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(ABC 15)   Two high school snowflakes were forced to hold hands in front of their classmates as punishment for fighting and now, it's getting criticism   (abc15.com) divider line 35
    More: Amusing, hand holding, high schools, ROTC, punishments  
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11786 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2012 at 4:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-30 04:35:45 AM
8 votes:
1-They volunteered.
2-If it was so humiliating, take punitive action on the homosexual slurs from the other students.
3-That is life. Shielding youth from name calling, does not help. Teach them to deal with it.
2012-11-30 04:32:05 AM
5 votes:
You act like children, you should be treated like children
2012-11-30 05:32:30 AM
4 votes:

John_David_Stutts: They used to take us down to the gym at lunchtime and strap the boxing gloves on us when we were caught fighting. The entire student body, faculty, and administration would come watch a couple of us try to knock each others blocks off. When it was over we'd try and lift our tired arms and shake hands and that would be the end of it. Win or lose it was kind of humiliating to be part of a public battle, but it was better than the alternate punishment of a three day suspension. Punishment is not supposed to be easy. If it were, they'd have called it something else.

/and there was no long term damage
//unless you count cranial injuries maybe


That sounds incredibly in favor of the instigator. You bully on a fellow kid, he defends himself(like he should) and you are granted the reward with beating him up, for the second time, but with an audience.
2012-11-30 04:50:45 AM
4 votes:
Headline: 2 Mesa students forced to hold hands

Article: 2 Mesa students given the option to hold hands
2012-11-30 05:22:40 AM
3 votes:
They used to take us down to the gym at lunchtime and strap the boxing gloves on us when we were caught fighting. The entire student body, faculty, and administration would come watch a couple of us try to knock each others blocks off. When it was over we'd try and lift our tired arms and shake hands and that would be the end of it. Win or lose it was kind of humiliating to be part of a public battle, but it was better than the alternate punishment of a three day suspension. Punishment is not supposed to be easy. If it were, they'd have called it something else.

/and there was no long term damage
//unless you count cranial injuries maybe
2012-11-30 04:38:32 AM
3 votes:
idonthaveaproblemwiththis.jpg
2012-11-30 12:14:57 AM
3 votes:

Pocket Ninja: See, here's the problem. Zero-tolerance, no-interpretation, strict-penalty rules are utterly stupid and reflect a complete idiocy within the system whenever they end up being seriously considered.

But that's the problem. When school administrators are given responsibility for "creative problem solving," they come up with shiat like this. So the system's already there.


Positions of power attract the people least suited to hold power. Similar phenomenon with positions requiring judgement. So, years of failed judgement led to zero-tolerance policies.

fwiw -I dont mind this type of practice where two choices are offered.
2012-11-30 12:10:22 AM
3 votes:
A few others went as far as to say it sent a negative message to gay students because it portrayed hand-holding by two males to be embarrassing.

i.imgur.com
2012-11-30 08:41:21 PM
2 votes:
Many of you really, really don't get it. So, here's a take from this gay man, to show you why this is an extremely offensive course of action:

1) The message being sent is that being gay is an embarrassment. That 2 men holding hands is weird, deserving of derision. That is the exact message that leads to anti-gay bullying. Which leads to anti-gay suicides.

2) The message being sent is that doing something gay is a valid punishment. So not only is "acting" gay weird and comical, but it's also wrong. That reaffirms the attitudes that anti-gay bullies have.

3) The principal allowed these two students be verbally abused to the point a KID STAYED HOME from school to avoid the abuse, and did nothing. Now these two kids have become part of a NATIONAL topic. All because the principal's lack of common sense, and ignorance.

4) The principal allowed homophobic abuse sling from the mouths of these harassing students and did not call them out for their offensive language. Again, reaffirming a homophobic mentality, that harms LGBTQ children at this school and throughout this school district.

5) The principal did something completely out of line without thinking of the consequences. That shows a lack of decision making skills. A principal shouldn't so blatantly lack proper decision making skills and sense.


At the end of the day, people, stop being dense and saying this wasn't about homosexuality. It clearly was. It clearly was about this principal using homosexuality as a means to deride two children. That is appalling, and he needs to be fired.
2012-11-30 09:00:07 AM
2 votes:

James F. Campbell: That forcing two boys to hold hands as punishment is considered humiliating is in and of itself indicative of bigotry against homosexuality. That is the point that some of you seem to be missing.


My wife is Bi- has a gay best friend, and my sister is gay, so you know this statement isn't coming from some bigot:

Your statement is false and the sort of line of thinking that makes people hate liberals... This sort of statement is ignorant of human nature...

It's not forcing people to be gay or to even look gay... This situation would have been just as embarrassing had they been told to play with GI Joe toys with each other nicely while everyone stands around and points at them and laughs... It's making them do something together while everyone points and laughs that makes this situation embarrassing... It's the media spin on this situation that makes it seem like bigotry, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker...

This is a non-story spun to put controversy where there is none...

If holding hands is being gay, then you might want to tell the next group of guys standing and holding hands in a prayer circle... I'm sure they would like to know so they can come out of the closet...
2012-11-30 06:39:56 AM
2 votes:
they shouldn't let the kids take pics. but i feel the same way if you're out partying etcetera. glad everyone didn't carry a camera/phone when i was young, screw that.
HBK
2012-11-30 06:17:45 AM
2 votes:

wildlifer: At my high school if you where caught fighting, you had 2 choices:
1. Eat lunch together for a week, carrying each others books, and holding hands.
2. Senior football players take you and your new friend to the basement and let you box each other with 16 oz gloves for as long as you can.

/All boys Catholic school
// get caught smoking: smoke a Cuban
///RIP Fr. Tribou


All boys Catholic schools really were the best.

School was really self-policing in that manner. Kids respected most of the teachers. So if the teachers said to be quiet, you'd have the captain of the football or wrestling team saying "Shut up everybody!" I remember once a kid was being a real turd in class. The teacher (not a priest), said "okay guys, I'm going to shut the door and take a walk. When I come back, I would prefer it if he remained silent for the rest of class." Needless to say, that kid was quiet for the rest of the class and most of the semester.
2012-11-30 06:05:44 AM
2 votes:
At my high school if you where caught fighting, you had 2 choices:
1. Eat lunch together for a week, carrying each others books, and holding hands.
2. Senior football players take you and your new friend to the basement and let you box each other with 16 oz gloves for as long as you can.

/All boys Catholic school
// get caught smoking: smoke a Cuban
///RIP Fr. Tribou
2012-11-30 05:43:03 AM
2 votes:
Seriously? At my old high school if the two took it in good stride, and made a mockery out of it, they would've been revered by the student body.

Then again, people weren't beat-up for being gay at my school, so yeah.


/AFAIK, at least.
2012-11-30 05:38:57 AM
2 votes:
Personally, I figure it's better than suspension. In my day, the principal would have paddled both with a wooden paddle or have them paddle each other and the parents would be informed.

Today, that would get the principal tarred and feathered, ridden out of town on a rail, sued down to his underwear and loose his job as well as be damned in the national news.

The level of STUPID in the article by parents is annoying. Ridicule or direct action often is necessary to get a point through a teens thick skull.

In third or fourth grade, there was a class clown who was very disruptive and drove the teacher to distraction. Finally, having put up with it for months, she grabbed him, took some of that huge roll of drawing paper (like the left over rolls used in news papers) and snatched him up, turned the paper into a diaper, poked it on him over his cloths and made his wear it everywhere for the rest of the day.

She said if he was going to act like a baby, then he'd dress like one.

It kinda settled him down a whole lot after that.

Today, parents would demand that the teacher be taken out and shot and lawyers would be lining up at the school.

Us kids usually had other, more direct ways of dealing with harassment or disputes: a direct on punch in the mouth after school. Usually where no adults could see us. Occasionally there'd be some kid who'd start shiat, his victim would beat him to the ground and he'd pop up, too tired to fight but warn the kid it wasn't over.

Sometimes had had to get beaten down two or three times. I always suspected such kids were either more stubborn than mules or had the brains of a brick. Occasionally, one would pull a knife or use a rock and then get carted off to Reform School by the cops. We might read about them years later, after graduation, as they got arrested by the cops, or shot by someone or made jail their second home.

Intervention might have prevented that for those little psychopaths.
2012-11-30 05:38:46 AM
2 votes:
If we leave out the tendentious erotic angle, if that is possible nowadays, hand-holding does symbolize forgiveness. Do not shake hands with someone you do not want to forgive.
2012-11-30 04:19:58 AM
2 votes:
I'm imagining the Fark comments section from an alternate universe where the two students are girls. It's a fun thread.
2012-11-30 04:19:53 AM
2 votes:

impaler: Two East Valley high school students were forced to hold hands in front of their classmates as punishment for fighting. Now that punishment is drawing criticism.

The students at Westwood High in Mesa were apparently given the option to hold hands instead of being suspended.

At first I was like: "Ok, after fighting, they were giving the option of suspension, or holding hands - an act of friendship, bonding, getting past the disagreement... what's the big deal?"

"Kids were laughing at them and calling them names asking, 'are you gay,'"

Oh yeah. Homophobia. Forgot about that.


This has potential to upset so many people; it's beautiful.
2012-11-30 02:12:19 AM
2 votes:
Two East Valley high school students were forced to hold hands in front of their classmates as punishment for fighting. Now that punishment is drawing criticism.

The students at Westwood High in Mesa were apparently given the option to hold hands instead of being suspended.


At first I was like: "Ok, after fighting, they were giving the option of suspension, or holding hands - an act of friendship, bonding, getting past the disagreement... what's the big deal?"

"Kids were laughing at them and calling them names asking, 'are you gay,'"


Oh yeah. Homophobia. Forgot about that.
2012-11-30 11:22:14 AM
1 votes:
A few others went as far as to say it sent a negative message to gay students because it portrayed hand-holding by two males to be embarrassing.

But this was a choice on the part of the two boys, unlike being gay.

/teachable moment
2012-11-30 11:19:19 AM
1 votes:

Frederick: Pocket Ninja: See, here's the problem. Zero-tolerance, no-interpretation, strict-penalty rules are utterly stupid and reflect a complete idiocy within the system whenever they end up being seriously considered.

But that's the problem. When school administrators are given responsibility for "creative problem solving," they come up with shiat like this. So the system's already there.

Positions of power attract the people least suited to hold power. Similar phenomenon with positions requiring judgement. So, years of failed judgement led to zero-tolerance policies.

fwiw -I dont mind this type of practice where two choices are offered.


Socrates said, in Plato's Republic, that the most fit to lead would never want the job - the least fit to lead are those who clamour (pay money, anyone?) for the position. Think of how much any elected official pays to secure the position. The truly fit would be hard-pressed to take that same job and would do it solely for altruism.
2012-11-30 09:57:01 AM
1 votes:

CeroX: James F. Campbell: That forcing two boys to hold hands as punishment is considered humiliating is in and of itself indicative of bigotry against homosexuality. That is the point that some of you seem to be missing.

My wife is Bi- has a gay best friend, and my sister is gay, so you know this statement isn't coming from some bigot:

Your statement is false and the sort of line of thinking that makes people hate liberals... This sort of statement is ignorant of human nature...

It's not forcing people to be gay or to even look gay... This situation would have been just as embarrassing had they been told to play with GI Joe toys with each other nicely while everyone stands around and points at them and laughs... It's making them do something together while everyone points and laughs that makes this situation embarrassing... It's the media spin on this situation that makes it seem like bigotry, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker...

This is a non-story spun to put controversy where there is none...

If holding hands is being gay, then you might want to tell the next group of guys standing and holding hands in a prayer circle... I'm sure they would like to know so they can come out of the closet...


Excellent point.

I find it interesting that neither of these boys was apparently embarrassed about the complete lack of self-control demonstrated by getting into a fight in the first place but, by choosing a punishment that allowed them to avoid suspension with the consequence that it brought a few minutes of haranguing from fellow students, is too humiliating to bear.
2012-11-30 09:18:29 AM
1 votes:
I'm confused by all of the people who instantly assumed the fight was due to bullying. Just because its high school doesn't mean that some poor little guy had finally had enough and fought back. They could have been friends who started arguing over anything (girls, sports, whatever) and it escalated into a fist fight. Teenage boys will fight over some really stupid shiat, that has absolutely nothing to do with being bullied. Just too much farking testosterone.
2012-11-30 09:17:19 AM
1 votes:
geez .. from some of the reactions in here you would think the teacher asked them to wrap dongs together.

its hands people. you wont give teachers the authority to truely punish this is what they have to work with. So because you are a horrible parent doesnt mean your little snowflake makes it through life without a few life lessons along the way.
2012-11-30 08:38:29 AM
1 votes:
That forcing two boys to hold hands as punishment is considered humiliating is in and of itself indicative of bigotry against homosexuality. That is the point that some of you seem to be missing.
2012-11-30 07:51:16 AM
1 votes:

riverwalk barfly: sexorcisst: 1-They volunteered.
2-If it was so humiliating, take punitive action on the homosexual slurs from the other students.
3-That is life. Shielding youth from name calling, does not help. Teach them to deal with it.

Sure. Your boss gives you a choice - you are suspended without pay or you can volunteer to hold hands with your coworker that you were arguing with.


I'd take the hand holding and thank him for the chance not to be suspended.
2012-11-30 07:13:01 AM
1 votes:
Once again, the "omg that could be seen as teh ghey" trumps intentions and logic that holding hands, peacefully, with your enemy, is a better solution to fighting than making you both not come to school for a few days, so you can gun each other down outside of school property...

Of course the latter is what the school district would preferred, their hands would be clean.
2012-11-30 06:41:15 AM
1 votes:
Hand holding, meh. Back in my day if you were caught fighting you and the others had to go ass to ass in front of the whole school. Young men, women, gangs, it didn't matter. The point was you had to show a new found sense of intimacy and forgiveness, and you had better do it with a hard slapping sound and some visible froth or you'd just have to try again the next day. That's the way it was, and we liked it.
2012-11-30 06:20:47 AM
1 votes:

sexorcisst: John_David_Stutts: They used to take us down to the gym at lunchtime and strap the boxing gloves on us when we were caught fighting. The entire student body, faculty, and administration would come watch a couple of us try to knock each others blocks off. When it was over we'd try and lift our tired arms and shake hands and that would be the end of it. Win or lose it was kind of humiliating to be part of a public battle, but it was better than the alternate punishment of a three day suspension. Punishment is not supposed to be easy. If it were, they'd have called it something else.

/and there was no long term damage
//unless you count cranial injuries maybe

That sounds incredibly in favor of the instigator. You bully on a fellow kid, he defends himself(like he should) and you are granted the reward with beating him up, for the second time, but with an audience.


Yes, I see what you are saying, but it always seemed to be a couple of knuckleheads about the same age and size (turns out they were usually classmates or friends) involved as I recall. They both had to be willing to box or it was dealt with in another manor. Bullying wasn't really an issue at my school in those days either.
2012-11-30 06:00:15 AM
1 votes:
I bet it sounded like the better option at first but humiliation(if they actually felt that way) is a pretty tough one to swallow at a young age.
HBK
2012-11-30 05:52:50 AM
1 votes:

video man: Seriously? At my old high school if the two took it in good stride, and made a mockery out of it, they would've been revered by the student body.

Then again, people weren't beat-up for being gay at my school, so yeah.


/AFAIK, at least.


I was just thinking that. If I were those kids, I'd be grinning from ear to ear at how ridiculous the whole thing was, not hiding my head in shame. But I guess I went to a different kind of high school.

These two have bonded over something now and probably won't want to fight again. I think it works.

I was given an option in high school of detention or eating an entire raw habanero in front of the class with no water. I ate the pepper, no problem. The problem arose when I forgot to wash my hands, then had to take a piss.
2012-11-30 05:31:39 AM
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: Headline: 2 Mesa students forced to hold hands

Article: 2 Mesa students given the option to hold hands


Yeah, it's not like the other option was to be suspended...Wait a minute - How bad is a suspension anyway? Isn't that like a short vacation?

Does it go on your "permanent record"? What if one of the students had wanted to hold hands but the other student didn't?

One thing that always pissed me off about getting detention in school was that I would be punished 3 times worse at home than the actual detention while most other kids parents seemed to think the school's punishment was enough.
2012-11-30 04:31:16 AM
1 votes:
dl.dropbox.com
2012-11-30 03:50:49 AM
1 votes:

styckx: A few others went as far as to say it sent a negative message to gay students because it portrayed hand-holding by two males to be embarrassing.


They were wrestling!

img15.imageshack.us 

Love the IAWSIP crew for getting that shot.
2012-11-29 11:55:40 PM
1 votes:
See, here's the problem. Zero-tolerance, no-interpretation, strict-penalty rules are utterly stupid and reflect a complete idiocy within the system whenever they end up being seriously considered.

But that's the problem. When school administrators are given responsibility for "creative problem solving," they come up with shiat like this. So the system's already there.
 
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