
 
2012-11-30 10:45:05 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: It's easy to say "we really need to cut Defense", but when the plan to do so comes along suddenly it's a "fiscal cliff!!111!" and has to be avoided at all costs. We absolutely need the Bush Tax Cuts to expire, and we absolutely need Defense to be cut. I'm willing to pay slightly higher taxes to make that happen.


Uh, no. Obama directed the Pentagon to prepare a plan in which their budget would remain fixed for at least five years by cutting programs and waste internally BEFORE the debt ceiling bullshiat started. Conceding to let some cuts become part of the "nuclear option" was the Republicans' way of trying to assure no cuts happened.
 
2012-11-30 10:46:07 AM

Mrbogey: If you want to go with the analogy of an asteroid, we built a 100 meter long asteroid and shot it at ourself to hit in 2013 while a 10 mile asteroid will hit us in 2035. If we can't deal with the small asteroid we created then were boned over the larger one.

If we don't deal with it now then one day we'll we'll be forced like Greece. Its not about today's finances. Its about the unsustainability of the federal budget.


Why deal with something today that we can put off to tomorrow?
 
2012-11-30 10:47:16 AM

bulldg4life: Giltric: Did those 1st year maceoeconomics students eventually buy a house they could afford based on potential raises they might recieve over the course of employment while holding the note?

POOR PEOPLE BOUGHT HOUSES!


With REFRIGERATORS in them!
 
2012-11-30 10:47:18 AM

un4gvn666: Giltric: I just spent 70k overhauling a king air....and 30k on landscaping before thanksgiving..... Whens the last time a poor person did that....

Keep pretending the wealthy dont spend a dime though.

That was an impressive straw man you built in such a short time.

Please quote the part of my post where I said the rich don't spend a dime though.

What I actually said was: un4gvn666: who the hell do you think purchases all of the things that drive demand, and therefore, create jobs?

The rich may spend money, but they aren't the primary drivers of demand.


certain industries, they do
 
2012-11-30 10:47:21 AM

Giltric: thurstonxhowell: Giltric: 400 billion over 10 years is not enough...

Then the Republicans should suggest some more instead of whining that the Democrats don't do it for them.

Sort of like how the democrats version of presenting a budget is seeing what the republicans come up with and criticizing it without presenting one of their own?


You sure got me. You're right. The Republicans should just keep yelling at the Democrats for not bargaining against themselves. Good point.
 
2012-11-30 10:47:59 AM

un4gvn666: Giltric: I just spent 70k overhauling a king air....and 30k on landscaping before thanksgiving..... Whens the last time a poor person did that....

Keep pretending the wealthy dont spend a dime though.

That was an impressive straw man you built in such a short time.

Please quote the part of my post where I said the rich don't spend a dime though.

What I actually said was: un4gvn666: who the hell do you think purchases all of the things that drive demand, and therefore, create jobs?

The rich may spend money, but they aren't the primary drivers of demand.


If every rich person spent 2x as much as every poor person, the poors would outspend the rich by about 3-5x.

// WE SURROUND THEM
 
2012-11-30 10:49:52 AM

thurstonxhowell: Giltric: thurstonxhowell: Giltric: 400 billion over 10 years is not enough...

Then the Republicans should suggest some more instead of whining that the Democrats don't do it for them.

Sort of like how the democrats version of presenting a budget is seeing what the republicans come up with and criticizing it without presenting one of their own?

You sure got me. You're right. The Republicans should just keep yelling at the Democrats for not bargaining against themselves. Good point.


But you are upset the republicans arent bargaining against themselves.......that sounds like nuanced concern.
 
2012-11-30 10:52:43 AM
If FISCAL CLIFF!1! wasn't splashed all over the news potato hours a day, would this be an actual crisis?
 
2012-11-30 10:53:53 AM

Dr Dreidel:
I also caught an interesting fact on WTOP yesterday evening - apparently, the US is one of the only first-world countries (if not the only one) that still has a mortgage interest deduction. Yes, it'd suck if we got rid of it, especially for new homeowners, but it appears that the rest of the developed world does just fine.


The worst thing about the mortgage deduction is that it doesnt even make homes more affordable, as people factor it in to their budget when deciding which home to buy. For a given level of demand it just raises house prices. It's essentially a taxpayer funded giveaway to realtors and banks.

But if we go cold turkey we'll almost certainly see another foreclosure crisis due to anyone who bought a house in the last ~10 years being hit with much higher taxes coupled with the reduction in home equity due directly to the subsidy cuts. It needs to go, but it needs to be phased out.
 
2012-11-30 10:53:56 AM

Giltric: thurstonxhowell: Giltric: thurstonxhowell: Giltric: 400 billion over 10 years is not enough...

Then the Republicans should suggest some more instead of whining that the Democrats don't do it for them.

Sort of like how the democrats version of presenting a budget is seeing what the republicans come up with and criticizing it without presenting one of their own?

You sure got me. You're right. The Republicans should just keep yelling at the Democrats for not bargaining against themselves. Good point.

But you are upset the republicans arent bargaining against themselves.......that sounds like nuanced concern.


How would proposing spending cuts be bargaining against themselves? Are Republicans against those? Remember, that's what I think should be done here. Democrats come to the table with an offer full of things they like, Republicans come to the table with an offer full of things they like, and a compromise is reached. You know... bargaining.
 
2012-11-30 10:56:58 AM

qorkfiend:
I think that if they do it, it'll be phased out over a fairly long timespan, something like five or ten years, so as to avoid exactly the kind of problem you describe.

Though, honestly, I don't think it'll happen; the mortgage interest deduction is too helpful to too many people.


First thing we should phase out - mortgage deduction for any property other than your primary residence. That won't affect the middle class.
 
2012-11-30 10:57:40 AM

qorkfiend: DRFS Rich: Dr Dreidel:>
I also caught an interesting fact on WTOP yesterday evening - apparently, the US is one of the only first-world countries (if not the only one) that still has a mortgage interest deduction. Yes, it'd suck if we got rid of it, especially for new homeowners, but it appears that the rest of the developed world does just fine.

The M.I. deduction saves me a grand or two in taxes each year. I would hate to see it go, but if it's going to substantially improve the economy and our fiscal future I can accept it.

What I can't accept is discussion of it this late in the tax season. If this is going to happen, it needs to be announced before April 16th for the following tax year.

If you're going to pull the rug out from a lot of middle-class folks on this, they need time to prepare accordingly.

I think that if they do it, it'll be phased out over a fairly long timespan, something like five or ten years, so as to avoid exactly the kind of problem you describe.

Though, honestly, I don't think it'll happen; the mortgage interest deduction is too helpful to too many people.


And getting rid of it would crash a housing market that's only now starting to recover.
 
2012-11-30 10:59:31 AM

FlashHarry: this is 100 percent the fault of the republicans. one. hundred. percent.


In fairness to Bohner, he owned up to 98% of that responsibility immediately.
 
2012-11-30 11:01:03 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: un4gvn666: Giltric: I just spent 70k overhauling a king air....and 30k on landscaping before thanksgiving..... Whens the last time a poor person did that....

Keep pretending the wealthy dont spend a dime though.

That was an impressive straw man you built in such a short time.

Please quote the part of my post where I said the rich don't spend a dime though.

What I actually said was: un4gvn666: who the hell do you think purchases all of the things that drive demand, and therefore, create jobs?

The rich may spend money, but they aren't the primary drivers of demand.

certain industries, they do


Keep moving those goalposts. Just a little further. You've almost got it.
 
2012-11-30 11:06:18 AM

incendi: MFK: we should've raised them 10 years ago when we started going to war but nooooooo.

Swee'babyjeezus this.


Bush sure was an innovator. The only leader in history to go war on completely on credit.

But, it's the libs who are irresponsible spendthrifts.
 
2012-11-30 11:06:28 AM

cman: He made a good point.

He was spot on in pointing out the bullshiat.

Too bad this will fall on deaf ears more focused on the blame-game over, you know, actually fixing the problem


To fix the problem, the people who are to blame need to, you know, stop being to blame.

But naw, BSABSVR.
 
2012-11-30 11:07:23 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: It's easy to say "we really need to cut Defense", but when the plan to do so comes along suddenly it's a "fiscal cliff!!111!" and has to be avoided at all costs. We absolutely need the Bush Tax Cuts to expire, and we absolutely need Defense to be cut. I'm willing to pay slightly higher taxes to make that happen.

I say bring on the fiscal cliff.


Gotta raise the AMT, or it'll nail people making $200K-$500k a lot more than the tax raise would.
Also, it would be nice to keep Pell Grants going*.

Everything else we can handle.

*Not sure why this would eliminate Pell Grants. It's just insurance for loans that are far harder to get rid of than standard loans. You'd think that wouldn't cost much.
 
2012-11-30 11:13:41 AM

bulldg4life: Giltric: Obama said 5 million jobs were created in the last 4 years.......he even used those numbers in his campaign.
You dont thonk the poors created those jobs....do you?

Does it make your eye twitch when you say something so idiotic that first year college students taking macro economics would laugh at you


To me there is a false assumption that the solution lies somewhere between the DNC and GOP positions. The assumption that a balanced budget leads to a strong economy. It is a strong economy that causes a balanced budget. You build a strong economy by investing it in.

The US should spend a minimum of $2T in pure education and infrastructure spending over the next 10 years combine with gradual taxes increases to pre-Reagan era tax rates. This type of approach would balance the budget faster than anything being discussed today.
 
2012-11-30 11:14:13 AM

ghare: cman: He made a good point.

He was spot on in pointing out the bullshiat.

Too bad this will fall on deaf ears more focused on the blame-game over, you know, actually fixing the problem

To fix the problem, the people who are to blame need to, you know, stop being to blame.

But naw, BSABSVR.


When even John Stewart of all people calls his own side on their bullshiat, even you have got to agree that he may have a point. But go ahead, keep preaching BSABSVR.

We need to stop acting like children and act like adults. I am saying this to everyone. fark the blame game, that shiat wont get us anywhere. We need to be more diplomatic and far less aggressive.
 
2012-11-30 11:16:15 AM
Let the cliff come and go.

Use the surplus to hire people & keep unemployment low. Government workers buy as much consumer crap as anyone else, should be enough to keep the economy from tanking. None of those "contractors" either. When you hire a contractor, half the money goes to the company doing the work in pure profits. No help to the economy at all. I'm talking about full-time permanent government employees. Knowing they will still have a job in the future means they will feel even more free to spend and keep the economy humming along.

/yes, I'm serious
 
2012-11-30 11:17:03 AM

Giltric: thurstonxhowell: Giltric: thurstonxhowell: Giltric: 400 billion over 10 years is not enough...

Then the Republicans should suggest some more instead of whining that the Democrats don't do it for them.

Sort of like how the democrats version of presenting a budget is seeing what the republicans come up with and criticizing it without presenting one of their own?

You sure got me. You're right. The Republicans should just keep yelling at the Democrats for not bargaining against themselves. Good point.

But you are upset the republicans arent bargaining against themselves.......that sounds like nuanced concern.


I guess you won't mind explaining what the GOP's offer is then. I don't remember them bringing anything to the table so far. How can they bargain with themselves if they've offered NOTHING?

Unless you think an offer of spending cuts with no tax increases is an offer, in which case you and your state's GOP representative you're dry humping are both utterly devoid of sanity.
 
2012-11-30 11:22:26 AM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: *Not sure why this would eliminate Pell Grants. It's just insurance for loans that are far harder to get rid of than standard loans. You'd think that wouldn't cost much.


Pell Grants aren't loans or insurance for loans. They're grants. Pell Grants, to be exact.
 
2012-11-30 11:23:09 AM

un4gvn666: BTW, not necessarily directed at you, Giltric, just anyone who might genuinely be thinking like that.


Spoiler alert: he is
 
2012-11-30 11:25:58 AM

cman: ghare: cman: He made a good point.

He was spot on in pointing out the bullshiat.

Too bad this will fall on deaf ears more focused on the blame-game over, you know, actually fixing the problem

To fix the problem, the people who are to blame need to, you know, stop being to blame.

But naw, BSABSVR.

When even John Stewart of all people calls his own side on their bullshiat, even you have got to agree that he may have a point. But go ahead, keep preaching BSABSVR.

We need to stop acting like children and act like adults. I am saying this to everyone. fark the blame game, that shiat wont get us anywhere. We need to be more diplomatic and far less aggressive.


Yeah, fark the blame game and those children who are spouting bullshiat. Why can't those shiatty morons realize that we need to be less divisive?
 
2012-11-30 11:34:04 AM
This shouldn't be an issue.

Any reasonable economic model would look at the situation we are in and say we need both substantially increased revenue and substantial spending cuts in order to fix our problems. We also need massive entitlement reform. This is all given to any sane individual.

Tax increases are needed across the board, not just at the federal level. Local governments are strapped across the country not because of graft or poor spending (though these are certainly problems in certain communities), but because the demand for services far outweighs the amount of money paid for them. Years of lowering and eliminating property taxes have crippled municipalities ability to maintain basic roads, schools, and emergency services while the development of more and larger roads/wider spread suburban communities/less dense populations as folks move to single family homes only increases the costs of upkeep as the total area gets more spread out while revenue decreases as densities drop. If America wants to maintain the local needs for the basic standards of living we want, we simply have to pay more.

Cutting spending at the Federal Level, and raising taxes at the Federal Level, are a pair of things that need to be implemented carefully, but you do need both. Income disparity combined with a ballooning national debt are serious concerns, and one that every possible solution should be pursued, not just politically pedant ones. Every possible action that can be taken should be, and taking either off the table is not only irresponsible, but just plain bad governance. Similarly, entitlement reform needs to be addressed, specifically increasing the retirement age and the eligibility ages for such programs to what they were designed for. Social Security was intended to be used for the last 5 to 10 years of life, not the last 20 to 30. Americans are living longer, and working longer, and entitlements need to be adjusted in a fair and incremental way to address this.

The tax break on the first $250,000 earned is something I would personally like to see stay because it would be very useful to extend for another year or two to keep the recovery from the recession from being reversed. Everyone gets these benefits, even the wealthy, they just don't get additional tax breaks for their massive amounts of money above it. Ultimately, the changes in spending of the top earners really will not be noticeable with increased taxes, they will still be investing, building, and making great decisions that will stimulate and grow our economy (and anyone who suggests they would simply pack up and go home probably lacks the understanding that there is nowhere else in the world that they could go to have a better setup even without the Bush Tax Cuts). However, the lower brackets under $250,000 will see a very real and difficult change in their ability to buy and spend as their paychecks decrease. Eventually this needs to happen, but as we are in a very slow recovery from one of the worst recessions in history, now is not the best time to be considering slowing demand on the market. Two, Three, Four, or Five years from now? Probably. But for now it wouldn't be expedient.

Ultimately, we need the Republicans to start acting as a governing body and less as a sports team. Winning elections is critical, but people are more likely to vote for you across the isle if you actually start working to help the county, rather than working to help your party. A perfect example of this is Chris Christie, who is 100% safe in his office, or most future offices, because he focuses more on governing than he does on party (regardless of if you like his policies).
 
2012-11-30 11:34:52 AM
One glaring problem in that segment for me: Stewart quoted Boehner directly for the Republican side then relied on Larry Kudlow to describe the Democratic position. It seemed designed to setup a false equivalence.
 
2012-11-30 11:36:37 AM

Lumpmoose: One glaring problem in that segment for me: Stewart quoted Boehner directly for the Republican side then relied on Larry Kudlow to describe the Democratic position. It seemed designed to setup a false equivalence.


When it comes to skewing things in the Republican favor, aint no one a better mouthpiece than John Stewart. He is the biggest Republican of all time
 
2012-11-30 11:37:40 AM

Jackson Herring: un4gvn666: BTW, not necessarily directed at you, Giltric, just anyone who might genuinely be thinking like that.

Spoiler alert: he is


Yeah, I found out just a little too late. I genuinely thought anyone using "the poors" in a sentence was just outright trolling/snarking.

/would that be like reverse Poe's Law? I can't even figure it out anymore
 
2012-11-30 11:48:29 AM

cman: Lumpmoose: One glaring problem in that segment for me: Stewart quoted Boehner directly for the Republican side then relied on Larry Kudlow to describe the Democratic position. It seemed designed to setup a false equivalence.

When it comes to skewing things in the Republican favor, aint no one a better mouthpiece than John Stewart. He is the biggest Republican of all time


Stewart should have quoted Durbin in a newspaper article if they couldn't find video. They've done it before. Kudlow is exactly the pundit crank that Stewart would normally rail against. It tainted the segment, IMHO.
 
2012-11-30 11:49:18 AM

un4gvn666: Yeah, I found out just a little too late. I genuinely thought anyone using "the poors" in a sentence was just outright trolling/snarking.


Years too late, I would say.
 
2012-11-30 11:50:12 AM

Jackson Herring: un4gvn666: Yeah, I found out just a little too late. I genuinely thought anyone using "the poors" in a sentence was just outright trolling/snarking.

Years too late, I would say.


LOL, guess I need to LURK MOAR
 
2012-11-30 11:53:08 AM

qorkfiend: the mortgage interest deduction is too helpful to too many people.


The only people it has been "Helpful" to are those that bought their house prior to it's creation, and have subsequently sold it at the higher market price the credit enabled people to pay.

For other homeowners it is neutral. For renters it is hurtful.

But the bankers LOVE it, so it will probably stay.
 
2012-11-30 11:58:09 AM

Cubicle Jockey: For renters it is hurtful.


Between more people shifting from owners to renters, and owners paying monthly payments with no equity (effectively renting), I don't see where all this pain associated with ending the mortgage interest deduction comes from, if not from the wealthy.
 
2012-11-30 12:04:26 PM

Giltric: thurstonxhowell: Giltric: 400 billion over 10 years is not enough...

Then the Republicans should suggest some more instead of whining that the Democrats don't do it for them.

Sort of like how the democrats version of presenting a budget is seeing what the republicans come up with and criticizing it without presenting one of their own?


Obama's had a budget proposal each of the last four years. Step out of the bubble. It's actually kind of nice out here in reality.
 
2012-11-30 12:04:29 PM
Am I the only person who feels like the fiscal cliff really isn't that big of a deal? I mean it would definitely be better to have the spending cuts more specifically targeted. And I personally could do without the payroll tax hike. But we need more revenue, and defense cuts aren't a bad idea. So let's just go off the farking cliff and quit farking biatching about it.
 
2012-11-30 12:08:30 PM

Oerath: Am I the only person who feels like the fiscal cliff really isn't that big of a deal? I mean it would definitely be better to have the spending cuts more specifically targeted. And I personally could do without the payroll tax hike. But we need more revenue, and defense cuts aren't a bad idea. So let's just go off the farking cliff and quit farking biatching about it.


From what I understand, a double dip recession is a possibility, but I honestly agree with you. We need to suck it up and accept responsibility for the fiscally irresponsible conservative government we've put together over the last 30 years. Since Republicans refuse to allow a measured and thoughtful approach, just scorched-earth the farking thing and be done with it. Americans will adapt like they always do.
 
2012-11-30 12:10:02 PM

mrshowrules:

The US should spend a minimum of $2T in pure education and infrastructure spending over the next 10 years combine with gradual taxes increases to pre-Reagan era tax rates. This type of approach would balance the budget faster than anything being discussed today.


I agree. If we could peg the wage level for that spending at today's median income, you'd get some support for that. However, the Teacher's and Construction trades would never allow that, so our modern day WPA will never happen. Not because Republicans would never fund it, but because the Democrat Labor base would never allow a laborer to paint a bridge for $20 per hour.

Current Davis Bacon/Prevailing Wage Laws, by all means, look into them. Find out just what a NJ painter on a government funded project NEEDS to be paid.
 
2012-11-30 12:14:18 PM
It's crossing the border from amusing to pathetic that you people are actually upset that the two parties "won't come together and fix the problem."

Neither of them care about fixing anything; only winning.
 
2012-11-30 12:15:01 PM
If they are screwing with the M.I., why not just gradually cut it over 3 years or so. Keep a small portion of it. Seems much more sane then hacking the whole thing at once. As far as defense contractors go, evolve your product and prove your worth please.
 
2012-11-30 12:16:08 PM

Giltric: I just spent 70k overhauling a king air....and 30k on landscaping before thanksgiving..... Whens the last time a poor person did that....

Keep pretending the wealthy dont spend a dime though.


Sorry, gotta pile on this.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you're in the 1%. So there are 99 "poor" people for every one of you, and that includes middle class families, etc. Each family in the "poor" category would only need to spend $1000 to match what you've spent in your two projects. Let's see. Oh, look this family bought a car that cost $15,000 dollars. And this family bought a new refrigerator at $1200. And these guys bought a new TV at $1300. And this family did a $2000 landscaping project. And so on, and so on.


In the end, which group spent more money across more industries that supported more jobs? The 1% or the "poor"?

I'll give you a hint: It ain't you.

/In the "poor" category
//Also spent $30K on landscaping
///
 
2012-11-30 12:32:06 PM

FlashHarry: this is 100 percent the fault of the republicans. one. hundred. percent.

if they would have simply passed the debt ceiling raise - as they have dozens of times before - there would be no "fiscal cliff." the debt ceiling raise simply authorizes congress to pay for spending it has already passed. it is what's known as a "pro forma" vote - a formality. or so it was up until last year, when republicans decided to hold the nation hostage by threatening not to pay our bills. and what did we get for their farking childish petulance? a credit downgrade, a market drop, and the fiscal farking cliff.

fark the republicans. fark all of them. they OWN this.


they will pay for it in the midterms. unless things change, I can see a nice blue tied washing over the country. either that, or some very purple Republicans coming out of the woodwork.
 
2012-11-30 12:45:08 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: mrshowrules:

The US should spend a minimum of $2T in pure education and infrastructure spending over the next 10 years combine with gradual taxes increases to pre-Reagan era tax rates. This type of approach would balance the budget faster than anything being discussed today.

I agree. If we could peg the wage level for that spending at today's median income, you'd get some support for that. However, the Teacher's and Construction trades would never allow that, so our modern day WPA will never happen. Not because Republicans would never fund it, but because the Democrat Labor base would never allow a laborer to paint a bridge for $20 per hour.

Current Davis Bacon/Prevailing Wage Laws, by all means, look into them. Find out just what a NJ painter on a government funded project NEEDS to be paid.


I would argue the US problem is that there are not enough people making union-level wages. Hire more teachers and pay the best ones even more. Government should not be fighting unions to beat down wages, they should be fighting unions to fire the teachers not producing results. Pay teachers enough that people will fight for those jobs and the deadbeats won't be able to tough it out or won't enter the field to begin with because it is too competitive.

What does a corporation do when it wants the best programmers?
 
2012-11-30 12:57:26 PM

Giltric: Gwendolyn: zedster: Republicans, you kicked the can down the road hoping you would flip the white house and gain enough votes in the Senate. You failed, the American public rejected your plan. Hell the Ryan plan did more damage to you then it helped. Stop being babies and admit your policies suck. Obama appears to not be folding this time being both a lame duck and having the public on his side.

the only thing that can come from this for the Republicans is a further loss of the senior vote, way to alienate one of your strongest demographics

I can't imagine the republicans gaining much ground with their cut to Medicare and raising the age for social security so they can protect tax cuts for "job creators" who haven't created a farking job in years already.

Obama said 5 million jobs were created in the last 4 years.......he even used those numbers in his campaign.

You dont thonk the poors created those jobs....do you?


They're all too busy firing people and limiting their hours to protest 'ObamaCare' to create any jobs.
 
2012-11-30 12:59:51 PM

Giltric: un4gvn666: Giltric: Gwendolyn: zedster: Republicans, you kicked the can down the road hoping you would flip the white house and gain enough votes in the Senate. You failed, the American public rejected your plan. Hell the Ryan plan did more damage to you then it helped. Stop being babies and admit your policies suck. Obama appears to not be folding this time being both a lame duck and having the public on his side.

the only thing that can come from this for the Republicans is a further loss of the senior vote, way to alienate one of your strongest demographics

I can't imagine the republicans gaining much ground with their cut to Medicare and raising the age for social security so they can protect tax cuts for "job creators" who haven't created a farking job in years already.

Obama said 5 million jobs were created in the last 4 years.......he even used those numbers in his campaign.

You dont thonk the poors created those jobs....do you?

Since we're asking rhetorical questions, who the hell do you think purchases all of the things that drive demand, and therefore, create jobs? The rich, who want for nothing? Or the poor and middle classes, who stretch every dollar to live?

I just spent 70k overhauling a king air....and 30k on landscaping before thanksgiving..... Whens the last time a poor person did that....

Keep pretending the wealthy dont spend a dime though.



Hahaha... and what did that create? 4 or 5 very jobs that lasted a couple of weeks? And how many people are doing that at any given time?

There are 10,000 poor and working class people within five minutes driving distance of you who collectively spend that much on bologna every single week.

One guy buying a private jet or refurbishing his yacht isn't worth shiat, job-creation wise, compared to a ten-thousand buying mid-tier 40" TV's.
 
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