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(NPR)   Raising the Medicare age in order to cut costs actually makes it more expensive   (npr.org) divider line 120
    More: Ironic, Medicare, opportunity costs, entitlement reform, health insurance exchanges, Kaiser Family Foundation  
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2594 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Nov 2012 at 6:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-29 04:49:39 PM  
You know the one thing that will make healthcare affordable? Single-payer.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-29 04:53:02 PM  
Raising the Medicare age in order to cut costs actually makes it more expensive

Antecedent of "it" is Medicare. According to TFA the cost per old person goes up but the total cost of Medicare goes down. What becomes more expensive is general health care because young people are required to subsidize even more old people.
 
2012-11-29 05:12:17 PM  

One problem Republicans are confronting is that biggest, easiest Medicare savings come from strengthening, not weakening, the program.

- Brian Beutler (@brianbeutler) November 29, 2012
 
2012-11-29 05:28:19 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-29 05:58:36 PM  
Duh, Math is science and we know how much the GOP likes science.
 
2012-11-29 06:25:09 PM  

ZAZ: What becomes more expensive is general health care because young people are required to subsidize even more old people.


Same number of old people, less efficient system. We're subsidizing 'em whether it's through taxes for Medicare or premiums for insurance. It's just that insurance companies charge more (yes, that's a vast oversimplification, wanna fight about it?).
 
2012-11-29 06:30:16 PM  
Someone remind me: is the Medicare payroll tax subject to the $110k cap like the Social Security tax?
 
2012-11-29 06:31:04 PM  

dahmers love zombie: You know the one thing that will make healthcare affordable? Single-payer.


You literally just finished reading an article about how nothing in healthcare is as straight forward as it seems....
 
2012-11-29 06:31:29 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Same number of old people, less efficient system. We're subsidizing 'em whether it's through taxes for Medicare or premiums for insurance

or Medicaid

Same with SS. You can raise the age all you want but there will still be old people who can't work at all or have to be retrained for a low stress job or survive with a much lower greeter type pay.
 
2012-11-29 06:34:06 PM  
By that logic it would be incredibly cheaper if the Medicare age were lowered to 18.
 
2012-11-29 06:34:51 PM  
Hmm why is it I bet if they let everyone buy into medicare if they wanted I bet that would save the government money on medicare. More healthier people buying in would reduce the overall costs costing the government less for old people. But for some reason I think the GOP would be against those savings.

Putting ideological purity over helping the US.
 
2012-11-29 06:35:57 PM  
www.motherjones.com
 
2012-11-29 06:36:04 PM  

Guelph35: By that logic it would be incredibly cheaper if the Medicare age were lowered to 18.


Yep. it would. If we let 18 years olds in it would reduce costs. That's true for private insurance so why do you think that wouldn't be the case for a government run program?
 
2012-11-29 06:42:07 PM  
Because the youngest on Medicare almost certainty have the lowest expenses? Shocking. But then again, when was the last time the GOP had an economic idea within shouting distance of right?
 
2012-11-29 06:45:37 PM  

Solon Isonomia: Someone remind me: is the Medicare payroll tax subject to the $110k cap like the Social Security tax?


No limit.
 
2012-11-29 06:45:43 PM  

oldass31: dahmers love zombie: You know the one thing that will make healthcare affordable? Single-payer.

You literally just finished reading an article about how nothing in healthcare is as straight forward as it seems....


Wait - I thought this was Fark.
 
2012-11-29 06:47:59 PM  

GAT_00: Because the youngest on Medicare almost certainty have the lowest expenses? Shocking. But then again, when was the last time the GOP had an economic idea within shouting distance of right?


Lincoln?
 
2012-11-29 06:49:10 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: Solon Isonomia: Someone remind me: is the Medicare payroll tax subject to the $110k cap like the Social Security tax?

No limit.


Bad idea. Then it becomes a welfare program funded by a general tax rather than an insurance program funded by premiums bearing a rational relationship to expected benefits, and is therefore politically extremely vulnerable. Besides, it's not necessary. It would take a relatively small increase in the cap to solve our problems for a very, very long time.

Same is true in spades of Social Security.
 
2012-11-29 06:49:47 PM  

BMulligan: Three Crooked Squirrels: Solon Isonomia: Someone remind me: is the Medicare payroll tax subject to the $110k cap like the Social Security tax?

No limit.

Bad idea. Then it becomes a welfare program funded by a general tax rather than an insurance program funded by premiums bearing a rational relationship to expected benefits, and is therefore politically extremely vulnerable. Besides, it's not necessary. It would take a relatively small increase in the cap to solve our problems for a very, very long time.

Same is true in spades of Social Security.


Wait - strike that. I'm an idiot.
 
2012-11-29 06:53:25 PM  
It's not just that younger people have fewer costs than older people. Raising the eligibility age also raises costs in other ways.

1. Raising the eligibility age means many people without insurance have to wait even longer without insurance and they thus delay needed doctor visits, medications, and procedures.
2. These delays mean that their health is much worse by the time they finally become eligible for medicare.
3. These more severe health problems mean that they are much more expensive for medicare to cover than if they had just been on medicare all along and thus gotten better preventative care.
 
2012-11-29 06:57:11 PM  

dahmers love zombie: You know the one thing that will make healthcare affordable? Single-payer.


I really think that's Obummer's long game plan. A couple more decades of rising insurance costs and it will become the ONLY viable option.

Barry knows damn good and well that the right wing solution to the problem won't work, and they know it too.
 
2012-11-29 07:00:01 PM  
Right now, you are old and infirm according to medicare at 65. However, anyone who retires at 65 to collect social security has jumped the gun and will get less than full retirement.
 
2012-11-29 07:00:37 PM  

dahmers love zombie: You know the one thing that will make healthcare affordable? Single-payer.



People need to decide if they want to spend money on premiums to bolster insurance CEO bonuses or if they want good healthcare.

Doctors deserve their money. Ratfarking paper pushing middlemen deserve a cock.
 
2012-11-29 07:00:49 PM  

Guelph35: By that logic it would be incredibly cheaper if the Medicare age were lowered to 18.


Umm yes, it WOULD be cheaper. Did you not read the article?

Right now, Medicare is taking care of the most expensive demographic, the old. The insurance companies are lucky, they don't have to cover the old. So the price you're paying for insurance is cheaper than it would be if the insurance companies had to cover the old. If you increase the age requirement of Medicare, then that means the insurance companies would have to cover more of the older people that don't qualify for Medicare yet... and older people require more medical care, which means your insurance costs would go up.

But Medicare itself would be more expensive as well. Because if they're taking care of the extremely old and letting insurance companies deal with the 'younger' seniors (ie 65s), the younger seniors who are healthier than the older seniors, costs per person will go up.
 
2012-11-29 07:02:51 PM  
"Let it float up another year or so over the next 30 years, adjust Medicare from 65 to 67."

Raising by two years over three decades? Obviously, this financial "cliff" is more of a small downhill slope.

It's all smoke and mirrors, and we're all being conned.
 
2012-11-29 07:05:18 PM  

Great_Milenko: "Let it float up another year or so over the next 30 years, adjust Medicare from 65 to 67."

Raising by two years over three decades? Obviously, this financial "cliff" is more of a small downhill slope.

It's all smoke and mirrors, and we're all being conned.


Oh for Christ's sake. You're not "being conned" you drama queen, you just keep electing barely-literate retards to Congress.
 
2012-11-29 07:07:43 PM  

Guelph35: By that logic it would be incredibly cheaper if the Medicare age were lowered to 18.


It should be lowered to 0. Then we'll get universal health/single payer (whatever you want to call it), and it will be cheaper.
 
2012-11-29 07:08:54 PM  

MacEnvy: Great_Milenko: "Let it float up another year or so over the next 30 years, adjust Medicare from 65 to 67."

Raising by two years over three decades? Obviously, this financial "cliff" is more of a small downhill slope.

It's all smoke and mirrors, and we're all being conned.

Oh for Christ's sake. You're not "being conned" you drama queen, you just keep electing barely-literate retards to Congress.


Well the OMG we are all going to die this year unless we raise the medicare age 30 years from now makes no farking sense.

It's an excuse to make cuts they want but it has nothing to do with the actual so called problem.
 
2012-11-29 07:11:40 PM  
I want free cookies, too. I think Obama should give us all free cookies. And unicorn farts. Those should be unlimited and free as well!
 
2012-11-29 07:15:16 PM  

MrHappyRotter: I want free cookies, too. I think Obama should give us all free cookies. And unicorn farts. Those should be unlimited and free as well!


Whiny little butthurt posts like this are like unicorn farts for us Liberals. They smell like Conservative failure. Thank you.
 
2012-11-29 07:19:31 PM  

MrHappyRotter: I want free cookies, too. I think Obama should give us all free cookies. And unicorn farts. Those should be unlimited and free as well!


No one is claiming medicare or universal health is free. It's just that it will be so much cheaper than paying for competing insurance companies. We pay more than twice per capita than the next most expensive health care system in the world (Switzerland), yet we're somewhere around 39th in the world in well being (based on metrics such as life expectancy, frequency of doctor visits, etc.). In other words, we're not getting much bang for the buck. We have two options: increase the bang or decrease the buck. Universal health will dramatically decrease the buck, and would probably help increase the bang at the same time.
 
2012-11-29 07:19:38 PM  

MrHappyRotter: I want free cookies, too. I think Obama should give us all free cookies. And unicorn farts. Those should be unlimited and free as well!


So you are upset because helping more people would make things cheaper for everyone?
 
2012-11-29 07:21:08 PM  
Sounds like a problem with ACA, not raising the age for Medicare.
 
2012-11-29 07:21:32 PM  

MrHappyRotter: I want free cookies, too. I think Obama should give us all free cookies. And unicorn farts. Those should be unlimited and free as well!


Translation:
The reality that these social programs work to maintain costs clash with my world view so let me throw a tantrum by making a strawman argument that no one is actually making.
 
2012-11-29 07:22:45 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Sounds like a problem with ACA, not raising the age for Medicare.


Facepalm.

This was true before ADA. This was true with private insurance companies. So is that a fault with those too?

Or just when it's convenient for your narrative?
 
2012-11-29 07:25:57 PM  

ZAZ: Raising the Medicare age in order to cut costs actually makes it more expensive

Antecedent of "it" is Medicare. According to TFA the cost per old person goes up but the total cost of Medicare goes down. What becomes more expensive is general health care because young people are required to subsidize even more old people.


Thanks for being able to read. That was my take as well. Subby, on the other hand...
 
2012-11-29 07:26:30 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Sounds like a problem with ACA, not raising the age for Medicare.


MrHappyRotter: I want free cookies, too. I think Obama should give us all free cookies. And unicorn farts. Those should be unlimited and free as well!


Isn't it amazing how upset Right wingers get when they find out helping more people can save you money?

It's proof they are not against the spending money, they are against the helping people.
 
2012-11-29 07:27:51 PM  

MFAWG: dahmers love zombie: You know the one thing that will make healthcare affordable? Single-payer.

I really think that's Obummer's long game plan. A couple more decades of rising insurance costs and it will become the ONLY viable option.

Barry knows damn good and well that the right wing solution to the problem won't work, and they know it too.


The insurance companies have thousands of lobbyists. Now that they have guaranteed subsidies for millions of Americans, they can spend even more money on lobbyists. We'll never have single payer in this country.
 
2012-11-29 07:32:08 PM  
Cost: 1 stitch.
Benefit: Saves 8 stitches later.

Republicans whose benefactors each have millions of stitches: Well, we don't have enough stitches for everyone! Why should the stitch-makers have to subsidize the lazies who "need" them?

...result: 9 stitches for everyone.
 
2012-11-29 07:32:41 PM  
I think I got this one from a bioethicist...

The two groups we pay the most to take care of are the least economically valuable. The child with leukemia that receives a hundred thousand dollars worth of treatment won't repay the sunk costs for 20 years, and at any realistic discount rate probably won't repay the full value in their lifetime. The 85 year old senior that gets a $20k hip replacement is no longer an economic producer.

Meanwhile, we take young adults that we've sunk two decades of resources into and send them to get blown up.

The young adult should be the one to receive the most help, to get educated and become an economic producer. That way they can afford to fund their retirement healthcare properly.

Alas, economics suck. Well, economics are right for a population of rational actors and humans suck.
 
2012-11-29 07:36:01 PM  

GAT_00: Because the youngest on Medicare almost certainty have the lowest expenses? Shocking. But then again, when was the last time the GOP had an economic idea within shouting distance of right?


It depends on what you mean by "right." The GOP has always been right.
 
2012-11-29 07:37:28 PM  

Corvus: Debeo Summa Credo: Sounds like a problem with ACA, not raising the age for Medicare.

Facepalm.

This was true before ADA. This was true with private insurance companies. So is that a fault with those too?

Or just when it's convenient for your narrative?


The last one.
 
2012-11-29 07:44:36 PM  

GAT_00: Because the youngest on Medicare almost certainty have the lowest expenses? Shocking. But then again, when was the last time the GOP had an economic idea within shouting distance of right?


Ask 0bama.
He thought it was a good idea to extend the Bush tax cuts.
 
2012-11-29 07:45:04 PM  
Death Panels could fix that
 
2012-11-29 07:47:02 PM  
Honestly, the best thing you can do for the elderly is have a sincere end-of-life talk and get their wishes documented. For the average person, you will incur 95% of your lifetime medical expenses in the last three years of your life. My grandfather got many hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe even millions of dollars, worth of care in the last few years of his life - after dementia had taken away any ability to communicate with anyone else; he spent those years barely aware of any of his surroundings. I honestly believe, had he been asked before his illness, he would never have wanted that. I can't believe that kind of life would have been desirable to him, or anyone.

I think, rather, that many people are kept alive long after the point where there is no hope for a meaningful life, not because it's their wish, but because their family cannot let go, or feels that others would judge them if they let go. Having the person's wishes on file would enable family members to truly know what the person would wish, and to not exceed what the person would have wanted.

No matter how you adjust payment, there's not a sustainable path when we spend such a massive amount of money on slowing down death.
 
2012-11-29 07:47:27 PM  
Well, you allowed the private insurers to offload the most expensive care onto the public.

What did you expect when the marginally more healthy folks in the 65-67 range get kicked off and the risk pool dynamics get shifted so their are even more people that cost more to care for and less people that don't need as much care to cover those sicker people's care?

//Hope that makes sense.
 
2012-11-29 07:51:25 PM  
Nobody wants to hire someone over 60 now. The problem is likely to be substantially worse by the time Im 60. Unemployment is high because of globalization and technology advances which are eliminating many occupations. These trends are only going to continue. What to do with old people is a serious damn problem.
 
2012-11-29 07:52:56 PM  
This is why raising the minimum age, AND giving limits to care are the ONLY way to stem the bloating costs of Medicare.

It's a harsh truth, but it's the only way to save the program. You know, short of people just farking like rabbits with another impending baby-boom (which is highly unlikely).
 
2012-11-29 07:54:13 PM  

liverleef: Nobody wants to hire someone over 60 now. The problem is likely to be substantially worse by the time Im 60.


wut?

Do you think more companies were hiring people over 60 say 20 or 30 years ago?

I doubt it.

The problem will only be worse if we keep having an anti-business, anti-success, class warfare attitude running parts of the government.
 
2012-11-29 07:56:15 PM  

liverleef: Nobody wants to hire someone over 60 now. The problem is likely to be substantially worse by the time Im 60. Unemployment is high because of globalization and technology advances which are eliminating many occupations. These trends are only going to continue. What to do with old people is a serious damn problem.


I feel the same way.
 
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