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(Pop Matters)   The hidden demonology of Dora the Explorer, Exposed   (popmatters.com) divider line 256
    More: Scary, Swiper, Nick Jr., talking animals, European culture, dark ages, collective consciousness, British Library  
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26566 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Nov 2012 at 1:32 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-29 04:09:59 PM
Several years ago, my parents bought one of the granddaughters a pink plastic battery-driven Dora the Explorer "Rainforest Rescue" all-terrain vehicle, probabaly from Walmart. I felt that gift sort of sent a mixed message.
 
2012-11-29 04:10:08 PM
My oldest is 26, my youngest 9. Just the name Dora will have that blasted map song in my head!! But don't get me started on the impossibility of EVER getting the Wiggles to leave....
 
2012-11-29 04:10:18 PM

FitzShivering: Pretty easy to pick out who didn't read the article. There's no herp-a-derp fundy stuff in there. It's actually halfway interesting, and the author even admits it may not be conscious intent to do anything with "demons." Not seeing any, "OMG DORA IS CAVORTING WITH DEMONS MAKE UR CHILDREN STOP"


While what you say is absolutely true, and in the end the point is "be nice and forgive everybody", the author did a pretty good job of burying his lead, and the headline didn't help. Of course, that alone should have tipped people off. Or maybe people haven't read enough real "herp-a-derp fundy stuff". Those kind of articles generally start with their alarmist crazy proposition and then go to the crazy supporting points. If this were that kind of article it would have been more like:
"Children's show "Dora" during is teaching toddlers to cavort with demons. 1. Dora practices magic incantations by..." etc. etc.
 
2012-11-29 04:13:16 PM

ChipNASA: What about this??

[wizard.gamebanana.com image 186x186] 

[i405.photobucket.com image 300x220]  

[images.wehaslinks.com image 320x200]


You people used to get a complimentary vacation for posting those...
 
2012-11-29 04:15:00 PM

omelete: // Find myself humming "I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the MAP!" more that I'd like


Every episode of dora ends the same way at our house:

Dora: What was you favorite part?
Me: When Boots bit the heads off the baby birds and we called Tico a wetback.
Dora: I liked that too.
 
2012-11-29 04:16:51 PM

Flab: ChipNASA: What about this??

[wizard.gamebanana.com image 186x186] 

[i405.photobucket.com image 300x220]  

[images.wehaslinks.com image 320x200]

You know people used to get a complimentary vacation for posting those...


/FTFM.
 
2012-11-29 04:17:10 PM

megarian: Calliou and Max and Ruby make watching Dora a cakewalk.

/Yo Gabba Gabba has awesome musical guests.


The wife just bought tickets to their live show here in Atlanta, which should be crazy.
 
2012-11-29 04:18:10 PM
Elmer Fudd used to blast Daffy's duckbill right off his head at point blank range with a (sawed-off?) shotgun when I was a kid. So far it has only resulted in two mass-murder sprees by yours truly. I'd say the collateral damage is well within the acceptable limits.
 
2012-11-29 04:18:33 PM

Raug the Dwarf: kid_icarus: TFA so much reminds me of this...

[i76.photobucket.com image 300x300]


/anyone else have their childhood ruined by this garbage?

Holy Crap, man. My parents lived by that shiat when I was a kid. I'll see you that one and raise you a...

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]


I don't remember exactly, but our church showed some video similar to that that "exposed" the demonic reality of rock n' roll. The video, being a bit outdated (much like the middle-aged church people screening it) featured heavy metal from the 80s (we were into the 90s by this point).
 
2012-11-29 04:21:35 PM

QueenMamaBee: omelete: // Find myself humming "I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the MAP!" more that I'd like

I'm always yelling "WE GET IT, YOU'RE THE MAP, SHUT THE FARK UP!"


"Who do we ask for help when we don't know which way to go?"
"Google!"
 
2012-11-29 04:22:22 PM

mikerott: Elmer Fudd used to blast Daffy's duckbill right off his head at point blank range with a (sawed-off?) shotgun when I was a kid. So far it has only resulted in two mass-murder sprees by yours truly. I'd say the collateral damage is well within the acceptable limits.


Let's not forget the epidemic of kids injured and killed when their siblings dropped anvils on them.
 
2012-11-29 04:26:41 PM

kid_icarus: Raug the Dwarf: kid_icarus: TFA so much reminds me of this...

[i76.photobucket.com image 300x300]


/anyone else have their childhood ruined by this garbage?

Holy Crap, man. My parents lived by that shiat when I was a kid. I'll see you that one and raise you a...

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

I don't remember exactly, but our church showed some video similar to that that "exposed" the demonic reality of rock n' roll. The video, being a bit outdated (much like the middle-aged church people screening it) featured heavy metal from the 80s (we were into the 90s by this point).


I bet it was the same one. That video, they drug out some of the most inane, underground crap and said "Look how evil it is!!!" Then pointed to crap like Prince and Whitney Houston and said, "Look they're using sex to sell records...that's evil too!"

I mean, have you ever really heard or listened to Diamanda Galas, Nina Hagen, Spooky Tooth, Ludichrist, Celtic Frost, or Christian Death? (the latter few painfully obviously formed to give morons like that a heart attack anyway)

Granted, they still had classics like AC/DC, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Venom, etc. too, but come on.
I used to watch the video for the soundtrack. Is that bad?
 
2012-11-29 04:28:49 PM

Kittypie070: A cat! Like Jess!" (Guess with Jess)
"A walrus! Like Octonauts!"

I have failed.

Um.....maybe some TV sabotage is what's needed.

Seriously, I'm not kidding.

KILL that thing as fast as you can.

Lock it out with the remote, cut the wire, anything at all but do something.

That's.....ugly :(


Believe it or not we only turn on Treehouse for an hour in the mornings while we get ready to go to work/daycare, and occasionally a half hour before bath. The kid has a freakish memory.
 
2012-11-29 04:36:39 PM

jonny_q: Flakeloaf: When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a strawman for the ficitious bogeyman you've invented.

When all you can think about is religion-hating, everything looks like a religious rant even if it's not intended that way.


The argument asserts the correctness of Christian dogma, presumes the existence of demons, then declares a Dora character to be representative of the tradition in which demons have historically been portrayed in works of mythology. A disbelief in demons reduces the article to "In the history of human storytelling, there have been many bad guys. Swiper is one of them."
 
2012-11-29 04:37:21 PM

jayhawk88: roc6783: ***snip***

Wait until you're exposed to the likes of Max and Ruby or Caillou, though.*shudder*


My wife was a nanny for 3 kids before we decided to have our own, and the one she couldn't stand was Wonderpets.

//Also, from the DVDs that the kids she watched, I found out that George Carlin narrated the Thomas the Train shows. Confused the hell out of me when I was at their house while it was playing in the background. I did one of those, "Is that...no...but it really sound like him...no it can't be...yep, it totally is him."
 
2012-11-29 04:44:53 PM

kid_icarus: TFA so much reminds me of this...

[i76.photobucket.com image 300x300]


/anyone else have their childhood ruined by this garbage?


Holy sh*t I haven't seen that in so long. Memories flooding back...

/ Stupid born again parents
 
2012-11-29 04:46:18 PM
Today I learned where the phrase "Swiper no swiping!" came from.

/ My kid was too old to watch Dora.
// I sure know a helluva lot about Pokemon, though.
 
2012-11-29 04:46:40 PM

roc6783: jayhawk88: roc6783: ***snip***

Wait until you're exposed to the likes of Max and Ruby or Caillou, though.*shudder*

My wife was a nanny for 3 kids before we decided to have our own, and the one she couldn't stand was Wonderpets.

//Also, from the DVDs that the kids she watched, I found out that George Carlin narrated the Thomas the Train shows. Confused the hell out of me when I was at their house while it was playing in the background. I did one of those, "Is that...no...but it really sound like him...no it can't be...yep, it totally is him."


Eh, to each their own. When my kids were that age, "Wonderpets" was my favorite amongst the shows of that ilk.
 
2012-11-29 04:47:17 PM
For those that didn't read the article, it was a fairly light-hearted exploration of the mythological background of the demonic or trickster fox character, and speculations on the morality presented in the show.

I thought it was, like many such explorations, taking things a bit too deep. But it was still entertaining and thoughtful. If you couldn't make it to the end, the author's ending point was that in Dora the Explorer, even the archetypal "bad" characters get a second chance and are seen somewhat sympathetically. He compares this to the early christianity taught by Origen and the biblical imperative of loving even one's enemies, and points out that modern christians might make a better world and a better life if they took those simple morals more seriously.

It wasn't some clueless fundie screaming about demons and claiming that kids' shows and pop culture are going to put our children on a path to hell.

The comments, however, are comedy gold, a heady mix of arrogance and idiocy. About a third of them are the clueless and paranoid christians who didn't even understand the author's point, but go on bashing kids' shows and pop culture and Disney, and generally make a laughingstock out of themselves and their fellow christians. Another third or so are arrogant smart asses who ALSO didn't read the article, and assume it really was about kids' shows being evil (much like many of you farkers).

I thought it was a fun read with a good message...which of course on the internet, means it's just more fodder to be thoughtlessly mocked by clueless dumbasses of all kinds and beliefs, who can't even be bothered to read for five minutes before they open their idiot-holes.
 
2012-11-29 04:47:24 PM

Flakeloaf: jonny_q: Flakeloaf: When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a strawman for the ficitious bogeyman you've invented.

When all you can think about is religion-hating, everything looks like a religious rant even if it's not intended that way.

The argument asserts the correctness of Christian dogma, presumes the existence of demons, then declares a Dora character to be representative of the tradition in which demons have historically been portrayed in works of mythology. A disbelief in demons reduces the article to "In the history of human storytelling, there have been many bad guys. Swiper is one of them."


"In the history of human storytelling, foxes have been pricks."
 
2012-11-29 04:49:09 PM
 
2012-11-29 04:54:58 PM
it doesn't even rhyme
 
2012-11-29 04:59:50 PM

bubo_sibiricus: jonny_q: When all you can think about is religion-hating, everything looks like a religious rant even if it's not intended that way.

This. I'm a militant teapot spotter, and this article was worth reading. It's not a fundie rant. Indeed, I think it could be used to troll fundies. The only trollicious thing about it is the title. But then the point of a title is to get people to read the article.

Guys, If you're offended by this article, read it again, slower this time.


The comments were my favorite part.....much like the comments here, there was just so much cluelessness, from both the christians and the chrisitian bashers.

/Atheist. Thought the article was kind of cool, and wouldn't mind if more christians (and non-christians) were as thoughtful as the writer.
 
2012-11-29 05:02:48 PM

rufus-t-firefly: this deceptive nature made the fox a logical form for the devil to take on earth. In fact, for medieval Europeans, the fox was a common symbol for the devil himself.

So, Fox News is both deceptive and demonic.


Did you steal that from the comments at the article, or was that you trolling?
 
2012-11-29 05:03:46 PM

roc6783: jayhawk88: roc6783: ***snip***

Wait until you're exposed to the likes of Max and Ruby or Caillou, though.*shudder*

My wife was a nanny for 3 kids before we decided to have our own, and the one she couldn't stand was Wonderpets.

//Also, from the DVDs that the kids she watched, I found out that George Carlin narrated the Thomas the Train shows. Confused the hell out of me when I was at their house while it was playing in the background. I did one of those, "Is that...no...but it really sound like him...no it can't be...yep, it totally is him."


He even referenced it in a bit on one of his albums.

Something about how kids suck or aren't special, and he topped it with "And I'm Mr. Conductor. I should know".
 
2012-11-29 05:07:07 PM

dr.zaeus: megarian: Calliou and Max and Ruby make watching Dora a cakewalk.

/Yo Gabba Gabba has awesome musical guests.

The wife just bought tickets to their live show here in Atlanta, which should be crazy.


I've been to more than my share of rock concerts... I'd definitely be down for a Yo Gabba Gabba mosh pit.
 
2012-11-29 05:08:32 PM

Raug the Dwarf: kid_icarus: TFA so much reminds me of this...

[i76.photobucket.com image 300x300]


/anyone else have their childhood ruined by this garbage?

Holy Crap, man. My parents lived by that shiat when I was a kid. I'll see you that one and raise you a...

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]


My condolences. Did they ever become sane?

I have cool parents who are still sane. But my best friend's mom wouldn't let him come over any more after she found out I had a Parker Bros Ouija board. Although she still let me spend the weekend at their place, where we went to church on Sunday. Lol, I wonder if she realizes how much help she provided on my journey to non-belief.
 
2012-11-29 05:12:54 PM
gallery.burrowowl.net
 
2012-11-29 05:14:02 PM
Put me on the list that would like to make Caillou watch me disembowel both of his parents before setting him on fire.
 
2012-11-29 05:16:34 PM

Civchic: roc6783: ***snip***

We were reading a book about zoos last night at bedtime and this was his narrative:

"A giraffe! Like Nessa!" (Big Big Friend)
"A horse! Like Galahad!" (Mike the Knight)
"A monkey! Like Boots!"
"A cat! Like Jess!" (Guess with Jess)
"A walrus! Like Octonauts!"

I have failed.


Haha, my only saving grace is that baseball and football can hold her attention for about 5 minutes, but she won't watch anything longer than 30 seconds. I am hoping that I can just keep working on the sports and minimize the other stuff.
 
2012-11-29 05:23:27 PM

Gleeman: To me, a professor and scholar of the history of Christianity

[i.imgur.com image 504x298]


Yeah, let's not group "Christian History" along with the likes of sociology, psychology and actual world history, k?

/A liberal education still provides better opportunities than a fundamentalist christian education.
//Liberal arts major; happily employed.
 
2012-11-29 05:27:14 PM

johnnyq: roc6783: jayhawk88: roc6783: ***snip***

Wait until you're exposed to the likes of Max and Ruby or Caillou, though.*shudder*

My wife was a nanny for 3 kids before we decided to have our own, and the one she couldn't stand was Wonderpets.

//Also, from the DVDs that the kids she watched, I found out that George Carlin narrated the Thomas the Train shows. Confused the hell out of me when I was at their house while it was playing in the background. I did one of those, "Is that...no...but it really sound like him...no it can't be...yep, it totally is him."

Eh, to each their own. When my kids were that age, "Wonderpets" was my favorite amongst the shows of that ilk.


Yes, I loved Wonderpets. Then my daughter moved on to Phineas and Ferb, which I liked even more. But now she's almost 10 and hooked on "Jessie." Oh well.
 
2012-11-29 05:28:22 PM

Raug the Dwarf:

I mean, have you ever really heard or listened to Diamanda Galas, Nina Hagen, Spooky Tooth, Ludichrist, Celtic Frost, or Christian Death? (the latter few painfully obviously formed to give morons like that a heart attack anyway)


Yes. Celtic Frost, in particular, is classic, canonical extreme/progressive metal. At least as influential as Venom, musically, if not (pop-)culturally....
 
2012-11-29 05:30:17 PM

jayhawk88: Wait until you're exposed to the likes of Max and Ruby or Caillou, though.*shudder*


Max and Ruby is horrid. Ruby treats little brother Max like he's mentaly challenged, but he saves her biatchy ass episode after episode. And she's bossy and pretentous.

For mindlessness, I like Wow Wow Wubzy. I totally hate Yo Gabba Gabba. The catchy tunes from The Fresh Beat Band are impossible to dislodge no matter how much Tequilla I drink.

/have a 3-yo granddaughter who likes Dora.
 
2012-11-29 05:32:30 PM

The Muthaship: Put me on the list that would like to make Caillou watch me disembowel both of his parents before setting him on fire.


^^This this-ity this this ^^

Mrs Mauled is a nanny, and she would gladly supply the gasoline.

also

Where are we going?? *clap* *clap* *clap*

TO GO SAVE BOOTS
 
2012-11-29 05:33:20 PM

Dee Snarl: Raug the Dwarf:

I mean, have you ever really heard or listened to Diamanda Galas, Nina Hagen, Spooky Tooth, Ludichrist, Celtic Frost, or Christian Death? (the latter few painfully obviously formed to give morons like that a heart attack anyway)


Yes. Celtic Frost, in particular, is classic, canonical extreme/progressive metal. At least as influential as Venom, musically, if not (pop-)culturally....


I'm sure. But the point was they didn't have a big following. The guys in the video had to dig deep to find the most outrageous stuff they could find.
 
2012-11-29 05:35:12 PM

Eshman: Gleeman: To me, a professor and scholar of the history of Christianity

[i.imgur.com image 504x298]

Yeah, let's not group "Christian History" along with the likes of sociology, psychology and actual world history, k?

/A liberal education still provides better opportunities than a fundamentalist christian education.
//Liberal arts major; happily employed.


Which the author of the article doesn't have. Which you would know if you could, like, read.
 
2012-11-29 05:42:49 PM

Raug the Dwarf: kid_icarus: Raug the Dwarf: kid_icarus: TFA so much reminds me of this...

[i76.photobucket.com image 300x300]


/anyone else have their childhood ruined by this garbage?

Holy Crap, man. My parents lived by that shiat when I was a kid. I'll see you that one and raise you a...

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

I don't remember exactly, but our church showed some video similar to that that "exposed" the demonic reality of rock n' roll. The video, being a bit outdated (much like the middle-aged church people screening it) featured heavy metal from the 80s (we were into the 90s by this point).

I bet it was the same one. That video, they drug out some of the most inane, underground crap and said "Look how evil it is!!!" Then pointed to crap like Prince and Whitney Houston and said, "Look they're using sex to sell records...that's evil too!"

I mean, have you ever really heard or listened to Diamanda Galas, Nina Hagen, Spooky Tooth, Ludichrist, Celtic Frost, or Christian Death? (the latter few painfully obviously formed to give morons like that a heart attack anyway)

Granted, they still had classics like AC/DC, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Venom, etc. too, but come on.
I used to watch the video for the soundtrack. Is that bad?


Since the only church I ever went to was a fairly low-budget affair, I was spared all the crappy videos. Praise Jesus! But the Sunday School used these color-newsprint handouts with bible lessons, quizzes, and christian "news" stories....the one I remember best was called "Rock Candy!" and was all about the evils of rock n' roll...before "metal" was even a big deal. It was all about rumors about the Rolling Stones and their album titles, Black Sabbath (who always had christian messages, ironically enough), and blamed The Who for getting 11 people trampled in Cincinnati. Of course, being an upstanding protestant American publication, the rock musicians and devil music are to blame, but there was no mention of the carelessness and greed of promoters over-filling the stadium and not providing adequate security. It must be that debbil music!

The irony was that as soon as I got out of church, I was going to go home, put The Who or some Sabbath on my walkman, and mow our gigantic lawn for two hours. I was not amused at the christian shenanigans, and the Sunday school teacher ( a huge Beatles and CCR fan) kind of soft-pedaled the message. I think he could tell I wouldn't be staying around too long. Ah, good times dabbling in the crazy.
 
2012-11-29 05:48:14 PM

Eshman: Gleeman: To me, a professor and scholar of the history of Christianity

[i.imgur.com image 504x298]

Yeah, let's not group "Christian History" along with the likes of sociology, psychology and actual world history, k?

/A liberal education still provides better opportunities than a fundamentalist christian education.
//Liberal arts major; happily employed.


Hey, now! Building plaster dinosaurs, mopping the floor, and selling admission tickets at the creation museum is in fact a VERY satisfying and rewarding career. Mainly because I'm skimming the till, but it's still satisfying!
 
2012-11-29 05:54:47 PM
I'd love to know what our author would think of this episode:

i45.tinypic.com

That relationship Hippo and Oxpecker have going is highly questionable. Plus, I think that Hippo is performing some sort of ritual when he crams his ass into a giant sewer pipe. 

/Caught this by total accident and couldn't stop watching.
 
2012-11-29 06:04:20 PM
"To me, a professor and scholar of the history of Christianity, I saw this problem-solving strategy of dealing with Swiper within a larger, historical contest."

Self-horn tooting leads to blindness, which explains this sentence.

"Then, perhaps, we adults may all learn from our children to do the same to our foes, whether we conceive of perceive them as demonic or not." (Still very awkward)

Self described scholar sullies simple syntax.

/as soon as somebody tells me they're smart, I know they're not.
 
2012-11-29 06:05:20 PM
 
2012-11-29 06:06:54 PM
"I know someone who specialized in covert artifact recovery"

"a thief"

"she prefers the term, explorer"
 
2012-11-29 06:31:11 PM

big pig peaches: I like how Caillou's parents shoot him down all the time. More realistic than most kid's shows. He always listens the first time though. I'd like to see him get a time out.


Oh yeah.
 
2012-11-29 06:36:47 PM

scottydoesntknow: CSB:


That was a damn fine thing you did there - in case you didn't know.
 
2012-11-29 07:13:34 PM

Raug the Dwarf: kid_icarus: Raug the Dwarf: kid_icarus: TFA so much reminds me of this...

[i76.photobucket.com image 300x300]


/anyone else have their childhood ruined by this garbage?

Holy Crap, man. My parents lived by that shiat when I was a kid. I'll see you that one and raise you a...

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

I don't remember exactly, but our church showed some video similar to that that "exposed" the demonic reality of rock n' roll. The video, being a bit outdated (much like the middle-aged church people screening it) featured heavy metal from the 80s (we were into the 90s by this point).

I bet it was the same one. That video, they drug out some of the most inane, underground crap and said "Look how evil it is!!!" Then pointed to crap like Prince and Whitney Houston and said, "Look they're using sex to sell records...that's evil too!"

I mean, have you ever really heard or listened to Diamanda Galas, Nina Hagen, Spooky Tooth, Ludichrist, Celtic Frost, or Christian Death? (the latter few painfully obviously formed to give morons like that a heart attack anyway)

Granted, they still had classics like AC/DC, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Venom, etc. too, but come on.
I used to watch the video for the soundtrack. Is that bad?


That's sinful; you're going to hell, dude.
 
2012-11-29 07:21:25 PM

sitesmithscott: [gallery.burrowowl.net image 760x596]


media.steampowered.com

This guy even looks a bit like Swiper...

/glad I'm not the only Oglaf fan here
 
2012-11-29 07:38:49 PM
As someone with three under 6 (2 years apart), most of the shows I have sen mentioned are watchable; personally, I would rather get punched in the balls than watch The Fresh Beat Band. That is about the only show I absolutely refuse to let my kids watch. There are very few other shows for their ages that I can't watch.

However, I have yet to see a show for their cousins on Disney (ages 10-15) that doesn't want me to run screaming from the room. They are God-awful and I will gladly put up with Caillou, Max and Ruby, or any of the Disney Jr offerings before I will watch that crap.
 
2012-11-29 07:48:03 PM

crazyone33: As someone with three under 6 (2 years apart), most of the shows I have sen mentioned are watchable; personally, I would rather get punched in the balls than watch The Fresh Beat Band. That is about the only show I absolutely refuse to let my kids watch. There are very few other shows for their ages that I can't watch.

However, I have yet to see a show for their cousins on Disney (ages 10-15) that doesn't want me to run screaming from the room. They are God-awful and I will gladly put up with Caillou, Max and Ruby, or any of the Disney Jr offerings before I will watch that crap.


I feel your pain...my nephews are in the tween phase, and insist on watching The Suite Life, Wizard of Waverly Place, and a few other similar shows I can't recall the name of off hand. I try to remember that they're kids shows and I probably watched annoying stuff when I was little...but damn, those shows make my brain bleed. What kind of "acting" do you call that?
 
2012-11-29 07:59:28 PM

slayer199: I read the first two paragraphs before I came to the conclusion that TFA has too much time on their hands.


...took you that long, huh?
 
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