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(ZDNet)   If you've ever wanted to pay $1000 for a tablet with a battery life of four hours, do we have good news for you   (zdnet.com) divider line 201
    More: Fail, pro, How Microsoft, John Wiley & Sons  
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10775 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Nov 2012 at 8:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-30 08:08:24 AM  
Pricing your tablet higher than Apple's doesn't make it better.
 
2012-11-30 08:32:06 AM  
And Ballmer scratches his head wondering why Microsoft isnt succeeding outside the Windows/Office/XBOX world
 
2012-11-30 08:35:41 AM  
Still has potential for those who wouldn't find themselves often too far from a power source when using it. Shame about the price tag though, not much you can say to smooth over that bump.
 
2012-11-30 08:41:38 AM  
Well, Intel based is a good thing. Too bad Intel hasn't figured out how to be power efficient yet.
 
2012-11-30 08:46:50 AM  

sasbazooka: Well, Intel based is a good thing. Too bad Intel hasn't figured out how to be power efficient yet.


Better than having any sort of AMD CPU inside
 
2012-11-30 08:54:02 AM  

sasbazooka: Well, Intel based is a good thing. Too bad Intel hasn't figured out how to be power efficient yet.


That may be true, but I think the ultimate limitation is the form factor - remember, ultrabooks and the Macbook Air can get anywhere from 6-10 hours worth of battery life, and they all run Intel chips inside.
 
2012-11-30 09:04:01 AM  

cman: And Ballmer scratches his head wondering why Microsoft isnt succeeding outside the Windows/Office/XBOX world


Developers, developers, developers?
 
2012-11-30 09:11:35 AM  
Surface pro really isn't a tablet, it's an ultrabook in the form of a tablet
 
2012-11-30 09:11:54 AM  

cman: sasbazooka: Well, Intel based is a good thing. Too bad Intel hasn't figured out how to be power efficient yet.

Better than having any sort of AMD CPU inside


Pretty much. AMD still has some high thermal envelopes going for it. They aren't bad for certain desktop setups though. Also rumored to be the brains int he ps4 when it finally releases.

ARM seems to dominate the mobile area right now, must be driving intel and others nuts.
 
2012-11-30 09:18:03 AM  
also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?
 
2012-11-30 09:20:06 AM  

Kazan: also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?


About 2010.
 
2012-11-30 09:20:53 AM  

Kazan: also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?


Well, for tablet form factors, it's on the low side. Most ARM-based tablets (which everyone is used to) run around 8 hours in batteries. My Asus Transformer 300 runs around 10 hours (14 with the keyboard dock). I can go 4 or 5 days between charges on my Transformer.
 
2012-11-30 09:21:18 AM  

cman: And Ballmer scratches his head wondering why Microsoft isnt succeeding outside the Windows/Office/XBOX world


there's still time for them to fail at the xbox/office/windows world too

Kazan: also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?


it's half that of any laptop or competing tablet
 
2012-11-30 09:22:10 AM  

sasbazooka: Well, Intel based is a good thing. Too bad Intel hasn't figured out how to be power efficient yet.


I just upgraded my qx6700 130W processor with a new i5-3570K 77w processor, I used a waterloop before due to extreme heat issues and it made a nice radiating heater under my desk. Now I use the stock cooler and the temps are lower and the thing runs faster than the qx but I've lost my foot heater and need to start wearing socks because of cold.
 
2012-11-30 09:22:26 AM  

Kazan: also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?


I think the bigger issue is the fact that this, the Surface Pro, in the same family as the Surface, costs twice as much as the regular and has half the battery life. Normally in a regular tech company, the Pro version would have better power.
 
2012-11-30 09:34:02 AM  

kalor: wearing socks because of cold.


My home rig is Intel/NVidia, and my wife's rig is AMD/ATI. My system will be cool and quiet, and when she runs her system, it sounds like a 747 gearing up for a takeoff, and the whole room feels like someone turn the car heater on high. It's crazy.
 
2012-11-30 09:35:28 AM  
Manufacturers are constantly competing for "Thinner, lighter, more portable!" which reduces the space required for a battery inside the enclosure. I wouldn't balk at a tablet that's two millimetres thicker and an ounce heavier if it meant significant battery life improvement.
 
2012-11-30 09:35:38 AM  

sasbazooka: kalor: wearing socks because of cold.

My home rig is Intel/NVidia, and my wife's rig is AMD/ATI. My system will be cool and quiet, and when she runs her system, it sounds like a 747 gearing up for a takeoff, and the whole room feels like someone turn the car heater on high. It's crazy.


Sounds like she runs a stock fan. My AMD system makes no sound. Granted, there's also about 2 pounds of copper hanging off of the damn thing.
 
2012-11-30 09:36:45 AM  
I'm guessing other Win Tablet manufacturers will have better battery life, as they will balance performance to power consumption. Microsoft just does not quite get the mobile market.
 
2012-11-30 09:40:56 AM  
Last time I will ever get excited by any Microsoft hardware. For that price you can get a nexus 7 and a laptop with an i5. They missed the part where they have to offer something that's better than their competition. Their only chance at success is to go after the enterprise market. The price tag isn't outrageous if the office buys me one...
 
2012-11-30 09:43:03 AM  
Why would anyone buy the top-end model of any tablet?
 
2012-11-30 09:43:56 AM  

mtb9000: Last time I will ever get excited by any Microsoft hardware. For that price you can get a nexus 7 and a laptop with an i5. They missed the part where they have to offer something that's better than their competition. Their only chance at success is to go after the enterprise market. The price tag isn't outrageous if the office buys me one...


But why would the office buy you one when they can put out less money for more machine? The only thing you would be getting is a lighter form factor and face it, does your work really care how much you lug around?
 
2012-11-30 09:44:36 AM  
Should I get, for family use, an iPad or an MacBook Air?
 
2012-11-30 09:44:45 AM  
That's actually fairly average for an Core i5-based system, both in battery life and in price. Yes, yes, I know, the iPad has better battery life, but the iPad is also not nearly as capable.

To put it in terms an Apple fan can understand, the Surface RT is the iPad. The Surface Pro is the Modbook. I'm not saying that I'm a fan of MS's current direction, but comparing the iPad to the Surface Pro is like comparing apples to bulldozers.
 
2012-11-30 09:45:58 AM  

sasbazooka: kalor: wearing socks because of cold.

My home rig is Intel/NVidia, and my wife's rig is AMD/ATI. My system will be cool and quiet, and when she runs her system, it sounds like a 747 gearing up for a takeoff, and the whole room feels like someone turn the car heater on high. It's crazy.


ATI GPUs are plenty efficient. Generally better than Nvidia. The problem is that AMD really turned up the voltage and hit triple digits in CPU power consumption for some SKUs in order to still get beat handily by Intel in performance.
 
2012-11-30 09:46:58 AM  

cman: Kazan: also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?

I think the bigger issue is the fact that this, the Surface Pro, in the same family as the Surface, costs twice as much as the regular and has half the battery life. Normally in a regular tech company, the Pro version would have better power.


it has better power which is why it has lower running time.

AdamK: it's half that of any laptop or competing tablet


LAPTOP? WAT?

maybe a tablet yes... but the problem is Surface isn't really competing with the existing tablets on the market. It's going for the ultrabook segment that want a tablet with all the features of their ultrabook


mtb9000: Their only chance at success is to go after the enterprise market.


that is EXACTLY the target audience of Surface Pro

sasbazooka: kalor: wearing socks because of cold.

My home rig is Intel/NVidia, and my wife's rig is AMD/ATI. My system will be cool and quiet, and when she runs her system, it sounds like a 747 gearing up for a takeoff, and the whole room feels like someone turn the car heater on high. It's crazy.


amusingly..

Intel/Nvidia = Cool/HOTOTOTOT [until the 6xx series)
AMD/ATI = Hot/Cool [excluding the old HD2k series]
 
2012-11-30 09:47:29 AM  
I once paid $0 for a laptop with a 10 minute battery life, so mine is infinitely better.
 
2012-11-30 09:48:02 AM  
I'm getting tired of having to steer my boss away from mandating that everyone in the office start using a Surface.

He loves his but we have guys with dual 23" monitors who still want more space.

I'm anticipating by the end of Winter it will have devolved into scenarios where I'm slashing tires to keep him from going to Best Buy to pick them up or hiding his wallet.
 
2012-11-30 09:48:11 AM  

madgonad: sasbazooka: kalor: wearing socks because of cold.

My home rig is Intel/NVidia, and my wife's rig is AMD/ATI. My system will be cool and quiet, and when she runs her system, it sounds like a 747 gearing up for a takeoff, and the whole room feels like someone turn the car heater on high. It's crazy.

ATI GPUs are plenty efficient. Generally better than Nvidia. The problem is that AMD really turned up the voltage and hit triple digits in CPU power consumption for some SKUs in order to still get beat handily by Intel in performance.


Bulldozer:AMD::Netburst:Intel
 
2012-11-30 09:50:31 AM  

Kazan: madgonad: sasbazooka: kalor: wearing socks because of cold.

My home rig is Intel/NVidia, and my wife's rig is AMD/ATI. My system will be cool and quiet, and when she runs her system, it sounds like a 747 gearing up for a takeoff, and the whole room feels like someone turn the car heater on high. It's crazy.

ATI GPUs are plenty efficient. Generally better than Nvidia. The problem is that AMD really turned up the voltage and hit triple digits in CPU power consumption for some SKUs in order to still get beat handily by Intel in performance.

Bulldozer:AMD::Netburst:Intel


I thought we're onto Piledriver now.
 
2012-11-30 09:50:51 AM  

RexTalionis: I thought we're onto Piledriver now.


Piledriver is Bulldozer 1.5
 
2012-11-30 09:52:14 AM  

Hagbardr: I once paid $0 for a laptop with a 10 minute battery life, so mine is infinitely better.


Hey, me too! Actually, I did have to spend $80 to throw a hard drive in it. It's down to about 30 seconds of battery life.
 
2012-11-30 09:53:06 AM  
As a student, I'm looking forward to taking notes in a classroom with this. OneNote recognizes the handwritten symbols and operators used in college-level math classes. I've been lusting after better ways of taking notes in class and recording lectures and it looks like the Surface Pro will work wonderfully.

My only gripe is that it won't have Office 2010 (or 2013) already installed; I'll have to buy that separately.

Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.
 
2012-11-30 09:57:52 AM  

BizarreMan: mtb9000: Last time I will ever get excited by any Microsoft hardware. For that price you can get a nexus 7 and a laptop with an i5. They missed the part where they have to offer something that's better than their competition. Their only chance at success is to go after the enterprise market. The price tag isn't outrageous if the office buys me one...

But why would the office buy you one when they can put out less money for more machine? The only thing you would be getting is a lighter form factor and face it, does your work really care how much you lug around?


If you were unfortunate enough to regularly lug a laptop around when the whole thing weighed ten pounds or more for more than a few years, it's likely you've ended up in the doctor's office with back or shoulder problems. The human body is pretty good at lifting things and putting them down over and over. It's not so good at having weight thrown on it for an extended period of time. Repeat that too often, and you'll find your body warping quite a bit.

So, yes, at least in our business, we care. It isn't worth it to us to cut a few hundred off the price of a device if it means we're going to decrease how long someone can work for us by even a few months in the long term.

/used to lug around a 15 pound laptop, no joke
//yeah, shoulder problems from it -- don't walk nearly a mile with 15 pounds on your shoulder!
///backpacks can help, but then random passerbys will beat you for wearing a backpack and not being a youngster. :)
 
2012-11-30 10:01:01 AM  

FitzShivering: /used to lug around a 15 pound laptop, no joke
//yeah, shoulder problems from it -- don't walk nearly a mile with 15 pounds on your shoulder!
///backpacks can help, but then random passerbys will beat you for wearing a backpack and not being a youngster. :)



unless you live somewhere that backpacks are totally normal. i lug my ibuypower cz-17 around using my day hiking pack
 
2012-11-30 10:01:38 AM  

Kazan: also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?


My cheapo Android tablet has a 5 hr battery life with moderate to high usage. That's fine for me because I really only use it when I'm travelling or commuting to/from work on the bus/train. The upside is also that it will either charge off a DC plug or a micro USB plug to 80% in 30-45 minutes. It cost me around 80 bucks with shipping. Granted the size of the tablet affects battery life, but throwing down $1000 for a tablet/pseudo laptop replacement makes me expect a lot more from it.
 
2012-11-30 10:02:06 AM  

Broktun: Should I get, for family use, an iPad or an MacBook Air?


The iPad is mostly a media consumption device. If you want more of a highly portable computer, get the MacBook Air.
 
2012-11-30 10:02:19 AM  

IntertubeUser: As a student, I'm looking forward to taking notes in a classroom with this. OneNote recognizes the handwritten symbols and operators used in college-level math classes. I've been lusting after better ways of taking notes in class and recording lectures and it looks like the Surface Pro will work wonderfully.

My only gripe is that it won't have Office 2010 (or 2013) already installed; I'll have to buy that separately.

Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.


OneNote is available on the iPad for free.
 
2012-11-30 10:02:54 AM  

IntertubeUser: Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.


And buying a Microsoft tablet for a grand so you can take better notes in a few classes is what?
 
2012-11-30 10:03:15 AM  
If this is going to be a generic tablet thread I will say that I got a 7" Fire HD for my Mother in law and it is awesome. Only problem is that Amazon too has adopted the walled garden approach, and their garden is sparse as of this typing. However, for an Amazon prime member, the free streaming video itself is awesome, and the sound / resolution on the thing is fantastic.
 
2012-11-30 10:03:59 AM  

tricycleracer: Hagbardr: I once paid $0 for a laptop with a 10 minute battery life, so mine is infinitely better.

Hey, me too! Actually, I did have to spend $80 to throw a hard drive in it. It's down to about 30 seconds of battery life.


I had to disassemble mine to put a drop of solder on the power jack.
 
2012-11-30 10:06:11 AM  

redmid17: Kazan: also since when is 5 hours of battery life bad?

My cheapo Android tablet has a 5 hr battery life with moderate to high usage. That's fine for me because I really only use it when I'm travelling or commuting to/from work on the bus/train. The upside is also that it will either charge off a DC plug or a micro USB plug to 80% in 30-45 minutes. It cost me around 80 bucks with shipping. Granted the size of the tablet affects battery life, but throwing down $1000 for a tablet/pseudo laptop replacement makes me expect a lot more from it.


performance comes at the price of battery life. ignoring this simple fact is the issue.
 
2012-11-30 10:06:16 AM  

stovepipe: IntertubeUser: As a student, I'm looking forward to taking notes in a classroom with this. OneNote recognizes the handwritten symbols and operators used in college-level math classes. I've been lusting after better ways of taking notes in class and recording lectures and it looks like the Surface Pro will work wonderfully.

My only gripe is that it won't have Office 2010 (or 2013) already installed; I'll have to buy that separately.

Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.

OneNote is available on the iPad for free.


Ever tried writing with an iPad and the styluses (stylii?) that are out there? Better yet, integral symbols, Greek letters, super and sub-script? It's miserable.

The Surface Pro doesn't have that damned capacitive touchscreen that iPad does.
 
2012-11-30 10:07:26 AM  

Cinaed: Why would anyone buy the top-end model of any tablet?


I think a lot of tablet makers are focusing on making tablets that are really fairly portable desktop replacements, i.e. easy to carry around but will mostly stay in one place. Tablets provide easy input for Chinese characters, much easier than the awkward systems currently available. When you have such a large emerging market, it really makes sense to try to capitalize on it. In ten years, I doubt you'll see many keyboards in China outside of specialized environments where people have a lot of training in typing, like secretaries, and so can type faster than they can draw.
 
2012-11-30 10:10:35 AM  

IntertubeUser: stovepipe: IntertubeUser: As a student, I'm looking forward to taking notes in a classroom with this. OneNote recognizes the handwritten symbols and operators used in college-level math classes. I've been lusting after better ways of taking notes in class and recording lectures and it looks like the Surface Pro will work wonderfully.

My only gripe is that it won't have Office 2010 (or 2013) already installed; I'll have to buy that separately.

Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.

OneNote is available on the iPad for free.

Ever tried writing with an iPad and the styluses (stylii?) that are out there? Better yet, integral symbols, Greek letters, super and sub-script? It's miserable.

The Surface Pro doesn't have that damned capacitive touchscreen that iPad does.


Err... yes, the Surface Pro does have a capacitive touchscreen. It just has an additional digitizer for stylus use, which is something the iPad lacks.
 
2012-11-30 10:11:38 AM  

MayoSlather: IntertubeUser: Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad is stupid.

And buying a Microsoft tablet for a grand so you can take better notes in a few classes is what?


Having a digital version of my class notes, which takes my crappy handwriting and makes it readable, lets me edit and rearrange and color code and highlight my notes, and can sync with recordings from the lecture ... a thousand dollars might be worth it. Hell, I could even get Kindle versions of my textbooks and lighten my backpack up even more.
 
2012-11-30 10:15:18 AM  

sasbazooka: Well, Intel based is a good thing. Too bad Intel hasn't figured out how to be power efficient yet.


Except for the Atom processor based tablets. This thing offers an i5 or an i7 processor. You'd expect that in a laptop or desktop, not a tablet.
 
2012-11-30 10:15:57 AM  

IntertubeUser: Kindle versions of my textbooks


How would that work for open book tests? You might find yourself screwed on exam day if you are only allowed the mandated text and one sheet of notes.

/engineering major
//many moons ago
 
2012-11-30 10:17:18 AM  

HeartBurnKid: IntertubeUser: stovepipe: IntertubeUser: As a student, I'm looking forward to taking notes in a classroom with this.
The Surface Pro doesn't have that damned capacitive touchscreen that iPad does.

Err... yes, the Surface Pro does have a capacitive touchscreen. It just has an additional digitizer for stylus use, which is something the iPad lacks.


Oops. You're right. Sorry about that.
 
2012-11-30 10:18:27 AM  

Hagbardr: tricycleracer: Hagbardr: I once paid $0 for a laptop with a 10 minute battery life, so mine is infinitely better.

Hey, me too! Actually, I did have to spend $80 to throw a hard drive in it. It's down to about 30 seconds of battery life.

I had to disassemble mine to put a drop of solder on the power jack.


That's what mine probably needs. You really have to fidget with the plug to get it to light up the charging LED. If it falls out of alignment, you have 10 seconds to fix it or the laptop will self-destruct.

/Okay, it won't explode. Just hibernates and subsequently dies.
 
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