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(Huffington Post)   Charles Krauthammer: "We got a better deal when we lost in the Civil War"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 112
    More: Dumbass, Charles Krauthammer, Appomattox, Ryan Grim, entitlement reform, Bret Baier, analogy, estate taxes, General Robert E. Lee  
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6321 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Nov 2012 at 8:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-11-30 08:37:00 AM  
14 votes:

yeegrek: Who's "we", homeboy?

Because a New York born, Quebec and Boston educated, physically handicapped Jewish man would have been sooooooo welcome in the Confederacy.


It is interesting that he automatically equates the modern republican party with the losing side of the civil war....
2012-11-30 08:33:47 AM  
11 votes:
Who's "we", homeboy?

Because a New York born, Quebec and Boston educated, physically handicapped Jewish man would have been sooooooo welcome in the Confederacy.
2012-11-30 08:26:37 AM  
10 votes:
well at least he admits he's a racist douchenozzle that want to destroy this country
2012-11-30 08:32:15 AM  
7 votes:
Not hanging a few of the traitors after the Civil War was a terrible mistake.
2012-11-30 09:03:15 AM  
6 votes:
He gave you 98% of what you wanted last time and you reneged on your end of the deal (cutting DoD funding) so fark off GOP.
2012-11-30 08:59:57 AM  
6 votes:
They didn't win the House. They gerrymandered the fark out of their districts to retain it.
2012-11-30 08:43:20 AM  
6 votes:
Wait, the GOP has been telling me for the last few years that they were the party of Lincoln.
Lincoln won the civil war.
2012-11-30 08:42:26 AM  
6 votes:

incendi: yeegrek: Who's "we", homeboy?

Because a New York born, Quebec and Boston educated, physically handicapped Jewish man would have been sooooooo welcome in the Confederacy.

It is interesting that he automatically equates the modern republican party with the losing side of the civil war....


With the Southern Strategy, the attempts to degrade poor people and take away workers' rights, proposals to allow child labor and special "work zones" where minimum wage laws don't apply, warmongering, mistrust and/or hatred of anyone who is not a male WASP, and repeated calls for states' rights in situations where federal law already trumps state law, the only thing interesting about the equation is that Krauthammer is being truthful.
2012-11-30 08:55:47 AM  
4 votes:

theknuckler_33: I love this "they barely won" narrative the right is pushing considering the results of 2000 and 2004.


Fortunately, the president recognizes this line is bullshiat and is finally acting like it.

However, the dems need to not lose focus and let the republicans reenact 2010 in 2014. If that happens, they're gonna tear down everything that's been accomplished since H.W. Bush, just out of spite.
2012-11-30 08:48:37 AM  
4 votes:
"Republicans won the House" I hate how they keep falling back on this. It should be completely obvious to EVERYONE that this is because they rigged it. The Dems won 50.2% of the vote for the house compared with 49.7% for the GOP. Now this is not a huge margin but considering the GOP ended up with 51.4% of the seats compared with 44.8% for the Dems, something is wrong.

But of course the media will never call the GOP out on this when they bring it up because they have to be "fair and balanced".

We are farked
2012-11-30 08:46:57 AM  
4 votes:
Nobody is serious about the deficit if they don't call for massive cuts to the Pentagon budget.

The Republicans are serious about wrecking the lives of the 98% in order to shovel money into bank accounts of the 2%.
2012-11-30 08:36:27 AM  
4 votes:

Philip Francis Queeg: Not hanging a few of the traitors after the Civil War was a terrible mistake.


Sherman also erred, by leaving any traitors to send to the gallows in the first place.
2012-11-30 08:36:04 AM  
4 votes:
When you support malevolent goals, and lie about nearly everything at all times, why should anyone listen to you?
2012-11-30 08:33:28 AM  
4 votes:
Huh, so Krauthammer is basically admitting that much of the right wing punditries defense of tax cuts for the wealthy and lower capital gains taxes is as much about personal greed as sound fiscal policy.

Well, alrighty then. Good to know.
2012-11-30 10:19:33 AM  
3 votes:

The last four years.....

First
0.tqn.com
... then ...

0.tqn.com

... then ... etc..


so fark YOU, GOP!! That's the best deal you farking assholes should get!
2012-11-30 09:35:23 AM  
3 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary, that "asking the wealthy to pay a little more" would fix our problems. They voted accordingly.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

Imagine my surprise to find out neither of these things is true.


You're surprised the fantasy world you've created in your head isn't real?

You must vote Republican...
2012-11-30 09:10:50 AM  
3 votes:
Guess what, GOP?

Rates are going up on the upper income brackets of the wealthiest Americans one way or the other...

You lost. The Administration's ideas "won the day". You're the ones who need to come closer to his position. Or, you can continue to act like petulant children and accept most of the blame when middle class tax rates also go up.

Krauthammer's right in one way. The GOP is like the Confederacy... Beaten, on the wrong side of history, and in no position to make demands.
2012-11-30 09:05:40 AM  
3 votes:

Buffalo77: Corvus [

Where is the GOP plan?

Don't need a plan. Time for the libs to govern, you won. Now do it.

Still PBO campaigns. Get back to DC and tell the senate what to do.


1. Don't pass any Democrat ideas in the house
2. Filibuster all Democrat bills in the Senate
3. Blame Dems for 'not leading'
4. Profit?
2012-11-30 08:44:59 AM  
3 votes:

yeegrek: Who's "we", homeboy?

Because a New York born, Quebec and Boston educated, physically handicapped Jewish man would have been sooooooo welcome in the Confederacy.


If he owned a plantation in Georgia he would have been. The Confederacy wasn't the Third Reich.
2012-11-30 08:42:46 AM  
3 votes:
This is what happens when you lose elections because you were too busy coddling rich people who were going to vote for you anyway, Chuck.

Also doesn't help when you can't get your folks from making really, really, really stupid comments about rape.
2012-11-30 08:40:24 AM  
3 votes:
They shat the bed, let em roll around in it...
2012-11-30 11:55:14 AM  
2 votes:
Every officer and every person who served in any form of Confederate government should have been hanged. It is what you do to traitors. But no... we had to "heal". What a bunch of BS. Those same traitors were in power not two years later, being racist and jim crowie, and their stupid inbred kids are still southern stratgey-ing it now.

This line of thought falls under the false assumption that lincoln was correct in even fighting the Civil War. America would be a lot better off without fat, stupid, racist Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Texas, etc. These states suck money from the CREATOR states.
2012-11-30 11:40:00 AM  
2 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: I was told by Fark Liberals


No, you weren't.

Lucky LaRue: What makes you think the South didn't understand that they were part of a failed rebellion?


The fact that even to this day, more than 140 years later, many, if not most, Southerners still call it "The War of Northern Aggression" Whether or not they've internalized the fact that they may be arguable, but in mys experience with the South (which is not extensive, but is certainly pretty broad) they most certainly do not see it as a "rebellion."
2012-11-30 10:35:15 AM  
2 votes:
i301.photobucket.com
2012-11-30 10:11:03 AM  
2 votes:
Considering that they should have all eaten bullets, the south got an amazing deal.
2012-11-30 10:10:37 AM  
2 votes:
We'll give you a better deal next time, assholes.
i18.photobucket.com
2012-11-30 10:08:28 AM  
2 votes:
Star Wars fans got a better deal with "Episode 1: The Phantom Menace"
2012-11-30 10:01:09 AM  
2 votes:

NateGrey: Zeb Hesselgresser: America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary, that "asking the wealthy to pay a little more" would fix our problems. They voted accordingly.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

Imagine my surprise to find out neither of these things is true.

Account created: 2012-08-07 11:56:45

Which Fark Liberals?


New game: Match the new account to the old account that disappeared after November 6th.
2012-11-30 09:34:11 AM  
2 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary, that "asking the wealthy to pay a little more" would fix our problems. They voted accordingly.


So we should go with the president's proposals, then. The people have spoken, after all.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing.

Were these liberals made of straw?
2012-11-30 09:21:08 AM  
2 votes:
Actually Obama is above Romney now by 4.5 million votes with votes still to be counted. He will end up with a 5 million vote lead in all likelihood.

His percentage lead is currently 50.90 to 47.36.

4% point lead with an almost 5 million vote advantage.

The last Republican to win by over 5 million votes in the popular vote was in 1988 over 24 years ago.

Since then Democrats have either lost by winning the popular vote or losing by about 3 million. Democrats meanwhile have won by totals of 8 million votes, 5 million votes, 10 million votes and this term almost 5 million votes (with a slow economy, high unemployment and a black man named barack hussein obama....)

Wow the GOP sucks.
2012-11-30 09:14:52 AM  
2 votes:

born_yesterday: mrshowrules: brerjeff: A few months ago, my mom who is a baby-boomer tea party crazy-type, was trying to save me from my socialist-communist tendencies and was trying to convince me how right she was by suggesting I read some columns from Krauthammer. I haven't stopped laughing yet.

As I picture your mom.

[ct.fra.bz image 600x416]

/no offense

There's this look of smugness that stupid people can achieve that no thinking person can ever come close to...it fills me with much rage, because you know there's no way you can use knowledge, facts, or wisdom to get rid of it. It is the impenetrable shield of stupidity.


What's the saying that ignorant people are supremely confident in their 'knowledge' while smart people are filled with doubt about theirs?
2012-11-30 09:08:36 AM  
2 votes:
They obviously expect the Republicans will cave on everything. I think Republican ought to simply walk away.

this has been the theme I'm hearing from a LOT of Republican pundits. they're telling the Republicans NOT to compromise with the Democrats and to take their ball and go home. it's surprisingly well coordinated. Krauthammer, Limbaugh and I think I heard Beck and Hannity say something along similar lines. this theme is a bit TOO unified to be merely coincidence.

hmm.
2012-11-30 09:05:14 AM  
2 votes:

mrshowrules: brerjeff: A few months ago, my mom who is a baby-boomer tea party crazy-type, was trying to save me from my socialist-communist tendencies and was trying to convince me how right she was by suggesting I read some columns from Krauthammer. I haven't stopped laughing yet.

As I picture your mom.

[ct.fra.bz image 600x416]

/no offense


There's this look of smugness that stupid people can achieve that no thinking person can ever come close to...it fills me with much rage, because you know there's no way you can use knowledge, facts, or wisdom to get rid of it. It is the impenetrable shield of stupidity.

badhatharry: The Democrats know they make any demands that they want. They know the Republicans will be blamed no matter what happens. That's what happens when you don't have a free press.

/analogies...how do they work?

2012-11-30 09:02:29 AM  
2 votes:

Skarekrough: We go over the cliff and lose funding for entitlement programs were in a situation for most aspects where Americans can help other Americans. It sucks that it happens but we can rally together to help one another


Oh farking bullshiat. Half this country wouldn't lift a finger to help another American in need. They sneer at the "takers" and "moochers". They will happily watch them suffer.
2012-11-30 09:01:48 AM  
2 votes:

Buffalo77: Don't need a plan. Time for the libs to govern, you won. Now do it.


t3.gstatic.com

I'd accept an admission that Ryan didn't have a plan. He just thought voters were dumb enough to believe he did.
2012-11-30 08:56:43 AM  
2 votes:
"We got a better deal when we lost in the Civil War"

"We"? Speak for yourself, Charlie. My side won that war. And we were obviously too easy on the losers.
2012-11-30 08:53:06 AM  
2 votes:

Corvus: Where is the GOP plan?


Surely Paul Ryan has time to explain the math now, right?
2012-11-30 08:52:31 AM  
2 votes:
Some guy who isn't smart enough to check if there's water in the pool before he dives in has an opinion on something. Now, ask me if I care.
2012-11-30 08:52:11 AM  
2 votes:
Where is the GOP plan?
2012-11-30 08:51:09 AM  
2 votes:
Republicans either have no farking idea how negotiations work, they are the most disingenuous douchebags ever, or both. When you constantly ask another side for their terms and they do, you don't respond with name calling. You put your terms on the table and then work towards common ground through compromise. From the Republican's response, either they have no idea how to negotiate or they are trying to rig it to where they can blame every unpopular decision made on the President

What Krauthamer needs to realize that as with the last election, like with the Civil War,his side lost. Man up and deal with it.

The scary part is it seems like they are so pissed about losing they want to take the whole country down with them. A certain WWII leader felt the same way. (Yes I went there.)
2012-11-30 08:50:58 AM  
2 votes:
The Democrats won by 3% of the vote and they did not hold the House. Republicans won the House. So this is not exactly unconditional surrender, but that's what the administration is asking of Republicans.

I love this "they barely won" narrative the right is pushing considering the results of 2000 and 2004.
2012-11-30 08:44:02 AM  
2 votes:

Sock Ruh Tease: the only thing interesting about the equation is that Krauthammer is being truthful.


I always at least gave him credit for lying through his teeth to cover up his real views. It's disturbing to see him just come right out and admit them all in a single sentence.
2012-11-30 08:41:29 AM  
2 votes:

somedude210: well at least he admits he's a racist douchenozzle that want to destroy this country


i121.photobucket.com
2012-11-30 08:41:15 AM  
2 votes:
I'm sure he wishes had slavery back so those poor companies could have a chance to compete with the foriegn wokforce
2012-11-30 04:49:20 PM  
1 votes:

HighOnCraic: But I thought they were the Party of Lincoln?

/sarc


We are. Subby reversed the comment to make it seem like we weren't.

// Subby is a retard evidently
2012-11-30 03:39:36 PM  
1 votes:
Not to detract from the stupidity of Krauthammer at comparing the two situations, but he didn't really refer to the Confederacy as "we."

Once again, the Repubs say enough stupid shiat to last a lifetime, you don't need to put words in their mouths.
2012-11-30 02:22:10 PM  
1 votes:
Subby- He didn't say "we." If you read the article you linked, CK says "Robert E. Lee" got a better deal.

It may not seem like a big deal but as you wrote it, it was perplexingly off base. After all, the Republicans won the Civil war and dictated terms to the Democrats who lost the war. Since Krauthammer is a Republican, it would be odd for him to say "we" when mentioning the defeated Democrat slave owners.
2012-11-30 12:00:54 PM  
1 votes:

orlandomagik: Yeah, well you assholes were on the wrong side of history then, and you on the wrong side of history now.


We're they ever on the right side of any issue?
2012-11-30 11:53:03 AM  
1 votes:

Anti_illuminati: vygramul: Anti_illuminati: Uchiha_Cycliste: Anti_illuminati: Uncle Tractor: [i560.photobucket.com image 640x256]

Ummmm... sure. Whatever you say.

you disagree?

how?

Yes.

I would say the Civil War was the worst threat the US has ever faced.

There's no need for this ridiculous hyperbole.

One could argue that the 1860 Democratic Party was the worst threat the US had ever faced, but it is now superceded by the modern Republican Party.

When we get into a violent conflict where Americans and shedding American blood, I'll be right there to agree with you.


Bloody conflicts are not the only way to change a nation into something new. One could have made the argument that Perestroika was the greatest threat the Soviet Union ever faced. And, in fact, it ended the Soviet Union, something Hitler failed to do.
2012-11-30 11:49:25 AM  
1 votes:
Yeah, well you assholes were on the wrong side of history then, and you on the wrong side of history now.
2012-11-30 11:38:01 AM  
1 votes:

Anti_illuminati: I would say the Civil War was the worst threat the US has ever faced.


I disagree. The US would have lost a few states if the north had lost, but it would still have been the US. Smaller (and smarter, some would say), but still the US. On the other hand, today's GOP is hellbent on turning the US into a third-world theocracy.

Try again?

There's no need for this ridiculous hyperbole.

lebowski.jpg
2012-11-30 11:36:59 AM  
1 votes:

Dwight_Yeast: Could we please refer to him in future as "Fatuous wheeled gasbag Charles Krauthammer"?


As much as I disagree with him, his being in a wheelchair in no way is related to the idiocy of his ideas nor the damage they cause. It hurts more than helps to bring this up about him.
2012-11-30 11:35:12 AM  
1 votes:

Holocaust Agnostic: Philip Francis Queeg: Skarekrough: We go over the cliff and lose funding for entitlement programs were in a situation for most aspects where Americans can help other Americans. It sucks that it happens but we can rally together to help one another

Oh farking bullshiat. Half this country wouldn't lift a finger to help another American in need. They sneer at the "takers" and "moochers". They will happily watch them suffer.

You sound like you haven't met many Americans.


You sound like you haven't ever spoken to a Republican.
2012-11-30 11:16:38 AM  
1 votes:
Are we not allowing them to keep their horses?

www.mikecornelison.com
2012-11-30 11:12:56 AM  
1 votes:

vygramul: Anti_illuminati: Uchiha_Cycliste: Anti_illuminati: Uncle Tractor: [i560.photobucket.com image 640x256]

Ummmm... sure. Whatever you say.

you disagree?

how?

Yes.

I would say the Civil War was the worst threat the US has ever faced.

There's no need for this ridiculous hyperbole.

One could argue that the 1860 Democratic Party was the worst threat the US had ever faced, but it is now superceded by the modern Republican Party.


When we get into a violent conflict where Americans and shedding American blood, I'll be right there to agree with you.
2012-11-30 11:06:18 AM  
1 votes:

Uchiha_Cycliste: Anti_illuminati: Uncle Tractor: [i560.photobucket.com image 640x256]

Ummmm... sure. Whatever you say.

you disagree?

how?


Yes.

I would say the Civil War was the worst threat the US has ever faced.

There's no need for this ridiculous hyperbole.
2012-11-30 10:48:19 AM  
1 votes:
i560.photobucket.com
2012-11-30 10:47:34 AM  
1 votes:

born_yesterday: Uchiha_Cycliste: These chuckle farks are going to try to destroy us all to protect the income of the top 1/5 of 1% of Americans and are lying about how much damage it will do the whole way.

fark these guys


Step 1: Weaken banking regulations, leading to wild speculation, a crash, and a recession, costing middle class jobs.
Step 2: Openly argue for eliminating the mortgage deduction.
Step 3: Win ALL of the elections.

If you can find a way to slip in, "Corporations are sitting on the largest pile of money in history to punish America for voting for the black man", be my guest.


They want to raise taxes on the poor.
They want to hurt entitlements all the while bastardizing the definition of entitlement to include anyone (poor) who gets money from the government.
They want to give more money to the military*
They want to raise taxes on the middle class
They want to make sure the rich DON'T have their taxes raised

These are the goals they have explicitly stated they are working towards for this fiscal cliff nonsense. They are rejecting out of hand anything the whitehouse tries and then they biatch that Obama is the one who is not serious and they are the ones willing to compromise. It's unbearable. Even more so because none of the media is taking them to task on the bullshiat.

\* it makes sense when you consider more military money means giving that money to the people that own defense companies and what have you, essentially shifting the money from tax payers to providers of military HW.
2012-11-30 10:36:40 AM  
1 votes:

Uchiha_Cycliste: These chuckle farks are going to try to destroy us all to protect the income of the top 1/5 of 1% of Americans and are lying about how much damage it will do the whole way.

fark these guys



Step 1: Weaken banking regulations, leading to wild speculation, a crash, and a recession, costing middle class jobs.
Step 2: Openly argue for eliminating the mortgage deduction.
Step 3: Win ALL of the elections.

If you can find a way to slip in, "Corporations are sitting on the largest pile of money in history to punish America for voting for the black man", be my guest.
2012-11-30 10:35:37 AM  
1 votes:

somedude210: well at least he admits he's a racist douchenozzle that want to destroy this country


and a least he admits they lost the war unlike many people I come across in the south.
2012-11-30 10:31:45 AM  
1 votes:
So I was pissed last night when I heard John Boner complaining that the president wasn't willing to work with him because he wasn't willing to stop looking for increased tax rates on the rich.
Then I heard a breakdown of who those "small business owners" really are:

I HIGHLY recommend you read this for yourself, first, but I'll summarize some of it:
small business owner breakdown

Last year, there were some analysts at the Treasury Department who tried to take a closer look at how many top earners really meet the public's idea of a small business. So they threw out all those who were making more than $10 million. At the other end, they threw out people who might have a big salary from a day job and then a little small business on the side.

And when they narrowed the definition that way, what they found was about one in five taxpayers in those top two brackets is a small business owner. And of all the income in those brackets that would be taxed at a higher rate, only about 7 percent comes from small businesses.

BLOCK: And small businesses, again, defined as those making up to $10 million.

HORSLEY: That's right.

BLOCK: OK. Now, part of this focus on small business, Scott, is because that's supposed to be where a lot of jobs are created. This is another thing that Republicans say time and time again.

HORSLEY: That's right. You aren't going to get a lot of traction just by defending small businesses per se. But when start talking, saying raising tax rates would cost jobs, then the public starts to pay attention. And that's why in Republican lingo wealthy people are invariably described as job creators.

However, the Congressional Budget Office, when they looked at what the job affect of raising those taxes would be, they found it'd really be pretty tiny, about 200,000 jobs over the course of a decade. Now, that sounds like kind of a lot, but it's only about as many jobs as we've been adding in one or two months. So it's a fairly small effect we're talking about.


These assholes keep claiming that raising tax rates will stop job growth, and it turns out to be a months worth of jobs over a decade.

so truthfully, they are throwing an epic, nation and fiscal destroying temper tantrum so that the ultra rich won't pay a little bit more in taxes. All the while they want to hit the poor and middle class ten times harder than the democrats would ever even consider hitting the rich.

These chuckle farks are going to try to destroy us all to protect the income of the top 1/5 of 1% of Americans and are lying about how much damage it will do the whole way.

fark these guys
2012-11-30 10:27:26 AM  
1 votes:

Philip Francis Queeg: Not hanging a few of the traitors after the Civil War was a terrible mistake.


Turning Lee's front lawn into the national graveyard was a good touch I think.
2012-11-30 10:23:52 AM  
1 votes:
For some reason, when the public has to choose between "Tax increase on the rich" or "Deep spending cuts but we're not gonna tell you what we're cutting cause you'll get mad" they decide they'd rather increase taxes on the rich.
2012-11-30 10:16:05 AM  
1 votes:
OK, not to piss in the shoot em all pool party here, but the south definitely should secede again, and just be allowed to ho.
2012-11-30 10:06:03 AM  
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary, that "asking the wealthy to pay a little more" would fix our problems.


Please don't give people like this a hard time for their beliefs. Living in an echo chamber and totally writing off huge segments of the media is part of the reason that republicans lose elections.
2012-11-30 10:05:52 AM  
1 votes:
Just my two cents. I've been thinking about this since the "fiscal cliff" agreement was announced. Both sides recognize that military spending AND entitlement spending are way out of hand. They struck this deal knowing full well that this "cliff" would come to pass. They both claimed that it was set up to make both sides come to the table to negotiate a deal, but in reality, they both wanted this fiscal cliff. Both sides can claim the other side is at fault (I'm not saying that both sides share equal blame, just saying that both sides will blame the other) but both sides end up getting something that they wanted without having to admit that they wanted it. We go through a few years of lower economic growth, perhaps some recession thrown in as well, but we come out on the other side stronger, with less spending on things we can't really afford. We also get back to non-deficit spending and finally get our country out of debt.
Both sides can continue playing partisan politics, while simultaneously actually getting things done that the country really does need. No one opens themselves up to personal attacks when it comes time for their party nominations.

Sorry if it's a bit jumble, this is the first time I've actually written this all out, and I may have missed a few points.
2012-11-30 09:59:25 AM  
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: The GOP are holding tax cuts on the first 250k of income hostage and are willing to crash the economy and hurt everyone to keep their tax cuts for the wealthy intact.


Its not just about tax cuts for the wealthy. They lied for three years telling us that the Bush economy was the result of Obama's PROPOSED taxes on the rich. They told us that these "job creators" who were being taxed at historically low levels couldn't create jobs because MAYBE Obama was going to raise taxes and make them pay for their employee's healthcare. Now that the lie has been rejected by a majority of the country, they're caught in between keeping their derpy constituents happy and joining the real world in honest debate about tax reform. Some of them have decided to keep up the lie. Its hard for them to now say, hey maybe some revenue isn't such a bad idea, when they've been calling people who want more taxes 'Socialist' for three years.
2012-11-30 09:59:23 AM  
1 votes:

keylock71:
As always... Follow the money. 'Course, that's not always easy to do.


well...limbaugh and beck are owned by clear channel.
2012-11-30 09:58:53 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: the Republican pundits are screaming (again, in a weirdly coordinated manner) not to compromise with the Democrats. ... the GOP pundits are literally reading off the same talking points sheet. like I said, this is all very coordinated. my question is...who's doing all this coordinating? sounds vaguely conspiracy theory-ish I know, right? but when all the big name GOP pundits repeat the same phrases for a week well...I start to wonder if they're getting their orders from somewhere. it wouldn't be a big deal if they were, I just like to see who's got their hand up Limbaugh's ass and is playing him like Kermit the frog.



That's been going on for decades, and really coalesced in the early-mid 90s around the time that Limbaugh had his biggest triumphs. (Remember that before 1992 he was an independent conservative voice, and that all stopped the day George H.W. Bush invited him for a sleepover.)

Twelve years ago the common wisdom was that this was all coordinated somewhere in the RNC with weekly message meetings every Wednesday morning followed by "Blast Faxes" with the week's talking points sent to all their media apparatchiks.. My best guess is we won't know the definitive answer to your question until the disgruntled insider tell-all books come out a few months after the Final Republican Crackup.

I can't wait for those; lots of us have been wondering about the answer to your question for a long time...
2012-11-30 09:55:43 AM  
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: graggor: Zeb Hesselgresser: Hobodeluxe: Zeb Hesselgresser: America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary, that "asking the wealthy to pay a little more" would fix our problems. They voted accordingly.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

Imagine my surprise to find out neither of these things is true.

citation needed

I don't recall anyone here saying entitlements wouldn't be touched by the automatic cuts. it was clear to everyone they would be.

Some social programs yes, Social Security not at all and Medicare, not so much.

Link

Medicaid you mean. Know the difference? (the idiots linked article shows medicare as one of the cuts....wow)

You can't trust The Washington Post? Who knew.


The article you linked to said Medicare was one of the cuts but Medicaid was not one.

Get it?
2012-11-30 09:50:59 AM  
1 votes:
2012-11-30 09:49:54 AM  
1 votes:
The Jews got a better deal on Kristallnacht.

The Japanese got a better deal with Hiroshima.
2012-11-30 09:49:30 AM  
1 votes:
If everything is increasing why is it called a "cliff"?
2012-11-30 09:45:43 AM  
1 votes:
Quote in headline: We got a better deal when we lost in the Civil War

Actual quote in article: Robert E. Lee was offered easier terms at Appomattox and he lost the Civil War

Farktards who did not read the article: ZOMG, treason and racism!

Well played, Trollmitter, well played.
2012-11-30 09:45:19 AM  
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: Hobodeluxe: Zeb Hesselgresser: America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary, that "asking the wealthy to pay a little more" would fix our problems. They voted accordingly.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

Imagine my surprise to find out neither of these things is true.

citation needed

I don't recall anyone here saying entitlements wouldn't be touched by the automatic cuts. it was clear to everyone they would be.

Some social programs yes, Social Security not at all and Medicare, not so much.

Link


Medicaid you mean. Know the difference? (the idiots linked article shows medicare as one of the cuts....wow)
2012-11-30 09:41:52 AM  
1 votes:

phaseolus: Zeb Hesselgresser: America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary


That right there is demonstrably false.


Well, duh. Outright lying is part of their game plan. It has been for years.

Why people continually show surprise or even note that GOP partisans are liars, is beyond me.
2012-11-30 09:40:47 AM  
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary



That right there is demonstrably false.
2012-11-30 09:37:27 AM  
1 votes:

theknuckler_33: Take a look at my district in Pa (6th congressional district)


Hell, some of the State Senate and Assembly districts they drew up here in Wisconsin look like fractals. Some of the borders were apparently drawn a block or two away from where sitting Democratic legislators lived, just to fark them over
2012-11-30 09:36:26 AM  
1 votes:
Do you think they realize how bad off they are at this point? The GOP, I mean.

Consider that their greatest achievement in 2014 was 'holding' the House and that was strictly by means of Gerrymandering their districts to hell and back.

Don't they realize that such a thing is a purely defensive maneuver? That it's equivalent to a 'Fortress Republica' approach to political efforts?

In politics, if you fall back onto such defensive thinking and efforts, you're ceding the momentum and allowing your opponents to stay on the offensive...Now, combine 'that' defensive mentality with the inescapable reality of changing demographics...

In short, GOP, if you don't change, if you don't take on a new immediate approach and divest yourself of your corrupt xenophobes, and religious zealots, you're going to find yourself with a crumbling fortress and an increasingly smaller and smaller domain.

One day, you're going to wake up and you'll be the Roman Empire, ruler of a few square miles in the middle of Italy, surrounded by the modern world.
2012-11-30 09:34:57 AM  
1 votes:
So the democrats shrunk the gap in the house by 8 seats and this is a massive victory for the GOP?
2012-11-30 09:33:01 AM  
1 votes:
i1151.photobucket.com
Yay verily! Whilst thine buttocks stop suffering the slings & arrows of defeat?
Destined to an existence of permanent agony is my lot!
YE GODS! THE PAIN! THE DISGRACE!!
2012-11-30 09:32:57 AM  
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary, that "asking the wealthy to pay a little more" would fix our problems. They voted accordingly.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

Imagine my surprise to find out neither of these things is true.


What are you even talking about?

You are trying to disprove two things (one being a negative which is impossible) and the other something that hasnt even happened...
2012-11-30 09:32:31 AM  
1 votes:
Just how pathetic has it gotten that people are clinging to Republicans NOT losing the House as a sign of their negotiating advantage? They lost seats in both chambers AND the Presidency.

Just how stupid do these shiatheels think people really are?

/Looks like December is gonna be even more fun this year than usual.
2012-11-30 09:32:04 AM  
1 votes:
i48.photobucket.com

To Chuck,

Would you like me to come visit again?

Yours,

Bill Sherman
2012-11-30 09:30:48 AM  
1 votes:
America was told by Obama, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC .. et al, that entitlement reform wasn't necessary, that "asking the wealthy to pay a little more" would fix our problems. They voted accordingly.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

Imagine my surprise to find out neither of these things is true.
2012-11-30 09:26:44 AM  
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: The GOP are holding tax cuts on the first 250k of income hostage and are willing to crash the economy and hurt everyone to keep their tax cuts for the wealthy intact.


they will fight to the very last second. they already know they are going to cave. this is all damage control for their base.
2012-11-30 09:20:46 AM  
1 votes:

Zerochance: I don't have much genuine contempt for a whole lot of people on the right. I disagree with the lot of them, dislike most of them, but genuine contempt? Very few, Krauthammer being one of them.

He is the succinct embodiment of everything that is wrong with Conservative media today. Krauthammer is, by every measure, a highly intelligent, exceedingly well educated man who has broken rank with his party, particularly the religious right, on many issues. He could at least attempt to steer his party back into the real conservatism he's championed for most of his career but as a commentator for FOX News he seems much more intent on sticking his flaccid, non-functioning dick in that poor, poor chicken.

The problem with people like Krauthammer, and Jennifer Rubin is that they have absolutely no interest in having an honest discourse with their audience. Absolutely none. They're just parroting talking points, feeding a narrative that has absolutely no grounding in reality. It's particularly bad in Krauthammer's instance, because he is highly regarded as an intellectual heavyweight, and he uses this standing to validate the most moronic talking points for the FOX News audience instead of actually having an honest discussion. It's selling out, in a way.

And this whopper just sort of confirms it. Krauthammer is Jewish, born in New York and raised in Canada; he feels no kinship to the Civil War. He just said that shiat because he knows the average FOX News viewer is pretty pink around the collar and would react to it.


He's a neocon who wants America to do whatever Bibi tells them to do. Including toppling Iran for them.
2012-11-30 09:18:17 AM  
1 votes:
I don't have much genuine contempt for a whole lot of people on the right. I disagree with the lot of them, dislike most of them, but genuine contempt? Very few, Krauthammer being one of them.

He is the succinct embodiment of everything that is wrong with Conservative media today. Krauthammer is, by every measure, a highly intelligent, exceedingly well educated man who has broken rank with his party, particularly the religious right, on many issues. He could at least attempt to steer his party back into the real conservatism he's championed for most of his career but as a commentator for FOX News he seems much more intent on sticking his flaccid, non-functioning dick in that poor, poor chicken.

The problem with people like Krauthammer, and Jennifer Rubin is that they have absolutely no interest in having an honest discourse with their audience. Absolutely none. They're just parroting talking points, feeding a narrative that has absolutely no grounding in reality. It's particularly bad in Krauthammer's instance, because he is highly regarded as an intellectual heavyweight, and he uses this standing to validate the most moronic talking points for the FOX News audience instead of actually having an honest discussion. It's selling out, in a way.

And this whopper just sort of confirms it. Krauthammer is Jewish, born in New York and raised in Canada; he feels no kinship to the Civil War. He just said that shiat because he knows the average FOX News viewer is pretty pink around the collar and would react to it.
2012-11-30 09:17:31 AM  
1 votes:

Macular Degenerate: Awesome, so hopefully the death toll will be just as large. Personally, I believe the best thing for this country would be to take 750,000 wingnut conservatives out behind the barn with a shotgun. The executions start tonight.


You should really dial that shiat back.
2012-11-30 09:14:46 AM  
1 votes:

keylock71:

Krauthammer's right in one way. The GOP is like the Confederacy... Beaten, on the wrong side of history, and in no position to make demands.


I find it offensive that modern day Republicans would dare to favorably compare the party of Lincoln to the Confederacy. that aside, you are correct - the GOP is in no position to make demands of any sort. the Democrats have been rather gracious to the Republican party. they could do far more damage to the GOP agenda if they pushed harder....but all things considered the Dems have been pretty good about the whole thing. The GOP have taken the term 'sore loser' to new, never before seen depths of rage and despair.
2012-11-30 09:12:34 AM  
1 votes:

you have pee hands: ghall3: "Republicans won the House" I hate how they keep falling back on this. It should be completely obvious to EVERYONE that this is because they rigged it. The Dems won 50.2% of the vote for the house compared with 49.7% for the GOP. Now this is not a huge margin but considering the GOP ended up with 51.4% of the seats compared with 44.8% for the Dems, something is wrong.

But of course the media will never call the GOP out on this when they bring it up because they have to be "fair and balanced".

We are farked

It's not exactly rigged. Everyone keeps calling this gerrymandering without looking at how exactly it happened. PA is a great example. The democrats took a majority of the votes but only 6/18 house seats - because they won by giant majorities in Philadelphia and lost by slimmer margins across most of the rest of the state. Should every district have a long tendril into Philly to split up heavy Democratic majority from the metro area across the rest of the state's districts? That would end up with a ridiculous looking map of districts. The same pattern - Democratic supermajority in urban areas and smaller republican majorities in rural areas - played out in many places across the country. There are very few districts Republicans win with the 80%+ majorities Democrats take in the cities. It's not exactly a conspiracy, just a natural consequence of a system where winning by 1% is worth the same as winning by 40%. The only way around it would to switch to a nationwide vote and a system or proportional representation.


There is supposed to be roughly similar constituent-to-representative ratios. The solution is not to draw more nutty looking districts, but to make more districts in highly populated areas and larger (ie. fewer) districts in the rural areas. This is actually how it is, but suburban districts are the ones that are drawn funny to extend out to more rural areas to tip the scales towards the GOP.

Take a look at my district in Pa (6th congressional district). Notice how it outlines, but excludes all of Norristown and has an arm that extends up towards the Lehigh valley. Holy farking Christ!

upload.wikimedia.org
2012-11-30 09:12:16 AM  
1 votes:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1865RELee-surrender.asp

Introductory Note

The following letters exchanged by Generals Grant and Lee give the terms under which the latter surrendered his army and practically brought to a close the War of Secession.

From U.S. Grant To R.E. Lee

Appomattox Court-House, Virginia April 9, 1865.

General: In accordance with the substance of my letter to you of the 8th instant, I propose to receive the surrender of the army of Northern Virginia on the following terms, to wit: Rolls of all the officers and men to be made in duplicate, one copy to be given to an officer to be designated by me, the other to be retained by such officer or officers as you may designate. The officers to give their individual paroles not to take up arms against the government of the United States until properly exchanged; and each company or regimental commander to sign a like parole for the men of their commands. The arms, artillery, and public property to be parked and stacked, and turned over to the officers appointed by me to receive them. This will not embrace the side-arms of the officers nor their private horses or baggage. This done, each officer and man will be allowed to return to his home, not to be disturbed by United States authority so long as they observe their paroles and the laws in force where they may reside.

U.S. Grant, Lieutenant-General. General R. E. Lee.

From R.E. Lee To U.S. Grant

Head-Quarters, Army of Northern Virginia April 9, 1865.

General: I received your letter of this date containing the terms of the surrender of the army of Northern Virginia, as proposed by you. As they are substantially the same as those expressed in your letter of the 8th instant, they are accepted. I will proceed to designate the proper officers to carry the stipulations into effect.

R. E. Lee, General. Lieutenant-General U.S. Grant.
2012-11-30 09:12:09 AM  
1 votes:

Buffalo77: Subby be intellectually honest about it. CK did not say what you have him quoted as saying.


CK: "It's not just a bad deal, this is really an insulting deal... Robert E. Lee was offered easier terms at Appomattox and he lost the Civil War."

SUBBY: "We got a better deal when we lost in the Civil War"

There are the two quotes. Now, while I have often posted my frustration with headlines using incorrect quotes (really, people, stop it), and I understand subby used the word "we" here, what about it isn't at least in the ball park? Krauthammer is suggesting the Republicans are being treated like they lost a war and owe all sorts of concessions. In reality, Obama offered a combination of cuts and the revocation of TEMPORARY tax cuts that he already extended once.

If you want a good analogy, it's like arguing with a kid about his bedtime. He usually goes down at 7pm, but you let him stay up until 8. Now you're telling him it's time for bed and he's screaming that it is completely unfair, and he'll only go along with it if you give him candy. For the record, the republicans are the child having the tantrum in this analogy. They will stay awake screaming and making life miserable for themselves and everyone else just because they didn't get their way 100% of the time.
2012-11-30 09:11:20 AM  
1 votes:

Corvus: So what is the republican purposal?


Tax cuts for the wealthy, increased military spending, and cuts to Medicare and Social Security. Same as it always is.
2012-11-30 09:10:29 AM  
1 votes:
I just wish these media outlets would send him and other mouthpieces from both sides a message. Krauthammer proclaims that there are no cuts in the Dem proposal when there clearly are substantial cuts. He ought to be told by all the TV panels he'll undoubtedly be on that someone who is so careless with the facts (because of either partisanship or stupidity) is no longer welcome to express his views on air. Of course, it'll never happen, but it's nice to think about.
2012-11-30 09:09:08 AM  
1 votes:
"We got a better deal when we lost in the Civil War"

inigomontoya.jpg

IIRC, the Republicans won that war. Is the time machine in action again? We're gonna wear that poor thing out.
2012-11-30 09:02:57 AM  
1 votes:
We = racists?
Conservative = Confederate?

Where's he going with this?
2012-11-30 09:02:17 AM  
1 votes:

Buffalo77: You want to discuss issues, then fine.

Subby be intellectually honest about it. CK did not say what you have him quoted as saying.

So it make you look like a douche instead ofark, and the rest of you IT drones.


Welcometofark.jpg
2012-11-30 09:01:50 AM  
1 votes:

ghall3: "Republicans won the House" I hate how they keep falling back on this. It should be completely obvious to EVERYONE that this is because they rigged it. The Dems won 50.2% of the vote for the house compared with 49.7% for the GOP. Now this is not a huge margin but considering the GOP ended up with 51.4% of the seats compared with 44.8% for the Dems, something is wrong.

But of course the media will never call the GOP out on this when they bring it up because they have to be "fair and balanced".

We are farked


It's not exactly rigged. Everyone keeps calling this gerrymandering without looking at how exactly it happened. PA is a great example. The democrats took a majority of the votes but only 6/18 house seats - because they won by giant majorities in Philadelphia and lost by slimmer margins across most of the rest of the state. Should every district have a long tendril into Philly to split up heavy Democratic majority from the metro area across the rest of the state's districts? That would end up with a ridiculous looking map of districts. The same pattern - Democratic supermajority in urban areas and smaller republican majorities in rural areas - played out in many places across the country. There are very few districts Republicans win with the 80%+ majorities Democrats take in the cities. It's not exactly a conspiracy, just a natural consequence of a system where winning by 1% is worth the same as winning by 40%. The only way around it would to switch to a nationwide vote and a system or proportional representation.
2012-11-30 09:00:50 AM  
1 votes:

badhatharry: The Democrats know they make any demands that they want.


Kinda like demanding zero new revenues? Sine the Democrats know that the Republicans are going to start from a position of zero compromise, they are starting from a similar position...'give us everything we want' and see how that 'no compromise' thing works out.

Because the Democrats tried the compromise thing earlier last year when we get Boehner 98% of what he wanted and the GOP STILL would not compromise a lousy 2%. Everybody remembers that and THAT is why the GOP will be blamed if there is no compromise this time around.
2012-11-30 08:59:26 AM  
1 votes:

yeegrek: Who's "we", homeboy?

Because a New York born, Quebec and Boston educated, physically handicapped Jewish man would have been sooooooo welcome in the Confederacy.


I think all conservatives pine for the confederacy now,which shows how far to the right they've marched.
2012-11-30 08:56:26 AM  
1 votes:

badhatharry: The Democrats know they make any demands that they want. They know the Republicans will be blamed no matter what happens. That's what happens when you don't have a free press.

/analogies...how do they work?


Your claim is interesting, but it might be more credible were it not issued by an unrepentant liar.
2012-11-30 08:53:46 AM  
1 votes:
You want to discuss issues, then fine.

Subby be intellectually honest about it. CK did not say what you have him quoted as saying.

So it make you look like a douche instead ofark, and the rest of you IT drones.
2012-11-30 08:50:53 AM  
1 votes:
Ugh, I need to stop taking quotes in headlines at face value. Of course, what does it say about Krauthammer that I didn't think for a second that it was a false quote?
2012-11-30 08:49:29 AM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Statistically, the last person of age in the confederacy (i.e. a full citizen) would have died before the transcontinental railroad was even complete.


Huh? The Transcontinental railroad was completed in 1869, almost exactly 4 years after the end of the Confederacy.
2012-11-30 08:46:24 AM  
1 votes:
Yeah, I'm also going with "who the fark is 'we', jackass?"

Statistically, the last person of age in the confederacy (i.e. a full citizen) would have died before the transcontinental railroad was even complete. The last person with any historical ties to it whatsoever (reconstruction) would have died before we dropped a particularly historical bomb on Japan.

Since WW2, there has been no meaningful cultural, economic, or transportation barrier between the northern and southern US. Or at least none based around the civil war, we did arbitrarily manufacture some new ones based on demography before economic intergrowth killed those too and made it so basically no one cares.

Basically, at this point the most dyed-in-the-wool southerner has no greater cultural claim to Lee than a seventh generation Pennsylvania Quaker.
2012-11-30 08:42:51 AM  
1 votes:
What a carpetbagger might look like.
2012-11-30 08:41:20 AM  
1 votes:
Still butthurt about that one, eh?
2012-11-30 08:38:38 AM  
1 votes:
Krauthamer went on to note that despite numerous opportunities to change, President Obama remains unrepentantly black.

/History's. Greatest. Monster.
2012-11-30 08:38:29 AM  
1 votes:
Was it over when the paraplegic syndicated columnists lost the Civil War?
2012-11-30 08:35:18 AM  
1 votes:

yeegrek: Who's "we", homeboy?

Because a New York born, Quebec and Boston educated, physically handicapped Jewish man would have been sooooooo welcome in the Confederacy.


Now, this is funny
2012-11-30 08:32:44 AM  
1 votes:
Guess we don't have a deal. Over the cliff we go, thanks to bloviating jackasses like this guy.
 
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