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(ZDNet)   If you've ever wanted to pay $1000 for a tablet with a battery life of four hours, do we have good news for you   (zdnet.com) divider line 201
    More: Fail, pro, How Microsoft, John Wiley & Sons  
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10775 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Nov 2012 at 8:59 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-30 04:19:00 PM  

ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.


Because some people have really creepy relationships with technology companies and react as violently to any perceived competitor in the market as if somebody were threatening their spouse.

It's weird.
 
2012-11-30 04:55:49 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.

Because some people have really creepy relationships with technology companies and react as violently to any perceived competitor in the market as if somebody were threatening their spouse.

It's weird.


I've often wondered if people are like this with other manufactured goods. Are there threads full of flamewars between Skil users and DeWalt users? Do Hoover owners think Dyson owners are inferior people? If your choice of brand defines you as a person to the point that you feel the need to hurl insults and slights at others who chose differently it's time to take a step back and reevaluate your life a little bit because frankly, that's pretty damn pathetic.
 
2012-11-30 04:55:54 PM  
"If you've ever wanted to pay $1000 for a tablet with a battery life of four hours and a completely sucky OS, die die die Windows, die die die in a fire, god I hate you so much, do we have good news for you"

Fixed that for you subby
 
2012-11-30 05:03:04 PM  

BullBearMS: At that price, you're not competing against an iPad. You're competing against a Macbook Air with an eight hour battery life

Dude Apple's own webpage don't even say that unless you get the bigger 13" model
 
2012-11-30 05:19:02 PM  

ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.


Because the Surface is a tablet and the Surface Pro should be the Pro version of the Surface? You can't really blame consumers that much. It's pretty much what the deserve for naming their product after form factor rather than role. Imagine if Apple'd named the iPad the iPod XL. "Why doesn't this fit with my jogging armband?! This is the stupidest design for an MP3 player..."
 
2012-11-30 05:19:35 PM  

ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.


Because it shares its branding and industrial design with a sister device that IS a tablet?
 
2012-11-30 05:20:55 PM  

ProfessorOhki: The entire "RT" branding is a failure. They should have given the Pro and the RT completely different names and then just called them "Windows 8" and something else, like "Metro" (I know it's just the UI). Then you could advertise your ultrabook/tablet line as Windows 8 (of which Metro app support would be a selling point) and your regular tablet/phone line as just Metro w/ no mention of Windows because that's going to confuse the crap out of most people.

"But this box says 'for Windows 7' why can't I run it on my Windows 8 tablet!? 8 is more than 7!!!"


If it came in a box, you're not going to be able to run it on either Surface.
 
2012-11-30 05:33:35 PM  

ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.


I think the Surface Pro detractors understand that. There are already excellent tablets on the market that are considerably cheaper and have better battery life.

IMO, Microsoft hasn't made a compelling case for why someone needs a tablet that runs Office. Aside from a few niche uses, what makes a Surface Pro better than a similarly-priced ultrabook or Macbook Air?
 
2012-11-30 05:39:08 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: IMO, Microsoft hasn't made a compelling case for why someone needs a tablet that runs Office.


Rather they haven't made an argument why one would need a tablet like this to run Office. Would be far better to make Office work on existing tablets, than to try to get people to shell out a ton of money for a new piece of hardware just to use Office or what other app you may have in mind.
 
2012-11-30 05:40:34 PM  

ongbok: It is a laptop with a tablet form factor.


So, it's a tablet.
 
2012-11-30 05:55:40 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.

I think the Surface Pro detractors understand that. There are already excellent tablets on the market that are considerably cheaper and have better battery life.

IMO, Microsoft hasn't made a compelling case for why someone needs a tablet that runs Office. Aside from a few niche uses, what makes a Surface Pro better than a similarly-priced ultrabook or Macbook Air?


Touch screen, stylus, lighter, option for a keyboard dock. Other than that it IS an Ultrabook. All the same hardware plus a touch screen sans the keyboard. Thus compare it to an Ultrabook/Macbook Air, not an iPad.

I think it's pretty cool albeit I'd go for the Samsung XE700 if I decided I ever needed an intermediary portable device. My Desktop+Home Server+Phone meet all my needs.
 
2012-11-30 06:03:10 PM  

Handsome B. Wonderful: ProfessorOhki: The entire "RT" branding is a failure. They should have given the Pro and the RT completely different names and then just called them "Windows 8" and something else, like "Metro" (I know it's just the UI). Then you could advertise your ultrabook/tablet line as Windows 8 (of which Metro app support would be a selling point) and your regular tablet/phone line as just Metro w/ no mention of Windows because that's going to confuse the crap out of most people.

"But this box says 'for Windows 7' why can't I run it on my Windows 8 tablet!? 8 is more than 7!!!"

If it came in a box, you're not going to be able to run it on either Surface.


TFA: Microsoft went public today with pricing for its Surface Pro PC/tablet devices -- the Intel-based ones running Windows 8 Pro that will allow users to run their existing third-party apps on the Desktop.

First link: The more powerful processor and higher-resolution display, along with full support for Windows desktop programs, should alleviate many of the concerns of early adopters who rejected the Surface RT.

Unless Win 8 can't run existing Windows code, which would be suicide on MS part; yes you will. But only on the Pro.

/It's more of a flattop than anything else
//Not to be confused with phablets like the Galaxy Note
///Gonna run out of stupid names for these form factors soon
 
2012-11-30 06:07:56 PM  

dyhchong: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.

I think the Surface Pro detractors understand that. There are already excellent tablets on the market that are considerably cheaper and have better battery life.

IMO, Microsoft hasn't made a compelling case for why someone needs a tablet that runs Office. Aside from a few niche uses, what makes a Surface Pro better than a similarly-priced ultrabook or Macbook Air?

Touch screen, stylus, lighter, option for a keyboard dock. Other than that it IS an Ultrabook. All the same hardware plus a touch screen sans the keyboard. Thus compare it to an Ultrabook/Macbook Air, not an iPad.


If there's decent performance there, it could be phenomenal for Photoshop. Obviously not pro-grade like the Cintiq, but could definitely sway artists away from ultrabooks or iPad-level slates. 

/Convertible tablets have filled that decently up till now
//But detachable keyboard + nicer screen would seal the deal
 
2012-11-30 06:29:34 PM  
"[quote all comments combined]"-People that have no idea how much it costs to license a full blown OS.
 
2012-11-30 07:07:01 PM  

ProfessorOhki:

If it came in a box, you're not going to be able to run it on either Surface.

TFA: Microsoft went public today with pricing for its Surface Pro PC/tablet devices -- the Intel-based ones running Windows 8 Pro that will allow users to run their existing third-party apps on the Desktop.

First link: The more powerful processor and higher-resolution display, along with full support for Windows desktop programs, should alleviate many of the concerns of early adopters who rejected the Surface RT.

Unless Win 8 can't run existing Windows code, which would be suicide on MS part; yes you will. But only on the Pro.

/It's more of a flattop than anything else
//Not to be confused with phablets like the Galaxy Note
///Gonna run out of stupid names for these form factors soon


If it comes in a box it's going to be on a disc... the disc drive on the Surface is where exactly? I was pointing on the stupidity of the original argument.
 
2012-11-30 07:07:55 PM  

neongoats: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: neongoats: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: neongoats: Yep, they saved a hundred bucks. Grats. There is a reason that apple has been crushing the rest of the PC industry when it comes to mobile pcs. Pretty much only Lenovo has the quality to compete.

Except that they aren't....Windows laptops are still king. Unless you are comparing Apple to individual Windows laptop vendors, which would be a bit dishonest. Or if you count iPads, which is even more dishonest.

How is comparing Apple to individual windows laptop vendors dishonest? They are in fact an individual laptop maker. Fact: MBP crushed every single individual PC vendor in laptop unit sales. Period. Ok if you mash all the other laptop vendors together and compare them to Apple all by themselves, yes, more windows units sold.

You're asking how comparing sales of a company that is the sole proprietor of their platform to those of individual companies who compete across a licensed platform is dishonest? Really? It's so fundamentally flawed from a logical standpoint that I don't even know how to break it down any further.

The only meaningful comparison is by platform.

What are you on about. You aren't locked into using OSX on a Mac. You know that, right? You aren't forever a slave to the apple software platform. Windows runs natively, just fine on any intel Mac. I'm typing to you from windows 7 on my MBP. Is it because the MBP didn't ship with windows that its not a fair comparison? I didn't realize that spending 60 bucks on an OEM copy of windows means comparing Apple to other computer vendors was UNFAIR.

Your argument is specious. Pedantic. Basically false. Apple laptop sales continue to grow, and every other Laptop makers sales have fallen. That's verifiable fact. Now, we can debate why that might be, but not while you insist on claiming its not nice, fair, honest to compare etc.


Having serviced quite a few MacBooks, I have to assume that people continue to buy them because they have more money than brains. I'm pretty sure that Apple hires interior designers as engineers with regard to their laptops. Seriously, I would buy an Acer before a MacBook anything.
 
2012-11-30 07:10:57 PM  

Handsome B. Wonderful: ProfessorOhki:

If it came in a box, you're not going to be able to run it on either Surface.

TFA: Microsoft went public today with pricing for its Surface Pro PC/tablet devices -- the Intel-based ones running Windows 8 Pro that will allow users to run their existing third-party apps on the Desktop.

First link: The more powerful processor and higher-resolution display, along with full support for Windows desktop programs, should alleviate many of the concerns of early adopters who rejected the Surface RT.

Unless Win 8 can't run existing Windows code, which would be suicide on MS part; yes you will. But only on the Pro.

/It's more of a flattop than anything else
//Not to be confused with phablets like the Galaxy Note
///Gonna run out of stupid names for these form factors soon

If it comes in a box it's going to be on a disc... the disc drive on the Surface is where exactly? I was pointing on the stupidity of the original argument.


You're right, someone might have to invent a way to network mount a CD drive. I hope they can rise to this monumental and, until now, undiscovered challenge *eye roll*
 
2012-11-30 07:12:21 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Handsome B. Wonderful: ProfessorOhki:

If it came in a box, you're not going to be able to run it on either Surface.

TFA: Microsoft went public today with pricing for its Surface Pro PC/tablet devices -- the Intel-based ones running Windows 8 Pro that will allow users to run their existing third-party apps on the Desktop.

First link: The more powerful processor and higher-resolution display, along with full support for Windows desktop programs, should alleviate many of the concerns of early adopters who rejected the Surface RT.

Unless Win 8 can't run existing Windows code, which would be suicide on MS part; yes you will. But only on the Pro.

/It's more of a flattop than anything else
//Not to be confused with phablets like the Galaxy Note
///Gonna run out of stupid names for these form factors soon

If it comes in a box it's going to be on a disc... the disc drive on the Surface is where exactly? I was pointing on the stupidity of the original argument.

You're right, someone might have to invent a way to network mount a CD drive. I hope they can rise to this monumental and, until now, undiscovered challenge *eye roll*


Or, you know, just use a USB attached optical drive.
 
2012-11-30 07:15:40 PM  

ProfessorOhki: I hope they can rise to this monumental and, until now, undiscovered challenge *eye roll*


I thought that the Surface Pro had a USB port so you could plug in an external DVD reader when you needed to load software.

On Lenovo, their ultrabooks have one huge problem, IMHO. They have an SSD drive, but they also have a regular record player in there too. Take out the spinning disk entirely, replace it with a SSD drive, and most importantly redesign it so it doesn't have the heat & power requirements a spinning disk does. Not sure why they haven't done that last step yet.
 
2012-11-30 07:19:45 PM  
I take it back- it looks like the Yoga has native SSD. What's the advantage of a Surface Pro over a Yoga?
 
2012-11-30 07:22:55 PM  
Wow, this is clearly a game changer. It's going to be bigger than the Kin2 and the Zune put together!
 
2012-11-30 07:28:19 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: I take it back- it looks like the Yoga has native SSD. What's the advantage of a Surface Pro over a Yoga?


1920x1080 v. 1600 x 900 if that's important to you. Going off photos, I sort of think the Yoga's convertible design is iffy. In tablet form, you're got the keyboard on the back and it seems like it would be unpleasant to hold or a great way to get the keyboard filthy in easel configuration.
 
2012-11-30 07:57:10 PM  

DieAchtung: People that have no idea how much it costs to license a full blown OS.


I somehow don't think Microsoft is worried about paying license fees for Windows....
 
2012-11-30 07:58:31 PM  

DieAchtung: "[quote all comments combined]"-People that have no idea how much it costs to license a full blown OS.


Seem to be a few companies that do it for free...
 
2012-11-30 08:49:13 PM  
Cinaed:
Why would anyone buy the top-end model of any tablet?

Very late reply, but sadly, the answer is often "rich twits, executives with no budget constraints, and academics misusing their grant money to buy toys while their lab struggles to get by with an iMac from 1999".

/not bitter or anything
 
2012-11-30 09:00:18 PM  

No Such Agency: Cinaed:
Why would anyone buy the top-end model of any tablet?

Very late reply, but sadly, the answer is often "rich twits, executives with no budget constraints, and academics misusing their grant money to buy toys while their lab struggles to get by with an iMac from 1999".

/not bitter or anything


I bet it's the stock Bondi blue and not one of the four exciting other colors too, isn't it?
 
2012-11-30 09:08:39 PM  
ProfessorOhki:
I bet it's the stock Bondi blue and not one of the four exciting other colors too, isn't it?

Nah, that specific case was made up. But similar things happen all the time. Hell some profs have been known to buy their KIDS computers on their grant. Nobody bothers to blow the whistle because the cost isn't that much compared to a medium-priced experiment that ends up not working out and because nothing would be done about it anyway.

I bet the problem is 10x worse in business where half of execs are bona fide sociopaths.
 
2012-11-30 09:15:07 PM  
There is no one ideal solution for everybody. The end.
 
2012-11-30 09:23:05 PM  

xalres: Vegan Meat Popsicle: ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.

Because some people have really creepy relationships with technology companies and react as violently to any perceived competitor in the market as if somebody were threatening their spouse.

It's weird.

I've often wondered if people are like this with other manufactured goods. Are there threads full of flamewars between Skil users and DeWalt users? Do Hoover owners think Dyson owners are inferior people? If your choice of brand defines you as a person to the point that you feel the need to hurl insults and slights at others who chose differently it's time to take a step back and reevaluate your life a little bit because frankly, that's pretty damn pathetic.


DeWalt is far better than Skil, and Dyson is a waste of money according to my gf's sister.
 
2012-11-30 10:05:24 PM  

firegoat: xalres: Vegan Meat Popsicle: ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.

Because some people have really creepy relationships with technology companies and react as violently to any perceived competitor in the market as if somebody were threatening their spouse.

It's weird.

I've often wondered if people are like this with other manufactured goods. Are there threads full of flamewars between Skil users and DeWalt users? Do Hoover owners think Dyson owners are inferior people? If your choice of brand defines you as a person to the point that you feel the need to hurl insults and slights at others who chose differently it's time to take a step back and reevaluate your life a little bit because frankly, that's pretty damn pathetic.

DeWalt is far better than Skil, and Dyson is a waste of money according to my gf's sister.


Ever been to the midwest?
I've seen fights break out over Chevy, Dodge, or Ford.
 
2012-11-30 11:02:39 PM  

Marine1: THX 1138: Manufacturers are constantly competing for "Thinner, lighter, more portable!" which reduces the space required for a battery inside the enclosure. I wouldn't balk at a tablet that's two millimetres thicker and an ounce heavier if it meant significant battery life improvement.

This. We've blown straight through the wall of diminishing returns with thinness and lightness. Yet, Apple keeps pushing it. So here we are. Everyone happy? No? Didn't think so.


Except for the part where none of Apple's thin and light devices get shiatty battery life like this?

The iPad 3 and iPad 4 are thicker than the iPad 2 because Apple had to increase the size of the battery if they were going to be able to drive a power hungry retina display all day,

Only shiatty engineers would just accept a pathetic battery life like this because they think thin is more important than functional.

Microsoft screwed the pooch on this one. Four hours of battery life is pathetic.
 
2012-11-30 11:13:21 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.

I think the Surface Pro detractors understand that. There are already excellent tablets on the market that are considerably cheaper and have better battery life.

IMO, Microsoft hasn't made a compelling case for why someone needs a tablet that runs Office. Aside from a few niche uses, what makes a Surface Pro better than a similarly-priced ultrabook or Macbook Air?


A more important question would be why in the hell would you care about running Office on a touch screen when Office doesn't support touch? An ultrabook makes the experience of using Office on the go so much better.

Heck, you can even put an ultrabook on your lap and type on a real keyboard! Try that with a Surface. Fail!

Android and iOS both have Office document compatible word processors, spreadsheets, and presentation programs that actually bother to have touch interfaces. Why can't Microsoft get this right?
 
2012-11-30 11:26:48 PM  

BullBearMS: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: ongbok: Except that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet. It is a laptop with a tablet form factor. Why can't people understand that.

I think the Surface Pro detractors understand that. There are already excellent tablets on the market that are considerably cheaper and have better battery life.

IMO, Microsoft hasn't made a compelling case for why someone needs a tablet that runs Office. Aside from a few niche uses, what makes a Surface Pro better than a similarly-priced ultrabook or Macbook Air?

A more important question would be why in the hell would you care about running Office on a touch screen when Office doesn't support touch? An ultrabook makes the experience of using Office on the go so much better.

Heck, you can even put an ultrabook on your lap and type on a real keyboard! Try that with a Surface. Fail!

Android and iOS both have Office document compatible word processors, spreadsheets, and presentation programs that actually bother to have touch interfaces. Why can't Microsoft get this right?


Use it on your lap with a real keyboard by using the keyboard dock that is specially designed for it?

Heck, you can even take the screen off and using it as a tablet! Try that with an Ultrabook. Fail!

It's designed as one device to rule them all, it's similar in price to an Ultrabook of the same spec (but with a higher res screen than most) and I'd imagine aimed at people who would buy both a laptop and a tablet. Also I see plenty of people propping up iPads and writing paragraph upon paragraph, so I hardly see a problem for them. Plus it adds functionality that someone just buying an Ultrabook wouldn't get buying an Ultrabook whilst offering all of the same options.
 
2012-11-30 11:39:37 PM  

MayoSlather: IntertubeUser: Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.

And buying a Microsoft tablet for a grand so you can take better notes in a few classes is what?



To be fair, most Mac Airs are purchased to organize music collections, so it's not too much difference.
 
2012-11-30 11:44:59 PM  

RexTalionis: Kazan: also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?

Well, for tablet form factors, it's on the low side. Most ARM-based tablets (which everyone is used to) run around 8 hours in batteries. My Asus Transformer 300 runs around 10 hours (14 with the keyboard dock). I can go 4 or 5 days between charges on my Transformer.


This. I'm posting on an Acer A500 that I got last Xmas for my GF at Wally World for $320 (if my memory serves me) and I can go all day on it. I love having HDMI output so I can hook it to the flatscreen TV on trips and watch what I want. Mem card slots so I can have movies where there's no net connection. And USB slots so I can use mouse and KB if I want. Apple and M$ can keep their garbage.
 
2012-12-01 12:22:38 AM  

IntertubeUser: Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.

 
2012-12-01 01:31:18 AM  

snowshovel: MayoSlather: IntertubeUser: Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.

And buying a Microsoft tablet for a grand so you can take better notes in a few classes is what?

To be fair, most Mac Airs are purchased to organize music collections, so it's not too much difference.


And write bad poetry...

FormlessOne:
IntertubeUser: Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.

Christ, YES. Are people this farking stupid?
 
2012-12-01 01:58:54 AM  

snowshovel: MayoSlather: IntertubeUser: Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.

And buying a Microsoft tablet for a grand so you can take better notes in a few classes is what?


To be fair, most Mac Airs are purchased to organize music collections, so it's not too much difference.


Many Macs around a grand are purchased to make iPhone apps with. Minis and Airs alike. It's a multi-billion-dollar business, look into it some time.

/all windows computers are for is collecting malware
 
2012-12-01 03:17:38 AM  

LasersHurt: moothemagiccow: Kazan: Surface pro really isn't a tablet, it's an ultrabook in the form of a tablet

we all know how well those sold

I think you're thinking of netbooks? Ultrabooks are doing well.


So did netbooks. I bought a pre-ultrabook early last year. 3.3lbs, 11.6" 1366x768 screen, i7 processor for around $800. If I didn't already have this (I'm using it right now), I would have bought an ultrabook when they came out.
 
2012-12-01 03:45:47 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Surool: Having to keep it plugged into a wall most of the time defeats the point of a tablet completely.

If you don't want it is, maybe you shouldn't comment on it.


I can comment in any thread I want you silly douche-nozzle. I see tons of negative comments about products on Fark, but I've never seen anyone dumb enough to suggest that you aren't allowed to comment on a product you don't want to buy.
 
2012-12-01 07:28:23 AM  

Surool: Vegan Meat Popsicle: Surool: Having to keep it plugged into a wall most of the time defeats the point of a tablet completely.

If you don't want it is, maybe you shouldn't comment on it.

I can comment in any thread I want you silly douche-nozzle. I see tons of negative comments about products on Fark, but I've never seen anyone dumb enough to suggest that you aren't allowed to comment on a product you don't want to buy.


Really - now, someone who has owned and used a product can legitimately (if anecdotally) claim superior experience over a person who has no hands-on with a product - but that's not really the same thing.
 
2012-12-01 07:38:56 AM  

dramatools: Pricing your tablet higher than Apple's doesn't make it better.


Also, Apple pricing their products higher than other peoples does not make them better either.
 
2012-12-01 07:40:26 AM  

Benjimin_Dover: Apple and M$ can keep their garbage.


Now THIS is a comment I can agree with.
 
2012-12-01 08:12:45 AM  
dready zim:

dready zim:


Oh you're just so COOL and ABOVE IT ALL! Aren't you the hippest fark since shiat.
 
2012-12-01 08:43:37 AM  

IntertubeUser: farkeruk: IntertubeUser: Then you're pasting .pdf images into a .docx? How easily can you edit what's in the .pdf image itself? Besides, being able to write and the software automatically interpreting what you're writing into nice, clean, editable .docx notes seems a heck of a lot easier than what you're describing.

Show me a tablet someone automatically interpreting handwriting at a reasonable speed.

Typing...you're right. But I'm a math major. And I've seen other students with Asus tablets using Office in class and the handwriting recognition of Greek letters, integral and derivative notation, etc., is far faster than using Equation Editor. Also, drawing graphs and other diagrams...can't type that.

I might be alone here, but having editable math notes...that's a big deal for me.


If you're doing math and planning on staying in the field, you might as well sack up and learn LaTeX. Being slow at tex has hurt me more than anything else.
 
2012-12-01 10:38:12 AM  

bingethinker: Kazan: mcreadyblue: Why?

the Windows Surface RT is designed to compete with iPad, etc and the hardware is designed to so

Windows Surface Pro is designed to compete with Ultrabooks, but it fills a niche where a lot of corporate IT users want a tablet format, but with Ultrabook features.

The only think they have in common is the "Surface name", they both run (variants) of Windows, and they both have the same basic external physical design. Other than looking like each other they are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BEASTS.

This. Windows has once again made the mistake of using the same name for two different products. The Surface RT and its OS should have completely different names from the Windows 8-capable device.


This goes back to my comment that Windows 8 was Microsoft's worst business decision ever - integrating a tablet UI into a desktop OS. The Surface Pro is the only platform on which that decision makes 'sense', to abuse the word. The Surface Pro is a proper computer in a keyboard-less form factor - having the Fisher-Price touch interface on it is more usable than the old Start menu.

The Surface RT was intended to be an iPad competitor, but with MS Office pre-loaded for enhanced creativity, not just consumption. The Surface Pro is the ultimate market litmus test of the Frankenstein monster of Desktop + Metro. If it fails, the only justification for grafting the abysmal Metro UI onto the industry-standard PC OS fails.
 
2012-12-01 01:01:54 PM  

RexTalionis: Kazan: also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?

Well, for tablet form factors, it's on the low side. Most ARM-based tablets (which everyone is used to) run around 8 hours in batteries. My Asus Transformer 300 runs around 10 hours (14 with the keyboard dock). I can go 4 or 5 days between charges on my Transformer.


Yep, I just got a refurb transformer 300 and love the thing (woot had them with the keyboard dock included for 300 bucks a couple of weeks ago). The battery life is pretty awesome.
 
2012-12-01 08:23:36 PM  
Okay, here's how I see it, if you care:

iPad: I've owned two of them. I loved them both. It's a solid tablet, and iOS is a really decent operating system. However, the prime problem with the iPad is the price. I always feel just plain wrong carrying around a tablet that costs that much, especially when I know that I can get a non-iOS tablet that can do just as much for around half the price. The other problem is that iTunes is a walled garden that doesn't offer an app if Apple doesn't consider it within their business plan. This means no emulators, for example, and I just don't like Apple being the gatekeeper when I disagree so much with their way of doing things. I especially find them hard to cope with when they sell the Mini for over $500... A ridiculous price by any measure.

Kindle Fire: This is the tablet I recommend to anyone who wants the "normal consumer" iPad experience without an iPad price. You get the same sort of simplified front-end, the same focus on media consumption, and the same walled-garden concept for app purchases. However, if you want to create media, the Kindle Fire is a poor choice because of the limited front-end. For me, this is a problem as I use my tablet to write, and without the ability to use a Bluetooth keyboard or run apps that aren't "optimized" for Kindle Fire, I find it wanting. For the average user, though, it's awesome for reading, watching movies, playing games, and consuming media.

Nook Color/Tablet: See "Kindle Fire" above, but with more expensive apps and a smaller selection of apps to choose from... Unless you hack it into a full-fledged Android tablet, then it's pretty decent, though limited by the fact that it's lagging behind on stable Android versions.

Other Android tablets: Of course, here there's another problem... There are so many crappy Android tablets out there that it's hard to judge the OS fairly. When it's on good hardware, it's great. When it's on lackluster hardware, it's a nightmare. I've had several Android tablets, and so far the only one that has been a good experience all-around is the Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 10.1" (or the 7" model, if you want the "mini" size). The ASUS Transformer is good, and if you don't mind very short battery life the Zeki isn't awful (but it's not great, either). The Nexus 7 is excellent except for the lack of an SD card slot (WHY, Google? WHY?).

Microsoft Surface and other Windows 8 tablets: Awesome idea, usually pretty decent hardware, but WAY overpriced. I like Windows 8 on my desktop, and it performs admirably on tablets. I just get back to my problem with the iPad when it comes to Surface and other Windows 8 tablets: I'm not happy wandering around with a tablet that costs over $500 when there are less-expensive, just-as-capable options.

And also, the commercials for Surface are just awful, and they drive me away from the product rather than making me want it.

I'm currently pretty happy with the 10" Galaxy Tab 2.0 -- It's just as good as my iPad was, but with a much lower price tag (right now) and the ability to use a Bluetooth mouse, which makes word processing a bit easier.
 
2012-12-01 10:08:01 PM  

THX 1138: Manufacturers are constantly competing for "Thinner, lighter, more portable!" which reduces the space required for a battery inside the enclosure. I wouldn't balk at a tablet that's two millimetres thicker and an ounce heavier if it meant significant battery life improvement.


Agreed. Same with my phone.

I don't care how little or light it is. Keep it reasonable, but err on the side of more power.
 
2012-12-02 01:11:46 AM  

ZeroCorpse: Okay, here's how I see it, if you care:

iPad: I've owned two of them.

-snip-

You can Jailbreak them you know. You shouldn't have to, but you can.
 
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