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(Yahoo)   Country singer Trace Adkins says he didn't mean anything by his using a Confederate flag earpiece at the Rockefeller Center tree lighting ceremony, noting that his swastika earpiece was in his other pair of pants   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid, Trace Adkins, Rockefeller Center, USO, hip-huggers, Lacunar amnesia, brightness, pairs  
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8188 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2012 at 11:15 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-30 08:23:10 AM  
"southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.
 
2012-11-30 08:27:08 AM  
I'll forgive him, if he promises to come over to my place for some incredibly hot sexy-time.
 
2012-11-30 08:34:24 AM  

FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.


You shouldn't even have to reach the "slavery" element, since that just opens the door to the argument that there was more to southern culture than slavery, which is of course true. The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.
 
2012-11-30 08:36:42 AM  
If historically accurate wouldn't that be a giant brass ear trumpet?
 
2012-11-30 08:40:46 AM  
Anyone ever heard the phrase "northern heritage" used by anyone?
 
2012-11-30 08:42:47 AM  

kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection


Armed insurrection in support of slavery.
 
2012-11-30 08:44:52 AM  

sigdiamond2000: Anyone ever heard the phrase "northern heritage" used by anyone?


No. But I've heard of the term 'Northern Aggression.' :)
 
2012-11-30 08:54:34 AM  
It symbolizes treason and secession, and more than anything else, being a butthurt loser
 
2012-11-30 08:55:06 AM  
What the hell is an "earpiece?"

I looked at the photos and didn't see anything resembling a flag.
 
2012-11-30 09:00:16 AM  
www.insideedition.com

Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.
 
2012-11-30 09:02:04 AM  
I was deeply offended by Trace Adkins, then later on someone mentioned something about a Confederate flag earpiece.
 
2012-11-30 09:03:56 AM  

the_rev: This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.


I'm not offended by it at all. I never have been. It just brands the person displaying it as a complete f*cking moron who isn't to be taken seriously. It's sort of like a bolo tie in that sense. If anything, it's a good thing. It's a great asshole detection system.
 
2012-11-30 09:06:01 AM  
It's like no one has ever heard Carlin's rant on symbols. You can make a symbol mean anything you want it to mean. Great example: Most people see the Iwo Jima Monument and think of World War II and soldiers. Some think of all the parodies of it. Me? I think of what my girlfriend and I were doing under a blanket on a high school tour bus at the time we drove by it, and how it's still a joke between us. Another example: Some see a Yankees hat and think awesome team. Southerners (and Sox fans, for that matter, for different reasons) see it and think of pushy, self-righteous assholes.

If they want to think of the positive aspects of the flag, I say let 'em. And to those of you who are spouting the "armed insurrection" BS, please read a Constitution and realize what they did was perfectly legal at the time, and is technically still entirely so.
 
2012-11-30 09:08:18 AM  
Hey, the Nazi flag is just celebrating your German heritage. You know, not all of it, just those years they were killing millions of innocent people.

Much like the Confederate battle flag is only from that specific time period when those states were committing treason against the United States, fighting and killing thousands upon thousands of American citizens all to keep slavery to hold onto their economic status quo.

I might buy it more if it had been a symbol of the South from it's very early days and then just adopted as the flag of a secessionist rebel regime.
 
2012-11-30 09:08:48 AM  

the_rev: Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.


THIS. Personally I'm offended that people still think a rebel flag isn't square. But that's why I have a history degree and they don't.
 
2012-11-30 09:10:59 AM  

WorldCitizen: Hey, the Nazi flag is just celebrating your German heritage.


I'm sure the millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Janists who still use swastikas in their religion share your view.
 
2012-11-30 09:11:24 AM  

sigdiamond2000: I'm not offended by it at all. I never have been.


Good. You shouldn't be. Nobody should. It's an inch-wide earplug in a douchy millionaire singer's ear. But yet, we are reading about people tweeting and complaining, and the guy having to make apologies for it, blah blah. The United States of the Offended.
 
2012-11-30 09:14:24 AM  

the_rev: sigdiamond2000: I'm not offended by it at all. I never have been.

Good. You shouldn't be. Nobody should. It's an inch-wide earplug in a douchy millionaire singer's ear. But yet, we are reading about people tweeting and complaining, and the guy having to make apologies for it, blah blah. The United States of the Offended.


I'm offended by shiatty country music. The confederate flag is a symbol of that same shiatty confederate music; therefore, I'm offended by the confederate flag.
 
2012-11-30 09:15:40 AM  

dr_blasto: I'm offended by shiatty country music. The confederate flag is a symbol of that same shiatty confederate music; therefore, I'm offended by the confederate flag.


Well, like I said, some people will bend over backwards to get offended. Have at it.
 
2012-11-30 09:18:05 AM  
The fact that country music has adopted this symbol speaks to the intellectual power that goes into that whole musical culture.
 
2012-11-30 09:18:32 AM  
It's not offensive, it's ignorant. Of course, if someone wants to broadcast their ignorance to the whole world, they are more than free to do so.
 
2012-11-30 09:20:48 AM  
I'm sure he has many blah friends.
 
2012-11-30 09:21:01 AM  

the_rev: dr_blasto: I'm offended by shiatty country music. The confederate flag is a symbol of that same shiatty confederate music; therefore, I'm offended by the confederate flag.

Well, like I said, some people will bend over backwards to get offended. Have at it.


I meant to mention shiatty country music twice. Not shiatty confederate music.

/just don't like modern shiatty country music
 
2012-11-30 09:23:42 AM  

the_rev: Good. You shouldn't be. Nobody should. It's an inch-wide earplug in a douchy millionaire singer's ear. But yet, we are reading about people tweeting and complaining, and the guy having to make apologies for it, blah blah. The United States of the Offended.


This. People make their entire livings off of being offended in this country.
 
2012-11-30 09:26:58 AM  

FriarReb98: the_rev: Good. You shouldn't be. Nobody should. It's an inch-wide earplug in a douchy millionaire singer's ear. But yet, we are reading about people tweeting and complaining, and the guy having to make apologies for it, blah blah. The United States of the Offended.

This. People make their entire livings off of being offended in this country.


Lawyers?
 
2012-11-30 09:29:12 AM  

dr_blasto: /just don't like modern shiatty country music


I prefer to refer to it as "Southern Pop." It belongs with classic country as much as a whale belongs in the middle of Kansas, with Taylor Swift being the (admittedly hot) poster child for why my title is apt.
 
2012-11-30 09:29:28 AM  
I love it when people display their confederate flag swag.

It gives me a visual indication that they are racist d-bags and affords me the opportunity to avoid them.
 
2012-11-30 09:40:01 AM  

FriarReb98: WorldCitizen: Hey, the Nazi flag is just celebrating your German heritage.

I'm sure the millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Janists who still use swastikas in their religion share your view.


I'm not sure that Hindus Buddhists and Janists use the Nazi flag. You realize it's a combination of patterns and not just a swastika, right?
 
2012-11-30 09:40:14 AM  
I don't think the people who buy his albums are the ones complaining. Why does he care?
 
2012-11-30 09:45:53 AM  

WorldCitizen: FriarReb98: WorldCitizen: Hey, the Nazi flag is just celebrating your German heritage.

I'm sure the millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Janists who still use swastikas in their religion share your view.

I'm not sure that Hindus Buddhists and Janists use the Nazi flag. You realize it's a combination of patterns and not just a swastika, right?


So it's a combination of patters that's offensive? In that case, I'm offended by the Nets cheerleaders for having costumes with horizontal AND vertical stripes.
 
2012-11-30 09:51:12 AM  

FriarReb98: I'm sure the millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Janists who still use swastikas in their religion share your view.


Are you the kind of guy who has a Nazi flag tattoo and claim you just intended it as a Buddhist symbol?
 
2012-11-30 09:53:29 AM  

sweetmelissa31: FriarReb98: I'm sure the millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Janists who still use swastikas in their religion share your view.

Are you the kind of guy who has a Nazi flag tattoo and claim you just intended it as a Buddhist symbol?


Ah I should have checked your profile before hand. Complaining about "political correctness"? Check. A whole section about your Caucasian heritage? Check.
 
2012-11-30 09:55:04 AM  
Have we replaced Freeper Friday with Pedant Friday already?
 
2012-11-30 09:55:23 AM  

sweetmelissa31: FriarReb98: I'm sure the millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Janists who still use swastikas in their religion share your view.

Are you the kind of guy who has a Nazi flag tattoo and claim you just intended it as a Buddhist symbol?


Nope, I'm the kind of guy who watched way too much Carlin and had way too many history classes to think that a symbol or word will mean the same thing every time forever and ever. Read my previous posts too.
 
2012-11-30 09:56:00 AM  

Cythraul: I'll forgive him, if he promises to come over to my place for some incredibly hot sexy-time.


This.
 
2012-11-30 09:56:19 AM  

sweetmelissa31: Ah I should have checked your profile before hand. Complaining about "political correctness"? Check. A whole section about your Caucasian heritage? Check.


Too self righteous to read the rest of my posts? Check.
 
2012-11-30 09:56:20 AM  
In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Confederate flags meant {Beavis voice} "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!" {/Beavis voice}

It wasn't until the 90s that Confederate flags started being strongly equated with Slavery and Racism, and an awful lot of folks still think that Confederate flags still mean "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!"

I think those people (what do you mean, those people?) still wear/ use the symbol to "stick it to the libs!"

To educated folks it's a symbol of oppression, to uneducated folks it's a symbol of cool. Screaming at the uneducated that their cool symbol is a hate symbol isn't the way to educate them.

(lived in the North most of my life, in Austin the last two decades, and I haven't owned anything with a Confederate flag on it since being a teenager. Comment added before some dumbass accuses me of "defending the Confederate flag")
 
2012-11-30 10:02:11 AM  

vernonFL: Cythraul: I'll forgive him, if he promises to come over to my place for some incredibly hot sexy-time.

This.


I'd rather Toby Keith.
 
2012-11-30 10:03:05 AM  
And for the record, anyone who is offended by a Confederate Battle Flag but not the Georgia state flag needs a history book on why the state essentially pegged a giant middle finger in the face of the offended and got away with it.
 
2012-11-30 10:04:15 AM  

FriarReb98: Too self righteous to read the rest of my posts? Check.


I read them, and I think you're just being politically correct. It's currently out of fashion to admit being racist, so you claim you're not so people won't be angry at you. 50 or 60 years ago you could proudly call yourself a racist, but now you're just afraid.
 
2012-11-30 10:07:21 AM  
My great grandfather was in the Klan.

I think I'll wear a Klan robe today. 'Cause, you know, heritage.
 
2012-11-30 10:11:40 AM  

FriarReb98: And for the record, anyone who is offended by a Confederate Battle Flag but not the Georgia state flag needs a history book on why the state essentially pegged a giant middle finger in the face of the offended and got away with it.


For the record, I'm not offended by it. There's very little in life that offends me. There's a difference between being offended and just thinking something is stupid and hypocritical.
 
2012-11-30 10:12:03 AM  
My great-great grandparents were shot into a ditch in Belarus because they were Jews.

They had it almost as hard as white Southerners in 2012 who can't wear Confederate flags without being criticized.
 
2012-11-30 10:14:28 AM  
Yet we have no problems with Bayer aspirin, Porsche, Mitsubishi or Hugo Boss.
 
2012-11-30 10:17:46 AM  

vernonFL: Yet we have no problems with Bayer aspirin, Porsche, Mitsubishi or Hugo Boss.


Is anyone claiming to be bothered by any companies based in the former Confederacy?
 
2012-11-30 10:19:59 AM  

Diogenes: My great grandfather was in the Klan.

I think I'll wear a Klan robe today. 'Cause, you know, heritage.


Yours too?
 
2012-11-30 10:22:00 AM  

FriarReb98: dr_blasto: /just don't like modern shiatty country music

I prefer to refer to it as "Southern Pop." It belongs with classic country as much as a whale belongs in the middle of Kansas, with Taylor Swift being the (admittedly hot) poster child for why my title is apt.


Agreed.

Popular Country Music is what we should all be offended by. It's not country, it's pop with violins (fiddle is too country a word to use anymore). It's made by frustrated wannabe popstars, and marketed toward minivan driving soccer moms.

But it is NOT COUNTRY.9

Now, real country music still lives on... they call it Alt Country (among other labels) now. You can find it with some digging... satellite radio, the internet, but you'll never hear real country on TV or FM radio ever again, because it's not as marketable as blonde barbie pop star wannabe shaking her ass and singing her latest girl power anthem.
 
2012-11-30 10:24:26 AM  

sigdiamond2000: Anyone ever heard the phrase "northern heritage" used by anyone?


Yes, but generally with "European" stuck in the middle.
 
2012-11-30 10:24:47 AM  

the_rev: Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.


you you'd be totally cool if it were a swastika?
 
2012-11-30 10:25:41 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: FriarReb98: dr_blasto: /just don't like modern shiatty country music

I prefer to refer to it as "Southern Pop." It belongs with classic country as much as a whale belongs in the middle of Kansas, with Taylor Swift being the (admittedly hot) poster child for why my title is apt.

Agreed.

Popular Country Music is what we should all be offended by. It's not country, it's pop with violins (fiddle is too country a word to use anymore). It's made by frustrated wannabe popstars, and marketed toward minivan driving soccer moms.

But it is NOT COUNTRY.9

Now, real country music still lives on... they call it Alt Country (among other labels) now. You can find it with some digging... satellite radio, the internet, but you'll never hear real country on TV or FM radio ever again, because it's not as marketable as blonde barbie pop star wannabe shaking her ass and singing her latest girl power anthem.



I never thought it would be possible for somebody to be a country music hipster.

/I keed.
 
2012-11-30 10:29:41 AM  

FlashHarry: the_rev: Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.

you you'd be totally cool if it were a swastika?


Yes. I can guarantee with absolute confidence, that if Trace Adkins sticks a one-inch swastika in his ear, I will not give a single fcuck.
 
2012-11-30 10:30:25 AM  

the_rev: FlashHarry: the_rev: Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.

you you'd be totally cool if it were a swastika?

Yes. I can guarantee with absolute confidence, that if Trace Adkins sticks a one-inch swastika in his ear, I will not give a single fcuck.


well, i've got to hand it to you. you're consistent.
 
2012-11-30 10:33:01 AM  

The_Sponge: FirstNationalBastard: FriarReb98: dr_blasto: /just don't like modern shiatty country music

I prefer to refer to it as "Southern Pop." It belongs with classic country as much as a whale belongs in the middle of Kansas, with Taylor Swift being the (admittedly hot) poster child for why my title is apt.

Agreed.

Popular Country Music is what we should all be offended by. It's not country, it's pop with violins (fiddle is too country a word to use anymore). It's made by frustrated wannabe popstars, and marketed toward minivan driving soccer moms.

But it is NOT COUNTRY.9

Now, real country music still lives on... they call it Alt Country (among other labels) now. You can find it with some digging... satellite radio, the internet, but you'll never hear real country on TV or FM radio ever again, because it's not as marketable as blonde barbie pop star wannabe shaking her ass and singing her latest girl power anthem.


I never thought it would be possible for somebody to be a country music hipster.

/I keed.


That's the beauty of the internet!
 
2012-11-30 10:33:52 AM  

FlashHarry: the_rev: Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.

you you'd be totally cool if it were a swastika?


Sadly, the Afrikaaners swiped the three-legged swastika (triskelion), and doing a Google search it looks like the pentaskelion is being used by Stormfront for something (who knows what, I refuse to go to their site).

So we are left to celebrate either two right angles, or symbols with six or more legs... 

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY ANT!
 
2012-11-30 10:35:39 AM  
Adkins - on a USO tour in Japan - also called for the preservation of America's battlefields and an "honest conversation about the country's history."

Be careful what you ask for, buddy.
 
2012-11-30 10:37:14 AM  

sigdiamond2000: Anyone ever heard the phrase "northern heritage" used by anyone?



Anglo-Saxon heritage?
 
2012-11-30 10:37:15 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: FriarReb98: dr_blasto: /just don't like modern shiatty country music

I prefer to refer to it as "Southern Pop." It belongs with classic country as much as a whale belongs in the middle of Kansas, with Taylor Swift being the (admittedly hot) poster child for why my title is apt.

Agreed.

Popular Country Music is what we should all be offended by. It's not country, it's pop with violins (fiddle is too country a word to use anymore). It's made by frustrated wannabe popstars, and marketed toward minivan driving soccer moms.

But it is NOT COUNTRY.9

Now, real country music still lives on... they call it Alt Country (among other labels) now. You can find it with some digging... satellite radio, the internet, but you'll never hear real country on TV or FM radio ever again, because it's not as marketable as blonde barbie pop star wannabe shaking her ass and singing her latest girl power anthem.


Alt country, the outlaw stuff and the like still has it. This pop shiat is regurgitated shiat in a class with Nickleback and their ilk or some blonde Britney Spears crap with a bit of steel guitar. It is utter shiat.
 
2012-11-30 10:39:59 AM  

dr_blasto: Alt country, the outlaw stuff and the like still has it.


But who has access to Usenet anymore?
 
2012-11-30 10:45:16 AM  

the_rev: Yes. I can guarantee with absolute confidence, that if Trace Adkins sticks a one-inch swastika in his ear, I will not give a single fcuck.


Yet you give several f*cks because other people give a f*ck.
 
2012-11-30 10:48:21 AM  

sweetmelissa31: the_rev: Yes. I can guarantee with absolute confidence, that if Trace Adkins sticks a one-inch swastika in his ear, I will not give a single fcuck.

Yet you give several f*cks because other people give a f*ck.


Everyone is farking in this thread. I feel so left out.
 
2012-11-30 10:48:36 AM  

FriarReb98: And for the record, anyone who is offended by a Confederate Battle Flag but not the Georgia state flag needs a history book on why the state essentially pegged a giant middle finger in the face of the offended and got away with it.


I'm not offended by a Confederate flag. Jefferson Davis is in my family tree. Not that it's a point of pride in our family, mind you. Many moons ago when I had to do a family tree for school, when I got to that branch, I just lied and said we didn't have information going that far back. I didn't want anyone to think I shared a point of view with that traitorous knob. My paternal grandmother's mother's maiden name was Davis, and if you travel back a ways, you hit him. Hopefully hard.

I similarly am not offended by the Georgia state flag, either. Why would I be? I'm not from Georgia, and while I lived there for 7 years, it was never "home"....that was Chicago. It was where my house was, which is different.
 
2012-11-30 10:54:10 AM  

Jackson Herring: Everyone is farking in this thread. I feel so left out.


Exactly 1 f*ck.

i194.photobucket.com

This cat give 1 f*ck about his anglo-saxon heritage.
 
2012-11-30 10:55:33 AM  

Cythraul: Diogenes: My great grandfather was in the Klan.

I think I'll wear a Klan robe today. 'Cause, you know, heritage.

Yours too?


Oh yeah. Not that it makes it any better, but this was in NJ and they really didn't put the hate on Jews and Blacks much. Their big thing was Catholics.

Took Gram many years before she'd admit that to me. And I did know Pappy. I wonder if she didn't want to ruin what memory I had of him.
 
2012-11-30 10:57:48 AM  

sweetmelissa31: the_rev: Yes. I can guarantee with absolute confidence, that if Trace Adkins sticks a one-inch swastika in his ear, I will not give a single fcuck.

Yet you give several f*cks because other people give a f*ck.


GIVEAfarkCEPTION !
 
2012-11-30 10:57:59 AM  
I am sad that he is involved in this.

Trace Adkins plays a benefit concert every year for my cousin's special needs school in the Nashville area. Every single year I am amazed at how genuine and kind he is and am always so appreciative of his efforts to raise money and put on an amazing show for free. He stays afterwards, treats the kids and adults with incredible respect and just couldn't possibly be any more of a gentleman.

Bad judgement on the earpiece but I truly believe he is a good man.
 
2012-11-30 10:58:48 AM  
Apparently f8cks are given out here as much as taglines:

More: , Trace Adkins, Rockefeller Center, USO, hip-huggers, Lacunar amnesia, brightness, pairs
 
2012-11-30 10:59:10 AM  

sweetmelissa31: Jackson Herring: Everyone is farking in this thread. I feel so left out.

Exactly 1 f*ck.

[i194.photobucket.com image 850x478]

This cat give 1 f*ck about his anglo-saxon heritage.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-30 11:00:45 AM  

Jackson Herring: i.imgur.com


Ahh holy sh*t. Furrman Göring.
 
2012-11-30 11:01:45 AM  

FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.


The ONLY time I feel a confederate flag would be appropriate would be an historic re-enactment of a civil war battle, or at a monument to the confederate dead.

Other than that, done in one.
 
2012-11-30 11:03:02 AM  

sweetmelissa31: Furrman Göring.


Ahh hahah you are so rad
 
2012-11-30 11:06:40 AM  

sweetmelissa31: Jackson Herring: i.imgur.com

Ahh holy sh*t. Furrman Göring.


We must eliminate the mews!
 
2012-11-30 11:09:41 AM  

doyner: sweetmelissa31: Jackson Herring: i.imgur.com

Ahh holy sh*t. Furrman Göring.

We must eliminate the mews!


Arbeit Macht Mice.
 
2012-11-30 11:16:25 AM  
j.wigflip.com
 
2012-11-30 11:16:54 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-30 11:18:40 AM  
Can we just beat the shiat out of all these people now? fark you assholes.
 
2012-11-30 11:19:51 AM  
Like anything anyone involved in country music does is sincere.
 
2012-11-30 11:20:29 AM  
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Purrer.
 
2012-11-30 11:21:11 AM  

www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com


Der Furr-er

 
2012-11-30 11:23:39 AM  
Anybody who decides to be upset at any use of the flag is a whiner. The Confederates weren't Nazi's but they are a historic relic. Get over it and people will stop using it to upset you. Seriously, it's a part of history and proof that they lost.
 
2012-11-30 11:23:41 AM  

FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.


MaudlinMutantMollusk: It symbolizes treason and secession, and more than anything else, being a butthurt loser


Symbols can change meaning over time and be interpreted differently by different people. Take the cross for example. Some see it as a symbol of peace and love. Others see it as a symbol of bigotry and oppression. Symbols are only what you make them out to be. So please, both of you get over yourselves at your earliest convenience. Thanks.
 
2012-11-30 11:23:48 AM  
A famous country music singer is a real-life racist hillbilly??!!

i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-30 11:23:58 AM  

Therion: In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Confederate flags meant {Beavis voice} "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!" {/Beavis voice}

It wasn't until the 90s that Confederate flags started being strongly equated with Slavery and Racism, and an awful lot of folks still think that Confederate flags still mean "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!"

I think those people (what do you mean, those people?) still wear/ use the symbol to "stick it to the libs!"

To educated folks it's a symbol of oppression, to uneducated folks it's a symbol of cool. Screaming at the uneducated that their cool symbol is a hate symbol isn't the way to educate them.

(lived in the North most of my life, in Austin the last two decades, and I haven't owned anything with a Confederate flag on it since being a teenager. Comment added before some dumbass accuses me of "defending the Confederate flag")


I view the Confederate flag as a reminder of the single largest blow to states rights in American history. The entire legal argument (and hence the conclusion reached by forces of arms) for the Civil War is essentially that a state has no right to secede from the Union. People who looks at the Confederate flag and think about hillbillies and slavery are not thinking large enough.
 
2012-11-30 11:24:05 AM  
www.assetstorage.co.uk
HEIL KITLER
 
2012-11-30 11:24:29 AM  
So Trace Adkins is a "Real Murican" that loves treason.

I suppose he was ok with the Dixie Chicks criticizing Bush?

Let the morons wear confederate flags, makes it easier for the rest to remind people what we used to do to treasonous bastards.
 
2012-11-30 11:24:50 AM  
It's a long-time part of the country music schtick.

"Look, ya'll folks better be careful, I'm a guitar-slangin' southern rebel."
 
2012-11-30 11:25:15 AM  
That dude must have tons of money, he invented a diet where you just eat meat and now he is singing country music? A true renaissance man.
 
2012-11-30 11:26:04 AM  

Cythraul: FriarReb98: the_rev: Good. You shouldn't be. Nobody should. It's an inch-wide earplug in a douchy millionaire singer's ear. But yet, we are reading about people tweeting and complaining, and the guy having to make apologies for it, blah blah. The United States of the Offended.

This. People make their entire livings off of being offended in this country.

Lawyers?


That's a lawsuit
 
2012-11-30 11:26:56 AM  
Well, this thread es-cat-lated quickly.
 
2012-11-30 11:26:59 AM  
You would think people would have been more offended by Mariah Carey trying to fit two hundred pounds into a one hundred pound dress.
 
2012-11-30 11:28:24 AM  

FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.


I'm a blood decendant of J. Davis, and my take is that people who can trace their geneology to confederates should be able to use it as a reminder of the tragedy and loss of life, but "spiritual decendants" are just jackasses. The Lost Cause is dead. There is no need to propagate or romanticize it.
 
2012-11-30 11:28:42 AM  
ehrmagerhd! mah butthurt because of a symbol!! oh noezszz!!11

stfu and get with the times - you want to be all tree-huggy, peace-loving, accepting of all beliefs or ideals in this country, but get all whiny and shiat when someone wears a symbol of the confederacy?

fark you and the wagon you rode in on, go smoke some peyote and have yourself a vision quest

seriously though,...
It's no different than saying a black kid with sagging pants and a hoodie "is a gangster". Doesn't matter if he's working in a soup kitchen or donating toys for needy children, it's ALL ABOUT WHAT HE HAS ON, right? Stereotypical view.
 
2012-11-30 11:28:43 AM  

sigdiamond2000: Anyone ever heard the phrase "northern heritage" used by anyone?


It's just called "heritage".
 
2012-11-30 11:29:56 AM  

Thats No Moose: Well, this thread es-cat-lated quickly.


I'm afraid the Moderators may split this thread into East and West Purrlin if we keep being threadjack-puss-n-booted thugs.

What we need is a final solution to this debate before they catnip it in the bud.
 
2012-11-30 11:30:16 AM  

uncleacid: You would think people would have been more offended by Mariah Carey trying to fit two hundred pounds into a one hundred pound dress.


Yeah, but, dem tittays

www.blogcdn.com
 
2012-11-30 11:30:35 AM  
I'm more offended by surge in country music's popularity recently
 
2012-11-30 11:30:41 AM  
i1151.photobucket.com
So my husband Carl staggers home sh*t-faced from his Klan KhristmaSS party and passes out on the front walk in the snow
- then neighbour Hanks decides to clean the sidewalks with his snow-blower and nails him right in the head.
I TOLD Carl to wear his Confederate flag like a cape so he could be seen in the winter with those g'damned white robes & hood!

The funeral's tomorrow - CASH BAR!
 
2012-11-30 11:30:58 AM  
I knew there was something wrong with them Duke boys
 
2012-11-30 11:32:15 AM  
I'm more offended by the fact that the TV show Nashville exists and that I'm supposed to think Hayden Paneshapedlikeafirehydrantierre is a "hot" "starlet" with "talent."
 
2012-11-30 11:32:46 AM  
The US government intentionally withheld syphilis treatments from black people in a long running medical experiment that lasted until 1972. It also interned Japanese people in WWII, continued screwing over Native Americans well into the 20th century, and is indirectly responsible for the deaths of an estimated 100,000 Iraqi citizens.

Why is it acceptable to wear a US flag but not a Confederate one? It's certainly not because the US has been a great respecter of the rights of minorities. The only reason I can think of is that the CSA lost.
 
2012-11-30 11:32:50 AM  

imtheonlylp: ehrmagerhd! mah butthurt because of a symbol!! oh noezszz!!11

stfu and get with the times - you want to be all tree-huggy, peace-loving, accepting of all beliefs or ideals in this country, but get all whiny and shiat when someone wears a symbol of the confederacy?

fark you and the wagon you rode in on, go smoke some peyote and have yourself a vision quest

seriously though,...
It's no different than saying a black kid with sagging pants and a hoodie "is a gangster". Doesn't matter if he's working in a soup kitchen or donating toys for needy children, it's ALL ABOUT WHAT HE HAS ON, right? Stereotypical view.


I didn't know that sagging pants and a hoodie symbolized an organized armed insurrection intent on perpetuating institutionalized slavery.
 
2012-11-30 11:33:02 AM  
so he was wearing a white earpiece? I think it is a bit much to assume that was a Confederate flag. I could have just been a white earpiece.
 
2012-11-30 11:33:55 AM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

The South is Rising...
 
2012-11-30 11:34:16 AM  

rocketpants: A famous country music singer is a real-life racist hillbilly??!!

[i.imgur.com image 293x400]


Cames to say this...you said it better.
 
2012-11-30 11:34:35 AM  

Rostin: The US government intentionally withheld syphilis treatments from black people in a long running medical experiment that lasted until 1972. It also interned Japanese people in WWII, continued screwing over Native Americans well into the 20th century, and is indirectly responsible for the deaths of an estimated 100,000 Iraqi citizens.

Why is it acceptable to wear a US flag but not a Confederate one? It's certainly not because the US has been a great respecter of the rights of minorities. The only reason I can think of is that the CSA lost.


THIS is precicely what I was implying with my initial comment.
 
2012-11-30 11:34:46 AM  
Hehehe...

/I got one
 
2012-11-30 11:35:35 AM  
Very sad that so many ignorant people in this country have convinced themselves this has something to do with racism.
 
2012-11-30 11:36:44 AM  

www.aquariumdrunkard.com

-Is not needed around anyhow...

 
2012-11-30 11:36:46 AM  
Other symbols of opression and slavery i know all of you who hate the rebel flag also hate, right?
static.flickr.com
writetodie.files.wordpress.com 
www.westernjournalism.com 
skew.dailyskew.com
 
2012-11-30 11:37:03 AM  

Therion


To educated folks it's a symbol of oppression, to uneducated folks it's a symbol of cool. Screaming at the uneducated that their cool symbol is a hate symbol isn't the way to educate them.


Nothing else has worked, including actually trying to educate them the regular way. And nothing will work as long as they* choose to remain willfully ignorant.


* By "they" I mean all people, regardless of location, who refuse to learn anything at all.
 
2012-11-30 11:37:14 AM  
FlashHarry Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-30 08:23:10 AM


"southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.


To you, and many others, it is.
To many in the south, it isn't.
Everyone's opinion is equal.
 
2012-11-30 11:37:31 AM  

FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.


Wrong. It's also a symbol of failure and defeat.
 
2012-11-30 11:37:37 AM  

kronicfeld: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

You shouldn't even have to reach the "slavery" element, since that just opens the door to the argument that there was more to southern culture than slavery, which is of course true. The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.


So all armed insurrections are de facto treasonous and worthy of condemnation? Feel free to tell the Egytians that. The US was designed with the intent that if the government was deemed too oppressive the people should revolt. You may not like the reasons that lead to the South feeling their interests were not being upheld by the federal government, but the conclusion of this war is that a state has no right to secede. If tomorrow slavery and genocide were legalized by the federal government your state would be legally in the wrong for trying to secede in response.
 
2012-11-30 11:37:46 AM  

clane: Very sad that so many ignorant people in this country have convinced themselves this has something to do with racism.


It's equally sad that it is a favored symbol among racists.
 
2012-11-30 11:38:07 AM  

FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.


Oh gawd, give me a break. That has to be the most sandy-vagina comment I've read here in a looooooong time.
 
2012-11-30 11:38:22 AM  

the_rev: What the hell is an "earpiece?"

I looked at the photos and didn't see anything resembling a flag.


&

the_rev: [www.insideedition.com image 605x340]

Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.

 
2012-11-30 11:38:36 AM  
As a 100% pure northerner, who cares if a southerner flys the Confederate navel ensign? The war was 150 years ago, and just as those flying the flag should "get over it", so should some of those in this thread that wail of treachery.

It's hard to be offended by something that is being buried in history.
 
2012-11-30 11:38:49 AM  

sweetmelissa31: sweetmelissa31: FriarReb98: I'm sure the millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Janists who still use swastikas in their religion share your view.

Are you the kind of guy who has a Nazi flag tattoo and claim you just intended it as a Buddhist symbol?

Ah I should have checked your profile before hand. Complaining about "political correctness"? Check. A whole section about your Caucasian heritage? Check.


Who the fark keeps a list and links of all their greenlights?
Douchebags, that's who.
 
2012-11-30 11:39:16 AM  
Are you a States Rights type? Fly your own state flag.

Confederate Flag (ie, the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia) can rot in the pits of history.

Unless, of course, the NoVA types take it up, the nice deep dark diverse blue commie lib'rul types.
 
2012-11-30 11:39:20 AM  
Subby should have used the hero tag.
 
2012-11-30 11:39:28 AM  
I think Trace Adkins will win American X Factor
 
2012-11-30 11:39:30 AM  

the_rev: [www.insideedition.com image 605x340]

Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.


You don't say much my friend, but when you do it's to the point, and I salute you for it.
 
2012-11-30 11:40:07 AM  
Not a Trace Adkins (or commercial country music in general) fan, I'm not from the south, nor do I live there... but reaction to this seems ridiculous, IMO. To your average non-racist southerner, it's just a symbol of redneck "yee-haw", and nothing more. Yeah, it's dumb and he should have known some people would get all wound up over it, but damn...

I don't remember the moral outrage over the Dukes Of Hazzard, a show where the central character was a car with a giant confederate flag on the roof. But that was 30 years ago, and people were generally less nuts then.
 
2012-11-30 11:40:21 AM  

Maud Dib: Who the fark keeps a list and links of all their greenlights?
Douchebags, that's who.


It is a pretty childish thing to do isn't it
 
2012-11-30 11:40:30 AM  

WorldCitizen: FriarReb98: WorldCitizen: Hey, the Nazi flag is just celebrating your German heritage.

I'm sure the millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Janists who still use swastikas in their religion share your view.

I'm not sure that Hindus Buddhists and Janists use the Nazi flag. You realize it's a combination of patterns and not just a swastika, right?


No, actually, I've seen temples in India that have the swastika repeated by itself.
 
2012-11-30 11:40:57 AM  

GibbyTheMole: But that was 30 years ago, and people were generally less nuts then.


by less nuts do you mean less incredibly overtly racist
 
2012-11-30 11:40:57 AM  
And for the record, anyone who is offended by a Confederate Battle Flag

Wrong. That's NOT a "Battle Flag". It's the Confederate NAVY Jack. The Army of Northern Virginia battle flag was usually square, of various sizes for the different branches of the service: 52 inches square for the infantry, 38 inches for the artillery, and 32 inches for the cavalry. It was used in battle beginning in December 1861 until the fall of the Confederacy. The blue color on the saltire in the battle flag was navy blue, as opposed to the much lighter blue of the Naval Jack. The flag's stars represented the number of states in the Confederacy. The distance between the stars decreased as the number of states increased, reaching thirteen when the secessionist factions of Kentucky and Missouri joined in late 1861. At the First Battle of Manassas, the similarity between the Stars and Bars and the Stars and Stripes caused confusion and military problems. Thus was born the "Battle Flag". If people are going to rail against "Southern Heritage" or try to defend it, knowing something about it would help you a great deal. History books are a lot of fun...IF YOU BOTHER TO READ THE DAMN THINGS!
 
2012-11-30 11:41:04 AM  

Country singer Trace Adkins


sucks.


There, I done re-yoonified this here thread.
 
2012-11-30 11:41:24 AM  

kronicfeld: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

You shouldn't even have to reach the "slavery" element, since that just opens the door to the argument that there was more to southern culture than slavery, which is of course true. The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.


The Confederacy was just proof of how far Southerners would/will go in order to defend their urges to inflict inhumanity on other people.

If Lincoln had just let General Sherman go nuts and kept the Southern states out of the Union, everything South of Iowa would have become a wasteland where all the people there died out by 1930.

Then, we could have sent in intelligent, twang-free people from the North to repopulate the land and make it fruitful again.
 
2012-11-30 11:41:24 AM  

Frank N Stein: Confederate navel ensign?


Is that like a secessionist seafaring belly-dancing officer?
 
2012-11-30 11:42:11 AM  

FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.


Its no more offensive than the US flag.
 
2012-11-30 11:42:47 AM  
I don't recall anyone accusing those dukes boys as being racist ?

www.northerntool.com

I thought that would be Boss hog
 
2012-11-30 11:42:52 AM  

kronicfeld: I'm more offended by the fact that the TV show Nashville exists and that I'm supposed to think Hayden Paneshapedlikeafirehydrantierre is a "hot" "starlet" with "talent."


She is

/never saw the show but still would like the hand of..blah..blah..sumptin'
 
2012-11-30 11:42:54 AM  
We have an old graveyard in town that has a confederate flag flying over it....I think nothing of it except that there must be a butt load of civil war veterans buried there.

Feigned outrage is just pathetic
 
2012-11-30 11:43:40 AM  
"farking snowflakes they are such whiners"
"Did you see his EARPIECE! BLARGHHHH!"
 
2012-11-30 11:44:12 AM  
I'm not a fan of country music, but I did get a kick out of him mailing it in during the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade.
 
2012-11-30 11:44:14 AM  

S.A.S.Q.U.A.T.C.H.: It's a long-time part of the country music schtick.

"Look, ya'll folks better be careful, I'm a guitar-slangin' southern rebel."


Country music fans are probably the only segment of society that's brain-dead enough to believe this. I be they also think he lives in a double-wide and can't afford to get his pick-up truck fixed because he's so dad-gummed broke. Oh well, three shots of Cuervo down at the local honky-tonk this Saturday night will cure all of life's ills.
 
2012-11-30 11:45:26 AM  
I would have been more offended if they had referred to him as a musician, but fortunately they used the correct phrase country "singer".
 
2012-11-30 11:45:37 AM  

Joe Blowme: Other symbols of opression and slavery i know all of you who hate the rebel flag also hate, right?
static.flickr.com
writetodie.files.wordpress.com
www.westernjournalism.com
skew.dailyskew.com


Don't forget

www.fisheaters.com
 
2012-11-30 11:45:47 AM  

Joe Blowme: Other symbols of opression and slavery i know all of you who hate the rebel flag also hate, right?
[static.flickr.com image 500x341]
[writetodie.files.wordpress.com image 300x300] 
[www.westernjournalism.com image 299x269] 
[skew.dailyskew.com image 500x400]


How many Soviet flags have you seen out there?

And how many Che Guevara shirts have you seen IN PERSON?

I see a treason flag nearly every single day.
 
2012-11-30 11:45:50 AM  
My favorite was when I was behind a pick up truck that had two big stickers in the rear cab windshield. One was an American flag that said something like Patriotism, and beside it was rebel flag. Farking idiot. It was central PA btw with PA plates.

Another fun story from the same area. I asked this uber christian (really nice guy) why he was wearing rebel flag belt buckle and he said it was because it is a symbol of rebellion. My response was "so is the American flag." The look on his face was a memorable mind=blown moment.

That one is fun insight into why some wear it. It's ridiculously stupid.
 
2012-11-30 11:45:50 AM  

sigdiamond2000: Anyone ever heard the phrase "northern heritage" used by anyone?


For the same reason there is no white history month. The north won, and stomped the south's head into the floor. Northern culture is the USAian default and needs no stating.
 
2012-11-30 11:46:08 AM  
From the comments section:

I guess he'll lose all those millions of black Trace Adkins fans, huh?

I LOL'd
 
2012-11-30 11:46:10 AM  
deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com
Proctor: All right, here's your last question. What was the cause of
the Civil War?
Apu: Actually, there were numerous causes. Aside from the obvious
schism between the abolitionists and the anti-abolitionists,
there were economic factors, both domestic and inter--
Proctor: Wait, wait... just say slavery.
Apu: Slavery it is, sir.
 
2012-11-30 11:47:17 AM  

i48.photobucket.com

 
2012-11-30 11:47:24 AM  

WhippingBoy: S.A.S.Q.U.A.T.C.H.: It's a long-time part of the country music schtick.

"Look, ya'll folks better be careful, I'm a guitar-slangin' southern rebel."

Country music fans are probably the only segment of society that's brain-dead enough to believe this. I be they also think he lives in a double-wide and can't afford to get his pick-up truck fixed because he's so dad-gummed broke. Oh well, three shots of Cuervo down at the local honky-tonk this Saturday night will cure all of life's ills.


As opposed to the thug envy of rappers? I think they have them country folks beat by a mile or 50 as brain dead people go.
 
2012-11-30 11:48:20 AM  

Holocaust Agnostic: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

Its no more offensive than the US flag.


The US flag now is (slightly) different than the various US flags that so many hundreds of thousands of slaves were captured, shipped, and sold under.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-30 11:48:44 AM  

doyner: Frank N Stein: Confederate navel ensign?

Is that like a secessionist seafaring belly-dancing officer?


Lol. Naval.

Also, there's no moral high ground in this issue. Slavery is evil, yes. But before the civil war and the end of slavery we, as a nation, were well underway in genociding the Indians. A process that only excellerated after the war.
 
2012-11-30 11:48:45 AM  

doubled99: To you, and many others, it is.
To many in the south, it isn't.
Everyone's opinion is equal.


They had an organized insurrectionist army, a minor navy, declared themselves an independent nation, drafted and ratified papers to that effect, adopted a recognized flag as a battle standard, and citizens under that standard continued to hold it long after their side of the war was lost and their attempt at secession was lost. That's not an opinion. That's not an "idea". That's a nationally recognized standard, enshrined in numerous officially recognized and ratified documents.

Revisionist histories can't sugar coat this one. It's a recognized symbol of treason and secession that lost. Some groups in the south still attempt to claim this flag, nation, and way of life today, but subtly change its meaning to try to justify the rebellion. It's a facade that breaks down under the smallest amount of scrutiny and questioning. It's no different than Nazi symbols in Germany today or Soviet symbols in eastern Europe. They still have well-understood meanings and histories, and no amount of cultural smoke screening can undo the historical facts of what they are and what they represent.
 
2012-11-30 11:49:18 AM  
Odd that some folks arguing that it isn't racist are trying to draw equivalence with gangsta rap. Rather telling, no?
 
2012-11-30 11:50:18 AM  

rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: Other symbols of opression and slavery i know all of you who hate the rebel flag also hate, right?
[static.flickr.com image 500x341]
[writetodie.files.wordpress.com image 300x300] 
[www.westernjournalism.com image 299x269] 
[skew.dailyskew.com image 500x400]

How many Soviet flags have you seen out there?

And how many Che Guevara shirts have you seen IN PERSON?

I see a treason flag nearly every single day.


Daily on the Che and soviet flag t shirts,
 
2012-11-30 11:50:24 AM  
Joe Blowme:

Yeah, I forget, how many slaves did Che own?
 
2012-11-30 11:51:04 AM  
Hank III would like a word with all you folks lumping "pop country" in with "real country"
s2.evcdn.com
/the grand ole opry 'aint so grand anymore
 
2012-11-30 11:51:10 AM  

rufus-t-firefly: [i48.photobucket.com image 425x425]


I'm actually more offended of the blatant copyright infringement and the fact that image of Calvin has become more popular then the actual comic then the confederate flag.
 
2012-11-30 11:51:23 AM  
 
2012-11-30 11:51:26 AM  

kronicfeld: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

You shouldn't even have to reach the "slavery" element, since that just opens the door to the argument that there was more to southern culture than slavery, which is of course true. The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.


It's a goddamned symbol. If you wanna wipe your ass with it, go ahead. If another guy wants to hang it from a stud on his willy, let him. Getting all butthurt over it destroys any "lessons" you want to teach from the episode.
 
2012-11-30 11:52:05 AM  

oldfarthenry: So my husband Carl staggers home sh*t-faced from his Klan KhristmaSS party and passes out on the front walk in the snow
- then neighbour Hanks decides to clean the sidewalks with his snow-blower and nails him right in the head.
I TOLD Carl to wear his Confederate flag like a cape so he could be seen in the winter with those g'damned white robes & hood!

The funeral's tomorrow - CASH BAR!


You're fun.
 
2012-11-30 11:52:19 AM  

Joe Blowme: Daily on the Che and soviet flag t shirts,


Where do you live? Cuba?
 
2012-11-30 11:52:25 AM  

Kraftwerk Orange: The US flag now is (slightly) different than the various US flags that so many hundreds of thousands of slaves were captured, shipped, and sold under.

1.bp.blogspot.com


It would be kind of funny if that picture was the American flag as of 1830.
 
2012-11-30 11:52:27 AM  
I've lived in the South long enough to have a fairly data-driven opinion that the Confederate flag on someone's car, house, or personal effects is simply fair warning that you're about to talk to an angry person with a mal-formed outlook. Trace Adkins is pandering to those people, because they buy his records, t-shirts, concert tickets. They pay for his giant houses, boats, et cetera.

There are exceptions, I'm sure, however I've never met one. People are welcome to display whatever symbol they want, but they're also making a statement and statements have meanings and drive reactions.
 
2012-11-30 11:52:39 AM  
My girlfriend loves the "country" they play on the radio. She doesn't seem to understand when I explain that, as others here said, it's not country, it's made by the same farking people who make Carly Rae Jepsen's crap, and in the same format too.

It's seriously awful. I hadn't heard the radio in my town for years until I got with her, since her car just has a radio [no iPod hookup or what have you]. Now I remember why I stopped listening in the first place. Pity me!

/Or don't. Whatever.
 
2012-11-30 11:52:48 AM  

signaljammer: Joe Blowme:

Yeah, I forget, how many slaves did Che own?


Oppression, how does it work?
Helps to read the entire post before responding.
 
2012-11-30 11:53:26 AM  

Coco LaFemme: It's not offensive, it's ignorant. Of course, if someone wants to broadcast their ignorance to the whole world, they are more than free to do so.


Funny how it was the Democrats that were the party of the south, created the jim crow laws, founded the KKK and fought against the civil rights movement and yet they're seen as the leaders of tolerance.
 
2012-11-30 11:53:29 AM  
That's what I tell people when they get offended, it is not a symbol of Nazi hatred, it is a symbol I wear for auspiciousness. I got in a screaming match with some old guy about this last week and I was like "well, if that's the way you're going to be, then see you later" and I totally left the synagogue.
 
2012-11-30 11:53:36 AM  

signaljammer: Joe Blowme:

Yeah, I forget, how many slaves did Che own?


George Washington owned 316 slaves and he's on the one dollar bill. Give the redneck a break and lighten up Francis.
 
2012-11-30 11:53:48 AM  

sweetmelissa31: My great-great grandparents were shot into a ditch in Belarus because they were Jews.

They had it almost as hard as white Southerners in 2012 who can't wear Confederate flags without being criticized.


:)
 
2012-11-30 11:54:11 AM  

makesthefire: Hank III would like a word with all you folks lumping "pop country" in with "real country"
[s2.evcdn.com image 500x500]
/the grand ole opry 'aint so grand anymore


Not Hank but very relevant:

Let's Go Burn Old Nashville Down
 
2012-11-30 11:54:11 AM  
www.revisionisthistory.org

It's a southern thing you pathetic Yankees!
 
2012-11-30 11:54:13 AM  

Khellendros: doubled99: To you, and many others, it is.
To many in the south, it isn't.
Everyone's opinion is equal.

They had an organized insurrectionist army, a minor navy, declared themselves an independent nation, drafted and ratified papers to that effect, adopted a recognized flag as a battle standard


Sounds like the colonists in the 1700s.
 
2012-11-30 11:54:14 AM  
Stupid farking rednecks.
 
2012-11-30 11:54:17 AM  

signaljammer: Joe Blowme:

Yeah, I forget, how many slaves did Che own?


Probably not as many as George Washington did.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-30 11:54:49 AM  
What a buffoon. Not only does he wear the damn thing but then he back peddles when he gets called on it. If you're going to wear it, f*cking own it, you twit.
Now he's a traitor to his country and a traitor to the confederacy. A traitor squared, if you will.
(and a racist)
(and a coward)
 
2012-11-30 11:54:56 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: It symbolizes treason and secession, and more than anything else, being a butthurt loser


Did someone say "Butthurt?"
 
2012-11-30 11:55:34 AM  

the_rev: people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.


Makes it easier to identify the whiny people when they biatch about silly crap like this. Just MHO, of course. I'm sure one of the more OUTRAGED people here will point out how wrong I am. And then I'll continue to not care about this particular OUTRAGE.

/seriously - there are so many better things to be OUTRAGED about right now.
 
2012-11-30 11:56:06 AM  

FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

Why can't it be both?
 
2012-11-30 11:56:11 AM  
Oppression, how does it work?
Helps to read the entire post before responding.


I don't know, Fulgencio Batista isn't around to ask.
 
2012-11-30 11:56:22 AM  

IlGreven: It's a goddamned symbol. If you wanna wipe your ass with it, go ahead. If another guy wants to hang it from a stud on his willy, let him. Getting all butthurt over it destroys any "lessons" you want to teach from the episode.


Did someone say "Butthurt?"
 
2012-11-30 11:56:25 AM  

factoryconnection: There are exceptions, I'm sure, however I've never met one. People are welcome to display whatever symbol they want, but they're also making a statement and statements have meanings and drive reactions.


the confederate flag is kinda like a giant neck/face tattoo?
 
2012-11-30 11:56:27 AM  

sweetmelissa31: Jackson Herring: i.imgur.com

Ahh holy sh*t. Furrman Göring.


i865.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-30 11:56:58 AM  
STFU whiners - isn't it enough that Trace Adkins music sucks?
 
2012-11-30 11:57:07 AM  
WHITE POWER BROTEHRSSSSSS!
 
2012-11-30 11:57:36 AM  
Funny how much outrage people have over this past yet silent on current countries that have slaves today.
 
2012-11-30 11:57:41 AM  
HappyTheDog: George Washington owned 316 slaves and he's on the one dollar bill. Give the redneck a break and lighten up Francis.

General U.S.Grant, "The Man Who Saved The Union" owned slaves and he's on the $50 bill.
 
2012-11-30 11:58:15 AM  
The Confederate flag does not represent racism. It was originally a symbol of southern heritage, representing freedom, states rights, individual responsibility, and resistance to an out of control federal government.

No slave ship ever sailed from a Confederate port or under a Confederate flag.

Ulysses S. Grant during the Civil War was a slave holder.
Robert E. Lee was against slavery.

Racist groups have used the Confederate flag in recent years but the Ku Klux Klan, have historically used the American flag for a much longer period of time.
 
2012-11-30 11:58:20 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-30 11:58:40 AM  

Doom MD: Khellendros: doubled99: To you, and many others, it is.
To many in the south, it isn't.
Everyone's opinion is equal.

They had an organized insurrectionist army, a minor navy, declared themselves an independent nation, drafted and ratified papers to that effect, adopted a recognized flag as a battle standard

Sounds like the colonists in the 1700s.


Correct. And had we lost, it would be unacceptable for us to fly the stars and stripes today, claiming a "cultural history" while secretly celebrating our rebellion and claiming the patriots would rise again to claim the colonies and drive the Brits out. Had the south won the war, it would be perfectly acceptable to fly the rebel flag, since it would be their country standard.
 
2012-11-30 11:58:57 AM  
Political oppression while vile, isn't precisely equivalent to slavery, except in some derpy Randian metaphor.
 
2012-11-30 11:59:05 AM  
You shouldn't even have to reach the "slavery" element, since that just opens the door to the argument that there was more to southern culture than slavery, which is of course true. The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.
 
2012-11-30 11:59:39 AM  
Wait now - does this guy play "Country," or Western?"

/Blues Bros

//oblig
 
2012-11-30 12:00:27 PM  

dr_blasto: kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection

Armed insurrection in support of slavery.


Armed insurrection in support of states' rights, actually.

Also, the flag you see typically used by "just the good o' boys never meaning no harm..." is actually the Confederate Battle Flag, not the official flag of the Confederate States of America.

www.sonofthesouth.net

The Confederate Battle Flag was carried by Confederate armies through the Civil War and while you might think that the flag of the losing army shouldn't be a source of pride, there are millions of decedents of many thousands of Confederate soldiers that served their state and their communities proudly that would tell you that you are wrong. They fought well and most gave everything they had. There was much mutual respect between the veterans of both armies at the end of that war--because it was earned.
 
2012-11-30 12:00:52 PM  

WorldKnowledge: [www.revisionisthistory.org image 280x341]

It's a southern thing you pathetic Yankees!


You mean like committing treason? Or is it a stupidity thing?
//Go to hell Johnny Reb
 
2012-11-30 12:01:29 PM  

doyner: clane: Very sad that so many ignorant people in this country have convinced themselves this has something to do with racism.

It's equally sad that it is a favored symbol among racists.


Or people who want to pretend that their casual racism is a noble heritage.
 
2012-11-30 12:02:02 PM  

fruitloop: I'm not a fan of country music, but I did get a kick out of him mailing it in during the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade.


I watched that because I trusted you.

What the hell is wrong with him? He couldn't even lip-synch correctly, and that song sounds like a whole bunch of unintelligible mumbling.

And what's with the ghost kid?
 
2012-11-30 12:02:02 PM  
Ah, the Fark cause du jour. Happy Friday everybody!
 
2012-11-30 12:02:05 PM  

Doom MD: I view the Confederate flag as a reminder of the single largest blow to states rights in American history. The entire legal argument (and hence the conclusion reached by forces of arms) for the Civil War is essentially that a state has no right to secede from the Union. People who looks at the Confederate flag and think about hillbillies and slavery are not thinking large enough.


Yeah, it's almost like people will read the secession declarations from the seceding states and see dozens of references to slavery as a direct cause of their decision to secede.

South Carolina (the first state to secede) had as its first specific grievance that abolitionist states weren't giving fugitive slaves back to their masters. And they explained that the election of an abolitionist was the last straw.

Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.


It's almost like the possibility of losing their slaves led directly to their secession, and thus the Civil War.

Here are the first two sentences of Georgia's declaration:

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

Odd that they'd place a side issue right at the front of the document, isn't it?

Then there's Mississippi - again, right at the beginning of the document:

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.


How about Texas?

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government *all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights* [emphasis in the original]; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.

By the secession of six of the slave-holding States, and the certainty that others will speedily do likewise, Texas has no alternative but to remain in an isolated connection with the North, or unite her destinies with the South.


When you self-identify as "the slave-holding States," it's kind of difficult to then say "But this isn't about slavery, really..."
 
2012-11-30 12:02:10 PM  

SoupJohnB: Wait now - does this guy play "Country," or Western?"

/Blues Bros

//oblig


///hates Ilinois Nazis
 
2012-11-30 12:02:21 PM  
Confederate flag wearers/displayers are kinda like Truthers and Birthers: a quick way for the idiots to identify themselves. So go ahead and display the Confederate flag so I know not listen to anything you say or take any of it seriously.
 
2012-11-30 12:02:22 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Kraftwerk Orange: The US flag now is (slightly) different than the various US flags that so many hundreds of thousands of slaves were captured, shipped, and sold under.

1.bp.blogspot.com

It would be kind of funny if that picture was the American flag as of 1830.


Artistic liberties might have been taken by the engraver. The print is authentic, and widely documented.

Are you denying the existence of the US slave trade? Boston and Rhode Island were home to many slave traders.
 
2012-11-30 12:04:54 PM  

FriarReb98: And for the record, anyone who is offended by a Confederate Battle Flag but not the Georgia state flag needs a history book on why the state essentially pegged a giant middle finger in the face of the offended and got away with it.


The cotton ball in their flag.
 
2012-11-30 12:05:05 PM  

Joe Blowme: rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: Other symbols of opression and slavery i know all of you who hate the rebel flag also hate, right?
[static.flickr.com image 500x341]
[writetodie.files.wordpress.com image 300x300] 
[www.westernjournalism.com image 299x269] 
[skew.dailyskew.com image 500x400]

How many Soviet flags have you seen out there?

And how many Che Guevara shirts have you seen IN PERSON?

I see a treason flag nearly every single day.

Daily on the Che and soviet flag t shirts,


So you live in Havana?

And if the CSA flag is fine, then why are you bothered by the Che and Soviet images?

It could be argued that neither Che Guevara or the Soviet Union waged war on the United States - unlike the Confederate States.

I don't particularly like traitors and those who wave the flag of treason while claiming to be patriots, but that's just me.
 
2012-11-30 12:05:23 PM  

Joe Blowme: Funny how much outrage people have over this past yet silent on current countries that have slaves today.


Including the modern United States.

www.bbqchickenrobot.com

The slave trade now is arguably as large as it ever has been, in terms of the number of slaves being brought in.
 
2012-11-30 12:05:28 PM  

hdhale: dr_blasto: kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection

Armed insurrection in support of slavery.

Armed insurrection in support of states' rights, actually.

Also, the flag you see typically used by "just the good o' boys never meaning no harm..." is actually the Confederate Battle Flag, not the official flag of the Confederate States of America.

[www.sonofthesouth.net image 650x476]

The Confederate Battle Flag was carried by Confederate armies through the Civil War and while you might think that the flag of the losing army shouldn't be a source of pride, there are millions of decedents of many thousands of Confederate soldiers that served their state and their communities proudly that would tell you that you are wrong. They fought well and most gave everything they had. There was much mutual respect between the veterans of both armies at the end of that war--because it was earned.


Which states' rights? The right to own slaves?
 
2012-11-30 12:05:51 PM  
"treasonous armed insurrection"...you mean the same type of thing that got us our independence from england?
 
2012-11-30 12:05:52 PM  

Khellendros: Doom MD: Khellendros: doubled99: To you, and many others, it is.
To many in the south, it isn't.
Everyone's opinion is equal.

They had an organized insurrectionist army, a minor navy, declared themselves an independent nation, drafted and ratified papers to that effect, adopted a recognized flag as a battle standard

Sounds like the colonists in the 1700s.

Correct. And had we lost, it would be unacceptable for us to fly the stars and stripes today, claiming a "cultural history" while secretly celebrating our rebellion and claiming the patriots would rise again to claim the colonies and drive the Brits out. Had the south won the war, it would be perfectly acceptable to fly the rebel flag, since it would be their country standard.


Ok, from this standpoint your view is logically coherent. I will say though that the standard of what is and is not acceptable is still in this circumstance is one dependant on viewpoint. Are you arguing from a legal or ethical/moral standpoint? Waving a confederate flag is acceptable under freedom of speech, although I suppose if it were done in the context of a serious push for armed rebellion the federal government could find a legal avenue for recourse.
 
2012-11-30 12:07:09 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Artistic liberties might have been taken by the engraver. The print is authentic, and widely documented.

Are you denying the existence of the US slave trade? Boston and Rhode Island were home to many slave traders.


Huh? I meant like if the entire picture was used as the American flag.
 
2012-11-30 12:07:16 PM  
I know what the Confederate flag has come to represent, but I also understand that after a certain point, it was flown by people who didn't give a crap about all that, they were defending their homes from assholes who were coming in to kill, rape, pillage and steal; to them, that flag represented the pride in what they worked for and their right to defend it.

The South deserves a -lot- of the derision it gets, but it's willful ignorance to believe that the Yankees were 100% saints during that period.
 
2012-11-30 12:07:17 PM  
Oh Jeez, not this shiat again.
 
2012-11-30 12:07:26 PM  

Publikwerks: WorldKnowledge: [www.revisionisthistory.org image 280x341]

It's a southern thing you pathetic Yankees!

You mean like committing treason? Or is it a stupidity thing?
//Go to hell Johnny Reb


If you want to fall for the looking-for-a-reason to be offended propaganda, be my guest.

Here's a little know reality in your circles -

I was in Georgia and kept seeing black men with that flag on their shirts cars and etc.
So being from the liberal la la land of California, I asked one of them at a gas station about their donning of the flag.
He tells me and I quote, "Pardon me sir, but you y'all must be a Yankee to think I'm not proud of this flag"!
 
2012-11-30 12:09:02 PM  

jruland: "treasonous armed insurrection"...you mean the same type of thing that got us our independence from england?


Well, in our case, the colonies won therefore we get to fly our flag. Last I checked the history books, the Confederates lost.
 
2012-11-30 12:09:15 PM  

doyner: clane: Very sad that so many ignorant people in this country have convinced themselves this has something to do with racism.

It's equally sad that it is a favored symbol among racists.


Wakeup, Blacks are much much more racist than whites.

99.999% of all black men wearing bow tie's are extremly racist about 3% of white men with the confederate flag are racist.
 
2012-11-30 12:09:23 PM  

hdhale: dr_blasto: kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection

Armed insurrection in support of slavery.

Armed insurrection in support of states' rights, actually.

Also, the flag you see typically used by "just the good o' boys never meaning no harm..." is actually the Confederate Battle Flag, not the official flag of the Confederate States of America.

[www.sonofthesouth.net image 650x476]

The Confederate Battle Flag was carried by Confederate armies through the Civil War and while you might think that the flag of the losing army shouldn't be a source of pride, there are millions of decedents of many thousands of Confederate soldiers that served their state and their communities proudly that would tell you that you are wrong. They fought well and most gave everything they had. There was much mutual respect between the veterans of both armies at the end of that war--because it was earned.


Yes, I'm aware it is the battle flag. I'm also aware it is state's rights to maintain slavery.
 
2012-11-30 12:09:37 PM  

FriarReb98: the_rev: Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.

THIS. Personally I'm offended that people still think a rebel flag isn't square. But that's why I have a history degree and they don't.


No kidding! What really kills me is people get all butt hurt over a symbol that wasn't even a CSA flag and completely miss all the Southern State flags that are patterned after the real CSA flag.
 
2012-11-30 12:09:38 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: Other symbols of opression and slavery i know all of you who hate the rebel flag also hate, right?
[static.flickr.com image 500x341]
[writetodie.files.wordpress.com image 300x300] 
[www.westernjournalism.com image 299x269] 
[skew.dailyskew.com image 500x400]

How many Soviet flags have you seen out there?

And how many Che Guevara shirts have you seen IN PERSON?

I see a treason flag nearly every single day.

Daily on the Che and soviet flag t shirts,

So you live in Havana?

And if the CSA flag is fine, then why are you bothered by the Che and Soviet images?

It could be argued that neither Che Guevara or the Soviet Union waged war on the United States - unlike the Confederate States.

I don't particularly like traitors and those who wave the flag of treason while claiming to be patriots, but that's just me.


I just try to live and let live, dont like it dont look at it. I dont like the che shirts so i dont wear them but i will not tell others they can not no matter how retarded they are.... IMHO. Freedom, this is how it works.
 
2012-11-30 12:09:57 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Kraftwerk Orange: Artistic liberties might have been taken by the engraver. The print is authentic, and widely documented.

Are you denying the existence of the US slave trade? Boston and Rhode Island were home to many slave traders.

Huh? I meant like if the entire picture was used as the American flag.


My apologies, I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were complaining the flag in the engraving wasn't accurate.
 
2012-11-30 12:10:53 PM  
"Country singer flys rebel flag."

ER MER GERRRRRD
 
2012-11-30 12:11:07 PM  

0z79: I know what the Confederate flag has come to represent, but I also understand that after a certain point, it was flown by people who didn't give a crap about all that, they were defending their homes from assholes who were coming in to kill, rape, pillage and steal; to them, that flag represented the pride in what they worked for and their right to defend it.

The South deserves a -lot- of the derision it gets, but it's willful ignorance to believe that the Yankees were 100% saints during that period.


I don't know anyone that thinks the North acted like saints.

In fact, I think they kinda like what Sherman did, even knowing *what* he did. So much so we named a tank after him.
 
2012-11-30 12:11:11 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Doom MD: I view the Confederate flag as a reminder of the single largest blow to states rights in American history. The entire legal argument (and hence the conclusion reached by forces of arms) for the Civil War is essentially that a state has no right to secede from the Union. People who looks at the Confederate flag and think about hillbillies and slavery are not thinking large enough.

Yeah, it's almost like people will read the secession declarations from the seceding states and see dozens of references to slavery as a direct cause of their decision to secede.

South Carolina (the first state to secede) had as its first specific grievance that abolitionist states weren't giving fugitive slaves back to their masters. And they explained that the election of an abolitionist was the last straw.

Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the jud ...


You're not refuting anything I have posited. The confederate states seceded (largely) because of slavery. The Civil War, however, was fought because the United States fought with the belief that a state lacks the ability to secede from the Union. Do you see the distinction I'm making here?
 
2012-11-30 12:11:12 PM  

hdhale: Armed insurrection in support of states' rights, actually.


...Because of slavery. I mean, that like saying "The Nazi's were really about economic stagnation and income equality".

And I know, Goodwin. But I think it's fair . I mean, 1.2-2.4 million Africans died in transport to America. Estimates that I have seen put the total death toll around 10 million, which exceeds the Holocaust.

Your right, it was about states rights. And the south was wrong. States do not have the right to violate the basic human rights. And those soldiers died fighting for an awful cause. So I would just as soon piss on their grave than honor them.
 
2012-11-30 12:11:17 PM  

PsyLord: jruland: "treasonous armed insurrection"...you mean the same type of thing that got us our independence from england?

Well, in our case, the colonies won therefore we get to fly our flag. Last I checked the history books, the Confederates lost.


If might makes right is our standard, then head south and start tearing down flags that offend you.
 
2012-11-30 12:12:35 PM  

hdhale: dr_blasto: kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection

Armed insurrection in support of slavery.

Armed insurrection in support of states' rights, actually.

Also, the flag you see typically used by "just the good o' boys never meaning no harm..." is actually the Confederate Battle Flag, not the official flag of the Confederate States of America.

[www.sonofthesouth.net image 650x476]

The Confederate Battle Flag was carried by Confederate armies through the Civil War and while you might think that the flag of the losing army shouldn't be a source of pride, there are millions of decedents of many thousands of Confederate soldiers that served their state and their communities proudly that would tell you that you are wrong. They fought well and most gave everything they had. There was much mutual respect between the veterans of both armies at the end of that war--because it was earned.


No, that's not the Confederate battle flag.

That's either the naval jack with the colors of the Army of Northern Virginia's battle flag or it's the flag of the Army of Tennessee.

Link

If we're going to talk about history, let's at least get the basic facts straight.
 
2012-11-30 12:13:03 PM  

Joe Blowme: Other symbols of opression and slavery i know all of you who hate the rebel flag also hate, right?
[static.flickr.com image 500x341]
[writetodie.files.wordpress.com image 300x300] 
[www.westernjournalism.com image 299x269] 
[skew.dailyskew.com image 500x400]


levinejudaica.com


Missed one.
 
2012-11-30 12:13:50 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: [i48.photobucket.com image 425x425]


You know what the only thing offensive in that picture is?

Some cocksucking sons of biatches stole Bill Watterson's creation and used it on a whole line of stupid, retarded stickers like that.
 
2012-11-30 12:13:59 PM  
i26.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-30 12:14:04 PM  

Joe Blowme: IMHO. Freedom, this is how it works.


We also have the freedom to make fun of people who wear confederate flags or tattoo their faces or put gigantic gauges in their ears or whatever. I agree that getting mad or outraged about it is silly though.
 
2012-11-30 12:14:24 PM  
Detail recedes with time. The end of slavery, abhorrent as the practice was, wasn't about concern for slaves so much as it was about reinforcing a factory system of production. After victory, it wasn't like the North did much for the ex-slaves.
 
2012-11-30 12:14:42 PM  
He should have a red-hot poker jammed in his ear-hole as punishment. Put his eardrum out.
 
2012-11-30 12:14:43 PM  
I wear my rebel flag stuff half ironically/half as a symbol of southern pride.

::shrugs::
 
2012-11-30 12:14:47 PM  
Khellendros Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-30 11:48:45 AM


doubled99: To you, and many others, it is.
To many in the south, it isn't.
Everyone's opinion is equal.

They had an organized insurrectionist army, a minor navy, declared themselves an independent nation, drafted and ratified papers to that effect, adopted a recognized flag as a battle standard, and citizens under that standard continued to hold it long after their side of the war was lost and their attempt at secession was lost. That's not an opinion. That's not an "idea". That's a nationally recognized standard, enshrined in numerous officially recognized and ratified documents.

Revisionist histories can't sugar coat this one. It's a recognized symbol of treason and secession that lost. Some groups in the south still attempt to claim this flag, nation, and way of life today, but subtly change its meaning to try to justify the rebellion. It's a facade that breaks down under the smallest amount of scrutiny and questioning. It's no different than Nazi symbols in Germany today or Soviet symbols in eastern Europe. They still have well-understood meanings and histories, and no amount of cultural smoke screening can undo the historical facts of what they are and what they represent.


*yawn.
Lighten up Francis. You seem to be stuck in a time period you can't even comprehend.

None of that shiat has anything to do with why people display the rebel flag on their shirt, or earpiece or whatever.
 
2012-11-30 12:15:21 PM  
Oh, some of you USA-ians are a funny bunch. Makes being neighbours interesting.

"Ha-Ha! Lookit dem silly Muslins over der in de Muddle Yeast, fighting over stuff that happened touwsands of yars ago..."

*[incident causes offence to a Southern state]*

"Balargh! War of Northin Agressin! SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN!"
 
2012-11-30 12:15:27 PM  

clane:
Wakeup, Blacks are much much more racist than whites.

99.999% of all black men wearing bow tie's are extremly racist about 3% of white men with the confederate flag are racist.


Bless your heart.
 
2012-11-30 12:15:28 PM  

Road_Kill: No kidding! What really kills me is people get all butt hurt over a symbol that wasn't even a CSA flag and completely miss all the Southern State flags that are patterned after the real CSA flag.


Did someone say "Butthurt?"
 
2012-11-30 12:15:37 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: PsyLord: jruland: "treasonous armed insurrection"...you mean the same type of thing that got us our independence from england?

Well, in our case, the colonies won therefore we get to fly our flag. Last I checked the history books, the Confederates lost.

If might makes right is our standard, then head south and start tearing down flags that offend you.


content7.flixster.com
/knows a thing or two about what winners get to do
 
2012-11-30 12:16:08 PM  
farking South.

Never won a war.
 
2012-11-30 12:16:36 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: rufus-t-firefly: [i48.photobucket.com image 425x425]

You know what the only thing offensive in that picture is?

Some cocksucking sons of biatches stole Bill Watterson's creation and used it on a whole line of stupid, retarded stickers like that.


Fun fact: there are almost no legitimate Calvin and Hobbes merchandise out there. The sticker is definitely a bootleg if its tackiness didn't alert you already.
 
2012-11-30 12:17:05 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: rufus-t-firefly: [i48.photobucket.com image 425x425]

You know what the only thing offensive in that picture is?

Some cocksucking sons of biatches stole Bill Watterson's creation and used it on a whole line of stupid, retarded stickers like that.


iirc the reason that was able to happen was because he never allowed those images/characters to be used in ads so that no big company had an interest in them and he didn't have the money or reach to protect them.
 
2012-11-30 12:17:14 PM  

Publikwerks: hdhale: Armed insurrection in support of states' rights, actually.

...Because of slavery. I mean, that like saying "The Nazi's were really about economic stagnation and income equality".

And I know, Goodwin. But I think it's fair . I mean, 1.2-2.4 million Africans died in transport to America. Estimates that I have seen put the total death toll around 10 million, which exceeds the Holocaust.

Your right, it was about states rights. And the south was wrong. States do not have the right to violate the basic human rights. And those soldiers died fighting for an awful cause. So I would just as soon piss on their grave than honor them.


The Holocaust is hardly the be all end all of nazi crimes.
 
2012-11-30 12:17:14 PM  
I'm more offended by the fact that Trace Adkins' music is liked by enough people that he is able to become rich off of it than what symbols he uses to identify with his inferior culture.
 
2012-11-30 12:17:42 PM  

WorldKnowledge: If you want to fall for the looking-for-a-reason to be offended propaganda, be my guest.

Here's a little know reality in your circles -

I was in Georgia and kept seeing black men with that flag on their shirts cars and etc.
So being from the liberal la la land of California, I asked one of them at a gas station about their donning of the flag.
He tells me and I quote, "Pardon me sir, but you y'all must be a Yankee to think I'm not proud of this flag"!


It was the battle flag taken up by people set on killing my fellow Americans for a evil cause. Thats all I need to know
 
2012-11-30 12:19:47 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: The Holocaust is hardly the be all end all of nazi crimes.


OK, unless I missed where they killed millions of other civilians in some other thing, I would say it was.
 
2012-11-30 12:19:58 PM  
Publikwerks


It was the battle flag taken up by people set on killing my fellow Americans for a evil cause. Thats all I need to know



Probably all you can handle, too. Best not think too deeply.
 
2012-11-30 12:20:04 PM  

ObscureNameHere: Oh, some of you USA-ians are a funny bunch. Makes being neighbours interesting.

"Ha-Ha! Lookit dem silly Muslins over der in de Muddle Yeast, fighting over stuff that happened touwsands of yars ago..."

*[incident causes offence to a Southern state]*

"Balargh! War of Northin Agressin! SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN!"


Interesting you should say that in a thread full of yankees shiatting themselves with rage over an earpiece.
 
2012-11-30 12:20:20 PM  
Neo-Nazis, Klansmen, and morons love the Confederate flag.
 
2012-11-30 12:20:27 PM  

Publikwerks: WorldKnowledge: If you want to fall for the looking-for-a-reason to be offended propaganda, be my guest.

Here's a little know reality in your circles -

I was in Georgia and kept seeing black men with that flag on their shirts cars and etc.
So being from the liberal la la land of California, I asked one of them at a gas station about their donning of the flag.
He tells me and I quote, "Pardon me sir, but you y'all must be a Yankee to think I'm not proud of this flag"!

It was the battle flag taken up by people set on killing my fellow Americans for a evil cause. Thats all I need to know


The America flag was taken up by people bent on killing other people for an evil cause too. Get over it.
 
2012-11-30 12:21:13 PM  

kindms: I don't recall anyone accusing those dukes boys as being racist ?

[www.northerntool.com image 400x400]

I thought that would be Boss hog


The guy who played Warrick on CSI was on one of those "pimp my ride" shows where he had the new Dodge Challenger and they put the Stars and Bars on it but in the colors of the Jamaican flag. I thought that was pretty cool....mon!
 
2012-11-30 12:22:21 PM  
Aww hell, did the Germans bomb Fort Sumter again?
 
2012-11-30 12:23:10 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Joe Blowme: Funny how much outrage people have over this past yet silent on current countries that have slaves today.
Including the modern United States.
The slave trade now is arguably as large as it ever has been, in terms of the number of slaves being brought in.


From your chart I see you forgot to count the economic slavery of minimum wage earners currently struggling to keep ahead of their bills.
 
2012-11-30 12:23:52 PM  

Publikwerks: Holocaust Agnostic: The Holocaust is hardly the be all end all of nazi crimes.

OK, unless I missed where they killed millions of other civilians in some other thing, I would say it was.


I'd say it wasn't the be all but it was the end all...
 
2012-11-30 12:24:08 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: farking South.

Never won a war.


We did pretty well winning the Revolution to save all the yankees that had been captured (New York, Boston, Philly...)

thomsonpark.files.wordpress.com 

First Victory of the Revolution: Battle Of Sullivan's Island, Charleston SC. June 28, 1776.
 
2012-11-30 12:24:35 PM  

Doom MD: You're not refuting anything I have posited. The confederate states seceded (largely) because of slavery. The Civil War, however, was fought because the United States fought with the belief that a state lacks the ability to secede from the Union. Do you see the distinction I'm making here?


I understand the distinction...but it isn't correct.

There was a legal argument to be made, but the seceding states decided to resort to force of arms.

And what event moved it from legal to martial? An attack on a Federal installation.

The Confederacy could have taken things through courts, but they chose force.

And, finally, the war itself didn't resolve the question of secession - the Supreme Court did.

Texas v. White (1870).

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?
...
When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.
...
Considered therefore as transactions under the Constitution, the ordinance of secession, adopted by the convention and ratified by a majority of the citizens of Texas, and all the acts of her legislature intended to give effect to that ordinance, were absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law. The obligations of the State, as a member of the Union, and of every citizen of the State, as a citizen of the United States, remained perfect and unimpaired. It certainly follows that the State did not cease to be a State, nor her citizens to be citizens of the Union. If this were otherwise, the State must have become foreign, and her citizens foreigners. The war must have ceased to be a war for the suppression of rebellion, and must have become a war for conquest and subjugation.


The Confederacy did not seek consent from the other states, didn't try the court system, and lost their war of rebellion.

They chose poorly.
 
2012-11-30 12:25:24 PM  

Publikwerks: WorldKnowledge: If you want to fall for the looking-for-a-reason to be offended propaganda, be my guest.

Here's a little know reality in your circles -

I was in Georgia and kept seeing black men with that flag on their shirts cars and etc.
So being from the liberal la la land of California, I asked one of them at a gas station about their donning of the flag.
He tells me and I quote, "Pardon me sir, but you y'all must be a Yankee to think I'm not proud of this flag"!

It was the battle flag taken up by people set on killing my fellow Americans for a evil cause. Thats all I need to know



Ignorance is bliss.
 
2012-11-30 12:25:29 PM  

Budgie53: HappyTheDog: George Washington owned 316 slaves and he's on the one dollar bill. Give the redneck a break and lighten up Francis.

General U.S.Grant, "The Man Who Saved The Union" owned slaves and he's on the $50 bill.


My 6th great-uncle was Robert E. Lee, yet my name is Grant. What were you thinking Mom?
 
2012-11-30 12:26:08 PM  

Publikwerks: Holocaust Agnostic: The Holocaust is hardly the be all end all of nazi crimes.

OK, unless I missed where they killed millions of other civilians in some other thing, I would say it was.


The Russians would like a word with you.
 
2012-11-30 12:27:27 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: rufus-t-firefly: [i48.photobucket.com image 425x425]

You know what the only thing offensive in that picture is?

Some cocksucking sons of biatches stole Bill Watterson's creation and used it on a whole line of stupid, retarded stickers like that.


And I'm sure our freedom-loving patriots in the south would just respect the right of someone to have such a sticker if it was on someone's vehicle. Nothing bad would happen to the vehicle at all.
 
2012-11-30 12:27:54 PM  

super_grass: Publikwerks: WorldKnowledge: If you want to fall for the looking-for-a-reason to be offended propaganda, be my guest.

Here's a little know reality in your circles -

I was in Georgia and kept seeing black men with that flag on their shirts cars and etc.
So being from the liberal la la land of California, I asked one of them at a gas station about their donning of the flag.
He tells me and I quote, "Pardon me sir, but you y'all must be a Yankee to think I'm not proud of this flag"!

It was the battle flag taken up by people set on killing my fellow Americans for a evil cause. Thats all I need to know

The America flag was taken up by people bent on killing other people for an evil cause too. Get over it.


And when I fly it, I full acknowledge that. From the beginning, we did awful things. Hell, even recently, with Japanese internment durring WWII, or the treatment of Muslims. But I also know we are getting better.

All I'm asking is for Southerners to do the same. If you feel that your "Southern Heritage" of fierce independence coupled with treason and slavery is worth celebrating, that's your right. But don't be surprised when I call you on it.

My Heritage.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-30 12:28:40 PM  
i138.photobucket.com
The Mozambique flag must offend a lot of people it has a scary gun on it!
 
2012-11-30 12:29:43 PM  

the_rev: [www.insideedition.com image 605x340]

Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Seriously, I mean, I don't understand what the issue is. And if it IS an issue, well then Bubba Bruce and Coy are gonna be pissed they can't fly there suthin flag up here no more.

GAH. Stop inventing shiat to be pissed off about people.
 
2012-11-30 12:29:44 PM  
This issue plagues my daughter's high school on a regular basis. They play Dixie every morning on the PA before the daily farking "benediction".

asscmail.hayscisd.net

NOT my daughter, thank goodness.

haysfreepress.com

Link

Link

Link
 
2012-11-30 12:29:54 PM  
i220.photobucket.com
This is the current official Confederate National flag and will remain so until the Confederate Congress reconvenes and officially decides on the matter. So, you southerners aren't doing it right.
 
2012-11-30 12:30:20 PM  
The NAZIs killed thousands and thousands of Sinti and Roma. They abrogated their peace treaty with Russia. They euthanized their mental patients. They helped Franco during the Spanish Civil War. They banned syncopated music, they destroyed books and artwork. . .
 
2012-11-30 12:30:20 PM  
We are going to be really farked if/when China starts to advocate an independent Confederacy.
 
2012-11-30 12:31:42 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: We did pretty well winning the Revolution to save all the yankees that had been captured (New York, Boston, Philly...)


That is the stupidest thing I've heard today. You'll get bites.
 
2012-11-30 12:31:53 PM  

Onkel Buck: The Mozambique flag must offend a lot of people it has a scary gun on it!


That flag is so farking awesome.
 
2012-11-30 12:32:03 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: StoPPeRmobile: farking South.

Never won a war.

We did pretty well winning the Revolution to save all the yankees that had been captured (New York, Boston, Philly...)

[thomsonpark.files.wordpress.com image 822x511] 

First Victory of the Revolution: Battle Of Sullivan's Island, Charleston SC. June 28, 1776.


Kraftwerk Orange: StoPPeRmobile: farking South.

Never won a war.

We did pretty well winning the Revolution to save all the yankees that had been captured (New York, Boston, Philly...)

[thomsonpark.files.wordpress.com image 822x511] 

First Victory of the Revolution: Battle Of Sullivan's Island, Charleston SC. June 28, 1776.


Are you on crack? Washington and and Massachusetts colonials drove the British out of Boston March 17, 1776
 
2012-11-30 12:32:19 PM  

hinten: The fact that country music has adopted this symbol speaks to the intellectual power that goes into that whole musical culture.


I agree. They should have chosen something more classy like a giant diamond encrusted dollar sign.
 
2012-11-30 12:32:23 PM  

Publikwerks: Holocaust Agnostic: The Holocaust is hardly the be all end all of nazi crimes.

OK, unless I missed where they killed millions of other civilians in some other thing, I would say it was.


The 11 million or so they killed through forced labor/forced starvation/just shooting people in the occupied parts of the Soviet union?
 
2012-11-30 12:33:16 PM  

ObscureNameHere: Oh, some of you USA-ians are a funny bunch. Makes being neighbours interesting.

"Ha-Ha! Lookit dem silly Muslins over der in de Muddle Yeast, fighting over stuff that happened touwsands of yars ago..."

*[incident causes offence to a Southern state]*

"Balargh! War of Northin Agressin! SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN!"


Yeah, whateva, eh?

www.bloomberg.com

www.thecanadaguide.com 

\hoser.
 
2012-11-30 12:33:18 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: StoPPeRmobile: farking South.

Never won a war.

We did pretty well winning the Revolution to save all the yankees that had been captured (New York, Boston, Philly...)

[thomsonpark.files.wordpress.com image 822x511] 

First Victory of the Revolution: Battle Of Sullivan's Island, Charleston SC. June 28, 1776.


Not to mention the Mexican War.

www.navicache.com
 
2012-11-30 12:33:47 PM  

Headso: Joe Blowme: IMHO. Freedom, this is how it works.

We also have the freedom to make fun of people who wear confederate flags or tattoo their faces or put gigantic gauges in their ears or whatever. I agree that getting mad or outraged about it is silly though.


I'm not outraged about it.

I just don't like it when people say there's no reason for anyone to be outraged about it.

I am not outraged by much...but I understand that some people will be offended by things, and some people will say those people shouldn't be offended or outraged - even though different people have different reactions to EVERYTHING.
 
2012-11-30 12:34:05 PM  

Therion: In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Confederate flags meant {Beavis voice} "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!" {/Beavis voice}

It wasn't until the 90s that Confederate flags started being strongly equated with Slavery and Racism, and an awful lot of folks still think that Confederate flags still mean "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!"

I think those people (what do you mean, those people?) still wear/ use the symbol to "stick it to the libs!"

To educated folks it's a symbol of oppression, to uneducated folks it's a symbol of cool. Screaming at the uneducated that their cool symbol is a hate symbol isn't the way to educate them.

(lived in the North most of my life, in Austin the last two decades, and I haven't owned anything with a Confederate flag on it since being a teenager. Comment added before some dumbass accuses me of "defending the Confederate flag")


Yeah, this. The Dukes of Hazzard had a car called the General Lee that had a huge Confederate flag on the roof. I don't remember much public outcry back then. As you said, it didn't really have 'racist' connotations until the 90's for some reason.
 
2012-11-30 12:34:50 PM  
My roommate (from Texas) has a CSA tattoo and a rebel flag hanging in his room. Yet he plays with the Iraqi kids and goes camping with their parents. The Tamils from India just love him, the majority of his friends are black and his best friend is black. He's politically a democrat.

He does regret the tattoo (left over from his reenactment days). When people see it, they make assumptions about him. We were working on a poverty project and when people noticed it, they shied away from him.

Really, the most blatant racism I ever saw was in Maryland. Several people came up to me to try and explain why bigotry was correct. I wasn't running my mouth either. I just made a comment about something and they sought me out. I didn't see any flags though.

I never understood the Nazi memorabilia affection either. One guy I knew explained his as identifying with the regular Germans who were picked up and ground up in the machine of a war over which they had no personal power. Identifying a sort of hopelessness. The uniform of someone who strove, but was doomed. I don't know what to think about that. I was surprised to here him say it, because I assumed he was just a Nazi. He's the only guy who ever explained his fascination to me. I don't think most people thank that much about it.

/I do know where I am, but don't care. Somebody get me a drink and put me in cell 2.
 
2012-11-30 12:34:56 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: Publikwerks: Holocaust Agnostic: The Holocaust is hardly the be all end all of nazi crimes.

OK, unless I missed where they killed millions of other civilians in some other thing, I would say it was.

The 11 million or so they killed through forced labor/forced starvation/just shooting people in the occupied parts of the Soviet union?


You know, I'll admit I wasn't thinking about that. Your right.
 
2012-11-30 12:36:34 PM  

olddeegee: [i220.photobucket.com image 328x219]
This is the current official Confederate National flag and will remain so until the Confederate Congress reconvenes and officially decides on the matter. So, you southerners aren't doing it right.


The one they're using is approved by the Ku Klux Klan, so that will just have to do.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-30 12:37:54 PM  

sweetmelissa31: My great-great grandparents were shot into a ditch in Belarus because they were Jews.

They had it almost as hard as white Southerners in 2012 who can't wear Confederate flags without being criticized.


You farking win the thread, and I thank you for making the point succinctly.
 
2012-11-30 12:39:00 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Joe Blowme: Funny how much outrage people have over this past yet silent on current countries that have slaves today.

Including the modern United States.

[www.bbqchickenrobot.com image 604x300]

The slave trade now is arguably as large as it ever has been, in terms of the number of slaves being brought in.


You need help with math
 
2012-11-30 12:40:13 PM  
Despite the controversy surrounding the Confederate flag, I thought the image on his earpiece was just out of place. It could have been a US flag, and it still would have been out of place for the program.

I was watching the show and figured there'd be hell to pay once people noticed it.
 
2012-11-30 12:41:08 PM  

sweetmelissa31: sweetmelissa31: FriarReb98: I'm sure the millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Janists who still use swastikas in their religion share your view.

Are you the kind of guy who has a Nazi flag tattoo and claim you just intended it as a Buddhist symbol?

Ah I should have checked your profile before hand. Complaining about "political correctness"? Check. A whole section about your Caucasian heritage? Check.


Seriously. How shameful for a white person to even hint at having 'heritage' unless of course it is presented purely in the form of an apology for inventing slavery.
 
2012-11-30 12:41:10 PM  

doubled99: *yawn.
Lighten up Francis. You seem to be stuck in a time period you can't even comprehend.

None of that shiat has anything to do with why people display the rebel flag on their shirt, or earpiece or whatever.


You either don't live in the south, or talk to people who adamant in flying the confederate flag on a regular basis. There is an exceptionally strong insurrectionist and secessionist attitude among most confederate flag flyers that they are morally right, the U.S. is wrong, and their "country" will rise again.

Spend some time in small town Alabama or South Carolina. Chat with them for an hour or two. You'll understand exactly why the fly the rebel flag, and it's not for "old southern culture".
 
2012-11-30 12:41:23 PM  

karnal: The Confederate flag does not represent racism. It was originally a symbol of southern heritage, representing freedom, states rights, individual responsibility, and resistance to an out of control federal government.

No slave ship ever sailed from a Confederate port or under a Confederate flag.

Ulysses S. Grant during the Civil War was a slave holder.
Robert E. Lee was against slavery.

Racist groups have used the Confederate flag in recent years but the Ku Klux Klan, have historically used the American flag for a much longer period of time.


hush now - there's no convincing people about history. They need a demographic to hate and they've chosen people from the South. It's our cross to bear.

/saw more racism in the north than I ever did in the south.
 
2012-11-30 12:43:13 PM  

the_rev: Ah. There it is. This is what everyone's all butthurt about? Tapdancing Christ on a cracker...people will go to such great pains to find something to be offended about.


And some go to great pains to offend. *shrug*

Wonder how long it took him to find a confederate flag-branded earpiece.

Anyway, he did mean something. He meant he flunked American History and HEEEECAAAAN'THEEEEEAAAAAARRYOOOOOOOOUUUUUULALALALALALALALALALALALA...
 
2012-11-30 12:43:47 PM  

FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.


This. SO MUCH OF THIS.
 
2012-11-30 12:44:20 PM  

dr_blasto: hdhale: dr_blasto: kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection

Armed insurrection in support of slavery.

Armed insurrection in support of states' rights, actually.

Also, the flag you see typically used by "just the good o' boys never meaning no harm..." is actually the Confederate Battle Flag, not the official flag of the Confederate States of America.

[www.sonofthesouth.net image 650x476]

The Confederate Battle Flag was carried by Confederate armies through the Civil War and while you might think that the flag of the losing army shouldn't be a source of pride, there are millions of decedents of many thousands of Confederate soldiers that served their state and their communities proudly that would tell you that you are wrong. They fought well and most gave everything they had. There was much mutual respect between the veterans of both armies at the end of that war--because it was earned.

Yes, I'm aware it is the battle flag. I'm also aware it is state's rights to maintain slavery.


Slavery was the primary issue under the States' Rights umbrella, but not the only issue. People who didn't own slaves nor work for people who did were concerned about the reach of the Federal government into local affairs, trade and tariffs, and the like. It was Lincoln that made the war all about slavery and the national narrative followed that line after the war.

It's interesting how states' rights has come back from the dead as an issue, and is no longer focused on economics or on one particular region. The issue of the Federal government micromanaging local affairs however is a common theme and much of what those in 1861 feared would happen came true long ago.

rufus-t-firefly: If we're going to talk about history, let's at least get the basic facts straight.


The basic facts are that with the exception of a few units in the Trans-Mississippi region, the square or rectangular version of the Confederate battle flag was used by all the Confederate armies as they standardized their colors. Since I know you aren't one of those guys that spends hours getting just the proper shade of butternut on the uniform blouses for his Civil War miniatures set, are we done here?
 
2012-11-30 12:44:25 PM  
He should just do this.....

www.freedomsphoenix.com
 
2012-11-30 12:46:24 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: StoPPeRmobile: farking South.

Never won a war.

We did pretty well winning the Revolution to save all the yankees that had been captured (New York, Boston, Philly...)

First Victory of the Revolution: Battle Of Sullivan's Island, Charleston SC. June 28, 1776.


Well done!
 
2012-11-30 12:47:50 PM  

Rostin: The US government intentionally withheld syphilis treatments from black people in a long running medical experiment that lasted until 1972. It also interned Japanese people in WWII, continued screwing over Native Americans well into the 20th century, and is indirectly responsible for the deaths of an estimated 100,000 Iraqi citizens.

Why is it acceptable to wear a US flag but not a Confederate one? It's certainly not because the US has been a great respecter of the rights of minorities. The only reason I can think of is that the CSA lost.


Oh Snap!
 
2012-11-30 12:48:09 PM  

SoupJohnB: Wait now - does this guy play "Country," or Western?"

/Blues Bros

//oblig


He plays neither
 
2012-11-30 12:48:47 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

Its no more offensive than the US flag.



"What the [American] flag is, is a symbol of terrorism and death and fear and destruction and oppression."Jennie Traschen UMass prof. 10 Sept 2001
 
2012-11-30 12:51:02 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Doom MD: You're not refuting anything I have posited. The confederate states seceded (largely) because of slavery. The Civil War, however, was fought because the United States fought with the belief that a state lacks the ability to secede from the Union. Do you see the distinction I'm making here?

I understand the distinction...but it isn't correct.

There was a legal argument to be made, but the seceding states decided to resort to force of arms.

And what event moved it from legal to martial? An attack on a Federal installation.

The Confederacy could have taken things through courts, but they chose force.

And, finally, the war itself didn't resolve the question of secession - the Supreme Court did.

Texas v. White (1870).

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?
...
When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the ...


To be fair, the installation was in South Carolina. I agree with you that I would've preferred a legal avenue be attempted first, but would the conclusion have been any different? Do you really think the federal government would've allowed half the country to secede? The supreme court case officially put the matter to bed, but really, 5 years after the war it's a bit of an afterthought.

Truth be told I am still working out my feelings about the entire war. It's sad how much life was lost over it. I applaud the ending of slavery and I'm happy the Union was held intact. Still, states rights did take a hit. A state not being allowed to leave the Union? I dont know, it just doesn't sit quite right with me that such a thing could be enforced with violence. There's already many, many disincentives to rescind statehood, but an argument could be made this ability would be a good balance of powers between state and federal government in extreme circumstances.
 
2012-11-30 12:51:25 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: Therion: In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Confederate flags meant {Beavis voice} "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!" {/Beavis voice}

It wasn't until the 90s that Confederate flags started being strongly equated with Slavery and Racism, and an awful lot of folks still think that Confederate flags still mean "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!"

I think those people (what do you mean, those people?) still wear/ use the symbol to "stick it to the libs!"

To educated folks it's a symbol of oppression, to uneducated folks it's a symbol of cool. Screaming at the uneducated that their cool symbol is a hate symbol isn't the way to educate them.

(lived in the North most of my life, in Austin the last two decades, and I haven't owned anything with a Confederate flag on it since being a teenager. Comment added before some dumbass accuses me of "defending the Confederate flag")

Yeah, this. The Dukes of Hazzard had a car called the General Lee that had a huge Confederate flag on the roof. I don't remember much public outcry back then. As you said, it didn't really have 'racist' connotations until the 90's for some reason.


Nope. None at all.

i1245.photobucket.com

wwwdelivery.superstock.com

www.africanafrican.com

i48.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-30 12:52:32 PM  
Trace Adkins, attention whore
 
2012-11-30 12:53:21 PM  

Amos Quito: Publikwerks: WorldKnowledge: If you want to fall for the looking-for-a-reason to be offended propaganda, be my guest.

Here's a little know reality in your circles -

I was in Georgia and kept seeing black men with that flag on their shirts cars and etc.
So being from the liberal la la land of California, I asked one of them at a gas station about their donning of the flag.
He tells me and I quote, "Pardon me sir, but you y'all must be a Yankee to think I'm not proud of this flag"!

It was the battle flag taken up by people set on killing my fellow Americans for a evil cause. Thats all I need to know


Ignorance is bliss.



That explains why you are so blissfull
 
2012-11-30 12:53:42 PM  
The new standard for freedom of expression is that you can do what you want as long as nobody is offended
 
2012-11-30 12:53:58 PM  
I used to drive around the D.C. area with a big rebel flag draped over the back seat.

Not a single person said a word about it.....to my face.

I also like to wear a Cowboys football jacket during football season.

There were lots of people said things about that.
 
2012-11-30 12:54:42 PM  

karnal:

Feigned outrage is just pathetic


Yet so fashionable these days...
 
2012-11-30 12:55:09 PM  

SkunkWerks:

Wonder how long it took him to find a confederate flag-branded earpiece.


Oh I don't know....2 seconds on the internet?

Link

I don't know that they actually offer one, but I was amazed at the sheer number of silly "rebel" stuff stores there are, proving to me that no one takes this seriously and the butthurts should really step back and listen to how childish and silly they sound.

/yes, I know I used 'silly' twice
//trying not to use 'stupid' today
///I don't care if someone wants to fly some fake bravado, they probably have a small penis and/or a meth whore wife/gf/sister/cousin
 
2012-11-30 12:56:01 PM  

hasty ambush: "What the [American] flag is, is a symbol of terrorism and death and fear and destruction and oppression."Jennie Traschen UMass prof. 10 Sept 2001


I'm sort of confused as to how you heard about that. I know her, and I have never heard about that before. She's not exactly a well-known person.
 
2012-11-30 12:57:14 PM  
Was Francis Keyes racist when he wrote a poem about a flag representing a nation that supported slavery?

How about the Flag of the Revolution?
 
2012-11-30 12:57:34 PM  
 
2012-11-30 12:59:10 PM  

Doom MD: rufus-t-firefly: Doom MD: You're not refuting anything I have posited. The confederate states seceded (largely) because of slavery. The Civil War, however, was fought because the United States fought with the belief that a state lacks the ability to secede from the Union. Do you see the distinction I'm making here?

I understand the distinction...but it isn't correct.

There was a legal argument to be made, but the seceding states decided to resort to force of arms.

And what event moved it from legal to martial? An attack on a Federal installation.

The Confederacy could have taken things through courts, but they chose force.

And, finally, the war itself didn't resolve the question of secession - the Supreme Court did.

Texas v. White (1870).

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?
...
When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the ...

To be fair, the installation was in South Carolina. I agree with you that I would've preferred a legal avenue be attempted first, but would the conclusion have been any different? Do you really think the federal government would've allowed half the country to secede? The supreme court case officially put the matter to bed, but really, 5 years after the war it's a bit of an afterthought.

Truth be told I am still working out my feelings about the entire war. It's sad how much life was lost over it. I applaud the ending of slavery and I'm happy the Union was held intact. Still, states rights did take a hit. A state not being allowed to leave the Union? I dont know, it just doesn't sit quite right with me that such a thing could be enforced with violence. There's already many, many disincentives to rescind statehood, but an argument could be made this ability would be a good balance of powers between state and federal government in extreme circumstances.


Priorities dude. If a bunch of states seceded today I'd be all for it. But slavers need their countries burned down around their ears and unionists are a perfectly acceptable tool for that task.

I'm all for "neither this nor that" but lesser evilism does very occasionally have a place. Basically, I guess what I'm trying to say is Both Sides Are Bad, So Burn Down Atlanta.
 
2012-11-30 12:59:35 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Samwise Gamgee: Therion: In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Confederate flags meant {Beavis voice} "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!" {/Beavis voice}

It wasn't until the 90s that Confederate flags started being strongly equated with Slavery and Racism, and an awful lot of folks still think that Confederate flags still mean "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!"

I think those people (what do you mean, those people?) still wear/ use the symbol to "stick it to the libs!"

To educated folks it's a symbol of oppression, to uneducated folks it's a symbol of cool. Screaming at the uneducated that their cool symbol is a hate symbol isn't the way to educate them.

(lived in the North most of my life, in Austin the last two decades, and I haven't owned anything with a Confederate flag on it since being a teenager. Comment added before some dumbass accuses me of "defending the Confederate flag")

Yeah, this. The Dukes of Hazzard had a car called the General Lee that had a huge Confederate flag on the roof. I don't remember much public outcry back then. As you said, it didn't really have 'racist' connotations until the 90's for some reason.

Nope. None at all.

[i1245.photobucket.com image 850x598]

[wwwdelivery.superstock.com image 230x350]

[www.africanafrican.com image 800x961]

[i48.photobucket.com image 824x1024]


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-30 12:59:36 PM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: What a buffoon. Not only does he wear the damn thing but then he back peddles when he gets called on it. If you're going to wear it, f*cking own it, you twit.
Now he's a traitor to his country and a traitor to the confederacy. A traitor squared, if you will.
(and a racist)
(and a coward)


Looks to me like you're ready to be butthurt no matter what the guy does.
 
2012-11-30 12:59:38 PM  

Cythraul: sigdiamond2000: Anyone ever heard the phrase "northern heritage" used by anyone?

No. But I've heard of the term 'Northern Aggression.' :)


War of Northern Victory, please. Or informally "War of Sherman Making The South His biatch".
 
2012-11-30 12:59:43 PM  

mcwehrle: no one takes this seriously


Country singer Trace Adkins does. Seriously enough to specifically go out and wear one, and on national TV, no less.

Really, the "you should just chill out" argument cuts both ways. If the confederate flag is "no big deal" then it's "no big deal" to stop wearing it, now is it?
 
2012-11-30 01:00:56 PM  
Khellendros Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-30 12:41:10 PM


doubled99: *yawn.
Lighten up Francis. You seem to be stuck in a time period you can't even comprehend.

None of that shiat has anything to do with why people display the rebel flag on their shirt, or earpiece or whatever.

You either don't live in the south, or talk to people who adamant in flying the confederate flag on a regular basis. There is an exceptionally strong insurrectionist and secessionist attitude among most confederate flag flyers that they are morally right, the U.S. is wrong, and their "country" will rise again.

Spend some time in small town Alabama or South Carolina. Chat with them for an hour or two. You'll understand exactly why the fly the rebel flag, and it's not for "old southern culture".


Lived in Atlanta for 8 years. Only met two backwoods farks in my entire time there that expressed anything even close to this nonsense. And both of them were the butt of jokes even to their friends.
 
2012-11-30 01:00:58 PM  
Idiot southerners (and norhterners) who wave a confederate flag amaze me because they advertise a willfull ignorance of their hown history.

Link
 
2012-11-30 01:01:56 PM  

Gunslinger013: karnal:

Feigned outrage is just pathetic

Yet so fashionable these days...


Yes, that is how this


farm3.staticflickr.com

Became this

commemorativeairforce.org
 
BOZ
2012-11-30 01:03:03 PM  
All of you folks who are saying the Confederate flag is a racist symbol are youthful idiots. It is only in the last 20 or 30 years that is has come to be branded as such by those wanting to stir up shiat. If you don't like that flag, then don't pay attention to it. As far as I know the flag has never hurt anyone. And if you are one of those racists that use the confederate flag to promote your thoughts, well screw you too.
 
2012-11-30 01:03:06 PM  
garotasperversas.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-30 01:03:11 PM  
South Park pretty well summed up the Trace types
 
2012-11-30 01:05:07 PM  

0z79: I know what the Confederate flag has come to represent, but I also understand that after a certain point, it was flown by people who didn't give a crap about all that, they were defending their homes from assholes who were coming in to kill, rape, pillage and steal; to them, that flag represented the pride in what they worked for and their right to defend it.

The South deserves a -lot- of the derision it gets, but it's willful ignorance to believe that the Yankees were 100% saints during that period.


Exactly. It would be very interesting to hear the views of the north on this issue if it had the climate for large plantation style agriculture.

/in Cincinnati
 
2012-11-30 01:05:21 PM  
Confederate Flag != Swastika

/nice troll, submitter, +1
 
2012-11-30 01:05:36 PM  

kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.


Isn't the US as a whole based on a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection? Our flag should be:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-30 01:05:59 PM  

The_Sponge: FirstNationalBastard: FriarReb98: dr_blasto: /just don't like modern shiatty country music

I prefer to refer to it as "Southern Pop." It belongs with classic country as much as a whale belongs in the middle of Kansas, with Taylor Swift being the (admittedly hot) poster child for why my title is apt.

Agreed.

Popular Country Music is what we should all be offended by. It's not country, it's pop with violins (fiddle is too country a word to use anymore). It's made by frustrated wannabe popstars, and marketed toward minivan driving soccer moms.

But it is NOT COUNTRY.9

Now, real country music still lives on... they call it Alt Country (among other labels) now. You can find it with some digging... satellite radio, the internet, but you'll never hear real country on TV or FM radio ever again, because it's not as marketable as blonde barbie pop star wannabe shaking her ass and singing her latest girl power anthem.


I never thought it would be possible for somebody to be a country music hipster.

/I keed.


It's related to Rule #34. If it exists, there is a hipster of it.
 
2012-11-30 01:07:11 PM  

Gunslinger013: Louisiana_Sitar_Club: What a buffoon. Not only does he wear the damn thing but then he back peddles when he gets called on it. If you're going to wear it, f*cking own it, you twit.
Now he's a traitor to his country and a traitor to the confederacy. A traitor squared, if you will.
(and a racist)
(and a coward)

Looks to me like you're ready to be butthurt no matter what the guy does.


Make no mistake, I am indeed always ready to be butthurt. It's kind of a hobby of mine.

That being a given, my point is this. However you choose to represent yourself, do it like you mean it. This guy wants to be seen as a confederate loyalist to his slackjawed fans but can't take the heat when he gets called out on it. The jerk off needs to choose a side and go balls out. Otherwise, he's a coward. (as he demonstrated)
 
2012-11-30 01:07:26 PM  

sweetmelissa31: hasty ambush: "What the [American] flag is, is a symbol of terrorism and death and fear and destruction and oppression."Jennie Traschen UMass prof. 10 Sept 2001

I'm sort of confused as to how you heard about that. I know her, and I have never heard about that before. She's not exactly a well-known person.


The wonders of the internet:

skip to about the 1:10:00 mark
 
2012-11-30 01:07:27 PM  

hasty ambush: The new standard for freedom of expression is that you can do what you want as long as nobody is offended


Bullshiat. You can wave a toilet rag if you want. But I have just as much right to call you an ignorant douchebag for doing it.

Freedom of expression goes both ways.
 
2012-11-30 01:08:14 PM  

hdhale: rufus-t-firefly: If we're going to talk about history, let's at least get the basic facts straight.

The basic facts are that with the exception of a few units in the Trans-Mississippi region, the square or rectangular version of the Confederate battle flag was used by all the Confederate armies as they standardized their colors. Since I know you aren't one of those guys that spends hours getting just the proper shade of butternut on the uniform blouses for his Civil War miniatures set, are we done here?


I don't see any citations, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Every reference I've seen explains things the way I understand them, but I'm open to learning new things.

HOWEVER...

Now, it's established that the "Confederate flag" as it is generally known was the battle flag of the Confederacy. So..."patriots" are flying a flag that was used in battle against the armies of the United States.

United States Constitution, Article 3, Section 3:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them
, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Thus, the flag represents treason.

If we were talking about the actual Stars and Bars - or, hell state flags - it could be argued that the flag represents an idea. But a flag that was actually used by those were were literally levying war against the United States via bullets and shells.

Flying a flag that was used in battle against the United States, and saying it represents your beliefs, means that you sympathize with traitors. You might as well put up a statue of Benedict Arnold in front of your house - he just had "unpopular opinions," you know.

But, in all honesty, I couldn't give a rat's ass if someone plasters that flag all over their vehicle and their clothes. But claiming that it ONLY represents "freedom" or "states' rights" or "heritage" is insulting to everyone's intelligence. 

Not that you were saying these things - just that I hear it all the farking time because I live in Texas.
 
2012-11-30 01:08:24 PM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

A good Rebel
 
2012-11-30 01:09:14 PM  

jshine: Isn't the US as a whole based on a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection? Our flag should be:


It's only treason if you lose. Or as the SEALs say "It Pays to be a Winner".
 
2012-11-30 01:09:50 PM  

hasty ambush: Gunslinger013: karnal:

Feigned outrage is just pathetic

Yet so fashionable these days...

Yes, that is how this


[farm3.staticflickr.com image 640x638]

Became this

[commemorativeairforce.org image 172x180]


Holy shiat... the Confederates had an Air Force? How the hell did they lose?
 
2012-11-30 01:10:16 PM  

jshine: kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.

Isn't the US as a whole based on a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection? Our flag should be:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x400]


Right, but winning a revolution means you're legitimate. We won, made peace, and later allied with our founding nation.

It's all good.
 
2012-11-30 01:10:47 PM  

hdhale: dr_blasto: kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection

Armed insurrection in support of slavery.

Armed insurrection in support of states' rights, actually.

Also, the flag you see typically used by "just the good o' boys never meaning no harm..." is actually the Confederate Battle Flag, not the official flag of the Confederate States of America.

[www.sonofthesouth.net image 650x476]

The Confederate Battle Flag was carried by Confederate armies through the Civil War and while you might think that the flag of the losing army shouldn't be a source of pride, there are millions of decedents of many thousands of Confederate soldiers that served their state and their communities proudly that would tell you that you are wrong. They fought well and most gave everything they had. There was much mutual respect between the veterans of both armies at the end of that war--because it was earned.


Once again proving why I have you farkied.
 
2012-11-30 01:11:50 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: If a bunch of states seceded today I'd be all for it. But slavers need their countries burned down around their ears and unionists are a perfectly acceptable tool for that task.

I'm all for "neither this nor that" but lesser evilism does very occasionally have a place. Basically, I guess what I'm trying to say is Both Sides Are Bad, So Burn Down Atlanta.


Pretty much THIS.
 
2012-11-30 01:12:37 PM  

SkunkWerks: mcwehrle: no one takes this seriously

Country singer Trace Adkins does. Seriously enough to specifically go out and wear one, and on national TV, no less.

Really, the "you should just chill out" argument cuts both ways. If the confederate flag is "no big deal" then it's "no big deal" to stop wearing it, now is it?


I think you may have misunderstood my intent.

Trace Adkins is a "country" (for the sake of clarity, not inviting opinion) singer. "Country" singers, self proclaimed "rebel rednecks" and the like proudly wear this....symbol of what they think is something awesome. The symbol has become a watered down sidenote of history, which is very sad, but is also true. Adkins not wanting to back off wearing this symbol of whatever to me is much the same as any sillyhead wearing a 'rebel' belt buckle or the like. They don't have a clear meaning of what it ever represented, and when challenged, they go into the only explanation they have ever known.

I don't see that Adkins wearing this thing as a part of his hick hockum 'country' stage persona is a big deal, and I don't know why people are this upset about it. In fact I am truly surprised with the way the whole symbolism of it has been watered down. I still think it's pretty childish for this amount of coverage to be had on Adkins, when at probably at least 500 hick town bars, upscale joints somewhere in the south, etc, have at least some form of 'rebel' accoutrement up with no explanation of the REAL meaning, along with another 1000 or so bad country bands that will be playing this friday and saturday night with a confederate flag painted on the drums or hanging from the wall or on their black t-shirts.

So why no issues there and only with Adkins? That is my point.
 
2012-11-30 01:13:17 PM  

Publikwerks: jshine: Isn't the US as a whole based on a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection? Our flag should be:

It's only treason if you lose. Or as the SEALs say "It Pays to be a Winner".


Exactly. As long as we're not trying to say that "treason is wrong because its morally wrong", but rather "its okay as long as you win" ("might makes right") -- then I'm fine with it. Because that's the real difference between the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. One was successful & its proponents were heroes, the other was not successful and its proponents were traitors.
 
2012-11-30 01:13:53 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

Its no more offensive than the US flag.


I agree with this.
 
2012-11-30 01:16:19 PM  
Yeah.

www.kissmyrebelass.com


Alive and Kickin where I'm from.
 
2012-11-30 01:16:52 PM  

Phony_Soldier: Holocaust Agnostic: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

Its no more offensive than the US flag.

I agree with this.


Pretty much this. When the US was founded, it was founded as a nation of slave-owners who were committing treason, and slavery was written into our very Constitution. Both flags have very dubious beginnings if that's the metric that is going to be used.
 
2012-11-30 01:17:09 PM  

RDixon: I used to drive around the D.C. area with a big rebel flag draped over the back seat.

Not a single person said a word about it.....to my face.

I also like to wear a Cowboys football jacket during football season.

There were lots of people said things about that.


Look out! It's CONTRARY MAN!


/thanks for dropping in to tell us
 
2012-11-30 01:18:06 PM  

Publikwerks: My Heritage.
upload.wikimedia.org



Kinda neat to have the regimental flag- my Great-Great-Great Grandfather (I think that's the right number of greats) was in the navy, so you don't get that. All we really know about what he did during the war is that he was captured and lot a leg at Andersonville. Somebody in the family has copies of his enlistment and discharge papers somewhere too. One of the many Irish immigrants to come over and find themselves fighting in a war just a few years later.
 
2012-11-30 01:19:36 PM  

clane: Very sad that so many ignorant people in this country have convinced themselves this has something to do with racism.


It is sad indeed.
 
2012-11-30 01:20:16 PM  

BOZ: All of you folks who are saying the Confederate flag is a racist symbol are youthful idiots. It is only in the last 20 or 30 years that is has come to be branded as such by those wanting to stir up shiat. If you don't like that flag, then don't pay attention to it. As far as I know the flag has never hurt anyone. And if you are one of those racists that use the confederate flag to promote your thoughts, well screw you too.



True, it's not a racist symbol but rather a symbol carried into battle by a bunch of guys who wanted to preserve chattel slavery as an institution so they could continue to treat people as livestock. Racists may think they descend from a higher form of humanity but rarely do they advocate a viewpoint that would equate people with inanimate objects or beasts of burden.
 
2012-11-30 01:20:42 PM  
So pay him in that confederate money you get at dime stores on the town square in the south -- something like $5,000 for $1.25.
 
2012-11-30 01:21:36 PM  

hasty ambush: The new standard for freedom of expression is that you can do what you want as long as nobody is offended


America: Land of the Offended!
 
2012-11-30 01:23:40 PM  
Trace.

Trace?
 
2012-11-30 01:29:29 PM  
www.global-air.com

Organized after the Civil War, the goal of the Klan was to destroy Congressional Reconstruction by murdering blacks and whites who were active in Republican politics. (new window)
 
2012-11-30 01:29:33 PM  

hdhale: Slavery was the primary issue under the States' Rights umbrella, but not the only issue. People who didn't own slaves nor work for people who did were concerned about the reach of the Federal government into local affairs, trade and tariffs, and the like. It was Lincoln that made the war all about slavery and the national narrative followed that line after the war.



Slavery, the closing of western territories to slavery, and the shift in political balance from an even split between free soil and slave states were the driving causes towards secession. The issue was spun by politicians and interested parties as government overreach into local affairs. Trade and tariffs were an issue BECAUSE of their impact on cotton and tobacco as commodities of trade. Southern views on trade and tariff policy would be tremendously different if the economy had not been dominated by plantation agriculture. So let's not pretend there were a diverse array of issues motivating secession...all roads led to the institution of slavery.

Their own declarations support this as well:

Link
 
2012-11-30 01:34:42 PM  

Cythraul: sigdiamond2000: Anyone ever heard the phrase "northern heritage" used by anyone?

No. But I've heard of the term 'Northern Aggression.' :)


Which is funny because the South fired on the North first.

/the South will rise again but quickly sit back down into their Rascals
 
2012-11-30 01:35:16 PM  

hasty ambush: The new standard for freedom of expression is that you can do what you want as long as nobody is offended



Really asshole? Do you see anyone calling for his arrest? Have the police been called to take him to jail so he can be charged with Disturbing the Peace - Offensive Speech?

The whole "offended" line of thought is broken circular logic. You accuse others of wanting to restrain expression when the ultimate goal of that accusation is to prevent people from expressing how offended they are. While you have every right to be an asshole (by wearing Confederate apparel for example) everyone else has a right to react to your actions and express themselves.
 
2012-11-30 01:36:57 PM  

Joe Blowme: rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: Other symbols of opression and slavery i know all of you who hate the rebel flag also hate, right?
[static.flickr.com image 500x341]
[writetodie.files.wordpress.com image 300x300] 
[www.westernjournalism.com image 299x269] 
[skew.dailyskew.com image 500x400]

How many Soviet flags have you seen out there?

And how many Che Guevara shirts have you seen IN PERSON?

I see a treason flag nearly every single day.

Daily on the Che and soviet flag t shirts,

So you live in Havana?

And if the CSA flag is fine, then why are you bothered by the Che and Soviet images?

It could be argued that neither Che Guevara or the Soviet Union waged war on the United States - unlike the Confederate States.

I don't particularly like traitors and those who wave the flag of treason while claiming to be patriots, but that's just me.

I just try to live and let live, dont like it dont look at it. I dont like the che shirts so i dont wear them but i will not tell others they can not no matter how retarded they are.... IMHO. Freedom, this is how it works.


THANK YOU!
Finally, someone gets it...Che is a murderous asshole, the Soviets killed eradicated more groups of people than the Nazi's killed Jews, the Rebel flag makes people look like inbred hicks.

-BUT-

It is your right to wear it...and look stupid. Freedom. 

"It could be argued that neither Che Guevara or the Soviet Union waged war on the United States - unlike the Confederate States."

Also, WTF on who said this. Ever heard of the Cold War? The Soviets were our SWORN enemy for decades. We may not have gotten in a physical war, but we were definitely at war with them as a country.
 
2012-11-30 01:37:06 PM  

JK47: hdhale: Slavery was the primary issue under the States' Rights umbrella, but not the only issue. People who didn't own slaves nor work for people who did were concerned about the reach of the Federal government into local affairs, trade and tariffs, and the like. It was Lincoln that made the war all about slavery and the national narrative followed that line after the war.


Slavery, the closing of western territories to slavery, and the shift in political balance from an even split between free soil and slave states were the driving causes towards secession. The issue was spun by politicians and interested parties as government overreach into local affairs. Trade and tariffs were an issue BECAUSE of their impact on cotton and tobacco as commodities of trade. Southern views on trade and tariff policy would be tremendously different if the economy had not been dominated by plantation agriculture. So let's not pretend there were a diverse array of issues motivating secession...all roads led to the institution of slavery.

Their own declarations support this as well:

Link


My understanding is Lincoln supported slavery at first. Then, after needing something to galvanize the north, had his come to jesus moment:

From wikipedia: My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.

Lincoln was just a panderer who needlessly got a bunch of people killed.
 
2012-11-30 01:37:51 PM  

doyner: Adkins - on a USO tour in Japan - also called for the preservation of America's battlefields and an "honest conversation about the country's history."

Be careful what you ask for, buddy.


You know, it's possible that he may know something about it. I mean, it's obviously an interest to him, he has the means and the time to delve into it. Just as a for instance: there are those who don't have so much an issue with the war the Civil War went so much as they have an issue with the way the post war occupation and Reconstruction went. Most folks running about with the public school version of American history have practically zero clue how bad it got in the south once the war was over.

The war lasted 4 years...the pillaging and plundering lasted for as long as 16 years in some places. It's no coincidence that the poorest states in the country today tend to be those who were under Reconstruction the longest. Imagine how delightful a place like Massachusetts would be if say nearly everything of worth was taken and those doing the taking had the blessing of the government and 10+ years to clean the place out.

/be careful indeed
 
2012-11-30 01:38:09 PM  
europeanstudieslund.files.wordpress.com

Try and find anything but this in Barcelona. The Catalonians are doing it the right way.
 
2012-11-30 01:39:02 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Samwise Gamgee: Therion: In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Confederate flags meant {Beavis voice} "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!" {/Beavis voice}

It wasn't until the 90s that Confederate flags started being strongly equated with Slavery and Racism, and an awful lot of folks still think that Confederate flags still mean "I'm a Rebel! Rebels are Cool!"

I think those people (what do you mean, those people?) still wear/ use the symbol to "stick it to the libs!"

To educated folks it's a symbol of oppression, to uneducated folks it's a symbol of cool. Screaming at the uneducated that their cool symbol is a hate symbol isn't the way to educate them.

(lived in the North most of my life, in Austin the last two decades, and I haven't owned anything with a Confederate flag on it since being a teenager. Comment added before some dumbass accuses me of "defending the Confederate flag")

Yeah, this. The Dukes of Hazzard had a car called the General Lee that had a huge Confederate flag on the roof. I don't remember much public outcry back then. As you said, it didn't really have 'racist' connotations until the 90's for some reason.

Nope. None at all.

[i1245.photobucket.com image 850x598]

[wwwdelivery.superstock.com image 230x350]

[www.africanafrican.com image 800x961]

[i48.photobucket.com image 824x1024]


In all fairness though, a group's attachment to a symbol does not necessarily speak about the symbol itself. The Tea Party always has a load of American flags at their rallies. Doesn't mean the stars & stripes stands for their idiocy. I'd be those photos are the same way, the flag's seen as a symbol of what they think the current establishment is (even if they're living in a fantasy world). That "ya'll are trying to change our state/country/city!" aspect. Regardless of other connotation conservatives love to wave around stuff that has history - mostly because they're completely unwilling to accept that things change with time.
 
2012-11-30 01:41:40 PM  

hasty ambush: The new standard for freedom of expression is that you can do what you want as long as nobody is offendedyou can handle the criticism for being an asshat


FTFY
 
2012-11-30 01:42:28 PM  

beantowndog: I'm sure he has many blah friends.


And he will be happy to tell you whenever the President is near.
 
2012-11-30 01:43:56 PM  

Gunslinger013: Louisiana_Sitar_Club: What a buffoon. Not only does he wear the damn thing but then he back peddles when he gets called on it. If you're going to wear it, f*cking own it, you twit.
Now he's a traitor to his country and a traitor to the confederacy. A traitor squared, if you will.
(and a racist)
(and a coward)

Looks to me like you're ready to be butthurt no matter what the guy does.


Did someone say "Butthurt?"

I think this is one of those threads where you are more likely to get a level headed debate arguing theology with a goldfish. So I just lurk, waiting for the next "butthurting"
 
2012-11-30 01:44:30 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Joe Blowme: Funny how much outrage people have over this past yet silent on current countries that have slaves today.

Including the modern United States.

[www.bbqchickenrobot.com image 604x300]

The slave trade now is arguably as large as it ever has been, in terms of the number of slaves being brought in.


This. Slavery isn't gone. People are either completely unaware or don't care because these slaves don't speak English.
 
2012-11-30 01:45:10 PM  

Felix_T_Cat: My roommate (from Texas) has a CSA tattoo and a rebel flag hanging in his room. Yet he plays with the Iraqi kids and goes camping with their parents. The Tamils from India just love him, the majority of his friends are black and his best friend is black. He's politically a democrat.

He does regret the tattoo (left over from his reenactment days). When people see it, they make assumptions about him. We were working on a poverty project and when people noticed it, they shied away from him.

Really, the most blatant racism I ever saw was in Maryland. Several people came up to me to try and explain why bigotry was correct. I wasn't running my mouth either. I just made a comment about something and they sought me out. I didn't see any flags though.

I never understood the Nazi memorabilia affection either. One guy I knew explained his as identifying with the regular Germans who were picked up and ground up in the machine of a war over which they had no personal power. Identifying a sort of hopelessness. The uniform of someone who strove, but was doomed. I don't know what to think about that. I was surprised to here him say it, because I assumed he was just a Nazi. He's the only guy who ever explained his fascination to me. I don't think most people thank that much about it.

/I do know where I am, but don't care. Somebody get me a drink and put me in cell 2.


Wecome to my favourites.
 
2012-11-30 01:45:58 PM  

doubled99: Lived in Atlanta for 8 years. Only met two backwoods farks in my entire time there that expressed anything even close to this nonsense. And both of them were the butt of jokes even to their friends.


Did someone say "Butthurt?"...umm...err...false alarm
 
2012-11-30 01:47:13 PM  
It's a symbol of rebellion. That's it. A tamer middle finger.
 
2012-11-30 01:47:45 PM  

kronicfeld: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

You shouldn't even have to reach the "slavery" element, since that just opens the door to the argument that there was more to southern culture than slavery, which is of course true. The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.


What the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection might look like.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-30 01:49:08 PM  

Sybarite: I was deeply offended by Trace Adkins, then later on someone mentioned something about a Confederate flag earpiece.


Exactly. What the fark is this cracker-ass cracker doing at the Rockafeller Center tree-lighting ceremony? Shouldn't he be busy porking some skank under the bleachers at a NASCAR event?
 
2012-11-30 01:50:04 PM  

Butthurted: Gunslinger013: Louisiana_Sitar_Club: What a buffoon. Not only does he wear the damn thing but then he back peddles when he gets called on it. If you're going to wear it, f*cking own it, you twit.
Now he's a traitor to his country and a traitor to the confederacy. A traitor squared, if you will.
(and a racist)
(and a coward)

Looks to me like you're ready to be butthurt no matter what the guy does.

Did someone say "Butthurt?"

I think this is one of those threads where you are more likely to get a level headed debate arguing theology with a goldfish. So I just lurk, waiting for the next "butthurting"


Well then carry on, sir.
 
2012-11-30 02:00:27 PM  
when symbols are displayed, it is important to remember the intent behind those symbols.
some display the rebel flag to promote racism
some display the rebel flag to promote pride in one's homeland
some display the rebel flag to remind people that we are duty bound as citizens to rebel against unconstitutional laws and federal overreach.

my guess is that this guy was of the "southern pride" variety... usually harmless.

a single fist, raised in the air:
"Black Power"
"Power to the People"
"Woohoo! I am enjoying this concert!"
 
2012-11-30 02:03:09 PM  

Khellendros: doubled99: *yawn.
Lighten up Francis. You seem to be stuck in a time period you can't even comprehend.

None of that shiat has anything to do with why people display the rebel flag on their shirt, or earpiece or whatever.

You either don't live in the south, or talk to people who adamant in flying the confederate flag on a regular basis. There is an exceptionally strong insurrectionist and secessionist attitude among most confederate flag flyers that they are morally right, the U.S. is wrong, and their "country" will rise again.

Spend some time in small town Alabama or South Carolina. Chat with them for an hour or two. You'll understand exactly why the fly the rebel flag, and it's not for "old southern culture".


Two problems with that:

1./ I doubt anyone you just met anywhere would consent to speaking to you for two hours about a topic that most folks won't openly discuss just so you can claim that some kind of circumstance exists that doesn't so you can score some kind of imaginary internet debating point years down the road. If you're not from there they treat you politely but you're not their friend or buddy and you won't be privy to a conversation on that topic. Period. Your delusional fantasies not excepting. I can say that because:

2./ I am from there and I've spent way more than "some time" in small southern towns (Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia and old Florida...WVa too but I and they don't count themselves as "south") and I'm pretty clear on why some folk fly a defunct flag. Typically it's about regional pride. I suspect if you were to encounter an actual klanner it might be about racism but for the 30+ years I've lived in the south I've never knowingly encountered one...and I assure you, from the folks my family knows and who their social with these days, if they were about and out in the open about it, I'd have at least have heard of them. I've met and encountered far more folks associated with the mafia in the south than I have ever encountered hard core racists.

Some Southerners have a thing about defining themselves. You see it in loyalty to a truck brand, loyalty to a favorite race driver, and especially loyalty to a college football program. Some of them decide to include integrating a preference for the Confederate battle standard for defining their identity. On that basis, it IS pretty much about southern heritage to them. Your claim of "exceptionally strong insurrectionist and secessionist attitude among most confederate flag flyers" isn't something I've been particularly exposed to and isn't something anyone I know has been particularly exposed to.

Your assertion sounds fallacious to the point of being the product of watching too many sitcoms/reality shows and taking the proffered stereotype as fact.
 
2012-11-30 02:12:01 PM  

Diogenes: Cythraul: Diogenes: My great grandfather was in the Klan.

I think I'll wear a Klan robe today. 'Cause, you know, heritage.

Yours too?

Oh yeah. Not that it makes it any better, but this was in NJ and they really didn't put the hate on Jews and Blacks much. Their big thing was Catholics.

Took Gram many years before she'd admit that to me. And I did know Pappy. I wonder if she didn't want to ruin what memory I had of him.


The NJ Klan had some interesting ties to the German-American Bund (aka American Nazis):

http://www.njhallofshame.com/NomineesPages/Nominee_NJ_KKK.html

Found this out recently, as friends of mine own property on Lake Aeroflex in Andover, and on that property is a single surviving cabin from Camp Nordland.
 
2012-11-30 02:13:19 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

Its no more offensive than the US flag.


Holocaust Agnostic
Account created: 2012-09-04 23:06:32

mmm, yeah. bye!
 
2012-11-30 02:13:25 PM  

craig328: Khellendros: doubled99: *yawn.
Lighten up Francis. You seem to be stuck in a time period you can't even comprehend.

None of that shiat has anything to do with why people display the rebel flag on their shirt, or earpiece or whatever.

You either don't live in the south, or talk to people who adamant in flying the confederate flag on a regular basis. There is an exceptionally strong insurrectionist and secessionist attitude among most confederate flag flyers that they are morally right, the U.S. is wrong, and their "country" will rise again.

Spend some time in small town Alabama or South Carolina. Chat with them for an hour or two. You'll understand exactly why the fly the rebel flag, and it's not for "old southern culture".

Two problems with that:

1./ I doubt anyone you just met anywhere would consent to speaking to you for two hours about a topic that most folks won't openly discuss just so you can claim that some kind of circumstance exists that doesn't so you can score some kind of imaginary internet debating point years down the road. If you're not from there they treat you politely but you're not their friend or buddy and you won't be privy to a conversation on that topic. Period. Your delusional fantasies not excepting. I can say that because:

2./ I am from there and I've spent way more than "some time" in small southern towns (Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia and old Florida...WVa too but I and they don't count themselves as "south") and I'm pretty clear on why some folk fly a defunct flag. Typically it's about regional pride. I suspect if you were to encounter an actual klanner it might be about racism but for the 30+ years I've lived in the south I've never knowingly encountered one...and I assure you, from the folks my family knows and who their social with these days, if they were about and out in the open about it, I'd have at least have heard of them. I've met and encountered far more folks associated with the mafia in the south than I have ...


Are you high? Nearly every southerner that flies the rebel flag, sticks it on their car, or wears it on their clothes is happy to talk to you about why. At great length. They have little internal consistency as to the reason why, and their historical accuracy is somewhere on the level of Beka textbooks, but they do have a lot to say about it. After living in Virginia for eleven years, spending months of time with family in Georgia, the Carolinas, and living in Oklahoma and Texas for most of the last 20 years, I can tell you from experience that rebel fliers love talking openly about their "culture", and why they fly that flag.
 
2012-11-30 02:17:25 PM  
You cannot love the Confederate flag and viably claim to love America. The two are mutually exclusive. PICK ONE.
 
2012-11-30 02:18:31 PM  
This makes me think that Dariuis Rucker is the most brave man in America since Charlie Pride.
 
2012-11-30 02:18:40 PM  

hdhale: The Confederate Battle Flag was carried by Confederate armies through the Civil War and while you might think that the flag of the losing army shouldn't be a source of pride, there are millions of decedents of many thousands of Confederate soldiers that served their state and their communities proudly that would tell you that you are wrong. They fought well and most gave everything they had.


Replace "Confederate" with "Nazi". Only through Godwin can you understand the idiocy of your comment.
 
2012-11-30 02:21:13 PM  
How dare people* be proud of their heritage!

*people I was taught not to like
 
2012-11-30 02:21:28 PM  

craig328: doyner: Adkins - on a USO tour in Japan - also called for the preservation of America's battlefields and an "honest conversation about the country's history."

Be careful what you ask for, buddy.

You know, it's possible that he may know something about it. I mean, it's obviously an interest to him, he has the means and the time to delve into it. Just as a for instance: there are those who don't have so much an issue with the war the Civil War went so much as they have an issue with the way the post war occupation and Reconstruction went. Most folks running about with the public school version of American history have practically zero clue how bad it got in the south once the war was over.

The war lasted 4 years...the pillaging and plundering lasted for as long as 16 years in some places. It's no coincidence that the poorest states in the country today tend to be those who were under Reconstruction the longest. Imagine how delightful a place like Massachusetts would be if say nearly everything of worth was taken and those doing the taking had the blessing of the government and 10+ years to clean the place out.

/be careful indeed


Sucks to be traitors
 
2012-11-30 02:28:22 PM  

FlashHarry: Holocaust Agnostic: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

Its no more offensive than the US flag.

Holocaust Agnostic
Account created: 2012-09-04 23:06:32

mmm, yeah. bye!


How dare people make new accounts here!!! Anyone who matters already has an account and anyone with an account less than a year old is obviously just a troll.
 
2012-11-30 02:28:31 PM  

Digital Communist: How dare people* be proud of their heritage!

*people I was taught not to like



There's a class on hating white people?

/I'm sure there are white people who can teach us much more than the instructor
 
2012-11-30 02:32:17 PM  

FlashHarry: Holocaust Agnostic: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

Its no more offensive than the US flag.

Holocaust Agnostic
Account created: 2012-09-04 23:06:32

mmm, yeah. bye!


n00b.
 
2012-11-30 02:38:56 PM  
Khellendros Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-30 02:13:25 PM


craig328: Khellendros: doubled99: *yawn.
Lighten up Francis. You seem to be stuck in a time period you can't even comprehend.

None of that shiat has anything to do with why people display the rebel flag on their shirt, or earpiece or whatever.

You either don't live in the south, or talk to people who adamant in flying the confederate flag on a regular basis. There is an exceptionally strong insurrectionist and secessionist attitude among most confederate flag flyers that they are morally right, the U.S. is wrong, and their "country" will rise again.

Spend some time in small town Alabama or South Carolina. Chat with them for an hour or two. You'll understand exactly why the fly the rebel flag, and it's not for "old southern culture".

Two problems with that:

1./ I doubt anyone you just met anywhere would consent to speaking to you for two hours about a topic that most folks won't openly discuss just so you can claim that some kind of circumstance exists that doesn't so you can score some kind of imaginary internet debating point years down the road. If you're not from there they treat you politely but you're not their friend or buddy and you won't be privy to a conversation on that topic. Period. Your delusional fantasies not excepting. I can say that because:

2./ I am from there and I've spent way more than "some time" in small southern towns (Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia and old Florida...WVa too but I and they don't count themselves as "south") and I'm pretty clear on why some folk fly a defunct flag. Typically it's about regional pride. I suspect if you were to encounter an actual klanner it might be about racism but for the 30+ years I've lived in the south I've never knowingly encountered one...and I assure you, from the folks my family knows and who their social with these days, if they were about and out in the open about it, I'd have at least have heard of them. I've met and encountered far more folks associated with the mafia in the south than I have ...

Are you high? Nearly every southerner that flies the rebel flag, sticks it on their car, or wears it on their clothes is happy to talk to you about why. At great length. They have little internal consistency as to the reason why, and their historical accuracy is somewhere on the level of Beka textbooks, but they do have a lot to say about it. After living in Virginia for eleven years, spending months of time with family in Georgia, the Carolinas, and living in Oklahoma and Texas for most of the last 20 years, I can tell you from experience that rebel fliers love talking openly about their "culture", and why they fly that flag.



Just like craig328, I lived for years in the south, and still have relatives there I see every year. Apparently, there is some amazing bizarro dimension that you continuously encounter, rife with irony. Terrible that a completely open minded, non-racist person such as yourself keeps encountering an array of dyed in the wool, 1800's style Confederate slave loving klansmen.

Dude, you're full of shiat.
 
2012-11-30 02:39:34 PM  

mcwehrle: I think you may have misunderstood my intent.


No, I really didn't.

Again, if it's not a big deal to have, then it isn't a big deal not to have. And someone does take it seriously, he does.

So the argument that people just need to "chill out" pretty much falls apart right there. The guy wore it in his ear for the same reason Janet Jackson slipped us a boob on the sly during the Superbowl.

4.bp.blogspot.com

Nuff said.
 
2012-11-30 02:40:06 PM  
I fly a pirate flag in front of my house,what does that mean?
 
2012-11-30 02:41:06 PM  

JK47: hasty ambush: The new standard for freedom of expression is that you can do what you want as long as nobody is offended


Really asshole? Do you see anyone calling for his arrest? Have the police been called to take him to jail so he can be charged with Disturbing the Peace - Offensive Speech?

The whole "offended" line of thought is broken circular logic. You accuse others of wanting to restrain expression when the ultimate goal of that accusation is to prevent people from expressing how offended they are. While you have every right to be an asshole (by wearing Confederate apparel for example) everyone else has a right to react to your actions and express themselves.


Library Director Cathy Hoeth told her staff not to wear "I'm proud to be an American" stickers because they might offend the 200 foreign students at Florida Gulf Coast University in Fort Myers.
 
2012-11-30 02:42:46 PM  

Khellendros: Are you high? Nearly every southerner that flies the rebel flag, sticks it on their car, or wears it on their clothes is happy to talk to you about why. At great length. They have little internal consistency as to the reason why, and their historical accuracy is somewhere on the level of Beka textbooks, but they do have a lot to say about it. After living in Virginia for eleven years, spending months of time with family in Georgia, the Carolinas, and living in Oklahoma and Texas for most of the last 20 years, I can tell you from experience that rebel fliers love talking openly about their "culture", and why they fly that flag.


Not high but it's apparent you're having trouble with the whole "wide brush" approach to making a point. Your entire posit is redolent with suggested self-superior attitude (with references to broad based ignorance in comparison to your more enlightened knowledge base, for instance) and, as such, you appear incapable of anything other than opinion based on bias. Residing in Virginia, Texas and Oklahoma hardly equates to knowing either jack or shiat about the south and visiting relatives in Atlanta and Myrtle Beach wouldn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of authenticity. However, I could be just as guilty as you about conclusions based on assumptions.

What I did say was that I'm from the south, my family was old Florida back when all of the states' population would have fit into the Orange Bowl today. An old relative on my father's side rode with the 1st Florida cavalry and fought at Shiloh. Others lived in coastal North Carolina and lost everything they had. And no, they weren't the local wealthy slave-owner type...they were just regular maritime mercantile who had all their property "commandeered" by the local army commandant for "emergency use" that was promptly sold to a carpetbagger and taken somewhere up north. Point is: I'm from the south, have lived here most of my life and, as opposed to being "high", I do actually know something about what we're discussing. Disagreeing with your broad stereotypical generalizations, surprisingly enough, doesn't require the aid of hallucinogens...although claiming that visiting Grammy's for Christmas makes you an authority on the region might.

Enjoy your opinion. It's yours and it's apparent you can't be swayed from it. Just know it's also as full of shiat as a well used horse stall is all.
 
2012-11-30 02:44:27 PM  

StickyBunBandit


I fly a pirate flag in front of my house,what does that mean?


*looks at name*

*looks at question*

*looks at name again*

You steal sticky buns on the high seas?
 
2012-11-30 02:46:45 PM  
You know why people say there is no difference between a person claiming "Heritage not Hate" while waving the confederate flag, and a person claiming "Heritage not Hate" while waving a Nazi flag?

Because there is no difference.
 
2012-11-30 02:48:51 PM  

BOZ: All of you folks who are saying the Confederate flag is a racist symbol are youthful idiots. It is only in the last 20 or 30 years that is has come to be branded as such by those wanting to stir up shiat. If you don't like that flag, then don't pay attention to it. As far as I know the flag has never hurt anyone. And if you are one of those racists that use the confederate flag to promote your thoughts, well screw you too.


Considering how prominently the confederate flag was used as a symbol during the civil rights era, by those opposing civil rights for blacks, methinks you don't know what you are talking about.

See this post upthread from some handy visual examples:
http://www.fark.com/comments/7460765/81004313#c81004313
 
2012-11-30 02:49:07 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: You cannot love the Confederate flag and viably claim to love America. The two are mutually exclusive. PICK ONE.


Can I fly my State Flag ?

What about people who fly the Pan-African flag? the Mexican flag? Puerto Rico's flag?. The gay Flag?

How are you on the subject of dual citizenship?
 
2012-11-30 02:50:51 PM  

Publikwerks: craig328: doyner: Adkins - on a USO tour in Japan - also called for the preservation of America's battlefields and an "honest conversation about the country's history."

Be careful what you ask for, buddy.

You know, it's possible that he may know something about it. I mean, it's obviously an interest to him, he has the means and the time to delve into it. Just as a for instance: there are those who don't have so much an issue with the war the Civil War went so much as they have an issue with the way the post war occupation and Reconstruction went. Most folks running about with the public school version of American history have practically zero clue how bad it got in the south once the war was over.

The war lasted 4 years...the pillaging and plundering lasted for as long as 16 years in some places. It's no coincidence that the poorest states in the country today tend to be those who were under Reconstruction the longest. Imagine how delightful a place like Massachusetts would be if say nearly everything of worth was taken and those doing the taking had the blessing of the government and 10+ years to clean the place out.

/be careful indeed

Sucks to be traitors


That is does indeed...especially when the acts committed after the war were not the intentions of the president. Booth did the entire south a huge disservice by assassinating Lincoln once the war was entirely lost.

I get that many people revel in their ignorance even when they're unaware of how ignorant they truly are. It's not their fault that a 10-12 year block of history in the southern states (aka "reconstruction") is covered in about 2-3 lines in most public school social studies books. That said, there are a great many sources of information that do describe the utter pillaging of the south after the war. Just like the books didn't used to do more than mention the Trail of Tears until it became PC to do so, discussing Reconstruction will probably never be a PC topic so it will probably remain a rather shameful historic bruise.
 
2012-11-30 02:51:11 PM  
ecx.images-amazon.com 
Greatest country band ever!
 
2012-11-30 02:51:38 PM  
Its so nice of you yankee liberal asses to decide what symbols mean for us.
 
2012-11-30 02:53:30 PM  

doubled99: Just like craig328, I lived for years in the south, and still have relatives there I see every year. Apparently, there is some amazing bizarro dimension that you continuously encounter, rife with irony. Terrible that a completely open minded, non-racist person such as yourself keeps encountering an array of dyed in the wool, 1800's style Confederate slave loving klansmen.

Dude, you're full of shiat.


I don't know where you're getting this klansmen thing from. You've referenced it several times, and I've never made any claim of the type. I have no experience that says they're "slave loving", nor have I said that. What I have said is that southerners that fly the flag will talk about it, quite openly, when they are asked. They defend it fiercely, with a myriad of half true historical facts, and weak cultural arguments. The arguments don't hold any water, are typically factually incorrect, and not defended logically. This isn't isolated to a few people, it's common among those that display it.

What I also said is that the symbol has real historical meaning, and it's not cultural. It's a well-established and documented symbol of a failed insurrection, and not appropriate to fly in the country in which the secession was attempted. It's a legally defined flag of failure and treason. And while it is within their rights to fly it on their private property (a right created and defended by the country they spit on), it deserves ridicule, scorn, and every ounce of shame that can be thrown at it.
 
2012-11-30 02:54:58 PM  
I fully agree that civil war battlefields need to be preserved, but absolutely disagree that the southern side should be portrayed as a noble cause, because it wasn't. The battlefields should be preserved, as a reminder of what happens to a country when traitors try to destroy a country from the inside.
 
2012-11-30 02:55:09 PM  
What exactly is Southern heritage? The South is part of the USA, so why not just say American heritage? I'm from Chicago, my boyfriend is from Manhattan, and I've never heard anyone talk about their "Northern" heritage. I'm an American; I don't define myself by what chunk of the country I'm from. I don't go around calling myself a Midwesterner.
 
2012-11-30 02:56:39 PM  

Gunslinger013: Exactly. It would be very interesting to hear the views of the north on this issue if it had the climate for large plantation style agriculture.

/in Cincinnati


What the north did have was a large industrial sector that needed cheap labor paid pennies a week to work with arm ripping machines of death ..if they hired you of course, which was unlikely if you were a minority. Remember, the Civil War ended in 1865, but equal opportunity employment didn't come around until about 100 years later.
 
2012-11-30 02:59:17 PM  

bobgilbert: I am sad that he is involved in this.

Trace Adkins plays a benefit concert every year for my cousin's special needs school in the Nashville area. Every single year I am amazed at how genuine and kind he is and am always so appreciative of his efforts to raise money and put on an amazing show for free. He stays afterwards, treats the kids and adults with incredible respect and just couldn't possibly be any more of a gentleman.

Bad judgement on the earpiece but I truly believe he is a good man.


I like when I find CSBs like this on Fark.


My high school mascot was a rebel so the confederate flag was school merchandise and we played Dixie at ball games. The school was tiny and had horrible funding, underdogs at everything, so in an odd way it fit. That said, I hate how back home, everyone goes on and on about it being their heritage. In Kentucky. Kentucky wasn't the south. But, whatever.
 
2012-11-30 02:59:52 PM  

craig328: Khellendros: Are you high? Nearly every southerner that flies the rebel flag, sticks it on their car, or wears it on their clothes is happy to talk to you about why. At great length. They have little internal consistency as to the reason why, and their historical accuracy is somewhere on the level of Beka textbooks, but they do have a lot to say about it. After living in Virginia for eleven years, spending months of time with family in Georgia, the Carolinas, and living in Oklahoma and Texas for most of the last 20 years, I can tell you from experience that rebel fliers love talking openly about their "culture", and why they fly that flag.

Not high but it's apparent you're having trouble with the whole "wide brush" approach to making a point. Your entire posit is redolent with suggested self-superior attitude (with references to broad based ignorance in comparison to your more enlightened knowledge base, for instance) and, as such, you appear incapable of anything other than opinion based on bias. Residing in Virginia, Texas and Oklahoma hardly equates to knowing either jack or shiat about the south and visiting relatives in Atlanta and Myrtle Beach wouldn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of authenticity. However, I could be just as guilty as you about conclusions based on assumptions.

What I did say was that I'm from the south, my family was old Florida back when all of the states' population would have fit into the Orange Bowl today. An old relative on my father's side rode with the 1st Florida cavalry and fought at Shiloh. Others lived in coastal North Carolina and lost everything they had. And no, they weren't the local wealthy slave-owner type...they were just regular maritime mercantile who had all their property "commandeered" by the local army commandant for "emergency use" that was promptly sold to a carpetbagger and taken somewhere up north. Point is: I'm from the south, have lived here most of my life and, as opposed to being "high", I do actua ...


You history here is irrelevant. I used locations only to reference the large number of people I regularly encounter flying the Confederate flag. The number is quite large. And when confronted, asked, or challenged about it, nearly ever one defends it with religious ferocity. And they'll do so for as long as you'll speak with them. You may not have experienced this, as you either agree with them (so the conversation never comes up), or you're steeped in it far enough that you're numb to the experience.

Call me full of shiat all you want, but it's a reality.
 
2012-11-30 03:02:01 PM  

Coco LaFemme: What exactly is Southern heritage? The South is part of the USA, so why not just say American heritage? I'm from Chicago, my boyfriend is from Manhattan, and I've never heard anyone talk about their "Northern" heritage. I'm an American; I don't define myself by what chunk of the country I'm from. I don't go around calling myself a Midwesterner.


Northern heritage? Child labor and discrimination.

/or something
 
2012-11-30 03:02:13 PM  

tiggis: Its so nice of you yankee liberal asses to decide what symbols mean for us.


Its nicer of you southern pricks to tell us what to be offended by. Black people didn't wake up one day and decide the Confederate flag was racist. If you're angry because people post bad things about you on the internet when you fly it, blame your great-grandfather.
 
2012-11-30 03:03:02 PM  

Digital Communist: How dare people* be proud of their heritage!

*people I was taught not to like


I'm proud of my German heritage. You don't see me flying the Nazi flag, though, because I'm not proud of that particular period in Germany's history. This is a either a distinction lost on the tards who fly the confederate flag, or they are proud of treason and racism that the confederate flag represents.
 
2012-11-30 03:04:43 PM  
If pink cowboy hats infuriated people north of the Mason-Dixon Line, every other person in the South would wear one.
 
2012-11-30 03:06:45 PM  

CheekyMonkey: Digital Communist: How dare people* be proud of their heritage!

*people I was taught not to like

I'm proud of my German heritage. You don't see me flying the Nazi flag, though, because I'm not proud of that particular period in Germany's history. This is a either a distinction lost on the tards who fly the confederate flag, or they are proud of treason and racism that the confederate flag represents.


That or the fact that it gets them more attention than anything else their existence could possibly produce.
 
2012-11-30 03:06:46 PM  

CheekyMonkey: Digital Communist: How dare people* be proud of their heritage!

*people I was taught not to like

I'm proud of my German heritage. You don't see me flying the Nazi flag, though, because I'm not proud of that particular period in Germany's history. This is a either a distinction lost on the tards who fly the confederate flag, or they are proud of treason and racism that the confederate flag represents.


What treasonous slave-owners might look like:

americansforprosperity.org
 
2012-11-30 03:08:10 PM  
Link

Figured someone should post this to make up for Trace Adkins
 
2012-11-30 03:08:40 PM  
What I also said is that the symbol has real historical meaning, and it's not cultural. It's a well-established and documented symbol of a failed insurrection, and not appropriate to fly in the country in which the secession was attempted. It's a legally defined flag of failure and treason. And while it is within their rights to fly it on their private property (a right created and defended by the country they spit on), it deserves ridicule, scorn, and every ounce of shame that can be thrown at it.

Some people feel offended by it, so it's offensive.
The ones who fly it feel it means something different. So it does. For them.

The swastika once meant something completely different. Symbols change with perception.
 
2012-11-30 03:08:52 PM  

Khellendros: craig328: Khellendros: Are you high? Nearly every southerner that flies the rebel flag, sticks it on their car, or wears it on their clothes is happy to talk to you about why. At great length. They have little internal consistency as to the reason why, and their historical accuracy is somewhere on the level of Beka textbooks, but they do have a lot to say about it. After living in Virginia for eleven years, spending months of time with family in Georgia, the Carolinas, and living in Oklahoma and Texas for most of the last 20 years, I can tell you from experience that rebel fliers love talking openly about their "culture", and why they fly that flag.

Not high but it's apparent you're having trouble with the whole "wide brush" approach to making a point. Your entire posit is redolent with suggested self-superior attitude (with references to broad based ignorance in comparison to your more enlightened knowledge base, for instance) and, as such, you appear incapable of anything other than opinion based on bias. Residing in Virginia, Texas and Oklahoma hardly equates to knowing either jack or shiat about the south and visiting relatives in Atlanta and Myrtle Beach wouldn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of authenticity. However, I could be just as guilty as you about conclusions based on assumptions.

What I did say was that I'm from the south, my family was old Florida back when all of the states' population would have fit into the Orange Bowl today. An old relative on my father's side rode with the 1st Florida cavalry and fought at Shiloh. Others lived in coastal North Carolina and lost everything they had. And no, they weren't the local wealthy slave-owner type...they were just regular maritime mercantile who had all their property "commandeered" by the local army commandant for "emergency use" that was promptly sold to a carpetbagger and taken somewhere up north. Point is: I'm from the south, have lived here most of my life and, as opposed to being "high", I do ac ...


Internet tough guy patrolling the South for Confederate flag bearers. Sounds legit.
 
2012-11-30 03:09:33 PM  

hasty ambush: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: You cannot love the Confederate flag and viably claim to love America. The two are mutually exclusive. PICK ONE.

Can I fly my State Flag ?

What about people who fly the Pan-African flag? the Mexican flag? Puerto Rico's flag?. The gay Flag?

How are you on the subject of dual citizenship?


Your state is a subset of the USA, Mexico is an ally of the the USA, and Puerto Rico is a subset of the USA. The CSA was at war with the USA for pretty much all of it's existence. Therein lies the difference.
 
2012-11-30 03:11:02 PM  

hdhale: Slavery was the primary issue under the States' Rights umbrella, but not the only issue. People who didn't own slaves nor work for people who did were concerned about the reach of the Federal government into local affairs, trade and tariffs, and the like. It was Lincoln that made the war all about slavery and the national narrative followed that line after the war.


The biggest overreach of federal power against states rights prior to the Civil War was the Fugitive Slave Act.
 
2012-11-30 03:11:39 PM  

Khellendros: You history here is irrelevant. I used locations only to reference the large number of people I regularly encounter flying the Confederate flag. The number is quite large. And when confronted, asked, or challenged about it, nearly ever one defends it with religious ferocity. And they'll do so for as long as you'll speak with them. You may not have experienced this, as you either agree with them (so the conversation never comes up), or you're steeped in it far enough that you're numb to the experience.

Call me full of shiat all you want, but it's a reality.i>
Internet tough guy patrolling the South for Confederate flag bearers. Sounds legit.

 
2012-11-30 03:12:22 PM  

Coco LaFemme: What exactly is Southern heritage? The South is part of the USA, so why not just say American heritage? I'm from Chicago, my boyfriend is from Manhattan, and I've never heard anyone talk about their "Northern" heritage. I'm an American; I don't define myself by what chunk of the country I'm from. I don't go around calling myself a Midwesterner.


I would say that Southern Heritage refers to a region. Where other parts of the country are more inclined to be more localized ie, Boston, Jersey, New England, buroughs of New York all have there own culture some derived from their geographic heritage.
 
2012-11-30 03:13:37 PM  

Coco LaFemme: What exactly is Southern heritage? The South is part of the USA, so why not just say American heritage? I'm from Chicago, my boyfriend is from Manhattan, and I've never heard anyone talk about their "Northern" heritage. I'm an American; I don't define myself by what chunk of the country I'm from. I don't go around calling myself a Midwesterner.


I actually disagree with that. I consider myself more a New Yorker than an American; if only for the fact that America is so damn diverse geographically and culturally that I have far more in common with someone from, say, Brooklyn than I will from someone from Salt Lake City or rural Kansas.

I think it is far more of an identifier.

Although you'd think if say, someone was proud to be, say, from Alabama, they'd just fly the Alabama flag.
 
2012-11-30 03:15:03 PM  

TheHappTroll: WorldCitizen: vernonFL: Yet we have no problems with Bayer aspirin, Porsche, Mitsubishi or Hugo Boss.

Is anyone claiming to be bothered by any companies based in the former Confederacy?

"former Confederacy?"

We currently exist under the occupation of The United States inc, our culture, our customs, our heritage and most importantly, our Constitution, are alive and unconquered awaiting the day when freedom loving Americans awaken to once again take up the banner of truth and regain our sovereignty.


The best part of that is the copyright notice at the bottom, which is protected by US Law.
 
2012-11-30 03:15:09 PM  

Doom MD: Internet tough guy patrolling the South for Confederate flag bearers. Sounds legit.


Nice exaggeration. I don't "patrol", but I do ask about it when I see it. And how did this turn into an Internet Toughguy discussion? Debating politics is suddenly an ITG issue? WTF? Do you not discuss politics, culture, or academic subjects with people outside of your immediate social circle?
 
2012-11-30 03:15:56 PM  

jshine: kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.

Isn't the US as a whole based on a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection? Our flag should be:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x400]


The irony is that flag supports the American notion that they were not citizens in the eyes of British law.

The flag of the United Kingdom is made up of component parts of the flags of England, Scotland, and Ireland. There is no American component to the Union Jack.
 
2012-11-30 03:16:11 PM  

Lollipop165: Coco LaFemme: What exactly is Southern heritage? The South is part of the USA, so why not just say American heritage? I'm from Chicago, my boyfriend is from Manhattan, and I've never heard anyone talk about their "Northern" heritage. I'm an American; I don't define myself by what chunk of the country I'm from. I don't go around calling myself a Midwesterner.

I actually disagree with that. I consider myself more a New Yorker than an American; if only for the fact that America is so damn diverse geographically and culturally that I have far more in common with someone from, say, Brooklyn than I will from someone from Salt Lake City or rural Kansas.

I think it is far more of an identifier.

Although you'd think if say, someone was proud to be, say, from Alabama, they'd just fly the Alabama flag.


Its also a matter of distance... When I'm out of the country, I'm just an American. When I'm in the US, I'm a Minnesotan or a Midwesterner. In Minnesota I identify by city. Etc., etc.

If I happen to be in Australia and mention my home town (or possibly even my home state), nobody will have heard of it, so its a useless identification.
 
2012-11-30 03:17:25 PM  

jshine: CheekyMonkey: Digital Communist: How dare people* be proud of their heritage!

*people I was taught not to like

I'm proud of my German heritage. You don't see me flying the Nazi flag, though, because I'm not proud of that particular period in Germany's history. This is a either a distinction lost on the tards who fly the confederate flag, or they are proud of treason and racism that the confederate flag represents.

What treasonous slave-owners might look like:

[americansforprosperity.org image 600x300]


It isn't treason if you win, but yes, I won't deny that this country was founded by a bunch of rich, white slave-owners.
 
2012-11-30 03:18:16 PM  

This text is now purple: jshine: kronicfeld: The fact that it is the flag of a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection should be enough to condemn it.

Isn't the US as a whole based on a treasonous, secessionist armed insurrection? Our flag should be:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x400]

The irony is that flag supports the American notion that they were not citizens in the eyes of British law.

The flag of the United Kingdom is made up of component parts of the flags of England, Scotland, and Ireland. There is no American component to the Union Jack.


Yes, yes, it was a colony, but Britain certainly considered the colonists to be subjects.
 
2012-11-30 03:19:31 PM  
Khellendros Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-30 03:15:09 PM


Doom MD: Internet tough guy patrolling the South for Confederate flag bearers. Sounds legit.

Nice exaggeration. I don't "patrol", but I do ask about it when I see it. And how did this turn into an Internet Toughguy discussion? Debating politics is suddenly an ITG issue? WTF? Do you not discuss politics, culture, or academic subjects with people outside of your immediate social circle?


It's a common accusation here from pathetic little farks when they're desperate for something to say. When you're a big sissy, everyone seems like a "tough guy" in comparison.
 
2012-11-30 03:20:50 PM  
I hate country music. But let's be honest. LA and NYC style pop music isn't exactly much better.

Most of the country isn't a cultural and intellectual power houses so being smug based on geographical musical tastes is really grasping for straws.
 
2012-11-30 03:21:12 PM  

StickyBunBandit: I fly a pirate flag in front of my house,what does that mean?


Contributing to Global Warming?
 
2012-11-30 03:25:39 PM  

DeathCipris: StickyBunBandit: I fly a pirate flag in front of my house,what does that mean?

Contributing to Global Warming?


I think you've got that backwards.
 
2012-11-30 03:26:06 PM  
All these posts.

INTENT is the critical componant of offensive symbol usage. If there is no intent to offend, then the symbol usage is not offensive. If a history book on the evils of slavery has a confederate flag on it, no one would consider that to be offensive, because that is clearly not the intent. No one accuses the History channel of being racist or anti-semetic no matter how many times they show swastikas and Nazi symbols. Becasue that is clearly not the intent.

Certainly, people can choose to TAKE offense when they see a symbol. But that is on them, and no one else is responsible for that.

Use of symbols is an inherently meaningful act. The user of the symbol is the one who gets to decide what they mean when they use that symbol.
 
2012-11-30 03:27:31 PM  

Khellendros: Doom MD: Internet tough guy patrolling the South for Confederate flag bearers. Sounds legit.

Nice exaggeration. I don't "patrol", but I do ask about it when I see it. And how did this turn into an Internet Toughguy discussion? Debating politics is suddenly an ITG issue? WTF? Do you not discuss politics, culture, or academic subjects with people outside of your immediate social circle?


Your musings over your extensive experience "challenging" people for brandishing the Confederate flag alongside an implicit condescending tone makes it apparent why such people would get defensive with you.
 
2012-11-30 03:27:51 PM  

doubled99: What I also said is that the symbol has real historical meaning, and it's not cultural. It's a well-established and documented symbol of a failed insurrection, and not appropriate to fly in the country in which the secession was attempted. It's a legally defined flag of failure and treason. And while it is within their rights to fly it on their private property (a right created and defended by the country they spit on), it deserves ridicule, scorn, and every ounce of shame that can be thrown at it.

Some people feel offended by it, so it's offensive.
The ones who fly it feel it means something different. So it does. For them.

The swastika once meant something completely different. Symbols change with perception.


While that's true, the latest meaning requires something new - a global event, a shift in thought, or a new social movement to change it. The Confederate flag has remained as it was (historically and socially) since the late 1800s. The swastika didn't just one day become something new. The Third Reich turned it into something else and used it in war and genocide. The rebel flag is still based on the same events, the same ideas, and the same regional politics and people as when it was used as a battle standard and an official symbol of the Confederate States of America. I've seen nothing - including in the philosophies used to defend it today - that shows a shift in what it represents. A vague pseudo-cultural wash, perhaps, but nothing of substance. It's still the flag of secessionists.
 
2012-11-30 03:31:28 PM  

TheHappTroll: DeathCipris: StickyBunBandit: I fly a pirate flag in front of my house,what does that mean?

Contributing to Global Warming?

I think you've got that backwards.


Bah!
assets.diylol.com
 
2012-11-30 03:31:40 PM  

Doom MD: Khellendros: Doom MD: Internet tough guy patrolling the South for Confederate flag bearers. Sounds legit.

Nice exaggeration. I don't "patrol", but I do ask about it when I see it. And how did this turn into an Internet Toughguy discussion? Debating politics is suddenly an ITG issue? WTF? Do you not discuss politics, culture, or academic subjects with people outside of your immediate social circle?

Your musings over your extensive experience "challenging" people for brandishing the Confederate flag alongside an implicit condescending tone makes it apparent why such people would get defensive with you.


Tone is inferred by the reader. That comes from you, not me.

And questioning or challenging people for flying that flag and engaging in strong political and historical debates isn't being an ITG. It's being an educated adult that challenges things and asks others to defend their assertions. Ignorance isn't a virtue.
 
2012-11-30 03:37:29 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: All these posts.

INTENT is the critical componant of offensive symbol usage. If there is no intent to offend, then the symbol usage is not offensive. If a history book on the evils of slavery has a confederate flag on it, no one would consider that to be offensive, because that is clearly not the intent. No one accuses the History channel of being racist or anti-semetic no matter how many times they show swastikas and Nazi symbols. Becasue that is clearly not the intent.

Certainly, people can choose to TAKE offense when they see a symbol. But that is on them, and no one else is responsible for that.

Use of symbols is an inherently meaningful act. The user of the symbol is the one who gets to decide what they mean when they use that symbol.


The Coalition for Reason is sparse in this thread. It is all about intent.

Time for another Good Idea, Bad Idea...
Good Idea: Hanging a NSDAP Flag in your museum exhibit on the dictators of WWII.
Bad Idea: Hanging a NSDAP Flag behind you during a speech.
 
2012-11-30 03:38:49 PM  

SkunkWerks: mcwehrle: I think you may have misunderstood my intent.

No, I really didn't.

Again, if it's not a big deal to have, then it isn't a big deal not to have. And someone does take it seriously, he does.

So the argument that people just need to "chill out" pretty much falls apart right there. The guy wore it in his ear for the same reason Janet Jackson slipped us a boob on the sly during the Superbowl.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 600x431]

Nuff said.


cool. have a nice day.
 
2012-11-30 03:38:57 PM  

jshine: When I'm out of the country, I'm just an American. When I'm in the US, I'm a Minnesotan or a Midwesterner. In Minnesota I identify by city. Etc., etc.


Unless you are a Texan, of course. When travelling abroad, Texans still self-identify as Texans.

And for whatever reason, most people internationally know what that is.

/yes, yes, even before GW
 
2012-11-30 03:39:59 PM  

Khellendros: Doom MD: Khellendros: Doom MD: Internet tough guy patrolling the South for Confederate flag bearers. Sounds legit.

Nice exaggeration. I don't "patrol", but I do ask about it when I see it. And how did this turn into an Internet Toughguy discussion? Debating politics is suddenly an ITG issue? WTF? Do you not discuss politics, culture, or academic subjects with people outside of your immediate social circle?

Your musings over your extensive experience "challenging" people for brandishing the Confederate flag alongside an implicit condescending tone makes it apparent why such people would get defensive with you.

Tone is inferred by the reader. That comes from you, not me.

And questioning or challenging people for flying that flag and engaging in strong political and historical debates isn't being an ITG. It's being an educated adult that challenges things and asks others to defend their assertions. Ignorance isn't a virtue.


You're right, there's absolutely no condescension in trying to authoritively define the meaning of something pertaining to a large swath of people that you've made great strides in setting yourself apart from.
 
2012-11-30 03:40:50 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: jshine: When I'm out of the country, I'm just an American. When I'm in the US, I'm a Minnesotan or a Midwesterner. In Minnesota I identify by city. Etc., etc.

Unless you are a Texan, of course. When travelling abroad, Texans still self-identify as Texans.

And for whatever reason, most people internationally know what that is.

/yes, yes, even before GW


Not all of us do. But yes, sadly, it's very common.
 
2012-11-30 03:41:27 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: jshine: When I'm out of the country, I'm just an American. When I'm in the US, I'm a Minnesotan or a Midwesterner. In Minnesota I identify by city. Etc., etc.

Unless you are a Texan, of course. When travelling abroad, Texans still self-identify as Texans.

And for whatever reason, most people internationally know what that is.

/yes, yes, even before GW


When Im in the US, I'm an American. When I'm traveling abroad, I'm Canadian.
 
2012-11-30 03:41:34 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: jshine: When I'm out of the country, I'm just an American. When I'm in the US, I'm a Minnesotan or a Midwesterner. In Minnesota I identify by city. Etc., etc.

Unless you are a Texan, of course. When travelling abroad, Texans still self-identify as Texans.

And for whatever reason, most people internationally know what that is.

/yes, yes, even before GW


I think it is a "former largest state in America" thing combined with old western movies. Even foreigners know who John Wayne and Clint Eastwood are.
 
2012-11-30 03:46:03 PM  

Doom MD: You're right, there's absolutely no condescension in trying to authoritively define the meaning of something pertaining to a large swath of people that you've made great strides in setting yourself apart from.


I don't need to define it. History did that pretty well. A small, but vocal group is trying to revise that definition but maintain the rebellious history, and constantly display the symbol a treasonous act that nearly tore the country apart. That's not condescension. That's pointing out the obvious.
 
2012-11-30 03:46:53 PM  

Doom MD: Khellendros: craig328: Khellendros: Are you high? Nearly every southerner that flies the rebel flag, sticks it on their car, or wears it on their clothes is happy to talk to you about why. At great length. They have little internal consistency as to the reason why, and their historical accuracy is somewhere on the level of Beka textbooks, but they do have a lot to say about it. After living in Virginia for eleven years, spending months of time with family in Georgia, the Carolinas, and living in Oklahoma and Texas for most of the last 20 years, I can tell you from experience that rebel fliers love talking openly about their "culture", and why they fly that flag.

Not high but it's apparent you're having trouble with the whole "wide brush" approach to making a point. Your entire posit is redolent with suggested self-superior attitude (with references to broad based ignorance in comparison to your more enlightened knowledge base, for instance) and, as such, you appear incapable of anything other than opinion based on bias. Residing in Virginia, Texas and Oklahoma hardly equates to knowing either jack or shiat about the south and visiting relatives in Atlanta and Myrtle Beach wouldn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of authenticity. However, I could be just as guilty as you about conclusions based on assumptions.

What I did say was that I'm from the south, my family was old Florida back when all of the states' population would have fit into the Orange Bowl today. An old relative on my father's side rode with the 1st Florida cavalry and fought at Shiloh. Others lived in coastal North Carolina and lost everything they had. And no, they weren't the local wealthy slave-owner type...they were just regular maritime mercantile who had all their property "commandeered" by the local army commandant for "emergency use" that was promptly sold to a carpetbagger and taken somewhere up north. Point is: I'm from the south, have lived here most of my life and, as opposed to being "high", I do ac ...

Internet tough guy patrolling the South for Confederate flag bearers. Sounds legit.


Pretty much. This is why I've pretty much quit posting on Fark because of the sheer number of claims like his.

I mean, from his description I'm picturing Khellendros setting forth on his journey of policing complete strangers and, upon seeing a confederate flag, immediately engaging them in what he hopes passes as polite and interested conversation (which, he's sure, they're entirely too dull to recognize as anything else) and commence quizzing the helpless simple yokel about the symbol he displays and why. As though he's conducting a survey or something. Naturally, the hapless denizen whose path Khellendros has graciously and benevolently crossed has nothing better to do with their day than to entertain this clearly sophisticated and superior being and dumbly answer his witty and incisive inquests. Khellendros then proceeds to ask such benign and innocent questions (to a complete stranger mind you) like "why do you wear that symbol" and they, naturally, respond with "yee haw! The South will rise ag'in!" thus confirming validating Khellendros' original theory and cementing his supreme and unassailable opinions.

Either that or he's an imbecile who thinks that everyone on the internet to whom he makes these ridiculous claims is more gullible and stupid than he and they will surely relent in their erroneous and ill-considered experience and grant his fallacies as fact. Because hey, when engaging in thrilling matches of verbal derring-do on the intarwebz tubez, that's the way things always turn out in Khellendros' mind.

It's cute as all get out too, bless his heart.
 
2012-11-30 03:47:46 PM  
Khellendros:: bullshiat

You're a lying liar, you lying douchebag.
 
2012-11-30 03:48:38 PM  

ChuDogg: When Im in the US, I'm an American. When I'm traveling abroad, I'm Canadian.


I usually save that excuse for when I do something particularly idiotic or embarrassing.
 
2012-11-30 03:51:05 PM  

Khellendros: doubled99: What I also said is that the symbol has real historical meaning, and it's not cultural. It's a well-established and documented symbol of a failed insurrection, and not appropriate to fly in the country in which the secession was attempted. It's a legally defined flag of failure and treason. And while it is within their rights to fly it on their private property (a right created and defended by the country they spit on), it deserves ridicule, scorn, and every ounce of shame that can be thrown at it.

Some people feel offended by it, so it's offensive.
The ones who fly it feel it means something different. So it does. For them.

The swastika once meant something completely different. Symbols change with perception.

While that's true, the latest meaning requires something new - a global event, a shift in thought, or a new social movement to change it. The Confederate flag has remained as it was (historically and socially) since the late 1800s. The swastika didn't just one day become something new. The Third Reich turned it into something else and used it in war and genocide. The rebel flag is still based on the same events, the same ideas, and the same regional politics and people as when it was used as a battle standard and an official symbol of the Confederate States of America. I've seen nothing - including in the philosophies used to defend it today - that shows a shift in what it represents. A vague pseudo-cultural wash, perhaps, but nothing of substance. It's still the flag of secessionists.


I would disagree. The rebirth of the KKK in the 1920s through the 50s strongly indentified with America and used the American flag extensively as their symbol. The rebirth was also centered heavily in Illinois and other midwest and even Northeast states in addition to the South.

It wasn't until the modern incarnation of the KKK as a bizarre collection of inbred rednecks (remember the original was the mostly educated business and government leaders) in the 80s and 90s that the KKK became more of a neo-seccessionist movement as use the confederate flag more extensively as their symbol of choice. By that time, the Dukes of Hazard and other cultural Southern use of the confederate flag was already wide spread throughout the South and north alike and even into foreign countries like europe.

So if you look in to it more I think you would find a more non-linear progression of the flag from the Civil War to modern usage.

That said, the South still sucks.
 
2012-11-30 03:51:24 PM  

GanjSmokr: How dare people make new accounts here!!! Anyone who matters already has an account and anyone with an account less than a year old is obviously just a troll.


his name is "holocaust agnostic" and his Boobies was "Its no more offensive than the US flag." that smells like troll to me.
 
2012-11-30 03:55:44 PM  

FlashHarry: Boobies was "Its no more offensive than the US flag." that smells like troll to me.


Well, the US flag is the symbol of a country that was founded through violence by treasonous slave-owners with slavery written into its Constitution. There is a valid point there.
 
2012-11-30 03:56:13 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Texans still self-identify as Texans.


The fark I do.
 
2012-11-30 03:58:32 PM  

FlashHarry: GanjSmokr: How dare people make new accounts here!!! Anyone who matters already has an account and anyone with an account less than a year old is obviously just a troll.

his name is "holocaust agnostic" and his Boobies was "Its no more offensive than the US flag." that smells like troll to me.


So if you're just going by their name and the content of their post as you are implying here, why add the date the account was created on that post? I assumed you were trying to say that the date the account was created actually meant something to you here. My apologies if you just put it in there for fun, but I don't think that's why you did it.
 
2012-11-30 03:58:55 PM  

craig328: I mean, from his description I'm picturing Khellendros setting forth on his journey of policing complete strangers and, upon seeing a confederate flag, immediately engaging them in what he hopes passes as polite and interested conversation (which, he's sure, they're entirely too dull to recognize as anything else) and commence quizzing the helpless simple yokel about the symbol he displays and why. As though he's conducting a survey or something. Naturally, the hapless denizen whose path Khellendros has graciously and benevolently crossed has nothing better to do with their day than to entertain this clearly sophisticated and superior being and dumbly answer his witty and incisive inquests. Khellendros then proceeds to ask such benign and innocent questions (to a complete stranger mind you) like "why do you wear that symbol" and they, naturally, respond with "yee haw! The South will rise ag'in!" thus confirming validating Khellendros' original theory and cementing his supreme and unassailable opinions.


Note how every part of that came from your exaggeration and self-created impressions, and not from my words. Read what I wrote in all of those posts above. Think about it as a rational human being, then consider if you want to respond.

I engage people in debate often. I live around lots of people who display the rebel flag, and have most of my life. I've had many, many conversations, debate, arguments, and challenging discussions with these people (most of whom I didn't know beforehand) about that flag, and why they fly it. The results have been similar in most cases, sadly. I would estimate I've had somewhere between 25 and 50 of these discussions that lasted at least half an hour or more. The arguments they use are poorly researched, incomplete, and often based on incorrect facts. But they do like to defend it at length.

Everything else you wrote came from your little mind. Exaggerations, straw men, and outright bullshiat. Is your world that small? Or did you just realize how silly your words are, and now you have to defend them with bluster and intellectual vomit?
 
2012-11-30 04:00:24 PM  

armypilot: Khellendros:: bullshiat

You're a lying liar, you lying douchebag.


I'm glad you had something useful and fulfilling to add to the conversation. Anything else? Perhaps an opinion on Kafka?
 
2012-11-30 04:01:24 PM  

FlashHarry: Holocaust Agnostic: FlashHarry: "southern heritage," my ass. it's a symbol of slavery and treason, nothing more.

Its no more offensive than the US flag.

Holocaust Agnostic
Account created: 2012-09-04 23:06:32

mmm, yeah. bye!


I had to update. my old handle was too offensive.
 
2012-11-30 04:03:50 PM  

Khellendros: doubled99: What I also said is that the symbol has real historical meaning, and it's not cultural. It's a well-established and documented symbol of a failed insurrection, and not appropriate to fly in the country in which the secession was attempted. It's a legally defined flag of failure and treason. And while it is within their rights to fly it on their private property (a right created and defended by the country they spit on), it deserves ridicule, scorn, and every ounce of shame that can be thrown at it.

Some people feel offended by it, so it's offensive.
The ones who fly it feel it means something different. So it does. For them.

The swastika once meant something completely different. Symbols change with perception.

While that's true, the latest meaning requires something new - a global event, a shift in thought, or a new social movement to change it. The Confederate flag has remained as it was (historically and socially) since the late 1800s. The swastika didn't just one day become something new. The Third Reich turned it into something else and used it in war and genocide. The rebel flag is still based on the same events, the same ideas, and the same regional politics and people as when it was used as a battle standard and an official symbol of the Confederate States of America. I've seen nothing - including in the philosophies used to defend it today - that shows a shift in what it represents. A vague pseudo-cultural wash, perhaps, but nothing of substance. It's still the flag of secessionists.


I would submit that the most recent shift for the confederate flag occurred in the 1950s and 1960s, when it was adopted as a symbol by anti-civil-rights protesters. As such, it took on a more overtly racist tone than it had in the late 1800s, when it was a symbol of secession.
 
2012-11-30 04:07:00 PM  

jshine: FlashHarry: Boobies was "Its no more offensive than the US flag." that smells like troll to me.

Well, the US flag is the symbol of a country that was founded through violence by treasonous slave-owners with slavery written into its Constitution. There is a valid point there.


You know what would be refreshing in a debate like this? Encountering someone who knew WHY slavery was written into the Constitution at the time.

I bet it had nothing to do with how the government acquired revenue and that minus Virginia, Georgia, North and South Carolina that the rebellion had exactly zero chance of success and exceptionally little funding. It's entirely coincidental that the post revolution government acquired revenue pretty much solely from import and export duties and tariffs and that the products that generated such monies were produced in those states (namely cotton, jute, tobacco, rice, and indigo) and that such production was entirely dependent upon a labor force that was indentured. Or that while the south was pretty much hard wired to slavery to provide a labor force, the north went with industrialism where "company store", wage slavery and exploitation of Irish, Italians, Germans and pretty much every other immigrant was a-ok...because they weren't slaves and all.

Ah well. This is Fark. Not exactly the wellspring of informed discourse. May as well wish for a pony while we're at it.
 
2012-11-30 04:07:10 PM  

Khellendros: craig328: I mean, from his description I'm picturing Khellendros setting forth on his journey of policing complete strangers and, upon seeing a confederate flag, immediately engaging them in what he hopes passes as polite and interested conversation (which, he's sure, they're entirely too dull to recognize as anything else) and commence quizzing the helpless simple yokel about the symbol he displays and why. As though he's conducting a survey or something. Naturally, the hapless denizen whose path Khellendros has graciously and benevolently crossed has nothing better to do with their day than to entertain this clearly sophisticated and superior being and dumbly answer his witty and incisive inquests. Khellendros then proceeds to ask such benign and innocent questions (to a complete stranger mind you) like "why do you wear that symbol" and they, naturally, respond with "yee haw! The South will rise ag'in!" thus confirming validating Khellendros' original theory and cementing his supreme and unassailable opinions.

Note how every part of that came from your exaggeration and self-created impressions, and not from my words. Read what I wrote in all of those posts above. Think about it as a rational human being, then consider if you want to respond.

I engage people in debate often. I live around lots of people who display the rebel flag, and have most of my life. I've had many, many conversations, debate, arguments, and challenging discussions with these people (most of whom I didn't know beforehand) about that flag, and why they fly it. The results have been similar in most cases, sadly. I would estimate I've had somewhere between 25 and 50 of these discussions that lasted at least half an hour or more. The arguments they use are poorly researched, incomplete, and often based on incorrect facts. But they do like to defend it at length.

Everything else you wrote came from your little mind. Exaggerations, straw men, and outright bullshiat. Is your world that small? Or d ...


I'd throw a sheet over my head and shake a noose around if it'd get you to stop. You sound absolutely exhausting to have to deal with.
 
2012-11-30 04:07:31 PM  

Khellendros: craig328: Khellendros: Are you high? Nearly every southerner that flies the rebel flag, sticks it on their car, or wears it on their clothes is happy to talk to you about why. At great length. They have little internal consistency as to the reason why, and their historical accuracy is somewhere on the level of Beka textbooks, but they do have a lot to say about it. After living in Virginia for eleven years, spending months of time with family in Georgia, the Carolinas, and living in Oklahoma and Texas for most of the last 20 years, I can tell you from experience that rebel fliers love talking openly about their "culture", and why they fly that flag.

Not high but it's apparent you're having trouble with the whole "wide brush" approach to making a point. Your entire posit is redolent with suggested self-superior attitude (with references to broad based ignorance in comparison to your more enlightened knowledge base, for instance) and, as such, you appear incapable of anything other than opinion based on bias. Residing in Virginia, Texas and Oklahoma hardly equates to knowing either jack or shiat about the south and visiting relatives in Atlanta and Myrtle Beach wouldn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of authenticity. However, I could be just as guilty as you about conclusions based on assumptions.

What I did say was that I'm from the south, my family was old Florida back when all of the states' population would have fit into the Orange Bowl today. An old relative on my father's side rode with the 1st Florida cavalry and fought at Shiloh. Others lived in coastal North Carolina and lost everything they had. And no, they weren't the local wealthy slave-owner type...they were just regular maritime mercantile who had all their property "commandeered" by the local army commandant for "emergency use" that was promptly sold to a carpetbagger and taken somewhere up north. Point is: I'm from the south, have lived here most of my life and, as opposed to being "high", ...


Self righteous douche, I don't own a confederate flag but i think i'm going to get one just because it appears to illuminate people like you. Kinda like jizz under a black light.