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(Huffington Post)   Good news for all you laid off Hostess employees, the top executives bonuses totaling up to $1.8 million will most likely to be approved by a judge today   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 321
    More: Asinine, twinkies, white-breads, Ho Hos, liquidation, ding dongs, blueberries  
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7005 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Nov 2012 at 2:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-29 02:51:50 PM
skullkrusher

no you don't, brah

yes I do, brah
 
2012-11-29 02:51:52 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Makh: They just couldn't compete in this economy. Little Debbie is still selling cloud cakes. Link

Pfft! No one bakes a cake as tasty as Tastykake.


I clicked on the link expecting:
Lazy town featuring lil jon NSFW 
 
2012-11-29 02:51:57 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I knew I had a drinking problem when I woke up to find a human-sized turd in the cat's litter box.


I've always wanted to pull that prank, but just never got around to it. Life goes by so fast once you have a job and a house and all the other responsibilities. It's one of my few regrets in life.
 
2012-11-29 02:52:01 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: raerae1980: That is BS. Borders Execs tried persuading the judge in our bankruptcy to approve their bonuses. Judge said no. What are the grounds for allowing these bonuses for Hostess execs to be approved?

The grounds are: That's how today's hedge fund/vulture capital model works. Extract profit and bonuses at the expense of all else


So the private equity fund that purchase Hostess is a vulture capital fund? The PE Fund run by Tim Collins?
 
2012-11-29 02:52:57 PM

whistleridge: The judge can only rule if it's legal or not, not how vile or wrong it may be.


Not entire, a BK judge has some powers that a regular Judge doesn't, and has some duties to ensure that creditor's rights are protected and that management feees of a company in re-organization or liquidation are "reasonable". Especially in the case of a liquidation, the goal is create the maximum distribution to the creditors after liquidation
 
2012-11-29 02:53:20 PM

tricycleracer: If I invested there, I'd worry that my handling fees were too high if you're paying 22 year olds a half-mil a year to set a blue-chip fund on cruise control.


Which is why you would invest elsewhere I suppose.
 
2012-11-29 02:54:09 PM
Well, as long as the union employees can get curb-stomped into submission.
 
2012-11-29 02:54:24 PM

unlikely: I am constantly amazed that there hasn't been a torches-and-pitchforks uprising yet.


Forget a torches and pitchforks mob. I am shocked that not even a single person has sneaked into any of these vulture CEOs houses and shot them in the head. I keep on waiting and waiting but it never happens. Though if I think if ever did happen it would be one of those shots heard around the world and there would copycats all over the place.
 
2012-11-29 02:54:26 PM

doyner: sammyk: I am starting to wonder if I will see a guillotine in action in my life time.

If you're over 25 you already have.

The method, already under intense criticism from opponents of capital punishment, drew more fire following Djandoubi's execution, when a doctor in attendance testified that Djandoubi remained responsive for up to 30 seconds after decapitation.

 

What do you suppose this means? His limbs were twitching or, his body-less head, was rolling around, barking "FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!"
 
2012-11-29 02:54:27 PM

chrisco123: skullkrusher

no you don't, brah

yes I do, brah


no, seriously, you don't have 22 year old kids with bachelor's degrees working as junior traders expecting $400k bonuses on a trading desk. It's just not true.
 
2012-11-29 02:54:27 PM
if you work without a contract you are a fool.

/is an at will employed fool
 
2012-11-29 02:54:54 PM

snocone: Grand_Moff_Joseph: raerae1980: That is BS. Borders Execs tried persuading the judge in our bankruptcy to approve their bonuses. Judge said no. What are the grounds for allowing these bonuses for Hostess execs to be approved?

The grounds are: That's how today's hedge fund/vulture capital model works. Extract profit and bonuses at the expense of all else

This is the economic plan you farkers almost voted into the Presidency.
Be proud, be stupid, be partisan!


Google which Fund owned Hostess. Now Google who runs that Fund.
 
2012-11-29 02:55:20 PM

chrisco123: This is $1.8 million. About a hundred grand per executive. It's nothing.

If this union had played ball, they'd all still have jobs. I feel no pity for this (or any other union). Unions lost their relevance 200 years ago.


You. You are what's wrong with this country.
 
Ehh
2012-11-29 02:55:30 PM

Hrist: If it goes through, I hope there's some good old fashioned union justice enacted.


Yeah, how is it that the wingnuts can't say "union" without "thug," and yet the dingdongs asking for those bonuses have working kneecaps?
 
2012-11-29 02:55:46 PM

skullkrusher: payment to handle operations during liquidation. Sinking ship still needs first mates. Those first mates need a reason to stick around. This isn't hard.


So those first mates will go down with the ship, and even if they survive, won't be put in as captains of other-...

Oh, wait, no, they'll be totally fine.
 
2012-11-29 02:55:48 PM

minoridiot: The suitors now include at least five national retailers such as supermarkets, a financial adviser for the company said in bankruptcy court.

I wonder if Walmart will try to purchase the brand.


I think they are all going to be Bimbos now....
 
2012-11-29 02:55:50 PM
So in all serious, there is some (small) general defense of this, as I started to realize as I became a higher-level exec myself.

Being at the helm of a failing company or project is no fun. There's a pretty huge risk involved: mainly, that if you get associated and blamed for the failure, even if the disaster pre-dated you, your next job search is not very likely to result in a position anywhere close to the same level as what you had, which can permanently derail what would have been a stellar career trajectory. (Unless you're one of those near-celebrity CEOs who's so well-networked you never get blamed for anything.)

In order to be persuaded to try and turn the Titanic around, and to use bold (but perhaps risky) moves to do it, most want some kind of major incentive or guarantee. Either in the form of a substantial pay hike -- perhaps high enough to ensure you never need to work again for awhile if it really comes to that -- or some kind of golden parachute contract that ensures they still get something if the company goes belly-up. If they weren't to offer such things, no one would ever sign up to try saving these companies. It's generally a miserable experience, and the career risk is too high.

That being said, there are limits to taste. This particular example is pretty repugnant. When your chief issue is labor negotiations, rather than some kind of other systemic, market, or operational problem, you don't demand a pay hike after you take the job and during your discussions. That just makes you a giant dick, and a remarkably poor negotiator who should be terminated for what are arguably direct performance reasons.
 
2012-11-29 02:55:50 PM

chrisco123: We have junior traders on our desk, all of 22 years-old, who will be seriously pissed if they don't get a $400K bonus. $100K for an executive is a pittance.


No. It is not "a pittance" to anyone, living anywhere in the country, doing any job, with any level of education.

If you think $100K is "a pittance," than you are clearly one of the inept and out-of-touch plutocrats that caused the financial crisis that created our current recession, and all of our fiscal re-balancing SHOULD be done via increases in your taxation. You've earned it.

Also, anyone who thinks $100K is "a pittance" (like, oh, say Mitt Romney) shouldn't be allowed within 1,000 miles of a government appropriations decision. You clearly know NOTHING about the value of a dollar to the average American.
 
2012-11-29 02:55:57 PM
How about instead of paying them bonuses to keep them working while the ship is sinking, we do what the cell phone companies do and tack on a ridiculous "early termination" fee if they quit?
 
2012-11-29 02:56:03 PM
tricycleracer

If I invested there, I'd worry that my handling fees were too high if you're paying 22 year olds a half-mil a year to set a blue-chip fund on cruise control.

I don't know you and I mean no offence, but you are not the type of "investor" for whom they are trading.
 
2012-11-29 02:56:07 PM
Really? what a farking crock of shiat. There should be no bonuses for those who drove Hostess into the ground.
 
2012-11-29 02:57:09 PM
HAHAHAHA the jealousy in this thread is awsome
 
2012-11-29 02:58:09 PM

Weaver95: And remember - this is ALL the union's fault!


Well, here's the union's golden opportunity to expose how incompetent and venal these scum-sucking managers are: invest the pension funds in buying the rights to produce the Hostess brands, and then show the world how a business should be run.

i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-29 02:58:14 PM

chrisco123: tricycleracer

If I invested there, I'd worry that my handling fees were too high if you're paying 22 year olds a half-mil a year to set a blue-chip fund on cruise control.

I don't know you and I mean no offence, but you are not the type of "investor" for whom they are trading.


What's it with IT workers acting like they are in finance because they happen to work for a company with a trading desk?
 
2012-11-29 02:59:06 PM

Kit Fister: here's what I don't get. This is AMERICA. Why were these companies not raking in money hand over fist for selling processed sugars packaged with food-like synthetic chemical compounds designed to mimic the taste and texture of frosting, cream filling, and cake? WE'RE A NATION OF FAT PEOPLE!


Because they had competition making the same kind of stuff cheaper.

WE'RE A NATION OF FAT CHEAP PEOPLE
 
2012-11-29 02:59:53 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: A lot of people are going to say, 'Sure Fark_Guy_Rob - but we're talking about BONUSES here! Not pay-checks' and I can sort of appreciate that. The thing is, when you reach a certain level or work in certain fields, compensation is largely bonus driven.


I think we found the problem.

So the solution is to actually pay people in SALARY - you know, the kind taxed at variable rates depending on the size of the pile at year's end - rather than in options or stocks - "things" which aren't currency, and so are taxed at only 15% (assuming they're held longer than a year). Perhaps this remunerative scheme for avoiding paying their fair share of taxes shouldn't be encouraged, and denying these greedy pricks (and the others like them) bonuses is a good way to get that abusive-to-the-system practice stopped.

That said, they're working for a failing company - if there's no money to pay into the pensions or to pay workers, why the hell should there be any money for "retention bonuses" at all? Both of those terms, to me, are less important than "Paying the salaries and pensions of people who have never seen $125k in a month, ever". That's not fair? YOU WORK AT A FAILING COMPANY. THE TIME FOR "FAIR" PASSED WHEN YOUR SURVIVABILITY INDEX HIT '0'.
 
2012-11-29 03:00:17 PM

Thunderpipes: Good.

Those Hostess employees brought about the companies' collapse. They deserve dirt in their eye.

Exec bonuses tied to how well they handle the liquidation. Sounds reasonable.

Unions suck.


Based on reading your contributions to fark over the years, I'm going to guess you don;t have an MBA and don't work in the executive suite of the company that prints your paycheck. As such, you qualify as the sort of "useful idiot" corporate execs and the GOP counts on to vote against their own self-interest.

50 years ago the average, fully-loaded wage in this country would be about $50/hr. I'm willing to bet you don't make anything close to that now. Hell, I barely beat the average, and I have a law degree. Want to know what changed the most dramatically between then and now?

Union Membership.
 
2012-11-29 03:00:20 PM

Joe Blowme: HAHAHAHA the jealousy in this thread is awsome


There's no shame in being jealous of people earning $1.8 mil to mismanage a company. shiat, I'd do it for half that.
 
2012-11-29 03:00:44 PM

Felgraf: skullkrusher: payment to handle operations during liquidation. Sinking ship still needs first mates. Those first mates need a reason to stick around. This isn't hard.

So those first mates will go down with the ship, and even if they survive, won't be put in as captains of other-...

Oh, wait, no, they'll be totally fine.


It's a wonder we have business in this country at all with all these incompetents just getting shuffled around eh?
 
2012-11-29 03:00:51 PM
skullkrusher

no, seriously, you don't have 22 year old kids with bachelor's degrees working as junior traders expecting $400k bonuses on a trading desk. It's just not true.

It's totally true. The bonus is in addition to a roughly $80,000 salary that would not allow them to even live within 50 miles of the office. Sometimes its smaller, sometimes its bigger but this year its $400K.
 
2012-11-29 03:01:04 PM

doyner: sammyk: I am starting to wonder if I will see a guillotine in action in my life time.

If you're over 25 you already have.


35, not 25. Feel old yet?
 
2012-11-29 03:01:45 PM

jjorsett: Weaver95: And remember - this is ALL the union's fault!

Well, here's the union's golden opportunity to expose how incompetent and venal these scum-sucking managers are: invest the pension funds in buying the rights to produce the Hostess brands, and then show the world how a business should be run.

[i48.tinypic.com image 300x298]


no no no, the worker's collectives must be organized at gunpoint. Getting like minded individuals together and starting a worker owned company just won't do.
 
2012-11-29 03:01:51 PM

Elroydb: $1.8 million split between what nineteen people in top management for a company that takes in nearly $3 billion in revenues? Many of these execs only make $1 salary and rely on bonuses and stock options for payment. Obviously it was the $1.8 million in bonuses and not the $700 million a year being paid out to retired people for pension and health benefits. That is $700 million in costs to people who are no longer producing for your company. On top of that you gotta pay all the bills as well as salary. I guess if they gave that money back they could write a check to all the employees for $100.


except that you fail to see this is a BONUS on top of their regular salary. They even mention that the head guy is pulling down 125k a month. So that 1.8Million is split bonus money, and who wants to bet that the majority of that bonus money goes to 2 or 3 people and not split evenly between the 19. So while some CEOs do they $1 salary PR move these guys certainly did not.
 
2012-11-29 03:01:53 PM

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: 1. There are no qualified executives at Hostess. This is well-established.


No, that's just the current witty remark of the day. The company going under is not necessarily indicative of all the executives performances within that company

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: 2. You don't need huge bonuses to retain executives. There is what is called 'salary'.


Which is also offered by other companies. Companies not in bankruptcy.

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: 3. You don't need former executives to liquidate a company.


I seriously doubt the bakers or teamsters have the skill set necessary to liquidate a companies assets.
 
2012-11-29 03:03:08 PM

chrisco123: tricycleracer

They're not analysts. They're junior traders. While the analyst bonuses have cratered in the past five years, it has not been the case with traders. These guys' bosses get at least seven figures as a bonus.


And that's kind of the point: financial services workers make this kind of money by simply MOVING large amounts of money in order to create the illusion of wealth.

Wall Street produces nothing. They simply act as a middleman between business and capital.

People should move their money to a local credit union, and not allow these parasites to skim off the top.
 
2012-11-29 03:03:14 PM

chrisco123: skullkrusher

no, seriously, you don't have 22 year old kids with bachelor's degrees working as junior traders expecting $400k bonuses on a trading desk. It's just not true.

It's totally true. The bonus is in addition to a roughly $80,000 salary that would not allow them to even live within 50 miles of the office. Sometimes its smaller, sometimes its bigger but this year its $400K.


where? You don't have to give an actual name but what business? Hedge fund, bank, what?

I know Wharton grads busting their asses in M&A at major i-banks who didn't start making that sort of money until their late 20s
 
2012-11-29 03:03:26 PM

Click Click D'oh: Uh... the bonuses are to retain management members who will be involved in the liquidation process, and who would likely jump ship otherwise. Farkers do realize that qualified executives would flee Hostess without retention bonuses right? Well, that actually could explain a lot around Fark if the average Farker would stay with a dieing company instead of seeking alternative employment...


and nothing in those bonuses requires them to stay. it's just HOPED that they will, and given their track record i see no evidence that ANY of those executives could perform the not-to-difficult task of shutting the company down and selling off its assets any more ably than a court-appointed reciever would.
 
2012-11-29 03:05:16 PM

Magorn: Click Click D'oh: Uh... the bonuses are to retain management members who will be involved in the liquidation process, and who would likely jump ship otherwise. Farkers do realize that qualified executives would flee Hostess without retention bonuses right? Well, that actually could explain a lot around Fark if the average Farker would stay with a dieing company instead of seeking alternative employment...

and nothing in those bonuses requires them to stay. it's just HOPED that they will, and given their track record i see no evidence that ANY of those executives could perform the not-to-difficult task of shutting the company down and selling off its assets any more ably than a court-appointed reciever would.



Probably contingent on staying till the end. That you could definitely write into a contract.
 
2012-11-29 03:05:51 PM

udhq: People should move their money to a local credit union, and not allow these parasites to skim off the top.


grow up
 
2012-11-29 03:06:19 PM

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Ah, this thread again. People still not understanding employment contracts.


Ah this idiot again. A person not understanding what going into bankruptcy does to ALL a company's contracts, including employment ones for senior execs. Also not understand that these are not contractually required bonuses but EXTRA money the company wants to give these people to incentivize them not to quit, because of the mythical harm that would supposedly do the company
 
2012-11-29 03:06:42 PM

fickenchucker: That's just stupid.

But place yourself in those striking employees' shoes. I cannot for the life of me figure out why they would strike and become jobless at the end. I would vote to keep working and look for another job with at least something coming in. Unemployment can't be as much as the reduced pay rate, can it?


I saw a few of them say they thought the company was bluffing. Question - how much are the union bosses getting paid? They still have jobs with the union right? Why no blame on them?
 
2012-11-29 03:06:59 PM
Most people who get paid by the hour have no understanding of how things work in the executive world. All they see are a handful of dudes in suits making bank and gosh darn it that's not fair!
 
2012-11-29 03:07:01 PM

Moopy Mac: snocone: Grand_Moff_Joseph: raerae1980: That is BS. Borders Execs tried persuading the judge in our bankruptcy to approve their bonuses. Judge said no. What are the grounds for allowing these bonuses for Hostess execs to be approved?

The grounds are: That's how today's hedge fund/vulture capital model works. Extract profit and bonuses at the expense of all else

This is the economic plan you farkers almost voted into the Presidency.
Be proud, be stupid, be partisan!

Google which Fund owned Hostess. Now Google who runs that Fund.


Thanks, Dr Feelgood, knowing both choices are chit is so comforting.
I was just farking the group that was so proud of this business plan, they made it a party platform.
 
2012-11-29 03:07:59 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: Most people who get paid by the hour have no understanding of how things work in the executive world. All they see are a handful of dudes in suits making bank and gosh darn it that's not fair!


exactly
 
2012-11-29 03:08:04 PM

raerae1980: That is BS. Borders Execs tried persuading the judge in our bankruptcy to approve their bonuses. Judge said no. What are the grounds for allowing these bonuses for Hostess execs to be approved?


They're GOP contributors.
 
2012-11-29 03:09:03 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: was that directed at someone or the article, or perhaps the clouds?


all the whiners in the thread and maybe the one cloud
 
2012-11-29 03:09:13 PM
That's a big Twinkie
 
2012-11-29 03:09:27 PM
skullkrusher

Hedge fund. London. I just spoke to one...He's 23 in January.
 
2012-11-29 03:10:10 PM

snocone: Moopy Mac: snocone: Grand_Moff_Joseph: raerae1980: That is BS. Borders Execs tried persuading the judge in our bankruptcy to approve their bonuses. Judge said no. What are the grounds for allowing these bonuses for Hostess execs to be approved?

The grounds are: That's how today's hedge fund/vulture capital model works. Extract profit and bonuses at the expense of all else

This is the economic plan you farkers almost voted into the Presidency.
Be proud, be stupid, be partisan!

Google which Fund owned Hostess. Now Google who runs that Fund.

Thanks, Dr Feelgood, knowing both choices are chit is so comforting.
I was just farking the group that was so proud of this business plan, they made it a party platform.


The point is that not all PE Funds operate the same. And Ripplewood is not known as a vulture fund in the industry.
 
2012-11-29 03:10:25 PM

chrisco123: skullkrusher

Hedge fund. London. I just spoke to one...He's 23 in January.


well good for those mofos
 
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